Coach's poll; Oct. 13.

[kdinva]

http://www.soconsports.com/fls/4000/socon/FCS/polls/2014_FCS_Coaches_Poll/index.html?DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=4000

[FordhamFan]

Whoa baby, big leap for my Rams. Can't say they really deserve it but I'll take it.

On a non-homer note, that top 5 is royally screwed up...EWU and Coastal above Nova and UNH? I can't wrap my mind around that.

[knucklehead]

Blah

[JMUNJ08]

SHSU with 57 more points than Liberty (only 1 vote) with the Flames having 1 more win and a FBS win vs. the 'Kats D2 loss....

At least JMU is as good as Alcorn State....

[JMUNJ08]

Also interesting is how SOLID EWU is at #2. They were right behind NDSU on all 26 ballots....

[tomq04]

Also interesting is how SOLID EWU is at #2. They were right behind NDSU on all 26 ballots....
Maybe the coaches hadn't heard the news? Or didn't care?

[Texas]

SHSU with 57 more points than Liberty (only 1 vote) with the Flames having 1 more win and a FBS win vs. the 'Kats D2 loss....

At least JMU is as good as Alcorn State....
It's almost like a team that had very little time to mesh is finally coming together over time. God forbid that happening because that would make no logical sense.

[kalm]

Whoa baby, big leap for my Rams. Can't say they really deserve it but I'll take it.

On a non-homer note, that top 5 is royally screwed up...EWU and Coastal above Nova and UNH? I can't wrap my mind around that.

UNH got soundly beat by Toledo, Nova lost a close one to Syracuse who is < Washington. Besides that, they have no better resume's than EWU with decent wins against a ranked MSU, a vastly improved ISU and a SHSU win which is suddenly looking decent. Coastal's resume is even worse.

[CraigS]

UNH got soundly beat by Toledo, Nova lost a close one to Syracuse who is < Washington. Besides that, they have no better resume's than EWU with decent wins against a ranked MSU, a vastly improved ISU and a SHSU win which is suddenly looking decent. Coastal's resume is even worse.


I think SHSU played EWU well for 3 1/2 qtrs. beat a decent Alabama St team (slaughtered by LSU) embarrassed at home (streak on the line) against D2 CSU-P....then turned it around in conference with a solid win last week against a good #4 McNeese team. As, this young team and new coaching staff come together SHSU will be back in the hunt(sville) of things....only 4 seniors (1 on offense) their current ranking of #24 may be a tad high...but the next several weeks will tell all.

[rokamortis]

UNH got soundly beat by Toledo, Nova lost a close one to Syracuse who is < Washington. Besides that, they have no better resume's than EWU with decent wins against a ranked MSU, a vastly improved ISU and a SHSU win which is suddenly looking decent. Coastal's resume is even worse.

Back away from the pipe. You guys have what, 1 quality win?

[tomq04]

Back away from the pipe. You guys have what, 1 quality win?

can someone pass the pipe?!?

[kalm]

Back away from the pipe. You guys have what, 1 quality win?

What do you disagree with?

[dudeitsaid]

What do you disagree with?
Shoot, it doesn't bother me if people rank them higher. I can't say we've done enough to definitively show we are better, especially as some of our wins are still in decidedly good or bad. Maybe SHSU and ISU are good wins. But I completely understand why the jury would still be out on that for a lot of people. I personally think both will be seen as quality wins by the end of the season.

That being said, I think it is just as reasonable, and you and others are far from high to have EWU 2 or 3.

I don't think a close conference win against a mediocre conference team means someone is mediocre, NDSU from two weeks ago a prime example.

For me personally, I really need to see more from our D on a consistent basis to think they are worthy of a top 5 ranking, especially without VA.

[UNHWildcat18]

UNH got soundly beat by Toledo, Nova lost a close one to Syracuse who is < Washington. Besides that, they have no better resume's than EWU with decent wins against a ranked MSU, a vastly improved ISU and a SHSU win which is suddenly looking decent. Coastal's resume is even worse.

Wish we could have that game back. We played awful in the second half.

[kalm]

Shoot, it doesn't bother me if people rank them higher. I can't say we've done enough to definitively show we are better, especially as some of our wins are still in decidedly good or bad. Maybe SHSU and ISU are good wins. But I completely understand why the jury would still be out on that for a lot of people. I personally think both will be seen as quality wins by the end of the season.

That being said, I think it is just as reasonable, and you and others are far from high to have EWU 2 or 3.

I don't think a close conference win against a mediocre conference team means someone is mediocre, NDSU from two weeks ago a prime example.

For me personally, I really need to see more from our D on a consistent basis to think they are worthy of a top 5 ranking, especially without VA.

It doesn't really bother me either. Just replying to the low information voters.

[rokamortis]

What do you disagree with?

Just most of the Big Sky / MVFC chest thumping. Trying to make every conference team seem like world beaters or pumping up OOC medicore wins. All conferences / teams have their warts and we should recognize that.

[kalm]

Just most of the Big Sky / MVFC chest thumping. Trying to make every conference team seem like world beaters or pumping up OOC medicore wins. All conferences / teams have their warts and we should recognize that.

I described the MSU and SHSU as "decent" wins. I said nothing about the rest of our conference games.

I agree that all conferences/teams have their warts and some more than others. The Big South certainly appears to be improving but part of that perception might also have to do with the decline in the Southern Conference. I have Coastal ranked in my top 10 because I think they're a very good team.

However, 3 MEAC's and two sub-.500 Southern Conference teams is not the same as what Nova, UNH, and EWU have faced and I don't think your conference schedule will be as strong as going through the CAA, MVFC, or Big Sky either.

Not chest thumping.

[rokamortis]

I described the MSU and SHSU as "decent" wins. I said nothing about the rest of our conference games.

I agree that all conferences/teams have their warts and some more than others. The Big South certainly appears to be improving but part of that perception might also have to do with the decline in the Southern Conference. I have Coastal ranked in my top 10 because I think they're a very good team.

However, 3 MEAC's and two sub-.500 Southern Conference teams is not the same as what Nova, UNH, and EWU have faced and I don't think your conference schedule will be as strong as going through the CAA, MVFC, or Big Sky either.

