Columbia football

[crusader11]

Would it surprise you if I told you that Columbia hasn't scored more than 14 points in a game since November of 2012? Are things worse now than they were years ago when the Lions lost 44 straight?

Been reading Jake's blog on Columbia football (http://culions.blogspot.com/) and I think he's pretty much on point with everything he writes. It's no secret, he and many others want Pete Mangurian gone yesterday. In fact, there was a thread that began on the Ivy League sports board entitled "Mangurian: 55 days and Counting (http://www.voy.com/152805/130673.html)"

Looking at last year's points scores / points against, it's pretty ugly: 73 / 402. That's an average score of 40.2 - 7.3.

Seems like things are only getting worse in Morningside Heights. Mangurian clearly isn't the answer, but Columbia's problems clearly run deeper than just who's traipsing the Columbia sideline on Saturdays.

I thought this post was really good and illuminating about "How We [Columbia] Got Here" -- http://culions.blogspot.com/2013/10/how-we-got-here.html

I can't imagine what it's like being a member of the football team / coaching staff right now. Entering games knowing you will get pummeled.

Seems like things will only get worse before they get better.

#PrayForColumbia

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The way the QB situation was handled last season with Nottingham and the incumbent starter was pretty awful, IMO.

[Go...gate]

It seemed like Lion FB was going in the right direction for a while in the mid 1990's but has crashed off the road into the mire again.

[RichH2]

A litany of red flags in that blog. Columbia is and has been for many decades a disaster. Columbia successfully competes in numerous sports. Why not football? Administration cares nothing about the sport and hasn't for a long time. Hanging Mangurian probably deserved but no cure for their sad football team. Even with the perfect coach and staff,admissions support and funding it will take a minimum of 5 yrs to get program out of the abyss it is in. Will Czu do that? Seems not.

[Ivytalk]

Very interesting, but depressing, read. I hope Columbia finds a way to beat Cornell and/or Brown this year.

[bulldog10jw]

Who the coach is has never made a difference at Columbia. I think someone posted on AGS recently that Columbia has had only 7, I think it was, winning seasons since the '60's.

Every coach they hire is touted as the savior, but it never works out.

The fact that they compete, and even win, in other sports makes me think it might be a numbers thing. You just need more good players on a football team than you do in others sports and they just cannot recruit enough of them to compete in football.

[Go Green]

I think Holy Cross' Tom Gilmore would be great for Columbia. Wonder if both HC and TG both need a change of scenery....

And Jake (and his allies) have suggested Gilmore more than once.

[crusader11]

Who the coach is has never made a difference at Columbia. I think someone posted on AGS recently that Columbia has had only 7, I think it was, winning seasons since the '60's.


​I posted that, and it's actually three winning seasons since 1963.

THREE WINNING SEASONS SINCE 1963.

[Bogus Megapardus]

I still cannot fathom why Columbia football could not recruit and compete even against the pre-scholarship PL, let alone the rest of Ivy. Brown, Cornell and even Dartmouth have their down years but it's cyclical and each eventually recoups. Not so the Lions. I'm a "Columbia Dad" and an apologist for Lion football. I go to games at Baker every year but damn, they really do drag some misery out on to the turf.

Columbia has to drop the Fordham series and go with an OOC that includes three of Marist, Georgetown, Drake, Butler, Valparaiso and Davidson - and hope to win two of their three OOC games. The players really have to have a taste of victory once in a while. Regrettably, this year's Lions almost certainly would lose to Georgetown and possibly to Marist and Butler. "Help me, Obi-Wan Kenobi; you're my only hope . . . "

[bulldog10jw]

​I posted that, and it's actually three winning seasons since 1963.

THREE WINNING SEASONS SINCE 1963.

It was worse than I thought. Unfortunately.

[Sader87]

Just checked, they have had back to back winning seasons (above .500) exactly once since the IL was formalized in 1956. They went 6-3 in 1961 and 5-4 in 1962 and that's it.

I remembah they upset Dartmouth (sort of our family's 2nd team growing up) in 1971 when they also went 6-3.

From a HC perspective, I saw HC beat Columbia 77-28 in 1983...I also saw the Lions put it to the Saders in 1996 I believe (anothah one of CU's good years). Columbia had a very good player that year....played some RB back I believe ended up playing DE in the NFL, spacing on his name.

[TypicalTribe]

Just checked, they have had back to back winning seasons (above .500) exactly once since the IL was formalized in 1956. They went 6-3 in 1961 and 5-4 in 1962 and that's it.

I remembah they upset Dartmouth (sort of our family's 2nd team growing up) in 1971 when they also went 6-3.

From a HC perspective, I saw HC beat Columbia 77-28 in 1983...I also saw the Lions put it to the Saders in 1996 I believe (anothah one of CU's good years). Columbia had a very good player that year....played some RB back I believe ended up playing DE in the NFL, spacing on his name.

Marcellus Wiley was a stud.

[bulldog10jw]

From a HC perspective, I saw HC beat Columbia 77-28 in 1983...I also saw the Lions put it to the Saders in 1996 I believe (anothah one of CU's good years). Columbia had a very good player that year....played some RB back I believe ended up playing DE in the NFL, spacing on his name.

From a Yale perspective, we lost 4 straight to Columbia at the end of the Cozza era in the mid 90's. Certainly one of the low points for Yale football.

[Lehigh'98]

One of Lehigh's best games in 1998 was against Columbia. They held us to negative yards rushing. We won on last second 47? Yd fg. That was one of our best seasons too. In 95, it took a miracle catch from Klingerman to beat them. That was also a PL championship team. Seems Columbia had some tougher teams in that period.

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

Nick Saban or (insert iconic HC here) couldn't win at Columbia.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

One of Lehigh's best games in 1998 was against Columbia. They held us to negative yards rushing. We won on last second 47? Yd fg. That was one of our best seasons too. In 95, it took a miracle catch from Klingerman to beat them. That was also a PL championship team. Seems Columbia had some tougher teams in that period.

After that second 47 yard FG, that 98 Columbia team got downfield in 2 plays and had a chance at a game-winning 50+ yard FG in the final second, but it fell short. Was an exciting game. I was there.

[Lehigh'98]

After that second 47 yard FG, that 98 Columbia team got downfield in 2 plays and had a chance at a game-winning 50+ yard FG in the final second, but it fell short. Was an exciting game. I was there.

Really, for whatever reason I don't remember that part, just going nuts after we made it.. Have a great picture of me and another lineman hugging in mid air afterwards on the 50 yd line.

[Grizalltheway]

Nick Saban or (insert iconic HC here) couldn't win at Columbia.

What about Ditka? Pretty sure Ditka could do it.

[DFW HOYA]

Nick Saban or (insert iconic HC here) couldn't win at Columbia.

Of course he could, and therein lies the problem. For the past 50 years, Columbia hasn't hired a head coach with any significant major college head coaching experience:

Frank Navarro came to Columbia from Williams College.
Bob Naso was a career assistant at Rutgers.
Jim Garrett was an itinerant NFL assistant.
Larry McElreavy came from New Haven.
Ray Tellier coached at Rochester.
Bob Shoop was a career assistant coach. Same for Norries Wilson.
Three years at Cornell (Ivy record: 11-10) was good enough for Pete Mangurian.

OK, so maybe Charlie Weis isn't walking onto Baker Field, but maybe, just maybe, Columbia needs a name coach that wants a fresh start, someone that can walk into any recruit's home in America and they know who he is; more importantly, a coach who can recruit players who want to play for him, and most importantly, be a coach who knows how to win. Otherwise, the recruiting will continue to suffer against H-Y-P, the players will lose heart, and the vicious cycle continues.

If nothing else, it might get some regular college football coverage in the city's dailies.

[Pard4Life]

I think Columbia managed to go 8-2 in 1996, and they were .500 in 2010. Lafayette lost to them when we were a joke.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Lafayette lost to them when we were a joke.

But not in Easton, Pard4Life. Never in 125 years have we ever lost to Columbia in Easton. xnodx

[Pard4Life]

But not in Easton, Pard4Life. Never in 125 years have we ever lost to Columbia in Easton. xnodx

Thank a Maurice White touchdown with second left in 2009 for that! How come when we have really good teams, we play close games and nearly lose to the flakes? i.e. Gtown, Columbia

[Bogus Megapardus]

How come when we have really good teams, we play close games and nearly lose to the flakes? i.e. Gtown, Columbia

Where do you think the term "Frankosaurus" came from? xrolleyesx

[Ivytalk]

I was a Harvard freshman in 1972. Columbia was coming off a 6-3 season and had high hopes. The Lions crushed Fordham in their opener and tied Princeton on the road. Then, in their third game against Harvard, Columbia's fine quarterback Don Jackson got hurt and was out for the season, IIRC. The Lions ended up something like 3-5-1 (yup, the Ivies played only 9 games in those days), and they did worse than that for some years to come.

