Dartmouth Adds Series With Stetson

[DFW HOYA]

Another Ivy-PL weekend going south...

http://www.vnews.com/home/14076778-95/dartmouth-huffs-and-puffs-past-columbia

[Pard4Life]

Not so fast my friend: Dartmouth will open the 2017 season at Florida’s Stetson University, which is coached by Roger Hughes, Princeton’s onetime bench boss and the Big Green’s offensive coordinator from 1992-99.

And it's a trip to Florida. Are you sure this is not replacing the UNH game? Dartmouth has usually played a Pioneer team. I recall Butler.

[Sader87]

That's just embarrassing....Bob Blackman is throwing up in his grave.

I seriously don't know what schools like Harvard, Dartmouth and Princeton are thinking scheduling these types of schools....they are gaining absolutely nothing (outside of a W (maybe) and a warm-weather locale.

The Ivies could and should be playing much bettah OOC schedules....in a way they are hurting the entire level of FCS football by not doing so.

[Go...gate]

That's just embarrassing....Bob Blackman is throwing up in his grave.

I seriously don't know what schools like Harvard, Dartmouth and Princeton are thinking scheduling these types of schools....they are gaining absolutely nothing (outside of a W (maybe) and a warm-weather locale.

The Ivies could and should be playing much bettah OOC schedules....in a way they are hurting the entire level by not doing so.

+1

[Pard4Life]

That's just embarrassing....Bob Blackman is throwing up in his grave.

I seriously don't know what schools like Harvard, Dartmouth and Princeton are thinking scheduling these types of schools....they are gaining absolutely nothing (outside of a W (maybe) and a warm-weather locale.

The Ivies could and should be playing much bettah OOC schedules....in a way they are hurting the entire level by not doing so.

They don't care. Harvard will continue to get solid players. Kids want the prestige and education. Nothing will change, except the PL maybe grabbing a few kids. Pards already grabbed our WR Mrazek from Penn.

If anything, Yale showed Ivy football is not irrelevant. 35,000 for a non-Harvard game in the bowl? They scheduled somebody and made an effort to be relevant.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Why has a Harvard-UNH series not come to fruition? Top two New England FCS programs for more or less the last decade -- this would just make too much sense.

[PantherRob82]

Seems like an odd series. Is Stetson considered anything of an academic equivalent?

[Sader87]

Why has a Harvard-UNH series not come to fruition? Top two New England FCS programs for more or less the last decade -- this would just make too much sense.

The Harvard head coach is a pussy....there, I said it.

[Green26]

That's just embarrassing....Bob Blackman is throwing up in his grave.

I seriously don't know what schools like Harvard, Dartmouth and Princeton are thinking scheduling these types of schools....they are gaining absolutely nothing (outside of a W (maybe) and a warm-weather locale.

The Ivies could and should be playing much bettah OOC schedules....in a way they are hurting the entire level of FCS football by not doing so.

Perhaps true, but Florida is a good recruiting state for Dartmouth, and Teevens wants to play more games away from the northeast and in the vicinity of recruiting areas. See below. Gailbraith is an senior associate AD at Dartmouth.

"The recruiting value is why, when Galbraith and Teevens are looking at games in the “challenge” category, other schools jump ahead of cross-state rival New Hampshire.
“You can absolutely make the argument that the UNH game provides less value for us than it does for them,” said Galbraith. “For UNH, obviously, we are the other Division I school in the state. They still recruit heavily in the state, as well as in Massachusetts, where that might make a difference. Beyond a handful of players who understand the academic value of Dartmouth, we are not going head-to-head UNH for New Hampshire players. So from that standpoint it doesn't make as much sense for us to play UNH.“If we are going to play somebody of that caliber,” Galbraith continued, “I can very easily make the case that it would be more beneficial for our kids to go play Montana, just because of the life experience. Not that we’re going to Montana anytime soon.”

[Go Green]

Perhaps true, but Florida is a good recruiting state for Dartmouth, and Teevens wants to play more games away from the northeast and in the vicinity of recruiting areas.


This is the reason why we're playing Stetson. We played Butler last year. We've got a lot of players from Illinois, and our best running back is from Indianapolis. We were able to turn the trip into a recruiting visit. Also, parents like it when they know that they can see their kid play one game that is within driving distance.

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

Why has a Harvard-UNH series not come to fruition? Top two New England FCS programs for more or less the last decade -- this would just make too much sense.

Interact with those ruffians from the woods....never!

[Gordon Shumway]

Perhaps true, but Florida is a good recruiting state for Dartmouth, and Teevens wants to play more games away from the northeast and in the vicinity of recruiting areas. See below. Gailbraith is an senior associate AD at Dartmouth.

"The recruiting value is why, when Galbraith and Teevens are looking at games in the “challenge” category, other schools jump ahead of cross-state rival New Hampshire.
“You can absolutely make the argument that the UNH game provides less value for us than it does for them,” said Galbraith. “For UNH, obviously, we are the other Division I school in the state. They still recruit heavily in the state, as well as in Massachusetts, where that might make a difference. Beyond a handful of players who understand the academic value of Dartmouth, we are not going head-to-head UNH for New Hampshire players. So from that standpoint it doesn't make as much sense for us to play UNH.“If we are going to play somebody of that caliber,” Galbraith continued, “I can very easily make the case that it would be more beneficial for our kids to go play Montana, just because of the life experience. Not that we’re going to Montana anytime soon.”

I hear The College of Faith has some schedule openings available. They are in a good recruiting area.

[DFW HOYA]

I hear The College of Faith has some schedule openings available. They are in a good recruiting area.

The C of F has been outscored 219-0 in its four games against intercollegiate opponents. Its next opponent is 8-0. Uh-oh...

http://athletics.wesley.edu/sports/fball/2014-15/schedule

[Go Green]

I hear The College of Faith has some schedule openings available. They are in a good recruiting area.

There's also some history between Dartmouth and Hughes. My impression is that Hughes really enjoyed his time at Dartmouth. So long as Hughes is at Stetson, there will be mutual interest in maintaining a series (if it becomes one) between the schools.

