Southern Conference expansion

[dungeonjoe]

The article is mainly aboout basketball but it is interesting about votes for league expansion.

http://www.charleston.net/assets/webPages/departmental/news/Stories.aspx?section=sports&tableId=117410&pubDate=11/7/2006



"Of course, that's assuming the SoCon remains an 11-team league. The conference's expansion process could finally get the go-ahead Nov. 14 in a meeting of league presidents. One proposal is expanding to 14 schools, which would require the addition of three new members.

Coastal Carolina, now in the Big South, has made no secret of its desire to move to the SoCon. But could the league find three new members? "I think we could," Iamarino said."

[OL FU]

So the process is the agreement to expand without necesarily identifying schools. Once the expansion is conceptually agreed, the Commissioner locates the school and presents to the schools for a vote. right?

[OL FU]

Unless someone knows of an impending departure, I hope we do not go above 9 football playing schools. I do not want to be in the position where every school does not play a common in conference schedule.

[dungeonjoe]

So the process is the agreement to expand without necesarily identifying schools. Once the expansion is conceptually agreed, the Commissioner locates the school and presents to the schools for a vote. right?

that Furman education serves you well, my friend. It sounds like let's close our eyes, put the car in drive, and let's see where we go.:)

[asu7]

personally I do not think they should be added unless they play football ...

[OL FU]

that Furman education serves you well, my friend. It sounds like let's close our eyes, put the car in drive, and let's see where we go.:)

That is what I was thinking. I wonder if that is what other conferences do. I mean here is the risk.

HEADLINE November 14. 2006

SoCon announces plan to expand to 14 teams.


HEADLINE June 15, 2007. SoCon expands to 12 teams. Can't find two more candidates willing to Join:rolleyes:

I mean I am not saying that is what would happen but you have to take these things into consideration.

[Saint3333]

This is not going to be pretty. I don't think the SoCon can attract schools with established programs (JSU & UNCW). They need to get UTC a travel partner, but JSU will probably not go for it.

We know the SoCon could get CCU and I believe they are aren't the #1 choice for a lot of the SoCon schools, but they are probably the best program the SoCon will get.

Unfortunately I bet they'll bring in couple of questionable "start-ups" or transitional programs if they try to get 14 schools too fast...: smh :

[OL FU]

This is not going to be pretty. I don't think the SoCon can attract schools with established programs (JSU & UNCW). They need to get UTC a travel partner, but JSU will probably not go for it.

We know the SoCon could get CCU and I believe they are aren't the #1 choice for a lot of the SoCon schools, but they are probably the best program the SoCon will get.

Unfortunately I bet they'll bring in couple of questionable "start-ups" or transitional programs if they try to get 14 schools too fast...: smh :

I think the first question is how many of the schools will play football.
I want fewer football playing schools due to the scheduling problems, but football is what makes us the most attractive. ( and geography for some ). The discussion was all over the boards early about CAA teams Wilmington and Georgia St. It was obvious that the fans on the boards did not want that to happen and understandably so. The schools may look at it from an economic point of view. But the truth is, outside of football and for some baseball, we don't offer a step up for established programs. As I said football is the exception.

[Saint3333]

I think JSU should consider it. The OVC may be marginally better than the SoCon in basketball, but football and baseball are stronger in the SoCon. I'm not sure if they have a rivalry with many OVC teams, but the UTC and Furman rivalry could be just as good. I think JSU with their stadium improvements isn't looking to stay in 1-AA forever either and a move to the SoCon could give them a couple of partners to move up with:smiley_wi .

Besides can't we get a school outside of NC & SC???

[rokamortis]

But what does JSU really gain playing in the SoCon it doesn't get in the OVC? They actually have more likelihood of making the football playoffs in the OVC - and that is why I think they may not consider a move now.

[Saint3333]

Given that logic, CCU has a better chance of making the playoffs in the Big South too.

[OL FU]

I think JSU should consider it. The OVC may be marginally better than the SoCon in basketball, but football and baseball are stronger in the SoCon. I'm not sure if they have a rivalry with many OVC teams, but the UTC and Furman rivalry could be just as good. I think JSU with their stadium improvements isn't looking to stay in 1-AA forever either and a move to the SoCon could give them a couple of partners to move up with:smiley_wi .

Besides can't we get a school outside of NC & SC???

I have always thought that if Alabama schools join it will be JSU and Samford together. I think JSU fans would like to join but are a little pissed at the supposed snub a few years ago. I don't have a clue about Samford fans. I broached the subject with a few and all they could talk about was how much better the OVC was in BBall, which I agree with you is not really the case.

The big benefit for most schools are those that want to step up in football. CCU fits the bill. OVC teams, EKU, JSU fit the bill.

Another thought. would be MEAC schools that want to step up especially if the MEAC opts out of the playoffs . SC State and Hampton. :nod:

Mr.C any rumors. Any chance with the MEAC schools.

I just hate the idea of three more football teams:nono:

[OL FU]

But what does JSU really gain playing in the SoCon it doesn't get in the OVC? They actually have more likelihood of making the football playoffs in the OVC - and that is why I think they may not consider a move now.

Competition makes us better. It is really as simple as that. Year in and year out the competition is better in the SoCon. Not a knock but an example, how many playoff games has the OVC won in the last five or ten years versus the SoCon?

[rokamortis]

Given that logic, CCU has a better chance of making the playoffs in the Big South too.

I don't know about that. We have to schedule a hard OOC to even be considered and have to win a minimum of 9 games. The Big South doesn't have an autobid - but the OVC does. All JSU has to do is win their conference and they are in the playoffs.

I think there are many other factors than just playoffs for Coastal. But it doesn't hurt that many years the SoCon can get 3 teams in.

[OL FU]

I don't know about that. We have to schedule a hard OOC to even be considered and have to win a minimum of 9 games. The Big South doesn't have an autobid - but the OVC does. All JSU has to do is win their conference and they are in the playoffs.

I think there are many other factors than just playoffs for Coastal. But it doesn't hurt that many years the SoCon can get 3 teams in.

Once Again I agree. If you are in the SoCon and are 8-3, 90% you get in ( unless you are named Wofford). If you guys are 8-3 this year, you don't get in. :nono:

In the Case of JSU, it really is a matter of (1) is it more important to get in the playoffs or (2) more important to win.

I know we don't get them all but Furman takes a lot of players from JSU's back yard. It might be a little more difficult if JSU played in the SoCon, played Furman every year and beat Furman some. (Which would happen)

I Believe JSU would get better in the SoCon

[AppGuy04]

Why would we want a middle of the pack team from a bad conference (OVC)

[rokamortis]

I Believe JSU would get better in the SoCon

You're right. I think they'd be a great addition to the conference and expand the infamous 'footprint'. I was just questioning whether the administration would want to take that gamble or not. I'd hope EKU would join as well - would make a very strong conference with a lot of tradition. Of course I'd hope CCU is part of that as well.

[OL FU]

Why would we want a middle of the pack team from a bad conference (OVC)

Who are you talking about?

[dbackjon]

14 teams in too big for a conference, IMHO.....

[AppGuy04]

Who are you talking about?

JSU, not a very good addition IMO

[Saint3333]

04 are you joking, go to JSU's website and check out their stadium expansion plans. Good market, decent attendance figures, travel partner for UTC, what's not to like about them?

[AppGuy04]

04 are you joking, go to JSU's website and check out their stadium expansion plans. Good market, decent attendance figures, travel partner for UTC, what's not to like about them?

They would be in the bottom half of the conference every year. Plans are just that, plans. If we are trying to pick up a football school thats fine, but they are not a good one.

Besides, even if we get both JSU and Coastal, that leaves us one short

[OL FU]

JSU, not a very good addition IMO

They are one of the top teams in the OVC. not this year but most years

More importantly is the financial commitment they are making. AS Saint said, look at the facilities. They want to be good at football. :nod:

Samford possibly would be the price we pay to get them. (A price that Furman probably supports wholeheartedly:o )

[OL FU]

They would be in the bottom half of the conference every year. Plans are just that, plans. If we are trying to pick up a football school thats fine, but they are not a good one.

Besides, even if we get both JSU and Coastal, that leaves us one short

They like most teams that come into the SoCon would need time.

I may piss off the CCU folks here. but even they would need time.
They are having a good year this year, but let's face their team full of seniors are gone after this year and while they may not be starting over it would be close. It usually takes more than four years to build a program

CCU is like JSU. They have made the financial committment.

If you are going to hold out for someone to compete the first season, you can, more than likely, forget about it.

[rokamortis]

I may piss off the CCU folks here. but even they would need time.

That's a fair and reasonable statement - I don't think anyone thinks we'd join and be one of the top programs right away.

[HIU 93]

Another thought. would be MEAC schools that want to step up especially if the MEAC opts out of the playoffs . SC State and Hampton. :nod:

Any chance with the MEAC schools.

The only way Hampton will jump ship is if it benefits Hampton. Therefore, the ONLY way we will leave the MEAC is if Dr. Thomas decides to pull the MEAC out of the playoffs. I don't think that will happen. (PS-Pay no attention to Dr. Thomas stating that the MEAC would consider leaving the playoff system). There really is no benefit in leaving the MEAC at present. We can win a NC while members of the MEAC. We just need all of the pieces to fall in place, just like anybody else, regardless of conference affiliation. We would more than likely lose money if we left the MEAC, so there is definitely no financial benefit in leaving.

[Saint3333]

They would be in the bottom half of the conference every year. Plans are just that, plans. If we are trying to pick up a football school thats fine, but they are not a good one.

Besides, even if we get both JSU and Coastal, that leaves us one short

Who could the SoCon get that's better than JSU in football, EKU maybe.

Can you name three programs you'd rather have than JSU that would realistically join? I can't.

[AppGuy04]

Who could the SoCon get that's better than JSU in football, EKU maybe.

Can you name three programs you'd rather have than JSU that would realistically join? I can't.

I'm not saying there's anything better, I just don't see the point in rushing and settling for less than what we could get.

After seeing how the ACC has turned out, do we really want expansion just for the sake of expansion

[Cincy App]

04 are you joking, go to JSU's website and check out their stadium expansion plans. Good market, decent attendance figures, travel partner for UTC, what's not to like about them?

I agree Saint. If the SoCon expands, I would want schools planning to make a financial commitment to improve. Schools like Coastal and JSU fit that bill.

JSU also won the OVC the last 2 years so I disagree with 04's statement that JSU would automatically be a second division team in the SoCon. JSU has also played Furman to the wire the last 2 years and generally plays & beats Chattanooga.

[AppGuy04]

Throwing money into your program does not guarantee success. I mean seriously, do you think anyone can join the Big 3 or Big 2, however you want to look at it. Anyone we add is looking at being a 2nd tier team IMO.

[Saint3333]

Trust me the SoCon IS going to rush into this expansion, just at history with the two most recent additions, Wofford and Elon. Where there better options, possibly we'll never know as they didn't take their time IMO.

How do you expect the SoCon to get a program to challenge the Big 3 right away, there are only a hand full of teams that could do that year in and year out and I believe they are all happy in their current conferences (A-10, Gateway, and Big Sky)?

For what it is worth, we are all wasting our time as the SoCon will likely do one of two things
1) add CCU, Wintrop, and some other non-football school...

OR more likely

2) just add CCU

Any other option would require hard work, something the SoCon powers seem to avoid.

[Death Dealer]

IMO CCU would be a good addition. The beach chickens are obviously passionate about the program, and will be a force to recon with in the future....I'd like to see them join. Having said that, I also would like to see some teams that already have an established tradition of excellence that could challenge for the conference title right now. We need to start building now for the day (and it's coming soon, I'm afraid) when GSU and ASU make the jump to I-A. We need to be proactive not reactive....but that requires long-term vision, something I'm not sure we have in place in our leadership. I just don't know.

[Dr. Strangelove]

04 are you joking, go to JSU's website and check out their stadium expansion plans. Good market, decent attendance figures, travel partner for UTC, what's not to like about them?

Hey Saint, could you post a link to the site where you saw those expansion plans?

The only place I've seen was on the gojaxstate.com board and that post is long gone.

[B&G]

Could ETSU be entered into this debate as a possibility?

