East I-AA Realignment, URI and the NEC

[Lehigh Football Nation]

So I'm looking through an article about St. Vincent getting turned down from the NEC (http://pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/sports/s_344886.html), and I get a little bit of insight in regards to what the NEC is thinking in regards to possible expansion from its 11 team composition:


Iamarino said the presidents, apparently taking their cue from conference athletic directors who had met last month in Hershey, felt time is on their side regarding further expansion.

"The athletic directors expressed a feeling that with likely further realignment in the East in terms of conference affiliation, that may shake loose a potential member that would be particularly attractive," he said. "The feeling was to hold the 12th spot in case an attractive member becomes available."

Such attractiveness, Iamarino said, would be measured by such things as introducing the conference to a new market, potential television exposure, and fitting in with a push to increase attendance in both basketball and football.

"An established football program would be a big plus," he said.

Shouldn't this add fuel to the fire that URI is considering reclassification? It's the only realistic "established football program" that could be shaken loose by "realignment in the East" that I can think of. To a lesser extent you could also possibly have UNH or Maine join too, but you've got to think that they have URI in their sights.

[MR. CHICKEN]

RHODE ISLAND?

WHAT MARKET?
WHAT POTENTIAL TV?
FOOTBALL ATTENDANCE?

AH CAN BELIEVE DUH BASKETBALL REASONIN'!......................BRAWK!

:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused: :confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:

[GannonFan]

I wouldn't be shocked if URI was to move like this - their program is just dying up there and they get no support, either attendance-wise or financially. Peeople just don't follow URI football. Dropping to the NEC would save them a lot of money and they could actually be somewhat successful every now and then, while in the A-10 they are just falling farther and farther away from being able to compete for a conference title (last title was in 1985 before UD and Richmond joined (and JMU and nova and W&M and others later) - pretty much the start of the "modern" era for the conference).

[Husky Alum]

I think the NEC should be more concerned that Albany and Stony Brook bail on them from a football point of view. The most likely scenario is that Albany and SBU upgrade to go full scholy.

Then the America East would have UNH, Maine, Stony Brook and Albany as football playing members. Add in URI, and Central CT (remember, the AE only has 9 teams and is looking for a 10th), and BOOM, America East football.

Now, why UNH and Maine would voluntarily leave the CAA Football Conference is beyond me, but if they could have AE football and an auto bid, it's not inconceivable. With ODU adding football, if Mason and Ga State add football, the CAA may not need as many affiliate/associate members.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I think the NEC should be more concerned that Albany and Stony Brook bail on them from a football point of view. The most likely scenario is that Albany and SBU upgrade to go full scholy.

Then the America East would have UNH, Maine, Stony Brook and Albany as football playing members. Add in URI, and Central CT (remember, the AE only has 9 teams and is looking for a 10th), and BOOM, America East football.

Now, why UNH and Maine would voluntarily leave the CAA Football Conference is beyond me, but if they could have AE football and an auto bid, it's not inconceivable. With ODU adding football, if Mason and Ga State add football, the CAA may not need as many affiliate/associate members.

Very interesting stuff. What are the chances of a potential AE autobid though without the playoffs expanding? If you add the NEC to the autobid party (not inconceivable), you'd have 4 conferences in the east with autobids (AE, NEC, Patriot, CAA). If the Ivies ever consider the playoffs, they'd get an autobid for sure, and that would be 5!

Could the NEC be considering absorbing the MAAC at all? Unfortunately St. Peter's, Iona and LaSalle don't seem serious about I-AA membership, but Marist and Duquesne seem like they want to stay at the I-AA level. Marist and Duquesne to me have always seemed like good candidates for the Patriot League should they consider expanding - of course, only if Richmond or Villanova don't come-a-knocking first.

Should UA and SBU bolt, the NEC still would have 9 members - they would lose their 2 best teams, but there's still plenty of teams to keep a league together. It's the MAAC that seems like it's in its final throes, with most teams playing Assumption, Keane and a bunch of D-III schools you've never heard of. IMO Marist and Duquesne will be looking for a NEC, Pioneer, AE or Patriot to play in eventually.