It wasn't an accident that Dartmouth picked up Stetson and not, say, Jacksonville.

[ccd494]

It also isn't an accident that Dartmouth is terrified of playing UNH. Make all the excuses you want about no recruiting benefit, etc., but if Dartmouth had beaten UNH since Franklin Pierce was president, that series would still be ongoing.

[Go Green]

It also isn't an accident that Dartmouth is terrified of playing UNH. Make all the excuses you want about no recruiting benefit, etc., but if Dartmouth had beaten UNH since Franklin Pierce was president, that series would still be ongoing.

We dropped Colgate as well, even though we had taken a few games from them. Going to Hamilton didn't offer any recruiting benefits for Dartmouth either.

Nothing personal. Just business.

[KPSUL]

Harvard and Dartmouth are doing what has become common for the Ivy football programs for decades; when they are no longer among the best at their current level of play they quit trying and claim some arcane, elitist hubris concerning academic standards as the justification. Strangely, this has not occurred with Division 1 Hockey Programs which are more intense than FCS football, the season runs longer, the players travel more, and Ivies are full participants including NCAA playoffs. Here's a quote taken from the home page of Ivy League Hockey " Men's Ice Hockey Seventeen Former Ivies on NHL Opening Day Rosters Former players from Brown, Cornell, Dartmouth, Harvard and Yale ..." Sorta sounds like what you'd read on an SEC football site.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Harvard and Dartmouth are doing what has become common for the Ivy football programs for decades; when they are no longer among the best at their current level of play they quit trying and claim some arcane, elitist hubris concerning academic standards as the justification. Strangely, this has not occurred with Division 1 Hockey Programs which are more intense than FCS football, the season runs longer, the players travel more, and Ivies are full participants including NCAA playoffs. Here's a quote taken from the home page of Ivy League Hockey " Men's Ice Hockey Seventeen Former Ivies on NHL Opening Day Rosters Former players from Brown, Cornell, Dartmouth, Harvard and Yale ..." Sorta sounds like what you'd read on an SEC football site.

Agree 100%. All the lame excuses for postseason, player health, etc. go right out the window when it comes to hockey, or pretty much any sport except football.

[Pard4Life]

I think the recruiting argument is a little exaggerated.

[Gater]

Great post by KPSUL.

[Go Green]

Harvard and Dartmouth are doing what has become common for the Ivy football programs for decades; when they are no longer among the best at their current level of play they quit trying and claim some arcane, elitist hubris concerning academic standards as the justification. .

The justifications evolved over the decades as follows:

1) We didn't want to support segregation in the south, so no bowl games. When that argument became moot, we went with:

2) We wanted to avoid the abuses of big-time football. When that argument became moot, we went with:

3) We wanted to avoid missed class time. When that argument became moot, we went with:

4) We've always done it that way.

No argument re: hypocrisy in allowing other sports to participate in national playoffs. It's been a source of deep frustration for Ivy football fans for a long time...

:(

[Sader87]

I think the recruiting argument is a little exaggerated.

Of course it is....in 2014, if a high school student-athlete anywhere in the country (or the world for that mattah) doesn't know who is in the Ivy League, that student-athlete should not matriculate at an IL institution.

The IL is basically having a snit fit and not scheduling like they used to in the 60s, 70s and 80s (PL, CAA, Service Academies etc) because they aren't winning as much as they used to then.

[Go Green]

Of course it is....in 2014, if a high school student-athlete anywhere in the country (or the world for that mattah) doesn't know who is in the Ivy League, that student-athlete should not matriculate at an IL institution.



That's not the point (although it does happen).

The point is getting face time in the recruit's living room and/or enabling the kid's family and friends to see him play in person. Those things matter.

[Sader87]

That's not the point (although it does happen).

The point is getting face time in the recruit's living room and/or enabling the kid's family and friends to see him play in person. Those things matter.

You don't have to play Stetson or Butler to do this....there are aeroplanes and trains to get a Dartmouth coach to the South or Midwest in the year of our Lord 2014.

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

That's not the point (although it does happen).

The point is getting face time in the recruit's living room and/or enabling the kid's family and friends to see him win in person. Those things matter.

Fixed it for you

[Pard4Life]

You don't have to play Stetson or Butler to do this....there are aeroplanes and trains to get a Dartmouth coach to the South or Midwest in the year of our Lord 2014.

Exactly! So you have maybe two guys from that area of Florida... big deal... and it's one game, two at most over four years, and Johnny probably won't be playing in one as a frosh or soph. Lafayette gets plenty of kids beyond the Northeast... I don't think we are going to schedule Tennessee-Martin or Northern Colorado or Eastern Illinois just so Drew Reed, Colin Alberstadt, and Mrazeck can have a few local games.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

It's more of a carrot for your existing players, and having family and friends get to see your team. For example, Lehigh traveled to Drake a few years ago, something WR Jake Drwal and DB Jarard Cribbs greatly appreciated since it allowed their family and friends to watch them live without flying. (It so happened that they traveled to UNI later, too.)

[citdog]

Way to go IVY! REALLY working on scheduling QUALITY OOC opponents I see.

[Gordon Shumway]

The C of F has been outscored 219-0 in its four games against intercollegiate opponents. Its next opponent is 8-0. Uh-oh...

http://athletics.wesley.edu/sports/fball/2014-15/schedule

I know, that's why I mentioned them. They seem to fit right in with the scheduling philosophy.

[Go Green]

I know, that's why I mentioned them. They seem to fit right in with the scheduling philosophy.

Usually the sarcasm is along the lines of scheduling Smith or Bryn Mawr.

:)

[KPSUL]

Usually the sarcasm is along the lines of scheduling Smith or Bryn Mawr.

:)
You're taking all this criticism with good humor! I consider Dartmouth a member of the small NH football community and pull for you in every game (except UNH). Just DON'T lose to Stetson, or you'll have to put a brown paper bag over that Dartmouth helmet.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

You're taking all this criticism with good humor! I consider Dartmouth a member of the small NH football community and pull for you in every game (except UNH). Just DON'T lose to Stetson, or you'll have to put a brown paper bag over that Dartmouth helmet.

