Greatest teams in I-AA history

[Montana_Mojo]

I'm new to this forum, so I thought I would renew this discussion even if it's been broached before.

[Montana_Mojo]

Scott Garner of I-AA.org wrote an article earlier in the offseason ranking his greatest I-AA teams of all time. I liked the formula he used, gauging a I-AA championship team's worth based on three year increments--how that team performed in the previous and following years to their championship season(s). However, there was quite a bit of Southern Conference bias in it, as Scott Garner is a GSU alum. So I thought I'd make my own list.

This is my ranking of all-time I-AA teams based on SINGLE SEASON accomplishments:

1. 1996 Marshall (Absolutely incredible team. Despite accusations of impropriety, that were never proven, this is the greatest I-AA team ever fielded)

2. 1999 Georgia Southern (Adrien Peterson was unstoppable. Super team.)

3. 1995 Montana (This team will never get enough credit. The Griz made the most dominating run in I-AA playoff history that season (outscoring playoff opponents 183-27), and beating mighty Marshall on its home field for the title. This team has every right to proclaim itself as the greatest single season I-AA playoff team of all time, yet they are discredited because they played a couple of Div. II teams during the regular season.)

4. 1994 Youngstown State (Tough call here. YSU fielded some great teams in the early '90s, but this one was the best.)

5. 2003 Delaware (Absolutely dominant from day one. There was never a doubt this team would take it all.)


These are my top five. Ga Southern had some incredible 80's teams and there are others worth mentioning. But that's it for now.

[D1B]

A great list for sure. As you noted, it left out mid/ late 80's Ga. Southern teams. Tracy Ham, IMO, was the best QB ever in 1AA and those teams were awfully good and came out of nowhere to dominate 1AA for over a decade. I would also mention the Western Kentucky team of 2002 - I'm not sure, but didn't they beat 2 or 3 #1 seeds?

Good list though.

[pete4256]

How could you leave the 1989 GSU team that went 15-0 off of your list? Tracy Ham was long gone by that point, so you don't even make an oblique reference to them.

[Kosty]

I would think the '98 UMass National Champs need to be considered among the best. The Whiplash offense was unreal and they put up some big numbers. On top of running out to a 21-7 lead to GSU in the finals, they put up 518 total points, averaged....AVERAGED 201 rushing yards per game and averaged 270 passing yards per game.

[GoGuins]

That '94 YSU team was dominant (14-0-1) eventhough they tied SFA in the first game of the year. Their defense was very quick and held opponents under 10 pts a game. IMO, the best YSU team in school history. They did have a couple of tight ones during the year and EKU in the ployoffs they won in the last minutes.

[GannonFan]

I would think the '98 UMass National Champs need to be considered among the best. The Whiplash offense was unreal and they put up some big numbers. On top of running out to a 21-7 lead to GSU in the finals, they put up 518 total points, averaged....AVERAGED 201 rushing yards per game and averaged 270 passing yards per game.

Not to knock UMass, the national title was quite commendable, but among the best ever? None of the teams being talked about in this thread lost as many games as UMass did (3), finished in conference as low as UMass did (finished 3rd in the A10 that year behind UConn and Richmond), or played as many close playoff games as UMass did (won by 2, 6, 10, and 12). The offense was good, but the defense was at best oppurtunistic - they gave up points and yards that year.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

You know who belongs in this list before 1998 UMass? Last year's JMU team. Lehigh played both of them and I felt that JMU's team was far stronger. JMU didn't win the division, but their 2 losses were to I-A West Va. and on a last-second FG to W&M. One stiff wind against W&M and JMU is 15-1 with only a loss to a BCS team. They may have even been nationally ranked at the time.

[GannonFan]

You know who belongs in this list before 1998 UMass? Last year's JMU team. Lehigh played both of them and I felt that JMU's team was far stronger. JMU didn't win the division, but their 2 losses were to I-A West Va. and on a last-second FG to W&M. One stiff wind against W&M and JMU is 15-1 with only a loss to a BCS team. They may have even been nationally ranked at the time.

Actually, JMU, W&M, and UD all shared the A10 title last year with 7-1 conference records (W&M beat JMU, JMU beat UD, UD beat W&M). The tiebreaker was for the auto-bid, not for the conference champion.

[Kosty]

Not to knock UMass, the national title was quite commendable, but among the best ever? None of the teams being talked about in this thread lost as many games as UMass did (3), finished in conference as low as UMass did (finished 3rd in the A10 that year behind UConn and Richmond), or played as many close playoff games as UMass did (won by 2, 6, 10, and 12). The offense was good, but the defense was at best oppurtunistic - they gave up points and yards that year.

They lost those 3 games by a total of 7 points.

They had a QB throw for almost 4,000 over 15 games. The RB, Shipp had over 3,000 all purpose yards over 14 games. They had two WRs go for over 1,000 all purpose yards (Jimmy Moore had almost 1,500 receiving and Zullo had 479 receiving and almost 700 yards on kickoff returns). The defensive had 41 sacks compared to having our QB sacked just 15 times. The defensive also had 17 INTs and 18 forced fumbles.

[GannonFan]

They lost those 3 games by a total of 7 points.

They had a QB throw for almost 4,000 over 15 games. The RB, Shipp had over 3,000 all purpose yards over 14 games. They had two WRs go for over 1,000 all purpose yards (Jimmy Moore had almost 1,500 receiving and Zullo had 479 receiving and almost 700 yards on kickoff returns). The defensive had 41 sacks compared to having our QB sacked just 15 times. The defensive also had 17 INTs and 18 forced fumbles.

Like I said, I'm not trying to knock it, but you're putting the '98 UMass team to be more than they were - they were a very good offensive team with a porous defense that got hot and lucky over 4 games in the playoffs to deservedly win the national title. Trying to put them in the pantheon of great IAA teams, though, just comes up short. First of all, some of your stats are in question - UMass gave up 39 sacks that year, not the 15 you say, and the same site (the official UMass site btw) shows the team having just 31 sacks, although the individual sacks add up to 41 (not sure how they count shared sacks so that may account for more individual sacks than total team sacks). And while the defense did create 40 turnovers during the year, the offense gave up the ball a lot too - 44 turnovers for UMass giving them a +/- of minus 4. And as I said, the defense was a sieve - they gave up 412 yards per game that year and a whopping 28.3 points per game. When was the last time an all-time great team, as you contend, give up close to 30 points per game and have such a bad turnover ratio and give up so many sacks?

By comparison, the 2003 UD team, which by these lists people don't even count as the best, although certainly one of the best, had these stats: a plus 19 turnover ratio (with the same 40 forced turnovers UMass had but with obviously a whole lot less offensive turnovers), UD had 41 sacks as a team and only gave up 25, UD's defense only gave up 303 yards per game (a whopping more than 100 less than UMass) and only gave up 15.4 pts per game (well below the 28.3 UMass gave up). And I think even more telling, with such a better defense, UD even scored more points per game (UD had 34.6 versus UMass's 34.5) than the offensively potent UMass team. Oh, and there's the silly matter of record and conference championship and so on. If the '98 UMass team, which I hold to was a deserved national champion, matches up so poorly against just one team on people's all time best list, I'd imagine they wouldn't do well against any of the other teams mentioned.

Here's the link I had to the official UMass site for the 1998 stats:
Umass Stats (http://umassathletics.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/archive/$teama.htm#TEAM.IND)

[th0m]

You know who belongs in this list before 1998 UMass? Last year's JMU team. Lehigh played both of them and I felt that JMU's team was far stronger. JMU didn't win the division, but their 2 losses were to I-A West Va. and on a last-second FG to W&M. One stiff wind against W&M and JMU is 15-1 with only a loss to a BCS team. They may have even been nationally ranked at the time.

We would have been 14-1, and yes, WVU was ranked #7 nationally at the time (Sept. 25th) we played them :)

[GrizzlyEdd]

Funny, I didn't see any SoCon bias... must be a Griz hater :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
.

Ralph, Ralph, Ralph.... it is time for you to make another trip to Missoula.;)
You need another Moose Drool....:D on me!!:nod:, it is the least I could do:o

[justballn21]

Let's not forget Holy Cross and its great undefeated seasons in the late 80-s early 90-s. Going undefeated back to abck seasons counts for something.

[DuckDuckGriz]

I think the `96 Griz deserve recognition....And IMO they were better than the `95 national title team. The only difference was Randy Moss wearing a Marshall jersey.

