Stony Brook eyes the A-10/CAA

[aceinthehole]

Check out this Hartford Courant article about SBU coach Chuck Priore. Here's an excerpt:

"Stony Brook hopes to join another Division I-AA conference for the 2008 season. It would like to join the 12-team Colonial Athletic Association, which will have teams such as UMass, New Hampshire, Richmond, Northeastern and Rhode Island next season.

Priore is confident the university's hopes will be realized.

In the meantime, the focus is Central. That the Seawolves are playing for a Gridiron Classic berth is notable, considering 20 of Priore's 26 scholarship players are freshmen. Four are starters and three other freshmen play significant roles."

http://www.courant.com/sports/college/hc-priore1109.artnov09,0,3631165.story?coll=hc-headlines-sports-college

[BobbyMo]

I wish them Stony Brook all the luck in the world in the future, but really hope CCSU can beat them this weekend. I think most of the NEC fans would agree that Monmouth or Albany would give USD a better game.

Harriston should have a field day running, RMU ran the ball (which they dont do much) well against the Brook and I cant see CCSU having any problems doing so.

[OL FU]

When considering the options or lack of options discussed forever in the SoCon expansion thread and the fact that we debated how many members are too many members, what is the possibility that the CAA with 12 football playing members, is going to expand football from external sources?

[Sly Fox]

Really now, is there any chance the CAA would bring in anybody considering their current status of busting at the seams?

[andy7171]

How could the A-10 add another team? They already have 12. The CAA doesn't have football. Half the teams in the CAA are in the A-10 for football. I applaud Stoney Brook for wanting to upgrade, but I don't see how it works in the two conferences named.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Unless UMass or Richmond gets kicked out, I have an incredibly hard time seeing this happening.

I think the news is that he's talking about the CAA and not an America East conference.

[Uncle Buck]

I couldn't see the A-10/CAA adding a 13th program. What happened to all of the discussion about starting an America East conference for football?

[Catsfan]

I just want to verify my understanding that at least for the 2007 season, the same 12 teams that comprise the A-10 Football Conference will continue on under the new name of the CAA Football Conference. Is that correct?

[Racoogle]

I just want to verify my understanding that at least for the 2007 season, the same 12 teams that comprise the A-10 Football Conference will continue on under the new name of the CAA Football Conference. Is that correct?

Correct.

[GannonFan]

I just want to verify my understanding that at least for the 2007 season, the same 12 teams that comprise the A-10 Football Conference will continue on under the new name of the CAA Football Conference. Is that correct?

Yup, at this point a name change, nothing more.

[Dane96]

Priore is just postulating. They are going nowhere until the CAA either splits...or AE football starts.

[ChickenMan]

I couldn't see the A-10/CAA adding a 13th program. What happened to all of the discussion about starting an America East conference for football?

Old Dominion will be the 13th CAA football member when they come on board... but that is a few years down the road.

[89Hen]

Old Dominion will be the 13th CAA football member when they come on board... but that is a few years down the road.
That would be SB's only chance. IF the CAA were to not split by then, it would make sense to go to 14 with SB joining the North and ODU the South. Until then, there is zero chance of SB joining the CAA unless somebody leaves.

[Dane96]

And from what I have been told, from multiple CAA people...it would be ALbany...and not SBU that would be the choice for the 14th slot.

As we all know however, the CAA with 12 teams is tough enough to get bids because of the ass kickings that decimate the win totals from the in-conference games. No way is 13 going to work...hell no to 14.

I think deep down...we all know there is going to be some sort of split.

This isnt the BCS where a 12 team conference makes beau coup bucks.

[andy7171]

And from what I have been told, from multiple CAA people...it would be ALbany...and not SBU that would be the choice for the 14th slot.

As we all know however, the CAA with 12 teams is tough enough to get bids because of the ass kickings that decimate the win totals from the in-conference games. No way is 13 going to work...hell no to 14.