[Purple Knight]

NO MORE NON-FOOTBALL PLAYING SCHOOLS!!! Move the non-foorball school to a separate conference or subdivision. Why should we care if we don't play every school? The SEC and ACC handle this without the Tribulation arriving. Lets raid other conferences and get some name schools with I-AA history. Throw in a couple of non-football schools in the trade/deal with the other conference.

[PantherRob82]

Could this start a conference shake down like I-A experienced?

Between this and the WKU move, this could get interesting.

[gophoenix]

Could ETSU be entered into this debate as a possibility?

From what I've heard, absolutely not. I have a friend who sits on an athletic/academic board at ETSU and though football is talked about; he said there are no real plans or money in place to do it in the next 3-5 years. He just went to some meetings there 3 weeks ago.

Question, does EKU have the money to travel as far as they would with App/UTC being the closest school?

What about someone like Tennessee Tech? As much as I read of Jacksonville St and Samford saying no, that could all be lip service right now just in case things do not fall into place (why piss off your conference if you don't have to). I know people will cringe when I say this, but what about Liberty; they've proven they have the money to move forward and have I-A aims like App. And I still think Coastal is a pretty good choice and that they are probably a given if 3 are chosen.

And this isn't meant to be offensive, but if App is such a short timer in the SoCon before moving elsewhere, why do App fans take such a vocal stance to what happens? I mean, if you are staying then sure I can understand wanting someone that helps you long term. But if you're leaving, should the conference work to get someone who barely fits with who would be left without you or GSU?

[AppGuy04]

And this isn't meant to be offensive, but if App is such a short timer in the SoCon before moving elsewhere, why do App fans take such a vocal stance to what happens? I mean, if you are staying then sure I can understand wanting someone that helps you long term. But if you're leaving, should the conference work to get someone who barely fits with who would be left without you or GSU?

I am of the stance that I will believe it when I see it. Personally, I oppose going I-A but thats for another thread and :deadhorse:

[Saint3333]

I think the schools that ASU would like to bring in are the same schools that the majority of the other conference members would like to bring in as well (read some of the Furman posts here).

Who said ASU is going anywhere, fans. We've been saying that for 15 years, we're still here. If ASU is leaving (which is at least 5 or more years if at all) I don't think the SoCon is pushing us out the door. I know you don't like this GP, but ASU is good for the conference and I believe the SoCon recognizes that. Now whether they do anything to benefit ASU is yet to be seen. I'm interested to see what the new leadership will do with expansion, the previous ones picked up the first team that applied. Both good schools, just not the due diligence I'd like to see.

[youwouldno]

The I-A talk is overblown. Decisions are not made on the basis of a program maybe going I-A at some indefinite point in the future. GSU's last game had 12,500 attendance. If a team can't draw 20K+ EVERY year, going I-A is pure foolhardiness. And App St has been hot, but a successful move to I-A requires a fan base that will still be there when the team is struggling.

The SoCon's problem isn't who is leaving but who to bring in, if anyone. We have a newish commish so I'm not going to judge him before he's really gotten a chance to do anything significant. I'm also not sure I see the problem with non-football schools. They don't affect football but could boost the conference's biggest weakness.

I understand the objections but I think you can make a case that bball only schools could be a net benefit, even if it shafts some existing members who play football too.

[PantherRob82]

I know people will cringe when I say this, but what about Liberty; they've proven they have the money to move forward and have I-A aims like App.

:pumpuke:

[gr8ness97]

I do think that South Carolina State is a good choice too...

[AppGuy04]

Liberty = Temple if they go I-A

[Death Dealer]

Some very good points here....I may just be naive, but I think adding some good programs would only help us. And I am glad to hear so many folks so confident that Appy and GSU are staying, because you hear so many others who are very convinicing that they are leaving soon....and when I say soon, I don't necessarily mean in the next 4 years. But in terms of developing a conference with meaningful rivalries, 5-6 years is a blink of the eye. :twocents: I hope niether school ever leaves, but if App contiunes to be successful, and attendence stays the way it is, I think it's wishful thinking to say they won't. And if Appy goes, and GSU turns around the program, which we all know they will, then they will follow suit soon after. Again, :twocents: .

[Sly Fox]

How did this thread become an excuse to bash Liberty? :D

For the umpteenth time, Liberty has longterm plans to move up. Most in Lynchburg see it as a 10-12 year goal. Our attendance is growing and we are investing quite a bit of money in our program. But then again, I don't think many of you care either way.

[gophoenix]

I know you don't like this GP, but ASU is good for the conference and I believe the SoCon recognizes that.

I never said App wasn't good for the conference. The ASN is one example of that. I don't hate App, just some of the posters.

I say we need to try and go for, in this order:
Jacksonville State
Coastal Carolina
Tennessee Tech
Samford
Hampton
and perhaps Kennesaw St, Georgia St or UNCW: only if they commit to starting football.

[OL FU]

:pumpuke:

Ditto on the Liberty feelings.
My feelings probably have more to do with their commander in chief versus their football program

[OL FU]

How did this thread become an excuse to bash Liberty? :D

For the umpteenth time, Liberty has longterm plans to move up. Most in Lynchburg see it as a 10-12 year goal. Our attendance is growing and we are investing quite a bit of money in our program. But then again, I don't think many of you care either way.

Sorry I just joined the bashing:o

[OL FU]

I never said App wasn't good for the conference. The ASN is one example of that. I don't hate App, just some of the posters.

I say we need to try and go for, in this order:
Jacksonville State
Coastal Carolina
Tennessee Tech
Samford
Hampton
and perhaps Kennesaw St, Georgia St or UNCW: only if they commit to starting football.

Nada on those for football
I agree with 04 on this one. We don't need start up football unless they have accomplished what CCU has in a short period of time. Let them accomplish it first and then consider it.

But I will go back to my other issue. Nine Football playing teams is perfect. More than that is a crowd. The SoCon ends up splitting into two divisions and we don't play every team every year.

[Tealblood]

where you guys gonna put Presby in a few years

[Tealblood]

cuz my prediction is they go thru the process of transitioning to Div I in nthe Big South then join the SOCON

[PantherRob82]

Ditto on the Liberty feelings.
My feelings probably have more to do with their commander in chief versus their football program

Agreed, but football hasn't done much either. :thumbsup:

[Go...gate]

Interesting thread. If SoCon expands with teams from the Big South, and VMI is not in the mix (no body has mentioned them), I think the Patriot League would be calling them pronto. They are a good fit for the PL.

I don't agree that if Liberty goes I-A in FB, they will end up like Temple. But Liberty has to use some common sense in upgrading their program before moving up. They have the fan base, in my opinion.

[OL FU]

where you guys gonna put Presby in a few years


PC is good school. A fine institution. And while they don't compete with Furman much for students or athletes (imho) (Unlike Wofford which competes for both although probably more for students) the last thing Furman needs in the SoCon is another small private school less then 40 miles away from it.

I was happy about Wofford's entrance and think they have contributed well in the SoCon and in football mainly. But we don't need PC

Now the Furman admin may disagree since everything I ever hear about SoCon expansion and Furman is that Furman is one of the main backers to keep the small privates on some sort of equal footing with the large publics.

[OL FU]

Interesting thread. If SoCon expands with teams from the Big South, and VMI is not in the mix (no body has mentioned them), I think the Patriot League would be calling them pronto. They are a good fit for the PL.

I don't agree that if Liberty goes I-A in FB, they will end up like Temple. But Liberty has to use some common sense in upgrading their program before moving up. They have the fan base, in my opinion.

My guess is that (and it is truly a guess ) VMI would be welcome.

[henfan]

I say we need to try and go for, in this order:
Jacksonville State
Coastal Carolina
Tennessee Tech
Samford
Hampton
and perhaps Kennesaw St, Georgia St or UNCW: only if they commit to starting football.

Why would GSU or UNCW move anywhere if they committed to starting football? Their existing Olympic sport conference will have its own football league 7 weeks from now.

CCU is about as close as you can get to a 'no brainer' for the SoCon. IMO, Hampton would be another great move for a couple of reasons.

[OL FU]

Why would GSU or UNCW move anywhere if they committed to starting football? Their existing Olympic sport conference will have its own football league 7 weeks from now.

CCU is about as close as you can get to a 'no brainer' for the SoCon. IMO, Hampton would be another great move for a couple of reasons.

The only reason I have heard Wilmington and GSU mentioned is geography. Of course just as interesting is what is going to happen to the CAA when you have 16 football teams:D

HIU is dead on that Hampton will not come unless the MEAC bails out on the playoffs.

[AppGuy04]

I think if we snagged SCSU, Hampton would come along

[henfan]

I say we need to try and go for, in this order:
Jacksonville State
Coastal Carolina
Tennessee Tech
Samford
Hampton
and perhaps Kennesaw St, Georgia St or UNCW: only if they commit to starting football.

Why would GSU or UNCW move anywhere if, in the unlikely chance, they committed to starting football? Their existing Olympic sport conference will have its own football league 7 weeks from now.

CCU is about as close as you can get to a 'no brainer' for the SoCon. IMO, Hampton would be another great move for a couple of reasons. But what do I know?

[OL FU]

My preferences would be

1. Get back into Virginia with JMU. W&M(prev SoCon), RIchmond (Prev SoCon) and/or Hampton. Unless there is something I don't know about none of those are going to go to the SoCon.
2. Alabama and Tennessee - JSU, Tenn Tech and if Tenn Martin is making the effort maybe them (Where is Martin anyway) My difficulty with the Tenn teams is I truly don't know much about the I-AA schools or teams except current and former SoCon members. So I put the Tenn teams up there mainly because one of the priorities is to make Chattanooga happy.
3. CCU and SC State - CCU is the most likely. Once again I don't suppose State is going anywhere unless the MEAC bails on the playoffs. These schools are third only because of geography. We have three South Carolina schools in football and add Charleston in basketball for four.
4. EKU - I think the EKU fans understand that if they want to compete for National Championships in the near future they need to get out of the OVC. They are fourth only because of geography.

I would be happy with any of the above with the qualifying statements made on the Tennessee teams. Of course, I only looked at football teams.


With respect to CCU, it is a nice road trip:D
IF you were in the heart of MB, I wouldn't say that:D

[gophoenix]

Why would GSU or UNCW move anywhere if they committed to starting football? Their existing Olympic sport conference will have its own football league 7 weeks from now.

According to both sets of fans, they cannot afford travel in the CAA and afford football at the same time. I am not saying its a definite for either. just that this is what their fans claim.

[Cincy App]

My preferences would be

2. Alabama and Tennessee - JSU, Tenn Tech and if Tenn Martin is making the effort maybe them (Where is Martin anyway) My difficulty with the Tenn teams is I truly don't know much about the I-AA schools or teams except current and former SoCon members. So I put the Tenn teams up there mainly because one of the priorities is to make Chattanooga happy.

Tenn Martin is in Martin, Tennessee (west of Nashville). Give them credit for a solid football season this year but they are not a good candidate. JSU would make sense if they are interested. TN Tech would be OK at best but I don't see them moving anyway.

[Mountaineer#96]

If the SoCon picked up CCU, JMU, and W&M that would be much like Boston College, Miami and Va. Tech going to the ACC. Look at how the ACC looks right now in terms of football as well as basketball. There is no reason that can't or shouldn't happen at our level. Even if App or GSU bails for I-A this leaves the conference with quality football for years to come.

If we picked up these three teams I think the SoCon would be without a doubt the strongest football conference in I-AA. There is at least one team every year out of the ranks of ASU, JMU, W&M, GSU, FU if not all of them that is deep in the playoffs every year.

[Saint3333]

JMU, W&M, and CCU are decent football programs. But I'm not sure they are to 1-AA what Miami, VT, and BC are to 1-A.

No CAA/A-10 school is leaving for the SoCon. In fact I'd say ASU would leave for the CAA before one of their members joins the SoCon.

The CAA could be the next 1-A conference if ODU's football program takes off and they added a couple other programs like ASU... (just my little pipedream).

[SuperJon]

If anyone truly thinks Liberty is going I-A in the next 15 years they need to check themselves into the hospital. With that being said, the new athletic administration (mainly Jeff Barber) is doing everything the right way. He was at South Carolina for a long time before he came here so he knows what he's doing.

As for LU in the SoCon - I'd love it, but it'll never happen because of our chancellor, even though I think that's a tragedy (I've explained why beforE). LU's stuck right where they're at and not moving anywhere anytime soon.