This team had to have been the one of the best in I-AA not to win a national title, and had one of the most dominating seasons in I-AA history. I have not seen a pass attack from the Griz or any other I-AA team that matched Brian Ah Yat, Joe Douglass & co of 1996.

Check out the `96 Griz:

Regular Season (avg. score = 41-17)

@ Oregon State W 35-14
Cal Poly SLO W 43-0
@ Sacramento State W 35-17
Southern Utah W 44-13
Idaho State W 43-19
@ Eastern Washington W 34-30
Northern Arizona W 48-32
@ Cal St. Northridge W 43-36
Portland State W 63-6
@ Weber State W 24-10
Montana State W 35-14

Playoffs (avg score = 54-8)

Nicholls State W 48-3
E Tenn State W 44-14
Troy State W 70-7

National Title Game -- Huntington, WV

@ Marshall L 29-49


1996 Montana highlights -- streaming video (http://web.montanagrizzlies.com/mtgriz/db/media/FMPro?-DB=Album.FP5&-lay=WEB&-Format=media_stream.htm&-error=not_found_stream.htm&RecordID_Linked=185&-sortfield=date_modified&-sortorder=descend&-sortfield=time_modified&-sortorder=descend&switch=ON&-Max=10&-find)

[WMTribe90]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lehigh Football Nation
You know who belongs in this list before 1998 UMass? Last year's JMU team. Lehigh played both of them and I felt that JMU's team was far stronger. JMU didn't win the division, but their 2 losses were to I-A West Va. and on a last-second FG to W&M. One stiff wind against W&M and JMU is 15-1 with only a loss to a BCS team. They may have even been nationally ranked at the time.



We would have been 14-1, and yes, WVU was ranked #7 nationally at the time (Sept. 25th) we played them

Not to nit-pick, but the game was tied when WM kicked the winning fieldgoal. The worst that could have happened was OT, where it would have been anybody's game. Actually, slight advantage to WM in OT because we had the stronger kicker. Please resume the topic of discussion.

[Go...gate]

Hard to overlook this squad in any discussion of 1-AA's best ever. No one came close to them that season, but they are often forgotten because Patriot League did not allow its teams to participate in the 1-AA playoffs at that time, a mistake which has since been rectified.

[TheValleyRaider]

5. 2003 Delaware (Absolutely dominant from day one. There was never a doubt this team would take it all.)

At the risk of incurring the wrath of the Hen fans, I'm not sure that's an accurate description of that team. They edged UNH, were beaten by Northeastern, and needed 3 OTs to beat UMass in the Tub. While in retrospect it's easy to say that of course their games in the A-10 would be close because the conference is so good, that wasn't the view at the time. McNeese was the undisputed No. 1, and people weren't even sure if UD would make it out of their first round matchup with SIU. Looking back at how they turned it up several notches during the postseason, I'd say they certainly deserve credit for being one of the greatest, but to say there was never a doubt would be incorrect.

[blukeys]

At the risk of incurring the wrath of the Hen fans, I'm not sure that's an accurate description of that team. They edged UNH, were beaten by Northeastern, and needed 3 OTs to beat UMass in the Tub. While in retrospect it's easy to say that of course their games in the A-10 would be close because the conference is so good, that wasn't the view at the time. McNeese was the undisputed No. 1, and people weren't even sure if UD would make it out of their first round matchup with SIU. Looking back at how they turned it up several notches during the postseason, I'd say they certainly deserve credit for being one of the greatest, but to say there was never a doubt would be incorrect.

No wrath here. I was tempted to reply as well. Then I assumed Mojo was referring to "day one" of the playoffs.

Delaware's season could be roughly divided into 3 parts. Some dominating performances in the beginning including impressive wins over a good Citadel team and W&M. A dropoff in the middle due in large part to injuries to key players and perhaps complacence. A recovery in the playoffs when key defenders returned and Andy Hall was actually able to practice.

Many of the Hen players attribute the "turning up several notches" to the return from injury of Mike Adams, the only member of the '03 team to play a down of Pro Football last year.

I also think that there were several A-10 teams that were better than the playoff teams I saw. (all 3 in Newark)
I have felt since 2000 that New Hampshire is a very underrated team every year. Last year they finally got to prove me right.

[McNeese75]

They lost those 3 games by a total of 7 points.

They had a QB throw for almost 4,000 over 15 games. The RB, Shipp had over 3,000 all purpose yards over 14 games. They had two WRs go for over 1,000 all purpose yards (Jimmy Moore had almost 1,500 receiving and Zullo had 479 receiving and almost 700 yards on kickoff returns). The defensive had 41 sacks compared to having our QB sacked just 15 times. The defensive also had 17 INTs and 18 forced fumbles.

No knock here to Umass either, BUT, I think that was a team of destiny, NOT one of the all time great ones. McNeese dropped several wide open TD passes against them that year that would have ended their season, BUT, Shipp did not play in that game either. No, woulda, shoulda, coulda here, Umass won the game and did a great job of it. I just never felt they were one of the greats. But they wear the ring so that speaks for itself. :)

[blukeys]

McNeese dropped several wide open TD passes against them that year that would have ended their season, ......... No, woulda, shoulda, coulda here, Umass won the game and did a great job of it. :)
Sort of reminds me of a certain 1997 McNeese-UD semifinal game where UD stops McNeese cold on a 4th and 1 and loses when a false start call backs McNeese 5 yards and allows the cowboys to kick the field goal. :eek: McNeese loses the next week (by 1) to a Youngstown team that I felt UD matched up very well with. Oh well there are a lot of stories similar to that in the playoffs.

[gtapp]

Best 1-AA team ever????

The 2005 Montana State Bobcats!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ChickenMan]

Sort of reminds me of a certain 1997 McNeese-UD semifinal game where UD stops McNeese cold on a 4th and 1 and loses when a false start call backs McNeese 5 yards and allows the cowboys to kick the field goal. :eek: McNeese loses the next week (by 1) to a Youngstown team that I felt UD matched up very well with. Oh well there are a lot of stories similar to that in the playoffs.


Yep... there are a lot of coulda... woulda... shoulda's.

[Ronbo]

Best 1-AA team ever????

The 2005 Montana State Bobcats!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Never know, each year could yield the best ever. I don't think the Griz will be this year, we still have a very young team. Next year we might be very, very good. Next year we'll have 16-17 starters back, plus both kickers and both returners. Even though we are young I still like our chances for a 8th straight BSC title in 2005. :D

[GannonFan]

Hard to overlook this squad in any discussion of 1-AA's best ever. No one came close to them that season, but they are often forgotten because Patriot League did not allow its teams to participate in the 1-AA playoffs at that time, a mistake which has since been rectified.

It's real hard to make a good read on those Holy Cross teams as to how good they were, especially versus the elite in IAA at the time. Here's the results from the 1987 Holy Cross team:

Holy Cross 34 Army (NY) 24
Holy Cross 40 Lafayette (PA)11
Holy Cross 63 Lehigh (PA) 6
Holy Cross 49 Colgate (NY) 7
Holy Cross 62 Dartmouth (NH) 23
Holy Cross 48 Bucknell (PA) 10
Holy Cross 41 Brown (RI) 0
Holy Cross 54 Massachusetts 10
Holy Cross 41 Harvard (MA) 6
Holy Cross 40 William & Mary (VA) 7
Holy Cross 39 Villanova (PA) 6

Of the teams on the list, UMass finished 3-8 in the Yankee that year and 6th out of 8 teams, W&M wasn't in the Yankee yet and was 5-6, nova wasn't in the Yankee either and was still transitioning into IAA after dropping football and wasn't even playing a full season schedule yet (only played 10 games and also played several DIII teams). The two best teams they played, Harvard and Brown, were the two best teams in the Ivy that year, but the Ivy was dreadful as even champion Harvard got destroyed by Patriot League middling Bucknell that year. And remember, this was during the time period when the Yankee was a bad playoff conference - it wasn't until the 90's when they started to have some sustained success in the playoffs. The late 80's of IAA football was dominated by the teams in the Southern Conference, or what would become the Southern Conference (GSU, Furman, App St, Marhsall) as well as the occasional teams from the Big Sky or Southland. Eastern IAA football was not very good at all during this era. Granted, maybe Holy Cross was the best of the bunch in the East, but that wasn't saying much for a region of the country that was abysmal in the playoffs - no team in the East won a playoff game against someone outside of the East stretching from URI's win over Akron in 1985 (URI was destroyed by Furman in the next round) until UD went to the natl semis in 1992. That's one long dry spell of bad football, and Holy Cross only played those types of teams during that time. Like I said, too hard to make a good read on them, especially not being in the playoffs.