[GannonFan]

Those MAAC teams have always been playing a weak, DIII schedule. They have no interest in playing IAA football beyond fulfilling the NCAA requirement that they need to call themselves IAA in order to have a DI b-ball program. That conference isn't going anywhere, unless the NCAA relaxes its rule and they can return to DIII. I don't know enough about Marist, but Dusquene has tried to schedule decent teams in the past and they could be a candidate from the non-schollies that wants to move into the mainstream of real IAA football - someone's got to tell them, though, that playing in the Patriot League still costs money - no matter how you phrase it, grant-in-aids end up costing as much as scholarships, semantics aside.

[bluehenbillk]

Don't count on the A-East sponsoring football. Why do you think UD, HU, TU & NU are now in the CAA?? The A-East turned down the football idea in the mid-90's so those schools led by UD, closed up shop & headed for the CAA.

[Husky Alum]

BHBK -

The AE will have a new commissioner - the AE commissioner who was in charge when AE football went bye bye with UD, etc. is gone, and the AD's at Hartford, Vermont and UNH are all different this time around. Keep in mind, the SUNY schools are going to be the power players in that league pretty darn soon. They're all much more aggressive about their athletic departments than the legacy AE schools. If the CAA gets its "own" football teams and can do its own league without affiliates, they may have AE football by default.

I'm not saying it's going to happen, it's just a scenario that is somewhat within the realm of possibility.

We both know the AE is not know for having foresight, so who knows what they will do, but don't underestimate the SUNY schools in that league.

[MR. CHICKEN]

DON'T THINK RHODEY'S ROUNDBALL SQUAD WANTS ANY PART O' DIS!........AWK! :nono:

[DFW HOYA]

Why all this doom and gloom on URI? For all its attendance problems, they still outdrew Northeastern, and was only 400 a game less than Towson. Meade Stadium has its problems, but they are planning a renovation project:

http://gorhody.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/040105aad.html

The NEC has no interest in adopting a D-III upstart like St. Vincent, even with football. But URI isn't in the mix either.

[ngineer]

A few years ago I would have though Lafayette may have been thinking in that direction; but, now, with what appears to be a rejuvenation, I doubt that would fly. URI's regional location and continual struggle in the 'bigger time' football arena certainly makes it suspect #1. Maine is too strong and proud of its football program to do a 'downgrade'.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

Maine is too strong and proud of its football program to do a 'downgrade'.

I'd like to think the same thing about UNH! Especially the pride part of the equation!!

Nobody else gets an autobid without increasing the playoff field.

I'm like BHBK, I have no faith in the AE to sponsor football. It will require a VERY different Commish and one heck of a job convincing BU, UVM, Hartford, Binghamton and UMBC that football was in the best interest of the league. Even if the 10th school is a football school, that's still only a 5-5 split. Maybe if three football schools were added to provide a 7-5 majority, then you might have a viable league (with a couple of affiliates). Personally, I'm not looking toward AE to provide UNH's football future.

[blukeys]

Personally, I'm not looking toward AE to provide UNH's football future.

God knows they've done nothing for UNH football in the past. ;) :) :)

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I'd like to think the same thing about UNH! Especially the pride part of the equation!!

Nobody else gets an autobid without increasing the playoff field.

I'm like BHBK, I have no faith in the AE to sponsor football. It will require a VERY different Commish and one heck of a job convincing BU, UVM, Hartford, Binghamton and UMBC that football was in the best interest of the league. Even if the 10th school is a football school, that's still only a 5-5 split. Maybe if three football schools were added to provide a 7-5 majority, then you might have a viable league (with a couple of affiliates). Personally, I'm not looking toward AE to provide UNH's football future.

I think an AE football conference has a much better chance of getting done than a new "Yankee Conference"-type football-only affiliation. If there's one thing that UNH, Maine, et. al. have learned from A-10 membership is that conference affiliations matter. Even last year the Great West, a "Yankee Conference"-type thing, was really hurt by lack of representation in the NCAA - you don't have a seat at the table for playoffs, or other football concerns.

Boston U. (1997) and U. of Vermont (1974) had football programs not that long ago - conceivably they could be restarted if the political will is there. The same situation that existed in BU to kill the program doesn't appear to be there today. But it may not be a function of the AE commish pushing for it. It could be schools like UNH and UM trying to push the ball forward on this.

How could it hurt the AE, though? Adding another sport that's a big revenue generator? It's not like the non-FB members would suffer. Basketball would continue to be the #1 concern of the league.