[Go Apps]

If they expanded I believe a better choice would be Richmond, and JMU

SoCon tried to get JMU to join before and Failed they wanted to bring Richmond and W&M with them I think it would be a good fit- add Davidson back to the mix and you have a 12 team league

Then again too many loses just look at the A10 - stay put SoCon!

[Go...gate]

If anyone truly thinks Liberty is going I-A in the next 15 years they need to check themselves into the hospital. With that being said, the new athletic administration (mainly Jeff Barber) is doing everything the right way. He was at South Carolina for a long time before he came here so he knows what he's doing.

As for LU in the SoCon - I'd love it, but it'll never happen because of our chancellor, even though I think that's a tragedy (I've explained why beforE). LU's stuck right where they're at and not moving anywhere anytime soon.

This is what I was trying to say. Any upgrade has to be well thought out from an economic, facilities, conference affiliation, etc. point of view. But I think it will happen in 15-20 years.

[OL FU]

To get off on a tangent, does anybody know why Richmond and W&M left the SoCon?

[SuperJon]

This is what I was trying to say. Any upgrade has to be well thought out from an economic, facilities, conference affiliation, etc. point of view. But I think it will happen in 15-20 years.

It's possible in that time. It's going to cost $15 million to expand the stadium to hold 22,000 people. We have the Ops Center and the playing surface. We have 10,000 students and growing. However, we have no fan base, and football is not the priority at the school. I love Jerry as my chancellor and can't stand the man as a political figure and I disagree with him spiritually in many aspects. As a chancellor that man is great though. Most people (and I was one until I got here) don't know that there's a difference and that's why no conference will want Liberty.

[OL FU]

It's possible in that time. It's going to cost $15 million to expand the stadium to hold 22,000 people. We have the Ops Center and the playing surface. We have 10,000 students and growing. However, we have no fan base, and football is not the priority at the school. I love Jerry as my chancellor and can't stand the man as a political figure and I disagree with him spiritually in many aspects. As a chancellor that man is great though. Most people (and I was one until I got here) don't know that there's a difference and that's why no conference will want Liberty.

Unfortunately for the institution you cannot seperate the man, the chancellor and the religious leader. It is just not possible for the rest of us.

[Saint3333]

To get off on a tangent, does anybody know why Richmond and W&M left the SoCon?

Partially because the SoCon let an upstart ASU and other programs in (subpar athletics and academics in their eyes).

Guess things have changed huh.

[SoCon48]

I never said App wasn't good for the conference. The ASN is one example of that. I don't hate App, just some of the posters.

I say we need to try and go for, in this order:
Jacksonville State
Coastal Carolina
Tennessee Tech
Samford
Hampton
and perhaps Kennesaw St, Georgia St or UNCW: only if they commit to starting football.

The first three are legit, the last two offer zilch. My stomach turns every time I see their names mentioned. The also rans should be considered only if half the conference bolts unless W does indeed start football.

[mcveyrl]

The CAA could be the next 1-A conference if ODU's football program takes off and they added a couple other programs like ASU... (just my little pipedream).


I'd never thought of it like that, but that would be flippin' sweet (so long as I-A adopted a playoff)!!

[SuperJon]

Unfortunately for the institution you cannot seperate the man, the chancellor and the religious leader. It is just not possible for the rest of us.

I know it's not. I'm not denying that. I couldn't until I got here. One thing Jerry has is friends with money and that definitely hasn't hurt the school (brand new hockey arena and field ops center). Some of the stupid stuff he's said in the past hurts it though. It's just a fact of life. We're stuck in the Big South unless Jeff Barber can do some major convincing.

[OL FU]

Partially because the SoCon let an upstart ASU and other programs in (subpar athletics and academics in their eyes).

Guess things have changed huh.

:eyebrow: Snobs:D

I cannot remember if they went straight into another conference or were independant for some period.

[OL FU]

I'd never thought of it like that, but that would be flippin' sweet (so long as I-A adopted a playoff)!!

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

[OL FU]

I know it's not. I'm not denying that. I couldn't until I got here. One thing Jerry has is friends with money and that definitely hasn't hurt the school (brand new hockey arena and field ops center). Some of the stupid stuff he's said in the past hurts it though. It's just a fact of life. We're stuck in the Big South unless Jeff Barber can do some major convincing.

What happens after Jerry departs, assuming he doesn't walk among the living again three days later.:o

I can't believe I said that. :o

Seriously, any chances then. Not comparing institutions but the Jones here in Greenville have managed to maintain the lineage

[Shockerman]

I know this is a touch off topic, but would this shake down have any reprucussions for Centenary? They are currently in the mid-con and are a good distance from most schools in that conference. I ask because USD's task force and consulting firm have both recommended that the yotes go DI. Their President is on board so it is a done deal. One of their stated goals is to gain entrance into the Mid-con. Centenary leaving would open that spot and leave them with 6 core members. Enough to be viable. I care because being in the mid-con could lead to USD/UND in the gateway which may hurt the chances of the Shox and football.

Bottom line: Centenary to leave the mid-con for a southern conference?

[OL FU]

I know this is a touch off topic, but would this shake down have any reprucussions for Centenary? They are currently in the mid-con and are a good distance from most schools in that conference. I ask because USD's task force and consulting firm have both recommended that the yotes go DI. Their President is on board so it is a done deal. One of their stated goals is to gain entrance into the Mid-con. Centenary leaving would open that spot and leave them with 6 core members. Enough to be viable. I care because being in the mid-con could lead to USD/UND in the gateway which may hurt the chances of the Shox and football.

Bottom line: Cenetary to leave the mid-con for a southern conference?

OK I will show my ignorance.
Who What and Where is Centenary:eek:

[SuperJon]

What happens after Jerry departs, assuming he doesn't walk among the living again three days later.:o

I can't believe I said that. :o

Seriously, any chances then. Not comparing institutions but the Jones here in Greenville have managed to maintain the lineage

Jerry, Jr. is in place for when Jerry bites the big one. Jerry, Jr. has a Harvard law degree (I think it's Harvard) and does much if not all of the day-to-day things right now. Jonathan will take over the church after that. Everything's set in place but Jerry thinks he has about ten years left.

[KiddBrewer]

JMU, W&M, and CCU are decent football programs. But I'm not sure they are to 1-AA what Miami, VT, and BC are to 1-A.

No CAA/A-10 school is leaving for the SoCon. In fact I'd say ASU would leave for the CAA before one of their members joins the SoCon.

The CAA could be the next 1-A conference if ODU's football program takes off and they added a couple other programs like ASU... (just my little pipedream).


I dont see it very probable at all that App will be going anywhere, unless they stand to benefit by going I-A. If they are going to join a sub-par I-A conference, many, including myself, would MUCH rather stay in I-AA.

[OL FU]

Jerry, Jr. is in place for when Jerry bites the big one. Jerry, Jr. has a Harvard law degree (I think it's Harvard) and does much if not all of the day-to-day things right now. Jonathan will take over the church after that. Everything's set in place but Jerry thinks he has about ten years left.

Thus the I-A time frame:nod:
Gotta make sure you have your priorities straight:)

[SuperJon]

He wants to see it in his life time but it won't happen. He also wants 25,000 resident students and 25,000 DLP students. Right now we're at 10,000 resident students and about 12-15,000 DLP students. We're having a major housing problem right now so they better start building if they want 25,000 residents.

[Shockerman]

OK I will show my ignorance.
Who What and Where is Centenary:eek:


Exactly!

http://www.gocentenary.com

[Go...gate]

I know this is a touch off topic, but would this shake down have any reprucussions for Centenary? They are currently in the mid-con and are a good distance from most schools in that conference. I ask because USD's task force and consulting firm have both recommended that the yotes go DI. Their President is on board so it is a done deal. One of their stated goals is to gain entrance into the Mid-con. Centenary leaving would open that spot and leave them with 6 core members. Enough to be viable. I care because being in the mid-con could lead to USD/UND in the gateway which may hurt the chances of the Shox and football.

Bottom line: Centenary to leave the mid-con for a southern conference?

It would be a good move for the Gents.

[HiHiYikas]

I'd hate to see the SoCon expand to the point that everybody can't play everybody else in a season. This didn't occur to me until I noticed that UMass vs. JMU - which would far and away be the A10 game of the year - isn't on the schedule for '06.

If the conference did expand beyond it's capacity to schedule round-robin completely, I'd like to see two divisions with a conference championship at the end of the regular season.

I may be propsing any number of unfeasible things here. I'm definitely not a member of the "bigger is always better" camp.

[rokamortis]

I would prefer to see all conferences where every team has to play eachother. I don't like situations like JMU and UMass are in.

[Death Dealer]

I'd hate to see the SoCon expand to the point that everybody can't play everybody else in a season. This didn't occur to me until I noticed that UMass vs. JMU - which would far and away be the A10 game of the year - isn't on the schedule for '06.

If the conference did expand beyond it's capacity to schedule round-robin completely, I'd like to see two divisions with a conference championship at the end of the regular season.

I may be propsing any number of unfeasible things here. I'm definitely not a member of the "bigger is always better" camp.

I kinda feel the same way HIHI. I'd like to see some new blood, but at the same time, I kinda like it the way it is.....change is always disconcerting.:confused:

[B&G]

Didn't Robert Parish go to Centenary?

Anyway, I had thought about this a while back and I thought CCU was a no-brainer. I figured ETSU would be in if they got back into football but I guess that isn't going to happen. However, I have a strange feeling that Gardner-Webb would be in the running.

[B&G]

I would prefer to see all conferences where every team has to play eachother. I don't like situations like JMU and UMass are in.

Really? Look how much expansion has helped the ACC.... oh wait.

[OL FU]

Really? Look how much expansion has helped the ACC.... oh wait.

The ACC has a championship game to even out the lack of round robin.
With the playoffs we cannot have that.

[SuperJon]

Didn't Robert Parish go to Centenary?

Anyway, I had thought about this a while back and I thought CCU was a no-brainer. I figured ETSU would be in if they got back into football but I guess that isn't going to happen. However, I have a strange feeling that Gardner-Webb would be in the running.

Doubt that. They're coming into the Big South full-time in 08.

[OL FU]

Exactly!

http://www.gocentenary.com

Shreveport LA

That's a bit far from the rest of us:nod: xlolx

[OL FU]

I'd hate to see the SoCon expand to the point that everybody can't play everybody else in a season. This didn't occur to me until I noticed that UMass vs. JMU - which would far and away be the A10 game of the year - isn't on the schedule for '06.

If the conference did expand beyond it's capacity to schedule round-robin completely, I'd like to see two divisions with a conference championship at the end of the regular season.

I may be propsing any number of unfeasible things here. I'm definitely not a member of the "bigger is always better" camp.

I agree. I don't mind playing some schools once in basketball instead of twice. But Football I don't like it. Now I am an old guy, but in 1983 Furman played one more game than Western in the SoCon. Furman finished with a record of 8-0-1 (I think) and Western finished with a record of 7-0-1. Furman won the SoCon and guess who both teams tied. :nod: each other.

[B&G]

The ACC has a championship game to even out the lack of round robin.
With the playoffs we cannot have that.

Nah, I was moreso referring to Va Tech and Miami were coming in to make it a football superpower and we see how they're doing now.

[BearsCountry]

I know they wouldnt be considered for the SoCon but what is the status of West Georgia moving up?

[PaladinFan]

Jacksonville State has one of the best IAA atmospheres I have been in. They have great facilities and have an environment that rivals ASU and GSU on a game day. They have already struck up rivalries with Furman and UTC.

For those that think they would be the bottom of the SoCon are dreaming. I have personally watched them play each of the last 3 years and they are a decent QB away from being a very very good football team.

Furman and Wofford would probably like Samford as it gives another strong academic school that has a pretty decent program.

[PaladinFan]

I know they wouldnt be considered for the SoCon but what is the status of West Georgia moving up?

There are talks of Georgia State starting a program (atlanta) and UWG moving up (hour west of ATL). Honestly, if the SoCon adds a GA school it would most likely be a basketball school in the form of Kennesaw State.

[The Cats]

... but in 1983 Furman played one more game than Western in the SoCon. Furman finished with a record of 8-0-1 (I think) and Western finished with a record of 7-0-1. Furman won the SoCon and guess who both teams tied. :nod: each other.

Yeah, that still hurts.... would have been our 1st SoCon championship. Still waiting.