[OL FU]

Hard to overlook this squad in any discussion of 1-AA's best ever. No one came close to them that season, but they are often forgotten because Patriot League did not allow its teams to participate in the 1-AA playoffs at that time, a mistake which has since been rectified.

They were truly a great team. I seem to recall they had one player who started on both offense and defense who received a lot of press and was very good. Unfortunately can not remember his name.

GannonFan's analysis is a good one. A more anecdotal analysis, Holy Cross was rated very high that year. I think maybe #2 which evoked more than a few chuckles down this way. Alas, we will never know.

[GannonFan]

Gordie Lockbaum played both ways for Holy Cross during that era.

[Go...gate]

HC and the rest of the PL were really hampered in those days by the playoff ban. :mad: Colgate went 7-4 that year, losing only to an improving 1-A Duke team coached by Steve Spurrier (41-6) , 11-0-1 , #2 1-A Syracuse (52-6), Lehigh (7-6) and #2 1-AA Holy Cross (49-7). They were definitely a play-off caliber team, beating 1-A Army, William & Mary, Boston University and and others.

FWIW, I'm in agreement on Delaware '03 being among the greatest, because Colgate had a hell of a team and they simply beat the daylights out of us.

[OL FU]

HC and the rest of the PL were really hampered in those days by the playoff ban. :mad: Colgate went 7-4 that year, losing only to an improving 1-A Duke team coached by Steve Spurrier (41-6) , 11-0-1 , #2 1-A Syracuse (52-6), Lehigh (7-6) and #2 1-AA Holy Cross (49-7). They were definitely a play-off caliber team, beating 1-A Army, William & Mary, Boston University and and others.

FWIW, I'm in agreement on Delaware '03 being among the greatest, because Colgate had a hell of a team and they simply beat the daylights out of us.

Yes and my comment was really more about the lack of opportunity for non playoff participating conferences to prove themselves. Fortunately, the PL is not longer in that category.

[GannonFan]

HC and the rest of the PL were really hampered in those days by the playoff ban. :mad: Colgate went 7-4 that year, losing only to an improving 1-A Duke team coached by Steve Spurrier (41-6) , 11-0-1 , #2 1-A Syracuse (52-6), Lehigh (7-6) and #2 1-AA Holy Cross (49-7). They were definitely a play-off caliber team, beating 1-A Army, William & Mary, Boston University and and others.

FWIW, I'm in agreement on Delaware '03 being among the greatest, because Colgate had a hell of a team and they simply beat the daylights out of us.

Like I said, though, besides the playoff ban the other major drawback against the '87 Holy Cross team was that they only played against the IAA in the East (of couse, without the playoffs they wouldn't play much outside the region anyway) and the mid to late '80's, in the IAA world, was heavily dominated by the Southern Conference (or teams that became the Southern Conference), and to a lesser extent the Southland and Big Sky conferences. UD had a playoff team lead by senior Rich Gannon in 1986, and he was easily one of the best single players to ever play at the IAA level. UD destroyed fellow Easterner W&M in the first round, and in easily the most impressive performance I've ever seen by an opponent at Delaware Stadium, Arkansas St blew the doors off of UD in the quarters (55-14) - it was like little children (UD) playing amongst men (Ark St). If UD didn't have Gannon they wouldn't have scored at all. And that Ark St team didn't even win the title that year. IAA is much more regionally balanced these days and you don't have regions that are as bad as the East was in the late 80's. As Holy Cross was a product of that weak region at that time, they'll always be somewhat suspect because of that.

[89Hen]

in easily the most impressive performance I've ever seen by an opponent at Delaware Stadium, Arkansas St blew the doors off of UD in the quarters (55-14) - it was like little children (UD) playing amongst men (Ark St). If UD didn't have Gannon they wouldn't have scored at all.
:nod: I list that as the worst game I've ever seen in Delaware Stadium. It was never close.

[pete4256]

:nod: I list that as the worst game I've ever seen in Delaware Stadium. It was never close.

That Arkansas State team was ranked in the top 25 that year, along with Nevada-Reno (I think).

Both of those teams met the same fate--a GSU squad--led by senior Tracy Ham--which pummeled them unmercifully. Final score in the '86 championship: 48-20. Yet the '86 Eagles squad has gotten love from neither Scott Garner (who was afraid of appearing biased) nor this board, despite averaging nearly 50 points a game in the playoffs and falling only to D-IA teams East Carolina and U. Florida.

[GannonFan]

That Arkansas State team was ranked in the top 25 that year, along with Nevada-Reno (I think).

Both of those teams met the same fate--a GSU squad--led by senior Tracy Ham--which pummeled them unmercifully. Final score in the '86 championship: 48-20. Yet the '86 Eagles squad has gotten love from neither Scott Garner (who was afraid of appearing biased) nor this board, despite averaging nearly 50 points a game in the playoffs and falling only to D-IA teams East Carolina and U. Florida.

Anybody being objective who saw the quality of the Ark St team, or any other one that lost to GSU that year, would certainly say that team was one of the better, if not the best GSU team. I saw a little of the championship game (probably the highlights) on TV and they beat up an Ark St team that had killed people on it's way to the title.

[Go...gate]

How about 1979 Delaware, with Scott Brunner at the controls? Didn't that team win the 1-AA that year, or were they still D-II?

[GannonFan]

How about 1979 Delaware, with Scott Brunner at the controls? Didn't that team win the 1-AA that year, or were they still D-II?

UD's last year at DII - may have been Youngstown's last year as well (UD beat them twice that year, including the DII finals). IAA was still quite fluid at that time and not everyone had made the jump from II to IAA so the two levels were actually very similar for the first couple of years. In 1978 UD beat the nova team that beat eventual runner-up UMass (UD was the DII runner-up that year after a 10-9 loss to E. Illinois) so there wasn't any real difference there, and in 1979 UD beat the Lehigh team that was the runner-up to EKU. Actually, the 1980 team was good as well in the first year in DIAA - they beat two 1A teams that year but got shut out of the playoffs (still only a 4 team playoff then). I wouldn't put them up as one of the great teams though, despite the DII label - the national title teams for UD in '71 and '72 were reportedly far superior to that '79 team.

[wkuhillhound]

A great list for sure. As you noted, it left out mid/ late 80's Ga. Southern teams. Tracy Ham, IMO, was the best QB ever in 1AA and those teams were awfully good and came out of nowhere to dominate 1AA for over a decade. I would also mention the Western Kentucky team of 2002 - I'm not sure, but didn't they beat 2 or 3 #1 seeds?

Good list though.

Western did beat the Top 3 seed that year but not in order and all on the road... they defeated #2 Western Ill, then beat #3 Georgia Southern, and then #1 McNeese State in Chattanooga!

[ChickenMan]

You probably have to go way back to 1946 to find the 'best' UD team. The '46 team was unbeaten and finished ranked #19 in the entire country.


1946 AP Polll


1 Notre Dame (IN)
2 Army (NY)
3 Georgia
4 UCLA
5 Illinois
6 Michigan
7 Tennessee
8 Louisiana St.
9 North Carolina
10 Rice (TX)
11 Georgia Tech
12 Yale (CT)
13 Pennsylvania
14 Oklahoma
15 Texas
16 Arkansas
17 Tulsa (OK)
18 North Carolina St.
19 Delaware
20 Indiana

[GannonFan]

Thanks Ralph, never saw that particular link - from the article it appears the final and largest major swing into IAA was 1982, when the bulk of the current members (scholarship schools) finally joined. Everything from 1978-1981 was still somewhat transitional as teams were coming into the classification.

[justballn21]

Gordie Lockbaum played both ways for Holy Cross during that era.

It's also important to note that Gordie Lockbaum was a legitimate heisman trophy candidate at the time. he finished 5th in voting in 1986, where Vinnie Testaverde took the trophy, and third in 1987, losing to Oakland Raider Tim Brown. This maybe adds a little cred to the 1987 Holy Cross Crusaders team. I'd like to think they were in the same position that Harvard was last year. A seemingly great team held down by the league and never able to really prove their true worth in the playoffs.

