Head injuries in the FCS (and possibly college football in general)

[bonarae]

Hmm... why only FCS schools were able to report data to Harvard and BU? But 1 in 27 reported potential concussions is very significant.

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/11631357/study-says-26-27-potential-concussions-unreported-college-football

[chattownmocs]

Then dont play. The world is a hazardous place. Sometimes you get "dinged."

[Go Green]

We will see how seriously Penn takes concussions.

Their defensive captain (and arguably best player) got a concussion last week against Villanova. Penn's student papers say that he hopes to play against Dartmouth tomorrow.

Could just be misdirection on the part of Penn's coaching staff to keep the Dartmouth offensive coordinators guessing. But we will see tomorrow.

[Green26]

Interesting study. I just skimmed it and found it to be more credible than i had anticipated. Will look at it more carefully later.

The 1 in 27 stat just doesn't seem credible to me, especially in this day and age. The discussion of potential head trauma from repeated low impact hits, like for o-lineman, was interesting. This made some sense to me. Had never thought much about that possibility.

One of the things that cuts down on reporting by players, is that the concussion protocols are so strict and long-term that many kids don't report what they view as minor issues. In many high schools, you are out of practice/games for 7 days after all symptoms have done away, including very minor symptoms, and often need a doctor's note to start the 7-day clock. My view is that the protocols are too conservative for the pretty minor "concussions".

Kids have also learned that when they take the baseline tests, they should intentionally miss some questions, so that the baseline is not too high.

At the high school level, my impression is that most kids who have noticeable symptoms are diagnosed with some level of concussion and are treated and held out for all or most of the length of the protocol. Never thought about whether high school o-lineman may have undetected symptoms or concussions. So, my impression comes more from the high impact hits.

I have no doubt that concussions are a big problem, and they were essentially ignored and mistreated for decades, at all levels of sports. I am glad that the issue has been known and important, and is being dealt with. However, I don't understand why I don't know of a single person I played with, nor have I heard of a single person I played with, who has long-term or developing problems with brain injuries from concussions. Maybe the lingering issues just haven't been detected or evidenced yet, or maybe I just haven't heard of the problems among my friends and teammates. I played 2 sports, including football, in college. I have had 5 kids play high school sports, including 3 in football, and 2 play college rugby. I played rugby until I was in my 50's. It would seem that I would have heard of some problems from all of these people I was associated by now. Or, maybe my lingering brain issues are so bad, that I just can't remember all of the brain injuries among my friends and associates. Ha.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I have no doubt that concussions are a big problem, and they were essentially ignored and mistreated for decades, at all levels of sports. I am glad that the issue has been known and important, and is being dealt with. However, I don't understand why I don't know of a single person I played with, nor have I heard of a single person I played with, who has long-term or developing problems with brain injuries from concussions. Maybe the lingering issues just haven't been detected or evidenced yet, or maybe I just haven't heard of the problems among my friends and teammates. I played 2 sports, including football, in college. I have had 5 kids play high school sports, including 3 in football, and 2 play college rugby. I played rugby until I was in my 50's. It would seem that I would have heard of some problems from all of these people I was associated by now. Or, maybe my lingering brain issues are so bad, that I just can't remember all of the brain injuries among my friends and associates. Ha.

Incredibly well put.

I often wonder, if football head injuries are an issue, wouldn't hockey have ten times the problems? Less head protection, more momentum skating on ice at incredibly high speeds, and not a single soft surface for your head to land against after any sort of contact.

[FormerPokeCenter]

Interesting study. I just skimmed it and found it to be more credible than i had anticipated. Will look at it more carefully later.

The 1 in 27 stat just doesn't seem credible to me, especially in this day and age. The discussion of potential head trauma from repeated low impact hits, like for o-lineman, was interesting. This made some sense to me. Had never thought much about that possibility.

One of the things that cuts down on reporting by players, is that the concussion protocols are so strict and long-term that many kids don't report what they view as minor issues. In many high schools, you are out of practice/games for 7 days after all symptoms have done away, including very minor symptoms, and often need a doctor's note to start the 7-day clock. My view is that the protocols are too conservative for the pretty minor "concussions".