Bogie can help with that. xlolx

[Go...gate]

That's not the point (although it does happen).

The point is getting face time in the recruit's living room and/or enabling the kid's family and friends to see him play in person. Those things matter.

Oh, come on. Ivy schools should not need to get face time with a kid. If the kid (or the kid's parents) have any brains at all, they are beating the Ivy school's door down to have their kid attend!

[DetroitFlyer]

Talk about a snoozer. One FCS team schedules a game with another FCS team. Wow, stop the presses, what big news.... NOT!!

[Pard4Life]

Bogie can help with that. xlolx

I'm worried about Bogie... he has been MIA since Saturday... don't think he made it out of College Hill Tavern on Saturday lol... I've come to accept the fact that we are not going to win with Tavani and our current AD. If this were Lehigh, Tavani would have been gone in 2012.

[Gordon Shumway]

You're taking all this criticism with good humor! I consider Dartmouth a member of the small NH football community and pull for you in every game (except UNH). Just DON'T lose to Stetson, or you'll have to put a brown paper bag over that Dartmouth helmet.

You must not have been around for UNH/Dartmouth football when they were winning the game every time. I was at UNH in the late 60's, and went to every UNH/D game through 1980 before moving to FL. Let me just say the condescension was palpable. The closest thing I can think of to compare going to Hanover for a football game back then to today, while wearing a UNH hat, is everyone treating you like you had Ebola. xlolx

I did get to see the first ever win in '73, and the beginning of almost total domination in '80. They are still talking longingly of the tie in 1990. Stetson is only in their 2nd year after restarting football after a long absence, but they have a couple more years to get their act together. Frankly, I hope they croak Dartmouth. :D

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Thread has been cleaned. Poli/history posts are in the junk thread if anyone feels like carrying on over there.

[Go Green]

You're taking all this criticism with good humor! I consider Dartmouth a member of the small NH football community and pull for you in every game (except UNH). Just DON'T lose to Stetson, or you'll have to put a brown paper bag over that Dartmouth helmet.

We're used to the criticism. The Ivy scheduling trends have been going in this direction for quite some time.

My own opinion is that the criticism has merit. I'd love to see the Ivy teams "reach" at least one game. Dartmouth-UNH, Penn-Nova, Harvard-BC, etc. The problem is the stupid Ivy rule that limits us to ten games total so we can only do three OOC games. I think that if we had 11 games, most Ivy teams would use that extra game for a challenging opponent.

As for Stetson, any idiot could have seen that they would schedule Ivy games once they named Roger Hughes as coach. I think they are also playing Brown, but nobody should be shocked that they are playing Dartmouth as well.

We will see how they are in a few years. When Dartmouth first scheduled the Sacred Heart series, everyone thought it would be a cakewalk. Now they are beating Delaware. And they took two of three from us along the way.

[Go Green]

Oh, come on. Ivy schools should not need to get face time with a kid. If the kid (or the kid's parents) have any brains at all, they are beating the Ivy school's door down to have their kid attend!

There is theory, and there is reality.

A lot of kids (particularly in the south) may be aware of the Ivy, but never really considered applying there until the coaches came knocking on their doors.

[Sader87]

Again, Holy Cross has one of the most geographically diverse rostahs in the country and they very seldomly play outside of the Northeast. You can recruit nationally without playing teams all ovah the country....particularly if your team is in the Ivy League.

http://goholycross.com/sports/m-footbl/2014-15/roster

[Pard4Life]

Talk about a snoozer. One FCS team schedules a game with another FCS team. Wow, stop the presses, what big news.... NOT!!

Lol... what do you think about the 'growing' Ivy relationship with the PFL?

[Go Green]

Again, Holy Cross has one of the most geographically diverse rostahs in the country and they very seldomly play outside of the Northeast. You can recruit nationally without playing teams all ovah the country....particularly if your team is in the Ivy League.

http://goholycross.com/sports/m-footbl/2014-15/roster

This season probably isn't the best year for Holy Cross to suggest that the Ivy is going overboard in its recruiting practices.

:)

[Sader87]

This season probably isn't the best year for Holy Cross to suggest that the Ivy is going overboard in its recruiting practices.

:)

Point taken....but a lot of our schollie/bettah kids are from far-flung states: Pujals (IL), Guild (KS), Wieczorek (GA), McBeath (Fl) etc etc

Dartmouth, as you, me and everyone else on this board knows, can recruit in the state of Florida without having to play Stetson.

[KPSUL]

You must not have been around for UNH/Dartmouth football when they were winning the game every time. I was at UNH in the late 60's, and went to every UNH/D game through 1980 before moving to FL. Let me just say the condescension was palpable. The closest thing I can think of to compare going to Hanover for a football game back then to today, while wearing a UNH hat, is everyone treating you like you had Ebola. xlolx

I did get to see the first ever win in '73, and the beginning of almost total domination in '80. They are still talking longingly of the tie in 1990. Stetson is only in their 2nd year after restarting football after a long absence, but they have a couple more years to get their act together. Frankly, I hope they croak Dartmouth. :D

Truth be known, my Uncle Went to Dartmouth and played Football when helmets were still made from livestock. His coach was Red Blaik so you know I can't be much younger than you. He went to several UNH - Dartmouth games with me during the Bill Bowes era, of course we were winning then and he was always disappointed with what had happen to his team.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Remember when all of the Ivy League used to not schedule Sacred Heart because they weren't "good enough" for them?

[Green26]

I think the recruiting argument is a little exaggerated.

The recruiting argument isn't exaggerated at all. I know Teevens well. I've talked to him about this subject multiple times. With his approval, I tried to broker a game with Montana about 7 or 8 years ago. Didn't work out. I'm back to working on that.

[Green26]

Agree 100%. All the lame excuses for postseason, player health, etc. go right out the window when it comes to hockey, or pretty much any sport except football.

Player health? I've never noticed that as an excuse.

[Green26]

You don't have to play Stetson or Butler to do this....there are aeroplanes and trains to get a Dartmouth coach to the South or Midwest in the year of our Lord 2014.