[gatadotcom]

Since everyone is so concerning WHO the SoCon will invite, let's use a scientific method of determining which universities will be the best fit for the conference.

http://www.gata.com/gataimages/SoConDartBoard.gif

[SuperJon]

Screw it, let's make a giant 26 team conference.

[OL FU]

Yeah, that still hurts.... would have been our 1st SoCon championship. Still waiting.

I am glad I got my facts close to correct. For once I did not look it up.

you got us back for the tie in the playoffs and that still hurts:bawling:

[OL FU]

Since everyone is so concerning WHO the SoCon will invite, let's use a scientific method of determining which universities will be the best fit for the conference.

http://www.gata.com/gataimages/SoConDartBoard.gif


Where is Tenn TEch

Hell where is Austin Peayxlolx

[BearsCountry]

Since everyone is so concerning WHO the SoCon will invite, let's use a scientific method of determining which universities will be the best fit for the conference.

http://www.gata.com/gataimages/SoConDartBoard.gif

Just looking at that map, West Georgia and Valdosta State would be great additions to the Big South.

[Sly Fox]

No arguments from our perspective.

[Death Dealer]

Since everyone is so concerning WHO the SoCon will invite, let's use a scientific method of determining which universities will be the best fit for the conference.

http://www.gata.com/gataimages/SoConDartBoard.gif

O.K., what happens if you hit an existing member of the SOCON? Are they knocked out of the conference?xlolx

[SO ILLmatic]

I didnt see Campbell University on the map.

Dont forget about the Fighting Camels starting football in 08, (Even though its non-scholly).

[ATrain]

I don't see Norfolk St. or NC A&T on that map...nor Winston-Salem State now that I think of it

[gophoenix]

A&T, WSSU, NC Central, Austin Peay, UNC Pembroke, Tenn Tech are all missing from the map, not that any have a real shot at working it out (meaning its not a mutual desire).

My thoughts is add 2 Football schools and 1 basketball school.

[Eaglegus2]

Question: Are there any schools in Florida wanting to move to I-AA for football?

Who are the I-AA schools in Florida? Besides Florida A&M, B-CC

What would schools like North Florida or Florida Southern bring to the table for a jump to I-AA?

[Dabnus Brickey]

I wouldn't even mess with PC, they're planning on D-I as soon as they possibly can. I read it in a local paper here in Charleston.

[OL FU]

I wouldn't even mess with PC, they're planning on D-I as soon as they possibly can. I read it in a local paper here in Charleston.


That's correct. They are joining the Big South:nod: :eyebrow:

[Dabnus Brickey]

That's correct. They are joining the Big South:nod: :eyebrow:

I know, but in today's Charleston Post and Courier, they are already talking about D-I A.

[OL FU]

I know, but in today's Charleston Post and Courier, they are already talking about D-I A.

Really. :eek:
They have lost their frickin' minds then.


and usually I don't make harsh judgements about schools who move on, but that is just dopey

[OL FU]

I know, but in today's Charleston Post and Courier, they are already talking about D-I A.

I looked for it on their web site and could not find it. If you do, could you post it for me?

[walliver]

I seriously doubt PC has any plans to join I-A. There have been a number of articles in which PC officials talk about how they hope to play I-A money games in the future. Apparently they don't think they will have enough scholarships to be "counters" for several years (4 or 5 I think). Currently they are limited to 25 scholarships by the SAC, so they have a long way to go before playing any money games.

Although PC is about the same size as Wofford, PC is in a much smaller county, has little major media presence, lower attendance (around 5000 +/-), and fewer athletic ties to current I-AA teams. I suspect it will take them longer to get I-AA up and running. PC initially looked at moving up shortly after Wofford moved, but held off for financial reasons.

Apparently PC approached the SoCon early on and was told that they had nothing to offer the SoCon. Barring a dramatic shakeup in I-AA, I doubt PC will be attractive to the SoCon any time in the near future. (Unless Furman moves to I-A:D )

[Dabnus Brickey]

I looked for it on their web site and could not find it. If you do, could you post it for me?
Yeah, here's the gist of what was said by the PC head coach, Tommy Spangler.

Its under the article "Big South coaches campaign for Buccaneers" under a smaller heading "Extra Points." Here's some excerpts. I couldn't copy and paste it.

"We are going to Division I and that's what I'm concerned with. We have to do what best in the long run for football."
This was his response to PC's scheduling problems. Apparently, they have seven road games next year and that the game with Newberry is in trouble for next season.

Maybe he's just talking about D-I, but it wasn't clear at all.

[OL FU]

Yeah, here's the gist of what was said by the PC head coach, Tommy Spangler.

Its under the article "Big South coaches campaign for Buccaneers" under a smaller heading "Extra Points." Here's some excerpts. I couldn't copy and paste it.

"We are going to Division I and that's what I'm concerned with. We have to do what best in the long run for football."
This was his response to PC's scheduling problems. Apparently, they have seven road games next year and that the game with Newberry is in trouble for next season.

Maybe he's just talking about D-I, but it wasn't clear at all.

I think so

[Sly Fox]

Here is the story and it nowhere mentions I-A ... it simply uses the Ralph-approved Division I terminology:


Extra points

--Newberry (10-0) already has locked up the South Atlantic Conference title, so Saturday's showdown at rival Presbyterian will be mostly about nostalgia. It looks like the game could be the 60th and final Bronze Derby game.

Presbyterian begins its move to Division I and the Big South next year, and already has seven road games slated for 2007.

PC wanted Newberry to return to Clinton next season for the second year in a row, but an agreement could not be reached, leaving the future of the series in doubt.

"Right now, every game I have on the schedule is an away game," PC athletic director Bee Carlton told the Laurens Advertiser.

"In the normal rotation of things, it would be our turn to go to Newberry (next year) ... We really needed them to come up and play here next year."

The Blue Hose have games with Furman, Western Carolina and future Big South foes set for 2007.

"We are going Division I, and that's what I'm concerned with," PC coach Tommy Spangler said. "We have to do what's best in the long run for PC football."

The 1:30 p.m. game will be televised by SCETV. But Carlton said the series could resume in the future.

"We plan to take a break and try to put it back together in a year or two, or maybe later," he said.

http://www.charleston.net/assets/webPages/departmental/news/Stories.aspx?section=sports&tableId=117574&pubDate=11/8/2006

[henfan]

According to both sets of fans, they cannot afford travel in the CAA and afford football at the same time. I am not saying its a definite for either. just that this is what their fans claim.

Then I'd suggest Georgia State & UNCW fans probably don't have the best perspective on how their respective schools' finances mesh with institutional priorities.

Understanding full well what the financial impact of expansion, UNCW voted twice in the last six years to expand the CAA to bring in Delaware, Towson, Hofstra & Drexel and, more recently, Northeastern & GA State. Hard to imagine they'd favor those moves if they were not committed to the CAA. Why wouldn't they have just bolted 3,4,5 years ago?

And GSU has been in the CAA less than two years. They must have understood what the costs would be prior to joining the CAA, no?

I'm not saying that UNCW and GSU will stay in the CAA forever and always. I just don't see them moving to the SoCon in the immediate future. But I could be very wrong and, secretly, it wouldn't break my heart.

[OL FU]

Here is the story and it nowhere mentions I-A ... it simply uses the Ralph-approved Division I terminology:



http://www.charleston.net/assets/webPages/departmental/news/Stories.aspx?section=sports&tableId=117574&pubDate=11/8/2006

Wow, maybe no more Bronze Derby.
You would think that would be a big blow to PC and Newberry fans.

[walliver]

The Blue Hose have games with Furman, Western Carolina and future Big South foes set for 2007.


Maybe Furman does want PC after all:smiley_wi

Western just wants a win.

[OL FU]

Maybe Furman does want PC after all:smiley_wi

Western just wants a win.

Now Wally, we have played PC for years, just like we played pre-SoCon Wofford. We are just trying to do our l'il neighbors a favor:smiley_wi

[Millwoch]

I hear that the Furman and Wofford presidents want teams that are closer to their respective schools academically. They are pushing for Samford and against CCU. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. As the article mentions adding more than one school. I will see General Rosa (president of the Citadel this weekend and will ask if I have the opportunity). I know that the teams that play football want to add football schools.

[SoCon48]

Quote:
Originally Posted by gophoenix
According to both sets of fans, they cannot afford travel in the CAA and afford football at the same time. I am not saying its a definite for either. just that this is what their fans claim.


Then I'd suggest Georgia State & UNCW fans probably don't have the best perspective on how their respective schools' finances mesh with institutional priorities.

Understanding full well what the financial impact of expansion, UNCW voted twice in the last six years to expand the CAA to bring in Delaware, Towson, Hofstra & Drexel and, more recently, Northeastern & GA State. Hard to imagine they'd favor those moves if they were not committed to the CAA. Why wouldn't they have just bolted 3,4,5 years ago?

And GSU has been in the CAA less than two years. They must have understood what the costs would be prior to joining the CAA, no?

I'm not saying that UNCW and GSU will stay in the CAA forever and always. I just don't see them moving to the SoCon in the immediate future. But I could be very wrong and, secretly, it wouldn't break my heart.

Just shows you how little the fans know about what really is going on with the institutions' thinking and the logistics.

[SoCon48]

I hear that the Furman and Wofford presidents want teams that are closer to their respective schools academically. They are pushing for Samford and against CCU. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. As the article mentions adding more than one school. I will see General Rosa (president of the Citadel this weekend and will ask if I have the opportunity). I know that the teams that play football want to add football schools.

Yep. In other words, they're afraid of CCU recruiting SoCon level talent in their back yard and know that Samford would be easier prey and not challenge for a spot in the Big 3.

[OL FU]

I hear that the Furman and Wofford presidents want teams that are closer to their respective schools academically. They are pushing for Samford and against CCU. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. As the article mentions adding more than one school. I will see General Rosa (president of the Citadel this weekend and will ask if I have the opportunity). I know that the teams that play football want to add football schools.

I have heard the same about Furman however typically I think Furman uses that as leverage to get a private for every public

[SoCon48]

Since everyone is so concerning WHO the SoCon will invite, let's use a scientific method of determining which universities will be the best fit for the conference.

http://www.gata.com/gataimages/SoConDartBoard.gif

Looking at map and although it's compressed and some of the helmets are pushed closer together than they actaully should show, the map makes you almost believe in Danny Boys footprint strategy. Stretching the SoCon's reach to include schools that return nothing is a losing proposition.

[OL FU]

Yep. In other words, they're afraid of CCU recruiting SoCon level talent in their back yard and know that Samford would be easier prey and not challenge for a spot in the Big 3.

I think recruiting would have to be any schools concern. That is one of the reasons I would not want PC in the conference. Not that they would compete immediately, but eventually they would.

Historically Furman has attempted to maintain a balance of privates/small and public large. Furman was a big supporter of Wofford so in the bigger picture recruiting has less to do with it than not wanting to get run over by the larger publics.

That does not mean that I agree with the position. But it is a better description of the position.

[walliver]

I think recruiting would have to be any schools concern. That is one of the reasons I would not want PC in the conference. Not that they would compete immediately, but eventually they would.

Historically Furman has attempted to maintain a balance of privates/small and public large. Furman was a big supporter of Wofford so in the bigger picture recruiting has less to do with it than not wanting to get run over by the larger publics.

That does not mean that I agree with the position. But it is a better description of the position.

I suspect in the long term, CCU is going to compete for recruits more against ASU and GSU than Furman and Wofford (and PC).

[ButlerGSU]

I hope GA State starts a I-AA program, they would be an excellent addition to the SoCon and a great rival for GSU.

[OL FU]

I hope GA State starts a I-AA program, they would be an excellent addition to the SoCon and a great rival for GSU.

Hey, this is just BVG's first year. Don't lower your standards yet:smiley_wi

[rokamortis]

I suspect in the long term, CCU is going to compete for recruits more against ASU and GSU than Furman and Wofford (and PC).

I think you are mostly correct, but I do know that even now that we have had a couple of local student athletes choose Coastal over Wofford. I don't know the full circumstances but one was a WR in 2005 and the other an OL from 2006. I believe both may have been due to family ties in the area.

[SoCon48]

I suspect in the long term, CCU is going to compete for recruits more against ASU and GSU than Furman and Wofford (and PC).

