Move "UP" from FCS to FBS

[jimbo65]

Below is a post from the Fordham Board as to how teams fared who moved from FCS to FBS. Actually, Army should not be included as they have always been in the top division as far as I know. Sagarin is not the best source, but is a source, so take the rankings for what you believe they are worth. I was unable to find in archives the thread that addressed moving up to FBS so I started this one. Sorry the results got messed up in copying to here.


just to dovetail on how disastrous moving to FBS generally is, here are
relatively recent teams that moved to FBS that we are ranked ahead of according
to sagarin, and their records... and 2 additional teams of note http://cdn.smfboards.com/Smileys/default/smiley.gif

122 Fordham AA = 58.00 5 1 41.21( 223) 0 0 | 0 0 | 58.31
124 | 58.18 120 | 58.27 128
124 Wake Forest A = 57.93 2
4 67.10( 61) 0 0 | 0 2 | 58.69 120 | 58.09 121 | 57.79
131
126 Army A = 57.64 2 3 59.16( 131) 0 0
| 0 1 | 60.30 114 | 56.88 129 | 59.11 119
144 Old Dominion
A = 54.61 3 3 59.68( 128) 0 0 | 0 0 | 53.83 155 |
54.17 143 | 59.08 120
148 Connecticut A = 52.76 1 4
65.01( 82) 0 0 | 0 0 | 53.45 156 | 53.39 147 | 51.47
170
159 Appalachian State A = 51.27 1 4 58.62( 135) 0 0 |
0 0 | 55.87 141 | 51.01 160 | 49.27 180
173 Massachusetts
A = 49.22 0 6 63.11( 100) 0 0 | 0 0 | 47.91 190 |
51.73 156 | 40.67 220
178 Georgia State A = 48.46 1 4
57.52( 144) 0 0 | 0 0 | 46.33 199 | 50.36 163 | 44.94
204

also worthy of note, the 2nd highest rated FCS team is villanova at
#63 behind the 1st, ndsu, at #52. we ran into a mack truck earlier this
season.

[superman7515]

Wake Forest did not move to FBS, and as you said, the same was true for Army. Then again, you're taking an extremely small sample size here by looking at the results of 6 weeks of one season. If you want to make the argument, you'll have to show how the last 10 years of Fordham have stacked up against the last 10 years of Boise State, UConn, Marshall, etc.

[Sader87]

Wake shouldn't be listed here either...

It depends on the school. At best it's a very mixed bag. For every Boise St and maybe UConn, there are countless examples of schools that probably were bettah suited to staying at the FCS-level i.e. no real attendance growth moving to FBS, no real on-field success at the FBS level etc etc

The only non-state school I could see possibly making this jump in the future (if in fact the current system is still in place) is Liberty.

[jimbo65]

Wake Forest did not move to FBS, and as you said, the same was true for Army. Then again, you're taking an extremely small sample size here by looking at the results of 6 weeks of one season. If you want to make the argument, you'll have to show how the last 10 years of Fordham have stacked up against the last 10 years of Boise State, UConn, Marshall, etc.

Actually, I am not making an argument one way or the other. Obviouly Fordham does not stack up to the schools you mention over the last 10 years. If you want to go back 60 years we surpass them.
Right now according to Sagarin, we are better now.

[CHIP72]

Wake Forest did not move to FBS, and as you said, the same was true for Army. Then again, you're taking an extremely small sample size here by looking at the results of 6 weeks of one season. If you want to make the argument, you'll have to show how the last 10 years of Fordham have stacked up against the last 10 years of Boise State, UConn, Marshall, etc.

Probably the better comparison would be between teams that have been good every year or almost every year and have stayed in Division I-AA and a teams that have moved up in the last 10-15 years, especially those that were very good at the Division I-AA level for an extended period before moving up.

[2ram]

Wake Forest did not move to FBS, and as you said, the same was true for Army. Then again, you're taking an extremely small sample size here by looking at the results of 6 weeks of one season. If you want to make the argument, you'll have to show how the last 10 years of Fordham have stacked up against the last 10 years of Boise State, UConn, Marshall, etc.

wake was listed because there's a certain fordham board poster that loves wake. army because we play them later this year. those were the 2 additional teams of note.

the rest were recent movers.

[chattanoogamocs]

And moving up next year...

212 Charlotte

[NDSUSR]

Its kind of funny that the FSU board was discussing (jokingly) dropping to FCS and becoming the "new" NDSU.
:)

[Blue Eagle]

You forgot about another team that moved up this year. Ga. Southern is 4 & 2 and would be 6 & 0 except for an absolutely horrendous (https://www.google.com/search?q=define+horrendous&sa=X&ei=DxczVOCdFcG3yATo_IDACg&ved=0CCcQ_SowAA) call on a replay late in the fourth quarter of the Ga. Tech game and a fumble in the fourth quarter in the NC State game on 1st & goal on State's 1 yard line!

Just for the record, I certainly believe there are a number of FCS programs that could be successful in the FBS! ND State could probably win the Big Ten! Seriously, such programs as ND State, Montana, Delaware, Youngstown State, James Madison, SHSU, McNeese State are just a few of the FCS programs that could be successful in the FBS!

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

Army didn't move up.

I look forward to playing Fordham. Hopefully, I will be able to attend the game. I just attended the Ball State-Army game and despite the pouring downfall, I had a fine time. Fordham should be FBS, your legacy has earned the Rams, a granite-lined ticket to the big times.

[citdog]

You forgot about another team that moved up this year. Ga. Southern is 4 & 2 and would be 6 & 0 except for an absolutely horrendous (https://www.google.com/search?q=define+horrendous&sa=X&ei=DxczVOCdFcG3yATo_IDACg&ved=0CCcQ_SowAA) call on a replay late in the fourth quarter of the Ga. Tech game and a fumble in the fourth quarter in the NC State game on 1st & goal on State's 1 yard line!

NOBODY CARES! TAKE IT TO THE SUN BELCH BOARD!

- - - Updated - - -


Army didn't move up.

I look forward to playing Fordham. Hopefully, I will be able to attend the game. I just attended the Ball State-Army game and despite the pouring downfall, I had a fine time. Fordham should be FBS, your legacy has earned the Rams, a granite-lined ticket to the big times.

Fordham can't get out of the second round of the playoffs but should move up. WTF is WRONG with you yankees?

[Sitting Bull]

Probably the better comparison would be between teams that have been every year or almost every year and have stayed in Division I-AA and a teams that have moved up in the last 10-15 years, especially those that were very good at the Division I-AA level for an extended period before moving up.

check out Idaho vs Idaho State


or EKU and WKU

or Akron vs Youngstown State

[The Eagle's Cliff]

[QUOTE=citdog;2156745]NOBODY CARES! TAKE IT TO THE SUN BELCH BOARD!

You probably should care. App is having some growing pains, but the SoCon is absolutely stinking it up! NEC, Patriot, Big South, OVC, and MEAC are ahead of the SoSoCon. If we're so forgettable, why do you still have your 2-point Super Bowl victory over us two years ago as your signature???

ND St. is the only team in Sagarin's ratings that is legit. Top 25 FCS to Bottom 50 FBS is pretty even talent-wise with some FCS being obviously better, but the depth issue is very real.


