Bracketology

[FargoBison]

Things got a little weird in the FCS this week which definitely had a direct impact on this week's bracket....

Playoff Field
North Carolina A&T at William and Mary vs 1. NDSU
Richmond at EKU vs 8. Montana State


Jacksonville at Bethune-Cookman vs 5. CCU
Bryant at Fordham vs 4. UNH


SDSU at SELA vs 6. Jax State
Indiana State at Chattanooga vs 3. Illinois State


SFA at Cal Poly vs 7. EWU
Liberty at YSU vs 2. Nova


Autobids(11): Montana State, CCU, Nova, NCAT, NDSU, Bryant, Jax State, Fordham, Jacksonville, Chattanooga, SELA
At-Large(13): ISUR, UNH, EWU, Richmond, YSU, Indiana State, William and Mary, SFA, EKU, Cal Poly, Liberty, SDSU, Bethune-Cookman
Bubble: Montana, McNeese State, Albany, JMU, UNI, SIU, SC State, UCA, NAU, WCU, Sacred Heart, Bucknell

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Shouldn't Montana State have a higher seed compared to EWU if they win the BSC auto-bid?

[FargoBison]

Shouldn't Montana State have a higher seed compared to EWU if they win the BSC auto-bid?

Nope head-to-head would trump it. Especially winning at Bozeman.

EWU will get a bounce if VA comes back and they look like the EWU of old again offensively.

[JMUNJ08]

Pretty fair job I think!

My only thing is that someone will get beat up on in the MVFC out of the 4 at larges and be jumped by a bubble team but all at the moment are much more deserving.

Should be an interesting stretch run as their really is a muddled middle of about 20 teams with 5-3 ish records

[mmiller_34]

Things got a little weird in the FCS this week which definitely had a direct impact on this week's bracket....

Playoff Field
North Carolina A&T at William and Mary vs 1. NDSU
Richmond at EKU vs 8. Montana State


Jacksonville at Bethune-Cookman vs 5. CCU
Bryant at Fordham vs 4. UNH


SDSU at SELA vs 6. Jax State
Indiana State at Chattanooga vs 3. Illinois State


SFA at Cal Poly vs 7. EWU
Liberty at YSU vs 2. Nova


Autobids(11): Montana State, CCU, Nova, NCAT, NDSU, Bryant, Jax State, Fordham, Jacksonville, Chattanooga, SELA
At-Large(13): ISUR, UNH, EWU, Richmond, YSU, Indiana State, William and Mary, SFA, EKU, Cal Poly, Liberty, SDSU, Bethune-Cookman
Bubble: Montana, McNeese State, Albany, JMU, UNI, SIU, SC State, UCA, NAU, WCU, Sacred Heart, Bucknell

SDSU is likely not making the playoffs this year.

[FargoBison]

SDSU is likely not making the playoffs this year.

Probably but right now you are better then the bubble, with one more loss you will have a shot as well.

[kalm]

Nope head-to-head would trump it. Especially winning at Bozeman.

EWU will get a bounce if VA comes back and they look like the EWU of old again offensively.

Same thing could happen in the Big Sky. Montana still has EWU and MSU left. MSU has Poly, ISU, and Montana. Poly has MSU and ISU. ISU has Poly and MSU. EWU has Montana.

NAU is the only team that avoids all of the above on their remaining schedule.

Tons of toss up games...could get very interesting.

[knucklehead]

Nice job. A crazy part would be BCU possibly playing CCU in the playoffs yet again. Best is Liberty in.

[JMUNJ08]

Same thing could happen in the Big Sky. Montana still has EWU and MSU left. MSU has Poly, ISU, and Montana. Poly has MSU and ISU. ISU has Poly and MSU. EWU has Montana.

NAU is the only team that avoids all of the above on their remaining schedule.

Tons of toss up games...could get very interesting.

Sadly, NAU may get in if they win out at 9-3 in a 'power' conference with wins over EWU and Cal Poly. Their remaining schedule is pitiful... Any slip up and I think there are too many bubble teams to jump them especially with 3 questionable losses (N. Colorado and South Dakota already pulling them down)

[KPSUL]

Things got a little weird in the FCS this week which definitely had a direct impact on this week's bracket....

Playoff Field
North Carolina A&T at William and Mary vs 1. NDSU
Richmond at EKU vs 8. Montana State


Jacksonville at Bethune-Cookman vs 5. CCU
Bryant at Fordham vs 4. UNH


SDSU at SELA vs 6. Jax State
Indiana State at Chattanooga vs 3. Illinois State


SFA at Cal Poly vs 7. EWU
Liberty at YSU vs 2. Nova


Autobids(11): Montana State, CCU, Nova, NCAT, NDSU, Bryant, Jax State, Fordham, Jacksonville, Chattanooga, SELA
At-Large(13): ISUR, UNH, EWU, Richmond, YSU, Indiana State, William and Mary, SFA, EKU, Cal Poly, Liberty, SDSU, Bethune-Cookman
Bubble: Montana, McNeese State, Albany, JMU, UNI, SIU, SC State, UCA, NAU, WCU, Sacred Heart, Bucknell

I hope your wrong about UNH's seed #4. I'd rather go ice fishing at Leech Lake in -30 temps than watch UNH lose to NDSU in the Fargo Dome again. I'd rather have a lower seed that put us on the other side of the bracket.