Not sure I understand that one. If it's because you think all of the athletes on App, GSU, and CCU's rosters wouldn't qualify academically at Wofford and Furman, I'd certainly disagree.

[SoCon48]

I think recruiting would have to be any schools concern. That is one of the reasons I would not want PC in the conference. Not that they would compete immediately, but eventually they would.

Historically Furman has attempted to maintain a balance of privates/small and public large. Furman was a big supporter of Wofford so in the bigger picture recruiting has less to do with it than not wanting to get run over by the larger publics.

That does not mean that I agree with the position. But it is a better description of the position.

Probably so.

[youwouldno]

I don't think recruiting is a major factor. Furman gets most of its players from Georgia, and then SC, AL, TN, FL, NC makes up the rest. Sure there is and will be competition for recruits, but the fact CCU is in SC itself doesn't matter... any addition to the SoCon would mean a slight increase in recruiting competition, unless it was a school outside the current geographic footprint.

I think Furman does look at academics as being a priority but I'm not sure that private/public is really that big a deal... it just so happens the private schools tend to have better academic reputations. I think a public school with App St- type academics wouldn't bother Furman at all. CCU is not at that level though, so that could be a problem.

Another thing that always bothers me about these discussions... expanding the geographic footprint, just for the sake of doing so, doesn't make any sense. In fact, conference alignments are determined in large part just by the natural distribution of athletic programs. The fact SC has so many I-AA programs, versus say Georgia, means it is both inevitable and logical that SC schools will be disproportionately represented in at least 1 conference.

[ChooChoo]

I hope GA State starts a I-AA program, they would be an excellent addition to the SoCon and a great rival for GSU.

The football faithful at Georgia State are still awaiting word on how "the double secret" football study turned out. Reportedly we should have heard something by October.
I'm hoping that no news is good news.
As for travel costs, yeah, it was reported that it has taxed the athletic budget by 50% since joining the CAA. Relying on our olympic sports, soccer, baseball, and lukewarm basketball programs to save the day is lofty at best.
I know many will argue that football can't solve all the problems, it drains money and resources, etc. Those my be true on some level. My point is that nothing has worked staying status quo with the same sports for the past 40 years. You have to appeal to your market, and in Georgia, it's football. With a school the size of Georgia State, in Atlanta, with nearly 30,000 students, 120,000 alumni, and thousands more on-campus beds arriving soon, there is no reason why we couldn't and shouldn't have a program.
As much as I like the CAA, State sticks out like a sore thumb. The most distant schools in the SoCon are still closer than we are to are closest CAA opponet, UNCW. Based on exposure, being in the CAA will be great. From a geographical, money, and travel point of view, SoCon is a MUCH better fit.
Though some of you say you wouldn't want an upstart program coming into the league, I'm sure most ADs, coaches, and recruits would disagree. Facing a University opponet (the 2nd largest in Georgia), in Atlanta, where exposure reaches 4 million, seems like it would be much more appealing than another, out-of-the-way/private/bible/5,000 student, college on a 2 lane road the in pineywoods.
(no offense to the pineywoods :) )
Of course all this is moot until/unless we get football. In the meantime we'll just sit and dwell in the red with our inept leaders and bask in mediocrity.

[Saint3333]

If G State starts a football I'd be happy for them to join the SoCon. They have the potential to go to the 1-A level and would add to my new 1-A conference pipedream.

[ASU Kep]

CCU, JSU, and EKU are the only schools that sound appealing to me.

[OL FU]

I can add a few more to the list, and have, but ( and I don't mean to offend anyone) startups without proven capabilities just makes no sense. So we take Georgia State with their 30,000 students who all probably sit in front of their TV and watch UGA or Tech. They start football and something goes wrong ( not saying it will but who knows which is my point) and they draw no fans, they get no recruits and they have bad team after bad team. But they are in the SoCon. :rolleyes:

The SoCon has been around for 80 plus years. In I-AA we have won more NCs than anybody. If we can't do better than a school that says we will start playing football in four years, maybe. We need to hang it up.

Georgia State, Kennesaw State, West Georgia and whoever else. Let them start football and/or move up to I-AA establish a track record and then we will talk. And if they decide they don't want to talk at that time in the future. Fine. They have that right.

[BeauFoster]

I can add a few more to the list, and have, but ( and I don't mean to offend anyone) startups without proven capabilities just makes no sense. So we take Georgia State with their 30,000 students who all probably sit in front of their TV and watch UGA or Tech. They start football and something goes wrong ( not saying it will but who knows which is my point) and they draw no fans, they get no recruits and they have bad team after bad team. But they are in the SoCon. :rolleyes:

The SoCon has been around for 80 plus years. In I-AA we have won more NCs than anybody. If we can't do better than a school that says we will start playing football in four years, maybe. We need to hang it up.

Georgia State, Kennesaw State, West Georgia and whoever else. Let them start football and/or move up to I-AA establish a track record and then we will talk. And if they decide they don't want to talk at that time in the future. Fine. They have that right.

Totally agree on all points here. People already say that the SoCon is down this year (it is at the top, but stronger at the bottom) and adding startups or teams that can't win their current conference does nothing for the league but diminish its status as one of the best. The SoCon is looking like it could become one of the strongest top to bottom conferences in the next few years, with Elon and others looking up. It would be foolish to add a weak team and bring everyone else down a notch

[lizrdgizrd]

If we expand by only one team, say CCU, that would give us 9 teams for football and 12 for basketball. I'd think those were about as good as you could get for scheduling in a full conference.

[PaladinFan]

I'm still wondering where GA State would actually play football. For those not familiar, it is smack dab in downtown Atlanta. The only thought I had was Bobby Dodd (at GA Tech).

Atlanta would be a great market to expand in. I'd love to see some more SoCon stuff heading down GA way. There are an absolute TON of ASU, Furman, Wofford, and GSU alums in Atlanta.

[Go...gate]

I know, but in today's Charleston Post and Courier, they are already talking about D-I A.

What, are they gonna bring back Bo Shembechler to be Coach?

[vmisport]

I haven't been on this site for a while. I haven't read much of this thread, but thought I'd comment (it may have already been covered). It does appear from a few sources that VMI has been asked to come back to SC, and VMI has to this point not accepted. VMI made a commitment to the BS and would like to see it work. Moreover, the BS schedule allows VMI to play in-state teams whereas the SC really didn't. The Carolina schools don't have this problem with scheduling their in-state competition, because, they're all in the SC. This year maybe playing the in-state schools wasn't too smart, but I think VMI under Reid will improve measurably in the next couple of years. That said, if Coastal is invited and Coastal decides that it wants to go to the SC, then VMI will need to think long and hard about staying put in the BS. Adding a couple of football teams to SC would likely allow for 2 divisions, which may allow flexibility that VMI would want so it could play in-state. What about the football teams from the BS join the SC and the basketball teams from the SC join the BS?

[The Cats]

Adding a couple of football teams to SC would likely allow for 2 divisions, which may allow flexibility that VMI would want so it could play in-state. What about the football teams from the BS join the SC and the basketball teams from the SC join the BS?

I'd prefer the number of football teams in the conference remain at a number that each school plays each school every year. Since you can't play a conference championship game in 1-AA, I hope we don't go to two divisions. But, we could give the basketball schools to the BS. :hurray:

[BigApp]

I still don't understand the need to add anyone:(

[ChooChoo]

I'm still wondering where GA State would actually play football. For those not familiar, it is smack dab in downtown Atlanta. The only thought I had was Bobby Dodd (at GA Tech).

Atlanta would be a great market to expand in. I'd love to see some more SoCon stuff heading down GA way. There are an absolute TON of ASU, Furman, Wofford, and GSU alums in Atlanta.

Herndon Stadium on the Morris Brown campus is sitting empty and its only 2 miles away.
It seats around 15,000.
With less than 100 students I'm sure they would take the rental fee.

[Purple Knight]

I'd prefer the number of football teams in the conference remain at a number that each school plays each school every year. Since you can't play a conference championship game in 1-AA, I hope we don't go to two divisions. But, we could give the basketball schools to the BS. :hurray:

I like your thinking.

This market thing doesn't make sense. Taking West Ga for the Atlanta market? Even if there is 1 mil in the market, only 3000 show up for the football games. What good is that to the SoCon? I would rather have Orangeburg, SC with 200,000 and SC State with 15,000 at the ball game.

[The Cats]

Herndon Stadium on the Morris Brown campus is sitting empty and its only 2 miles away.
It seats around 15,000.
With less than 100 students I'm sure they would take the rental fee.

Herndon Stadium


http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pictures/north_america/united_states/georgia/atlanta_herndon.jpg

[tarmac]

"I still don't understand the need to add anyone"


I think it's obvious, APP and GSU will be departing in the next few years.

[youwouldno]

Yup, sub .500 GSU will probably be invited into the ACC any time now. App St of course is SEC-bound.

[SoCon48]

I still don't understand the need to add anyone:(

Makes me wonder who may be getting cuts of the large entry fees charged.

[BearsCountry]

The reason to expand is to guarantee an even home and away conference schedule.

[OL FU]

The reason to expand is to guarantee an even home and away conference schedule.

:nod: :nod:

yes we need 9 FB teams.

[gophoenix]

Makes me wonder who may be getting cuts of the large entry fees charged.

$250,000 entry, why would anyone get a cut?


I still don't understand the need to add anyone

I think it is fairly obvious. If App and GSU are leaving, then the conference needs to protect itself. If those two leave, it's down to 6 members (the bare minimum). But then again, if the conference is really changing it's face again (like in the 60s/70s) then do you need to ask why? And then again, if no one is leaving, it's a matter of making a mid-major super-conference type of size, which seems to be some sort of trend right now.

[The Cats]

$250,000 entry, why would anyone get a cut?



I think it is fairly obvious. If App and GSU are leaving, then the conference needs to protect itself. If those two leave, it's down to 6 members (the bare minimum). But then again, if the conference is really changing it's face again (like in the 60s/70s) then do you need to ask why? And then again, if no one is leaving, it's a matter of making a mid-major super-conference type of size, which seems to be some sort of trend right now.

Come on, wanting to leave and leaving are two very, very different things. I'd still go for adding one good football school, so we could be 0-8 in the SoCon next year. (maybe with two years of no conference wins, something would be done by the administration about the sorry state of WCU football)

[OL FU]

http://www.al.com/sports/birminghamnews/mperrin.ssf?/base/sports/1164104673295680.xml&coll=2

Whoever ends up as the new Samford University head football coach - and there's no front-runner yet - may find himself in a new league early in his tenure.

Once again, Samford's name has come up as a possible new member of the venerable Southern Conference. Unlike before when then-independent Samford was spurned in the late'90s, this time, it's the SoCon that's the suitor.

[lizrdgizrd]

http://www.al.com/sports/birminghamnews/mperrin.ssf?/base/sports/1164104673295680.xml&coll=2

Whoever ends up as the new Samford University head football coach - and there's no front-runner yet - may find himself in a new league early in his tenure.

Once again, Samford's name has come up as a possible new member of the venerable Southern Conference. Unlike before when then-independent Samford was spurned in the late'90s, this time, it's the SoCon that's the suitor.
I don't know about that. Alabama is a bit of a trip for most SoCon schools.

[Saint3333]

http://www.al.com/sports/birminghamnews/mperrin.ssf?/base/sports/1164104673295680.xml&coll=2

Whoever ends up as the new Samford University head football coach - and there's no front-runner yet - may find himself in a new league early in his tenure.

Once again, Samford's name has come up as a possible new member of the venerable Southern Conference. Unlike before when then-independent Samford was spurned in the late'90s, this time, it's the SoCon that's the suitor.

Surely they're aren't going to add just Samford, maybe they could get JSU to come over too. I don't like the idea of two divisions in football but adding JSU, Samford, and CCU would help the SoCon in every sport and put them is a good position if a couple members left down the road.

[Millwoch]

I don't know about that. Alabama is a bit of a trip for most SoCon schools.


About 6 months ago, I had a discussion with a member of the Citadel board of visitors. His words were that the Furman and Wofford president(FU and Woofy fans call your administration and ADs to find out where they stand) were committed to bringing Samford into the SOCON, and not CCU. It may play out different, but presidents of those two schools want a more academic institution than CCU. I hearing that the Citadel president will likely side with the 2 above. That leaves the other socon schools to take sides. Not sure it has even been decided to expand, even though a vote was supposed to happen last week by the Presidents and ADs(on separate days).