Also, it's important to note that three players from the 1987 Holy Cros Crusaders team earned first-team all-america honors on offense I-AA: Jeff Wiley, Gordie Lockbaum, and Ryan George, the most from any school on offense in 1987.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

It's also important to note that Gordie Lockbaum was a legitimate heisman trophy candidate at the time. he finished 5th in voting in 1986, where Vinnie Testaverde took the trophy, and third in 1987, losing to Oakland Raider Tim Brown. This maybe adds a little cred to the 1987 Holy Cross Crusaders team. I'd like to think they were in the same position that Harvard was last year. A seemingly great team held down by the league and never able to really prove their true worth in the playoffs.

Those HC teams in 1986 and 1987 really put the Patriot League on the map. HC basically had full scholarship teams those years as they were transitioning to the scholarship-free Patriot League. They were some great teams.

Hard to not give a nod to those teams when:

* their only loss in a 2-year span was to I-A Boston College
* they boasted 2 wins against I-A Army
* in 1987, they scored an average of over 45 points a game
* same year, they gave up on average 10 points a game

You can discount the PL league wins (I would, as Lehigh, Lafayette, Colgate, and Bucknell that year essentially fielded non-scholarship teams), but you can't dismiss so easily the Harvard and Brown lopsided wins (both solid Ivy teams that had decent talent) and the W&M, UMass wins against full scholly teams. I think the argument has merit.

Unfortunately, there were no playoffs for the PL, so we're left to speculate what could have been. Did they win the Lambert Cup both of those years?

[HensRock]

As a Div-II Independent, that 1979 UD team really played a hodge-podge and challenging schedule that year. In fact 7 of the 11 teams on the schedule were Div-I (4 in I-A and 3 in I-AA). Their only loss that year was to I-A Temple in Newark.

I-A: (3-1)
Temple Loss 31-14
@Villanova Win 21-20
William & Mary Win 40-0 (I think they were I-A then)
@Colgate Win 24-16

I-AA: (3-0)
@Rhode Island Win 34-14
Lehigh Win 21-14 (Lehigh was I-AA National runner-up)
Maine Win 31-14

Overall: 13-1, Div-II National Champion

Interesting note on the regular season game against Youngstown. Both teams went into that game ranked #1 in separate polls.

[justballn21]

Did they win the Lambert Cup both of those years?


That's a good question, I'm not sure I'll have to check school history notebooks we get haha.

[Go...gate]

I believe they did win the Lambert Cup in '86 and '87.

BTW, Delaware fans, you beat 4 1-A teams in '79 - Colgate was 1-A back then.

[HensRock]

I believe they did win the Lambert Cup in '86 and '87.

BTW, Delaware fans, you beat 4 1-A teams in '79 - Colgate was 1-A back then.
Played 4, beat 3. But thanks for the update. I'll edit the post!

[McNeese75]

Sort of reminds me of a certain 1997 McNeese-UD semifinal game where UD stops McNeese cold on a 4th and 1 and loses when a false start call backs McNeese 5 yards and allows the cowboys to kick the field goal. :eek: McNeese loses the next week (by 1) to a Youngstown team that I felt UD matched up very well with. Oh well there are a lot of stories similar to that in the playoffs.

This is true!! :bang: I guess it could be worse, We could NOT have any stories to tell :D

The actual difference in that Youngstown loss was another "dropped pass" in the endzone by the same tight end that caught the pass to maintain the drive agains the Hens the week before.

[blukeys]

This is true!! :bang: I guess it could be worse, We could NOT have any stories to tell :D

The actual difference in that Youngstown loss was another "dropped pass" in the endzone by the same tight end that caught the pass to maintain the drive agains the Hens the week before.
Darn!!! why couldn' that guy get Jackie Smith hands the week before! :(
Oh well if we didn't have the stories to tell I might be doing something useful like yard work or honey do house projects. Instead I am looking productive while spending time talking about 7 year old I-AA playoff games. I think I'll get another beer. ;) :D

[blukeys]

Played 4, beat 3. But thanks for the update. I'll edit the post!
The only UD team to beat 4 I-A teams in one season was the 1963 National Champions. One half of the teams they played were then listed D-I. They were Ohio University, Connecticut, Buffalo (actually a decent team back then don't confuse it with today's variety) and Rutgers. The ninth and final game of the season against Bucknell was cnacelled due to the assassination of JFK.

[ngineer]

You know who belongs in this list before 1998 UMass? Last year's JMU team. Lehigh played both of them and I felt that JMU's team was far stronger. JMU didn't win the division, but their 2 losses were to I-A West Va. and on a last-second FG to W&M. One stiff wind against W&M and JMU is 15-1 with only a loss to a BCS team. They may have even been nationally ranked at the time.

I agree (although JMU tied for the conference). The 1998 UMass team was very good, but (while not putting my alma mater down) they barely beat Lehigh at home in the first round, and the win over GSU wasn't so much UMass as it was GSU imploding with all the turnovers.
Delaware of 2003 was a juggernaut--hard to compare different eras. 1996 Marshall is probably in a class by itself, but after that you can order them in any way.

[ngineer]

UD's last year at DII - may have been Youngstown's last year as well (UD beat them twice that year, including the DII finals). IAA was still quite fluid at that time and not everyone had made the jump from II to IAA so the two levels were actually very similar for the first couple of years. In 1978 UD beat the nova team that beat eventual runner-up UMass (UD was the DII runner-up that year after a 10-9 loss to E. Illinois) so there wasn't any real difference there, and in 1979 UD beat the Lehigh team that was the runner-up to EKU. Actually, the 1980 team was good as well in the first year in DIAA - they beat two 1A teams that year but got shut out of the playoffs (still only a 4 team playoff then). I wouldn't put them up as one of the great teams though, despite the DII label - the national title teams for UD in '71 and '72 were reportedly far superior to that '79 team.

--probably because we got you back that year :D ;)

[umassfan]

I agree (although JMU tied for the conference). The 1998 UMass team was very good, but (while not putting my alma mater down) they barely beat Lehigh at home in the first round, and the win over GSU wasn't so much UMass as it was GSU imploding with all the turnovers.
Delaware of 2003 was a juggernaut--hard to compare different eras. 1996 Marshall is probably in a class by itself, but after that you can order them in any way.


So GSU just droped the ball that day? It had nothing to do with the D we ran against them? We ran through most of that playoffs with limited use of our great RB Marcel Shipp.

[GSUBass]

the fact that gsu put the ball on the ground 7 times or so, many of those times when we were about to score.


yeah, i'd say that is true. But hey, you got you're win. We took it out on you the next year.:)

[blukeys]

I wouldn't put them up as one of the great teams though, despite the DII label - the national title teams for UD in '71 and '72 were reportedly far superior to that '79 team.

I don't necessarily agree with that. I saw all those teams and the '79 team was more explosive than the other 2. I also think that the '74 and '82 runner up teams are neglected because they didn't win a NC but they were also great teams.

The '82 team beat Western Kentucky 31-0, W&M 62-21, and Louisiana Tech 17-0 before losing to EKU 17-14. The difference in the championship game was due in large part to a blocked field goal attempt that EKU ran back for a touchdown.

The '74 team beat some great competition Akron, The Citadel 48-12, McNeese State 29-24, Villanova 49-7 Youngstown 35-14 Nevada-Las Vegas 49-11
Their one regular season loss to Temple 21-17 was attended by almost 40,000 fans. None of these 40,000 saw the illegal procedure call that called back a Hen Touchdown in the 2nd half which resulted in the difference in the game.
They lost in the championship to a Central Michigan team that went I-A the next year sort of like Marshall. The '74 team went into the title game more banged up then any other Hen playoff team. The stories about Nevada Las Vegas cheap shots the week before were true.

[kats89]

I think it would be hard to argue against those Marshall teams.

[McNeese75]

I don't necessarily agree with that. I saw all those teams and the '79 team was more explosive than the other 2. I also think that the '74 and '82 runner up teams are neglected because they didn't win a NC but they were also great teams.

The '82 team beat Western Kentucky 31-0, W&M 62-21, and Louisiana Tech 17-0 before losing to EKU 17-14. The difference in the championship game was due in large part to a blocked field goal attempt that EKU ran back for a touchdown.

The '74 team beat some great competition Akron, The Citadel 48-12, McNeese State 29-24, Villanova 49-7 Youngstown 35-14 Nevada-Las Vegas 49-11
Their one regular season loss to Temple 21-17 was attended by almost 40,000 fans. None of these 40,000 saw the illegal procedure call that called back a Hen Touchdown in the 2nd half which resulted in the difference in the game.
They lost in the championship to a Central Michigan team that went I-A the next year sort of like Marshall. The '74 team went into the title game more banged up then any other Hen playoff team. The stories about Nevada Las Vegas cheap shots the week before were true.