You really don't get it. You are dead wrong on this. You must not understand recruiting.

[Green26]

Oh, come on. Ivy schools should not need to get face time with a kid. If the kid (or the kid's parents) have any brains at all, they are beating the Ivy school's door down to have their kid attend!

The Ivies are often going up against scholarship schools for recruits. In fact, those are often the impact players. I don't disagree with your last sentence, but that's not the way many recruits and their families feel.

[Sader87]

You really don't get it. You are dead wrong on this. You must not understand recruiting.

Please......Dartmouth has recruited well for about 100 years without playing Stetson....let's call a spade a spade, Dartmouth is scheduling down....it's not about recruiting in Florida.

[Green26]

Again, Holy Cross has one of the most geographically diverse rostahs in the country and they very seldomly play outside of the Northeast. You can recruit nationally without playing teams all ovah the country....particularly if your team is in the Ivy League.

http://goholycross.com/sports/m-footbl/2014-15/roster

Of course, a team can recruit nationally from anywhere. However, in the view of Teevens and others, the amount of successful recruiting increases by playing games around the country. Recruits and their families can attend from the various surrounding states. And there's some publicity in the geographic area for the game.

[Green26]

Please......Dartmouth has recruited well for about 100 years without playing Stetson....let's call a spade a spade, Dartmouth is scheduling down....it's not about recruiting in Florida.

It is about recruiting in Florida. Florida is an important recruiting state, especially for skill and impact players. Also, the adjacent states. Have you ever been directly involved with recruiting, or playing the game at the college level? I think it's funny how people who have no direct knowledge or information spout off about a subject they know nothing about. As I said before, Dartmouth has considered Montana for a game or home and home, and will likely being doing so again. That is hardly scheduling down.

[Sader87]

This argument is such crap...I'm kind of embarrassed that Dartmouth, a program I've always respected, is trying to make it as one.

Dartmouth does not have to play in Florida, Indiana or Montana to get kids to want to go the Dartmouth.

Dartmouth is playing Stetson basically because they don't want to schedule UNH, Colgate, William&Mary Army etc.....

[Green26]

This argument is such crap...I'm kind of embarrassed that Dartmouth, a program I've always respected, is trying to make it as one.

Dartmouth does not have to play in Florida, Indiana or Montana to get kids to want to go the Dartmouth.

Dartmouth is playing Stetson basically because they don't want to schedule UNH, Colgate, William&Mary Army etc.....

Nope, that's not true. You don't know what you're talking about. I know the coaches and some of the athletic department people involved with scheduling.

Dartmouth has 8 players from Florida on the roster, and about 10 from Georgia, South Carolina, Louisiana and North Carolina. Dartmouth wants to increase the number of recruits from that general area. Dartmouth has 1 player on the roster from New Hampshire, and I don't think any from Vermont.

Why would Dartmouth be interested in Montana, if the prime goal was to schedule down?

You have no clue about Dartmouth recruiting. It's not about attracting recruits from around the country; it's about landing better and top level recruits. Many of those recruits are not standing in line to go to Dartmouth or any Ivy.

[Sader87]

As a former player and alumnus of Dartmouth....you know you're a little embarrassed by the Stetson game....admit it, you'll feel bettah.

I'll believe Dartmouth is playing Montana when I see it scheduled by the way.

[bonarae]

That's just embarrassing....Bob Blackman is throwing up in his grave.

I seriously don't know what schools like Harvard, Dartmouth and Princeton are thinking scheduling these types of schools....they are gaining absolutely nothing (outside of a W (maybe) and a warm-weather locale.

The Ivies could and should be playing much bettah OOC schedules....in a way they are hurting the entire level of FCS football by not doing so.

Hmm, Sader87, you are in the same boat as my POV. IMPOV, the Ivies are already tired of humiliation by the full-scholly FCS teams.


Harvard and Dartmouth are doing what has become common for the Ivy football programs for decades; when they are no longer among the best at their current level of play they quit trying and claim some arcane, elitist hubris concerning academic standards as the justification. Strangely, this has not occurred with Division 1 Hockey Programs which are more intense than FCS football, the season runs longer, the players travel more, and Ivies are full participants including NCAA playoffs. Here's a quote taken from the home page of Ivy League Hockey " Men's Ice Hockey Seventeen Former Ivies on NHL Opening Day Rosters Former players from Brown, Cornell, Dartmouth, Harvard and Yale ..." Sorta sounds like what you'd read on an SEC football site.

Hockey is a different story. At the same time Ivy football's relevance was going south, Ivy hockey's was going up.


Agree 100%. All the lame excuses for postseason, player health, etc. go right out the window when it comes to hockey, or pretty much any sport except football.

I agree with you too, LFN. But I'm thinking that the Ivies will try to become D-I's NESCAC. xsmhx


The justifications evolved over the decades as follows:

1) We didn't want to support segregation in the south, so no bowl games. When that argument became moot, we went with:

2) We wanted to avoid the abuses of big-time football. When that argument became moot, we went with:

3) We wanted to avoid missed class time. When that argument became moot, we went with:

4) We've always done it that way.

No argument re: hypocrisy in allowing other sports to participate in national playoffs. It's been a source of deep frustration for Ivy football fans for a long time...

:(

Is culture change needed for Ivy football to suddenly spike up to where we want it to be? xchinscratchx


Of course it is....in 2014, if a high school student-athlete anywhere in the country (or the world for that mattah) doesn't know who is in the Ivy League, that student-athlete should not matriculate at an IL institution.

The IL is basically having a snit fit and not scheduling like they used to in the 60s, 70s and 80s (PL, CAA, Service Academies etc) because they aren't winning as much as they used to then.

First paragraph: it depends on the sport.

Second paragraph: Scheduling of the Ivies has been one of my secondary complaints throughout my life as a Harvard fan. IDK what ETSU's OOC pattern will be for 2016 and beyond to even compare with the Ivies.


We're used to the criticism. The Ivy scheduling trends have been going in this direction for quite some time.