Not chest thumping.

I did lump your comments in with the some others, and while your comments aren't as voracious as others but I do think you are chest thumping a bit.

I'm not really in favor of beating down another team to try to make mine look better - hence the reason for my earlier comments. I recognize the weaknesses in Coastal's schedule but to fit in with others who only look at the positive of their team here is an alternative view from yours: Coastal has 7 FCS wins with no D-II teams to pad wins or FBS money games a) against strong FBS teams to increase strength or schedule or b) against weak teams hoping to play close or maybe even sneak a win to pump up our ego. Just a straight up FCS schedule, mostly on the road (we've only had 2 home games so far).

Full disclosure, I have Nova, UNH, and EWU all ranked ahead of Coastal so we may be on the same page. I like what those teams have done but they have pros and cons as well. Again, I don't want to disparage other teams but a convincing argument could be made against pretty much any team not named NDSU.

As far as the Big South goes - the FCS OOC record is 17-5. Teams include SoCon, MEAC, NEC, CAA, and perhaps others. The FCS OOC percentage is only second to the MVFC. Massey Composite lists the Big South as the second strongest after the MVFC, which is light years ahead of everyone. Also in the Massey Composite, the CAA has 3 teams ranked lower while the Big Sky has 5. 50% of the Big South teams are currently ranked in the AGS poll, the only conference with better representation is the MVFC. So yes, the Big South has improved top to bottom.

[FormerPokeCenter]

McNeese loses to Sam Houston, only falls to 10th Place.....Sam Houston checks in at #25.

This poll has no credibility if it ranks McNeese 15 places ahead of the team it just lost to...

[McNeese75]

McNeese loses to Sam Houston, only falls to 10th Place.....Sam Houston checks in at #25.

This poll has no credibility if it ranks McNeese 15 places ahead of the team it just lost to...

Using that logic, then the AGS polls is the same

[Cocky]

McNeese loses to Sam Houston, only falls to 10th Place.....Sam Houston checks in at #25.

This poll has no credibility if it ranks McNeese 15 places ahead of the team it just lost to...
SELA is 8 while SEMO is at the bottom of the orv.

[McNeese75]

SELA is 8 while SEMO is at the bottom of the orv.

Obviously SEMO and SHSU got lucky xeyebrowx

[FormerPokeCenter]

Using that logic, then the AGS polls is the same


Well, you know what kinda characters hang out on AGS!

[veinup]

coach is not poll

[Beachdude]

I did lump your comments in with the some others, and while your comments aren't as voracious as others but I do think you are chest thumping a bit.

I'm not really in favor of beating down another team to try to make mine look better - hence the reason for my earlier comments. I recognize the weaknesses in Coastal's schedule but to fit in with others who only look at the positive of their team here is an alternative view from yours: Coastal has 7 FCS wins with no D-II teams to pad wins or FBS money games a) against strong FBS teams to increase strength or schedule or b) against weak teams hoping to play close or maybe even sneak a win to pump up our ego. Just a straight up FCS schedule, mostly on the road (we've only had 2 home games so far).

Full disclosure, I have Nova, UNH, and EWU all ranked ahead of Coastal so we may be on the same page. I like what those teams have done but they have pros and cons as well. Again, I don't want to disparage other teams but a convincing argument could be made against pretty much any team not named NDSU.

As far as the Big South goes - the FCS OOC record is 17-5. Teams include SoCon, MEAC, NEC, CAA, and perhaps others. The FCS OOC percentage is only second to the MVFC. Massey Composite lists the Big South as the second strongest after the MVFC, which is light years ahead of everyone. Also in the Massey Composite, the CAA has 3 teams ranked lower while the Big Sky has 5. 50% of the Big South teams are currently ranked in the AGS poll, the only conference with better representation is the MVFC. So yes, the Big South has improved top to bottom.


xthumbsupx

[KPSUL]

UNH got soundly beat by Toledo, Nova lost a close one to Syracuse who is < Washington. Besides that, they have no better resume's than EWU with decent wins against a ranked MSU, a vastly improved ISU and a SHSU win which is suddenly looking decent. Coastal's resume is even worse.
You're right on target about Coastal, they may be a top five team, but it's going to take more the schedule they've played so far to validate it. I'm OK with EWU ranked 2nd over NOVA and UNH for the reasons you've mentioned. With 5-6 games to play I'd be surprised if more than one of the three team remain undefeated at the FCS level. That would clarify things.

[KPSUL]

xthumbsupx

Great post! Does it really make a difference whether a team is ranked 3 or 4 or 5 at this stage of the season? It's hard to see a scenario where Coastal would not face either UNH or NOVA in the playoffs. This question should be resolved on the field in an epic game!

[McNeese75]

coach is not poll

I think there are more than one voting so it probably is a poll.

[kalm]

I did lump your comments in with the some others, and while your comments aren't as voracious as others but I do think you are chest thumping a bit.

I'm not really in favor of beating down another team to try to make mine look better - hence the reason for my earlier comments. I recognize the weaknesses in Coastal's schedule but to fit in with others who only look at the positive of their team here is an alternative view from yours: Coastal has 7 FCS wins with no D-II teams to pad wins or FBS money games a) against strong FBS teams to increase strength or schedule or b) against weak teams hoping to play close or maybe even sneak a win to pump up our ego. Just a straight up FCS schedule, mostly on the road (we've only had 2 home games so far).

Full disclosure, I have Nova, UNH, and EWU all ranked ahead of Coastal so we may be on the same page. I like what those teams have done but they have pros and cons as well. Again, I don't want to disparage other teams but a convincing argument could be made against pretty much any team not named NDSU.

As far as the Big South goes - the FCS OOC record is 17-5. Teams include SoCon, MEAC, NEC, CAA, and perhaps others. The FCS OOC percentage is only second to the MVFC. Massey Composite lists the Big South as the second strongest after the MVFC, which is light years ahead of everyone. Also in the Massey Composite, the CAA has 3 teams ranked lower while the Big Sky has 5. 50% of the Big South teams are currently ranked in the AGS poll, the only conference with better representation is the MVFC. So yes, the Big South has improved top to bottom.

I'd make the same argument against Coastal if EWU was unranked.