[Go Green]

This article was written in the middle of the 44-game losing streak. Talks about some of the challenges faced by Columbia. Some still relevant.

http://www.si.com/vault/1986/12/01/114483/the-lions-go-out-like-lambs-ivy-be-leaguered-columbia-wound-up-its-third-straight-winless-season-but-then-the-school-values-sheepskin-more-than-pigskin

[Bogus Megapardus]

Thank a Maurice White touchdown with second left in 2009 for that! How come when we have really good teams, we play close games and nearly lose to the flakes? i.e. Gtown, Columbia

My personal favorite still is the 2005 black-out mud-bath at Fisher Field, just before the place was renovated. From the water-soaked, splintered 1926 bleachers I could not tell which team was which - both were completely caked in mud. Jonathan Hurt wound up crawling, literally, for 149 yards while the Frankosaurus held Columbia to seven yards total offense in the second half in a 14-7 Pard win.

Costanzo, Bennett and Witherspoon were the LBs that day. Don't you just wish?

[Dave195]

Can't wait til' Saturday when my MU Hawks romp em'! Homecoming means football and some free food!

[bonarae]

How really hard has Ivy football fallen? The same teams are practically there on the top year after year after year in recent years. Does Ivy football need a scheduling pattern change? (Last schedule change was either in the late 1990s or year 2000.)

I might think I cannot start the next Ivy season here on AGS (I will stop posting after I vote my last poll this year). Following D-III may favor me more after that until ETSU starts spring training. The "geeky" teams that play football (MIT, Chicago) are currently 4-0 right now and both may even ride the Road to Salem this year if this pattern holds.

[ccd494]

Prediction: Columbia drops football due to it conflicting with its academic mission (i.e. educating brains instead of causing CTE) before it has another winning season.

I think Brown will follow.

[Go Green]

Prediction: Columbia drops football due to it conflicting with its academic mission (i.e. educating brains instead of causing CTE) before it has another winning season.

I think Brown will follow.

Then they kiss their membership in the Ivy League goodbye.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Prediction: Columbia drops football due to it being Marxist
'
FIFY

[bulldog10jw]

Then they kiss their membership in the Ivy League goodbye.

Agreed. The Ivy League is first and foremost a football conference.

[crusader11]

Agreed. The Ivy League is first and foremost a football conference.

...but it's developing into a very good mid-major basketball league. Harvard, of course, Penn + Princeton, Columbia is really becoming a good program with Kyle Smith. I think Ivy football with each passing year is becoming a shell of what it once was with their myopic thinking and draconian rules (ten game season, playing a very limited OOC schedule, no FCS playoffs), that basketball will (has it already?) elevated into the premier Ivy sport.

[ccd494]

Then they kiss their membership in the Ivy League goodbye.

...or the Ivy League all follows.

[Go Green]

...or the Ivy League all follows.

I *can* see the league as a whole dropping football because of head trauma. I think it extraordinarily unlikely, but I can see it.

I cannot see an individual school dropping football unilaterally. The risk of losing the Ivy brand for Columbia or Brown is just too great.

And arguing that the Ivy is really a basketball league now anyway won't cut it. :)

[Lehigh Football Nation]

...or the Ivy League all follows.

Do the seven Ivy League schools that currently sponsor ECAC Hockey teams really want to open up an investigation regarding CTE in all sports?

The story arc on "sports are too dangerous" is very predictable: people complain, people threaten to discontinue the sport, sport changes some rules/make equipment changes, sport continues because people LOVE IT and PAY MONEY to watch it. This has been true for 100 years and will continue to be true for CTE issues.

The only way the IL would drop football is if they are comfortable with the flawed logic of the arguments, that they are in denial about it affecting other sports, that they have a discriminatory (and possibly somewhat racist) view of football and football players.... oh, wait.

[TypicalTribe]

This article was written in the middle of the 44-game losing streak. Talks about some of the challenges faced by Columbia. Some still relevant.

http://www.si.com/vault/1986/12/01/114483/the-lions-go-out-like-lambs-ivy-be-leaguered-columbia-wound-up-its-third-straight-winless-season-but-then-the-school-values-sheepskin-more-than-pigskin

Best line of the piece: "We're in better shape than Northwestern."

Maybe not.

[ccd494]

I *can* see the league as a whole dropping football because of head trauma. I think it extraordinarily unlikely, but I can see it.

I cannot see an individual school dropping football unilaterally. The risk of losing the Ivy brand for Columbia or Brown is just too great.

And arguing that the Ivy is really a basketball league now anyway won't cut it. :)

I think the Ivy League brand is academics first, second, third and fourth. Maybe football about 18th.

[Go Green]

Best line of the piece: "We're in better shape than Northwestern."

Maybe not.

At the time it was written, the statement was defensible.

I agree that today, it's good for a chuckle.

[bulldog10jw]

Do the seven Ivy League schools that currently sponsor ECAC Hockey teams really want to open up an investigation regarding CTE in all sports?

The story arc on "sports are too dangerous" is very predictable: people complain, people threaten to discontinue the sport, sport changes some rules/make equipment changes, sport continues because people LOVE IT and PAY MONEY to watch it. This has been true for 100 years and will continue to be true for CTE issues.

The only way the IL would drop football is if they are comfortable with the flawed logic of the arguments, that they are in denial about it affecting other sports, that they have a discriminatory (and possibly somewhat racist) view of football and football players.... oh, wait.

Discriminatory yes, but racist?

By the way, both Penn and Columbia dropped hockey, which leaves six.

[bulldog10jw]

I think Ivy football with each passing year is becoming a shell of what it once was with their myopic thinking and draconian rules (ten game season, playing a very limited OOC schedule, no FCS playoffs), that basketball will (has it already?) elevated into the premier Ivy sport.

While I agree with much of what you wrote above, BB will never be the premier Ivy sport.

[DFW HOYA]

Prediction: Columbia drops football due to it conflicting with its academic mission (i.e. educating brains instead of causing CTE) before it has another winning season.

The day that happens, the admin interrupts the meeting with "Excuse me, Ms. Harris. Georgetown is on line one."

[crusader11]

The day that happens, the admin interrupts the meeting with "Excuse me, Ms. Harris. Georgetown is on line one."

Would Allen Iverson have made it through the Ivy League AI?

[ccd494]

By the way, both Penn and Columbia dropped hockey, which leaves six.

Exactly. The Ivy League was okay with that, despite hockey being one of two upper tier NCAA sports any Ivy League school has a shot at a national title in (lacrosse). The educational brand is infinitely more important to the eight schools than any athletic competition.

[Go Green]

The day that happens, the admin interrupts the meeting with "Excuse me, Ms. Harris. Georgetown is on line one."

Bingo.

:)

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Exactly. The Ivy League was okay with that, despite hockey being one of two upper tier NCAA sports any Ivy League school has a shot at a national title in (lacrosse). The educational brand is infinitely more important to the eight schools than any athletic competition.

And yet you'll never see anyone clamoring for the IL schools to drop hockey because of potential CTE issues.

[Go Green]

Exactly. The Ivy League was okay with that, despite hockey being one of two upper tier NCAA sports any Ivy League school has a shot at a national title in (lacrosse).

Same can be said for several sports--including lacrosse (Columbia doesn't have a team).

But has been said thousands of other times.... football is different.

[Pard4Life]

The alumni at Harvard and Yale would never allow football to be dropped.

[Bogus Megapardus]

And yet you'll never see anyone clamoring for the IL schools to drop hockey because of potential CTE issues.

Give it a couple of years. Guys on the T&F team running the 200m relay will be wearing helmets. "Someone could get hurt." xbangx

Seriously, Ivy was all about T&F and football when it started, and football still drives the day. Say what you will about the quality or condition of Columbia football, I've never read or heard anything coming from Columbia itself even hinting at dropping football (except in the recurring April Fool's editions of The Columbia Spectator). Rumors from pundits and prognosticators fly around every year but they don't come from the Columbia administration or the AD.

There was, however, consideration of Ivy expansion a little over thirty years ago. The expansion targets were Army, Navy, W&M, Northwestern, Holy Cross and Colgate. The idea, apparently, was to try to keep Ivy football in Division 1A instead of dropping to 1AA. Colgate, Holy Cross, Army and Navy soon afterwards helped create the Patriot League (W&M initially was a PL member - for about fifteen minutes).

But nowhere does this or any other IL school-related publication suggest that Columbia ever considered dropping football.

Read:

http://www.thecrimson.com/article/1982/1/11/ivies-considering-an-expansion-in-response/

http://www.nytimes.com/1982/01/10/sports/ivy-league-considers-adding-2-schools.html

[Go Green]

But nowhere does this or any other IL school-related publication suggest that Columbia ever considered dropping football.



During the 44-game losing streak, there was a lot of "what should we do about Columbia?" talk in the Ivy. I can guarantee to you that there was some "kick the bums out" grumbling from some quarters. How much of a serious threat it was is open to debate.

What *was* decided was that the league gave Columbia some waivers on the AI. That helped Columbia bring in some players who otherwise would have been denied admission in earlier years. But they helped Columbia end the Streak and become reasonably competitive in the league in the 1990s. At a minimum, Columbia ceased to be a national punchline.

[Bogus Megapardus]

During the 44-game losing streak, there was a lot of "what should we do about Columbia?" talk in the Ivy. I can guarantee to you that there was some "kick the bums out" grumbling from some quarters. How much of a serious threat it was is open to debate.