My own opinion is that the criticism has merit. I'd love to see the Ivy teams "reach" at least one game. Dartmouth-UNH, Penn-Nova, Harvard-BC, etc. The problem is the stupid Ivy rule that limits us to ten games total so we can only do three OOC games. I think that if we had 11 games, most Ivy teams would use that extra game for a challenging opponent.

As for Stetson, any idiot could have seen that they would schedule Ivy games once they named Roger Hughes as coach. I think they are also playing Brown, but nobody should be shocked that they are playing Dartmouth as well.

We will see how they are in a few years. When Dartmouth first scheduled the Sacred Heart series, everyone thought it would be a cakewalk. Now they are beating Delaware. And they took two of three from us along the way.

Unfortunately, the stupid rules may not change or be eliminated in our lifetime. xsmhx


There is theory, and there is reality.

A lot of kids (particularly in the south) may be aware of the Ivy, but never really considered applying there until the coaches came knocking on their doors.

Or maybe the likes of the NESCAC, UChicago, MIT or even D2's for that matter.


Lol... what do you think about the 'growing' Ivy relationship with the PFL?

That's a relationship I didn't expect that would happen when I became a fan. But as I grew older, I became more dissatisfied with Ivy football and wanted a program like ETSU to restart, so next year is the right time (I hope) to move on.


The Ivies are often going up against scholarship schools for recruits. In fact, those are often the impact players. I don't disagree with your last sentence, but that's not the way many recruits and their families feel.

I agree with the recruits statement. If the recruit flops in the Ivies, he's gone from the scene forever.


Nope, that's not true. You don't know what you're talking about. I know the coaches and some of the athletic department people involved with scheduling.

Dartmouth has 8 players from Florida on the roster, and about 10 from Georgia, South Carolina, Louisiana and North Carolina. Dartmouth wants to increase the number of recruits from that general area. Dartmouth has 1 player on the roster from New Hampshire, and I don't think any from Vermont.

Why would Dartmouth be interested in Montana, if the prime goal was to schedule down?

You have no clue about Dartmouth recruiting. It's not about attracting recruits from around the country; it's about landing better and top level recruits. Many of those recruits are not standing in line to go to Dartmouth or any Ivy.

What "those recruits" are you talking about? Those more suited for full-scholly football e.g. for NDSU, Griz, etc.?

[Go...gate]

The Ivies are often going up against scholarship schools for recruits. In fact, those are often the impact players. I don't disagree with your last sentence, but that's not the way many recruits and their families feel.

Well, they are crazy then. Just my two cents. You get a chance to attend an Ivy, you take it.

[Green26]

Well, they are crazy then. Just my two cents. You get a chance to attend an Ivy, you take it.

I don't disagree with you, but if there was actually true, the Ivy league would be much better in football. I have a nephew who has been offered a spot on the recruit list of a top Ivy this year, but, currently, he's planning to go out elsewhere. Another nephew chose did go to Dartmouth over the Big Sky in the past decade, but his immediate family already had Dartmouth in its genes.

For Bonarae: I'm not talking about recruits "better-suited" for NDSU or Montana, but I am talking about recruits capable of playing at schools like that, or even some capable of playing at FBS schools. It doesn't take too many recruits like that to make an impact at an Ivy school.

[Green26]

As a former player and alumnus of Dartmouth....you know you're a little embarrassed by the Stetson game....admit it, you'll feel bettah.

I'll believe Dartmouth is playing Montana when I see it scheduled by the way.

I'm not embarrassed by playing Stetson. I don't really don't know who they are. I just know where they are, and how much far-away games in better recruiting areas mean to recruiting. I haven't been excited about some of the non-conference games of the Ivies and Dartmouth for many years, but that doesn't mean that recruiting doesn't play a large role in, and receive significant benefits from, scheduling games like this. Also, the Roger Hughes connection is important, just like the former Dartmouth players with connections to Montana are important in trying to put together a Dartmouth/Montana game. As was said in the earlier quote, if Dartmouth is going to play a high quality team like UNH, why not play a team like Montana. UNH is not an exciting game for many Dartmouth followers. Been there; done that. Montana would be much more exciting. And Montana's game day atmosphere is 10 times better than UNH's, maybe more. Would be exciting for the players.

[Go Green]

Dartmouth does not have to play in Florida, Indiana or Montana to get kids to want to go the Dartmouth.



That assertion is accurate in the technical sense. That being said, we also don't "have to" fit our players in alternative jersies or dedicate a website solely to football highlights for recruiting either. But it helps.

Ditto for playing games in Florida and other fertile recruiting grounds.




Dartmouth is playing Stetson basically because they don't want to schedule UNH, Colgate, William&Mary Army etc.....

I can assure you that we're not scared of Colgate and Army.

http://thedartmouth.com/2014/10/11/sports/big-green-football-defeats-yale-38-31

:)

[Go Green]

Well, they are crazy then. Just my two cents. You get a chance to attend an Ivy, you take it.

All Ivies lose kids to all types of schools. And not just to the Stanfords of the world.

This guy was all set to come to Hanover, when a scholarship arrived at the last minute.

http://www.tulsahurricane.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/jerry_uwaezuoke_810558.html

Dartmouth lost another guy this season who elected to walk on at USC instead.

And the other seven have similar stories.

[lydiabixby]

As KPSUL says, "Go Green" has taken it on the chin in this thread graciously. So maybe we should also listen to his argument.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Stetson has little to no academic similarity or mission statement than Dartmouth. They accept more than half of their applicants, have little football or athletics history, and sponsor about half the number of sports of Dartmouth. They have not historically played in anything, have no rivalry, and are more than a 20 hour drive away from each other. Stetson is a suburban campus; Dartmouth is rural. Dartmouth is a college; Stetson is a University.

Their only similarity is that they're both not serious about competing for the FCS National championship.

If Dartmouth wanted to schedule institutionally similar schools, they'd schedule Holy Cross and Lafayette every year (and most years they have). There's also no shortage of high-academic schools to choose from in the Northeast: Villanova, William and Mary, Richmond, and perhaps Albany and Delaware, many of which are a long bus ride away. UNH, of course, is a bus ride and has strong academic standards for out-of-state kids.