You're making quite a few erroneous assumptions here.

FBS games have very little to do with ego or strength of schedule. They have virtually everything to do with $'s. That's why you see many teams actually scheduling not just one but two in the same season and dramatically hurting their chances to make the playoffs. It pays the bills.

DII games are almost always fillers and you're going to see them happen out West much more because unlike South Carolina, we don't have 35 FCS programs in-state. Nobody like scheduling them because they're bad for attendance and if it's a quality DII you run the risk of getting beat.

While we're on that topic, there's a **** ton of disparity between bottom tier FCS and even middle of the road teams. There are DII programs that could contend for certain FCS conference championships. So crowing about an all FCS schedule that includes the likes of FAMU is really quite meaningless. It depends on who those FCS programs are.

Again, the Big South appears to be growing stronger while the Southern fades a bit. I think Coastal is a legit top ten team who still hasn't played anybody, from a conference that historically hasn't proven much.

[rokamortis]

I'd make the same argument against Coastal if EWU was unranked.

You're making quite a few erroneous assumptions here.

FBS games have very little to do with ego or strength of schedule. They have virtually everything to do with $'s. That's why you see many teams actually scheduling not just one but two in the same season and dramatically hurting their chances to make the playoffs. It pays the bills.

DII games are almost always fillers and you're going to see them happen out West much more because unlike South Carolina, we don't have 35 FCS programs in-state. Nobody like scheduling them because they're bad for attendance and if it's a quality DII you run the risk of getting beat.

While we're on that topic, there's a **** ton of disparity between bottom tier FCS and even middle of the road teams. There are DII programs that could contend for certain FCS conference championships. So crowing about an all FCS schedule that includes the likes of FAMU is really quite meaningless. It depends on who those FCS programs are.

Again, the Big South appears to be growing stronger while the Southern fades a bit. I think Coastal is a legit top ten team who still hasn't played anybody, from a conference that historically hasn't proven much.

Kalm, stay with me here. No erroneous assumptions - my comments were made in context. We are talking about how people (fans and likely administrators) are justifying strength of schedule / results for rankings and possible at-large consideration. There are whole threads about FBS scalps and posts from people justifying their ranking about playing this FBS team close for 3 quarters or holding them to less yards than average or however they want to justify.

You discounting Coastal's all FCS schedule just shows your bias. You use FAMU as an example, and sure enough they are bad but probably still better than the majority of DIIs. So what about NAIA schools - I'm sure you think those are great too. How many DII programs could content for FCS titles and which ones? Sure there are some great DIIs, but is that what we are talking about here? A DII should be discounted because they have less scholarships, they also don't support their athletic departments in the same way DI teams do.

So go back to the pipe Kalm - you deserve it.

[kalm]

Kalm, stay with me here. No erroneous assumptions - my comments were made in context. We are talking about how people (fans and likely administrators) are justifying strength of schedule / results for rankings and possible at-large consideration. There are whole threads about FBS scalps and posts from people justifying their ranking about playing this FBS team close for 3 quarters or holding them to less yards than average or however they want to justify.

You discounting Coastal's all FCS schedule just shows your bias. You use FAMU as an example, and sure enough they are bad but probably still better than the majority of DIIs. So what about NAIA schools - I'm sure you think those are great too. How many DII programs could content for FCS titles and which ones? Sure there are some great DIIs, but is that what we are talking about here? A DII should be discounted because they have less scholarships, they also don't support their athletic departments in the same way DI teams do.

So go back to the pipe Kalm - you deserve it.

1). Surrender in your 1st paragraph is accepted.

2). Who said DII's were great? BTW, you do realize there are DII's with more schollies than some FCS schools, right?

3). NAIA's should be avoided except when ESPN asks you to change your schedule in the Spring so you can be their featured game to open the season.

[rokamortis]

1). Surrender in your 1st paragraph is accepted.

2). Who said DII's were great? BTW, you do realize there are DII's with more schollies than some FCS schools, right?

3). NAIA's should be avoided except when ESPN asks you to change your schedule in the Spring so you can be their featured game to open the season.

1) No surrender here - just shows how off you are.

2) Yes - I do know there are some non-scholarship FCS but again context - we didn't play any of those. You knew that, right? Of course you did but you just want to be obtuse.

3) Just shows your hypocrisy - you slam Coastal for FAMU and a full FCS schedule but have an NAIA on yours. As I said before, you guys have one good win and that's it. You shouldn't act like you have the best schedule around, especially since the bottom of your league is very, very low.

[kalm]

1) No surrender here - just shows how off you are.

2) Yes - I do know there are some non-scholarship FCS but again context - we didn't play any of those. You knew that, right? Of course you did but you just want to be obtuse.

3) Just shows your hypocrisy - you slam Coastal for FAMU and a full FCS schedule but have an NAIA on yours. As I said before, you guys have one good win and that's it. You shouldn't act like you have the best schedule around, especially since the bottom of your league is very, very low.

You hung your hat on an all FCS schedule and then proceeded to downplay teams that schedule FBS and DII. I'm just pointing out the issues with that.

But if you'd like to do a comparison we have 3 wins on our schedule better than any on yours. We could lose one more and still be in the hunt for a seed.

Who you play matters.

[rokamortis]

You hung your hat on an all FCS schedule and then proceeded to downplay teams that schedule FBS and DII. I'm just pointing out the issues with that.

But if you'd like to do a comparison we have 3 wins on our schedule better than any on yours. We could lose one more and still be in the hunt for a seed.

Who you play matters.

That's where you are wrong. I didn't 'hang my hat' but just showing how anyone can put spin on their results - just like you justifying the NAIA and how SHSU may end up being a good win because they beat a McNeese team that their own fans say shouldn't be ranked.

I think EWU has one good win, Montana State, and it is certainly better than any of the wins Coastal has. The other ones you are trying to justify aren't looking very good and are not better than what we have. One or two may end up doing ok by the end of the year but as of right now they aren't looking too hot. This just further underscores what I've been saying. You try to pump up your team while disparaging others.

[kalm]

That's where you are wrong. I didn't 'hang my hat' but just showing how anyone can put spin on their results - just like you justifying the NAIA and how SHSU may end up being a good win because they beat a McNeese team that their own fans say shouldn't be ranked.

