GPI

[knucklehead]

Updated GPI is an interesting look at the standings especially the conferences. Big South looking strong.
http://www.collegesportingnews.com/articles/20141021gpi.htm


Detail

http://www.collegesportingnews.com/articles/20141021gpi.txt

[Theee Catrabbit]

I'm assuming that is sarcasm.

[GannonFan]

I'm assuming that is sarcasm.

Well, no one other than Ralph really takes the GPI seriously so yes, it probably is sarcasm.

[knucklehead]

I guess I missed that. The committee has made it clear that the gpi is and will continue to be a component for them in building the field. So yes. Someone important takes it serious. And if you aren't seeing the Big South getting stronger, you aren't paying attention.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I guess I missed that. The committee has made it clear that the gpi is and will continue to be a component for them in building the field. So yes. Someone important takes it serious. And if you aren't seeing the Big South getting stronger, you aren't paying attention.

The committee is also allowed to consult psychics, too. It's not against the rules.

[knucklehead]

What's the issue with the gpi?

[thebootfitter]

What's the issue with the gpi?
Probably the only real issue is that it ignores the arguably best human poll (AGS) in the index.

Some folks also take issue with the weighting of human vs computer models.

[MTfan4life]

I guess I missed that. The committee has made it clear that the gpi is and will continue to be a component for them in building the field.

If this were true, there's no way a team from a computer ranking inferior conference like the MEAC would ever get an at-large bid. Last season South Carolina State was slotted behind 11 different teams who missed the playoffs in the final Groggy Proof of Impotence. The committee may say it influences them, but I think they only use the GPI printout as a placemat. As it should be used.

[robsnotes4u]

I guess I missed that. The committee has made it clear that the gpi is and will continue to be a component for them in building the field. So yes. Someone important takes it serious. And if you aren't seeing the Big South getting stronger, you aren't paying attention.

With their SRS model, do they even use GPI anymore? Does anyone have a link to the handbook that states the selection rules?

[BirdieJack]

Probably the only real issue is that it ignores the arguably best human poll (AGS) in the index.

Some folks also take issue with the weighting of human vs computer models.

Would it change the GPI all that much if they did take the AGS poll into consideration?


While I agree that the AGS Poll is the most accurate you have to admit it too has biases considering it's conducted through a fanboard.

[penguinpower]

With their SRS model, do they even use GPI anymore? Does anyone have a link to the handbook that states the selection rules?


The SRS is lacking any and all definition. It is opinion at this point.

Hell they didn't use it last year on the bubble teams at all. They let a 6 D1 Win SHSU team into the field over an 8 D1 win YSU team. And YSU had a higher SRS than SHSU so it is all bull**** anyway.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

With their SRS model, do they even use GPI anymore? Does anyone have a link to the handbook that states the selection rules?

The SRS model in college football has some issues due to: 1) lack of data points and 2) it's not a closed system: FCS teams can play D-II teams and FBS teams, which mess up the SRS rankings even more. All computer models suffer from this issue, but the SRS suffers from this more than others.

The SRS works best in a closed system, like the NFL (where the pool of potential teams to play are relatively small and fixed, and the season has 10 "out-of-conference" data points for comparison). The season is also longer, so the SRS gets better as the season goes along. The SRS is much better at predicting outcomes and gauging strength by playoff time.

Last season the SRS was almost published as an afterthought after the playoff field was selected. To me, the unstated reason for this was, even up until the final weekend, the SRS numbers looked so incorrect that they were unreleasable.

[penguinpower]

http://www.ncaa.com/fcs-selections-101

It is a dead link.

[robsnotes4u]

http://www.ncaa.com/fcs-selections-101

It is a dead link.

Yes same link I had

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[thebootfitter]

Would it change the GPI all that much if they did take the AGS poll into consideration?


While I agree that the AGS Poll is the most accurate you have to admit it too has biases considering it's conducted through a fanboard.

I'm sure it would have some influence, but I haven't ever investigated how much.

I don't believe you can argue that the AGS poll has any more or less bias than a media poll. Sure, all human polls inherently have some bias, there's no getting around that. But I challenge you to provide evidence that AGS is biased _because_ it is a poll conducted by fans. I think what you'd find is that it is unbiased relative to the coaches' and media polls. (In fact, I think Ursus has posted a few random stats before regarding how if anything, fans are biased against their own teams and their own conferences.)