[kalm]

Sadly, NAU may get in if they win out at 9-3 in a 'power' conference with wins over EWU and Cal Poly. Their remaining schedule is pitiful... Any slip up and I think there are too many bubble teams to jump them especially with 3 questionable losses (N. Colorado and South Dakota already pulling them down)

What would be sad about a 9-3 NAU getting in? They'd be as deserving as a 9-3 team from any 'power' conference other than the MVFC. Have you looked recently at your own 'powerful' schedule?xlolx

[Theee Catrabbit]

I think SDSU deserves to be in maybe. It's hard saying. Injuries have been a huge story for us this year. Schneider being out for us against YSU was a huge deal, whether anyone wants to admit it or not.If you only need to cover Weineke, then corralling Zenner just became a lot easier. If we don't have him against NDSU this week, I'm not sure we can make the horses go. Of course his backup will have all the snaps this week and he did start to look comfortable in the YSU game. It's no secret that Lujan's arm strength is being exposed a bit, I bet Weineke's YAC numbers are half of his total.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

I think SDSU deserves to be in maybe. It's hard saying. Injuries have been a huge story for us this year. Schneider being out for us against YSU was a huge deal, whether anyone wants to admit it or not.If you only need to cover Weineke, then corralling Zenner just became a lot easier. If we don't have him against NDSU this week, I'm not sure we can make the horses go. Of course his backup will have all the snaps this week and he did start to look comfortable in the YSU game. It's no secret that Lujan's arm strength is being exposed a bit, I bet Weineke's YAC numbers are half of his total.


Will Sumner be back this week?

[FargoBison]

I give you the worst bracket of all time...

http://www.collegesportsmadness.com/fcs-football/bracketology

[FargoBison]

Nobowls.com bracket...

http://nobowls.com/images/week9.png

[AmsterBison]

What would be sad about a 9-3 NAU getting in? They'd be as deserving as a 9-3 team from any 'power' conference other than the MVFC. Have you looked recently at your own 'powerful' schedule?xlolx

I'd love to see NAU at NDSU in the playoffs. Used to play them every year.

[Theee Catrabbit]

Will Sumner be back this week?

No.

[IndyTreeFan]

I give you the worst bracket of all time...

http://www.collegesportsmadness.com/fcs-football/bracketology

Wow, that's just awful...

[Theee Catrabbit]

Nobowls.com bracket...

http://nobowls.com/images/week9.png

Oh....I see...it's the eliminate MVFC teams as quickly as we can bracket!

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

I give you the worst bracket of all time...

http://www.collegesportsmadness.com/fcs-football/bracketology


That is a classic one for sure.

[jmudukes1314]

Nobowls.com bracket...

http://nobowls.com/images/week9.png

Holy cow a Liberty-JMU playoff game in Harrisonburg would be EPIC. Easily the best atmosphere to see/be a part of in the first round. That would be awesome.

[BucBisonAtLarge]

I give you the worst bracket of all time...

http://www.collegesportsmadness.com/fcs-football/bracketology

Without going into a point-by-point assault on this bracket, the 'bracketologist' is basically ignoring the cardinal rule for the NCAA committee for the first round-- Regional games first. There is no seeding past #8.

[JMUNJ08]

What would be sad about a 9-3 NAU getting in? They'd be as deserving as a 9-3 team from any 'power' conference other than the MVFC. Have you looked recently at your own 'powerful' schedule?xlolx

Both NAU and IdSU would be fluffed up by some W's over TERRIBLE teams. NAU would have EWU and Cal Poly as their only real wins IMO. Cal Poly winning out would be more impressive with MSU as a scalp at 9-3. There are just going to be a bunch of 9-3/ 8-4 teams in the Big Sky who should be jumped by others due to quality of those W's

JMU's schedule to date is nothing special but if WE were to win out, we would have Albany, Richmond and W&M as W's over top 25 teams with our worse loss in OT against a Delaware team still capable of 5-6 wins...

[kalm]

Both NAU and IdSU would be fluffed up by some W's over TERRIBLE teams. NAU would have EWU and Cal Poly as their only real wins IMO. Cal Poly winning out would be more impressive with MSU as a scalp at 9-3. There are just going to be a bunch of 9-3/ 8-4 teams in the Big Sky who should be jumped by others due to quality of those W's

JMU's schedule to date is nothing special but if WE were to win out, we would have Albany, Richmond and W&M as W's over top 25 teams with our worse loss in OT against a Delaware team still capable of 5-6 wins...

Idaho State, Poly, and NAU all have higher SoS's than you and Richmond. You're current best win is Albany who does not not have a quality win yet. If you win out, Richmond and W&M will at best be 3 and 4 loss teams. Good wins for you but then they play each other the last week of the season, so one will fall even further.

With wins against Hampton, Moorehead State, Lafayette, URI, SFPA, and Lehigh one could easily make the case there's some schedule padding going on for the CAA as well.