What *was* decided was that the league gave Columbia some waivers on the AI. That helped Columbia bring in some players who otherwise would have been denied admission in earlier years. But they helped Columbia end the Streak and become reasonably competitive in the league in the 1990s. At a minimum, Columbia ceased to be a national punchline.

Oh how I remember - in 1988 as the Columbia losing streak carried into its sixth year, the pundits at Sports Illustrated and CBS we making sure that everyone knew that Columbia's best chance to break the streak would be against Lafayette. Pard fans were outraged and furious. No doubt that was a highly motivating factor in the Leopards' 49-3 win that year - two weeks before Columbia finally beat Princeton, 16-13. I'm damn glad it wasn't us.

[bonarae]

...but it's developing into a very good mid-major basketball league. Harvard, of course, Penn + Princeton, Columbia is really becoming a good program with Kyle Smith. I think Ivy football with each passing year is becoming a shell of what it once was with their myopic thinking and draconian rules (ten game season, playing a very limited OOC schedule, no FCS playoffs), that basketball will (has it already?) elevated into the premier Ivy sport.

Unfortunately, true. One of the Holubas (the youngest currently playing football at Princeton) made a bad decision. He should've gone to D-III if he really wanted small research schools and opportunity for playoffs.

Because of those rules restricting Ivy football, I'm starting to like D-III football more now, until at least ETSU finishes their four fall practices (they're already have gone through two in local HS, but I didn't see them posted here yet.)

[Engineer86]

I think Columbia managed to go 8-2 in 1996, and they were .500 in 2010. Lafayette lost to them when we were a joke.

... Oh where to start xdrunkyx

[Bogus Megapardus]

when we were a joke.

A joke? I got a joke.

A Quaker, an Eli and a Cantab were crossing the desert on foot . . . .

[Go Green]

If my math is correct, if Columbia's fortunes do not improve, then loss #45 should be the Marist game in 2017 (assuming no schedule changes).

Loss #44 the week before would be Princeton (which ended the 1980s streak).

Make your reservations now!!! See history!!!

[bkrownd]

A fun link relevant to subject - Columbia only registers as the #4 loser: ;)

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/list/colfootball/teams/worst.html

[caribbeanhen]

19817

drove by the old ball yard last Saturday, not much going on

[Ivytalk]

The alumni at Harvard and Yale would never allow football to be dropped.

Not so fast, my friend! I can't speak for Yale, but the Harvard alums who care about football are dying off faster than they can be replaced.

[bulldog10jw]

Not so fast, my friend! I can't speak for Yale, but the Harvard alums who care about football are dying off faster than they can be replaced.

I know what you mean. The average age for alumni attending Yale games has gotten so old that the concession stands are selling Grecian Formula.

[Bill]

Boola Boola

19818

[Bill]

One more....
http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19819&stc=1

[Pard4Life]

That's right... Charles Montgomery Burns, Yale Class of 1914

[Pard4Life]

Also of the Simpsons:

Bob Terwilliger: Yale (aka Sideshow Bob)
Cecil Terwilliger: Princeton (brief stint as Sideshow Cecil)

[Go Green]

Also of the Simpsons:

Bob Terwilliger: Yale (aka Sideshow Bob)
Cecil Terwilliger: Princeton (brief stint as Sideshow Cecil)

There's a lot more than that. Here's a list though 2006.

http://www.snpp.com/guides/ivy.html

[2ram]

Marcellus Wiley was a stud.

maybe the best player the IL has put out in the last 50 years.

[Go Green]

maybe the best player the IL has put out in the last 50 years.

All due respect to Wiley (a terrific player), but I'm trying to come up with a metric where that statement would be true.

Highest drafted? Nope. (At least not going back 50 years)

Most decorated college career? Nope.

Best pro career? Nope.

[2ram]

All due respect to Wiley (a terrific player), but I'm trying to come up with a metric where that statement would be true.

Highest drafted? Nope. (At least not going back 50 years)

Most decorated college career? Nope.

Best pro career? Nope.

i'm a noob when it comes to IL pros. who had a better pro career? wasn't wiley an all-pro?

[bulldog10jw]

i'm a noob when it comes to IL pros. who had a better pro career?

Calvin Hill
Gary Fencik
Reggie Williams

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Pat McInally

[Pard4Life]

There's a lot more than that. Here's a list though 2006.

http://www.snpp.com/guides/ivy.html

Ah, did not know Sideshow Mel was a Cornell alum... and Comic Book Guy has a MA from Harvard.

Lionel Hutz... who knows... he probably even has attended classes at Lehigh at his rate..

[Ivytalk]

I know what you mean. The average age for alumni attending Yale games has gotten so old that the concession stands are selling Grecian Formula.

And Viagra.

[Ivytalk]

Pat McInally


And don't forget Ryan Fitzpatrick, who is still collecting an NFL paycheck (10th year, 5th team).

[Go Green]

i'm a noob when it comes to IL pros. who had a better pro career? wasn't wiley an all-pro?

Matt Birk and Steve Jordan both made the Pro Bowl six times.

They're each borderline Hall of Famers. Wiley (again, all due respect to him) was not.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Birk and Fitzpatrick both beat Lehigh with that legendary Harvard team at Goodman. Great, great all-time offense that season.

[bulldog10jw]

And Viagra.

Viagra is sold at Harvard (the name brand)

Cialis is sold at Yale (#2 trying harder (pun intended))

[Seawolf97]

Prediction: Columbia drops football due to it conflicting with its academic mission (i.e. educating brains instead of causing CTE) before it has another winning season.

I think Brown will follow.
Where would that leave the Ivy? They probably will ride out the bad years to stay in the ivy League.

[RichH2]

Geez,would have thought this thread would have resolved Columbia's quasi football team by now. This thread is subject to hijack to discuss #150 :)

[Ivytalk]

Viagra is sold at Harvard (the name brand)

Cialis is sold at Yale (#2 trying harder (pun intended))

Where does that leave Princeton? (Answer: Flaccid.)

[Go...gate]

maybe the best player the IL has put out in the last 50 years.

Wiley was certainly good, but not better than Marty Domres (Columbia), Dick Jauron, Gary Fencik, and Calvin Hill (Yale) Ed Marinaro (Cornell), Reggie Williams (Dartmouth) and quite a few others.

[bulldog10jw]

Wiley was certainly good, but not better than Marty Domres (Columbia), Dick Jauron, Gary Fencik, and Calvin Hill (Yale) Ed Marinaro (Cornell), Reggie Williams (Dartmouth) and quite a few others.

I forgot about Jauron, shame on me.

And also Chuck Mercein who was drafted by and played for the Giants, but was best known for his time with the Packers and especially the Ice Bowl game against Dallas.

[Go...gate]

I forgot about Jauron, shame on me.

And also Chuck Mercein who was drafted by and played for the Giants, but was best known for his time with the Packers and especially the Ice Bowl game against Dallas.

Didn't Kelly Ryan have a cup of coffee in the NFL? He was a great QB.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Fitzpatrick played his heart out tonight vs. Indy. So close . . .

[kdinva]

Monmouth 40-0 at the half.......

[bulldog10jw]

Monmouth 40-0 at the half.......

Demoralizing for those Columbia kids.

[Dave195]

Was at the game. Left when it was 54-0. Pure domination! Columbia is absolutely terrible!

[bonarae]

Are they Ivy's version of Savannah State? xchinscratchx

[BucBisonAtLarge]

Savannah State just added football. Columbia has been playing it since at least 1872. This is an Ivy administration just mailing it in, with the entire League's consent. Those players deserve better. They want the education and have to get beat up for 10 Saturdays to allow Columbia's administration to check off their nominal participation in a required Ivy League activity.

[crusader11]

Savannah State just added football.

Savannah State has been consistently been fielding football teams since the 1940s.

[BucBisonAtLarge]

My bad. SSU traces its football history back to 1915, but it looks like their life in Division I began in this decade. My point is this- Columbia claims a football tradition but makes only a gesture at maintaining it.

[Ivytalk]

Next week, 0-4 Columbia is at 0-4 Penn. Somebody has to win that game.

[bulldog10jw]

Next week, 0-4 Columbia is at 0-4 Penn. Somebody has to win that game.

Go Lions

[DFW HOYA]

Next week, 0-4 Columbia is at 0-4 Penn. Somebody has to win that game.

Penn, by three touchdowns.

[Go Green]

Penn, by three touchdowns.

For whatever crazy reason, Columbia usually seems to play Penn tough.

Penn *should* win, but this is one of the weakest Penn teams in memory.

[bonarae]

Lions by less than a field goal, I guess? Very tough game to pick though.

[DFW HOYA]

For whatever crazy reason, Columbia usually seems to play Penn tough.

Penn *should* win, but this is one of the weakest Penn teams in memory.

Losing to Fordham is nothing to be ashamed of.

[Go...gate]

Things are really looking bleak both on Morningside Heights and in Philadelphia.

[Ivytalk]

Things are really looking bleak both on Morningside Heights and in Philadelphia.