- - - Updated

[kalm]

Tell me, which conferences do Georgia So. And APP St play in again? Which bowls are they going too?

[citdog]

[QUOTE=citdog;2156745]NOBODY CARES! TAKE IT TO THE SUN BELCH BOARD!

You probably should care. App is having some growing pains, but the SoCon is absolutely stinking it up! NEC, Patriot, Big South, OVC, and MEAC are ahead of the SoSoCon. If we're so forgettable, why do you still have your 2-point Super Bowl victory over us two years ago as your signature???

ND St. is the only team in Sagarin's ratings that is legit. Top 25 FCS to Bottom 50 FBS is pretty even talent-wise with some FCS being obviously better, but the depth issue is very real.


- - - Updated

It was WAY sweeter when Neheimah Broughton, I KNOW you remember, ruined your homecoming!

NOBODY MISSES YOU OR YOUR MANLOVER yosef.

[2ram]

Tell me, which conferences do Georgia So. And APP St play in again? Which bowls are they going too?

idk if they're bowl eligible, but both play in the sunbelt. so does georgia state.

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

NOBODY CARES! TAKE IT TO THE SUN BELCH BOARD!

- - - Updated - - -



Fordham can't get out of the second round of the playoffs but should move up. WTF is WRONG with you yankees?

I ask myself the same thing. I may be a blood resident of PA, but I am more Southern than Yankee. And like any other good Southern man, I appreciate history. Fordham has the history.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Tell me, which conferences do Georgia So. And APP St play in again? Which bowls are they going too?

Some FBS nothing league that's now practically indistinguishable from other nothing FBS leagues like the MAC and CUSA. It's all right though, because we're divorced from the SoCon who obviously has different ideas about how the direction the conference should go with membership than Southern and App.

[AmsterBison]

Here's what worries me about the FBS (just from NDSU's perspective.)

In D2, NDSU was at the top as far as facilities, budget, salaries - heck, everything. And NDSU won... a lot.

In the FCS, even before upgrading, NDSU was in the top 10 or 15 in all those areas. NDSU had coach whose teams had 5 10-win seasons before losing him to a not very good FBS team who was willing to spend $1 million/year on his salary. Anyway, NDSU is winning... a lot.

In the FBS, NDSU would be not be in the top half in facilities, budget, or coaching salaries, even with a big upgrade. And coaches who win 10 games at the FBS level? They are hired immediately by a school that can pay money that NDSU would never get away with spending. Cripes, look at NIU or Arkansas State. And even the big prize (bowl games) are dead... it's just that, like the apocryphal dinosaur, it's going to take a while for that fact to filter up to the brain.

[bluehenbillk]

You forgot about another team that moved up this year. Ga. Southern is 4 & 2 and would be 6 & 0 except for an absolutely horrendous (https://www.google.com/search?q=define+horrendous&sa=X&ei=DxczVOCdFcG3yATo_IDACg&ved=0CCcQ_SowAA) call on a replay late in the fourth quarter of the Ga. Tech game and a fumble in the fourth quarter in the NC State game on 1st & goal on State's 1 yard line!

Just for the record, I certainly believe there are a number of FCS programs that could be successful in the FBS! ND State could probably win the Big Ten! Seriously, such programs as ND State, Montana, Delaware, Youngstown State, James Madison, SHSU, McNeese State are just a few of the FCS programs that could be successful in the FBS!

Sad to report, but I believe Delaware's window is on the cusp of passing. The fan support is dropping like a dead weight. Season ticket sales have dropped more than 40% in just 5 years & average attendance is down a third in the same time, probably more if you counted the actual #'s instead of just the announced #.

[DFW HOYA]

There are lots of teams which moved up to I-A:

AAC:
UCF
South Florida
Connecticut

Conference USA:
Middle Tennessee
FIU
FAU
Marshall
Old Dominion
Western Kentucky
North Texas


MAC:
Massachusetts


Mountain West:
Boise State

Sun Belt:
Georgia Southern
Texas State
Arkansas State
Louisiana-Lafayette
Louisiana-Monroe
Troy
Georgia State
Appalachian State


There are probably a few others as well.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

There are lots of teams which moved up to I-A:

AAC:
UCF
South Florida
Connecticut

Conference USA:
Middle Tennessee
FIU
FAU
Marshall
Old Dominion
Western Kentucky
North Texas


MAC:
Massachusetts


Mountain West:
Boise State

Sun Belt:
Georgia Southern
Texas State
Arkansas State
Louisiana-Lafayette
Louisiana-Monroe
Troy
Georgia State
Appalachian State


There are probably a few others as well.

P5 schools: 0

[The Eagle's Cliff]

Here's what worries me about the FBS (just from NDSU's perspective.)

In D2, NDSU was at the top as far as facilities, budget, salaries - heck, everything. And NDSU won... a lot.

In the FCS, even before upgrading, NDSU was in the top 10 or 15 in all those areas. NDSU had coach whose teams had 5 10-win seasons before losing him to a not very good FBS team who was willing to spend $1 million/year on his salary. Anyway, NDSU is winning... a lot.

In the FBS, NDSU would be not be in the top half in facilities, budget, or coaching salaries, even with a big upgrade. And coaches who win 10 games at the FBS level? They are hired immediately by a school that can pay money that NDSU would never get away with spending. Cripes, look at NIU or Arkansas State. And even the big prize (bowl games) are dead... it's just that, like the apocryphal dinosaur, it's going to take a while for that fact to filter up to the brain.

NDSU wouldn't miss a beat in the MAC or MW. I've said it many times, but Delaware, Montana, and NDSU are in I-AA because they're in small population states. The Ivy's have plenty of money to compete, but have chosen to be in their own private club away from the riff raff. Ga Southern has gotten more national media attention in the last 11 months than the previous 30 years combined. That attention has already begun to pay dividends in corporate sponsorship. Reclassifying is definitely not for everyone and there are some in FBS that will never be anything, but it's the right choice for us. We were losing some recruits to Middle Tenn, UAB, Southern Miss, Troy, Western Ky., Fla Int'l, Fla Atl, etc because of the 'FBS' label. Add ODU, Ga St. South Ala., and Charlotte to the mix along with Mercer and Kennesaw St. and we had to move.

Our thinking was, and still is, that we want to be at the top of the 2nd Tier in College Football. The BCS and now the playoff have contributed to further dividing I-A into two classifications leaving I-AA as the 3rd. I have no doubt NDSU and Montana will make the move along with a few other western teams. SBC needs one more. WAC can still revive I believe.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Our thinking was, and still is, that we want to be at the top of the 2nd Tier in College Football. The BCS and now the playoff have contributed to further dividing I-A into two classifications leaving I-AA as the 3rd. I have no doubt NDSU and Montana will make the move along with a few other western teams. SBC needs one more. WAC can still revive I believe.

Where to begin?

[PaladinFan]

I still just think it is all relative. I live in Georgia, am familiar with Georgia Southern, and outside of occasional news articles in papers that already reported on Eagle football, an occasional billboard, and periodic blip on the highlight reels when they play an ACC school, I do not hear much about them at all. I think it is all a matter of your perspective. If you are attune to Eagle football, you note their coverage. If you are not, they might as well exist in theory.