I also know that Citadel AD Les Robinson(who knows everyone in college sports and has a lot of pull) is still pissed at CCU for comments made last year about football scheduling. I know this because David Bennet is a family friend and he has tried to make amends (my brother played for David at D-II level and have stayed close since move to CCU) I think they want in the SOCON and personnally think they have a chance if they play their cards right.

[OL FU]

Surely they're aren't going to add just Samford, maybe they could get JSU to come over too. I don't like the idea of two divisions in football but adding JSU, Samford, and CCU would help the SoCon in every sport and put them is a good position if a couple members left down the road.

I agree on not liking two division in football, but if we are going to expand we may not have a choice. It is far from the perfect scenario.

I also, agree on not taking Samford by themselves. From what I understand Samford has a good basketball and baseball team but they don't do much for football and I don't think that is going to change anytime soon

[OL FU]

About 6 months ago, I had a discussion with a member of the Citadel board of visitors. His words were that the Furman and Wofford president(FU and Woofy fans call your administration and ADs to find out where they stand) were committed to bringing Samford into the SOCON, and not CCU. It may play out different, but presidents of those two schools want a more academic institution than CCU. I hearing that the Citadel president will likely side with the 2 above. That leaves the other socon schools to take sides. Not sure it has even been decided to expand, even though a vote was supposed to happen last week by the Presidents and ADs(on separate days).

I also know that Citadel AD Les Robinson(who knows everyone in college sports and has a lot of pull) is still pissed at CCU for comments made last year about football scheduling. I know this because David Bennet is a family friend and he has tried to make amends (my brother played for David at D-II level and have stayed close since move to CCU) I think they want in the SOCON and personnally think they have a chance if they play their cards right.

Are you saying the Citadel would side with CCU? nevermind I re-read and understood. It has always been that way. The small schools want to keep the proportion between small and large the same.

It does not surprise me to find out that Furman would prefer Samford. I rarely agree with them on this. I don't know why they don't listen to me. :eyebrow:

[Millwoch]

No, Citadel will side with Furman and Wofford presidents against CCU. This again was 6 months ago, so things could have changed...that is why I said call them and find out where they stand...Citadel will vote on the same lines as the 2 upstate schools. I was told personally by Citadel board members after the SOCON presidents met last spring. have not heard any news from last weeks meeting.

All I am saying is if FU and Woofy want CCU, they will get in. If not, it will be fight. That is not to say the fans don't want it...but these presidents and ADs see things a little different. Financially and geographically, I personally think CCU is a great fit for the SOCON. A lot more politics here than most people realize.

[MplsBison]

If I was the SoCon I'd add ETSU with the requirement that they add football back within 5 years, Coastal, and Winthrop.

[AndrewFU21]

Samford would make sense to appease UTC and the private schools. I really hope this doesn't lead to having more than 9 football members, but I also have a hard time believing that CCU won't be a part of this conference sometime down the road.

[JMUKev]

90% of conference expansion decisions are made because of academics. schools move because they have a chance to position themselves with other good academic institutions, which raises their profile. Sure Ga. State is playing in a better all-around sports conference, but it also aligned itself with some great academic schools like William and Mary, JMU, George Mason, Drexel, etc. Virginia Tech and Miami are definitely playing in a better football conference now, but they are also now affiliated with some of the top academic schools in the country in UNC, Duke, Wake, UVa, etc. That was an opportunity the school couldn't pass up.

Keep in mind, these decisions are made by school presidents NOT by ADs. Academics drives the bus.

[BearsCountry]

Keep in mind, these decisions are made by school presidents NOT by ADs. Academics drives the bus.

Academics led Miami in the ACC. xlolx

[OL FU]

90% of conference expansion decisions are made because of academics. schools move because they have a chance to position themselves with other good academic institutions, which raises their profile. Sure Ga. State is playing in a better all-around sports conference, but it also aligned itself with some great academic schools like William and Mary, JMU, George Mason, Drexel, etc. Virginia Tech and Miami are definitely playing in a better football conference now, but they are also now affiliated with some of the top academic schools in the country in UNC, Duke, Wake, UVa, etc. That was an opportunity the school couldn't pass up.

Keep in mind, these decisions are made by school presidents NOT by ADs. Academics drives the bus.

That may be the case but I have to wonder why.
Outside of the Ivy and the Patriot, I don't look at one other single conference from and academic standpoint. Certainly most conferences are similar types of institutions (the ACC being one of the big exceptions). The ACC has many very good schools. But any large public school such as a UNC that has good academics also has some cruise control courses. It is the nature of the deal. You don't have 40,000 students without at least some of that.

I understand Furman's desire to to maintain balance but if we only want to align with similar types and academic institutions then we should grab Wofford Elon the Citadel and Davidson and then hook up with Samford, Presbyterian and form an new conference.:boring:

[Millwoch]

Keep in mind, these decisions are made by school presidents NOT by ADs. Academics drives the bus.


There were 2 separate votes held last week at SOCON meetings. On by the ADs and the other by the Presidents. I am sure the presidents vote is more the final say, but ADs do drive this discussion. As mentioned on the first page of this discusssion, the vote approved the expansion process and not the specific teams. The commisioner will present the viable teams to the Presidents for decision at a later date.

[Millwoch]

I understand Furman's desire to to maintain balance but if we only want to align with similar types and academic institutions then we should grab Wofford Elon the Citadel and Davidson and then hook up with Samford, Presbyterian and form an new conference.:boring:

Not that I do not agree that a new conference would be great, but the old dogs (pardon the pun) of the SOCON still pull a lot of weight. That is Furman, Citadel, App State (interesting that they are all football schools. I do not think they all have the same agendas though. I think that money and not academics will play the deciding role in this expansion. I am sure the SOCON has an idea of the impact of adding one school over another. They want all of their tourneys (baseball, basketball, etc.) continue to make money. If you look at the numbers from when the tourneys moved to Charleston over the past few years, all the tourney are breaking even and even making money. Add a CCU and those numbers go up even more. Add Samford and where to they go? I am not sure. Unfortunately this has nothing to do with a good football match up. So it will be interesting to see where it ends up.

[OL FU]

Not that I do not agree that a new conference would be great, but the old dogs (pardon the pun) of the SOCON still pull a lot of weight. That is Furman, Citadel, App State (interesting that they are all football schools. I do not think they all have the same agendas though. I think that money and not academics will play the deciding role in this expansion. I am sure the SOCON has an idea of the impact of adding one school over another. They want all of their tourneys (baseball, basketball, etc.) continue to make money. If you look at the numbers from when the tourneys moved to Charleston over the past few years, all the tourney are breaking even and even making money. Add a CCU and those numbers go up even more. Add Samford and where to they go? I am not sure. Unfortunately this has nothing to do with a good football match up. So it will be interesting to see where it ends up.


I like Maplebison's idea of Winthrop. Think that is possible?

[CCU97]

Throp could probably decide to go to the SoCon if Coastal goes....plus wouldn't it be great to see Marshall battle CofC on a regular basis!

[gophoenix]

Me and many other Elon fans would have no problem with Winthrop at all.

So now we have both Samford and Coastal on the table again in an official type manner. That ESPN article earlier in the year said those two and Georgia State. Now let's see if that one pans out in official articles.

[Saint3333]

10 football teams, what would that schedule look like? Would we play everybody but one team? I assume each team would be paired up with a rival they'd play every year:

ASU-WCU
Samford-UTC
Furman-GSU
CCU-Citadel
Wofford-Elon???

It would be a shame if ASU, Furman, GSU didn't play each other every year though.

[BigApp]

So, now we're discussing CCU and Winthrop. 2 more South Carolina schools...certainly fits in the 'footprint'...

I can't understand, from a football standpoint, why CCU would even consider the SoCon. At best, you're looking each year at being the #4 or #5 team in the conference. That ain't getting you into the playoffs!

Stay where you're at, keep playing tough(er) OOC schedules. Stay being the big-dog. That's your best bet to being a perennial playoff team.

[thirdgendin]

but the old dogs (pardon the pun) of the SOCON still pull a lot of weight. That is Furman, Citadel, App State

Wouldn't the real "old dogs" actually include Davidson rather than App State? I'm sure they lost some clout though with their brief departure a few decades ago.

[lizrdgizrd]

10 football teams, what would that schedule look like? Would we play everybody but one team? I assume each team would be paired up with a rival they'd play every year:

ASU-WCU
Samford-UTC
Furman-GSU
CCU-Citadel
Wofford-Elon???

It would be a shame if ASU, Furman, GSU didn't play each other every year though.
With 10 teams, why wouldn't you play everyone? You'd still have 2 (and maybe soon 3) games that are OOC. I'd think that would be the limit without moving to a split conference though.

[OL FU]

So, now we're discussing CCU and Winthrop. 2 more South Carolina schools...certainly fits in the 'footprint'...

I can't understand, from a football standpoint, why CCU would even consider the SoCon. At best, you're looking each year at being the #4 or #5 team in the conference. That ain't getting you into the playoffs!

Stay where you're at, keep playing tough(er) OOC schedules. Stay being the big-dog. That's your best bet to being a perennial playoff team.

I think CCU sees themself as improving over time and the SoCon assisting in that improvement.

Also, CCU has been discussed for along time. Winthrop is a little newer to the equation and I only mentioned them because they are a very very good bball program. I have not heard of any interest on Winthrop's part.

[Dabnus Brickey]

I say Big South should expand.

[gophoenix]

I agree with BigApp, no reason we can't play everyone in a 10 team conference.

Winthrop isn't coming to the SoCon. None of their fans or admins seem to want it even if it was an option. They like being the big fish in a small pond.

As for what else, who knows. I know some dislike Samford and other do. And some dislike Coastal and others do. When UTC decided to stay, I think we all knew something was going to happen west of most of us, whether that is Samford or not. Someone will be added out that way..... something just points to that.

[thirdgendin]

2 non-conference games would leave little options for ADs to schedule home games, especially if one of those games is used up each year with a I-A game on the road.

Unless the NCAA approves the 12-game regular season for I-AA teams, I have a heard time seeing a scenario where SoCon teams would play 9 conference games each season.

[MarkCCU]

I think we should have a 12 game season...more football for the fans, more chances for teams to make the playoffs and be the top team

[MplsBison]

I can't understand, from a football standpoint, why CCU would even consider the SoCon. At best, you're looking each year at being the #4 or #5 team in the conference. That ain't getting you into the playoffs!

Then again, in this year's SoCon, they'd be the #2 team, possibly #1.

[MplsBison]

So, is ETSU not even being considered?

If they add football back, which I think they will, why not?

[OL FU]

So, is ETSU not even being considered?

If they add football back, which I think they will, why not?

First, I have heard that they are struggling with the finances of adding football back into the mix and it may be much farther down the road that originally anticipated.

Second, their leaving created bad blood since ETSU supposedly blocked VMI from remaining in the conference while playing football in a different conference. After blocking VMI from remaining in the conference, ETSU dropped football. It did not set well with the other SoCon Members. So the SoCon told them bye bye

[Lapper]

It's all about the $$$ ladies and gentlemen. If you think that Samford fans are going to travel, xidiotx . Most SoCon schools are way too far for their fan base to travel. Coastal fans travel well.

As for academics, how well did our student athletes do last year? I hear they're doing even better this year, football included :eek: . So you must be referring to the lack of graduate programs?

The athletic programs here at Coastal are good all around, not just in football. Our basketball team swept Winthrop in the regular season last year, only to be beaten by them in the Big South Championship IN THEIR HOUSE by ONE point. Our baseball, soccer, golf (who is #6 in the NATION last time I checked) and track teams are all excellent programs.

Does Samford have these credentials: location, fans who travel well (aka: more $$$ going to your school), academics, WELL-ROUNDED athletic program?

We're in. :thumbsup:

[BigApp]

Then again, in this year's SoCon, they'd be the #2 team, possibly #1.

:rolleyes:

Until you do a little (really, it doesn't take much) research and see they lost to bottom half Socon teams (Elon, GaSouthern). 2 Losses this season puts them in a tie at #3, with 4 other teams to play, including App.

: retard :

Keep up the Hate MB, it's really becoming of you.