Kids have also learned that when they take the baseline tests, they should intentionally miss some questions, so that the baseline is not too high.

At the high school level, my impression is that most kids who have noticeable symptoms are diagnosed with some level of concussion and are treated and held out for all or most of the length of the protocol. Never thought about whether high school o-lineman may have undetected symptoms or concussions. So, my impression comes more from the high impact hits.

I have no doubt that concussions are a big problem, and they were essentially ignored and mistreated for decades, at all levels of sports. I am glad that the issue has been known and important, and is being dealt with. However, I don't understand why I don't know of a single person I played with, nor have I heard of a single person I played with, who has long-term or developing problems with brain injuries from concussions. Maybe the lingering issues just haven't been detected or evidenced yet, or maybe I just haven't heard of the problems among my friends and teammates. I played 2 sports, including football, in college. I have had 5 kids play high school sports, including 3 in football, and 2 play college rugby. I played rugby until I was in my 50's. It would seem that I would have heard of some problems from all of these people I was associated by now. Or, maybe my lingering brain issues are so bad, that I just can't remember all of the brain injuries among my friends and associates. Ha.

I have a friend who's a Phd Psychologist who works in ATL who consults with both the Braves and the Falcons on concussions and previously consulted with the Panthers when she lived in Charlotte...

She says the players have figured out how to misrepresent their baseline testing so that they can get past screenings for minor concussions....

It pisses her off to no end, though....

[Green26]

Incredibly well put.

I often wonder, if football head injuries are an issue, wouldn't hockey have ten times the problems? Less head protection, more momentum skating on ice at incredibly high speeds, and not a single soft surface for your head to land against after any sort of contact.

Good point. And when did college hockey players start wearing helmets? 60's?

[Bisonoline]

Head injuries arent a big deal. Its just a big deal because the media says it is. Its news. (supposedly)

ANYBODY that plays this game and cries about getting a head injury should be kicked in the nut sack. There is a reason you wear a helmet you moron. They knew there was inherent dangers in playing this sport. All they are doing is looking for money.

[SUPharmacist]

Head injuries arent a big deal. Its just a big deal because the media says it is. Its news. (supposedly)

ANYBODY that plays this game and cries about getting a head injury should be kicked in the nut sack. There is a reason you wear a helmet you moron. They knew there was inherent dangers in playing this sport. All they are doing is looking for money.

Really, that is your take on this issue. Head injuries are real s#&$, why not study them properly so we can have gear that can protect people better. We can then ensure people have the proper info about how dangerous the sport may or may not be, so they can make an informed decision.

Aside from my whining about your statement, I was upset when I first saw a link for this on ESPN it singled out FCS football. Then I read the article, and FBS just refused to turn over data.

[Pard4Life]

Then dont play. The world is a hazardous place. Sometimes you get "dinged."

Yes, that's right. A fundamental problem in the sport has been discovered. F-it. Who cares...

[Bisonoline]

Really, that is your take on this issue. Head injuries are real s#&$, why not study them properly so we can have gear that can protect people better. We can then ensure people have the proper info about how dangerous the sport may or may not be, so they can make an informed decision.

Aside from my whining about your statement, I was upset when I first saw a link for this on ESPN it singled out FCS football. Then I read the article, and FBS just refused to turn over data.

Of course they are real. The thing is everyone who plays the game knows the risks. Proper info blah blah blah. You dont need to be a rocket scientist to know the game is dangerous.
When I played I went through 3 different improvements to the helmet padding design. 1 was a better type of foam rubber. 2 the suspension web system. 3 The current air pocket suspension system used today. I first used that system in 1971 and I dont see how they can improve on it.
Remember until you get older you are bullet proof, and the, it wont happen to me mentality until I get a few more season under my belt then I can retire. The thing is the problems arent as wide spread as the media is blowing it up to be. It makes news when a player like Mike Webster dies penniless on the street. If he wast penniless you never would have heard about it. Plus you now have all of the old players who didnt make the big money seeing an avenue for a check.

Do you really think if you ask a player if he knew about the effects of head trauma he was going to give up those multimillion dollar contracts? The older players played for the love of the game and I can bet they wouldnt have given up the game if you would have told them. I can tell you for a fact that I sure wouldnt have given up the game even with what I know now.