I think EWU has one good win, Montana State, and it is certainly better than any of the wins Coastal has. The other ones you are trying to justify aren't looking very good and are not better than what we have. One or two may end up doing ok by the end of the year but as of right now they aren't looking too hot. This just further underscores what I've been saying. You try to pump up your team while disparaging others.

I was replying to questions regarding EWU's ranking and simply pointed out that SOS was a factor in comparing us with UNH and and Nova and that Coastal's schedule was even worse.

SHSU and ISU are better wins than any on Coastal's schedule as well.

One man's disparagement is another mans facts. Sorry that hurts so much.

[rokamortis]

I was replying to questions regarding EWU's ranking and simply pointed out that SOS was a factor in comparing us with UNH and and Nova and that Coastal's schedule was even worse.

SHSU and ISU are better wins than any on Coastal's schedule as well.

One man's disparagement is another mans facts. Sorry that hurts so much.

You should look into the difference between fact and opinion. Also, don't worry - what you post here has no effect on my feelings. Hope you guys have a great rest of the season - will be interesting to see how this all ends up.

[UNIFanSince1983]

I was replying to questions regarding EWU's ranking and simply pointed out that SOS was a factor in comparing us with UNH and and Nova and that Coastal's schedule was even worse.

SHSU and ISU are better wins than any on Coastal's schedule as well.

One man's disparagement is another mans facts. Sorry that hurts so much.

I don't think you can call SHSU and ISU better than anyone on Coastal's schedule a fact.

The fact is neither team has played a common opponent and their opponents haven't played each other. This is just your opinion that EWU has a tougher schedule. I mean don't get me wrong that is my opinion too, but don't call these facts. Until Coastal and EWU play (which probably won't happen this year) we just have our opinions on who is actually better or who has a tougher schedule.

[URMite]

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/images/SeamusLight/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by veinup http://www.anygivensaturday.com/images/SeamusLight/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?p=2161057#post2161057) coach is not poll


I think there are more than one voting so it probably is a poll.

That is his point. Coaches' Poll(plural) vs Coach's Poll(singular)

No fashion designers were involved in these selections.

Now, back to football...

[jmufan999]

Coastal has 7 FCS wins with no D-II teams to pad wins or FBS money games a) against strong FBS teams to increase strength or schedule or b) against weak teams hoping to play close or maybe even sneak a win to pump up our ego. Just a straight up FCS schedule, mostly on the road (we've only had 2 home games so far).

you're making this sound like a positive thing, which is a curious argument. playing an FBS team boosts your schedule... period. it has nothing to do with ego. playing a D-II team hurts your schedule... period. of course, there are outliers. NDSU is a better team than some FBS schools, for example. i'm sure there are a few D-II schools who are better than some FCS schools. but for the most part, playing an FBS team helps your schedule. you can't claim this is a positive thing by not even attempting to get an FBS win.

i'm not saying your team isn't good, but your argument was very... creative.

[McNeese75]

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/images/SeamusLight/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by veinup http://www.anygivensaturday.com/images/SeamusLight/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?p=2161057#post2161057) coach is not poll



That is his point. Coaches' Poll(plural) vs Coach's Poll(singular)

No fashion designers were involved in these selections.

Now, back to football...

xeyebrowx Seriously??? Grammer Nazi?????

[rokamortis]

you're making this sound like a positive thing, which is a curious argument. playing an FBS team boosts your schedule... period. it has nothing to do with ego. playing a D-II team hurts your schedule... period. of course, there are outliers. NDSU is a better team than some FBS schools, for example. i'm sure there are a few D-II schools who are better than some FCS schools. but for the most part, playing an FBS team helps your schedule. you can't claim this is a positive thing by not even attempting to get an FBS win.

i'm not saying your team isn't good, but your argument was very... creative.

As mentioned earlier - this was a 'spin' argument. Trying to put as much positive spin for my team.

My argument is that it is a good thing because you have a better we chance for a win vs FCS teams. Having a chance at a win against a FBS is the creative approach.

FBS games are mostly about money. They also artificially boost your schedule strength. The chances of beating an FBS for most FCS teams are low, and the chances of beating a good one are non-existent for the vast majority.

So many fans try to put spin on these games as they are automatic losses and may effect the 7 win threshold. To me they are wasteful and could cause a problem for a bubble team.

Last year we played a really good South Carolina team. So you are saying we played it for a chance to win? Or did we play it for a paycheck?

[kalm]

You should look into the difference between fact and opinion. Also, don't worry - what you post here has no effect on my feelings. Hope you guys have a great rest of the season - will be interesting to see how this all ends up.

You're right.

CCU's opponents are 18-26 mostly against Southern, Big South, and MEAC competition.

The team with the best record on your schedule is NCA&T with wins against Howard, Hampton, Alabama A&M, Elon, and something named Chowan.

Facts. It's up to you on what opinion to form around them.

CCU is a quality program on the rise, the Big South as a conference is definitely improving. But regarding comparisons to programs that have FBS games as well as CAA and Big Sky conference schedules and not to mention the historical success of said conferences in the playoffs, you're still a little bit behind (my opinion).

[rokamortis]

You're right.

CCU's opponents are 18-26 mostly against Southern, Big South, and MEAC competition.

The team with the best record on your schedule is NCA&T with wins against Howard, Hampton, Alabama A&M, Elon, and something named Chowan.

Facts. It's up to you on what opinion to form around them.

CCU is a quality program on the rise, the Big South as a conference is definitely improving. But regarding comparisons to programs that have FBS games as well as CAA and Big Sky conference schedules and not to mention the historical success of said conferences in the playoffs, you're still a little bit behind (my opinion).

This was really not about CCU vs EWU - really trying to be a voice of reason for other fans. Showing how we shouldn't tear down other teams just to make ours look better. Don't use bias or 'history' as factors but to look at the reality of the situation. But since it seems like you prefer to not see it that way, I'll break down EWU for you.

FCS opponents are 13-19. That includes 3 sub D-I wins and a sub D-I loss.