I just think that any team who goes 8-4 from the CAA or BSC should at least be a bubble, and 9-3 team should be a lock for an at-large.

[rokamortis]

I just think that any team who goes 8-4 from the CAA or BSC should at least be a bubble, and 9-3 team should be a lock for an at-large.

Need to add in there that 9-3 shouldn't include sub-DI teams (DII, NAIA, Faith College / University).

[kalm]

Need to add in there that 9-3 shouldn't include sub-DI teams (DII, NAIA, Faith College / University).

No. 9-3 even with two DII's should be a lock.

[JMUNJ08]

Idaho State, Poly, and NAU all have higher SoS's than you and Richmond. You're current best win is Albany who does not not have a quality win yet. If you win out, Richmond and W&M will at best be 3 and 4 loss teams. Good wins for you but then they play each other the last week of the season, so one will fall even further.

With wins against Hampton, Moorehead State, Lafayette, URI, SFPA, and Lehigh one could easily make the case there's some schedule padding going on for the CAA as well.

I just think that any team who goes 8-4 from the CAA or BSC should at least be a bubble, and 9-3 team should be a lock for an at-large.

Playing multiple FBS teams can increase the SOS but not really help the perception that the rest of the schedule is quality. Also, JMU/ Albany are at least playing an all D-1 schedule, which, as rokamortis pointed out, should be factored in. Sorry, 9-3 (7-3 D-1) sounds great, but the unbalanced conference schedules really provide a lack of quality W's... Make fun of padding all you want, but at least those are the OOC games and not within (Elon/ URI be damned...)

[rokamortis]

No. 9-3 even with two DII's should be a lock.

7 DI wins screams bubble to me. Not just for the Big Sky, but any FCS team.

[ST_Lawson]

Oh....I see...it's the eliminate MVFC teams as quickly as we can bracket!

I like the # of MVFC teams, but potentially 3 MVFC vs MVFC matchups in the second round....xeyebrowx
Aren't we supposed to sort most of that out in the regular season?

[unigriff]

I like the # of MVFC teams, but potentially 3 MVFC vs MVFC matchups in the second round....xeyebrowx
Aren't we supposed to sort most of that out in the regular season?

Agreed. East coast bias.

[hktribefan]

7 DI wins screams bubble to me. Not just for the Big Sky, but any FCS team.

On a year where all teams play 11 games it would, but when most teams have a 12th game, 7 wins means 5 losses. UNH got in last year with 7 wins, but they opted for the 11 game schedule.

[rokamortis]

On a year where all teams play 11 games it would, but when most teams have a 12th game, 7 wins means 5 losses. UNH got in last year with 7 wins, but they opted for the 11 game schedule.

If I'm reading correctly you are saying that 7 wins doesn't even get you on the bubble. You may be right but I think there will be too many traditional playoff teams at 7 DI wins that a few will sneak in this year.

[Trumpster]

On a year where all teams play 11 games it would, but when most teams have a 12th game, 7 wins means 5 losses. UNH got in last year with 7 wins, but they opted for the 11 game schedule.

This, I think 4 loses is bubble, 5 is out. More important than wins.

[TypicalTribe]

If I'm reading correctly you are saying that 7 wins doesn't even get you on the bubble. You may be right but I think there will be too many traditional playoff teams at 7 DI wins that a few will sneak in this year.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The committee will not take a team with 5 losses unless it runs out of other options. Heard it from the chairman of the selection committee last year.

[rokamortis]

This, I think 4 loses is bubble, 5 is out. More important than wins.

There are teams that will have 7 DI wins but only 3-4 losses because they played sub DI teams.

[dbackjon]

Nope head-to-head would trump it. Especially winning at Bozeman.

EWU will get a bounce if VA comes back and they look like the EWU of old again offensively.


So then why is Cal Poly in but NAU on the bubble?

[FargoBison]

So then why is Cal Poly in but NAU on the bubble?

NAU has two very bad losses, not exactly the same thing.

I need to see more from NAU. I don't think EWU without VA is even a playoff team.

[Trumpster]

There are teams that will have 7 DI wins but only 3-4 losses because they played sub DI teams.

Like SHSU in 2012 you mean...

[dbackjon]

NAU has two very bad losses, not exactly the same thing.

I need to see more from NAU. I don't think EWU without VA is even a playoff team.


Yes, as I commented on another thread, NAU is the most up and down team in FCS this year.

EWU without VA is still a good team. Probably not top-10, but a playoff team.


Cal Poly lost by 18 to a very bad NMSU team. NAU lost by more in their FBS game, but to a much better team - a likely bowl team.
Cal Poly's other loss (besides NAU) was a thrashing by South Dakota State.


That being said, if NAU doesn't win out, it will be very hard to put them in the playoffs (depending of course on who they are up against). 8-4 MIGHT do it, but would definitely be on the bubble needing some help.

[kalm]

Playing multiple FBS teams can increase the SOS but not really help the perception that the rest of the schedule is quality. Also, JMU/ Albany are at least playing an all D-1 schedule, which, as rokamortis pointed out, should be factored in. Sorry, 9-3 (7-3 D-1) sounds great, but the unbalanced conference schedules really provide a lack of quality W's... Make fun of padding all you want, but at least those are the OOC games and not within (Elon/ URI be damned...)