[mcveyrl]

First, I have heard that they are struggling with the finances of adding football back into the mix and it may be much farther down the road that originally anticipated.

Second, their leaving created bad blood since ETSU supposedly blocked VMI from remaining in the conference while playing football in a different conference. After blocking VMI from remaining in the conference, ETSU dropped football. It did not set well with the other SoCon Members. So the SoCon told them bye bye


I live near ETSU (Kingsport, and work in Johnson City) and can confirm point one. Finances are a real problem. They've also toyed around with taking the Mini-Dome down and would want to build a football stadium. Problem is that the Mini-Dome is considered a classroom building for funding purposes since it houses a few classrooms.

The word was that the elimination of football would open up their ability to focus on basketball. When they couldn't even win the A-Sun, despite hosting the tournament, I think some alumni got impatient (alumni never do that!!) and started the football talk. If the basketball team is mildly successful, the football talk will probably die down for a while, IMO. It didn't help that we're close to Boone and we watched as they won the NC last year. I think a lot of locals thought, "Hey, ETSU could do that if they had football!!" No clue.

I also don't think they would go back in to the SoCon because I don't think they would leave the A-Sun in basketball (or any other sports).

[OL FU]

It's all about the $$$ ladies and gentlemen. If you think that Samford fans are going to travel, xidiotx . Most SoCon schools are way too far for their fan base to travel. Coastal fans travel well.

As for academics, how well did our student athletes do last year? I hear they're doing even better this year, football included :eek: . So you must be referring to the lack of graduate programs?

The athletic programs here at Coastal are good all around, not just in football. Our basketball team swept Winthrop in the regular season last year, only to be beaten by them in the Big South Championship IN THEIR HOUSE by ONE point. Our baseball, soccer, golf (who is #6 in the NATION last time I checked) and track teams are all excellent programs.

Does Samford have these credentials: location, fans who travel well (aka: more $$$ going to your school), academics, WELL-ROUNDED athletic program?

We're in. :thumbsup:

First let me tell you I support CCU entering the SoCon.

As to point one, Samford is about UT Chatt ( I think we would all prefer JSU to Samford) and Chattanooga. Not dollarsl.

Point two, it is not about student athletes it is about the reputation of the school itself. I don't know where CCU stands there but the Furman Admin and I imagine the Wofford admin can be a little snooty on that issue.

AS far as the rest. I went to the CCU game this year and was very impressed with the facilities and the environment. CCU is serious about athletics. Samford has not been ( at least from a funding stanpoint)

FU and Wofford and others have been pretty set in their ways with respect to keeping small privates in the SoCon so we will see. I just wish they would hurry the F Up.

[youwouldno]

I think finding UTC a buddy might take some time. I would want to see Samford step up before moving, rather than hoping they will after.

CCU is something of a no-brainer. I think the main delay is probably the conference trying to figure out an overall plan, in terms of how much to expand. CCU wouldn't hurt the SoCon in any sport I'm aware of, but would make the SoCon ridiculous in baseball, Peterson is going to get their basketball program going, and CCU will be a solid football member too.

[OL FU]

:rolleyes:

Until you do a little (really, it doesn't take much) research and see they lost to bottom half Socon teams (Elon, GaSouthern). 2 Losses this season puts them in a tie at #3, with 4 other teams to play, including App.

: retard :

Keep up the Hate MB, it's really becoming of you.

They also beat two teams in the top half of the conference:o
and that would have made Furman have two losses, Wofford have three which would have made a big log jam tie with CCU somewhere around 2nd:eek:

[FU97]

I think you have to do something out west to appease UTC. That said, I think CCU offers more in more sports than Samford does. I see two choices. You can either add 1 football school to get to 9 or you can add 4 to get to 12. Having 10 or 11 doesn't really work. Playing 9 regular season games really limits your OOC opportunities, particularly with an 11 game schedule.

[OL FU]

I think you have to do something out west to appease UTC. That said, I think CCU offers more in more sports than Samford does. I see two choices. You can either add 1 football school to get to 9 or you can add 4 to get to 12. Having 10 or 11 doesn't really work. Playing 9 regular season games really limits your OOC opportunities, particularly with an 11 game schedule.

You are correct, we don't want a SWAC style 9 game mandate:)

[ETSU-06]

I live near ETSU (Kingsport, and work in Johnson City) and can confirm point one. Finances are a real problem. They've also toyed around with taking the Mini-Dome down and would want to build a football stadium. Problem is that the Mini-Dome is considered a classroom building for funding purposes since it houses a few classrooms.

The word was that the elimination of football would open up their ability to focus on basketball. When they couldn't even win the A-Sun, despite hosting the tournament, I think some alumni got impatient (alumni never do that!!) and started the football talk. If the basketball team is mildly successful, the football talk will probably die down for a while, IMO. It didn't help that we're close to Boone and we watched as they won the NC last year. I think a lot of locals thought, "Hey, ETSU could do that if they had football!!" No clue.

I also don't think they would go back in to the SoCon because I don't think they would leave the A-Sun in basketball (or any other sports).
It's true that football's return to ETSU is uncertain at best, but there are quite a few people working to make it a reality. Support seems to be gathering from the administration as well as the community and student body. We're expecting some form of an announcement on the issue around Dec. 20th of this year. If we decide to bring it back it could be a couple years down the road before we actually play the first game.

The mini dome is not coming down anytime soon. It may have very well been the death of the program, but its too valuable for other campus purposes. We have several options for building a stadium on campus, and this is vital for any hope we could have for a successful program in the future.

As for the Atlantic Sun, as a student and a fan I think I can speak for 99%of ETSU fans that we want out as soon as possible. This is a go nowhere conference that we don't belong in. If the die hard basketball fans want to have a solid basketball program, they realize that football needs to be played here again. We don't begin to pretend that we can compete with App. State or Furman, etc. from the get go, but we are hopeful that we can get the ball rolling and someday be a competitive force in the SoCon or OVC or whoever will give us the chance.

[mcveyrl]

It's true that football's return to ETSU is uncertain at best, but there are quite a few people working to make it a reality. Support seems to be gathering from the administration as well as the community and student body. We're expecting some form of an announcement on the issue around Dec. 20th of this year. If we decide to bring it back it could be a couple years down the road before we actually play the first game.

The mini dome is not coming down anytime soon. It may have very well been the death of the program, but its too valuable for other campus purposes. We have several options for building a stadium on campus, and this is vital for any hope we could have for a successful program in the future.

As for the Atlantic Sun, as a student and a fan I think I can speak for 99%of ETSU fans that we want out as soon as possible. This is a go nowhere conference that we don't belong in. If the die hard basketball fans want to have a solid basketball program, they realize that football needs to be played here again. We don't begin to pretend that we can compete with App. State or Furman, etc. from the get go, but we are hopeful that we can get the ball rolling and someday be a competitive force in the SoCon or OVC or whoever will give us the chance.

I don't think I disagree with any of that. However, there was an initial push to look in to taking the Mini-Dome down, but as you pointed out, as a classroom building (it also houses a lot of indoor athletics) it's not going anywhere.

This raises another few issues. Where's the stadium going to go? and Who's going to pay for it? Obviously, these are the hurdles everybody's trying to deal with now and these, combined with the conference affiliation problem, might be too much to overcome.

Also, I know that fans who know understand that ETSU can't just pick up where they left off (or better), I was talking about your typical local casual observer who saw the success of ASU.

As has been pointed out here, I don't think the SoCon is going to take ETSU back, but the OVC might be a good fit to start off. I'm also not sure if they made any kind of time commitment to the A-Sun or not, but I agree, the longer they are in the A-Sun, the worse off they are.

I for one would love to see ETSU playing football. Would make for a good Saturday when JMU's not at home (or in Boone).

[ETSU-06]

I don't think I disagree with any of that. However, there was an initial push to look in to taking the Mini-Dome down, but as you pointed out, as a classroom building (it also houses a lot of indoor athletics) it's not going anywhere.

This raises another few issues. Where's the stadium going to go? and Who's going to pay for it? Obviously, these are the hurdles everybody's trying to deal with now and these, combined with the conference affiliation problem, might be too much to overcome.

Also, I know that fans who know understand that ETSU can't just pick up where they left off (or better), I was talking about your typical local casual observer who saw the success of ASU.

As has been pointed out here, I don't think the SoCon is going to take ETSU back, but the OVC might be a good fit to start off. I'm also not sure if they made any kind of time commitment to the A-Sun or not, but I agree, the longer they are in the A-Sun, the worse off they are.

I for one would love to see ETSU playing football. Would make for a good Saturday when JMU's not at home (or in Boone).
You're very correct that they considered bringing the dome down, and I for one hope they do eventually. It's in pretty bad shape. Lots of issues there though.

I've heard several scenarios for a stadium, none of which are definitive though. Perhaps the best and most financially realistic proposal is to expand the plans for the soccer stadium they're building to accomodate football. They've built two nice fields on the west side of campus, and plan to add about 1,000 seats for soccer games. Expanding the plan to accomodate a football sized crowd seems realistic and fairly cheap since the field is already there. The university also has a good amount of acreage that could be developed for a football only facility. The worst option (one that would kill football all over again) is to build an off campus "regional" stadium somewhere in the tricities. (near the airport or fairgrounds are the most mentioned) The idea here is to get funding from the county to make a multi-use facility, which would save us money. This is a terrible idea though.

The SoCon has every right to not let us back in. ETSU embarrassed itself when they went about dropping football the way they did, and I don't expect the SoCon to welcome us back with open arms. We played UTC in basketball last week and it was great to pretend for at least one night that we were back playing SoCon sports. It's hard for students and fans to get excited about Stetson or Kennesaw St. on a nightly basis. We need to pay whatever exit fee the A-Sun demands and get the heck out!

The administration released a survey yesterday to measure student interest and support on bringing football back. It mentioned implementing a $50-$125 yearly football fee for 5-6 years. At 15,000+ students, this could bring in close to $2 million a year to get this thing up and running. I've also heard lots of unspecific rumors of major donations or corporate funding ventures, but that's totally up in the air.


I think if done right ETSU can bring back football to level that exceeds the prior history of the program. Like you say though, we have major hurdles to clear. We don't even have a helmet on campus right now.

It's good to talk to a fellow resident of NeTn. Good luck to your Dukes this weekend in the playoffs. I've seen them play up at VT a few times and you guys have a really great program with great fans.

[OL FU]

The SoCon has every right to not let us back in. ETSU embarrassed itself when they went about dropping football the way they did, and I don't expect the SoCon to welcome us back with open arms

good to hear from a realistic fan:nod:

Stranger things have happened, butthe one thing that I believe I can say with accuracy is that the SoCon would need evidence that ETSU was serious about football. and my guess is that would take a lot of convincing.

The SoCon has gone through numerous changes over its 80plus year history. It can take programs coming and going, but it can't take a program announcing (practically all of a sudden) that they are dropping football.

Best of luck, I hope ETSU works it out.

[gophoenix]

Then again, in this year's SoCon, they'd be the #2 team, possibly #1.

Bison Boy sure loves to talk doesn't he.

First, I like Coastal, so no disrespect to them here.

So let's see. Coastal went 2-2 against the SoCon as it is. They squeaked by Wofford, They squeaked by a hurt Furman and lost to both GSU and Elon. Two losses means that wouldn't be first and puts them clearly in contention for third, with only 4 of 8 teams under their belt.

[MoreheadEagle]

I understand the SoCon schools concern about not allowing other schools to join unless they play football. The OVC will only allow schools to join if they play some form of football, that's why PFL Morehead State and former PFL Austin Peay can stay in. IMO that rule has hurt the OVC since Belmont wanted to join and couldn't b/c of the lack of football.

TSU and Samford are both apparently looking at going elsewhere. That would leave the OVC with its core of schools like EKU, Murray, TTU, and Morehead. As much as EKU likes to talk, they're not leaving the OVC for the SoCon or anyone and if TSU and another team leaves then the OVC will have to change its football rule to allow Northern Kentucky (moving to D-1 in a few years) or Belmont to join.

ETSU should start non-scholly football and rejoin the OVC. We'd love to have them back.:hurray:

[Appdad]

90% of conference expansion decisions are made because of academics. schools move because they have a chance to position themselves with other good academic institutions, which raises their profile. Sure Ga. State is playing in a better all-around sports conference, but it also aligned itself with some great academic schools like William and Mary, JMU, George Mason, Drexel, etc. Virginia Tech and Miami are definitely playing in a better football conference now, but they are also now affiliated with some of the top academic schools in the country in UNC, Duke, Wake, UVa, etc. That was an opportunity the school couldn't pass up.