Best win is Montana State at 5-2. It is a good win, in my opinion. But you should also realize that MSU has a sub D-I win and their FCS wins have a record of 11-15. Their best wins UCA and Sac State are each 4-3 (Sac State with a sub D-I win) and their wins are over FCS teams that are 7-19 for UCA and 3-16 for Sac State.

History shouldn't really apply to this year as it is a new year but since you would like to take that into account. Big South is a new league and has only had an autobid since 2010. So you really can't use history as there is very little. Here is a little recent history you may be interested in: The Big South is 1-0 vs the Big Sky in the playoffs. Coastal beat Montana at Montana last year in a game played in the record cold.

I know you like to discount the MEAC, but you should be careful about that. Take a look at the Massey Composite: http://www.masseyratings.com/cf/compare1aa.htm
Many Big Sky and MEAC teams are ranked near each other. So us playing the mostly better MEAC teams is like you playing a lot of the teams in your conference. Facts.

[kalm]

This was really not about CCU vs EWU - really trying to be a voice of reason for other fans. Showing how we shouldn't tear down other teams just to make ours look better. Don't use bias or 'history' as factors but to look at the reality of the situation. But since it seems like you prefer to not see it that way, I'll break down EWU for you.

FCS opponents are 13-19. That includes 3 sub D-I wins and a sub D-I loss.

Best win is Montana State at 5-2. It is a good win, in my opinion. But you should also realize that MSU has a sub D-I win and their FCS wins have a record of 11-15. Their best wins UCA and Sac State are each 4-3 (Sac State with a sub D-I win) and their wins are over FCS teams that are 7-19 for UCA and 3-16 for Sac State.

History shouldn't really apply to this year as it is a new year but since you would like to take that into account. Big South is a new league and has only had an autobid since 2010. So you really can't use history as there is very little. Here is a little recent history you may be interested in: The Big South is 1-0 vs the Big Sky in the playoffs. Coastal beat Montana at Montana last year in a game played in the record cold.

I know you like to discount the MEAC, but you should be careful about that. Take a look at the Massey Composite: http://www.masseyratings.com/cf/compare1aa.htm
Many Big Sky and MEAC teams are ranked near each other. So us playing the mostly better MEAC teams is like you playing a lot of the teams in your conference. Facts.

Ummm, this tiff was started when you suggested EWU had one quality win and I should back away from the pipe…Mr. Voice of Reason and champion of not tearing down. I sincerely apologize for being so harsh in suggesting that Coastal's schedule is worse than UNH's, Nova's, and Easternxlolx

Also funny that you removed the FBS in your calculations. xlolx

But since we're now into the computers, Sagarin has CCU's SOS at 205 and Eastern's at 139 and the MEAC ranked only ahead of the SWAC and Pioneer, but guess what? The Big South is currently ranked ahead of the Big Sky…so you've got that going for ya…which is nice! :D

Facts.

My opinion: Weber State, UC Davis, and SUU would at least contend for, if not win, the MEAC this year.

[rokamortis]

Ummm, this tiff was started when you suggested EWU had one quality win and I should back away from the pipe…Mr. Voice of Reason and champion of not tearing down. I sincerely apologize for being so harsh in suggesting that Coastal's schedule is worse than UNH's, Nova's, and Easternxlolx

Also nice that you removed the FBS in your calculations. xlolx

But since we're now into the computers, Sagarin has CCU's SOS at 205 and Eastern's at 139 and the MEAC ranked only ahead of the SWAC and Pioneer, but guess what? The Big South is currently ranked ahead of the Big Sky…so you've got that going for ya…which is nice! :D

I didn't include the FBS because they are money games and artificially enhance the strength of schedule. That was one of my earlier points - comparing FCS schedules at least tries to keep it on par.

Sagarin is one computer rating - Massey Composite includes computer (like Sagarin) and the human polls (AGS, SN, and Coaches). Again, I'm sure you know the difference but choose to ignore it. It is a matter of opinion which is better, but I'll choose to go with one the represents many different views than one that only represents one view. Oh, and the Big South is ranked above the Big Sky in Massey Composite too - so yes, we do have that going for us.

I'm just demonstrating how your method could work against your favor and I think I did good job. You tried to use the SHSU as a good win, but they are 3-3 with a loss against a DII. The other teams either have even or losing records or they are winning against bad teams. You discount the MEAC but the mid-bottom teams in the Big Sky are in the same realm - so I may start calling the Big Sky the MEAC West. xlolx

[kalm]

I didn't include the FBS because they are money games and artificially enhance the strength of schedule. That was one of my earlier points - comparing FCS schedules at least tries to keep it on par.

Sagarin is one computer rating - Massey Composite includes computer (like Sagarin) and the human polls (AGS, SN, and Coaches). Again, I'm sure you know the difference but choose to ignore it. It is a matter of opinion which is better, but I'll choose to go with one the represents many different views than one that only represents one view. Oh, and the Big South is ranked above the Big Sky in Massey Composite too - so yes, we do have that going for us.

I'm just demonstrating how your method could work against your favor and I think I did good job. You tried to use the SHSU as a good win, but they are 3-3 with a loss against a DII. The other teams either have even or losing records or they are winning against bad teams. You discount the MEAC but the mid-bottom teams in the Big Sky are in the same realm - so I may start calling the Big Sky the MEAC West. xlolx

So if we had beat Howard rather than the UW you would have us ranked higher? I know you made that point earlier, it was stupid then and it still is.

Regarding Massey, does he post SOS?

My only point with SHSU is that it's looking like a better win after they upset #5. ISU has played down twice, but they also lost to us on the road by just 3, trounced a decent Sac State team, and played Utah and Utah State the latter of which they kept relatively respectful, gaining 400 yards on the aggies but turned it over 4 times. Ooops, that's right, FBS games don't count. xlolx
At least ISU's SOS is 30.

So to recap: EWU has one win at least equal to if not better than any on Nova's and UNH's schedules, and 3 winds better than any on CCU's.

That's why one could make the case for their #2 ranking. But I understand if people have another team(s) ahead of them.

[rokamortis]

So if we had beat Howard rather than the UW you would have us ranked higher? I know you made that point earlier, it was stupid then and it still is.

Regarding Massey, does he post SOS?