The other option would be the Atlantic 10 getting back into sponsoring football, but with A-10 teams being so scattered in Div. I-A, the Patriot League, the MAAC... plus with football being such a low priority for the current A-10 commish (she didn't even fight to keep the A-10 from the CAA takeover)... it just doesn't seem likely.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

Got to disagree LFN, the old Yankee Conference Football Conference was the last remains of the all sports conference of the six New England flagship state universities. And as you pointed out, even UVM played football. So, the entire conference played football until 1974. In the AE the majority of schools don't play football and only two currently play at the full scholarship level.

Now add in the history of the AEC and you have a conference that has never shown any inclination to support football nor understand its importance to many of its members. Looking in from afar, it might seem like a natural, but IMHO it will take a monumental effort by a new Commish as well as by Maine, UNH, Albany and Stony Brook. And then even if that is accomplished, you'd still need nine teams for a viable conference. And unless the playoffs expand, there won't be an auto-bid.

FWIW, I've already given our AD my :twocents: -- do what it takes to remain in the CAA for football.

[GannonFan]

An AE football conference would only exist if Maine and UNH, the only two New Enlgand schools still in the AE that are seriously committed to scholarship IAA football, choose to go that way. That along with Albany and Stoney Brook coming through on their desires to build their football programs. The Vermonts and Boston U's probably won't ever bring football back, at least not at the IAA level. No one's missed them having football since they dropped and really, there weren't all that many following the programs anyway, and that was with BU actually having some decent teams right up until they dropped. But currently, Maine and UNH are more than happy with the A10/CAA arrangement. With Northeastern and Hofstra being in the CAA fold for all sports, there may not be enough teams in the AE playing football to make a legit IAA conference anyway.

[blukeys]

How could it hurt the AE, though? Adding another sport that's a big revenue generator? It's not like the non-FB members would suffer. Basketball would continue to be the #1 concern of the league.


This is precisely the reason for not having an AE football league. The one lesson that should be learned from the A-10 sponsorship of football is that a conference that sees itself solely as a basketball conference will not lift a finger to promote football. The A-10 has an excellent football product to market and sell. The individual institutions have committed energy and resources to continually upgrade their competitiveness. Yet, from the conference that benefits from this product, Nothing. If the A-10 had shown any interest in promoting football the CAA would not have been able to step in. It remains to be seen if the CAA will do a better job for its football members but they cannot do any worse.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

An AE football conference would only exist if Maine and UNH, the only two New Enlgand schools still in the AE that are seriously committed to scholarship IAA football, choose to go that way. That along with Albany and Stoney Brook coming through on their desires to build their football programs. The Vermonts and Boston U's probably won't ever bring football back, at least not at the IAA level. No one's missed them having football since they dropped and really, there weren't all that many following the programs anyway, and that was with BU actually having some decent teams right up until they dropped. But currently, Maine and UNH are more than happy with the A10/CAA arrangement. With Northeastern and Hofstra being in the CAA fold for all sports, there may not be enough teams in the AE playing football to make a legit IAA conference anyway.

IMO though, the key is: does Maine, UNH, URI, and UMass want to be flying down to Georgia State for league games? Right now I 100% agree that the CAA arrangement benefits Maine, UNH, et. al. for now. But as ODU and maybe George Mason and Georgia State entering the CAA, something's got to give. There's no way the CAA will carry 15 football teams. Heck, already the CAA will be heavy with 13 in 2009.

I think the landscape for the AE has changed dramatically in 10 years. They've seen Delaware, Hofstra, and Northeastern bolt their conference for the CAA. They may see football as a way to boost their own brand rather than see good schools schools leaving the AE in droves. Furthermore, their rival now is not the unthreatening A-10 with top-flight basketball. It's now the CAA, an AE-level basketball league which has pilfered their best schools.

I think ultimately UMass, URI, Maine and UNH will not stay in the CAA as they add more teams. You add Albany and Stony Brook, and then all of a sudden you have enough teams for a 6-team league, and one with a great case for a playoff autobid. You also can't rule out Richmond or Villanova joining the party either.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

This is precisely the reason for not having an AE football league. The one lesson that should be learned from the A-10 sponsorship of football is that a conference that sees itself solely as a basketball conference will not lift a finger to promote football. The A-10 has an excellent football product to market and sell. The individual institutions have committed energy and resources to continually upgrade their competitiveness. Yet, from the conference that benefits from this product, Nothing. If the A-10 had shown any interest in promoting football the CAA would not have been able to step in. It remains to be seen if the CAA will do a better job for its football members but they cannot do any worse.