Obviously it's not about hobnobbing with peers, or recruiting. It's about wins.

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

As KPSUL says, "Go Green" has taken it on the chin in this thread graciously. So maybe we should also listen to his argument.

As a UNH fan, I'd like to take this time to thank Dartmouth for their 5-1 record and #36 ranking. Beat Harvard!!!!!!

Lehigh on the other hand....

[Green26]

Stetson has little to no academic similarity or mission statement than Dartmouth. They accept more than half of their applicants, have little football or athletics history, and sponsor about half the number of sports of Dartmouth. They have not historically played in anything, have no rivalry, and are more than a 20 hour drive away from each other. Stetson is a suburban campus; Dartmouth is rural. Dartmouth is a college; Stetson is a University.

Their only similarity is that they're both not serious about competing for the FCS National championship.

If Dartmouth wanted to schedule institutionally similar schools, they'd schedule Holy Cross and Lafayette every year (and most years they have). There's also no shortage of high-academic schools to choose from in the Northeast: Villanova, William and Mary, Richmond, and perhaps Albany and Delaware, many of which are a long bus ride away. UNH, of course, is a bus ride and has strong academic standards for out-of-state kids.

Obviously it's not about hobnobbing with peers, or recruiting. It's about wins.

Nope, it's about recruiting. Most of your post actually supports the argument that it is a game for recruiting in Florida and the southeast.

[Go Green]

Obviously it's not about hobnobbing with peers, or recruiting. It's about wins.

I get that correlation does not mean causation, etc.

That being said... it's hard to argue with the results from Dartmouth's standpoint. We did the UNH-Colgate-HC gamut for 15 years from the mid-1990s to 2009. Obviously, that didn't help recruiting any. We sucked in those years. Once we diversified our OOC, we got better players.

Yes, I get that there were other factors at play (new varsity house, better assistant coaches for openers). But Dartmouth is a lot better now than we were when we were limiting ourselves to UNH-HC-Colgate every year.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

No question there is a recruiting aspect to it, a chance for Florida players on Dartmouth to have freinds and family and recruits watch Big Green football. Also true that the IL's archaic rules regarding scheduling, not only 11th (and 12th) games but starting the season so late, hems in the Ivies in terms of OOC games. By the time they're on their last OOC game, most of America is in conference play.

[Green26]

No question there is a recruiting aspect to it, a chance for Florida players on Dartmouth to have freinds and family and recruits watch Big Green football. Also true that the IL's archaic rules regarding scheduling, not only 11th (and 12th) games but starting the season so late, hems in the Ivies in terms of OOC games. By the time they're on their last OOC game, most of America is in conference play.

And I acknowledge that Dartmouth and perhaps other Ivies may be moving away from the PL games. Not saying that is a good idea. Obviously, UNH is its own animal for Dartmouth. No reason to play them too often, but should be play from time to time. At least, they have a real stadium now. If Dartmouth just wanted easy winnable games, they could probably find them closer to home--and without the large travel cost.

[Gordon Shumway]

It is about recruiting in Florida. Florida is an important recruiting state, especially for skill and impact players. Also, the adjacent states. Have you ever been directly involved with recruiting, or playing the game at the college level? I think it's funny how people who have no direct knowledge or information spout off about a subject they know nothing about. As I said before, Dartmouth has considered Montana for a game or home and home, and will likely being doing so again. That is hardly scheduling down.

Therein lies the fallacy in your argument. There are are 7 FBS schools & 4 FCS schools in the state already recruiting almost exclusively here. Add to that every major program in the country recruits here to some extent, as well as many FCS schools. Trust me when I tell you that playing Stetson is not going to matter one iota in the quality of the recruits you get from FL. What you are getting now due to being an Ivy will be the same players you are getting whether you play Stetson, or not. How much top talent do you think is going to be around changing their minds, because their parents may get to see them play at Stetson? The recruiting carcass here in FL is picked beyond clean every year.

I don't want to denigrate Stetson by any means. In fact I drive over there occasionally each spring to catch a few baseball games. However, they just restarted football last year after a 57 year hiatus, so they aren't likely to be much of a challenge to Dartmouth for the foreseeable future.

[Go Green]

. How much top talent do you think is going to be around changing their minds, because their parents may get to see them play at Stetson? The recruiting carcass here in FL is picked beyond clean every year.



I don't think that playing at Stetson (or any Florida school) will by itself sway a recruit. But I do think that it's part of the entire bag of goodies (along with new facilities, alternative jerseys, etc.) that Dartmouth can pitch to a kid.

As I said earlier, it was pretty clear from the 2000s that playing exclusively in the Northeast wasn't doing Dartmouth any good in terms of recruiting.

[Sader87]

I don't think that playing at Stetson (or any Florida school) will by itself sway a recruit. But I do think that it's part of the entire bag of goodies (along with new facilities, alternative jerseys, etc.) that Dartmouth can pitch to a kid.

As I said earlier, it was pretty clear from the 2000s that playing exclusively in the Northeast wasn't doing Dartmouth any good in terms of recruiting.

Just playing Devil's advocate, so what do you attribute Dartmouth's success this year to? The one game against Butler at Indy last year? Every other Dartmouth game on the road has been in the Northeast since 2000.

I'll give you guys the "recruiting argument" but you all have to admit the Stetson game is what is as well: an easy win and a nice trip to the Sunshine State.

[Go Green]

The one game against Butler at Indy last year?



Remember that running back we have who ran for 115 yards against you guys? He's from Indiana.

I wasn't in the room during the recruiting pitch. But I can promise you that it came up. "Son--we will be visiting Indianapolis in 2013. Your family and friends can drive up and see you carry the rock in person."

Was that the sole reason reason why he committed to Dartmouth? Most likely not. Did he view it as a positive as part of the entire recruiting pitch? Most likely yes.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Remember that running back we have who ran for 115 yards against you guys? He's from Indiana.

I wasn't in the room during the recruiting pitch. But I can promise you that it came up. "Son--we will be visiting Indianapolis in 2013. Your family and friends can drive up and see you carry the rock in person."