AGS is a community of generally intelligent and well-educated fans of FCS. It's no surprise that it tends to be a good indicator or top teams.

[TypicalTribe]

So, the field as of today would be:

Big Sky - EWU, Montana, Montana St
Big South - Coastal Carolina
CAA - UNH, Villanova, Richmond
MEAC - Bethune
MVFC - NDSU, Ill St, SDSU, Indy St, YSU, SIU, Mo St
NEC - Bryant
OVC - Jax State, EKU
Patriot - Fordham
Pioneer - Jacksonville
SoCon - Chatty
Southland - SELA, McNeese, NW St

Hard to argue with any of that, honestly. I've left UNI out even though they are 14T simply because they are below .500. Just missing at-large spots are Idaho St, Liberty and William & Mary. Sounds about right.

[BisonFan02]

So, the field as of today would be:

Big Sky - EWU, Montana, Montana St
Big South - Coastal Carolina
CAA - UNH, Villanova, Richmond
MEAC - Bethune
MVFC - NDSU, Ill St, SDSU, Indy St, YSU, SIU, Mo St
NEC - Bryant
OVC - Jax State, EKU
Patriot - Fordham
Pioneer - Jacksonville
SoCon - Chatty
Southland - SELA, McNeese, NW St

Hard to argue with any of that, honestly. I've left UNI out even though they are 14T simply because they are below .500. Just missing at-large spots are Idaho St, Liberty and William & Mary. Sounds about right.

7 teams from the MVFC? I'd take it, but we will probably get 2-3.

[WileECoyote06]

So, the field as of today would be:

Big Sky - EWU, Montana, Montana St
Big South - Coastal Carolina
CAA - UNH, Villanova, Richmond
MEAC - Bethune
MVFC - NDSU, Ill St, SDSU, Indy St, YSU, SIU, Mo St
NEC - Bryant
OVC - Jax State, EKU
Patriot - Fordham
Pioneer - Jacksonville
SoCon - Chatty
Southland - SELA, McNeese, NW St

Hard to argue with any of that, honestly. I've left UNI out even though they are 14T simply because they are below .500. Just missing at-large spots are Idaho St, Liberty and William & Mary. Sounds about right.

If the GPI is indeed used, it would be hard to deny an at-large to the Big South, based on their out-of-conference performance. The same argument used for including four or more MVFC teams could be used to to include at least one more Big South team; ie we only lose to each other.

[knucklehead]

I said they apparently used it as a tool last year not then end all be all.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Would it change the GPI all that much if they did take the AGS poll into consideration?


While I agree that the AGS Poll is the most accurate you have to admit it too has biases considering it's conducted through a fanboard.

Again with this ****? Then why is it every year this poll almost exactly matches the selections and the GPI and other polls are always further away from the what the committee selects?

There are biases in every ranking system out there so to say that AGS is the one that has biases is silly at best. This poll is probably the least biased one out there as it doesn't come from a fan board it comes from a group of experts that discuss all these teams nearly every day.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I'm sure it would have some influence, but I haven't ever investigated how much.

I don't believe you can argue that the AGS poll has any more or less bias than a media poll. Sure, all human polls inherently have some bias, there's no getting around that. But I challenge you to provide evidence that AGS is biased _because_ it is a poll conducted by fans. I think what you'd find is that it is unbiased relative to the coaches' and media polls. (In fact, I think Ursus has posted a few random stats before regarding how if anything, fans are biased against their own teams and their own conferences.)

AGS is a community of generally intelligent and well-educated fans of FCS. It's no surprise that it tends to be a good indicator or top teams.

I guess I should have just read the next page before responding...again. Nicely done booty cuz you are dead on with the layout there.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I said they apparently used it as a tool last year not then end all be all.

Knucky, it just isn't used or given much weight at all. AGS misses about 1 team a year and the other outlets miss 3 or 4 so I'd think that means they do their own thing and will look at other sources for some backup but in practice it just doesn't appear to be the foundation of anything they are doing.

Doesn't mean the BS isn't strong, it is looking good currently.

[knucklehead]

Thanks Ursus. I hear ya. Justt curious more than anything. And on the AGS poll, I think it is definately the one with the least issues by far. I love being involved. The biggest deal to kill bias is the sheer number of voters from so many teams / conferences.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Thanks Ursus. I hear ya. Justt curious more than anything. And on the AGS poll, I think it is definately the one with the least issues by far. I love being involved. The biggest deal to kill bias is the sheer number of voters from so many teams / conferences.