I've said this for years, but it is all in what you are looking for. If you are convinced that the grass is greener in the FBS, then you will not be happy until you are there.

Look, if conference road games in Las Cruces, New Mexico are what you want, then go for it. I think the overwhelming information on the subject would indicate that the move is a struggle for many programs. Plenty are a flash in the pan that go on to years of mediocrity. Unfortunately for App, the mediocrity has already begun.

[PAllen]

Sad to report, but I believe Delaware's window is on the cusp of passing. The fan support is dropping like a dead weight. Season ticket sales have dropped more than 40% in just 5 years & average attendance is down a third in the same time, probably more if you counted the actual #'s instead of just the announced #.

I hear what you're saying, but how good were UCONN's attendance numbers before they moved up? Yes, they've got a bigger population to play with, but current/recent attendance isn't everything.

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

Read "Shake Down the Thunder" for the explanation.

After Notre Dame made it big, many schools tried (and failed) to replicate their success. Notre Dame had (and has) an unique mixture of identify, religion, talent, coaching, press support, etc to become the Vatican of CFB. Most of the icons in CFB have similar background stories of uniqueness or divine circumstance.

CFB is cyclical. Every decade bears the rise of teams dreaming to rub crystal elbows with the elites. Few, if any, will make it at this point. It has become been that way since Yale and Harvard ruled the Gilded Age. For every Notre Dame, there lied a broken St. Louis squad. Teams will forever chase the dream because the glories of CFB (FBS) success outweighs the costs of participation. FCS Football is not a moneymaker for most schools. College professors may preach to share the wealth, but the colleges themselves are capitalistic as the oil baron.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

I still just think it is all relative. I live in Georgia, am familiar with Georgia Southern, and outside of occasional news articles in papers that already reported on Eagle football, an occasional billboard, and periodic blip on the highlight reels when they play an ACC school, I do not hear much about them at all. I think it is all a matter of your perspective. If you are attune to Eagle football, you note their coverage. If you are not, they might as well exist in theory.

I've said this for years, but it is all in what you are looking for. If you are convinced that the grass is greener in the FBS, then you will not be happy until you are there.

Look, if conference road games in Las Cruces, New Mexico are what you want, then go for it. I think the overwhelming information on the subject would indicate that the move is a struggle for many programs. Plenty are a flash in the pan that go on to years of mediocrity. Unfortunately for App, the mediocrity has already begun.

We have two nationally-broadcasted games on ESPNU, one on CBS Sports, one on Sports South, and the games at Tech and NC State were also regionally televised. Obviously those aren't first-string sports stations, but it's more television than probably any FCS school gets in a season unless you are like NDSU and get College Game Day.

Our two home crowds so far are both in the top 5 in program history (this is versus Savannah State and App State) and there is the possibility of this week's crowd with Idaho being the largest ever. Let that sink in, FBS bottom-feeder Idaho could draw a larger crowd than we got for the I-AA National Championship in Statesboro. It's not a matter of perspective - on those fronts the situation is clearly better.

It sucks not being able to be a part of the FCS playoffs - it's unquestioningly more exciting from my perspective than playing in a lower-tier bowl game on weekdays even if isn't as much of a financial drain and gets better TV. I do very much to prefer the regular season for the Sun Belt, though. There might be more ambiguity if we were in a league like the MVFC, but we were in the SoCon who invited a Big South doormat into the league. Like I said, if you are happy with what the SoCon has added in terms of membership fine, but don't pretend like the league isn't taking a real hit in terms of perception in the FCS world.

[citdog]

We have two nationally-broadcasted games on ESPNU, one on CBS Sports, one on Sports South, and the games at Tech and NC State were also regionally televised. Obviously those aren't first-string sports stations, but it's more television than probably any FCS school gets in a season unless you are like NDSU and get College Game Day.

Our two home crowds so far are both in the top 5 in program history (this is versus Savannah State and App State) and there is the possibility of this week's crowd with Idaho being the largest ever. Let that sink in, FBS bottom-feeder Idaho could draw a larger crowd than we got for the I-AA National Championship in Statesboro. It's not a matter of perspective - on those fronts the situation is clearly better.

It sucks not being able to be a part of the FCS playoffs - it's unquestioningly more exciting from my perspective than playing in a lower-tier bowl game on weekdays even if isn't as much of a financial drain and gets better TV. I do very much to prefer the regular season for the Sun Belt, though. There might be more ambiguity if we were in a league like the MVFC, but we were in the SoCon who invited a Big South doormat into the league. Like I said, if you are happy with what the SoCon has added in terms of membership fine, but don't pretend like the league isn't taking a real hit in terms of perception in the FCS world.

VMI is 100000000000000000000 times the school that pig's ass is. GLAD to have them back. Just wait until you begin losing recruits to Bobby Lamb. Again NOBODY GIVES A PINCH OF EAGLE **** ABOUT YOU OR WHAT YOU HAVE TO TELL YOURSELF. WE ARE GLAD TO BE RID OF YOU SOUTH GA CLAYEATING TRASH. TAKE IT TO THE SUN BELCH BOARD WHERE Y'ALL CAN DECIDE WHO THE TALLEST MIDGET IS.

[Sitting Bull]

There are lots of teams which moved up to I-A:

AAC:
UCF
South Florida
Connecticut

Conference USA:
Middle Tennessee
FIU
FAU
Marshall
Old Dominion
Western Kentucky
North Texas


MAC:
Massachusetts


Mountain West:
Boise State

Sun Belt:
Georgia Southern
Texas State
Arkansas State
Louisiana-Lafayette
Louisiana-Monroe
Troy
Georgia State
Appalachian State


There are probably a few others as well.

Yes, two others that have moved out from under the obscurity of FCS to the bright lights of FBS, University of Idaho and Akron.

im not sure USF ever played FCS.

The list looks so dull. Every one of those schools, with just a handful of exceptions, are still operating as layups for the P5. If these guys really thought they raised their profile, they are widely mistaken.

[Sitting Bull]

NDSU wouldn't miss a beat in the MAC or MW. I've said it many times, but Delaware, Montana, and NDSU are in I-AA because they're in small population states. The Ivy's have plenty of money to compete, but have chosen to be in their own private club away from the riff raff. Ga Southern has gotten more national media attention in the last 11 months than the previous 30 years combined. That attention has already begun to pay dividends in corporate sponsorship. Reclassifying is definitely not for everyone and there are some in FBS that will never be anything, but it's the right choice for us. We were losing some recruits to Middle Tenn, UAB, Southern Miss, Troy, Western Ky., Fla Int'l, Fla Atl, etc because of the 'FBS' label. Add ODU, Ga St. South Ala., and Charlotte to the mix along with Mercer and Kennesaw St. and we had to move.

Our thinking was, and still is, that we want to be at the top of the 2nd Tier in College Football. The BCS and now the playoff have contributed to further dividing I-A into two classifications leaving I-AA as the 3rd. I have no doubt NDSU and Montana will make the move along with a few other western teams. SBC needs one more. WAC can still revive I believe.

i guess I missed all that national media attention for Ga Southern, but then again, I don't get the Albuquerque paper.