In the latter case, I have no sympathy. I'm old enough to remember a few 2-win seasons for Harvard, and Penn students/fans were particularly graceless. Karma is a bitch, Bagnoli.

[Go Green]

We can stop wondering. Jake has explicitly called for the coach's firing ASAP. Previously, he seemed resigned to the fact that it wouldn't happen until the end of the season.

http://culions.blogspot.com/2014/10/uninspired.html

[Pard4Life]

Puck Fenn.

[Pards Rule]

Go Lions


here here!!

- - - Updated - - -


In the latter case, I have no sympathy. I'm old enough to remember a few 2-win seasons for Harvard, and Penn students/fans were particularly graceless. Karma is a bitch, Bagnoli.

They always have been from what I have seen. And that toast thing is so moldy!! Kill it!!

[Pards Rule]

Oh how I remember - in 1988 as the Columbia losing streak carried into its sixth year, the pundits at Sports Illustrated and CBS we making sure that everyone knew that Columbia's best chance to break the streak would be against Lafayette. Pard fans were outraged and furious. No doubt that was a highly motivating factor in the Leopards' 49-3 win that year - two weeks before Columbia finally beat Princeton, 16-13. I'm damn glad it wasn't us.

Against the 1988 squad? Are you sure it wasn't 1987? 1988 was very good - 1987 not so much. Somehow I remember it as 1987 with all the hubbub

[Go Green]

And the vultures are circling. Student paper calls for coach's immediate dismissal.

http://columbiaspectator.com/opinion/2014/10/13/kick-out-mangurian-and-murphy-get-ball-rolling

Jake's blog has always been one step ahead of everyone else.

[DFW HOYA]

And the vultures are circling. Student paper calls for coach's immediate dismissal.

http://columbiaspectator.com/opinion/2014/10/13/kick-out-mangurian-and-murphy-get-ball-rolling

Jake's blog has always been one step ahead of everyone else.

The Columbia Spectator is not calling for Mangurian's ouster. This is an extended letter to the editor.

[Ivytalk]

And the vultures are circling. Student paper calls for coach's immediate dismissal.

http://columbiaspectator.com/opinion/2014/10/13/kick-out-mangurian-and-murphy-get-ball-rolling

Jake's blog has always been one step ahead of everyone else.

It figures that it would be an op-ed from an influential football alum! I'll bet the actual student editors don't give a rat's arse.

[DFW HOYA]

A better question, perhaps: what does Columbia want out of its football program?

It could aspire to compete for the national championship, but no one will stand up in the Ivy league to do so. It could expect to compete for the Ivy title, something it has not done since 1961. If it can't compete for the title, it could be expected to win consistently against non-conference opponents, but hasn't done so in decades.

Maybe Columbia really doesn't know what it wants out of its football program.

As the Ivy folks might say, "QED".

[NY Crusader 2010]

They need to sign a six-year series with Marist ASAP. I would say ten but the Red Foxes might be leaps and bounds ahead of them at that point in time.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

A better question, perhaps: what does Columbia want out of its football program?

Answer: To keep the Kraft family happy.

[Go Green]

They need to sign a six-year series with Marist ASAP. I would say ten but the Red Foxes might be leaps and bounds ahead of them at that point in time.

Columbia hosts Marist in 2016 and 2017.

Indeed, the 2017 Marist game would be the game that Columbia extends its losing streak to a new record (#45) if things don't improve.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Against the 1988 squad? Are you sure it wasn't 1987? 1988 was very good - 1987 not so much. Somehow I remember it as 1987 with all the hubbub

I think you're right about that, Pards Rule. It was the 1987 game at Fisher that the pundits said would break the streak.

Lafayette Head Coach Bill Russo: "I bitterly resent our program being compared to a program like Columbia."  xlolx xrotatehx xnodx

http://articles.philly.com/1987-09-30/sports/26210588_1_columbia-athletic-director-ivy-league-al-paul

[Bogus Megapardus]

Columbia hosts Marist in 2016 and 2017.

Conveniently, students actually can take a Metro North train directly from Marist to the Baker complex. There's even a college student discount. Party Train! Seriously, this is a series that both schools should schedule on a regular basis. It makes too much sense not to.

[Ivytalk]

Columbia hosts Marist in 2016 and 2017.

Indeed, the 2017 Marist game would be the game that Columbia extends its losing streak to a new record (#45) if things don't improve.

In that case, Bill O'Reilly (Marist alum) will invite the Columbia coach to come on The Factor.

[Pards Rule]

I think you're right about that, Pards Rule. It was the 1987 game at Fisher that the pundits said would break the streak.

Lafayette Head Coach Bill Russo: "I bitterly resent our program being compared to a program like Columbia."  xlolx xrotatehx xnodx

http://articles.philly.com/1987-09-30/sports/26210588_1_columbia-athletic-director-ivy-league-al-paul

Yeah, definitely wasn't the 1988 team that went to West point in mid October undefeated that year and had a good game vs Army (I was there). Hard to believe Russo would say that in press. I guess NY press is very good at "goading"!

[Go Green]

Just when you think things couldn't get any worse for Columbia, their starting QB (transfer from Stanford) has quit the team--at least according to the Columbia sports board.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Just when you think things couldn't get any worse for Columbia, their starting QB (transfer from Stanford) has quit the team--at least according to the Columbia sports board.

Ouch. That's gonna leave a mark.

[Go Green]

Ouch. That's gonna leave a mark.

Sad thing (among others) is that Saturday's game against Penn was winnable for the Lions.

Now we can just pencil in loss #16. And losses #17-22 for the rest of the season.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Just when you think things couldn't get any worse for Columbia, their starting QB (transfer from Stanford) has quit the team--at least according to the Columbia sports board.

The coaching staff basically ripped the starting job from McDonagh for Nottingham and the freshman, and this is how Nottingham repays them? There's something downright Shakespearean happening at Columbia.

[Bill]

"Dedicated To The Joy Of Manly Contest"

- Isn't that the slightly less well known motto of Festivus?

[Go...gate]

A better question, perhaps: what does Columbia want out of its football program?

It could aspire to compete for the national championship, but no one will stand up in the Ivy league to do so. It could expect to compete for the Ivy title, something it has not done since 1961. If it can't compete for the title, it could be expected to win consistently against non-conference opponents, but hasn't done so in decades.

Maybe Columbia really doesn't know what it wants out of its football program.

As the Ivy folks might say, "QED".

Not to nitpick, but they have had a couple of teams that played very well and had at least an outside shot at the Ivy League Championship since 1961. 1971 and 1996 come to mind.

Problem is that Columbia seems SATISFIED with one good team evey quarter-century or so. That is unacceptable.

[Go...gate]

Yeah, definitely wasn't the 1988 team that went to West Point in mid October undefeated that year and had a good game vs Army (I was there). Hard to believe Russo would say that in press. I guess NY press is very good at "goading"!

I did not attend the game, but recall it was a real shootout. You guys damn near beat an Army team that took Alabama down to the wire in the Sun Bowl.

[crusader11]

Talk about a program being in total disarray. There are losing streaks, and then there is Columbia.

[kdinva]

Problem is that Columbia seems SATISFIED with one good team every quarter-century or so......

sounds familiar...... xpissedx

xslapfightx

[Go Green]

Talk about a program being in total disarray. There are losing streaks, and then there is Columbia.

I'd say that the current state is as bad as it's ever been at Columbia.

And that's saying something.

[Go Green]

Latest on the mess.

http://columbiaspectator.com/sports/2014/10/14/nottingham-columbia-lions-football-future-question-mangurian

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Latest on the mess.

http://columbiaspectator.com/sports/2014/10/14/nottingham-columbia-lions-football-future-question-mangurian

Incredibly thin-skinned. Nottingham, I mean.

[Bogus Megapardus]

The article quotes Coach Mangurian as being critical of Nottingham's preparation. If that wasn't public knowledge, it is now. It's pretty rare that a coach, especially a Division I coach, calls out an individual player like that.

Is it possibly a mis-quote? Was Mangurian simply criticizing the team (including himself and his staff) for poor preparation?

[Go Green]

Incredibly thin-skinned. Nottingham, I mean.

I don't think he's the first guy to say "F--- this. I have better things to do" when he gets demoted following a series of blowout losses.

Back in the days of the (original) streak, then-Columbia Coach Jim Garrett (Jason's Dad) called his team "drug-addicted losers" and singled out the punter for poor play. The punter quit the next day. The losses continued....

http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2006/11/17/drug-addicted-losers/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Half of me says, Mangurian just doesn't get the athletes of today. He did treat the prior QB horribly and that QB also subsequently quit the team.

But the other half says, c'mon, you're really that sensitive? One attack of your manliness and you're on a bus?

[Go Green]

Half of me says, Mangurian just doesn't get the athletes of today. He did treat the prior QB horribly and that QB also subsequently quit the team.


Jake (who would love it if Margurian was gone yesterday) has said on his blog that Mangurian was not responsible for the other QB's departure. So I can only presume that he left for reasons other than football.

And it's a shame, because he's putting up Madden numbers for some JC team now (and trying to get an offer from BCS schools, last I heard).

And call me a snob, but the fact that he went from Columbia to a JC makes me believe that he left Columbia for academic reasons...