My only point with SHSU is that it's looking like a better win after they upset #5. ISU has played down twice, but they also lost to us on the road by just 3, trounced a decent Sac State team, and played Utah and Utah State the latter of which they kept relatively respectful, gaining 400 yards on the aggies but turned it over 4 times. Ooops, that's right, FBS games don't count. xlolx
At least ISU's SOS is 30.

So to recap: EWU has one win at least equal to if not better than any on Nova's and UNH's schedules, and 3 winds better than any on CCU's.

That's why one could make the case for their #2 ranking. But I understand if people have another team(s) ahead of them.

When did you guys beat UW? Is McNeese still #5 after SHSU beat them? Where will they be at the end of the year? Still trying to justify how good a team is by a loss to FBS?

You have 3 winds better? Sounds like you are 3 sheets to the wind.

[kalm]

When did you guys beat UW? Is McNeese still #5 after SHSU beat them? Where will they be at the end of the year? Still trying to justify how good a team is by a loss to FBS?

You have 3 winds better? Sounds like you are 3 sheets to the wind.

AM Ale!

[Rjones61]

Back away from the pipe. You guys have what, 1 quality win?

And Coastal Carolina has how many?

[rokamortis]

And Coastal Carolina has how many?

I'll let you know at the end of the season, but I'm expecting FAMU to make a run.

[UNIFanSince1983]

I'll let you know at the end of the season, but I'm expecting FAMU to make a run.

Wait the team who's only win is against Savannah St.? Yeah I wouldn't hold your breath on that being a quality win...

[FargoBison]

So if we had beat Howard rather than the UW you would have us ranked higher? I know you made that point earlier, it was stupid then and it still is.

Regarding Massey, does he post SOS?

My only point with SHSU is that it's looking like a better win after they upset #5. ISU has played down twice, but they also lost to us on the road by just 3, trounced a decent Sac State team, and played Utah and Utah State the latter of which they kept relatively respectful, gaining 400 yards on the aggies but turned it over 4 times. Ooops, that's right, FBS games don't count. xlolx
At least ISU's SOS is 30.

So to recap: EWU has one win at least equal to if not better than any on Nova's and UNH's schedules, and 3 winds better than any on CCU's.

That's why one could make the case for their #2 ranking. But I understand if people have another team(s) ahead of them.

Massey SOS:

EWU #20
UNH #27
Nova #30
CCU #68

http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?s=cf2014&sub=11605

[rokamortis]

Wait the team who's only win is against Savannah St.? Yeah I wouldn't hold your breath on that being a quality win...

I'm going to send you a new sarcasm detector, yours may be broken.

[rokamortis]

Massey SOS:

EWU #20
UNH #27
Nova #30
CCU #68

http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?s=cf2014&sub=11605

EWU is no doubt helped out by a "good loss" to an FBS team.

Now that we have those SoCon, MEAC, and CAA teams out of the way - you'll see our SOS improve on that list.

Since kalm is so biased against the MEAC, I wonder how he feels about the MEAC West? They have some real challenges in conference still to play.

http://www.masseyratings.com/cf/compare1aa.htm

45 NCA&T - MEAC East (win for Coastal)
52 SC State - MEAC East (win for Coastal)
57 NAU - MEAC West (will play EWU)
62 North Dakota - MEAC West (will play EWU)
78 Southern Utah- MEAC West (win for EWU)
79 Portland State- MEAC West (will play EWU)
88 UC Davis - MEAC West (win for EWU)
114 - FAMU (win for Coastal)

So where does the NAIA team fit in? That's right - I don't think the SOS takes into account lower division leagues. Lucky for EWU and the people who quote SOS as gospel.

[Rjones61]

EWU is no doubt helped out by a "good loss" to an FBS team.

Now that we have those SoCon, MEAC, and CAA teams out of the way - you'll see our SOS improve on that list.

Since kalm is so biased against the MEAC, I wonder how he feels about the MEAC West? They have some real challenges in conference still to play.

http://www.masseyratings.com/cf/compare1aa.htm

45 NCA&T - MEAC East (win for Coastal)
52 SC State - MEAC East (win for Coastal)
57 NAU - MEAC West (will play EWU)
62 North Dakota - MEAC West (will play EWU)
78 Southern Utah- MEAC West (win for EWU)
79 Portland State- MEAC West (will play EWU)
88 UC Davis - MEAC West (win for EWU)
114 - FAMU (win for Coastal)

So where does the NAIA team fit in? That's right - I don't think the SOS takes into account lower division leagues. Lucky for EWU and the people who quote SOS as gospel.

Stupid post. The Massey ratings don't show strength of school, it shows the strength of schedule. So listing the team we play according to the SOS doesn't imply anything. You have to list what ranked teams ahead of Eastern Washington vs the ranked teams ahead of Coastal Carolina (Which is... none?)

[rokamortis]

Stupid post. The Massey ratings don't show strength of school, it shows the strength of schedule. So listing the team we play according to the SOS doesn't imply anything. You have to list what ranked teams ahead of Eastern Washington vs the ranked teams ahead of Coastal Carolina (Which is... none?)

Come on jonesy - it isn't that difficult. I know you want to stick up for your boy (friend?) kalm - but I was specifically addressing his previous negative comments towards the MEAC and stated so. You guys play teams in conference ranked worse than most of the MEAC teams we played. That will bring your SOS down when you play them.

[Rjones61]

MEAC is a joke conference. Most Big Sky teams would wipe the floor with the MEAC.

[FargoBison]

Lets dig deep into Massey...

428. Florida A&M
456. Montana Western(EWU's NAIA opponent)
559. Savannah State

Yep, the bottom of the MEAC is horrific.

[rokamortis]

Lets dig deep into Massey...

428. Florida A&M
456. Montana Western(EWU's NAIA opponent)
559. Savannah State

Yep, the bottom of the MEAC is horrific.

I don't disagree. Glad we aren't playing Savannah State or Montana Western.

[kalm]

Come on jonesy - it isn't that difficult. I know you want to stick up for your boy (friend?) kalm - but I was specifically addressing his previous negative comments towards the MEAC and stated so. You guys play teams in conference ranked worse than most of the MEAC teams we played. That will bring your SOS down when you play them.