I think deep down...we all know there is going to be some sort of split.

This isnt the BCS where a 12 team conference makes beau coup bucks.

The 12 team conference is ideal because the schools make money off the conference title game. The BCS, as I understand, has nothing to do with 12 team conference championship games. I think it is possible for a school to lose a title game and still play in a National Championship game.

I think Oklahoma lost to Colorado one year in the Big 12 Champioship but still went on to play for the National title.

The BCS is F'ing BS.

[JMU_Fan_2007]

Georgia State is also considering adding football in the CAA... (http://www2.gsu.edu/~wwwath/general/0602024_FootballStatus.htm) which makes 14 teams without Stony Brook, which is just too big.

An eventual split in the CAA is probably inevitable. Mickey Matthews at JMU is always talking about spliting the A10. The split would probably be CAA teams staying as the CAA football conference, and the other non-CAA schools creating a new conference, possibly adding a few teams in the process. Just for kicks, here's an example of what the conferences might look like in 2010:
CAA:
Old Dominion
Georgia State
James Madison
William and Mary
Delaware
Towson
Northeastern (doesn't make much sense that they would stay with the northern teams when they are a full CAA member.)
Hofstra


New conference:
UMass
New Hampshire
Rhode Island
Maine
Villanova
Richmond (could possibly see them vying to stay with the southern teams.)
Who else?... Stony Brook? Albany?

Seems like a pretty good split to me. Rivalries would be preserved and each school could play their whole conference every year. The real question would be if both leagues could secure an auto-bid to the playoffs, which in my opinion both would be more than deserving of. I'd miss the shot to play UNH and UMass and Maine every few years, but perhaps we'd meet in the playoffs. It'll be interesting to see how each works out.

[lizrdgizrd]

Seems like a pretty good split to me. Rivalries would be preserved and each school could play their whole conference every year. The real question would be if both leagues could secure an auto-bid to the playoffs, which in my opinion both would be more than deserving of. I'd miss the shot to play UNH and UMass and Maine every few years, but perhaps we'd meet in the playoffs. It'll be interesting to see how each works out.
I don't see why the old A-10 schools couldn't schedule some OOC games with those in the other conference.

[Umass74]

Seems like a pretty good split to me. Rivalries would be preserved and each school could play their whole conference every year. The real question would be if both leagues could secure an auto-bid to the playoffs, which in my opinion both would be more than deserving of. I'd miss the shot to play UNH and UMass and Maine every few years, but perhaps we'd meet in the playoffs. It'll be interesting to see how each works out.

One of the off repeated reasons for America East is to "save travel" costs.

Well with seven member leagues, that's six league games and then one "money" I-A game and maybe one "winnable" I-AA game

That means both new leagues will need an additional two games to fill their slate. Who do you think they will end up with? That's right, the northern league will end up playing two of the southern schools and the southern league will be playing two of the northern league schools. It might even three. Not a much change really.

And all that just to make Stony Brook happy?

[mainejeff]

Here we go again.

They are talking about the CAA because AE Football does not exist. That should change, but probably not until 2009.

[mainejeff]

One of the off repeated reasons for America East is to "save travel" costs.

Well with seven member leagues, that's six league games and then one "money" I-A game and maybe one "winnable" I-AA game

That means both new leagues will need an additional two games to fill their slate. Who do you think they will end up with? That's right, the northern league will end up playing two of the southern schools and the southern league will be playing two of the northern league schools. It might even three. Not a much change really.

And all that just to make Stony Brook happy?

AE Football is not going to happen "just to make Stony Brook happy". :rolleyes: There are many other factors involved.

[henfan]

And from what I have been told, from multiple CAA people...it would be ALbany...and not SBU that would be the choice for the 14th slot.

IMO, it's much more possible that Albany or SBU and another existing D-I would become the 13th and 14th all-sport member of the CAA. That wouldn't necessarily result in a 14 team FB league, however. In fact, expansion on the Olympic sport side could result in a mutual pairing down of FB affiliates to a 10 team league. And maybe this is where the America East is finally able to help out...