All D-I schedule should depend on the quality of the all D-I schedule. If the committee does their job.

If NAU wins out they'd be 8-3 D-I. If you're referring to IdSU they'd have wins over Poly and MSU.

[FargoBison]

Yes, as I commented on another thread, NAU is the most up and down team in FCS this year.

EWU without VA is still a good team. Probably not top-10, but a playoff team.


Cal Poly lost by 18 to a very bad NMSU team. NAU lost by more in their FBS game, but to a much better team - a likely bowl team.
Cal Poly's other loss (besides NAU) was a thrashing by South Dakota State.


That being said, if NAU doesn't win out, it will be very hard to put them in the playoffs (depending of course on who they are up against). 8-4 MIGHT do it, but would definitely be on the bubble needing some help.

The thing with Cal Poly is that they had some issue with players to start the season, they seem to be getting better each week.

NAU is close to being in and really they control their own destiny, they have four very winnable games to close the season. I agree if they lose they are very much on the bubble with that non-DI game.

[kalm]

Just taking a quick look at the Big South, MEAC, OVC, and NEC, the second place team really needs to win out to have a shot at an at-large and for the most part that does't seem likely for the Liberty's, SCSU, NCA&T's, etc. of the world.

A further question would be does CCU deserve a seed coming out of a one bid conference?

[JMUNJ08]

All D-I schedule should depend on the quality of the all D-I schedule. If the committee does their job.

If NAU wins out they'd be 8-3 D-I. If you're referring to IdSU they'd have wins over Poly and MSU.

Key word there and I think we have seen that through some questionable adds in recent years from playoff participants in the OVC/ MEAC where more D1 wins meant a spot in the dance over 'Power Conference' bubble teams (Maine a few years back as well when they had 8 vs 7 for someone I forgot at the moment in the CAA)

[Tribe4SF]

Key word there and I think we have seen that through some questionable adds in recent years from playoff participants in the OVC/ MEAC where more D1 wins meant a spot in the dance over 'Power Conference' bubble teams (Maine a few years back as well when they had 8 vs 7 for someone I forgot at the moment in the CAA)

That was W&M who only scheduled 11 games that year. Maine's extra win was over Iona, who had announced the end of their program before the year was done.

[jmrepak]

Just taking a quick look at the Big South, MEAC, OVC, and NEC, the second place team really needs to win out to have a shot at an at-large and for the most part that does't seem likely for the Liberty's, SCSU, NCA&T's, etc. of the world.

A further question would be does CCU deserve a seed coming out of a one bid conference?
Seriously, still with this sh--? I'm so tired of hearing it. Winning out should and will give CCU a top 5 seed. We're still undefeated and EWU just got beat by an unranked. Plus, I see losses in the future of at least one of the Top 10 CAA and MVFC teams in the future. I just don't know what else Coastal has to do to prove they're legit. Yes, our schedule ended up being weaker than it was intended, and yes we let Furman play us closer than we should have. But I've watched more than a few games this year where top 10 teams needed last quarter heroics to snag the win and get out. Good teams always find a way to win and that is exactly what we do.

Our last loss was to last year's champ and just like everyone else we went to Fargo and got rolled. Now we are back and killing it and people are still trying to take a dump on us. I'm just tired of it. Last year should've earned the respect. We had the absolute worst travel schedule in the playoffs going over 10 thousand miles in two weeks and still took care of business until the quarters. We have one of the best linebackers in the country, a vastly improved defense, a well rounded and quick strike offense, decent special teams, will be one of only 2 or 3 undefeated teams in the country and should finish the season by beating a top 20 if not top 15 Liberty if they can hold on. I doubt we slip up and give a loss before the playoffs and if we don't I foresee a top 4 seed. I say bring it on.

[kalm]

Seriously, still with this sh--? I'm so tired of hearing it. Winning out should and will give CCU a top 5 seed. We're still undefeated and EWU just got beat by an unranked. Plus, I see losses in the future of at least one of the Top 10 CAA and MVFC teams in the future. I just don't know what else Coastal has to do to prove they're legit. Yes, our schedule ended up being weaker than it was intended, and yes we let Furman play us closer than we should have. But I've watched more than a few games this year where top 10 teams needed last quarter heroics to snag the win and get out. Good teams always find a way to win and that is exactly what we do.

Our last loss was to last year's champ and just like everyone else we went to Fargo and got rolled. Now we are back and killing it and people are still trying to take a dump on us. I'm just tired of it. Last year should've earned the respect. We had the absolute worst travel schedule in the playoffs going over 10 thousand miles in two weeks and still took care of business until the quarters. We have one of the best linebackers in the country, a vastly improved defense, a well rounded and quick strike offense, decent special teams, will be one of only 2 or 3 undefeated teams in the country and should finish the season by beating a top 20 if not top 15 Liberty if they can hold on. I doubt we slip up and give a loss before the playoffs and if we don't I foresee a top 4 seed. I say bring it on.