The players are bigger, stronger and faster. Put those 3 together in 1 player and you have 22 of them on the field at one time in a game that is already violent what do you think is going to happen?

[Bisonoline]

Interesting study. I just skimmed it and found it to be more credible than i had anticipated. Will look at it more carefully later.

The 1 in 27 stat just doesn't seem credible to me, especially in this day and age. The discussion of potential head trauma from repeated low impact hits, like for o-lineman, was interesting. This made some sense to me. Had never thought much about that possibility.

One of the things that cuts down on reporting by players, is that the concussion protocols are so strict and long-term that many kids don't report what they view as minor issues. In many high schools, you are out of practice/games for 7 days after all symptoms have done away, including very minor symptoms, and often need a doctor's note to start the 7-day clock. My view is that the protocols are too conservative for the pretty minor "concussions".

Kids have also learned that when they take the baseline tests, they should intentionally miss some questions, so that the baseline is not too high.

At the high school level, my impression is that most kids who have noticeable symptoms are diagnosed with some level of concussion and are treated and held out for all or most of the length of the protocol. Never thought about whether high school o-lineman may have undetected symptoms or concussions. So, my impression comes more from the high impact hits.

I have no doubt that concussions are a big problem, and they were essentially ignored and mistreated for decades, at all levels of sports. I am glad that the issue has been known and important, and is being dealt with. However, I don't understand why I don't know of a single person I played with, nor have I heard of a single person I played with, who has long-term or developing problems with brain injuries from concussions. Maybe the lingering issues just haven't been detected or evidenced yet, or maybe I just haven't heard of the problems among my friends and teammates. I played 2 sports, including football, in college. I have had 5 kids play high school sports, including 3 in football, and 2 play college rugby. I played rugby until I was in my 50's. It would seem that I would have heard of some problems from all of these people I was associated by now. Or, maybe my lingering brain issues are so bad, that I just can't remember all of the brain injuries among my friends and associates. Ha.



.
I am with you on this. Only guy I know who said he had a bad memory from playing was a guy looking for a check from the NFL.
Said he couldnt remember my name two years ago. Saw him this year and as if by magic he knows my name. LOL

[chattownmocs]

Yes, that's right. A fundamental problem in the sport has been discovered. F-it. Who cares...

There are problems with EVERYTHING. Almost nothing is perfect. Its just amazing that people who are smart, could be outraged with such a silly study. 1 in 27 cuncussions. Shocking and outrageous. Really? If this stat is true then clearly there really isn't much to these things called concussions. But now we get to hear about the one in 1000 guy who killed himself. Go ahead and tell us about this. Kind of like the "outbreak" of ebola in texas. One guy.

[clenz]

Head injuries arent a big deal. Its just a big deal because the media says it is. Its news. (supposedly)

ANYBODY that plays this game and cries about getting a head injury should be kicked in the nut sack. There is a reason you wear a helmet you moron. They knew there was inherent dangers in playing this sport. All they are doing is looking for money.
As someone who has suffered 5, diagnosed, concussions i bull ****.

Almost everything they've listed as a side effect is legit, and i have had or still have.

My memory short term memory is gone, that is saying "he'd lose his head if it wasn't attached" applies to me. I can remember things from before my first one nearly perfectly, but each time period after the next concussion gets fuzzier and fuzzier.

To play football, at even a semi high level, you have to be a little different in the head when it comes to violence. The issue concussions cause is the brain damage can trigger that part of your brain for no reason. I am not a violent person, a giant teddy bear really, but there are times that a switch just flips out of no where, and I'll just throw things out of anger during situations i have no reason to be that upset about.

Depression? That **** set in hard and quick after my first, and got worse with every one after. Thankfully i have a wife that understands, and is a nationally licensed metal health therapist, that had helped me greatly.

The **** that they are talking about dealing with.

Now, i don't regret a second of my playing time and wouldn't think of suing. The dangers weren't hidden from me, just never presented. I never missed a game/play due to a concussion. Had i known would i have sat? Maybe, but probably not.