Was that the sole reason reason why he committed to Dartmouth? Most likely not. Did he view it as a positive as part of the entire recruiting pitch? Most likely yes.

Yes, this is the "recruiting" thing people really mean.

[Sader87]

Remember that running back we have who ran for 115 yards against you guys? He's from Indiana.

I wasn't in the room during the recruiting pitch. But I can promise you that it came up. "Son--we will be visiting Indianapolis in 2013. Your family and friends can drive up and see you carry the rock in person."

Was that the sole reason reason why he committed to Dartmouth? Most likely not. Did he view it as a positive as part of the entire recruiting pitch? Most likely yes.

Touche.....

I still think that the Stetson game is a scheduling cupcake though. You could play Bethune-Cookman or Florida A&M just as easily. I know the Hughes connection solidified the deal with the Hatters.

I'll be curious to see other future Dartmouth opponents.

[dgtw]

I would love for Jax State to have a home and home with an Ivy League school.

[Model Citizen]

Some posters here haven't been to Stetson, which is actually in a small town. Definitely more rural than suburban. Just rolling my eyes at the rest of the description...

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Some posters here haven't been to Stetson, which is actually in a small town. Definitely more rural than suburban. Just rolling my eyes at the rest of the description...

US News and Wikipedia call it "suburban", not "rural", and it's not exactly far from Orlando:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Stetson+University/@28.993904,-81.296468,11z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x88e71b79458f79b9:0xc69a3498041ff 3a5

[Gordon Shumway]

US News and Wikipedia call it "suburban", not "rural", and it's not exactly far from Orlando:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Stetson+University/@28.993904,-81.296468,11z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x88e71b79458f79b9:0xc69a3498041ff 3a5

It is not even close to being a suburb of Orlando. It is a very nice nice small city (30Kish) that unlike Orlando has preserved a lot of its classic Florida heritage. It sits alone, and is not a bedroom community for any other larger city. Pretty independent place that would likely have more of a connection to the Daytona area than Orlando. How disconnected is it from Orlando? Deland HS doesn't play any teams from Orlando in football, and in the south that is about as disconnected as you can get. :D

[BucBisonAtLarge]

Congrats to the Green for getting out of the Northeast in your scheduling. Worrying about strength of schedule is for programs aimed at the playoffs. Ivy football is still a fine product, and should get out more. Good luck. Come back to Lewisburg sometime, too.

[bonarae]

Congrats to the Green for getting out of the Northeast in your scheduling. Worrying about strength of schedule is for programs aimed at the playoffs. Ivy football is still a fine product, and should get out more. Good luck. Come back to Lewisburg sometime, too.

Something positive? Or not? It depends... but overall the quality of Ivy football is going on a downward spiral.

[Go Green]

but overall the quality of Ivy football is going on a downward spiral.

Not really sure that's true. The top of the league is still ranked above plenty of FBS schools.

Our bottom has always been putrid. You think Columbia is bad now? They still have another two and a half seasons to go before they match the 1980s Streak.

The only thing that appears to be on a downward spiral is crowds--which is not a problem unique to the Ivy. I am now ready to haul up the white flag and concede that we will never get a decent crowd for a game in lousy weather no matter how good the teams playing are. On a nice day, Dartmouth-Harvard for the title in Hanover would draw 12,000. In the rain or snow, it will maybe be a third of that...

[Ivytalk]

Not really sure that's true. The top of the league is still ranked above plenty of FBS schools.

Our bottom has always been putrid. You think Columbia is bad now? They still have another two and a half seasons to go before they match the 1980s Streak.

The only thing that appears to be on a downward spiral is crowds--which is not a problem unique to the Ivy. I am now ready to haul up the white flag and concede that we will never get a decent crowd for a game in lousy weather no matter how good the teams playing are. On a nice day, Dartmouth-Harvard for the title in Hanover would draw 12,000. In the rain or snow, it will maybe be a third of that...

Fans are such wusses these days. I attended the 1981 Harvard-Yale game, in which the Crimson were spanked by the Bulldogs in a steady New Haven rain (there is no worse kind) before over 73,000 fans. No Internet or major cable back then. I will predict a crowd of 10,000+ for Hanover this weekend, no matter the weather.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I feel at least two of Harvard, Yale, and perhaps Dartmouth should be ranked in the Top 25 teams in the country, and I reiterate that it's a shame that this year we won't be able to see how one or more of these teams would do in the playoffs. I don't know if any of these teams could take on NDSU or Villanova, but I could see them with the right matchup it would be an awesome game. Fordham/Harvard I think would be a fantastic game.

[KPSUL]

I feel at least two of Harvard, Yale, and perhaps Dartmouth should be ranked in the Top 25 teams in the country, and I reiterate that it's a shame that this year we won't be able to see how one or more of these teams would do in the playoffs. I don't know if any of these teams could take on NDSU or Villanova, but I could see them with the right matchup it would be an awesome game. Fordham/Harvard I think would be a fantastic game.

The Coaches Poll has it about right with one Ivy, undefeated Harvard, at 20th. Now if Dartmouth or Yale were to win out, beating Harvard in the process, they could make a case for inclusion in the top 25.

[citdog]

I feel at least two of Harvard, Yale, and perhaps Dartmouth should be ranked in the Top 25 teams in the country, and I reiterate that it's a shame that this year we won't be able to see how one or more of these teams would do in the playoffs. I don't know if any of these teams could take on NDSU or Villanova, but I could see them with the right matchup it would be an awesome game. Fordham/Harvard I think would be a fantastic game.

You're delusional. I merely thought so before but now i am SURE. None of the Ivy's belong anywhere NEAR the Top 25. When they grow a pair and schedule someone perhaps that may change. NDSU and 'Nova would absolutely DESTROY any of the teams you mention. I wish the ivy would SACK UP and play in the playoffs only so that I could laugh at them AND you.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

NDSU and 'Nova would absolutely DESTROY any of the teams you mention and most if not all of the rest of the Top 25

FIFY

[Sader87]

Harvard is probably ranked about right....in the #15-25 range. Not as good as the top CAA/MVFC teams but certainly in the mix after them and a few other teams around the country.