I just don't think we'll ever see a 14 or even 13 team CAA FB league. It wouldn't make sense from the competitive or scheduling standpoints, at least in the current I-AA environment.

It's going to be interesting.

[BDKJMU]

Georgia State is also considering adding football in the CAA... (http://www2.gsu.edu/~wwwath/general/0602024_FootballStatus.htm) which makes 14 teams without Stony Brook, which is just too big.

An eventual split in the CAA is probably inevitable. Mickey Matthews at JMU is always talking about spliting the A10. The split would probably be CAA teams staying as the CAA football conference, and the other non-CAA schools creating a new conference, possibly adding a few teams in the process. Just for kicks, here's an example of what the conferences might look like in 2010:
CAA:
Old Dominion
Georgia State
James Madison
William and Mary
Delaware
Towson
Northeastern (doesn't make much sense that they would stay with the northern teams when they are a full CAA member.)
Hofstra


New conference:
UMass
New Hampshire
Rhode Island
Maine
Villanova
Richmond (could possibly see them vying to stay with the southern teams.)
Who else?... Stony Brook? Albany?

Seems like a pretty good split to me. Rivalries would be preserved and each school could play their whole conference every year. The real question would be if both leagues could secure an auto-bid to the playoffs, which in my opinion both would be more than deserving of. I'd miss the shot to play UNH and UMass and Maine every few years, but perhaps we'd meet in the playoffs. It'll be interesting to see how each works out.

Geographically I couldn't see UR staying in the north and NE in the south due to travel costs. And of course as far as geographically it would make more sense for Nova in the south and Hofstra in the north.

[Tealblood]

I have heard the rumor that Albany & Stoney Brook will join the BigSouth in football only in a couple of years.
It gets the BS to 8 with Presbyterian. And would only be 1 long travel for existing BS teams assuming you have one of them home and the other away.
The BS would then be eligible to work on an Auto-Bid to the Playoffs

[Dane96]

That is very funny....BUT NOT TRUE.

HOLY ****...I just crapped my pants from laughing so hard.

[Tealblood]

No I am serious

[Dane96]

And no...that is not true...trust me. You can take what I just said as the gospel...honestly.

[Tealblood]

talk to your AD and or Pres. The deal is pretty close.

[Dane96]

Check your PM

[Tealblood]

how do I do that

[Dane96]

And btw, we dont have a President...he passed away in Myrtle Beach.

[Dane96]

how do I do that

Upper right hand corner...says messages...open it.

[Dane96]

where it says welcome Tealblood.

[Tealblood]

I hear ya I am just going on a pretty damn good source, myself

[rokamortis]

And btw, we dont have a President...he passed away in Myrtle Beach.

Sorry to hear that. But he actually died while vacationing in Hilton Head.

[Tribe4SF]

CAA Football will never exceed 12 teams. When ODU comes in, someone will have to go among the affiliates. If SB joined as a full member, someone else would have to go. The affiliates know this, and that's why a new league is probable. Anyone looking to join the CAA is going to have to do it as a full member. A school like Albany would be facing significant travel costs for other sports.

[89Hen]

CAA Football will never exceed 12 teams. When ODU comes in, someone will have to go among the affiliates.
That's an interesting way of putting it. Do you really think the CAA would pull a Big East and tell a team they had to leave? I don't.

But for arguement's sake, who would you pick? Would you pick the worst team? The team furthest away? The one that would have the best chance of finding another good home? The one that screwed the CAA a few years ago?

URI - They could seek refuge in the NEC and cut schollies.
UMass - They've toyed with the idea of I-A.
Maine and UNH - There's nowhere for them to go in the current landscape.
Villanova and Richmond - People wish they'd look at PL, but would either want to go to grants?