The BSC has four teams rated above NCA&T and SCSU and 4 teams rated above the BSo
#2 Liberty. And we have the other three BSC teams on the schedule.

To recap, CCU has a worse SOS than EWU, Nova, and UNH.

The MEAC is rated only ahead of the SWAC and Pioneer.

I admire your pluck, but you should probably lick your wounds and learn to fight another day.

[rokamortis]

The BSC has four teams rated above NCA&T and SCSU and 4 teams rated above the BSo
#2 Liberty. And we have the other three BSC teams on the schedule.

To recap, CCU has a worse SOS than EWU, Nova, and UNH.

The MEAC is rated only ahead of the SWAC and Pioneer.

I admire your pluck, but you should probably lick your wounds and learn to fight another day.

Lick what wounds? Hah. You really are smoking the pipe. I'm just pointing out the flaws in your schedule and you don't like it. You have an NAIA team in addition to the lower Big Sky being a lot more like the MEAC you deride than you want to admit. Plus the MEAC teams Coastal play are better than a number of conference teams you play. You are justifying quality wins against teams without winning records and/or their wins are against bad teams. One even lost to a DII and you are trying to say it was a quality win. hah! Don't even get me started on your 'quality loss' argument.

SOS is one of the worst stats around since you can't determine what it is until the end of the season. Plus EWU's SOS will go down because of the teams you play in the conference.

Since you want a break, I'm happy to revisit all of this with you at the end of the season - when we can legitimately evaluate teams.

Good luck!

[Rjones61]

Since you want a break, I'm happy to revisit all of this with you at the end of the season - when we can legitimately evaluate teams.

Good luck!


You mean when Coastal Carolina doesn't even make it past the second round of playoffs? Looking forward to it.

[rokamortis]

You mean when Coastal Carolina doesn't even make it past the second round of playoffs? Looking forward to it.

It could happen. Or we could get a Big Sky team again and beat them in the 2nd round like we did last year.

[Rjones61]

It could happen. Or we could get a Big Sky team again and beat them like we did last year in the 2nd round.


Barely beating the number three Big Sky team. Very impressive.

[rokamortis]

Barely beating the number three Big Sky team. Very impressive.

Haha, you've gotta be screwing with me. This is great. You almost had me thinking that your mom smoked while pregnant with you, you were dropped on your head as a baby, ate paint chips, and lived under power lines.

Because I'm sure you wouldn't be stupid enough to post something like that when we beat them better (barely) than you guys did.

So let me anticipate your next post - Something about not making it to round 3. You got me there - we played the then 2 time defending national champion and eventual 3-peat national champion NDSU and they annihilated us. Unfortunately you didn't get the opportunity to play them in the playoffs as you were bounced (at home) before you could.

[Rjones61]

Haha, you've gotta be screwing with me. This is great. You almost had me thinking that your mom smoked while pregnant with you, you were dropped on your head as a baby, ate paint chips, and lived under power lines.

Because I'm sure you wouldn't be stupid enough to post something like that when we beat them better (barely) than you guys did.

So let me anticipate your next post - Something about not making it to round 3. You got me there - we played the then 2 time defending national champion and eventual 3-peat national champion NDSU and they annihilated us. Unfortunately you didn't get the opportunity to play them in the playoffs as you were bounced (at home) before you could.

It's really unfortunate that Coastal Carolina got such a powder puff schedule and faced the easiest section of the bracket in 2013. It seems to have really gotten into the heads of some fans.

[rokamortis]

It's really unfortunate that Coastal Carolina got such a powder puff schedule and faced the easiest section of the bracket in 2013. It seems to have really gotten into the heads of some fans.

Man, I wouldn't let the NDSU fans see you say their side of the bracket was the easiest or they were easier than Towson. The wrath of bison nation may fall down upon you.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Man, I wouldn't let the NDSU fans see you say their side of the bracket was the easiest or they were easier than Towson. The wrath of bison nation may fall down upon you.


Not to pile on here but:

The Citadel
NC A & T
SCSU
Florida A & M
Furman
Presbyterian

That is not exactly a "killer" schedule so far. Kudos to being undefeated so far but the competition is not exactly "good".....

[kalm]

Lick what wounds? Hah. You really are smoking the pipe. I'm just pointing out the flaws in your schedule and you don't like it. You have an NAIA team in addition to the lower Big Sky being a lot more like the MEAC you deride than you want to admit. Plus the MEAC teams Coastal play are better than a number of conference teams you play. You are justifying quality wins against teams without winning records and/or their wins are against bad teams. One even lost to a DII and you are trying to say it was a quality win. hah! Don't even get me started on your 'quality loss' argument.

SOS is one of the worst stats around since you can't determine what it is until the end of the season. Plus EWU's SOS will go down because of the teams you play in the conference.

Since you want a break, I'm happy to revisit all of this with you at the end of the season - when we can legitimately evaluate teams.

Good luck!

Of course SOS isn't fully accurate until the end of the season. For example, one of our wins came against a 1-6 SUU…who has lost to SELA, SDSU, Nevada, Fresno State, EWU, and a close loss to Cal Poly who is rated ahead of 8 MEAC teams. In fact, you could probably rank Poly, Sac St., and NAU as the 5th, 6th, and 7th best teams in the BSC and they are all ahead of 8 MEAC's.

BTW, SHSU is 24th in your beloved Massey. Yes they lost to a DII but I remember back to 2005 or 2006 when Montana State beat Colorado and the next week, lost to DII Chadron State (I think Danny Woodhead was on that team IIRC). They went on to beat Furman in the first round of the playoffs that year before losing to eventual champion ASU.

But keep chugging along kid, you'll get there eventually!

[rokamortis]

Not to pile on here but:

The Citadel
NC A & T
SCSU
Florida A & M
Furman
Presbyterian

That is not exactly a "killer" schedule so far. Kudos to being undefeated so far but the competition is not exactly "good".....

If you go back and look what I've posted I've said i recognize the faults in Coastal's schedule. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy in the statements made by those that prop up 'good losses' or a 'strong conference' when many of the teams are at the lower end with the teams they deride. It isn't about me defending Coastal's schedule, it is about others trying to spin their mediocre wins / losses to make them appear better than they are.