I can still remember listening to the 74 game on the radio and the frustration of the loss :bang:

[JohnStOnge]

Anybody being objective who saw the quality of the Ark St team, or any other one that lost to GSU that year, would certainly say that team was one of the better, if not the best GSU team. I saw a little of the championship game (probably the highlights) on TV and they beat up an Ark St team that had killed people on it's way to the title.

I was living on St. Simons Island Georgia at the time. Arkansas State had played head up with two reasonably solid SEC teams...finishing in a 10-10 tie with an Ole Miss squad that finished the regular season 7-3-1 (4-2 in the SEC including a win over 9-3 LSU) then went on to beat Texas Tech in the Independence Bowl and hanging in pretty well for a 24-9 loss at 6-5 Mississippi State.

Being a Southland fan, I was telling everyone that Georgia Southern was fixin' to get a rude awakening. And I meant it. That 10-10 tie with Ole Miss is arguably the most impressive performance by a I-AA ever against a I-A because the Rebs were really good that year. I thought a team that could tie that Ole Miss squad would be way too much for anybody else in I-AA.

Well...we all know it didn't work out that way. That was SOME Georgia Southern team. And I think Tracey Ham was the most dominant I-AA player ever. I know there have been a lot of great ones but I can't think of any player I'd rather have on my team if I could only take one. Plus I'd say that regardless of the offense my team was going to run. The guy could've dominated in any offense, I think, as long as they let him make the decision to run the ball if he judged it'd be advantageous to do it.

[Go...gate]

Delaware had a fine team that year; I saw the '82 Quarterfinal at Delaware Stadium (a warm, muddy December day) and you beat one of Colgate's better teams, 20-13 in a heartbreaker for Colgate (our first year in 1-AA).

[pete4256]

So GSU just droped the ball that day? It had nothing to do with the D we ran against them? We ran through most of that playoffs with limited use of our great RB Marcel Shipp.


Well, considering that GSU rushed for 457 yards, totalling 595 yards of offense, then it WASN'T the D that UMAss ran against us. If our D hadn't folded in the second half and let Shipp run wild, the 7 turnovers might not have done us in. That's right, all of you who missed it: 7 turnovers.

[blukeys]

I can still remember listening to the 74 game on the radio and the frustration of the loss :bang:
I was at that game and had quite a few friends on that team. UD made some adjustments offensively at half time and then turned loose Nate Beasley who ran all over the Cowboys in the second half. Of course payback came in 1997.

[JohnStOnge]

Ok Blue...it's true that Delaware did better running the football in the second half in that 1974 game with McNeese. BUT...and if you saw it and remember it well you know what I'm talking about...there's probably no way they could've come all the way back if McNeese's quarterback hadn't had that problem of carrying the ball like it was a loaf of bread. His fumbles played a huge role in giving the Hens a chance to win.

But...if I had to choose which game I'd rather come out on the long end of in terms of breaks...I'd pick the 97 game and McNeese did come out on the long end in that one.

I never did see the whole game. I listened on the radio. The only reason I know how the QB was carrying the football when he fumbled is that it was kind of a rare case where this ABC highlight show included a DII game McNeese at Delaware. I really liked that QB but he did do that...when he started running around with the ball he often not only didn't protect the football but he downright invited people to knock it loose.

[blukeys]

UD played better on both sides of the ball after the half. In the first half, out of repect for McNeese's speed the coaching staff instructed the O line to cut block the McNeese defenders instead of using regular blocking techniques. this did not work at all and the half time score showed it. The coaching staff switched back to the regular blocking schemes in the 2nd half.

After the 1st score the momentum shift was incredible and what had worked for McNeese in 1st half was not working in the second. The QB (I think his name was Tate or was it the coach's name?) was not the only one who fumbled. There was another turnover by a back. The key to the turnovers was that there was finally some pressure and hitting applied by the defense. In the 1st half the McNeese QB was not touched.

It would have been tough to listen to the game and get the feel for the game . The shift in momentum and the posture of the players on both teams was really noticeable and the crowd picked up on it which only fed the UD players more. It was a great game to see and probably propelled that team to achieve what they did.

[D1B]

Well...we all know it didn't work out that way. That was SOME Georgia Southern team. And I think Tracey Ham was the most dominant I-AA player ever. I know there have been a lot of great ones but I can't think of any player I'd rather have on my team if I could only take one. Plus I'd say that regardless of the offense my team was going to run. The guy could've dominated in any offense, I think, as long as they let him make the decision to run the ball if he judged it'd be advantageous to do it.

I played against Tracy Ham in the 1985 semis. I was a defensive end. Ham smoked us. He was a very good passer too. Ham was such a pain in the ass I took every opportunity to crush him and he just got right up and did his thing. There was one particular aspect of the GSU team that some overlook - Their receivers were excellent downfield blockers. Once Ham, the fullback, or tailback broke through the line, they were gone. Our corners, and safetys were trying to get off blocks. Great team. Five more minutes and we would have won. Our offense steamrolled their D. Came down to whoever had the ball last.

[Pantherpower]

To date UNI-Georgia Southern was the greatest and most heartbreaking game I have watched in the UNI-Dome. Tracy Ham was special. Even as a young punk I remember that.

[soweagle]

I played against Tracy Ham in the 1985 semis. I was a defensive end. Ham smoked us. He was a very good passer too. Ham was such a pain in the ass I took every opportunity to crush him and he just got right up and did his thing. There was one particular aspect of the GSU team that some overlook - Their receivers were excellent downfield blockers. Once Ham, the fullback, or tailback broke through the line, they were gone. Our corners, and safetys were trying to get off blocks. Great team. Five more minutes and we would have won. Our offense steamrolled their D. Came down to whoever had the ball last.

The GSU defense during that time was weak. We had to outscore everyone, which was ironic considering Erk made a name for himself as UGA's defensive coord.

[WYOBISONMAN]

I would have to cast my vote for GSU. Over the history of DI-AA ball no school has shown the dominance that Georgia Southern has demonstrated. What a program!

[ngineer]

Delaware had a fine team that year; I saw the '82 Quarterfinal at Delaware Stadium (a warm, muddy December day) and you beat one of Colgate's better teams, 20-13 in a heartbreaker for Colgate (our first year in 1-AA).

One of the greatest games I've watched was the 1982 Delaware/Lehigh game at old Taylor Stadium. Lehigh lead 19-14 and UD around the LU 20 threw an incomplete pass on third down and everyone thought the clock expired, but the officials put one second back on the clock and the Hens got one last shot and scored. I can still see that pass floating down into the hands of the Delaware receiver below me from the upper deck--it was like slow motion. The cornerback got turned and immediately you could see what the aftermath was going to be but were helpless to stop it. Final 20-19.

[ngineer]

So GSU just droped the ball that day? It had nothing to do with the D we ran against them? We ran through most of that playoffs with limited use of our great RB Marcel Shipp.

If I recall, and I'm sure alot of Eagles here on the board may have the stats, GSU moved pretty easily up and down the field that day--well over 500 yards of offense, but kept dropping and fumbling the ball. I'm not denigrating Shipp or the UMass team--I was cheering for them, obviously, since we came so close a few weeks earlier, but I wouldn't place them in 'pantheon' of I-AA teams.

[blueballs]

I watched the 1998 championship game on a rainy day a few months ago. Umass defeated GSU and was the deserving champion. GSU has 6 turnovers that day and still managed to hang over 40 on UMass. Some of the turnovers were forced, many weren't. GSU rallied in the third quarter to w/in a score and seemed to have the momentum but couldn't stop UMass and committed a turnover that led to another UMass score. UMass also ran through the middle of the GSU defense unimpeded and along with the turnovers was the difference. Seems like Marcel Shipp set the championship game record for rushing that day, only to see it fall the next year to Peterson.

I'll go to my grave believing that GSU was a stronger team but UMass made the plays when they needed to, and that's what wins championships. If not for that first 25 minutes of the title game that 14-1-0 1998 GSU team would be in the discussion of the best 1-AA squads ever. What they did in 1999 only affirmed it.

Umass and GSU met again in the second round the next year (1999) and we who were lucky enough to be there witnessed perhaps the greatest single game performance in 1-AA history by Adrian Peterson, who shredded the defending champs for 333 yards rushing, 5 TD's, and a 2 point conversion. He also knocked UMass' best LB, Kole Ayi, out of the game by running him over in the third quarter. Just an incredible display...