And the votes are vetted so if something looks fishy/homer style or just a mistake a voter doesn't get to just pass things through. Plus a lot of guys just freely post their ballots so it's a pretty open, honest, minimally biased deal around here.

[thebootfitter]

If the GPI is indeed used, it would be hard to deny an at-large to the Big South, based on their out-of-conference performance. The same argument used for including four or more MVFC teams could be used to to include at least one more Big South team; ie we only lose to each other.

Eh? This doesn't make any sense. There is only one Big South team in the top 25 in the GPI. Liberty comes in at 27.

[darell1976]

IF UND and Idaho State both run the table and end up 8-4 (UND) and 9-3 (ISU but with 7 DI wins) would one or both of them get in?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

IF UND and Idaho State both run the table

Stop right there.

[darell1976]

Stop right there.

UND plays 3 teams with a combined record of 3-20. They have 4-3 NAU at home, so that leaves the big one EWU in Cheney as the last possible hurdle at a playoff shot. ISU has Cal Poly at home and 3 teams with a combined 4-17, that leaves Montana State in Bozeman as their last hurdle for a playoff shot. I know it sounds like a fantasy, but thats why they play the game.

[kalm]

If the GPI is indeed used, it would be hard to deny an at-large to the Big South, based on their out-of-conference performance. The same argument used for including four or more MVFC teams could be used to to include at least one more Big South team; ie we only lose to each other.

Please list the quality OOC wins for the BSo.

[thebootfitter]

I know it sounds like a fantasy, but thats why they play the game.
They don't play the game because of fantasies, darell.

[AmsterBison]

Please list the quality OOC wins for the BSo.

Just so we recognize a quality win, maybe you could list the ones the Big Sky has? :)

Am I missing anybody for the Big Sky? SUNY-Stony Brook, Chadron State, Simon Fraser, Sam Houston State, Western Montana, New Mexico Highlands, Central Washington, South Dakota, Central Arkansas, Abilene Christian, Black Hills State, Incarnate Word, Menlo(?), Robert Morris, Fort Lewis, Houston Baptist, Western Oregon.

For the Big South, I've got wins against Lehigh, UNC-Charlotte, The Citadel (2), Furman (2), North Carolina A&T, Delaware State, South Carolina State, Elon, Florida A&M, Columbia, Western Carolina, Norfolk State, UNC-Charlotte, Bryant University, Appalachian State, VMI, Campbell, Newberry, Wofford.

[WileECoyote06]

Eh? This doesn't make any sense. There is only one Big South team in the top 25 in the GPI. Liberty comes in at 27.

But the conference strength is there; as the Big South is currently rated #2. 21-5 vs FCS: 7 - 2 SoCon; 5-0 MEAC; 1-1 CAA; 3-1 NEC; 0-1 MVFC; 1-0 Patriot; 1-0 Pioneer; 2-0 FCS Ind.

Heck we've seen crazier things happen in the awarding of at-large berths. If teams are evaluated properly then conference strength should be considered as a criteria despite rankings. Also, Liberty is favored in 4/5 of their remaining games so they will be in the top-25 by the time they hand out bids.

[citdog]

Would it change the GPI all that much if they did take the AGS poll into consideration?


While I agree that the AGS Poll is the most accurate you have to admit it too has biases considering it's conducted through a fanboard.

Says the guy who doesn't have enough posts to vote......

[Lehigh Football Nation]

But the conference strength is there; as the Big South is currently rated #2. 21-5 vs FCS: 7 - 2 SoCon; 5-0 MEAC; 1-1 CAA; 3-1 NEC; 0-1 MVFC; 1-0 Patriot; 1-0 Pioneer; 2-0 FCS Ind.

Heck we've seen crazier things happen in the awarding of at-large berths. If teams are evaluated properly then conference strength should be considered as a criteria despite rankings. Also, Liberty is favored in 4/5 of their remaining games so they will be in the top-25 by the time they hand out bids.

Once people inevitably start dropping the lower-echelon teams of the MVFC from their ballots, like Missouri State and UNI, Liberty will get in those polls and (as you point out) most likely stay there.

[WileECoyote06]

Please list the quality OOC wins for the BSo.