People like kalm dismiss the MEAC without taking everything into context.

So as I said before, let's just see how it shakes out.

[rokamortis]

Of course SOS isn't fully accurate until the end of the season. For example, one of our wins came against a 1-6 SUU…who has lost to SELA, SDSU, Nevada, Fresno State, EWU, and a close loss to Cal Poly who is rated ahead of 8 MEAC teams. In fact, you could probably rank Poly, Sac St., and NAU as the 5th, 6th, and 7th best teams in the BSC and they are all ahead of 8 MEAC's.

BTW, SHSU is 24th in your beloved Massey. Yes they lost to a DII but I remember back to 2005 or 2006 when Montana State beat Colorado and the next week, lost to DII Chadron State (I think Danny Woodhead was on that team IIRC). They went on to beat Furman in the first round of the playoffs that year before losing to eventual champion ASU.

But keep chugging along kid, you'll get there eventually!

Just keep hitting that pipe kalm.

http://sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/i/keep-kalm-our-record-is-awesome.png

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

If you go back and look what I've posted I've said i recognize the faults in Coastal's schedule. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy in the statements made by those that prop up 'good losses' or a 'strong conference' when many of the teams are at the lower end with the teams they deride. It isn't about me defending Coastal's schedule, it is about others trying to spin their mediocre wins / losses to make them appear better than they are.

People like kalm dismiss the MEAC without taking everything into context.

So as I said before, let's just see how it shakes out.


Points taken!

xthumbsupx

[kalm]

If you go back and look what I've posted I've said i recognize the faults in Coastal's schedule. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy in the statements made by those that prop up 'good losses' or a 'strong conference' when many of the teams are at the lower end with the teams they deride. It isn't about me defending Coastal's schedule, it is about others trying to spin their mediocre wins / losses to make them appear better than they are.

People like kalm dismiss the MEAC without taking everything into context.

So as I said before, let's just see how it shakes out.

The question was EWU's ranking. I suggested the SOS was no worse than UNH, Nova , and better than CCU's. I described ISU as vastly improved (which they are) and the SHSU win as now looking better (it does since their DII loss. ) All fair assessments and no chest pumping.

Again, there are 8 MEAC teams ranked below the 7th best team in the BSC. We still have decent teams left on the schedule in NAU and Montana. We will have faced 4 ranked opponents and possibly a fifth plus an FBS when it's all said and done. Decent.

You can keep yapping all you want but you lost this argument way back on page 1.

[rokamortis]

You can keep yapping all you want but you lost this argument way back on page 1.

Yawn.

[kalm]

Yawn.

Apology accepted...again.

[rokamortis]

Apology accepted...again.

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Jennifer-Lawrence-ok-thumbs-up.gif

[jmrepak]

Not to pile on here but:

The Citadel
NC A & T
SCSU
Florida A & M
Furman
Presbyterian

That is not exactly a "killer" schedule so far. Kudos to being undefeated so far but the competition is not exactly "good".....
I want to let this conversation die for about another 3 weeks until it really starts to matter, but I wanted to point out that with the exception of FAMU the OOC schedule looked pretty decent pre-season. It's just taken some lumps due to the opponents losing to teams they weren't expected to lose to. The Citadel and Furman were supposed to be SOCON powers and top 25 caliber but that didn't pan out. NC A&T and SC St are not great but are decent enough to be top 35 normally and one may knock off BC by year-end to take the MEAC and crack the top 25. FAMU was just bad all the way around but our schedule needed some work after we decided to no longer play BCS and had to add a game to replace the one we dropped. We still have decent opponents coming up as well with CSU and Liberty. I won't join the argument. I just wanted to point out that our schedule looked better when it was built than when it was played. Doesn't do anything for the polls or computer rankings but it was worth pointing out

[kalm]

And then SHSU craps the bed while FAMU gets a win….xlolx

[Red & Black]

Haha, you've gotta be screwing with me. This is great. You almost had me thinking that your mom smoked while pregnant with you, you were dropped on your head as a baby, ate paint chips, and lived under power lines.

Because I'm sure you wouldn't be stupid enough to post something like that when we beat them better (barely) than you guys did.

So let me anticipate your next post - Something about not making it to round 3. You got me there - we played the then 2 time defending national champion and eventual 3-peat national champion NDSU and they annihilated us. Unfortunately you didn't get the opportunity to play them in the playoffs as you were bounced (at home) before you could.

Missoula's not an easy place to get a win, especially in December...but UM was not a very good team last year, despite their record.

As for the MEAC being comparable to the bottom of the Big Sky, I don't think that's a valid argument. I think even Weber, SUU, and UNC would beat up on most of the MEAC.

CC has had a good run so far this year, but I think that questiong their SOS is pretty legitimate when you take a look at it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[rokamortis]

And then SHSU craps the bed while FAMU gets a win….xlolx

I wasn't going to bring it up :D

[rokamortis]

Missoula's not an easy place to get a win, especially in December...but UM was not a very good team last year, despite their record.

As for the MEAC being comparable to the bottom of the Big Sky, I don't think that's a valid argument. I think even Weber, SUU, and UNC would beat up on most of the MEAC.

CC has had a good run so far this year, but I think that questiong their SOS is pretty legitimate when you take a look at it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I really, honestly don't have a problem with people questioning Coastal's schedule. The schedule is weak - I know, I get that. I've been as critical of it as most anyone else. I want us to get out of the southeast and play teams from the Midwest and West.

The point I was trying to make that continually gets overlooked is that people try to make their teams look much better than they are, usually at the expense of other teams / conferences they don't know much about. I've repeatedly stated various examples in this thread but all people see is I'm either trying to defend Coastal or attack EWU and the truth is I'm really not trying to do either.

I think all teams, probably with the exception of NDSU, have warts we should recognize. To your point, the top of the Big Sky is pretty good but the bottom is not. I think the better MEAC teams would beat those teams. My opinion, but I think you'd agree, that the mid-bottom Big Sky leaves a lot to be desired.

Anyway, I've made my points and had my fun with kalm and others. It was a bye week and I was bored. Now time to get back to the games.

I wish EWU good luck the rest of the season. If Coastal doesn't shoot itself in the foot, maybe we'll play later in the year.