[DFW HOYA]

Brett Nottingham's hasty decision reminded me of a Georgetown quarterback with a similarly bad decision.

Five years ago, James Brady was the best QB on Long Island, named the New York Daily News Offensive Player of The Year. He was a little too short (6-0) to close the deal with the I-A schools recruiting him (Virginia, Vanderbilt, UConn) and found his way to Georgetown, where among a team with six quarterbacks he won the starting role as a freshman and played in seven games before being injured.

As a sophomore, Brady was the starter for the home opener, but was benched in the final two minutes down 28-3. When Brady was moved down the depth chart he quit the team. Had he stayed, he would have been a senior during the Hoyas' remarkable 8-3 season. Instead, Brady transferred to New Hampshire, completing three passes in two seasons for a total of 15 yards. Today, per LinkedIn, he's a high school P.E. teacher.

Football teaches life lessons, and when a player is benched, the response is not to quit but to work harder than ever to get back to where they were before. Football is fleeting, but learning is not. This is a lesson Brett Nottingham would do well to follow, lest he end up as a just another forgotten high school recruit in a few years.

[Sader87]

And there's something inherently wrong with being a high school P.E. teacher DFW???

[HoyaMetanoia]

Brett Nottingham's hasty decision reminded me of a Georgetown quarterback with a similarly bad decision.

Five years ago, James Brady was the best QB on Long Island, named the New York Daily News Offensive Player of The Year. He was a little too short (6-0) to close the deal with the I-A schools recruiting him (Virginia, Vanderbilt, UConn) and found his way to Georgetown, where among a team with six quarterbacks he won the starting role as a freshman and played in seven games before being injured.

As a sophomore, Brady was the starter for the home opener, but was benched in the final two minutes down 28-3. When Brady was moved down the depth chart he quit the team. Had he stayed, he would have been a senior during the Hoyas' remarkable 8-3 season. Instead, Brady transferred to New Hampshire, completing three passes in two seasons for a total of 15 yards. Today, per LinkedIn, he's a high school P.E. teacher.

Football teaches life lessons, and when a player is benched, the response is not to quit but to work harder than ever to get back to where they were before. Football is fleeting, but learning is not. This is a lesson Brett Nottingham would do well to follow, lest he end up as a just another forgotten high school recruit in a few years.

Leaving out the key part where his dad stormed the field after he was benched in that game.

Also, wasn't he one of six QBs in his class, not just the whole team? Wasn't that the year we had like 10 QBs?

[Bogus Megapardus]

Leaving out the key part where his dad stormed the field after he was benched in that game.

Also, wasn't he one of six QBs in his class, not just the whole team? Wasn't that the year we had like 10 QBs?

If I'm not mistaken, Brady was benched near the end of the Lafayette Game at MSF in 2009. He was replaced with then-freshman Isaiah Kempf, if I recall correctly. I definitely don't recall anybody's dad storming the field, though. I think I would have remembered that.

Didn't everybody think Brady was going to transfer to Delaware because of the ex-Hoya AD or something like that?

[bonarae]

Talk about a program being in total disarray. There are losing streaks, and then there is Columbia.

Have you ever heard of some D-III programs as Swarthmore, whose administration did a Pacific/Cal State/Boston U-style dropping of football? The last FBS to drop football, Pacific (the last team the great Stagg coached after the Chicago Maroons dropped football)? Savannah State (mentioned in an earlier post in this thread, who have had long losing streaks even to some D-II teams in a stretch)? Austin Peay (who are regularly humiliated by OVC and FBS programs alike)?


And it's a shame, because he's putting up Madden numbers for some JC team now (and trying to get an offer from BCS schools, last I heard).

And call me a snob, but the fact that he went from Columbia to a JC makes me believe that he left Columbia for academic reasons...

Did he try transferring to D-II or NAIA? JC is definitely a step down... What was his name?


Football teaches life lessons, and when a player is benched, the response is not to quit but to work harder than ever to get back to where they were before. Football is fleeting, but learning is not. This is a lesson Brett Nottingham would do well to follow, lest he end up as a just another forgotten high school recruit in a few years.

Tate Forcier reminds me of this decision. He suddenly quit the Wolverines some point his junior year, and he's another forgotten 5-star recruit. One of his younger brothers finished his career at Furman but his career was limited by injuries.

See this list at NFL.com for whatever has happened to the top 30 recruits from 2002 to 2010: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000320664/article/yearbyyear-look-at-fivestar-college-football-recruits

[DFW HOYA]

Leaving out the key part where his dad stormed the field after he was benched in that game.

Also, wasn't he one of six QBs in his class, not just the whole team? Wasn't that the year we had like 10 QBs?

To be fair, he didn't storm the field, but stood in front of the entrance where the players were leaving to let Kelly know he was not pleased.

All the freshmen QB's of that team (Brady, Darby, Stafford, O'Leary), got benched at various times and came back to contribute. The other two QB's were Keerome Lawrence and Brian Newman.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Swarthmore, whose administration did a Pacific/Cal State/Boston U-style dropping of football?

Swarthmore was different than most. The Swatties dropped football because they simply could not assemble a team large enough or sufficiently robust to continue to compete in the Centennial Conference. They had only about 50 kids on the roster. It wasn't a matter of Title IX compliance or funding or scholarships. Swarthmore probably could flip a switch and re-start football next week - if enough kids wanted to play for Swarthmore and could be admitted.



Pericles, Sophocles, Peloponnesian War;
X-Squared, Y-Squared, H2SO4;
Cosine, Tangent, Secant, Ray;
Swarthmore, Swarthmore, all the way!

[Go Green]

What was his name?




Kelly Hilinski

http://www.pe.com/articles/rcc-749618-tigers-first.html

[DatDude]

Kelly Hilinski

http://www.pe.com/articles/rcc-749618-tigers-first.htmlHe picked up offer from Maryland. More on the way xbowx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Swarthmore was different than most. The Swatties dropped football because they simply could not assemble a team large enough or sufficiently robust to continue to compete in the Centennial Conference. They had only about 50 kids on the roster. It wasn't a matter of Title IX compliance or funding or scholarships. Swarthmore probably could flip a switch and re-start football next week - if enough kids wanted to play for Swarthmore and could be admitted.


Pericles, Sophocles, Peloponnesian War;
X-Squared, Y-Squared, H2SO4;
Cosine, Tangent, Secant, Ray;
Swarthmore, Swarthmore, all the way!


I always thought they dropped football because mean Lehigh students burned an LU on their field that they couldn't remove. A prank refined and fine-tuned after many successful such runs at Lafayette.

[Go Green]

Swarthmore was different than most. The Swatties dropped football because they simply could not assemble a team large enough or sufficiently robust to continue to compete in the Centennial Conference. They had only about 50 kids on the roster. It wasn't a matter of Title IX compliance or funding or scholarships. Swarthmore probably could flip a switch and re-start football next week - if enough kids wanted to play for Swarthmore and could be admitted.


This is correct. Anyone who wants to read more detail, here's the NYT story:

http://www.nytimes.com/2000/12/05/sports/football-no-more-football-lots-of-questions.html?src=pm&pagewanted=1

(The Williams AD quoted in the story Harry Sheehy is now AD at Dartmouth).

[Lehigh Football Nation]

About two dozen colleges and universities dropped football in the 1990's, including Boston University and Santa Clara. Unlike many other schools, Swarthmore's decision had nothing to do with finances, compliance with federal gender-equity mandates or lack of interest, administrators said.

Rather, it was a matter of numbers. To be competitive in all 24 intercollegiate sports on campus, university officials said, 30 percent of each incoming freshman class of 375 students would have to be recruited essentially as athletes. Anything beyond 10 to 15 percent would compromise the desired diversity on campus, administrators said. In other words, the more football players admitted means that fewer aspiring musicians, mathematicians and political science majors can be admitted.

To improve diversity, Swarthmore cuts the most diverse team on the campus.

"In other words, the more football players admitted means that fewer WASPy aspiring musicians, mathematicians and political science majors can be admitted."

Would love to fix the article with the edit above and below.

''Ten to 15 percent is the appropriate proportion of a class to pick primarily because of athletic ability,'' Dan West, Swarthmore's vice president of alumni, development and public relations, said in an interview. ''Anything greater than that begins to impinge on efforts to have a widely diverse student body. We want students who can represent other interests, WASPs who are majoring in the classics and the humanities.''

[Bogus Megapardus]

One really has to admire the tenacity of the Oberlin College Football Yeo-Persons, given the challenges they must face at that institution. I've been there; it's quite "special." xchinscratchx

[Go Green]

Jake is now advocating the Ivy League take over day-to-day operations of Columbia football, much like MLB did with the Dodgers a few years ago.

http://culions.blogspot.com/2014/10/time-for-robin-harris-to-step-in.html

Trying to think of a comparable NCAA situation.... not coming up with one.

(Anyone who cares, the Ivy League *did* get together in the 1980s to discuss what to do about Columbia when the streak reached the 30s. The solution was to allow Columbia to admit some football players that wouldn't pass admissions at any other Ivy school to try to get Columbia competitive again. It worked to some extent).