Quality wins is always a sliding scale anyway. They have two wins over top-40 teams (Bryant and Western Carolina) and a win over Appalachian State (FBS). Based on previous year's results who would have thought Furman , Wofford, or SC State would not be in the top-40, currently?

You can't ask the Big South to do much more than what they've done; and still be objective about their performance.

[RabidRabbit]

I haven't spent enough time to establish the merits of the GPI vs AGS, CS, Massey, Sagarin, etc. To me, especially the first couple of w eeks that it's published, it's about as good as the stuff used in the powder room. Heck, AGS struggles the first couple of weeks. Doubt it? Looked at your pre-season 25 recently? How many of last year's play-off teams were there? Likely to be many. There's a couple of real surprises to me so far.

How far Towson, EIU, SUU & SHSU and Furman have fallen.

I, and a lot of others, picked Ind St. to be bottom-feeder in the MVFC. They could still finish in the bottom half (same is true for all MVFC schools, altho NDSU & ISU(R) are close to assuring top half finish)

The GPI is not better, or worse than FCS Coaches, or SportsNetwork. It just is itself.

As a long-term (7+ years) AGS pollster, we fans here do a great poll. It's been fun to be a part of it for a long time.

[thebootfitter]

The GPI is not better, or worse than FCS Coaches, or SportsNetwork. It just is itself.

Depends. You could put some parameters around this to make it measurable and determine, per those parameters, which is "better."

For example, which of those three best predicts the at-large playoff teams? Or which of those three is the best predictor of head to head match ups between top 25 teams? Without looking up the stats, I feel pretty confident that the GPI performs better on those two measures than the Coaches' or SportsNetwork polls. (I'm also pretty confident that AGS performs even better.)

The GPI is simply a combination of several computer rating models and a couple human polls (Coaches' and SportsNetwork).

[BisonFan02]

I haven't spent enough time to establish the merits of the GPI vs AGS, CS, Massey, Sagarin, etc. To me, especially the first couple of w eeks that it's published, it's about as good as the stuff used in the powder room. Heck, AGS struggles the first couple of weeks. Doubt it? Looked at your pre-season 25 recently? How many of last year's play-off teams were there? Likely to be many. There's a couple of real surprises to me so far.

How far Towson, EIU, SUU & SHSU and Furman have fallen.

I, and a lot of others, picked Ind St. to be bottom-feeder in the MVFC. They could still finish in the bottom half (same is true for all MVFC schools, altho NDSU & ISU(R) are close to assuring top half finish)

The GPI is not better, or worse than FCS Coaches, or SportsNetwork. It just is itself.

As a long-term (7+ years) AGS pollster, we fans here do a great poll. It's been fun to be a part of it for a long time.

You are what you eat....and the GPI eats a lot of garbage. xlolx

[kalm]

Just so we recognize a quality win, maybe you could list the ones the Big Sky has? :)

Am I missing anybody for the Big Sky? SUNY-Stony Brook, Chadron State, Simon Fraser, Sam Houston State, Western Montana, New Mexico Highlands, Central Washington, South Dakota, Central Arkansas, Abilene Christian, Black Hills State, Incarnate Word, Menlo(?), Robert Morris, Fort Lewis, Houston Baptist, Western Oregon.

For the Big South, I've got wins against Lehigh, UNC-Charlotte, The Citadel (2), Furman (2), North Carolina A&T, Delaware State, South Carolina State, Elon, Florida A&M, Columbia, Western Carolina, Norfolk State, UNC-Charlotte, Bryant University, Appalachian State, VMI, Campbell, Newberry, Wofford.

There were three teams that impressed me in last year's playoff - JSU, CCU, and SELA. All three are from historically weaker conferences that appear to be on the rise. I wasn't smacking, I was genuinely curious as I want to see how tough their OOC schedule really is this year.

I think the MVFC is clearly better than every other conference, with the BSC and CAA on their own tier, followed by the Southern and Southland. Until the OVC and Big South consistently place teams in the quarters and semi's they are still a step behind until they prove otherwise.