So should seeding be based on last year, teams that should have been better on your schedule, really good linebackers, and only record or should they be based on a combination of record, quality wins, and schedule strength?

Relax, these are just questions...

[jmrepak]

So should seeding be based on last year, teams that should have been better on your schedule, really good linebackers, and only record or should they be based on a combination of record, quality wins, and schedule strength?

Relax, these are just questions...
My response quoted you but I've been seeing it all day and am just tired of seeing like everyone else around us have these awesome schedules and wins. EWU has 1 quality win (Mont. st.) and 1 bad loss (NAU). Nova had a very good schedule And deserves #2. Not arguing that . UNH has a good UR win. Some would claim W&M is quality as well but their schedule is weak and they'll end with 4 or 5 losses. I'll. St. Schedule isn't bad either. Jax St Has a weak schedule as well, but they do have a challenge coming with EKU. My point is that there are a lot of so-so schedules out there IMO so you can't tell me that part of the rankings and seeding sentiments don't have anything to do with legacy.

[WileECoyote06]

Key word there and I think we have seen that through some questionable adds in recent years from playoff participants in the OVC/ MEAC where more D1 wins meant a spot in the dance over 'Power Conference' bubble teams (Maine a few years back as well when they had 8 vs 7 for someone I forgot at the moment in the CAA)

If I remember correctly, all of those years the MEAC/OVC team was co-champion of the conference.

[WileECoyote06]

My response quoted you but I've been seeing it all day and am just tired of seeing like everyone else around us have these awesome schedules and wins. EWU has 1 quality win (Mont. st.) and 1 bad loss (NAU). Nova had a very good schedule And deserves #2. Not arguing that . UNH has a good UR win. Some would claim W&M is quality as well but their schedule is weak and they'll end with 4 or 5 losses. I'll. St. Schedule isn't bad either. Jax St Has a weak schedule as well, but they do have a challenge coming with EKU. My point is that there are a lot of so-so schedules out there IMO so you can't tell me that part of the rankings and seeding sentiments don't have anything to do with legacy.

Don't worry about it man. Get a win over Liberty, and you've already got a win over Presbyterian. Your AD set up a schedule like it's supposed to be set up; taking on teams in states close to you, that are in other conferences (MEAC, SoCon, CAA). This allows you several arguments if you find yourself on the playoff bubble. Transitivity shouldn't really count in comparing football teams, but when it comes to playoff selections it does in DII and I suspect strongly that it counts in FCS. Also, don't sleep; if A&T and SCSU tie for the MEAC crown you'll also have two wins over another conference's champion. That is a strong argument for a seed, just like Villanova's defeat of Fordham is a strong argument for a seed.

But alas, Liberty just has to hold the line, their schedule is currently 25. If they finish 4 - 1; they're in. And you get your seed. I'm calling it right now.

[rokamortis]

So should seeding be based on last year, teams that should have been better on your schedule, really good linebackers, and only record or should they be based on a combination of record, quality wins, and schedule strength?

Relax, these are just questions...

No, the seedings should be based on SoS propped up by FBS losses, records bolstered by sub-DI games, and ancient history of a perceived 'power conference'.

[rokamortis]

Just taking a quick look at the Big South, MEAC, OVC, and NEC, the second place team really needs to win out to have a shot at an at-large and for the most part that does't seem likely for the Liberty's, SCSU, NCA&T's, etc. of the world.

A further question would be does CCU deserve a seed coming out of a one bid conference?

What does the number of bids matter? We are also half the size of some of the other conferences. That has no impact on seedings. What should matter is conference strength, the Big South is the second rated conference by the composite ratings. Currently there are no teams with losing records.

You are reaching for anything you can to try and bolster your team and Big Sky. Good luck with that.

[kalm]

My response quoted you but I've been seeing it all day and am just tired of seeing like everyone else around us have these awesome schedules and wins. EWU has 1 quality win (Mont. st.) and 1 bad loss (NAU). Nova had a very good schedule And deserves #2. Not arguing that . UNH has a good UR win. Some would claim W&M is quality as well but their schedule is weak and they'll end with 4 or 5 losses. I'll. St. Schedule isn't bad either. Jax St Has a weak schedule as well, but they do have a challenge coming with EKU. My point is that there are a lot of so-so schedules out there IMO so you can't tell me that part of the rankings and seeding sentiments don't have anything to do with legacy.

I'm sorry, but with Penn, Morgan State, URI, and Maine on Nova's schedule so far, it is clearly no better than EWU's. If you're into computers, it's 160 compared to EWU's 149. I'm also fine with calling the UR and W&M wins good as long as we get to apply the same to ISU who's SoS is rated well ahead of Richmond and within 4 spots of W&M.

But unless MSU craps the bed, that win will be better than any wins on Nova's schedule, and since we're looking ahead, there's still a chance that we'll end up with wins against 4 ranked opponents by the end. That being said, I have Nova at #2 as well.

NAU isn't a bad loss as it stands right now, and they will more than likely finish the season with at least 8 wins and probably finish 9-3.

You can call all of these schedules so-so but they are all significantly better than Coastal's.

Take the emotion out, and this can be a fun discussion.