[Smitty]

VMI is 100000000000000000000 times the school that pig's ass is. GLAD to have them back. Just wait until you begin losing recruits to Bobby Lamb. Again NOBODY GIVES A PINCH OF EAGLE **** ABOUT YOU OR WHAT YOU HAVE TO TELL YOURSELF. WE ARE GLAD TO BE RID OF YOU SOUTH GA CLAYEATING TRASH. TAKE IT TO THE SUN BELCH BOARD WHERE Y'ALL CAN DECIDE WHO THE TALLEST MIDGET IS.

Okay who forgot to give CitDog his meds again?

[Sader87]

Not that it mattahs in one way or another, but I would wager that most casual college football fans (particularly outside of the South) would think that both Conference USA and the Sun Belt were not at the FBS-level.

[PaladinFan]

We have two nationally-broadcasted games on ESPNU, one on CBS Sports, one on Sports South, and the games at Tech and NC State were also regionally televised. Obviously those aren't first-string sports stations, but it's more television than probably any FCS school gets in a season unless you are like NDSU and get College Game Day.

Our two home crowds so far are both in the top 5 in program history (this is versus Savannah State and App State) and there is the possibility of this week's crowd with Idaho being the largest ever. Let that sink in, FBS bottom-feeder Idaho could draw a larger crowd than we got for the I-AA National Championship in Statesboro. It's not a matter of perspective - on those fronts the situation is clearly better.

It sucks not being able to be a part of the FCS playoffs - it's unquestioningly more exciting from my perspective than playing in a lower-tier bowl game on weekdays even if isn't as much of a financial drain and gets better TV. I do very much to prefer the regular season for the Sun Belt, though. There might be more ambiguity if we were in a league like the MVFC, but we were in the SoCon who invited a Big South doormat into the league. Like I said, if you are happy with what the SoCon has added in terms of membership fine, but don't pretend like the league isn't taking a real hit in terms of perception in the FCS world.

Again, its a matter of your perspective. There are so many sports channels and so much football, you are bound to be televised.

Many of these games are the Pandora radio of college football. Sure, your band is on the station, but at the end of the day, you are just background music. No one cares or does not care about Georgia Southern any more today than they did last week. They might stop on a station just because it is on.

This is an unresolvable argument. As I have said for years, GSU wanted to make the move. They decided it was the best for them. It effects the sports-following lives of virtually nobody. Georgia Southern is as irrelevant or relevant today as they were last season.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Our two home crowds so far are both in the top 5 in program history (this is versus Savannah State and App State) and there is the possibility of this week's crowd with Idaho being the largest ever. Let that sink in, FBS bottom-feeder Idaho could draw a larger crowd than we got for the I-AA National Championship in Statesboro. It's not a matter of perspective - on those fronts the situation is clearly better.

I believe it's called "cooking the books". The conversation goes something like this:

AD: We need to justify our new 25% raises, paid for by student fees!

Assistant: Let's double-count our comp tickets! That way the box score will read double attendance!

AD: Make it so, No. 1!

[Sitting Bull]

Actually, they expanded the stadium. They could have just as easily shown same numbers as FCS had the stadium been expanded earlier. Both games this yesr were against FCS teams (yes, know Appy is in SB now).

If they are trying to sell the demand for Idaho as one devoted to playing in a big boy league, not buying it.

[chattanoogamocs]

I believe it's called "cooking the books". The conversation goes something like this:

AD: We need to justify our new 25% raises, paid for by student fees!

Assistant: Let's double-count our comp tickets! That way the box score will read double attendance!

AD: Make it so, No. 1!

I disagree with this...the attendance GSU is getting is legit...but I think it is more "Year One" excitement, plus, they have played a lot better so far this year than last year.

They finished middle of the pack in the SoCon last year and looks like they could win the Sun Belt this year...so they are obviously really excited to be in an easier conference. ;)

But seriously, I agree with Paladin Fan. Most GSU and ASU fans were absolutely miserable in the SoCon/FCS. I am happy they moved up because that was their dream (though for ASU, it has turned into a nightmare for now). I have no need to look down on what someone else deems as important. I don't begrudge someone wanting a fancier car just because I don't want the expense of one.

And along the same lines, I am happy they left because I was tired of being around a bunch of ASU/GSU fans on here that spent all their time running down the SoCon and FCS. That is the reason I am now back on here posting on a regular basis, the eternal bitch fest is over and the level of discourse has risen (well, except for Chattown).

See...it's a win/win...everyone's happier!

[citdog]

Okay who forgot to give CitDog his meds again?

I'm beginning to regret telling you about Bowen's Island.

[bluehenbillk]

I hear what you're saying, but how good were UCONN's attendance numbers before they moved up? Yes, they've got a bigger population to play with, but current/recent attendance isn't everything.

UConn had the avenue to the Big East & the rivalries established from other sports already laid out on the red carpet for them so it's totally an apples to oranges comparison. Heck UConn blew as a 1-AA team as well - they were pretty non-competitive in the old Yankee Conference days of the 80's & 90's before they left.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

For a while UConn was a poster program for FBS done right - until the Big East imploded. Even then it required a loophole and a used-to-be-P5 conference desperate for membership.

[eaglewraith]

I believe it's called "cooking the books". The conversation goes something like this:

AD: We need to justify our new 25% raises, paid for by student fees!

Assistant: Let's double-count our comp tickets! That way the box score will read double attendance!

AD: Make it so, No. 1!

Yep, lots of book cooking going on here.

http://imgur.com/D8ypeKQ.jpg
http://imgur.com/kOkWmBt.jpg

[ElCid]

Not that it mattahs in one way or another, but I would wager that most casual college football fans (particularly outside of the South) would think that both Conference USA and the Sun Belt were not at the FBS-level.

Actually I was in a conversation today, in middle Georgia, with a Ga Tech alum and Tenn fan who did not know what the Sun Belt was, let alone that is was FBS. Pretty funny.

[ZableNoise]

We have two nationally-broadcasted games on ESPNU, one on CBS Sports, one on Sports South, and the games at Tech and NC State were also regionally televised. Obviously those aren't first-string sports stations, but it's more television than probably any FCS school gets in a season unless you are like NDSU and get College Game Day.


That's less than I would have imagined. I can't speak for other schools but W&M has a national game on ESPNews, two on NBC Sports, three regional games on Comcast, and another game is on the American Sports Network. And William & Mary really isn't that big of a draw for TV.

[JALMOND]

There are lots of teams which moved up to I-A:

AAC:
UCF
South Florida
Connecticut

Conference USA:
Middle Tennessee
FIU
FAU
Marshall
Old Dominion
Western Kentucky
North Texas


MAC:
Massachusetts


Mountain West:
Boise State

Sun Belt:
Georgia Southern
Texas State
Arkansas State
Louisiana-Lafayette
Louisiana-Monroe
Troy
Georgia State
Appalachian State


There are probably a few others as well.

Nevada, when they were known as Nevada-Reno.

[Rjones61]

Which teams does this board think would be able to move up with minimal repercussions? Montana, NDSU, maybe MSU come to mind for me.

[Punchy]

WOW! UNC-Charlotte is moving up to FBS?

[Punchy]

Wow! UNC-Charlotte is moving up to FBS?