[Bogus Megapardus]

Jake is now advocating the Ivy League take over day-to-day operations of Columbia football, much like MLB did with the Dodgers a few years ago.

That would pretty awkward if you're Dartmouth or Brown or whomever - having your own league compete against you. Maybe the Swatties could operate Columbia football by proxy. Now THAT would be interesting. xnodx

[DFW HOYA]

''Ten to 15 percent is the appropriate proportion of a class to pick primarily because of athletic ability,'' Dan West, Swarthmore's vice president of alumni, development and public relations, said in an interview. ''Anything greater than that begins to impinge on efforts to have a widely diverse student body. We want students who can represent other interests, who are majoring in the classics and the humanities.''


This assumes there are no athletes who major in the classics and humanities? Ah, the myopia of professional academia...

[Ivytalk]

Receivership, eh? Not sure the IL has the fortitude or the chutzpah for that concept. It's tantamount to a decision that, henceforth, the IL shall be known as the Ancient Seven. Just turn the Ivy athletic admissions requirements into QE4, or wherever we are right now: as close to zero as possible. Worked for Penn before, worked for Columbia, probably worked for Harvard basketball.

[HoyaMetanoia]

To be fair, he didn't storm the field, but stood in front of the entrance where the players were leaving to let Kelly know he was not pleased.

All the freshmen QB's of that team (Brady, Darby, Stafford, O'Leary), got benched at various times and came back to contribute. The other two QB's were Keerome Lawrence and Brian Newman.

So I looked back at the roster and there were 6 QB's in that class. The other two were Nicholas White and David King. They ended up playing different positions, or not at all. O'Leary was the same way and never played QB.

[crusader11]

And the streak moves to 16 straight losses.

The only game that is quasi winnable will be on November 15th vs. Cornell.

The next three weeks will be pretty ugly: vs. Dartmouth, vs. Yale, @ Harvard.

[crusader11]

17 and counting for the feeble Lions.

Next up: a blowout home loss to Yale.

[bulldog10jw]

17 and counting for the feeble Lions.

Next up: a blowout home loss to Yale.

I think we all want Columbia to win, as long as it's not against our team.

[Wildcat Pride]

Just ask Princeton

[DFW HOYA]

So who wins first, Columbia or the Princeton lightweights?

http://www.goprincetontigers.com/SportSelect.dbml?&DB_OEM_ID=10600&SPID=4266&SPSID=46880

[Go Green]

So who wins first, Columbia or the Princeton lightweights?

http://www.goprincetontigers.com/SportSelect.dbml?&DB_OEM_ID=10600&SPID=4266&SPSID=46880

Columbia. Because nobody is going to ever lower admission standards for sprint football.

http://www.nytimes.com/1987/11/19/nyregion/eased-rules-for-athletes-upset-many-at-columbia.html

[NY Crusader 2010]

Just looked up some of the history behind Princeton sprint football -- literally only four games that are even CLOSE over a fifteen year period. It's amazing that the school can even generate enough student interest to keep a team going.

[dgtw]

What is sprint football?

[DFW HOYA]

What is sprint football?

Sprint (formerly lightweight) football is an Eastern league where all players are under a certain weight (originally, 150 pounds, now 172 pounds)

http://www.sprintfootball.com/p3_schedule_and_statistics.jsp

[Lehigh Football Nation]

That Columbia/Cornell game airing on Fox College Sports in a few weeks should be epic.

[Ivytalk]

That Columbia/Cornell game airing on Fox College Sports in a few weeks should be epically bad.

FIFY!

[Pards Rule]

Sprint (formerly lightweight) football is an Eastern league where all players are under a certain weight (originally, 150 pounds, now 172 pounds)

http://www.sprintfootball.com/p3_schedule_and_statistics.jsp
Hey I could have played then back in the day. Wet I was 123!!

[The Boogie Down]

Pete Mangurian to be fired in 26 days? According to Jake's blog change is coming soon: http://culions.blogspot.com

[Go Green]

Pete Mangurian to be fired in 26 days? According to Jake's blog change is coming soon: http://culions.blogspot.com

Looks like Jake is trying to poach several Ivy and PL coaches!!!

Of course, he's been calling for Gilmore to come to Columbia for a LONG while....

[crusader11]

18 and counting.

Next up: Harvard.

Uh-oh.

[bulldog10jw]

Harvard will be favored by at least 30

[LehighU11]

Columbia's last trip to Harvard was the week preceding their last win, back in 2012. Coming off a rare win at home against Yale, the Lions were slaughtered by the Crimson 69-0. Columbia returned home the following week to beat Cornell by three scores.

I'd wager that the Cantabs crush the lion cubs by 50+ this weekend, and then Columbia roars back with a win next week at home against SUNY Ithaca.

[Ivytalk]

Columbia's last trip to Harvard was the week preceding their last win, back in 2012. Coming off a rare win at home against Yale, the Lions were slaughtered by the Crimson 69-0. Columbia returned home the following week to beat Cornell by three scores.

I'd wager that the Cantabs crush the lion cubs by 50+ this weekend, and then Columbia roars back with a win next week at home against SUNY Ithaca.

Also, two years ago, Harvard followed its thrashing of Columbia with laying a steaming turd against Penn in Philadelphia. I suspect that Murphy will not let his kids run it up that badly this year.

[Go Green]

I'd wager that the Cantabs crush the lion cubs by 50+ this weekend, and then Columbia roars back with a win next week at home against SUNY Ithaca.

Harvard's good QB got banged up a bit against Dartmouth. And the trend seems to be give star players a rest against Columbia. Both Dartmouth and Yale pretty much treated the Columbia game as a scrimmage, so neither game was a bloodbath for the ages (although they could have been).

We will see what Harvard does. If they try their best, they'll approach the 69-0 slaughter. If they give backups a chance to get game action from the get-go, then their margin of victory will "only" be in the 30-point range.

[crusader11]

19 and counting.

Columbia has their best chance for a win this season as they host 0-8 Cornell next Saturday.

[bonarae]

It should be Cornell...

[crusader11]

Whoops, fixed it.

[bulldog10jw]

19 and counting.

Columbia has their best chance for a win this season as they host 0-8 Cornell next Saturday.

I'm hoping, but not expecting, Columbia to win next week and then Cornell to beat Penn in two weeks, so both teams get a win this yer.

[Ivytalk]

Third straight time that Harvard shut out Columbia.

[crusader11]

Average score this year for Columbia: 39.75 - 8.63

[LehighU11]

Columbia's last trip to Harvard was the week preceding their last win, back in 2012. Coming off a rare win at home against Yale, the Lions were slaughtered by the Crimson 69-0. Columbia returned home the following week to beat Cornell by three scores.

I'd wager that the Cantabs crush the lion cubs by 50+ this weekend, and then Columbia roars back with a win next week at home against SUNY Ithaca.

Not too far off on this weekend's score, and I still stand by my prediction that the streak will end against Cornell on Saturday.

Columbia's starting QB went 13/24 for 80 yards against Harvard, with 3 pick-6s totaling 131 yards. That's 2 more TDs than the Crimson had through the air yesterday (1 TD) and only 5 fewer return yards than Harvard had passing yards (136 yds).

[Go...gate]

Average score this year for Columbia: 39.75 - 8.63

Ouch.

[Go Green]

Washington Post takes notice.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/colleges/columbia-university-still-excelling-at-football-futility/2014/11/16/f6383e5c-6db0-11e4-ad12-3734c461eab6_story.html

[crusader11]

Barring a minor miracle in Providence this weekend, Columbia will enter the 2015 season with a 21 game losing streak.

[Go Green]

Barring a minor miracle in Providence this weekend, Columbia will enter the 2015 season with a 21 game losing streak.

And they open 2015 against Fordham.

:)

[Go...gate]

Fordham will be losing 17 or 18 senior starters, though.

[DatDude]

Fordham will be losing 17 or 18 senior starters, though. AND????? xcoffeex

[DFW HOYA]

Week 2's opponent should be more competitive for the Light Blue.

[Go Green]

Week 2's opponent should be more competitive for the Light Blue.

This statement is accurate as far as it goes.

But I don't expect the Georgetown game to end Columbia's streak.

http://www.si.com/college-football/2014/09/20/ap-fbc-brown-georgetown

[Go Green]

Poor Columbia. The president just announced that the coach will be returning next year.

http://culions.blogspot.com/2014/11/breaking-bollinger-intends-to-retain.html

You can pencil them at 0-10 for 2015. That will put the streak at 33 by the end of the year.

[DFW HOYA]

A tough recruiting pitch: 23 losses in a row, 10 more on the way, and , yes, we don't know who the coach will be in 2016.

Oh, and they open with Fordham next season.

[Go Green]

A tough recruiting pitch: 23 losses in a row, 10 more on the way, and , yes, we don't know who the coach will be in 2016.

Oh, and they open with Fordham next season.

Makes recruiting at Georgetown seem easy! :)

[crusader11]

Has Columbia's 2015 schedule been finalized? The seven Ivy games, Fordham, Georgetown, and..?