[kalm]

What does the number of bids matter? We are also half the size of some of the other conferences. That has no impact on seedings. What should matter is conference strength, the Big South is the second rated conference by the composite ratings. Currently there are no teams with losing records.

You are reaching for anything you can to try and bolster your team and Big Sky. Good luck with that.

Number of bids won't matter with seeding, it's just another indication of a weak SoS. Since you're using Massey, the Big South is ranked just ahead of the Patriot and just behind the Southland in SoS. The smaller number of teams can skew things both directions and I'm guessing that if you run the table and as the rest of the conference plays out, the Big South will end up ranked behind both the CAA and Big Sky.

But yes, most of us are trying to bolster the strength of our team and conference because we're most familiar with them.

[rokamortis]

I'm sorry, but with Penn, Morgan State, URI, and Maine on Nova's schedule so far, it is clearly no better than EWU's. If you're into computers, it's 160 compared to EWU's 149. I'm also fine with calling the UR and W&M wins good as long as we get to apply the same to ISU who's SoS is rated well ahead of Richmond and within 4 spots of W&M.


You can't use SoS to measure an opponent - only their schedule and even then it is an incredibly flawed metric. Just because someone played a really good team doesn't make them a really good team. Many SoS don't even include the sub DI games so that makes it even worse.

[rokamortis]

Number of bids won't matter with seeding, it's just another indication of a weak SoS. Since you're using Massey, the Big South is ranked just ahead of the Patriot and just behind the Southland in SoS. The smaller number of teams can skew things both directions and I'm guessing that if you run the table and as the rest of the conference plays out, the Big South will ranked behind both the CAA and Big Sky.

But yes, most of us are trying to bolster the strength of our team and conference because we're most familiar with them.

I said I was using composite. Massey Composite or GPI - take your pick. I don't believe in using one model but an average of models and I've already responded about SoS.

With Massey Composite you have

MVFC
Big South
CAA
Big Sky
Southern
Southland
OVC
PL
NEC
Ivy
MEAC
SWAC
Pioneer

[rokamortis]

Number of bids won't matter with seeding, it's just another indication of a weak SoS. Since you're using Massey, the Big South is ranked just ahead of the Patriot and just behind the Southland in SoS. The smaller number of teams can skew things both directions and I'm guessing that if you run the table and as the rest of the conference plays out, the Big South will end up ranked behind both the CAA and Big Sky.

But yes, most of us are trying to bolster the strength of our team and conference because we're most familiar with them.

Number of bids doesn't indicate SoS. It indicates who the committee feels should be in the field, it is a political process and in no way a reliable indicator of SoS.

[kalm]

You can't use SoS to measure an opponent - only their schedule and even then it is an incredibly flawed metric. Just because someone played a really good team doesn't make them a really good team. Many SoS don't even include the sub DI games so that makes it even worse.

I'm not a huge computer guy either, but just a simple eyeball test of schedule strength will tell you that all three are similar. And ISU passes the eyeball test on the field as well.

[kalm]

I said I was using composite. Massey Composite or GPI - take your pick. I don't believe in using one model but an average of models and I've already responded about SoS.

With Massey Composite you have

MVFC
Big South
CAA
Big Sky
Southern
Southland
OVC
PL
NEC
Ivy
MEAC
SWAC
Pioneer

I'd run away from SoS too. There are reasons for teams from weaker conferences not getting as many seeds and for 10-1 Lehigh's not getting at-larges. You may not like it, but SoS is very important.

[bodoyle]

Just to poke the bear a little. From Randy on our site:

We don't play anybody, our opponents' W/L is terrible, right?

Well, let's take a look at the rest of the current Sports Network top 10's opponent W/L record to date. Teams they've defeated who have winning records are in parenthesis beside each team.

NDSU 23-42 (Indiana St., Southern Illinois, Montana)
UNH 27-27 (Richmond, Dartmouth, William & Mary)
CCU 29-35 (North Carolina A&T, South Carolina State, Presbyterian, Charleston Southern)
Nova 28-34 (James Madison, Fordham, William & Mary)
Jacksonville St. 30-28 (Chattanooga)
EWU 34-39 (Montana State, Idaho State)
Illinois St. 23-34 (South Dakota State, Indiana State)
Montana St. 31-41 (Central Arkansas)
McNeese St. 22-36 (NONE)
Fordham 18-42 (NONE)

As I said earlier, if you take out Fordham's loss to Nova, their opponent W/L drops to a pathetic 11-41. Take out Fordham from Nova's wins, and Nova's opponent W/L drops to 21-33. Jacksonville St., EWU, Montana St., and McNeese St. have all played sub/non-D1 teams. EWU played a friggin' NAIA team, and Illinois St. played a SWAC team (which honestly might as well be a sub-D1 team).

[kalm]

Good info, thx!

[penguinpower]

Just to poke the bear a little. From Randy on our site:

We don't play anybody, our opponents' W/L is terrible, right?

Well, let's take a look at the rest of the current Sports Network top 10's opponent W/L record to date. Teams they've defeated who have winning records are in parenthesis beside each team.