BTW, Peterson had over 800 yards rushing in the 1999 playoffs. :eek:

[pete4256]

I posted the GSU stats on the previous page.


AP had 900 yards in the 99 playoffs. That UMass game in the quarters was indeed the best individual effort I've ever seen in person. AP had to lay down in the huddle between plays because he had a chest cold and couldn't breathe. The play that Ayi went out was a 15 yard TD run by Peterson. When he crossed the goal line, there were 3 UMass DL and LBs down around the line of scrimmage where he'd left them. IF you ever see the highlights of that game, there's one long TD run I still can't believe.

Mark Whipple said coming into the game that, in his opinion, Greg Hill was the best player in I-AA and that he was going to try to stop him first (Hill had rushed for 228 yards in the championship game, despite his turnovers). I think he made a mistake.

[GannonFan]

I actually think the 1999 UMass team was better than the 1998 team, even though the '98 team won a national title. The 1999 team didn't sneak up on anyone being the defending champs, they had a much better defense (the '98 version was a sieve), and they hung around with GSU. AP's performance in that game was impressive as the UMass defense, while not dominant, was surely eons better than what they put on the field the year before.

[eaglefan452]

I wouldn't say that the UMASS defense in that '99 game against GSU was impressive at all. Anytime you give up over 300 yards on the ground and 5 touchdowns to a single player it isn't exacly a great day for your defense.

[GannonFan]

I wouldn't say that the UMASS defense in that '99 game against GSU was impressive at all. Anytime you give up over 300 yards on the ground and 5 touchdowns to a single player it isn't exacly a great day for your defense.

Well, they were decent up to that point - they weren't a great defense, but gave up less than 20 pts a game, about 150 yards of rushing per game, and only a little over 300 yards per game (maybe 330 something) - not a great defense, but still infinitely better than the sieve that was the 1998 defense. And hey, UMass only gave up 38 points to GSU - much better than what other teams did against GSU in the playoffs (NAU gave up 72 and YSU, in the title game, gave up 59).

[eaglefan452]

Maybe they were better up to that point than in '98, and YSU gave up 59 to GSU in the championship, they scored 24.

[GannonFan]

Fixed the score in my prior post - had the right number but I didn't check - my bad.

[Go...gate]

Hard to overlook this squad in any discussion of 1-AA's best ever. No one came close to them that season, but they are often forgotten because Patriot League did not allow its teams to participate in the 1-AA playoffs at that time, a mistake which has since been rectified.

Just a reminder to our Holy Cross brethren that the ghosts of greatness past will line up with you tomorrow. Go get 'em!

[JohnStOnge]

3. 1995 Montana (This team will never get enough credit. The Griz made the most dominating run in I-AA playoff history that season (outscoring playoff opponents 183-27), and beating mighty Marshall on its home field for the title. This team has every right to proclaim itself as the greatest single season I-AA playoff team of all time, yet they are discredited because they played a couple of Div. II teams during the regular season.).

To me that team did not have the most dominant run in playoff history simply because it was severely challenged in the championship game before winning 22-20. Either Marshall's 1996 or Delaware's 2003 playoff run was, to me, the most dominant in both cases no playoff game outcome was ever in doubt. Marshall's closest playoff game in 1996 was by 31-14 over Northern Iowa and Delaware's closest in 2003 was by 24-9 over Wofford.

Of course Marshall's 1996 team had the most dominant overall season. 15-0 with nobody coming closer than 14 points all year. It'd be hard to make a case for the 1995 Montana team because that year the Griz lost a Big Sky game by 12 to Idaho.

Georgia Southern's 1989 team was 15-0 but had a very close call (37-34) against Stephen F. Austin in the championship game. In fact, to this day, I think that the officials played a role in that game at a critical point by calling Georgia Southern's quarterback down prior to a fumble when replays clearly showed he was not. Long story but it made the difference between SFA having the lead and the ball in GSU territory relatively late in the game and GSU going on to complete the drive and tie the score. Then with the score tied late SFA tried to throw the ball downfield instead of playing for overtime. It was intercepted to set up GSU's winning field goal.

I think GSU's most dominant team was actually its 1986 team. They lost to Florida and East Carolina but were competetive in both games. But they were undefeated vs. I-AAs and in the playoffs nobody came closer than 10 points. The Arkansas State team they destroyed in the championship game was very, very good. It also went in undefeated and had tied Ole Miss 10-10, lost a competetive game 24-9 to Mississippi State, and beaten Memphis 30-10.

[Silenoz]

Montana 1996 team > Montana 1995 team

[kdinva]

Any team that finished 14-0 or 15-0

[UMass922]

Not to knock UMass, the national title was quite commendable, but among the best ever? None of the teams being talked about in this thread lost as many games as UMass did (3), finished in conference as low as UMass did (finished 3rd in the A10 that year behind UConn and Richmond), or played as many close playoff games as UMass did (won by 2, 6, 10, and 12). The offense was good, but the defense was at best oppurtunistic - they gave up points and yards that year.

Agreed. It was an incredible playoff run that year, but no way was that one of the best I-AA teams of all-time. The GSU team they beat in the title game, though, might be in this discussion had they won.

[DJOM]

Princeton Tigers--28 National Championships and counting

[89Hen]

5. 2003 Delaware (Absolutely dominant from day one. There was never a doubt this team would take it all.)
I'm not sure I'd put them in the top 5 and I'd definitely not agree with "dominant from day one". They won a couple games they should have lost (UNH missed FG by 1") and lost one to Northeastern. There dominance was really just in the playoffs. None of the four opponents stood a chance. The Wofford game was the closest on paper, but the Terriers did nothing with the ball all game and even though the score was close, I don't think anyone in the Tub that day thought they would score a single TD (their only TD was garbage time and thanks to a penalty on the fans). xpeacex

[JohnStOnge]

I actually think the 1999 UMass team was better than the 1998 team, even though the '98 team won a national title. The 1999 team didn't sneak up on anyone being the defending champs, they had a much better defense (the '98 version was a sieve), and they hung around with GSU. AP's performance in that game was impressive as the UMass defense, while not dominant, was surely eons better than what they put on the field the year before.

The 1998 UMass team was most certainly not among the most dominant I-AA/FCS squads in history. Any time a team wins a national title that's a very good team but that year's Minutemen lost three games during the regular season then came really close to being eliminated in the first round. They beat McNeese 21-19 and McNeese had a close miss on a field goal near the end of the game. They had another close game in the second round; beating Lehigh 27-21. Seems like I recall something about a controversial call that was big and didn't go Lehigh's way but maybe a Lehigh fan can remember for sure if that was the case.

They did beat a VERY good Georgia Southern team in the championship game but Georgia Southern having 6 turnovers (or was it 7?) was a huge factor in that. The Eagles had over 500 yards of offense during the game (UMass was in the 400s somewhere). Believe me, I'd take any national championship my team (McNeese) could get but there's no way that UMass team is on any list of the most dominant I-AA/FCS squads ever. In fact I'd say they were less dominant than the average I-AA/FCS champion.

[art vandelay]

you all realize this thread is from 2005 rite.

[DSUrocks07]

you all realize this thread is from 2005 rite.

I was waiting for any App fans to jump all over this thread xlolxxlolx

They disappoint me :(

[Go...gate]

you all realize this thread is from 2005 rite.

I brought it back - it was good then and is good now.

[Sturgisjeff]

NDSU because they are just great because they are NDSU, just ask them.

[SDSUJacks]

Kind of hard to top the 1996 Marshall squad, absolutely dominant team with 14 has their smallest margin of victory.

[argh!]

marshall in '96, followed by montana in '96. then app state when ae was a soph

[DSUrocks07]

Kind of hard to top the 1996 Marshall squad, absolutely dominant team with 14 has their smallest margin of victory.

xnodxxnodx

they have my vote

[AshevilleApp]

Hard to put one APP team into the top teams for a single season, each team was tripped up on the way to the NC. Now looking at a three season spread....

[McTailGator]

Scott Garner of I-AA.org wrote an article earlier in the offseason ranking his greatest I-AA teams of all time. I liked the formula he used, gauging a I-AA championship team's worth based on three year increments--how that team performed in the previous and following years to their championship season(s). However, there was quite a bit of Southern Conference bias in it, as Scott Garner is a GSU alum. So I thought I'd make my own list.

