7-4 teams in the playoffs

[liverquiver52]

With all this talk of possibly a couple of 7-4 teams getting in, why is Wofford not getting any consideration? They lost some early games because of a ridiculous amt of injuries but they are playing very well now. Two of their losses came to the SECs South Carolina and a slim defeat "AT" App. State. Shouldn't they at least be considered if they win out?

[BillLuc1982]

With all this talk of possibly a couple of 7-4 teams getting in, why is Wofford not getting any consideration? They lost some early games because of a ridiculous amt of injuries but they are playing very well now. Two of their losses came to the SECs South Carolina and a slim defeat "AT" App. State. Shouldn't they at least be considered if they win out?

A loss is a loss no matter how you put it. And it doesn't matter if it's home or away. The selection committee only looks at D-I wins. Even if you play a close game against a I-A school, the selection committee doesn't consider it. Yes, your ranking in the polls may improve, but when all is said and done, it's up to the selection committee.

YSU played a close one against a ranked Marshall in 2001 and finished 8-3 (2 wins were D-2, though). Other losses were to Northern Iowa in the UNIDome and Western Kentucky (close game against WKU). However, YSU missed the playoffs because of those rules.

Just being a realist here.

[liverquiver52]

I guess my question is would our 7-4 be equal or better than others with the same record?

[AppGuy04]

This is why Wofford won't be considered:

Performance against playoff caliber teams:

Sat, Sep 9 Coastal Carolina L 38-41
Sat, Sep 30 Furman L 21-35
Sat, Oct 14 at Appalachian State L 7-14

These teams are a combined 23-6

Wofford wins:

Sat, Sep 2 South Carolina State W 28-21
Sat, Oct 7 Citadel W 28-20
Sat, Oct 21 at Elon W 35-21
Sat, Oct 28 Western Carolina W 35-7
Sat, Nov 4 at Georgia Southern W 28-10

These teams are a combined 17-28

[BillLuc1982]

I guess my question is would our 7-4 be equal or better than others with the same record?

Even though Coastal is in the Big South, Coastal won the head-to-head so they would probably make it before Wofford. Most of your wins are not against ranked teams. A 7-4 Northern Iowa or A-10 school would get in before Wofford. Even San Diego would probably get considered since nobody has beaten them.

[griz&beer]

If any 7-4 team gets in it should be Portland State. One of those wins was against a 1 A team. New Mexico.

[dbackjon]

If any 7-4 team gets in it should be Portland State. One of those wins was against a 1 A team. New Mexico.\

Or Montana State, if they finish 7-4.

[BestOfBreed]

\

Or Montana State, if they finish 7-4.

Chadron State kills Montana State's at-large chances at 7-4.

[BillLuc1982]

I wonder if the selection committee gives special "negative treatment" to D-2 losses. Or is a loss a loss? If they don't consider UNI's loss to UND or Montana State's loss to Chadron State, then they may want to reconsider their selection tactics.

[Mr. C]

A loss is a loss no matter how you put it. And it doesn't matter if it's home or away. The selection committee only looks at D-I wins. Even if you play a close game against a I-A school, the selection committee doesn't consider it. Yes, your ranking in the polls may improve, but when all is said and done, it's up to the selection committee.

YSU played a close one against a ranked Marshall in 2001 and finished 8-3 (2 wins were D-2, though). Other losses were to Northern Iowa in the UNIDome and Western Kentucky (close game against WKU). However, YSU missed the playoffs because of those rules.

Just being a realist here.
Wrong on the committee not considering close games against I-As as having significance. From numerous conversations I've had with committee members, they do have a large influence. App State's performance at LSU last year was a major reason the Mountaineers grabbed the No. 2 seed with an 8-3 record. Committee members said so. The committee also hates non-Division-I games. You can get away with one on your schedule. Any more than that and you are in trouble (hence the reason I don't think San Diego and Charleston Southern have much hope of making the playoffs). Villanova was ranked No. 4 in the GPI one year and got left out of the playoffs as one of four co-champs in the A-10, largely because of a loss to Lock Haven. With that in mind, Montana State had better beat Montana, because that loss to Chadron State will be used against them to keep them out as an at-large. If any team knows that playing D-II games gets you punished in playoff consideration, it is Youngstown State. This year, a fairly strong performance against Penn State will help and only one game against a D-II won't hurt YSU too much. But the committee is going to try to find a reason to leave a 7-4 team (or 8-4 in the case of Eastern Illinois) on the sidelines.