I'd say Fordham would be a slight favorite ovah them at a neutral site,

[Ivytalk]

You're delusional. I merely thought so before but now i am SURE. None of the Ivy's belong anywhere NEAR the Top 25. When they grow a pair and schedule someone perhaps that may change. NDSU and 'Nova would absolutely DESTROY any of the teams you mention. I wish the ivy would SACK UP and play in the playoffs only so that I could laugh at them AND you.

Keep on wanking, Reb.xcoffeex

[Gordon Shumway]

I feel at least two of Harvard, Yale, and perhaps Dartmouth should be ranked in the Top 25 teams in the country, and I reiterate that it's a shame that this year we won't be able to see how one or more of these teams would do in the playoffs. I don't know if any of these teams could take on NDSU or Villanova, but I could see them with the right matchup it would be an awesome game. Fordham/Harvard I think would be a fantastic game.

What would constitute a "right matchup" in your eyes besides Fordham/Harvard? You eliminate that matchup possibility with Nova & NDSU, but what about something like UNH/Dartmouth? Oh wait that has already happened, and it was 52-19 (w/backup QB & RB for UNH).

I've seen Harvard a few times on TV, and think they are a pretty decent team. The problem is am I being fooled by who they are playing. If Dartmouth beats Harvard on Saturday, any respect I might have for the Ivies is out the door.

[bulldog10jw]

On a nice day, Dartmouth-Harvard for the title in Hanover would draw 12,000. In the rain or snow, it will maybe be a third of that...

Dartmouth-Harvard is played too early for the game to ever be considered "for the title."

For "first place" or the winner will have the "inside track" but not "for the title."

[Lehigh Football Nation]

What would constitute a "right matchup" in your eyes besides Fordham/Harvard? You eliminate that matchup possibility with Nova & NDSU, but what about something like UNH/Dartmouth? Oh wait that has already happened, and it was 52-19 (w/backup QB & RB for UNH).

I've seen Harvard a few times on TV, and think they are a pretty decent team. The problem is am I being fooled by who they are playing. If Dartmouth beats Harvard on Saturday, any respect I might have for the Ivies is out the door.

Nova and NDSU, and I would throw UNH in there, are head and shoulders above the rest of FCS in my mind. Its too bad that UNH and Nova don't play during the regular season so we can figure out if one is much, much better than the other.

Dartmouth lost to UNH, but then so would many FCS teams. Fordham probably would.

[Gordon Shumway]

Nova and NDSU, and I would throw UNH in there, are head and shoulders above the rest of FCS in my mind. Its too bad that UNH and Nova don't play during the regular season so we can figure out if one is much, much better than the other.

Dartmouth lost to UNH, but then so would many FCS teams. Fordham probably would.

I probably should have left that whole blurb about UNH/Dartmouth out of my post (couldn't help myself :D), as I was more interested in those matchups you were talking about. I'd like to hear more.

While I love to torment Dartmouth, I would love a UNH/Harvard series even more. Let's put the speculation about them to bed, one way or the other.

[Go Green]

Dartmouth lost to UNH, but then so would many FCS teams. Fordham probably would.

If Fordham loses to Army, we can connect the dots: Fordham << Army << Yale << Dartmouth << UNH

[citdog]

Keep on wanking, Reb.xcoffeex

If you don't love yourself.........

[Green26]

I probably should have left that whole blurb about UNH/Dartmouth out of my post (couldn't help myself :D), as I was more interested in those matchups you were talking about. I'd like to hear more.

While I love to torment Dartmouth, I would love a UNH/Harvard series even more. Let's put the speculation about them to bed, one way or the other.

Doubt that Harvard would ever stoop to playing UNH.

[Green26]

You're delusional. I merely thought so before but now i am SURE. None of the Ivy's belong anywhere NEAR the Top 25. When they grow a pair and schedule someone perhaps that may change. NDSU and 'Nova would absolutely DESTROY any of the teams you mention. I wish the ivy would SACK UP and play in the playoffs only so that I could laugh at them AND you.

You don't have a clue. Various Ivies deserves ranking almost every year. Harvard appears to be very good this year. Note that Yale clobbered Cal Poly last year at CP. If you really are in Missoula, I'm surprised you haven't been run out of town by now.

[Ivytalk]

Doubt that Harvard would ever stoop to playing UNH.

Why not? We stoop to playing Dartmouth.

[lydiabixby]

Why not? We stoop to playing Dartmouth.

Perfect rejoinder Ivytalk

[citdog]

You don't have a clue. Various Ivies deserves ranking almost every year. Harvard appears to be very good this year. Note that Yale clobbered Cal Poly last year at CP. If you really are in Missoula, I'm surprised you haven't been run out of town by now.

How so? You play only the patsy league and yourselves. We saw what Ivy football was all about when Princeton had the home and home with El Cid. It's not very good. The various excuses as to why y'all will not participate in the playoffs are stale and outdated. As far as my location there is no love for the Ivy league here. Perhaps you need to ask around.....

[Go Green]

How so? You play only the patsy league and yourselves. We saw what Ivy football was all about when Princeton had the home and home with El Cid. It's not very good. .

Yale-Army highlights: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mq8KrR7fgGs

[aceinthehole]

You don't have a clue. Various Ivies deserves ranking almost every year. Harvard appears to be very good this year. Note that Yale clobbered Cal Poly last year at CP. If you really are in Missoula, I'm surprised you haven't been run out of town by now.

And Yale beat Army this year - but Harvard and princeton haven't beat ANYONE outside of the PATRIOT/PIONEER in decades! The love for those 2 schools is beyond deliousional and is supported only by a slect few fans from the two schools and the PL.

[citdog]

Yale-Army highlights: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mq8KrR7fgGs

Green.... hudson high sucks. They will not even speak to us about scheduling again. It was a nice win for Mr. Calhoun's Alma Mater but that's all it was one game. Do you really think any of you could be competitive week in and week out in a good conference? If so I'll take your word for it but we will never know for SURE because you choose not to measure yourselves against the best of the subdivision. All one can go on are feelings since we don't KNOW.....