Is it a money grab? Maybe to the extent that these guys wouldn't have changed anything and now feel victimized and when the nfl makes changes to be safer they complain.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[ngineer]

The study is important so people can make informed decision on whether to accept the risk. When I played back in the 60's and 70's there was no concern over the issue. You got 'your bell rung' and took some smelling salts. Trainer looked at your eyes and you sat for a bit, but then went right back in. In retrospect, now in my 60's , I sense I can relate my recent discectomy and vertebrae fusion and associated memory lapses to the 'rough and tumble' of football. I love the sport and loved playing it; but, seeing my current condition I am not disappointed my son chose to take karate and play lacrosse. Both involve "contact", and lacrosse has some risk of collision, but the percent chance is substantially less based upon the rules of the game. You cannot avoid collisions in football. It happens every play. Moreover, it is not just the contact with the head, but the 'whip' action to the neck that can also cause concussion with the coup contrecoup effect on the brain. People are always up in arms about information being withheld from the public and cover-up of known problems. This is an area where more information known about the concussion and its cause and effect should be welcome.

[ngineer]

As someone who has suffered 5, diagnosed, concussions i bull ****.

Almost everything they've listed as a side effect is legit, and i have had or still have.

My memory short term memory is gone, that is saying "he'd lose his head if it wasn't attached" applies to me. I can remember things from before my first one nearly perfectly, but each time period after the next concussion gets fuzzier and fuzzier.

To play football, at even a semi high level, you have to be a little different in the head when it comes to violence. The issue concussions cause is the brain damage can trigger that part of your brain for no reason. I am not a violent person, a giant teddy bear really, but there are times that a switch just flips out of no where, and I'll just throw things out of anger during situations i have no reason to be that upset about.

Depression? That **** set in hard and quick after my first, and got worse with every one after. Thankfully i have a wife that understands, and is a nationally licensed metal health therapist, that had helped me greatly.

The **** that they are talking about dealing with.

Now, i don't regret a second of my playing time and wouldn't think of suing. The dangers weren't hidden from me, just never presented. I never missed a game/play due to a concussion. Had i known would i have sat? Maybe, but probably not.

Is it a money grab? Maybe to the extent that these guys wouldn't have changed anything and now feel victimized and when the nfl makes changes to be safer they complain.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

From the gut and heart, Clenz. I didn't have as severe as you, but you are right on. I believe the game changed when they went to the hard shell helmet and face mask. Before then, players wouldn't think of "sticking their hat in there". You tackled with your shoulder. The face mask became a lever that snaps the head back when lifted upward. So we've sacrificed some broken noses and missing teeth for brain injuries. Not an even trade in my book.

[clenz]

I didn't even play that long ago, my last game was 2006 and it was "getting my bell rung". However, is something more than bell ringing when you are knocked out in a practice but your coaches have you back ivy practice 5 minutes later even though you can't see straight.

I was the one that lied and said i was okay, but i was told my bell was rung... Not that i was doing sever damage to my brain.


Then again, I'm the same guy that played through having both shoulders separated, a broken vertebrae, more knee and ankle injuries than i can count.

There is a reason at 26 i struggle to get out of bed and move the first 30 minutes I'm awake.

Like i said, though, I'm not sure i would have changed much if i could do it again. I would like to think i would knowing what i know, and feeling how i feel, now.

Even if knowing didn't change me playing it would have maybe forced my coaches, trainer, or patents to make me do something to take better care of myself.

If i ever have a son and he wants to play I'll let him. I will, however, make sure he knows what he is getting into and knows when to slow down.

Funny thing, i would bet i had 2 concussions during baseball in high school too... As a catcher i took a ton of foul tips to the head that "rung my bell"

Just as i know girls are at a higher risk of acl injuries due to biometrics and not always having proper training to minimize knee injuries with their athletic movements. So if my daughter wants to play a sport in going to make sure her chances of ending up with a body like mine doesn't happen.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[downbythebeach]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4foY1EtmKo

^ESPN story on Lasalle player with head injury

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Head injuries arent a big deal. Its just a big deal because the media says it is. Its news. (supposedly)

ANYBODY that plays this game and cries about getting a head injury should be kicked in the nut sack. There is a reason you wear a helmet you moron. They knew there was inherent dangers in playing this sport. All they are doing is looking for money.