[Punchy]

Which teams does this board think would be able to move up with minimal repercussions? Montana, NDSU, maybe MSU come to mind for me.

Personally, I think Montana and North Dakota State should both move up to FBS. Those states should have an FBS presence. Idaho should move up, too.

[superman7515]

Idaho should move up, too.

Not sure if that was a joke about Idaho's play on the field or if you actually didn't know that Idaho already plays FBS football. If the latter, just goes to show how big of a move up it really is.

[Sader87]

The overall problem, if it's a problem really, is that there really isn't anywhere for NDSU, Montana and Montana St to go to.

Mountain West perhaps? I suppose, but it already has 12 membahs. No ther FBS conference really makes sense for those 3 schools geograhically/competative-wise.

Essentially it boils down to, do you want to be a big fish in a little pond or the reverse?

I think that "2nd-tier" of college football i.e. the non-P5 leagues/schools is the level most in trouble. Many of those schools are fah closer to the FCS-level than they are to most of the Power 5 programs in terms of on-field competition, support in terms of fans/media etc. etc. Will they continue to fund these programs with little "bang for the buck" going forward? And I do realize they would be in the same boat i.e. a money-drain at the FCS-level as well.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Before this year there was at least a slim pretense that FBS football meant "rubbing elbows" with the Michigan's, Notre Dame's, Auburn's, USC's in the world. Now, though, the P5 is separating themselves logistically and philosophically from the other FBS schools, sort-of stripping the pretense away. The big-time CFB media, too, has helped a lot by marginalizing the non-P5 schools as well, keeping them mostly out of the Top 25 conversation, CFP conversation, etc. Wannabe P5 talk is for Wednesdays and Thursdays when there's not much on: when Saturday rolls around, it's all P5, all the time.

FCS schools have a different decision to make now. Is FCS really so much different than lower-quadrant FBS football? Is there really any more of a voice and/or "seat at the table"? Does it really offer a lot more opportunity? Certainly at a bare minimum it seems like the benefits are shrinking, if indeed there were any at all. In the future there may be more benefits, I'm not sure. But if I'm an FCS school I'm not hurrying to find out.

[BucBisonAtLarge]

Yep, lots of book cooking going on here.

http://imgur.com/D8ypeKQ.jpg
http://imgur.com/kOkWmBt.jpg

I watched the Georgia Southern / App. State game on... something ESPN... and the announcers repeatedly raved about the game day atmosphere (on a Thursday). Yes, the Sun Belt is what it is, but GSU made it look good. They trounced Appy, and the game and crowd were entertaining. I would rather claim them as the best of the FCS, moving up, than dis the program. You take yourselves down as you trash talk.

[citdog]

I watched the Georgia Southern / App. State game on... something ESPN... and the announcers repeatedly raved about the game day atmosphere (on a Thursday). Yes, the Sun Belt is what it is, but GSU made it look good. They trounced Appy, and the game and crowd were entertaining. I would rather claim them as the best of the FCS, moving up, than dis the program. You take yourselves down as you trash talk.

You would think so. After listening to this bunch of hillbillies and south Georgia crackers for a decade bitch, whine, complain, and at the end LOSE you wouldn't feel that way. GOOD RIDDANCE.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Before this year there was at least a slim pretense that FBS football meant "rubbing elbows" with the Michigan's, Notre Dame's, Auburn's, USC's in the world. Now, though, the P5 is separating themselves logistically and philosophically from the other FBS schools, sort-of stripping the pretense away. The big-time CFB media, too, has helped a lot by marginalizing the non-P5 schools as well, keeping them mostly out of the Top 25 conversation, CFP conversation, etc. Wannabe P5 talk is for Wednesdays and Thursdays when there's not much on: when Saturday rolls around, it's all P5, all the time.

FCS schools have a different decision to make now. Is FCS really so much different than lower-quadrant FBS football? Is there really any more of a voice and/or "seat at the table"? Does it really offer a lot more opportunity? Certainly at a bare minimum it seems like the benefits are shrinking, if indeed there were any at all. In the future there may be more benefits, I'm not sure. But if I'm an FCS school I'm not hurrying to find out.

Yes, there is a huge difference in terms of payouts and TV coverage. The G5 leagues split over $70 million, so pretty much every G5 school got a better payout than any FCS school. You also cannot deny that when crappy bowl games take priority over major FCS playoff games on TV. I remember GSU and NDSU playing in the semifinals in 2011 and Temple and Wyoming were playing in the New Mexico Bowl.

Also, the G5 maintained its voting power with the autonomy proposal and the FCS lost power. The G5 gained the access bowl slot and still has it even though the FBS playoff is here. There also seems to be more G5s ranked in the top 25 of late than there used to be. If anything I think the AP voters are too quick to vote for teams like ECU, Marshall, Northern Illinois, Akron, etc.

I'm just not seeing the P5 separating itself from the G5 any more than they already have. The only fissure I see that's growing is the one between the FCS and FBS.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Yes, there is a huge difference in terms of payouts and TV coverage. The G5 leagues split over $70 million, so pretty much every G5 school got a better payout than any FCS school. You also cannot deny that when crappy bowl games take priority over major FCS playoff games on TV. I remember GSU and NDSU playing in the semifinals in 2011 and Temple and Wyoming were playing in the New Mexico Bowl.

Also, the G5 maintained its voting power with the autonomy proposal and the FCS lost power. The G5 gained the access bowl slot and still has it even though the FBS playoff is here. There also seems to be more G5s ranked in the top 25 of late than there used to be. If anything I think the AP voters are too quick to vote for teams like ECU, Marshall, Northern Illinois, Akron, etc.

I'm just not seeing the P5 separating itself from the G5 any more than they already have. The only fissure I see that's growing is the one between the FCS and FBS.

The "access bowl slot" is much different now that the top 4 P5 teams are headed to the plus-one playoff. A chance to meet the Big XII champ was a big deal. Playing a third-placed Ole Miss in a bowl? Not so much.

The TV and CFP payouts are not insignificant, but they don't represent a profit for the athletic department, either. It's much more likely that student fees will continue to be sky-high.

That's not to say that the status quo won't change in the future.

Critical to the non-P5 schools is any potential expansion to 8 teams in the CFP. If they get one spot into that, then there's something very significant to point at in the non-P5. That would be a game-changer and would suddenly make it much more attractive to move to non-P5.

But again, if I'm an FCS school, I'm not hurrying to find out. I don't see a window where the G5 will stop asking for members.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

The "access bowl slot" is much different now that the top 4 P5 teams are headed to the plus-one playoff. A chance to meet the Big XII champ was a big deal. Playing a third-placed Ole Miss in a bowl? Not so much.

The TV and CFP payouts are not insignificant, but they don't represent a profit for the athletic department, either. It's much more likely that student fees will continue to be sky-high.

That's not to say that the status quo won't change in the future.

Critical to the non-P5 schools is any potential expansion to 8 teams in the CFP. If they get one spot into that, then there's something very significant to point at in the non-P5. That would be a game-changer and would suddenly make it much more attractive to move to non-P5.

But again, if I'm an FCS school, I'm not hurrying to find out. I don't see a window where the G5 will stop asking for members.