NDSU 23-42 (Indiana St., Southern Illinois, Montana)
UNH 27-27 (Richmond, Dartmouth, William & Mary)
CCU 29-35 (North Carolina A&T, South Carolina State, Presbyterian, Charleston Southern)
Nova 28-34 (James Madison, Fordham, William & Mary)
Jacksonville St. 30-28 (Chattanooga)
EWU 34-39 (Montana State, Idaho State)
Illinois St. 23-34 (South Dakota State, Indiana State)
Montana St. 31-41 (Central Arkansas)
McNeese St. 22-36 (NONE)
Fordham 18-42 (NONE)

As I said earlier, if you take out Fordham's loss to Nova, their opponent W/L drops to a pathetic 11-41. Take out Fordham from Nova's wins, and Nova's opponent W/L drops to 21-33. Jacksonville St., EWU, Montana St., and McNeese St. have all played sub/non-D1 teams. EWU played a friggin' NAIA team, and Illinois St. played a SWAC team (which honestly might as well be a sub-D1 team).

Wins are easy to come by in a soft conference.

[rokamortis]

I'm not a huge computer guy either, but just a simple eyeball test of schedule strength will tell you that all three are similar. And ISU passes the eyeball test on the field as well.

I'm fine with computers and computer rankings (just need to be able to evaluate) - just SoS is a bad metric to base all of your arguments on.

[rokamortis]

I'd run away from SoS too. There are reasons for teams from weaker conferences not getting as many seeds and for 10-1 Lehigh's not getting at-larges. You may not like it, but SoS is very important.

I'm not running away from SoS - just letting you know you have planted your flag in a soft spot.

The Big South has had multiple teams in inthe last 4 years, so I'm not worried about it. If you look at other factors like number of teams, then I can see why we wouldn't get as many teams as say a CAA or Big Sky.

The Big South is the second rated conference, I'm not worried about the overall strength.

[rokamortis]

Wins are easy to come by in a soft conference.

So who has a soft conference? The Big South is just behind the MVFC in the composite rankings and OOC wins. In fact, no team currently has a losing record.

[JMUNJ08]

Wins are easy to come by in a soft conference.

At least CCU went and played SOMEONE out of conference. Jeez, they beat 2 of the 3 top MEAC teams (yes, I know its the MEAC but still) for some quality W's. These teams may well be in the playoffs. Plus, they have 5, yes 5 road W's already. YSU only will play 5 total.... Don't forget that El Cid and Furman were not suppose to be doormats, not Coastal's fault

[chattownmocs]

Chattanooga vs LIberty

Chattanooga at Coastal

Chattanooga at Jacksonville State

Chattanooga at NDSU

Chattanooga vs Richmond

Epic

[kalm]

I'm not running away from SoS - just letting you know you have planted your flag in a soft spot.

The Big South has had multiple teams in inthe last 4 years, so I'm not worried about it. If you look at other factors like number of teams, then I can see why we wouldn't get as many teams as say a CAA or Big Sky.

The Big South is the second rated conference, I'm not worried about the overall strength.

Yes, SOS is a soft spot...lol

[rokamortis]

Yes, SOS is a soft spot...lol

It is,especially when it doesn't include sub DI teams and when you try to use it to justify 'good losses' like you do. But just keep beating that drum...

[kalm]

It is,especially when it doesn't include sub DI teams and when you try to use it to justify 'good losses' like you do. But just keep beating that drum...

I can think of 4 instances in the last 5 years where the BSC alone got a top 5 seed with a sub D1 on the schedule.

There are similar examples where the quality of losses obviously played a roll.

So welcome to the FCS!

[Sycamore62]

Just to poke the bear a little. From Randy on our site:

We don't play anybody, our opponents' W/L is terrible, right?

Well, let's take a look at the rest of the current Sports Network top 10's opponent W/L record to date. Teams they've defeated who have winning records are in parenthesis beside each team.

NDSU 23-42 (Indiana St., Southern Illinois, Montana)
UNH 27-27 (Richmond, Dartmouth, William & Mary)
CCU 29-35 (North Carolina A&T, South Carolina State, Presbyterian, Charleston Southern)
Nova 28-34 (James Madison, Fordham, William & Mary)
Jacksonville St. 30-28 (Chattanooga)
EWU 34-39 (Montana State, Idaho State)
Illinois St. 23-34 (South Dakota State, Indiana State)
Montana St. 31-41 (Central Arkansas)
McNeese St. 22-36 (NONE)
Fordham 18-42 (NONE)

As I said earlier, if you take out Fordham's loss to Nova, their opponent W/L drops to a pathetic 11-41. Take out Fordham from Nova's wins, and Nova's opponent W/L drops to 21-33. Jacksonville St., EWU, Montana St., and McNeese St. have all played sub/non-D1 teams. EWU played a friggin' NAIA team, and Illinois St. played a SWAC team (which honestly might as well be a sub-D1 team).

Yes ISUr played a SWAC team but weren't they running the oopty oop?

[rokamortis]

I can think of 4 instances in the last 5 years where the BSC alone got a top 5 seed with a sub D1 on the schedule.

There are similar examples where the quality of losses obviously played a roll.

So welcome to the FCS!