Now, back to your question. Yes, you missed EWU's win over Montana State, and NAU's win over Cal Poly. Still, not a great OOC performance but on the other side of the coin you have seen Big Sky teams also face:

NDSU (twice)
UNI
SELA
SDSU
UCA
Missouri State
SFA
Montana State
Cal Poly
Washington
Stanford
Washington State
Oregon State
Fresno State
Nevada
Arizona State
Arizona
BYU
Utah
Utah State
UNLV
Wyoming
Colorado State
San Jose State
San Diego State
Cal

So excuse me if we're low in the win department compared to the Big South.

xlolx

[kalm]

Quality wins is always a sliding scale anyway. They have two wins over top-40 teams (Bryant and Western Carolina) and a win over Appalachian State (FBS). Based on previous year's results who would have thought Furman , Wofford, or SC State would not be in the top-40, currently?

You can't ask the Big South to do much more than what they've done; and still be objective about their performance.

Thanks for your reply and I agree. But you still need to consider SoS when considering which conferences are deserving of multiple bids.

[rokamortis]

There were three teams that impressed me in last year's playoff - JSU, CCU, and SELA. All three are from historically weaker conferences that appear to be on the rise. I wasn't smacking, I was genuinely curious as I want to see how tough their OOC schedule really is this year.

I think the MVFC is clearly better than every other conference, with the BSC and CAA on their own tier, followed by the Southern and Southland. Until the OVC and Big South consistently place teams in the quarters and semi's they are still a step behind until they prove otherwise.

Now, back to your question. Yes, you missed EWU's win over Montana State, and NAU's win over Cal Poly. Still, not a great OOC performance but on the other side of the coin you have seen Big Sky teams also face:

NDSU (twice)
UNI
SELA
SDSU
UCA
Missouri State
SFA
Montana State
Cal Poly
Washington
Stanford
Washington State
Oregon State
Fresno State
Nevada
Arizona State
Arizona
BYU
Utah
Utah State
UNLV
Wyoming
Colorado State
San Jose State
San Diego State
Cal

So excuse me if we're low in the win department compared to the Big South.

xlolx

But you got paid for those FBS games, so you got what you wanted out of that. But if it is important to you, the Big South has plenty of FBS games as well in a conference less than half the size of the Big Sky.

App State
NC State
North Carolina
Northern Illinios
Georgia
Mississippi
Vanderbilt
Wake Forest

[rokamortis]

I think the MVFC is clearly better than every other conference, with the BSC and CAA on their own tier, followed by the Southern and Southland. Until the OVC and Big South consistently place teams in the quarters and semi's they are still a step behind until they prove otherwise.


The Big South has had 4 years with an autobid and has won 5 games. Not too shabby. Especially for a 6 team conference. I agree that we need to earn the respect, but I think we are well on our way to doing so.



So excuse me if we're low in the win department compared to the Big South. xlolx
Big Sky is definitely stronger at the top than then the Big South - but at least this year the mid-bottom is way weaker. You can make all of the 'quality loss' arguments you want but at some point you are going to have to recognize that 0, 1, 2, and most 3 win teams at this point in the year just aren't very good.

[KPSUL]

The Big South has had 4 years with an autobid and has won 5 games. Not too shabby. Especially for a 6 team conference. I agree that we need to earn the respect, but I think we are well on our way to doing so.


Big Sky is definitely stronger at the top than then the Big South - but at least this year the mid-bottom is way weaker. You can make all of the 'quality loss' arguments you want but at some point you are going to have to recognize that 0, 1, 2, and most 3 win teams at this point in the year just aren't very good.

The Big South, with 6 teams, is just barely big enough to be called a conference. Liberty is going to jump to FBS at the first opportunity, at that point the only logical thing to do would be to merge Southcon anf BS into one conference. That would make a conference on a par with CAA, Big Sky, etc.

[rokamortis]

The Big South, with 6 teams, is just barely big enough to be called a conference. Liberty is going to jump to FBS at the first opportunity, at that point the only logical thing to do would be to merge Southcon anf BS into one conference. That would make a conference on a par with CAA, Big Sky, etc.

KSU is joining next year so that gives a little buffer.

I don't want any part of a conference where you don't play everyone. I don't think the SoCon wants any part of a merger - nothing in it for them.

What makes more sense would be to try to attract a couple of teams from other conferences. It may not work but I think it's a better option than a merger with the SoCon.

[KPSUL]

KSU is joining next year so that gives a little buffer.

I don't want any part of a conference where you don't play everyone. I don't think the SoCon wants any part of a merger - nothing in it for them.

What makes more sense would be to try to attract a couple of teams from other conferences. It may not work but I think it's a better option than a merger with the SoCon.