How is the access bowl any different than it was before? There were 12 spots in BCS bowls before, correct? And the team in the access bowl wasn't really going up against the top 4 teams before, anyways.

[CrazyCat]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Buc72h7IEAE1hD5.jpg:large

[Twentysix]

Nevada, when they were known as Nevada-Reno.

They are still Nevada-Reno, just like Wisconsin-Madison, Minnesota-Twin Cities and California-Berkeley.

It is just more common to call them by the state name.

[SUPharmacist]

They are still Nevada-Reno, just like Wisconsin-Madison, Minnesota-Twin Cities and California-Berkeley.

It is just more common to call them by the state name.

I have no idea about Nevada, but Twin Cities and Madison are definitively Minnesota and Wisconsin respectively. Heck, when I was at NDSU I could talk about the 'U' and people new I meant University of Minnesota-Twin Cities. Now those are schools and programs that have competed at the top levels in athletics forever (not to say they have been competitive always), and also have been at top research levels for a long time. Schools that try that type of branding now are silly, but with adequate investment and decades those types of perceptions can change.

[superman7515]

Heck, when I was at NDSU I could talk about the 'U' and people new I meant University of Minnesota-Twin Cities.

There's only one "The U" and it sure as hell ain't in the arctic circle.

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451b26169e2014e87624d86970d-pi

[CHIP72]

Critical to the non-P5 schools is any potential expansion to 8 teams in the CFP. If they get one spot into that, then there's something very significant to point at in the non-P5. That would be a game-changer and would suddenly make it much more attractive to move to non-P5.

I think we'll see a shift from 4 teams to 8 teams in the Division I-A within 10 years, maybe within 5 years, not because of the non-P5 schools, but because not all P5 conferences will have a seat at the playoff table and there will be a season where a conference is shut out despite having what it perceives to be a worthy playoff team. If you go to 8 teams, every P5 conference can have an automatic bid to the playoffs.

[SUPharmacist]

There's only one "The U" and it sure as hell ain't in the arctic circle.

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451b26169e2014e87624d86970d-pi

Agreed, but you have regional nicknames as well. Just pointing out in the area it is a major school. Now it is not a major athletic power, and should not be compared to them outside of hockey and maybe wrestling. But, if someone said they went to Minnesota I would not ask if they enjoyed Crookston, or think a Wisconsin grad went to Lacrosse.

[JALMOND]

They are still Nevada-Reno, just like Wisconsin-Madison, Minnesota-Twin Cities and California-Berkeley.

It is just more common to call them by the state name.

If someone told me they were going to see Minnesota play this weekend, I would really not expect them to be going to Morris. Right now, if someone tells me they are going to watch Nevada play, I'm thinking they are going to Reno and not Las Vegas.

[CHIP72]

If someone told me they were going to see Minnesota play this weekend, I would really not expect them to be going to Morris. Right now, if someone tells me they are going to watch Nevada play, I'm thinking they are going to Reno and not Las Vegas.

If someone told me he/she was going to see Minnesota play this weekend, I'd say the Vikings will likely continue to struggle without Adrian Peterson.

[Twentysix]

If someone told me they were going to see Minnesota play this weekend, I would really not expect them to be going to Morris. Right now, if someone tells me they are going to watch Nevada play, I'm thinking they are going to Reno and not Las Vegas.

Like I said, it is just more common to call them by the State name, the flagship university in a university system almost always takes on the name of the state only. Look at how the schools identify themselves on their own webpages. Nevada-Reno never changed their name from when you had known them before.

http://www.unr.edu/

The University of Nevada, Reno.

http://www.wisc.edu/

The University of Wisconsin-Madison

http://www1.umn.edu/twincities/index.html

The University of Minnesota-Twin Cities

http://www.unl.edu/

The University of Nebraska-Lincoln


Nevada is just like California, UNLV isn't the flagship so it keeps the city name, just like Berkeley is Cal and UCLA is UCLA, because Berkeley is the flagship (even though both UC-Los Angeles and UC-Berkeley are some of the best schools in the entire world).

[Twentysix]

Agreed, but you have regional nicknames as well. Just pointing out in the area it is a major school. Now it is not a major athletic power, and should not be compared to them outside of hockey and maybe wrestling. But, if someone said they went to Minnesota I would not ask if they enjoyed Crookston, or think a Wisconsin grad went to Lacrosse.

I agree with both of you. There are regional names and national names. Context usually clarifies which one is being talked about.


I would guess USC means South Carolina in South Carolina (cit can probably clarify), but anywhere else in the USA it means Southern California, that university in the dumpy part of LA.

Similarily, SDSU means South Dakota State to anyone from ND/SD/MN/NE/IA or any FCS fan, and San Diego State to anyone else that follows sports. Context is key in these regional/national naming issues.

[bkrownd]

There's only one "The U" and it sure as hell ain't in the arctic circle.

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451b26169e2014e87624d86970d-pi

I went to the real "The U", and there sure as hell ain't coke residue on my degrees... ;)

[Sitting Bull]

Yes, there is a huge difference in terms of payouts and TV coverage. The G5 leagues split over $70 million, so pretty much every G5 school got a better payout than any FCS school. You also cannot deny that when crappy bowl games take priority over major FCS playoff games on TV. I remember GSU and NDSU playing in the semifinals in 2011 and Temple and Wyoming were playing in the New Mexico Bowl.

Also, the G5 maintained its voting power with the autonomy proposal and the FCS lost power. The G5 gained the access bowl slot and still has it even though the FBS playoff is here. There also seems to be more G5s ranked in the top 25 of late than there used to be. If anything I think the AP voters are too quick to vote for teams like ECU, Marshall, Northern Illinois, Akron, etc.

I'm just not seeing the P5 separating itself from the G5 any more than they already have. The only fissure I see that's growing is the one between the FCS and FBS.

As long as FCS schools can control their own costs and pick up a few trinkets along the way (some TV, an occasional money game), I think they are far better off overall in the long term. There is no arms race at FCS.

They can continue playing their games on Saturday, stay in leagues that make geographical sense with their longtime rivals and compete legitimately for a national championship.

All of the above are sacrificed by schools that move into the lower bowels of FBS.

[superman7515]

I went to the real "The U", and there sure as hell ain't coke residue on my degrees... ;)

I hope not, that ****'s expensive. Although in Miami in the 80's, not so much. You could trip and fall into a pile of it like leaves.

[IBleedYellow]

My preferences for FBS and NDSU continue to change and evolve depending upon the current state of the University and the current look of college football.

I now think the top FCS schools should be in a holding pattern, just waiting for the P5 to get away and do their own thing.

[2ram]

I think we'll see a shift from 4 teams to 8 teams in the Division I-A within 10 years, maybe within 5 years, not because of the non-P5 schools, but because not all P5 conferences will have a seat at the playoff table and there will be a season where a conference is shut out despite having what it perceives to be a worthy playoff team. If you go to 8 teams, every P5 conference can have an automatic bid to the playoffs.

i'd like to see that happen. i believe a big reason it wasn't instituted in this initial CFP was angst over the number of games that will have to be played. and 8 team playoff is just one more week in an already longer season. it will be interesting to see how this is solved for... 1 less regular season game?