[lizrdgizrd]

That's an interesting way of putting it. Do you really think the CAA would pull a Big East and tell a team they had to leave? I don't.

But for arguement's sake, who would you pick? Would you pick the worst team? The team furthest away? The one that would have the best chance of finding another good home? The one that screwed the CAA a few years ago?

URI - They could seek refuge in the NEC and cut schollies.
UMass - They've toyed with the idea of I-A.
Maine and UNH - There's nowhere for them to go in the current landscape.
Villanova and Richmond - People wish they'd look at PL, but would either want to go to grants?

If the SoCon is actually looking to expand, then Richmond might fit here. Then you'd have a spot for your new CAA school.

[henfan]

That's an interesting way of putting it. Do you really think the CAA would pull a Big East and tell a team they had to leave? I don't.

I don't either, however, I do think there's enough interest on the part of the CAA, America East, A-10 and Villanova to eventually work together on a mutally beneficial deal that would create two separate FB leagues... in due time.

A lot of this would necessarily revolve around I-AA playoff expansion. If there isn't some committment to expand the field & the number of auto-bids in the next 5 years, there would be little impetus for the CAA to split.

Barring that, there's always the remote possibility that one or more of the current twelve A-10/CAA FB teams could go to an existing conference or cancel football before ODU comes on in '11. We'll still be left with a 10-12 team conference.

As for Albany & an all-sport membership, I'm not certain if Olympic sport travel expenses would dramatically increase for them in a 14 team CAA. If the league split into to 7 team divisions based on geography, a majority of games would be played against regional schools like Northeastern, Hofstra, Drexel, Delaware and Towson. Travel-wise it wouldn't be much different than games vs. America East rivals BU, Stony Brook, UNH, Maine, and UMBC.

[Dane96]

CAA Football will never exceed 12 teams. When ODU comes in, someone will have to go among the affiliates. If SB joined as a full member, someone else would have to go. The affiliates know this, and that's why a new league is probable. Anyone looking to join the CAA is going to have to do it as a full member. A school like Albany would be facing significant travel costs for other sports.

No more so than Northeastern. In fact, you can argue it is easier to travel from Albany than Boston (I have traveled to most CAA areas from both. Additionally, all discount airlines servicing the airports by CAA schools have flight into Albany.

[rufus]

I just don't see the CAA ever expanding to more than 12 teams. ODU is starting football in 2009, but I'm pretty sure they won't become a full conference member until 2011. I would be very surprised if JMU hasn't moved to I-A (or Bowl Division or whatever) by that time, and a move by UMass wouldn't exactly shock me either.

[henfan]

ODU begins CAA conference play in 2011. That's 5 whole years from now. By then, JMU should be competing in the AFC Central with Delaware State.

DelState Hornets Stadium of the future- coming soon, along with I-A football!
http://www.creativeanimation.com/Gallery/albums/DSU/DSU_ExteriorC.jpg

[BearsCountry]

AE conference could get the autobid if the MEAC decides to drop out of playoff football.

[rufus]

That's an impressive stadium that Delaware State has planned. It's good to see that at least one university in the state of Delaware has plans to improve its facilities. What's the timeline on the construction? Considering their lack of success recruiting at the I-AA level, I think DSU could struggle in I-A. Barring a massive unprecedented reallignment, I can't see DSU and JMU playing in the same conference, but I guess stranger things have happened.

[blur2005]

ODU begins CAA conference play in 2011. That's 5 whole years from now. By then, JMU should be competing in the AFC Central with Delaware State.

DelState Hornets Stadium of the future- coming soon, along with I-A football!
http://www.creativeanimation.com/Gallery/albums/DSU/DSU_ExteriorC.jpg
I think a better name for that company is "Creative Imagination" because you need one to ever see Delaware State with that kind of stadium and the program level to support it.