Agreed, and I also believe the NFL is using this "safety issue" as a means to justify their stupid rule changes.

I quit watching the NFL 2 years ago so its only a guess on my part because Goodell is a lying scumbag.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Bottom line for me is simple, if a player wants to play he should be the one making the decision, not the NFL or NCAA, he also should lose his right to sue in the future because he know going in the sport is dangerous. Its the players life he should be able to make his own decisions, doctors or not. Its NOBODYS business but the players.

Im looking right at all you safety nazis when I say this.............women..listen up.

[BisonFan02]

I took a line drive off the "dome" when I was pitching and now it doesn't take much to "flip the switch" as I've had a couple concussions since that didn't take much.....ban baseball immediately. JFC....concussions are brutal, but they happen in many walks of life...car accidents? ban cars?

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120929004552/southpark/images/archive/8/88/20120929070658!Sarcastaball13.png

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

I know two chicks and one guy that got head injuries from a threeway...................(True Story)

[SUPharmacist]

I took a line drive off the "dome" when I was pitching and now it doesn't take much to "flip the switch" as I've had a couple concussions since that didn't take much.....ban baseball immediately. JFC....concussions are brutal, but they happen in many walks of life...car accidents? ban cars?



That ban football response in media has been the overblown issue. As far as letting individuals decide, if they are presented the risks up front great. I do disagree with letting the player decide if they want to go back into a game when they are clearly foggy from the incident.

[BisonFan02]

That ban football response in media has been the overblown issue. As far as letting individuals decide, if they are presented the risks up front great. I do disagree with letting the player decide if they want to go back into a game when they are clearly foggy from the incident.

If you are dense enough to not understand the risks of football...or any sport for that matter...please don't play.

[Bisonoline]

As someone who has suffered 5, diagnosed, concussions i bull ****.

Almost everything they've listed as a side effect is legit, and i have had or still have.

My memory short term memory is gone, that is saying "he'd lose his head if it wasn't attached" applies to me. I can remember things from before my first one nearly perfectly, but each time period after the next concussion gets fuzzier and fuzzier.

To play football, at even a semi high level, you have to be a little different in the head when it comes to violence. The issue concussions cause is the brain damage can trigger that part of your brain for no reason. I am not a violent person, a giant teddy bear really, but there are times that a switch just flips out of no where, and I'll just throw things out of anger during situations i have no reason to be that upset about.

Depression? That **** set in hard and quick after my first, and got worse with every one after. Thankfully i have a wife that understands, and is a nationally licensed metal health therapist, that had helped me greatly.

The **** that they are talking about dealing with.

Now, i don't regret a second of my playing time and wouldn't think of suing. The dangers weren't hidden from me, just never presented. I never missed a game/play due to a concussion. Had i known would i have sat? Maybe, but probably not.

Is it a money grab? Maybe to the extent that these guys wouldn't have changed anything and now feel victimized and when the nfl makes changes to be safer they complain.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

I should have worded my response better. When I said they werent a big deal my thoughts are---they arent as prevalent as the media is blowing it up to be.
During my playing days I can honestly say I was REALLY dinged may be 2-3 times. Slight dings that make you go---ouch that hurt may be 6. Physically I have had a fractured L5 in high school except for that I never had anything major during my playing days. Since then I have had both hips replaced, L4-L5 fusion and just had my rt knee scoped. But Im 62 so I think I am holding up rather well. Even though there are many aches and pains, I had a hell of a time getting them!

[Hammerhead]

Why not go back to the old rules where players had to play the entire quarter? That would favor smaller players over 320 lb linemen.

[hebmskebm]

I haven't seen too much "ban football outright" talk. I do see a lot of "I'm thinking twice about allowing my son to play football" talk. Long term, football is not going anywhere, but the demographics of who plays is going to change. Football is going to be seen more like how boxing/MMA is seen by the general public. The percentage of people in a stadium on a Saturday afternoon to watch a football game who played the game on an organized level will be akin to the percentage of fans in attendance at a prize fight who personally boxed competitively at some level.