[dgtw]

When I see Minnesota-Twin Cities, I think it is a school other than the Golden Gophers. Adding the city to the name makes them look small time. Just say Minnesota and there is less confusion.

[AshevilleApp2]

As long as FCS schools can control their own costs and pick up a few trinkets along the way (some TV, an occasional money game), I think they are far better off overall in the long term. There is no arms race at FCS.

They can continue playing their games on Saturday, stay in leagues that make geographical sense with their longtime rivals and compete legitimately for a national championship.

All of the above are sacrificed by schools that move into the lower bowels of FBS.



I agree with most of the points. But I can't agree that a Conference that stretches from North Carolina to Maine makes geographical sense, or encompasses longtime rivals.

[walliver]

I think we'll see a shift from 4 teams to 8 teams in the Division I-A within 10 years, maybe within 5 years, not because of the non-P5 schools, but because not all P5 conferences will have a seat at the playoff table and there will be a season where a conference is shut out despite having what it perceives to be a worthy playoff team. If you go to 8 teams, every P5 conference can have an automatic bid to the playoffs.

I actually think they will go to 6, not 8.

Six allows for each P5 conference to have a team with an open spot for Notre Dame, BYU, a second SEC team, and in rare instances a G5 team. Also, giving the two top teams a bye increases the probability of the best teams playing in later rounds.

[Laker]

When I see Minnesota-Twin Cities, I think it is a school other than the Golden Gophers. Adding the city to the name makes them look small time. Just say Minnesota and there is less confusion.

My hockey fanatic friend who went to UND had a maroon sweatshirt made with "UMTC" put on the front for that very reason............ he would grin every time someone asked him what it meant.

[bkrownd]

As long as FCS schools can control their own costs and pick up a few trinkets along the way (some TV, an occasional money game), I think they are far better off overall in the long term. There is no arms race at FCS.

They can continue playing their games on Saturday, stay in leagues that make geographical sense with their longtime rivals and compete legitimately for a national championship.


Has there ever been an "arms race" in the MAC? xeyebrowx IMO those guys have a nice stable regional conference going, and it's a sad statement about the current era of media-money driven football that such a thing isn't appreciated.

We watched the Yankee Conference disintegrate around us. Ended up looking out of conference for "rivals". The eventual CAA was a far-flung affair with revolving doors at both ends. I'm sure it seems more like home in Delmarvaland than it did up north. Who knows where this is all going, but it's a game of musical chairs right now. Hopefully we'll all find ourselves back in the same division/classification playing field in the end.

Anyhow, the whole thing is headed in the toilet one way or another unless a miracle occurs that sucks the twin cancers of television money and NFL taint out of D1 college football. (shakes fist at clouds with quivering lip)

[Sitting Bull]

Has there ever been an "arms race" in the MAC? xeyebrowx IMO those guys have a nice stable regional conference going, and it's a sad statement about the current era of media-money driven football that such a thing isn't appreciated.

We watched the Yankee Conference disintegrate around us. Ended up looking out of conference for "rivals". The eventual CAA was a far-flung affair with revolving doors at both ends. I'm sure it seems more like home in Delmarvaland than it did up north. Who knows where this is all going, but it's a game of musical chairs right now. Hopefully we'll all find ourselves back in the same division/classification playing field in the end.

Anyhow, the whole thing is headed in the toilet one way or another unless a miracle occurs that sucks the twin cancers of television money and NFL taint out of D1 college football. (shakes fist at clouds with quivering lip)

An arms race in the MAC? You tell me then why they agree to play half their November games on Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday nights. It's certainly not for their alumni or fans - and based on the cavernous, empty stadiums, it's not for the students either.

They do it for the ESPN money. And why do they covet that so much?

[Sitting Bull]

I agree with most of the points. But I can't agree that a Conference that stretches from North Carolina to Maine makes geographical sense, or encompasses longtime rivals.

Not sure how NC to Maine is that much different than Virginia to Alabama. The CAA is an eastern seaboard conference and above Virginia, the states are pretty small. You can drive Richmond to NY faster than Richmond to Atlanta.

You have good rivalries as well: W&M/Richmond, Villanova/Delaware, UNH/Maine, Stony Brook/UAlbany - and rivalries develop within this group as well. W&M's history with Delaware and Villanova stretches back 60 years and we are closer to these schools than we are to Charlotte. If your intent was to knock Elon, I think that will come in time. One of the reasons they joined was due to the large number of students coming from the Northeast.

Still, this is far different than Idaho playing Georgia Southern, ODU to UTEP or Northern Illinois playing UMass in Boston. These are asinine relationships.

[Hammerhead]

There is an arms race in FCS -- just look at the schools adding indoor practice facilities and renovating their stadiums. It's just not as bad as the P5 conferences that build luxurious meeting rooms and other amenities enjoyed by athletes.

[AshevilleApp2]

Not sure how NC to Maine is that much different than Virginia to Alabama. The CAA is an eastern seaboard conference and above Virginia, the states are pretty small. You can drive Richmond to NY faster than Richmond to Atlanta.

You have good rivalries as well: W&M/Richmond, Villanova/Delaware, UNH/Maine, Stony Brook/UAlbany - and rivalries develop within this group as well. W&M's history with Delaware and Villanova stretches back 60 years and we are closer to these schools than we are to Charlotte. If your intent was to knock Elon, I think that will come in time. One of the reasons they joined was due to the large number of students coming from the Northeast.

Still, this is far different than Idaho playing Georgia Southern, ODU to UTEP or Northern Illinois playing UMass in Boston. These are asinine relationships.

Not defending the Sun Belt or other conferences at all. Maryland and Rutgers in the Big 10 and Notre Dame and Louisville in the ACC makes no sense to me. And I'm not trying to knock Elon, they made the decision to move based on what they felt was best for their school. I thought they were a good fit for the SoCon when they entered, but others obviously disagreed.

But the CAA is a contrived conference as well. And when you point out the rivalries in the CAA, they are all of a more regional nature. W&M/Richmond (South), Villanova/Delaware (Mid-East), UNH/Maine (North). If your preference is a league that makes geographic sense, you're not in it.

[Engineer86]

I agree with most of the points. But I can't agree that a Conference that stretches from North Carolina to Maine makes geographical sense, or encompasses longtime rivals.

I agree. I see one big difference between FCS and FBS, in the east at least, being that you can easily travel to most away games for a FCS team, not so much for FBS teams.

The CAA is an exception.

[Sitting Bull]

Not defending the Sun Belt or other conferences at all. Maryland and Rutgers in the Big 10 and Notre Dame and Louisville in the ACC makes no sense to me. And I'm not trying to knock Elon, they made the decision to move based on what they felt was best for their school. I thought they were a good fit for the SoCon when they entered, but others obviously disagreed.

But the CAA is a contrived conference as well. And when you point out the rivalries in the CAA, they are all of a more regional nature. W&M/Richmond (South), Villanova/Delaware (Mid-East), UNH/Maine (North). If your preference is a league that makes geographic sense, you're not in it.

We just disagree then. Travel is just not an issue up the seaboard, Maine being the furthest outpost. W&M is on the southern fringe and yet you can still motor to any game except UNH and Maine. Basically, the CAA is a combo of the old Yankee and ECAC South and has been operating this way for near 30 years (Delaware and Richmond both joined the Yankee in the mid 80s). So merged (30 years ago) would be a more accurate description in my view than contrived. The Patriot or Pioneer may be better examples of a contrived conference.