Just answered my own question: Wagner

[UAalum72]

Has Columbia's 2015 schedule been finalized? The seven Ivy games, Fordham, Georgetown, and..?Ivy Media Guide says the third game for 2015 is Wagner, then Fordham, Georgetown and Marist for 2016 & 17. But I don't think those future schedules are totally locked, and other teams still show open dates.
http://static.psbin.com/k/1/oviu6k6138gryy/14fbguide-Intro.pdf (page2)

[The Boogie Down]

Week 2's opponent should be more competitive for the Light Blue.
Doubt it. I've seen both teams in person. Similar score but you guys are a considerable notch above.

[ccd494]

Oooops: http://deadspin.com/columbia-footballers-coach-forced-us-to-play-through-c-1666801499

I had the over/under at 10 years for when Columbia drops the program, the under is looking good.

[Go Green]

That letter is going to make it very difficult for Columbia to retain the football coach for 2015--although they don't really have any good options at this point.

If Columbia does drop football, the billion-dollar question (literally) is whether the Ivy keeps Columbia for other sports or kicks them out for everything in search of a replacement.

[ccd494]

The Ivy #brand isn't football. Or basketball. Or hockey. It's academics. They are eight top academic institutions who associate together as "the Ivy League" to drive academic applications and prestige. The fact that they also play intercollegiate athletics together is secondary. Having Columbia (the 4th best university in the country per USNWR) in the Ivy enhances that academic brand, as does the fact that it is in the greatest city in the world. I think Columbia would still be an Ivy without football.

Heck, not playing in the playoffs says exactly how much football matters to the Ivy League.

[Go Green]

We'll see. But the league *was* formed as a football league. Although there's no doubt that Columbia is an elite school, they ain't Harvard, Yale, or Princeton. The Ivy League will survive just fine if we sub places like Georgetown, Army, and a few others for Columbia.

And if Columbia thinks that they can maintain the #4 ranking without the Ivy brand, all power to them. But do they really want to find out?

[ccd494]

I think you are severely overestimating how much current Ivy League university presidents care about football.

[Go Green]

Presumably, there was a reason why Columbia didn't drop football in the mid-1980s. I'm guessing the reason is that they didn't want to risk expulsion from the league. If you have a different theory, I'd love to hear it.

And trust me, those 1980-era Ivy Presidents were no fans of football either. Giamatti? Freedman? Bowen?

And if Columbia has new confidence that they'd allowed to stay in the league if they dropped football today, then all power to them. Maybe we will see if they are right.

In the meantime, I still think that the Ivy will want to replace Columbia if they dropped football. Otherwise, scheduling becomes a real pain with only seven members...

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Bob Kraft will not allow that to happen.

[ccd494]

I mean, I'm just guessing. In the 80's the Ivy was closer to the time when it was still pretending to be major college football. Scheduling would be harder, sure, in an 11 or 12 game schedule but here's a what if for you:

Is it completely nuts that the Ivy could start treating football like the NESCAC does? There are three conferences in all of college football that don't care to even try to play for a national title: the SWAC, the Ivy and the NESCAC. The SWAC makes its choice for money- the Bayou Classic and the SWAC title game bring in more money than the playoffs, so they are going to do that. The Ivy and the NESCAC just don't care enough to participate. So why play anyone else? The NESCAC has 11 full members, one of whom doesn't play football (Conn College). They play a completely insular eight game schedule, no out of conference, no playoffs. Maybe the Ivy starts playing an eight game schedule, round robin with the other six schools, and then picks up two extra games against traditional PL rivals (or traditional PFL rivals, as it is now). Maybe the Ivy even drops to six games, plays a completely insular schedule, and calls it good.

"We are limiting the time our athletes are out of class, we are limiting the possibilities that they get concussions, and we are playing the only games our fans care about anyways."

Again, I'm just speculating, but in the 80's it was tough to imagine being a serious American university without football. Today...

[Lehigh Football Nation]

If the IL was to try to suicide their football programs like that, the PL would be ready. They could easily fill their schedule with FBS, CAA, NEC games.

[ccd494]

Yeah. I dunno. I'm just spitballing. Like I said, the over/under I set for any Ivy to drop football was 10 years last offseason. We're at 9. Go Green obviously takes the over.

[Go Green]

Maybe the Ivy even drops to six games, plays a completely insular schedule, and calls it good.



Is that even permissible under NCAA rules?

I know that the NCAA requires you to play a minimum number of games to be recognized as a team. But I don't know what the number is....

[BucBisonAtLarge]

If the IL was to try to suicide their football programs like that, the PL would be ready. They could easily fill their schedule with FBS, CAA, NEC games.

Hell, at Bucknell that would mean replacing Cornell, as no other Ivy regularly shows up on our schedule. Bring back Gettysburg... or Temple...

Columbia is a program in trouble, if that letter is any indication. That happens. This is going to tube recruiting for another year, too. I think the larger context of DI athletics can make any college sports fan outside the P5 nervous, but generalizing this mess beyond the tip of Manhattan seems premature. For this East Coast guy, however, questioning an Ivy's participation seems ominous, no matter how many Houston Baptists and Kennesaw States add a program. We long ago lost faith in our universities' leadership choices. Silber at Boston University is still fresh in a lot minds.

I believe football players add diversity on these elite undergraduate campuses, and shutting football down means that those students will likely not apply, if they have a chance to go somewhere comparable and continue playing a few more years past high school. Is it make-or-break? No, but it is something to be considered.

[ccd494]

Is that even permissible under NCAA rules?

I know that the NCAA requires you to play a minimum number of games to be recognized as a team. But I don't know what the number is....

But what would the punishment be? No postseason?

[Go Green]

But what would the punishment be? No postseason?

Among others, no official recognition of existence. No records. No All-Americans.

It essentially becomes club football.

[Bill]

But what would the punishment be? No postseason?

Funny thing is, it wouldn't matter. If the Ivy League ever really wanted to battle the NCAA, they would win - hands down.

[bonarae]

Is it completely nuts that the Ivy could start treating football like the NESCAC does? There are three conferences in all of college football that don't care to even try to play for a national title: the SWAC, the Ivy and the NESCAC. The SWAC makes its choice for money- the Bayou Classic and the SWAC title game bring in more money than the playoffs, so they are going to do that. The Ivy and the NESCAC just don't care enough to participate. So why play anyone else? The NESCAC has 11 full members, one of whom doesn't play football (Conn College). They play a completely insular eight game schedule, no out of conference, no playoffs. Maybe the Ivy starts playing an eight game schedule, round robin with the other six schools, and then picks up two extra games against traditional PL rivals (or traditional PFL rivals, as it is now). Maybe the Ivy even drops to six games, plays a completely insular schedule, and calls it good.

"We are limiting the time our athletes are out of class, we are limiting the possibilities that they get concussions, and we are playing the only games our fans care about anyways."

Again, I'm just speculating, but in the 80's it was tough to imagine being a serious American university without football. Today...

Look at Chicago, perhaps? I have my backup plans ready for me to jump ship to either Chicago or ETSU should this happen to the Ivies. Chicago plays a full D-III schedule, but they have missed out on the playoffs each year they have been there with either a bad record or poor SOS. I'm still looking forward to the day Chicago will be in the Road to Salem, even if it's for only one playoff game, heck, I should say, they have a better chance of getting a shot at a national title than even Harvard does... xrolleyesx :D

What other serious American universities are without football? NYU. In Olympic sports Chicago and NYU are together in the UAA. The Violets have been without a football program since the 1950's. On the other hand, Vandy, Northwestern, Stanford, etc. are all committed to FBS. Johns Hopkins is a nationally-ranked D-III in football. MIT got its first ever football playoff bid this year, bowing out to Wesley in the second round.

ETSU, like New Haven several seasons back, is getting back on its feet again for football. We'll see if they can compete in an already-weakened SoCon for the first few seasons.


Among others, no official recognition of existence. No records. No All-Americans.

It essentially becomes club football.

Yes, it may well become club football... I don't like the concept at all. UNO Privateers aren't ready to take their club football program to scholarship level in the SLC.

[UAalum72]

Bylaw 20.9.4.3 - Division I football teams must play a minimum of nine games

20.9.8.2 Football Scheduling Requirement. [FCSD] The institution shall schedule and play more than 50 percent of its football games against Football Bowl Subdivision or Football Championship Subdivision members.

Other sections say that failure to comply with scheduling rules may result in Restricted Membership, followed by expulsion. Whether that means the entire institution or just for that sport is unclear to me.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

That's for Division I, which is why it doesn't apply to the NESCAC. Of course, they could allow Georgetown and Davidson as associate members in football. Then they could have their hermetically-sealed conference, call themselves D-I, and have a 9 game schedule where everyone plays everyone else.

[bonarae]

That's for Division I, which is why it doesn't apply to the NESCAC. Of course, they could allow Georgetown and Davidson as associate members in football. Then they could have their hermetically-sealed conference, call themselves D-I, and have a 9 game schedule where everyone plays everyone else.

Why Davidson? xconfusedx Georgetown is quite understandable to me by now.

[Go Green]

That's for Division I, which is why it doesn't apply to the NESCAC. .