Remember, we are discussing SoS specifically here. A single sub-DI isn't horrible but remember what I said, those teams are typically not included in the algorithms so makes SoS even more flawed.

To address your example, the committee looks at more than SoS and good losses when determining who to select for an at-large.

Welcome to the real world.

[kalm]

Remember, we are discussing SoS specifically here. A single sub-DI isn't horrible but remember what I said, those teams are typically not included in the algorithms so makes SoS even more flawed.

To address your example, the committee looks at more than SoS and good losses when determining who to select for an at-large.


Welcome to the real world.

Sure. And that's why I also referred to the eyeball test. For example, the typical CAA OOC has at least a couple of NEC, Patriot, Pioneer, and MEAC teams on.

Keep trying.

[dbackjon]

My response quoted you but I've been seeing it all day and am just tired of seeing like everyone else around us have these awesome schedules and wins. EWU has 1 quality win (Mont. st.) and 1 bad loss (NAU). Nova had a very good schedule And deserves #2. Not arguing that . UNH has a good UR win. Some would claim W&M is quality as well but their schedule is weak and they'll end with 4 or 5 losses. I'll. St. Schedule isn't bad either. Jax St Has a weak schedule as well, but they do have a challenge coming with EKU. My point is that there are a lot of so-so schedules out there IMO so you can't tell me that part of the rankings and seeding sentiments don't have anything to do with legacy.


A loss on the road to a 5-3 team that now has beaten two top-25 teams is a bad loss? If NAU finishes 9-3 or 8-4, are you still going to say that it is a bad loss?

[rokamortis]

Keep trying.

To help you see the error of your flawed arguments? It is futile. You know you are wrong but keep at it hoping to convince others.

[kalm]

To help you see the error of your flawed arguments? It is futile. You know you are wrong but keep at it hoping to convince others.

Wrong because I asked some questions? I'm sorry for asking questions.

I just wish you'd quit putting down other teams to prop up the image of your own.

CCU is undefeated and ranked in the top 5! They have a shot at a seed. Relax and enjoy the ride...

[rokamortis]

Wrong because I asked some questions? I'm sorry for asking questions.

I just wish you'd quit putting down other teams to prop up the image of your own.

CCU is undefeated and ranked in the top 5! They have a shot at a seed. Relax and enjoy the ride...

Nice one! Although I'm not putting down any teams. xeyebrowx

[REALBird]

Not even sure what that means, but the @$$ kicking Mississippi Valley State got was based on not wanting to share video with us. I'm a firm believer in not running up the score because you can, but in that instance I almost wish we had put up a few more TD's for good measure. If it were the playoffs and they didn't want to share video, great. But GAME #1 of the season. It's not like they played Alabama and opened their entire playbook. They beat New Orleans Gulf Coast M&F (Mining and Fishing), and didn't share tape. WTH? LOL.

[UNIFanSince1983]

Okay so as some of you may know I used to do an FCS BCS standings for fun. I did it again this week. I feel like the BCS was a pretty good system if they had used it to select a playoff field instead of just two teams. So here I have put it together to get the 24 playoff teams as of right now. This doesn't project going forward just where we stand right now. I can make a new thread about my BCS ratings if there are enough people asking about it that I can explain a little bit more.

The Top 8:
1) NDSU
2) Villanova
3) New Hampshire
4) Coastal Carolina
5) Jacksonville St.
6) Illinois St.
7) E Washington
8) Youngstown St.

Remaining Auto Qualifiers (just used the autos from the first post in here):
NC A&T
Montana St.
Bryant
Fordham
Jacksonville
Chattanooga
SE Louisana

Remaining At-Large teams:
McNeese St.
Montana
Richmond
Indiana St.
S Dakota St.
Northern Iowa
E Kentucky
William & Mary
Bethune-Cookman

So that is the 24 based on the FCS BCS standings as of today. Again I can post the whole standings or make a new post about this, but thought I would add this here. It is late in the week, but I had a slow day today so thought why not.

[bryantbd]

Things got a little weird in the FCS this week which definitely had a direct impact on this week's bracket....

Playoff Field
North Carolina A&T at William and Mary vs 1. NDSU
Richmond at EKU vs 8. Montana State


Jacksonville at Bethune-Cookman vs 5. CCU
Bryant at Fordham vs 4. UNH


SDSU at SELA vs 6. Jax State
Indiana State at Chattanooga vs 3. Illinois State


SFA at Cal Poly vs 7. EWU
Liberty at YSU vs 2. Nova


Autobids(11): Montana State, CCU, Nova, NCAT, NDSU, Bryant, Jax State, Fordham, Jacksonville, Chattanooga, SELA
At-Large(13): ISUR, UNH, EWU, Richmond, YSU, Indiana State, William and Mary, SFA, EKU, Cal Poly, Liberty, SDSU, Bethune-Cookman
Bubble: Montana, McNeese State, Albany, JMU, UNI, SIU, SC State, UCA, NAU, WCU, Sacred Heart, Bucknell

why not Fordham at Bryant?

[FargoBison]

why not Fordham at Bryant?

Well it is all about bidding, I think Fordham would bid more for the game.