Also, I used to think JMU was always going to be pushing to go I-A but now I'm not so sure. I believe the fact that there is no viable conference to move into in I-A will keep JMU I-AA until there's another east coast I-A conference. Perhaps if some other I-AA schools came together, like Delaware or App State, and moved up together to form another I-A league. That's the only possibility I could foresee that would lead JMU to I-A football. Moreover, I don't think Delaware is looking to move up due to funding and there's probably not enough schools close to being in a position to do this.


That's an impressive stadium that Delaware State has planned. It's good to see that at least one university in the state of Delaware has plans to improve its facilities. What's the timeline on the construction? Considering their lack of success recruiting at the I-AA level, I think DSU could struggle in I-A. Barring a massive unprecedented reallignment, I can't see DSU and JMU playing in the same conference, but I guess stranger things have happened.

I believe henfan was making what is called a "joke."

[GoGuins]

I've read Stony Brook is on YSU's schedule next year

[henfan]

Blur, I was indeed poking fun. It's one thing to have stadium plan designs and I-A aspirations but reality is another thing entirely.

Funding is the issue for any school with I-A dreams, but conference affiliation is almost as important, if not more so. There is absolutely no chance that JMU will have a bowl sub-division program in the next 5 years, whether or not the school manages to fund major upgrades to Bridgeforth. Even if some Daddy Warbucks emerges out of the thin air, there just isn't likely to be any open slots in eastern conferences anytime soon, as you suggested.

[rufus]

Apparently Henfan knows more than about JMU's future plans than JMU's admin. Congrats on that. It is extremely ignorant to state that there is "abosutely no chance" that JMU will make the move in the next five years, when you have no connection to the university whatsoever. It's one thing to state that a move is unlikely based only on your personal opionion, but it's ignorant to speak in absolutes when you have no clue.

As someone who actually knows something about JMU's plans, I can tell you that there is very little chance that JMU will not be in I-A within five years. PM me if you want more details.

[Sly Fox]

Forgive me for being a Johnny Come Lately, but I'm hearing the SB & UA to Big South for football rumors as well. There's an awful lot of smoke for their to not be a spark at all.

As for JMU stepping up, the time table would be the only thing surprising about their move. When they go I suspect there will be a number of schools joining them.

[henfan]

Rufus, sorry if you think my opinion is ignorant. I prefer to think of it as realistic. Sorry you took offense. I appreciate your enthusiasum; I really do, no matter how wildly unrealistic. And, despite what you might think, I have a lot of respect for JMU as an institution.

First off, where will JMU secure the tens of millions of dollars it would take to fund a major college football program- considering Title IX equivalancies- in the next 3 years? (Didn't JMU just cancel several athletic programs due to Title IX concerns?) Most importantly, in what conference would JMU be placing all of its athletic programs? The ACC? The Big East? C-USA? Mountain West? Given the 2 year transition phase for reclassification, JMU would need to make the big announcement by the end of December 2008.

So what's the double secret plan? Lay it out for us.

[JMU_Fan_2007]

I, for one, hope JMU does not go I-A any time soon, unless they could somehow join a BCS conference (ACC or Big East). They would probably struggle to recruit I-A in Virginia. They simply have not had enough success at the I-AA level. Maybe in 20 years we would be able to succeed. If JMU wants to compete in I-A, I think it's a must to join a BCS conference. I just think JMU needs decades, not a few years, of success before having the potential to join a BCS conference.

[Longhorn]

I, for one, hope JMU does not go I-A any time soon, unless they could somehow join a BCS conference (ACC or Big East). They would probably struggle to recruit I-A in Virginia. They simply have not had enough success at the I-AA level. Maybe in 20 years we would be able to succeed. If JMU wants to compete in I-A, I think it's a must to join a BCS conference. I just think JMU needs decades, not a few years, of success before having the potential to join a BCS conference.