Also it's worth noting that the southern fringe of the CAA (UR, W&M, JMU, Elon) all have substantial student populations and alumni based in the Northeast.

Bottom line, if the farthest point between two schools is Elon and Maine, I would bet that still puts the CAA within the top of the most geographically concentrated conferences in the country, FBS or FCS.

As you noted, there are a number of very traditional and intense rivalries within the CAA. That may not match every member but they really don't in any conference. Is Samford a bitter rival of VMI? Or Minnesota and Indiana? No. That said, they develop over time and a good example would be W&M/UNH in the CAA, today our 18th meeting and the series has featured many games among the two when both well ranked in FCS.

It works for W&M. We already have a core of four very solid rivalry match-ups within CAA football (UR, JMU, Delaware and Villanova) - these go back 50-100 years. In time I think Elon will be added to that list. A Towson rivalry hasn't really clicked as yet though they are one of our closest teammates.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Towson's lack of "clicking" with anyone is one of the deep mysteries of the CAA. Even now that they're good it seems hard for CAA teams to generate the hate, similar to how it was when Towson was a PL member.

[JALMOND]

I agree with most of the points. But I can't agree that a Conference that stretches from North Carolina to Maine makes geographical sense, or encompasses longtime rivals.

Or a conference that stretches from North Dakota to Portland. Or North Dakota to California. Really, North Dakota to anywhere in the Big Sky.

[bkrownd]

An arms race in the MAC? You tell me then why they agree to play half their November games on Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday nights. It's certainly not for their alumni or fans - and based on the cavernous, empty stadiums, it's not for the students either.

They do it for the ESPN money. And why do they covet that so much?

For the record I LOVE weeknight games. Always have. I also love mid-week games in lacrosse, played on campus and right in the middle of the class day so people drop in between classes.

[bkrownd]

Basically, the CAA is a combo of the old Yankee and ECAC South and has been operating this way for near 30 years (Delaware and Richmond both joined the Yankee in the mid 80s). So merged (30 years ago) would be a more accurate description in my view than contrived.

Well, that's the southern perspective. ;) My years on campus were the 1990's when it was still really the Yankee++. As Boston, Northeastern, Hofstra and Connecticut (splitters!!) left the Yankee part slowly withered and died. Ah, nostalgia...

[AshevilleApp2]

We just disagree then. Travel is just not an issue up the seaboard, Maine being the furthest outpost. W&M is on the southern fringe and yet you can still motor to any game except UNH and Maine. Basically, the CAA is a combo of the old Yankee and ECAC South and has been operating this way for near 30 years (Delaware and Richmond both joined the Yankee in the mid 80s). So merged (30 years ago) would be a more accurate description in my view than contrived. The Patriot or Pioneer may be better examples of a contrived conference.

Also it's worth noting that the southern fringe of the CAA (UR, W&M, JMU, Elon) all have substantial student populations and alumni based in the Northeast.

Bottom line, if the farthest point between two schools is Elon and Maine, I would bet that still puts the CAA within the top of the most geographically concentrated conferences in the country, FBS or FCS.

As you noted, there are a number of very traditional and intense rivalries within the CAA. That may not match every member but they really don't in any conference. Is Samford a bitter rival of VMI? Or Minnesota and Indiana? No. That said, they develop over time and a good example would be W&M/UNH in the CAA, today our 18th meeting and the series has featured many games among the two when both well ranked in FCS.

It works for W&M. We already have a core of four very solid rivalry match-ups within CAA football (UR, JMU, Delaware and Villanova) - these go back 50-100 years. In time I think Elon will be added to that list. A Towson rivalry hasn't really clicked as yet though they are one of our closest teammates.

Good post.

[AshevilleApp2]

Or a conference that stretches from North Dakota to Portland. Or North Dakota to California. Really, North Dakota to anywhere in the Big Sky.

Miles are different out west, they're more likely to be measured in beers!

[CHIP72]

i'd like to see that happen. i believe a big reason it wasn't instituted in this initial CFP was angst over the number of games that will have to be played. and 8 team playoff is just one more week in an already longer season. it will be interesting to see how this is solved for... 1 less regular season game?

IMO, the argument about the length of the season is a 100% BS argument meant to distract people from the scheduling Division I-A teams have been allowed to do over the last 15-20 years. If the season length was such an issue, they wouldn't have extended the season from 11 games to 12 games a number of years ago. They also wouldn't have allowed the bowls to proliferate (which means more teams are playing an extra game). A playoff only impacts a very small number of teams.

Let's be honest here - the reason why the people who run Division I-A football make the "too many games" argument is because they are in bed with the bowl games, particularly the long-established bowl games, and Division I-A football is afraid of change (and the major bowls are afraid of becoming irrelevant, or from my point of view even more irrelevant than they already are). Once the playoff system shows it can make more money for the Division I-A (especially P5/BCS conference) schools, the argument against too many games will suddenly not be heard too much anymore.

[Bisonoline]

IMO, the argument about the length of the season is a 100% BS argument meant to distract people from Division I-A teams have been allowed to do over the last 15-20 years. If the season length was such an issue, they wouldn't have extended the season from 11 games to 12 games a number of years ago. They also wouldn't have allowed the bowls to proliferate (which means more teams are playing an extra game). A playoff only impacts a very small number of teams.

Let's be honest here - the reason why the people who run Division I-A football make the "too many games" argument is because they are in bed with the bowl games, particularly the long-established bowl games, and Division I-A football is afraid of change (and the major bowls are afraid of becoming irrelevant, or from my point of view even more irrelevant than they already are). Once the playoff system shows it can make more money for the Division I-A (especially P5/BCS conference) schools, the argument against too many games will suddenly not be heard too much anymore.

You are spot on. All of the rhotoric about missing classes etc is BS. How many games do basketball players play 30+. Are they saying FCS players are smarter? As the Bison played what 15 games for the last 3 years.

[DFW HOYA]

The Patriot or Pioneer may be better examples of a contrived conference.


Not sure how the PL would be "contrived"--excepting Georgetown, every game is within a four hour drive.

The core of the PL is basically an amalgam of the three MAC schools (Lehigh, Lafayette, Bucknell) and the former I-A independents of Holy Cross and Colgate.

[Sitting Bull]

Contrived to me means manufactured or produced, similar to the Big East. The Patriot (Colonial League) was initiated as an offshoot of the Ivy in the mid 80s when they (the Ivy) was looking for OOC playmates. The Patriots development was an attempt to cluster a group of schools with similar mindsets into one conference. While Lehigh/Lafayette/Bucknell represented a traditional core, schools like W&M, Holy Cross and later, Davidson, were all thrown in with very little history, tradition or existing rivalries with the rest. W&M backed out in part because of the Ivy led restrictions and also from the urging of UR and JMU who wanted to build a regional association (the CAA). Davidson I believe backed out due to travel costs. Holy Cross remains though many of their fans and alumni still complain to this day the impact it has had on their sports program.

To my point on the CAA, the conference is more a merger between two neighboring, regionally built conferences, the Yankee and ECAC South.