[BillLuc1982]

Wrong on the committee not considering close games against I-As as having significance. From numerous conversations I've had with committee members, they do have a large influence. App State's performance at LSU last year was a major reason the Mountaineers grabbed the No. 2 seed with an 8-3 record. Committee members said so. The committee also hates non-Division-I games. You can get away with one on your schedule. Any more than that and you are in trouble (hence the reason I don't think San Diego and Charleston Southern have much hope of making the playoffs). Villanova was ranked No. 4 in the GPI one year and got left out of the playoffs as one of four co-champs in the A-10, largely because of a loss to Lock Haven. With that in mind, Montana State had better beat Montana, because that loss to Chadron State will be used against them to keep them out as an at-large. If any team knows that playing D-II games gets you punished in playoff consideration, it is Youngstown State. This year, a fairly strong performance against Penn State will help and only one game against a D-II won't hurt YSU too much. But the committee is going to try to find a reason to leave a 7-4 team (or 8-4 in the case of Eastern Illinois) on the sidelines.


During the 2001 selection show (the day after YSU hung with Byron Leftwich's Marshall Thundering Herd), the committee mentioned I-A games on the Selection Show. I was an equipment manager and watching it with the players. They explained their reasoning.

And as for the D2 schools, YSU's athletic director is wising up and not scheduling them as often. For 2007, Stony Brook is our easiest non-conference game. So that would be a miracle (no D2 games). For a warmup, how about scheduling a non-scholarship I-AA game? Only problem for YSU is that many of them are afraid to play YSU. :eek: :eek: :eek:

[Mr. C]

With all this talk of possibly a couple of 7-4 teams getting in, why is Wofford not getting any consideration? They lost some early games because of a ridiculous amt of injuries but they are playing very well now. Two of their losses came to the SECs South Carolina and a slim defeat "AT" App. State. Shouldn't they at least be considered if they win out?
There is little doubt in my mind that Wofford is solidly the No. 3 team in the SoCon right now. And if you replayed that game with Furman, I'm not sure the Terriers don't beat the Paladins. In SoCon play, Wofford gave top-ranked Appalachian State a tougher game than any other team (ASU's struggles at Georgia Southern were caused by four turnovers more than a quality opponent). But 7-4 is just enough to keep Wofford out of the playoffs. Another problem is Wofford lacks a signature win. The Terriers are close to being a playoff-caliber team, but come up just short. But I think Wofford will be a school to keep an eye on in 2007.

[Mr. C]

During the 2001 selection show (the day after YSU hung with Byron Leftwich's Marshall Thundering Herd), the committee mentioned I-A games on the Selection Show. I was an equipment manager and watching it with the players. They explained their reasoning.

And as for the D2 schools, YSU's athletic director is wising up and not scheduling them as often. For 2007, Stony Brook is our easiest non-conference game. So that would be a miracle (no D2 games). For a warmup, how about scheduling a non-scholarship I-AA game? Only problem for YSU is that many of them are afraid to play YSU. :eek: :eek: :eek:
What the committee chairman says on the selection show and the REAL reason for Woffing YSU were different. It was very clearly the D-II games in 2001. I can tell you there were a lot of nervous people around I-AA that night, watching YSU nearly beat Marshall.

[BillLuc1982]

What the committee chairman says on the selection show and the REAL reason for Woffing YSU were different. It was very clearly the D-II games in 2001. I can tell you there were a lot of nervous people around I-AA that night, watching YSU nearly beat Marshall.

I wasn't saying YSU got woofed because of losing to Marshall. Losing to Marshall by a hair didn't harm them at all. But it sure didn't HELP them. They also mentioned the REAL reason (the D-2 games vs. Lock Haven and Clarion). It's sad that Tressel scheduled those games because YSU could have gone all the way in 2001.

[OL FU]

Not to change the subject to scheduling D-II's but I wish Furman would stop. I used to be a big supporter of scheduling a D-II if you play a I-A. However, with the odds of beating a I-A slim, you have effectively scheduled two games that will not count as a win with respect to the playoffs.

The NCAA is doing the same thing to D-II schools that they did to I-AA schools before the change in the the games that counted as bowl qualifiers.