Who is KSU? The conference merge may not be politically feasible, but it would result in a solid conference that would likely represent the Southeast more effectively in the playoffs. I'm not sure where you are likely to steal any teams worth having other than from Southcon. The trend for schools in your part of the country is to try to jump to FBS instead.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Who is KSU? The conference merge may not be politically feasible, but it would result in a solid conference that would likely represent the Southeast more effectively in the playoffs. I'm not sure where you are likely to steal any teams worth having other than from Southcon. The trend for schools in your part of the country is to try to jump to FBS instead.

Does southcon mean SoCon? The Big South and The SoCon won't be merging so forget it unless some major landslide events forced that. KSU is Kennesaw State.

[OhioHen]

Now, back to your question. ... not a great OOC performance but on the other side of the coin you have seen Big Sky teams also face:

NDSU (twice)
.
.
.
Cal

So excuse me if we're low in the win department compared to the Big South.

xlolx

The question raised was about quality WINS - it doesn't matter who you PLAY - it matters who you BEAT.

[danefan]

The GPI is not and has never been used for anything officially other than the AQ bridge criteria for the PFL and NEC for one year that didn't apply to any team anyway.

The committee does its own ranking throughout the season

[kalm]

The question raised was about quality WINS - it doesn't matter who you PLAY - it matters who you BEAT.

The original questioned raised regarded the Big South, not the Big Sky, but of course it matters who you played...that's how 7-4 and 8-4 teams from power conferences get at-large bids over 8-3 and 9-2 teams with weaker schedules.

- - - Updated - - -


The question raised was about quality WINS - it doesn't matter who you PLAY - it matters who you BEAT.


The GPI is not and has never been used for anything officially other than the AQ bridge criteria for the PFL and NEC for one year that didn't apply to any team anyway.

The committee does its own ranking throughout the season

DF sighting!!!

[AmsterBison]

I think the MVFC is clearly better than every other conference, with the BSC and CAA on their own tier, followed by the Southern and Southland. Until the OVC and Big South consistently place teams in the quarters and semi's they are still a step behind until they prove otherwise.

Now, back to your question. Yes, you missed EWU's win over Montana State, and NAU's win over Cal Poly.


Well, I didn't count Big Sky's wins against other Big Sky teams even if they occurred as non-conference games because it makes no sense to use games where a conference teams loses to support the idea that your conference is on another level than another.

There are definitely some title contenders in the OVC, Big South, and Southland. Not sure about the NEC.

[danefan]

I'm always lurking......but I just can't resist me some GPI

[kalm]

Well, I didn't count Big Sky's wins against other Big Sky teams even if they occurred as non-conference games because it makes no sense to use games where a conference teams loses to support the idea that your conference is on another level than another.

There are definitely some title contenders in the OVC, Big South, and Southland. Not sure about the NEC.

Of course you don't. And those wins are equal to, if not better than any Big South OOC FCS wins.

[Sycamore62]

Maybe someone needs to start a poll/index that bumps teams that are most likely to get an autobid while being unranked to #24 up to however many spots it takes to get them all in.

[rokamortis]

Maybe someone needs to start a poll/index that bumps teams that are most likely to get an autobid while being unranked to #24 up to however many spots it takes to get them all in.

A few guys on CoastalFans had talked about a separate poll and that was one of my ideas. A poll where you try to predict the playoff field rather than rank the best teams. I think that would be an interesting exercise and could differentiate from the other polls.

[AmsterBison]

Of course you don't. And those wins are equal to, if not better than any Big South OOC FCS wins.

Not following your logic. I mean, why is NAU over Poly considered a good win? Seems like it is the opposite. South Dakota beat NAU and they have yet to win a conference game in the MVFC.

Just seems like the CAA and Big Sky get a lot more credit for in-conference wins than MVFC teams - I mean, how the heck is Illinois State undefeated and at #9?

Oh well, doesn't really matter, it's just something to discuss.

[kalm]

The question raised was about quality WINS - it doesn't matter who you PLAY - it matters who you BEAT.


Not following your logic. I mean, why is NAU over Poly considered a good win? Seems like it is the opposite. South Dakota beat NAU and they have yet to win a conference game in the MVFC.

Just seems like the CAA and Big Sky get a lot more credit for in-conference wins than MVFC teams - I mean, how the heck is Illinois State undefeated and at #9?

Oh well, doesn't really matter, it's just something to discuss.

IIRC, I have ISU at 5 or 6.