You bring up valid points. But the A-10 has a seat on the board. That can't be underestimated. Furthermore, the A-10 provided the framework for their institutions to thrive. I don't beleive that was the case when they were the Yankee Conference.

I agree with you that the AE would have to be committed to football to give them the resources to succeed and to have the cohones to represent them well in the NCAA meetings. But the mistakes of the A-10 commish's may not be repeated by a new commissioner in the AE.

[Kosty]

...plus with football being such a low priority for the current A-10 commish (she didn't even fight to keep the A-10 from the CAA takeover)... it just doesn't seem likely.

The A-10 commish is a joke. Linda did NOTHING to fight CAA on taking over the conference. She basically said in an article before it happened that it was enevitable. She's a total joke of a commish. She's a mess.

[JMU Duke Dog]

Obviously something will have to change unless everyone wants a 15 team football conference. A hypothetical alignment of this too large of a football conference could be as follows.

North Division
Delaware
Hofstra
Maine
Massachusetts
New Hampshire
Northeastern
Rhode Island
Villanova

South Division
George Mason
Georgia State
James Madison
Old Dominion
Richmond
Towson
William and Mary

This alignment would create an unbalance as the North Division would be historically the more competitive division as the South Division would have all the newcomers in George Mason, Georgia State, and Old Dominion. Comments welcome.

[blukeys]

This is more likely.

North Division
Hofstra
Maine
Massachusetts
New Hampshire
Northeastern
Rhode Island
Villanova

South Division
Delaware
George Mason
Georgia State
James Madison
Old Dominion
Richmond
Towson
William and Mary

I think it is a stretch to think that both GMU and GSU will be on the football band wagon anytime soon if at all. It seems the administration at GMU is not behind the football idea. The news from ODU was as welcome to the GMU administration as a skunk to a picnic.

ODU will not begin CAA competition till 2009. A lot of things can happen in the meantime.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

I think ultimately UMass, URI, Maine and UNH will not stay in the CAA as they add more teams. You add Albany and Stony Brook, and then all of a sudden you have enough teams for a 6-team league, and one with a great case for a playoff autobid. You also can't rule out Richmond or Villanova joining the party either.


If that was such a hot prospect, then why didn't the A-10 step up and protect their all sports members UMass, URI and Richmond while they still had the auto-bid???????

Nope, until I see something very tangible, then CAA Football is the best answer for UNH (JMHO). A few things I need to see before I'll even consider something other than CAA Football is best for UNH:


A plan publicized by Albany and Stony Brook for the upgrade and how they'll maintain Title IX compliance.
UMass gives up the ghost of going 1-A.
Richmond and Villanova would remain aligned with the New England-New York teams. IMO, very unlikely they would align with your AE Football Conference. Frankly, Villanova would probably be the last affiliate standing in the CAA due to their rivalry with Delaware and their associate membership for another sport.
The AE Administration gave any acknowledgement that football was important to its members.
Increase in the size of the playoff field.


I really wish that the AE could provide a home for the upgraded programs at Albany and Stony Brook, but they blew it a few years ago when they didn't sponsor football to keep Delaware and company from bolting. Today, not enough football schools and too many question marks among the schools listed.

Once again, there are no autobids available unless the tournament expands from 16 teams.

[mainejeff]

Northeastern to the CAA was the final stake in the coffin.....the CAA is the best option for all current A-10 Football members right now.

[blukeys]

If that was such a hot prospect, then why didn't the A-10 step up and protect their all sports members UMass, URI and Richmond while they still had the auto-bid???????.....

I really wish that the AE could provide a home for the upgraded programs at Albany and Stony Brook, but they blew it a few years ago when they didn't sponsor football to keep Delaware and company from bolting. Today, not enough football schools and too many question marks among the schools listed.

The AE had the opportunity of a lifetime and then kicked it away when it chose not to sponsor football. Delaware was content in it's rivalries and competition for all sports in the AE. Without a football possibility the AE became just another option no better than CAA or others.

The A-10 also had a great opportunity. The last year has demonstrated just how little the A-10 cares about football. With UMASS, URI and Richmond the A-10 certainly had the basis of putting together a package to keep the other affiliates together and could have had a respectable conference. Instead they did nothing. Which is exactly what the A-10 administration has been doing for football since they took over the Yankee Conference. :( :(