This is my ranking of all-time I-AA teams based on SINGLE SEASON accomplishments:

1. 1996 Marshall (Absolutely incredible team. Despite accusations of impropriety, that were never proven, this is the greatest I-AA team ever fielded)

2. 1999 Georgia Southern (Adrien Peterson was unstoppable. Super team.)

3. 1995 Montana (This team will never get enough credit. The Griz made the most dominating run in I-AA playoff history that season (outscoring playoff opponents 183-27), and beating mighty Marshall on its home field for the title. This team has every right to proclaim itself as the greatest single season I-AA playoff team of all time, yet they are discredited because they played a couple of Div. II teams during the regular season.)

4. 1994 Youngstown State (Tough call here. YSU fielded some great teams in the early '90s, but this one was the best.)

5. 2003 Delaware (Absolutely dominant from day one. There was never a doubt this team would take it all.)


These are my top five. Ga Southern had some incredible 80's teams and there are others worth mentioning. But that's it for now.



I sure would have liked for McNeese to have met Montana in 1995.

[ncbears]

Ralph, Ralph, Ralph.... it is time for you to make another trip to Missoula.;)
You need another Moose Drool....:D on me!!:nod:, it is the least I could do:o

LOL. NOt to de-rail the thread but that's a very average beer.
xnodxxnodx

[Chi-towngrizzly]

LOL. NOt to de-rail the thread but that's a very average beer.
xnodxxnodx

That's why you can buy it in almost any city in the countryxwhistlex

'96 Marshall

'09 Grizxwhistlex

[Griz0383]

Just a thought! What if Montana wins the NC this year? what consideration would they receive?

[grizchamp]

That's why you can buy it in almost any city in the countryxwhistlex

'96 Marshall

'09 Grizxwhistlex

You can find Miler Lite in almost every city in the country as well. Doesn't mean its good. That being said, I like the Drool. I just don't think that it being widely available makes it that great.

In sticking with the thread though...... In this order

1996 Marshall

1996 Montana

1994 Youngstown State

[grizchamp]

Just a thought! What if Montana wins the NC this year? what consideration would they receive?

This years team would probably be the third best grizzly team if they somehow find a way to win it all. The 1996 team was better, followed by the 1995 team.

They might get some consideration (if they were to win) as the best ever since they went undefeated, but I don't think they would be any higher than #5 on that list.

[Peems]

the impressive thing to me about the Griz in 95 was the margin of victory in the playoffs. They gave up 27 points total and 20 of those were in the chipper against Marshall on their homefield. The 96 team for the griz might have been better(I don't think so) but the 96 marshall team was much much much betterxnodx

[seantaylor]

1999 GSU team. The fastest team ever fielded. Every single skill player on offense could take it 80 yards.

[ThompsonThe]

This thread, mainly from 2005, is kind of like today talking to yesterday.....could drive you guys nuts.

[Montana_Mojo]

Damn. I started this thread FOUR YEARS AGO. Why couldn't someone have just started a new one instead of going back through hundreds of pages of archives to dig this thing out. Someone has a lot of time on their hands.

I still remain steadfast in my belief that the 1995 Montana Griz team was better than their 1996 version. Both teams were great, but the big difference was that the 1995 team had a better QB and a better coach. Dickenson and Read > Ah Yat and Dennehy.

As for the notion that a "measly" two point win in the national title over Marshall offsets Montana's playoff dominance in 1995, I don't buy it. Montana absolutely pulverized their opponents in the playoffs like no team has ever done to their playoff opponents before in 1-AA playoff history. And then they beat a great Marshall team on its own homefield in front of 32,000 fans. That counts for something, and in my book, that counts for the 1995 Griz being one of the top five 1-AA teams of all time.

The 1996 Griz went undefeated all the way to the national title game (with a 35-14 demolition of PAC 10 doormat Oregon State as a feather in their hat). But this was also a team that played a very easy regular season schedule, with Boise State and Idaho having departed for the Big West. I don't believe this team was as good as the 1995 version, and I'm not so sure the 1996 version of the Griz could have won at Marshall in 1995. Ah Yat was a great statistical QB, but he didn't have the moxy or ability to perform in the clutch like Super Dave did.

[Montana_Mojo]

Four years later, not a lot has changed in my rankings, except that the 2006 Appalachian State team earns a spot among the all time greats.

1. 1996 Marshall: This team would have been ranked if it had played in 1-A that season, and would have won several 1-A conferences that year. It was that good. Simply unstoppable. And Randy Moss may have been the best player in all of college football that year.

2. 1999 Georgia Southern: This team was on a mission after being humiliated by heavy underdog UMass in the 1998 title match. Their only 1-AA loss came by one point on the road to an Appalachian State team on the rise, and the other one coming at Oregon State. Adrian Peterson was perhaps the offensive player of the decade in 1-AA, and the GSU offense scored over 50 points SEVEN times that season (including 59 points in a blow-torching of Youngstown State in the national title game), and erupted for over 70 points in three games, including a 72-29 flogging of Northern Arizona in the first round of the 1-AA playoffs.

3. 2006 Appalachian State: The Mountaineers smoked just about every team on their schedule, with the exception of a respectable loss to bowl bound NC State. Armanti Edwards, as a true freshman, was unstoppable, scoring 30 TDs (15 passing, 15 rushing) as opposing defenses simply had no answer for him. The playoffs were merely a statement in a dominant season that secured Appalachian State's greatness in the annals of 1-AA history, exclamated with a trouncing of a powerful UMass team in the title game.

4. 1995 Montana: No team has ever had a more dominant and magical playoff run than this team had. They mauled their first three playoff victims unrecognizable by a combined 163-14, and then defeated mighty Marshall on their home field 22-20 in a game where the Griz dominated throughout before Marshall rallied late. The Griz offense of 1995 was the most explosive offense that the Big Sky has ever seen, before or since. Dave Dickenson toppled just about every Big Sky single season and career team AND conference record, he was THAT good. The Griz suffered setbacks at 1-A Washington State and fell to Idaho in a shootout. But they demolished everyone else on their schedule.

5. 1994 Youngstown State: This team rolled to 14 straight wins after a season opening tie against Stephen F Austin. Their defense stiffled every offense they played and only allowed an average of 10 points a game throughout the season. This was YSU's repeat national title team, and the best of their four national title winners. They stuffed Steve McNair's Alcorn State team in the first round of the playoffs that year, survived a defensive battle with EKU in the quarterfinals before punishing both Montana and Boise State in the semifinals and national championship, respectively.


Honorable Mentions: 1989 Georgia Southern, 2003 Delaware, 1986 Georgia Southern, 2007 Appalachian State, 1984 Montana State, 1992 Marshall

[Montana_Mojo]

I sure would have liked for McNeese to have met Montana in 1995.


In retrospect, I'm glad the Griz played Marshall. But I remember watching Marshall clobber McNeese in Lake Charles on ESPN later in the afternoon after the Griz had already taken care of their business. Every Griz fan was pulling for McNeese because they were spooked by the prospect of having to play a virtual road game for the championship at Marshall.

Not only that, there wasn't a doubt in any Griz fan's mind that the Griz would have blown away McNeese in the title game. And they would have. xsmiley_wix

[AggieRX]

Can't argue about placing that Marshall team from '96 as the #1 team

[JohnStOnge]

In retrospect, I'm glad the Griz played Marshall. But I remember watching Marshall clobber McNeese in Lake Charles on ESPN later in the afternoon after the Griz had already taken care of their business.

It was a very disappointing loss but I wouldn't say Marshall "clobbered" McNeese. The score was 25-13 and the outcome was in doubt until Marshall put together a long drive late to put it away. Prior to that, with the score at 18-13, McNeese had driven inside the Marshall 20 but was called for a block in the back then took a big sack. They punted down deep then Marshall went on its long drive.

[JohnStOnge]

Not only that, there wasn't a doubt in any Griz fan's mind that the Griz would have blown away McNeese in the title game. And they would have. xsmiley_wix

Well, we'll never know. My guess is that if it had happened Stephen F. Austin fans would've said Montana was a tougher opponent but Idaho fans would've said McNeese was.

[Montana_Mojo]

It was a very disappointing loss but I wouldn't say Marshall "clobbered" McNeese. The score was 25-13 and the outcome was in doubt until Marshall put together a long drive late to put it away. Prior to that, with the score at 18-13, McNeese had driven inside the Marshall 20 but was called for a block in the back then took a big sack. They punted down deep then Marshall went on its long drive.