[dbackjon]

Not to change the subject to scheduling D-II's but I wish Furman would stop. I used to be a big supporter of scheduling a D-II if you play a I-A. However, with the odds of beating a I-A slim, you have effectively scheduled two games that will not count as a win with respect to the playoffs.

The NCAA is doing the same thing to D-II schools that they did to I-AA schools before the change in the the games that counted as bowl qualifiers.

The problems I have with the way the committee looks at D-II are:

1) A D-II team with 36 schollies is probably a tougher game than one against a I-AA team with little or no schollies

2) In the West, the options are very limited for non-conference HOME games. For NAU, we have four home conference games, and four road conference games. Combine that with a need for at least one I-A away game, and the options to get a fifth home game is VERY limited.

[OL FU]

The problems I have with the way the committee looks at D-II are:

1) A D-II team with 36 schollies is probably a tougher game than one against a I-AA team with little or no schollies

2) In the West, the options are very limited for non-conference HOME games. For NAU, we have four home conference games, and four road conference games. Combine that with a need for at least one I-A away game, and the options to get a fifth home game is VERY limited.

I agree, I am not sure what is the best way to handle.
If you play a I-A, one D-II counts? That doesn't really seem fair.
One D-II counts anyway? Incents us to go in search of and easy D-II

I am not sure how West Georgia (Furman's D-II opponent) is doing in D-II this year, but they were much tougher than Savannah St would have been. :nod:

[dbackjon]

I agree, I am not sure what is the best way to handle.
If you play a I-A, one D-II counts? That doesn't really seem fair.
One D-II counts anyway? Incents us to go in search of and easy D-II

I am not sure how West Georgia (Furman's D-II opponent) is doing in D-II this year, but they were much tougher than Savannah St would have been. :nod:

Maybe count ONE game if the D-II team has 24 schollies or more?

[BestOfBreed]

Maybe count ONE game if the D-II team has 24 schollies or more?

Personally, I wish the NCAA would require everybody to play one game down a division each year and count it toward the postseason. I-A's would have to play a I-AA and I-AA's would have to play a D-II. I doubt that it would work. I'm not even sure it's possible or that anyone would be willing to do it.

[shakdaddy3]

Maybe count ONE game if the D-II team has 24 schollies or more?
i agree... they should make a distinction of games counting not by DII vs. DI, rather by # of schollies...

[OL FU]

i agree... they should make a distinction of games counting not by DII vs. DI, rather by # of schollies...

But then beating San Diego in the playoffs would not count:eyebrow:



xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

[henfan]

Villanova was ranked No. 4 in the GPI one year and got left out of the playoffs as one of four co-champs in the A-10, largely because of a loss to Lock Haven.

FWIW, that loss was to former D-II power New Haven, not Lock Haven. Your point remains true, however.

[shakdaddy3]

But then beating San Diego in the playoffs would not count:eyebrow:



xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

that may be a joke, but i think there is truth in that... non-schollie teams are not even close to the level of full or half schollie teams IMO...

[nmatsen]

A loss is a loss no matter how you put it. And it doesn't matter if it's home or away. The selection committee only looks at D-I wins. Even if you play a close game against a I-A school, the selection committee doesn't consider it. Yes, your ranking in the polls may improve, but when all is said and done, it's up to the selection committee.

YSU played a close one against a ranked Marshall in 2001 and finished 8-3 (2 wins were D-2, though). Other losses were to Northern Iowa in the UNIDome and Western Kentucky (close game against WKU). However, YSU missed the playoffs because of those rules.

Just being a realist here.

What a game, YSU was #2 in the country when they walked into the UNI-Dome that day. They walked out a 35-7 loser:p :p

[OL FU]

that may be a joke, but i think there is truth in that... non-schollie teams are not even close to the level of full or half schollie teams IMO...

Sorry, I was born with the sarcasm gene. It is my mother's fault:nod:

[BillLuc1982]

What a game, YSU was #2 in the country when they walked into the UNI-Dome that day. They walked out a 35-7 loser:p :p

I think UNI would have given Ohio State a game in the UNIDome that year.

[redbirdtim]

The demand for I-AA non-con games is easy if you have connections or rivalries. However, it also benefits non-schollie teams like Drake that you pay them a decent amount to come play you.