Yep. Doing the NESCAC thing for anything less than nine games would put us in violation of the Dayton Rule.

Everything would have to drop down to D-III.

[bonarae]

Yep. Doing the NESCAC thing for anything less than nine games would put us in violation of the Dayton Rule.

Everything would have to drop down to D-III.

Should we start a signature petition to scrap the Dayton Rule? xrolleyesx

[Pard4Life]

Did anyone see that NYT article from two Saturday's ago? Basically said the administration is not going to take it anymore and they are going to try and fix things.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Should we start a signature petition to scrap the Dayton Rule? xrolleyesx

What exactly is the Dayton rule? I've gathered it has something to do with not being allowed to be a Division I school but play Division III in one or several sports. How is it that Johns Hopkins can be Division III but play Division I in lacrosse? Same goes for Le Moyne and Dallas Baptist which are Division II but play Division I baseball. And then of course you have a ton of DII schools in the upper Midwest that play D-I hockey.

[Go...gate]

Should we start a signature petition to scrap the Dayton Rule? xrolleyesx

YES. The Dayton Rule was and is a ridiculous idea.

[dgtw]

What exactly is the Dayton rule? I've gathered it has something to do with not being allowed to be a Division I school but play Division III in one or several sports. How is it that Johns Hopkins can be Division III but play Division I in lacrosse? Same goes for Le Moyne and Dallas Baptist which are Division II but play Division I baseball. And then of course you have a ton of DII schools in the upper Midwest that play D-I hockey.

Hopkins and a few others were grandfathered in when they passed the rule. No grandpas allowed in football.

There is no DII hockey so they get to play DI.

[Go Green]

What exactly is the Dayton rule? I've gathered it has something to do with not being allowed to be a Division I school but play Division III in one or several sports. How is it that Johns Hopkins can be Division III but play Division I in lacrosse? Same goes for Le Moyne and Dallas Baptist which are Division II but play Division I baseball. And then of course you have a ton of DII schools in the upper Midwest that play D-I hockey.

In the mid-1990s, some D-III teams complained that certain D-III schools (Dayton) were getting too much of an advantage by playing D-III football while maintaining D-I athletic facilities for all their other sports. And as dgtw explained, there were a few teams that were grandfathered to the rule.

It's the reason why schools like Georgetown and others were forced to move up to I-AA in football when they really should be D-III. Caused many programs to fold when they just couldn't maintain football a D-I level. Among others, St. John's, Iona, St. Peters, and I'm sure others I'm not recalling.

[DFW HOYA]

It's the reason why schools like Georgetown and others were forced to move up to I-AA in football when they really should be D-III. Caused many programs to fold when they just couldn't maintain football a D-I level. Among others, St. John's, Iona, St. Peters, and I'm sure others I'm not recalling.

Only one program affected by the Dayton rule chose to fold its program (Santa Clara, in Division II) rather than moving up. The loss of the MAAC schools in the 2000's was for other reasons.

I continue to question any who would claim that Georgetown "really should be D-III" when it is funding its program at an Ivy/low NEC level. The disparity with the PL, the second most expensive conference by budget, is the long-term issue.

[Go Green]

I continue to question any who would claim that Georgetown "really should be D-III" when it is funding its program at an Ivy/low NEC level. The disparity with the PL, the second most expensive conference by budget, is the long-term issue.

If Columbia drops football, Georgetown will be a prime candidate to take the vacancy in the Ivy. That's a given.

That being said, the general feeling seems to be that but for the Dayton Rule, Georgetown would have stayed in D-III. Were there plans in the early 1990s to upgrade Georgetown Football prior to the Dayton Rule? If so, I didn't know about them. Always seemed that Georgetown Football and I-AA was a shotgun wedding...

[DFW HOYA]

Were there plans in the early 1990s to upgrade Georgetown Football prior to the Dayton Rule? If so, I didn't know about them. Always seemed that Georgetown Football and I-AA was a shotgun wedding...

A little but not much. As an independent, there wasn't much of an upgrade path unless there was a conference option, which there was not at the time before the MAAC came along.

[ccd494]

The hockey schools aren't actually affected by the Dayton Rule. It was later D-III legislation that prevented playups.

In 1971, when the divisions were created, some schools that went to D-III were playing at the highest level, those schools are grandfathered in with scholarships (and could later add one women's program to match),

Schools grandfathered in with scholarships since 1971:
Clarkson (M&W hockey)
Colorado College (M&W hockey)
Hartwick (M soccer, W water polo)
Johns Hopkins (M&W lax)
RPI (M&W hockey)
St. Lawrence (M&W hockey)

The Dayton Rule went into effect in 1992, moving all the teams playing down back to D-I.

Between 1971 and 2007, D-III schools could move one program up to D-I for both men and women, but not offer scholarships. RIT actually moved their women's program up after 2007 but were allowed to do so for Title IX reasons.

Playing up without scholarships:
Franklin & Marshall (M wrestling)
Hobart (M lax)
MIT (W rowing)
RIT (M&W hockey)
Union (M&W hockey)

There are no longer any possibilities for teams to move between divisions, unless their division doesn't offer a sport. So, D-II schools can play D-I hockey (ex. Merrimack, Alabama-Huntsville, Mercyhurst, Bentley, etc.), but a D-III school couldn't start.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Remember when the MAAC schools all invoked Title IX as a reason for dropping football, even though they were all non-scholarship programs? That's as bad as UAB's president being handed a feasibility study with a two-line expense spreadsheet, one with FBS football, and one with no football at all.

[kdinva]

Head coach Pete Mangurian is resigning today:

http://footballscoop.com/the-scoop/

[The Boogie Down]

Only one program affected by the Dayton rule chose to fold its program (Santa Clara, in Division II) rather than moving up
Too bad for Santa Clara. Without looking it up I remember them being a decent D-II. Better than St. Mary's. Better than the MAAC/NEC/PFL teams as well. Travel woulda been costly but they easily coulda played at the IL/PL level.



If Columbia drops football, Georgetown will be a prime candidate to take the vacancy in the Ivy.
Shhhhhh… Don't tell Holy Cross!

(Oh and big thumbs up if Pete Mangurian is indeed out!) xthumbsupx

[Go Green]

Head coach Pete Mangurian is resigning today:

http://footballscoop.com/the-scoop/




Great news for Columbia!

Bad news for Georgetown. Pushing Mangurian out the door means Columbia is still taking football (relatively) seriously. Should quell any talk to dropping football, even if the program is in a shambles.

[Gate83]

Columbia was never going anywhere, funny to see the speculation. The Columbia brand is completely tied to the Ivy affiliation, without it they're NYU uptown. Gtown will have to continue to take their PL football ass-kickings while their hoop scholar-athletes continue to bring academic honor to the Jesuits...

[MylesKnight]

"The loss of the MAAC schools in the 2000's was for other reasons."

DFW Hoya, I would like to read more about this... Are there any articles covering this as a whole?

[DFW HOYA]

Gtown will have to continue to take their PL football ass-kickings while their hoop scholar-athletes continue to bring academic honor to the Jesuits...

That's such a shallow argument that it defies a detailed response. Rest assured that a range of basketball players from Tagliabue to Mutombo, from a former commandant of the USMC right through to a high school English teacher, do bring honor to the University... and that there's not a welding major nor an Evening College graduate among them.

As for the MAAC, it's probably worth its own thread. The move away from football did nothing for these schools, not a one. As the son of a former All-American at Georgetown once said, "you are what your schedule says you are." And these schools are nowhere.

[NY Crusader 2010]

there's not a welding major nor an Evening College graduate among them.



Just wondering, why would it matter what time of day they attend class?

[heath]

Just wondering, why would it matter what time of day they attend class?
If you live inside the beltway things are just different, and better. Just ask a GU grad,then cover your ears as he will not shut up.xbowx

[HoyaMetanoia]

Columbia was never going anywhere, funny to see the speculation. The Columbia brand is completely tied to the Ivy affiliation, without it they're NYU uptown. Gtown will have to continue to take their PL football ass-kickings while their hoop scholar-athletes continue to bring academic honor to the Jesuits...

Nice thinly veiled racism right there.

[DFW HOYA]

Just wondering, why would it matter what time of day they attend class?


A Sader fan that hasn't heard of BC's Evening College?

http://www.boston.com/sports/articles/2007/06/08/degree_of_contention/?page=full

[crusader11]

Columbia will have interim coaches in the interim: http://culions.blogspot.com/2014/12/breaking-tellier-rippon-to-share.html

[Sader87]

A Sader fan that hasn't heard of BC's Evening College?

http://www.boston.com/sports/articles/2007/06/08/degree_of_contention/?page=full

He's young...sadly they barely know of BC being an athletic rival for Holy Cross.

[crusader11]

Columbia's losing streak is at 24 games, but I think that comes to an end this weekend vs. Wagner.

Despite getting off to an 0-3 start, Bagnoli actually has Columbia playing competitive football, something that Mangurian never accomplished.

[bulldog10jw]

Columbia's losing streak is at 24 games, but I think that comes to an end this weekend vs. Wagner.


I hope so. Yale plays Columbia on Halloween and I hope the streak is over so we don't have to hear about it all week.