Keep in mind, these decisions are made by school presidents NOT by ADs. Academics drives the bus.

Georgia State left the ASun due to academics????

Stetson, Belmont, Mercer to name three match up with the best in the country.

Academics didn't figure into the equation of why GSU left the ASun. The GSU Prez thought they could raise more alumni $ with the switch. So far that thought has not materialized.

[Seven Would Be Nice]

Kennesaw has expressed interest (to my knowledge) to start d-1 football, most likely at the 1-AA...excuse me..D-1 Champsionship Subdivision level (xlolx ). I haven't heard anything but I see Valdosta State moving up within 10-15 years, they seem to be a very solid d2 program.

Both I see as potential teams for the SoCon.

I think GaState is a few years away from a program.

[OL FU]

I must like this thread since I keep reviving it.

Saw some interesting talk on the UFFP about CCU having plans to move to I-A (BS - is that right - BS) within a reasonably short period of time. I am not one of those that thinks moving to I-A is a bad thing, but I am curious to know whether anyone knows anything.

[CCU97]

Coastal does have dreams of moving to the Div I BS but that is a minimum of 15 yrs down the road....right now it is just a pipedream with lots of people blowing smoke....but the AD and the current president have expressed interest in doing so somewhere in the future....but it will be distant future....more likely 25 years.

[OL FU]

Coastal does have dreams of moving to the Div I BS but that is a minimum of 15 yrs down the road....right now it is just a pipedream with lots of people blowing smoke....but the AD and the current president have expressed interest in doing so somewhere in the future....but it will be distant future....more likely 25 years.

That wouldn't bother me and that seems more reasonable than some of the talk I heard.

[MarkCCU]

I must like this thread since I keep reviving it.

Saw some interesting talk on the UFFP about CCU having plans to move to I-A (BS - is that right - BS) within a reasonably short period of time. I am not one of those that thinks moving to I-A is a bad thing, but I am curious to know whether anyone knows anything.

i've heard some talk but that is way down the line..time span 15-20 years like CCU97 said. But lets not put the cart before the horse. We must improve in every aspect of the game, as well as move into a better conference and become a great school like GSU was or how ASU is last year and this year

[OL FU]

i've heard some talk but that is way down the line..time span 15-20 years like CCU97 said. But lets not put the cart before the horse. We must improve in every aspect of the game, as well as move into a better conference and become a great school like GSU was or how ASU is last year and this year


:eyebrow: :eyebrow: :bang: :p :D

[Sly Fox]

Come on, Catfish. You don't need to suck up to these clowns yet. You're still in the Big South right now.

And how dare you CCU guys steal all of the ridicule of stepping up from us. xlolx

[Pard4Life]

Who have been the success stories in terms of a team going from I-AA to I-A? Marshall? UConn? Boise St.?

Rest seem to have stunk big-time.. i.e. Troy State, Florida Atlantic, Idaho.

[rokamortis]

I must like this thread since I keep reviving it.

Saw some interesting talk on the UFFP about CCU having plans to move to I-A (BS - is that right - BS) within a reasonably short period of time. I am not one of those that thinks moving to I-A is a bad thing, but I am curious to know whether anyone knows anything.

I don't think that there are any official plans or studies so everything else is just speculation. We planned to have 8,000+ seats when we started. We also planned to have a fieldhouse in year 2 or 3. So, all plans have complications let alone the wishes and speculation.

I do think that the main focus is to succeed at FCS right now and then see what opportunities arise. I am a firm believer that if we moved to the SoCon that we would stay FCS longer. Plus, we'll have a new president in 7 months, so who knows what that person will want to do in terms of athletics. I think everyone agrees that we have a lot of stuff to do across the board before we are ready to make a jump.

[youwouldno]

By the time Coastal could move up, who knows what college football will look like? Think about how different it was 25 years ago. So any speculation in that regard is totally without value. In other words, it should have zero bearing on anything that goes on right now, i.e. SoCon expansion and CCU.

I will say that most people overestimate how many programs really jump to the BCS from the FCS. Usually there are conference factors that make the move feasible... UConn doesn't count at all, because they were allowed to go BCS anytime due to their Big East standing (and bylaws written into it). Marshall is a huge exception too, because of what happened to their program... they just wound up back where they started. And those two teams still suck, not to mention Idaho and Troy.

Back to the topic of the thread... the SoCon is in a weird spot. I wonder if the conference would like a 12 game regular season, so that we could add CCU and a buddy for UTC.

[Tealblood]

The AD nor the Pres. at CCU have made no such claims of jumping to BS.

[Tealblood]

having reread that my english sucks. We have no plans of jumping to BS

[OL FU]

having reread that my english sucks. We have no plans of jumping to BS



xlolx xlolx

You write like I talk:eyebrow:

[MarkCCU]

Come on, Catfish. You don't need to suck up to these clowns yet. You're still in the Big South right now.

And how dare you CCU guys steal all of the ridicule of stepping up from us. xlolx

Catfish doesn't suck up!!!! Catfish doesn't brown nose!!!!

xcoffeex :thumbsup: :nono: xcoffeex :thumbsup: :nono:

[MarkCCU]

The AD nor the Pres. at CCU have made no such claims of jumping to BS.

i'm not saying they have, it's just stuff heard around the water cooler...xcoffeex

[OL FU]

Like I said, I have no problem with a program that aspires to any level different than CS. (you don't know how hard it was not to type I-AA, or maybe you do) and I think a long term approach for CCU is fine. I hope Furman and others wise up to make the SoCon the best it can be for the medium term and invites CCU or a comparable school. No offense to Samford but they are not what the SoCon needs unless they show very quick changes in the resources they allocate to football.

[gophoenix]

I want CCU and I'm sure the other baseball programs would too. Adding Coastal would take the SoCon possibly into the top 6 baseball conferences. CofC, GSU, UNCG, Elon, Western, The Citadel and Furman already have fine baseball programs and it is virtually neck and neck every year with all at or near the top 100. Add Coastal in there and App in the this year or next and the conference gets unbelievably strong.

I'd love to see it.

And a new conference member needs a 3/4 vote. So, that's 9 votes. If App, Furman and Wofford all really voted no, that pretty much ends that unless App can be swayed.

As for academics; that's perception. It wasn't long ago that Coastal had the highest non-graduation rate (not flunk out rate) of any D-I school. That had NCAA sanctions not that long ago too. It looks like Coastal is changing it's image, but that takes a long time to really change overall. It took Elon almost 40 years to change from the 2nd choice school into a top regional school.

[lizrdgizrd]

It took Elon almost 40 years to change from the 2nd choice school into a top regional school.
It's not a second choice school? :smiley_wi

[CCU2003]

What we should be talking about is the appointment of a new President at CCU in the next year. That could have the biggest impact of anything- more than a move to the socon, more than talks of a new stadium, ect. A new President, particularly if they bring in somebody from the outside could have a huge + or - effect on the program and funding. I know the only in house candidate is DeCenzo and he is very pro-football but the others- who knows?....we could see a new face come in and change our whole landscape!

[gophoenix]

You'd hope that any president recognizes that sports in general is the best cheap advertising you can get for a school. And one of the best ways to get alumni back on campus, which in turn makes them more likely to give.

[ASUMountaineer]

Unless someone knows of an impending departure, I hope we do not go above 9 football playing schools. I do not want to be in the position where every school does not play a common in conference schedule.

Amen FU. I would like no added football schools, unless we lose one. I don't want to see the SoCon's status in football deminished like the ACC's status in basketball has taken a hit. Last year, less teams made the big dance from the ACC because the conference wasn't considered "tough", but "top heavy". Messing with the scheduling and the status of the SoCon as a football powerhouse is not what I hope to see happen. (this was in no way a knock on other schools (i.e.: CCU)

[AppMan]

:eyebrow: Snobs:D

I cannot remember if they went straight into another conference or were independant for some period.

W&M and Richmond left the SoCon in 1976 and were independent for a number of years before Richmond joined (of all the nerve!) the old Yankee Conference in 1986 and W&M followed suit in 1993.

[AppMan]

I hear that the Furman and Wofford presidents want teams that are closer to their respective schools academically. They are pushing for Samford and against CCU. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. As the article mentions adding more than one school. I will see General Rosa (president of the Citadel this weekend and will ask if I have the opportunity). I know that the teams that play football want to add football schools.

I have been involved with this conference since the early 70's and can tell you this small academic vs large public thing has been at the core of the SoCon's problems for years. By years I mean YEARS. Following the pullout of the ACC schools in 1953 the SoCon was for the most part a private school league with The Citadel, Davidson, George Washington, Furman, Richmond, VM-1, and W&M along with VPI and WVa. ECU was added in 1964 followed by a VPI pull out in 1965 then WVa departure in 1968. For the better part of 10 years these small high academic schools had the league pretty much to themselves. They tolerated the infidels from ECU, but could keep them in their places because of the overwhelming voting power as a group. GW left in 1970 and ASU was added to give ECU some relief, but the power still resided with the little guys. ECU expressed their desire to play football on the level of unc-ch, nc state and to stabalize the league new commissioneer Ken German looked to bring in East Tennessee, Marshall, UTC, and WCU in 1978. That group of mongrels didn't sit well with Richmond and W&M. They joined ECU and bolted for independent status in 1976. All of a sudden the balance of power shifted to the state supported schools 5 to 4 and ever since there has been constant positioning between the schools (as a group) to get a leg up on the other. The additon of non-football schools CofC and UNCG complicated the deal even more. Today we have conference that is comprised of five small high academic schools (one non-football playing) and six larger state supported institutions, two which do not play the conference's marqee sport of football. I fully expect someone like UNCW to be added along with Coastal & (I can't believe I'm saying this) Samford. Talk about a screwed up conference!

[walliver]

I just hope we don't get into the mess the old Southwest Conference developed, 4 publics and 4 privates produced complete gridlock and the SWC is no more.

[youwouldno]

I hope its not just a public vs. private battle. I could understand Furman and Wofford trying to block CCU, though I disagree with that, but that doesn't mean they have to push for Samford. CCU at least has some things to offer the SoCon. Samford is a solid basketball school but that's it.

I've wondered about this before, but doesn't the potential for a 12-game schedule make it hard to really decide on expansion? 12 games would allow for a compromise, admitting both CCU and Samford, but that can't happen with an 11 game schedule IMO.

I'm not quite as opposed to adding a basketball-only school as some are. Currently the divisions for basketball are uneven, so if CCU and Samford both came in, a b-ball only would balance them. Of course admitting one new member would have the same effect.

[gophoenix]

I just don't see it as the big problem AppMan does. Elon and The Citadel both have proven not to move solely on the "small" or total "academic" side of everything.

Want to really complicate matters:
Medium Public - App, GSU, UNCG
Small Public - UTC,Western, CofC
Military - The Citadel
Private - Furman, Davidson, Elon, Wofford

I'm sorry, as much as Elon is classified as "tiny" to the world of private schools; Western and UTC are small in the world of public schools. A smaller public schools and a medium-sized public school also have different priorities.

Then break it down even more:
football - App, Elon, Furman, Western, GSU, Wofford, The Citadel, UTC
non-football - Davidson, UNCG, CofC

Then to break it down ever more, you have an east and west mountains problem. The mountains make travel from eastern VA, NC, and SC very long to and from the western side of the mountains. So, UTC becomes an anomaly.

[appfan2008]

I think it is sad to see just how far this prestigious conference has fallen since its haydays back in the thirties and fourties with a conference basically made up of today's SEC and ACC.

[Tealblood]

a number of people think that it is a Furman, Wofford, App St. group that opposes the CCU entry. It is mostly Furman that is against CCU joining. The Chairman of Wofford does TV commercials for CCU football. Furmans pres is the dean of pres.'s in the conf. and he is not fully in favor of the move. The problem is to get some of the members that are in favor to speak up.

[OL FU]

I think it is sad to see just how far this prestigious conference has fallen since its haydays back in the thirties and fourties with a conference basically made up of today's SEC and ACC.

The conference had 355 schools in it back then. It was made up of everything from Alabama to George Washington high school.