Well, I agree with you on the point of not wanting JMU to go 1-A. I'm quite content watching major college football in the A10, soon-to-be CAA, as opposed to the bloated fat-cats in what I dub the PCFL ("Professional College Football") Leagues. :smiley_wi That said, if a decision was made by JMU's Sr. Admin. to move in that direction, it wouldn't take "decades" (plural) of continued 1-A success to prompt the move...but it sure would take the better part of at least one decade to raise the $$ and complete the facility upgrades, and not just for FB, to become attractive to a BCS league (such as the Big East).

[UAalum72]

Forgive me for being a Johnny Come Lately, but I'm hearing the SB & UA to Big South for football rumors as well. There's an awful lot of smoke for their to not be a spark at all.
Big South teams heading north to Albany for November football? Hmmmm...but I suppose it makes as much geographic sense as St. Louis U in the Atlantic 10 or Denver in the Sunbelt.

[Sly Fox]

There is a mutual need that would justify Big South teams making one roadie a year. Its more of an issue from a budget standpoint for the New Yorkers to make two southern roadies each season. Nobody thinks this is a great longterm solution. But I'm hearing this is more than just idle talk despite their being nothing imminent.

[rufus]

Rufus, sorry if you think my opinion is ignorant. I prefer to think of it as realistic. Sorry you took offense. I appreciate your enthusiasum; I really do, no matter how wildly unrealistic. And, despite what you might think, I have a lot of respect for JMU as an institution.

First off, where will JMU secure the tens of millions of dollars it would take to fund a major college football program- considering Title IX equivalancies- in the next 3 years? (Didn't JMU just cancel several athletic programs due to Title IX concerns?) Most importantly, in what conference would JMU be placing all of its athletic programs? The ACC? The Big East? C-USA? Mountain West? Given the 2 year transition phase for reclassification, JMU would need to make the big announcement by the end of December 2008.

So what's the double secret plan? Lay it out for us.
There's no such thing as an ignorant opinion, but it is ignorant to state opinion as fact. There's nothing unrealistic about my enthusiasm, so you stop with the condescending attitude. If you have any respect for JMU, you certainly don't show it.

First of all, JMU doesn't need to raise tens of millions of dollars to make the initial transition to I-A. We already have a larger athletic budget than any school in the Sun Belt or MAC, and most in CUSA and the WAC. JMU's first round of expansion (which is already budgeted BTW) should take us to around 22-25k seats depending on the exact configuration. If WKU can make the move with 22k seats, so can JMU.

I'm not "laying out" anything on this board. Send me a PM if you want more details. I'll give you my AIM screen name, and we can discuss at great length.

[Dane96]

Sigh....

Facts:
UA is tied into a conference until 2010 (can leave of course)

UA's biggest step is completion of three stadiums (incuding the start of a football stadium). ALL MONEY IS GOING THERE...and not a 5 game flying travel budget to schools with nothing in common to UA and no automatic bid.

If the proposal for the autobid mins doesnt go through...UA will fight with the NEC to gain the autobid for the NEC.

Albany may not be at 63 rides in two years...it may take a couple years more than that.

Mutual need? What's that. Albany needs an autobid...as does THEIR CONFERENCE. Big South needs an autobid. How does UA switching to the BIG SOUTH help? Someone want to throw out a real reason and not speculate. Do you honestly believe the playoff committee is going to take away an autobid from another league and give it to the Big South? COME ON...not happening...especially since their are too many ifs (if Albany joins, if SBU joins, if Presbyterian is any good).

Right now, you are talking about two years...when a lot could happen. You are also talking about a school that is starting to build its own leverage.

Further, you are talking about 2009. Most believe there will be some shakeup of the CAA in 2011 when ODU joins. Is Albany going to do this for two years??????? Better yet, will the Big South allow that and not put in a huge buyout. If UA and SBU come in...they are going to want an out in 2011...that way they can move to whatever version of the AE/CAA that comes about.

All the smoke...is coming from the Big South...not UA...and not SBU.

Let's worry about UA getting to 63 rides, which requires nearly 60 rides (because of equity issues).