You're right. Marshall didn't "clobber" McNeese. But they had full control of that game from almost the outset. Marshall "handled" McNeese, as in there was little doubt as to which team was better. Does that verbiage work for you?

[McTailGator]

I was at that game and had quite a few friends on that team. UD made some adjustments offensively at half time and then turned loose Nate Beasley who ran all over the Cowboys in the second half. Of course payback came in 1997.


I think payback came in 1995.

1997 was us just getting ahead.

[McTailGator]

You're right. Marshall didn't "clobber" McNeese. But they had full control of that game from almost the outset. Marshall "handled" McNeese, as in there was little doubt as to which team was better. Does that verbiage work for you?


McNeese simply just laid an egg in that game pure and simple.

If they played again the next week, McNeese would have won.

And McNeese wanted a piece of Montana's @## for that 1994 miricle in the snow last minute kick.

[CSN-info]

2008 FCS Yearbook
CSN

Top 30 Championship Games (http://www.collegesportingnews.com/stats/writer/Top30/Top30Games.pdf)

[EKUSteve]

That '94 YSU team was dominant (14-0-1) eventhough they tied SFA in the first game of the year. Their defense was very quick and held opponents under 10 pts a game. IMO, the best YSU team in school history. They did have a couple of tight ones during the year and EKU in the ployoffs they won in the last minutes.

Yep, I was at both games against EKU that season.

13 - 6 in the regular season.
18 - 15 in the playoffs.

It would have been interesting to see YSU playing a full strength Montana that year as Dave Dickinson got hurt and did not play against YSU. But YSU was stout defensively.

[EKUSteve]

Four years later, not a lot has changed in my rankings, except that the 2006 Appalachian State team earns a spot among the all time greats.

1. 1996 Marshall: This team would have been ranked if it had played in 1-A that season, and would have won several 1-A conferences that year. It was that good. Simply unstoppable. And Randy Moss may have been the best player in all of college football that year.

2. 1999 Georgia Southern: This team was on a mission after being humiliated by heavy underdog UMass in the 1998 title match. Their only 1-AA loss came by one point on the road to an Appalachian State team on the rise, and the other one coming at Oregon State. Adrian Peterson was perhaps the offensive player of the decade in 1-AA, and the GSU offense scored over 50 points SEVEN times that season (including 59 points in a blow-torching of Youngstown State in the national title game), and erupted for over 70 points in three games, including a 72-29 flogging of Northern Arizona in the first round of the 1-AA playoffs.

3. 2006 Appalachian State: The Mountaineers smoked just about every team on their schedule, with the exception of a respectable loss to bowl bound NC State. Armanti Edwards, as a true freshman, was unstoppable, scoring 30 TDs (15 passing, 15 rushing) as opposing defenses simply had no answer for him. The playoffs were merely a statement in a dominant season that secured Appalachian State's greatness in the annals of 1-AA history, exclamated with a trouncing of a powerful UMass team in the title game.

4. 1995 Montana: No team has ever had a more dominant and magical playoff run than this team had. They mauled their first three playoff victims unrecognizable by a combined 163-14, and then defeated mighty Marshall on their home field 22-20 in a game where the Griz dominated throughout before Marshall rallied late. The Griz offense of 1995 was the most explosive offense that the Big Sky has ever seen, before or since. Dave Dickenson toppled just about every Big Sky single season and career team AND conference record, he was THAT good. The Griz suffered setbacks at 1-A Washington State and fell to Idaho in a shootout. But they demolished everyone else on their schedule.

5. 1994 Youngstown State: This team rolled to 14 straight wins after a season opening tie against Stephen F Austin. Their defense stiffled every offense they played and only allowed an average of 10 points a game throughout the season. This was YSU's repeat national title team, and the best of their four national title winners. They stuffed Steve McNair's Alcorn State team in the first round of the playoffs that year, survived a defensive battle with EKU in the quarterfinals before punishing both Montana and Boise State in the semifinals and national championship, respectively.


Honorable Mentions: 1989 Georgia Southern, 2003 Delaware, 1986 Georgia Southern, 2007 Appalachian State, 1984 Montana State, 1992 Marshall

No love at all for even an honorable mention for the 1982 EKU team that went 13 - 0?

[justballn21]

Like I said, though, besides the playoff ban the other major drawback against the '87 Holy Cross team was that they only played against the IAA in the East (of couse, without the playoffs they wouldn't play much outside the region anyway) and the mid to late '80's, in the IAA world, was heavily dominated by the Southern Conference (or teams that became the Southern Conference), and to a lesser extent the Southland and Big Sky conferences. UD had a playoff team lead by senior Rich Gannon in 1986, and he was easily one of the best single players to ever play at the IAA level. UD destroyed fellow Easterner W&M in the first round, and in easily the most impressive performance I've ever seen by an opponent at Delaware Stadium, Arkansas St blew the doors off of UD in the quarters (55-14) - it was like little children (UD) playing amongst men (Ark St). If UD didn't have Gannon they wouldn't have scored at all. And that Ark St team didn't even win the title that year. IAA is much more regionally balanced these days and you don't have regions that are as bad as the East was in the late 80's. As Holy Cross was a product of that weak region at that time, they'll always be somewhat suspect because of that.

Not to rehash an old thread, but I think it's important to note that the 1987 Holy Cross team was ranked #1 in the final polls, ahead of eventual champions NE Louisiana, who were #3 in the polls. just saying....

[GannonFan]

Not to rehash an old thread, but I think it's important to note that the 1987 Holy Cross team was ranked #1 in the final polls, ahead of eventual champions NE Louisiana, who were #3 in the polls. just saying....

That's why the National Champion is settled on the field at this level. It's very typical for the #1 team in the polls at the end of the regular season not to be the National Champion once the playoffs are over. Playoffs are a different beast.

[Franks Tanks]

That's why the National Champion is settled on the field at this level. It's very typical for the #1 team in the polls at the end of the regular season not to be the National Champion once the playoffs are over. Playoffs are a different beast.

Holy Cross didnt participate in the playoffs. It a bit of a different scenario that what you are describing above.

[App Attack]

I can't argue the undefeated Ga Southern and Marshall teams. They are definitely 1-2. You know I'm gonna add the 2006 and 2007 App teams as honorable mention. In 2006 App went 14-1 and lost at NC State 23-10. QB Trey Elder just came off shoulder surgery and could not throw the ball. The next week a guy named Armanti Edwards would take over for good. We rolled through the playoffs winning every game by double digits. In 2007, obviously we beat #5 Michigan at the Big House. That was the first time a I-AA team had ever beaten a Top 25 I-A team. We created new rules where a I-AA team could be ranked in the I-A Top 25. We dominated a very good Delaware team with a guy named Joe Flacco 49-21.

[Go...gate]

Not to rehash an old thread, but I think it's important to note that the 1987 Holy Cross team was ranked #1 in the final polls, ahead of eventual champions NE Louisiana, who were #3 in the polls. just saying....

Yes. I certainly believe it may be the greatest I-AA/FCS team ever.

[Zangzigger]

Marshall with Pennington and Moss were incredible

[SalukiJim]

That's why the National Champion is settled on the field at this level. It's very typical for the #1 team in the polls at the end of the regular season not to be the National Champion once the playoffs are over. Playoffs are a different beast.

Amen to this and it's why I love FCS~it's not a "beauty pageant" decided by voters that think this team is "prettier" than another (been trying to explain FCS to my girlfriend, sorry for the bad analogies xrolleyesx).

[SalukiJim]

I can't argue the undefeated Ga Southern and Marshall teams. They are definitely 1-2. You know I'm gonna add the 2006 and 2007 App teams as honorable mention. In 2006 App went 14-1 and lost at NC State 23-10. QB Trey Elder just came off shoulder surgery and could not throw the ball. The next week a guy named Armanti Edwards would take over for good. We rolled through the playoffs winning every game by double digits. In 2007, obviously we beat #5 Michigan at the Big House. That was the first time a I-AA team had ever beaten a Top 25 I-A team. We created new rules where a I-AA team could be ranked in the I-A Top 25. We dominated a very good Delaware team with a guy named Joe Flacco 49-21.

That 2007 team was the only time I was glad to lose a game - vs. Delaware in the semis - because everybody knew that whoever faced AE & Co. was gonna get steamrolled!

[GannonFan]

I can't argue the undefeated Ga Southern and Marshall teams. They are definitely 1-2. You know I'm gonna add the 2006 and 2007 App teams as honorable mention. In 2006 App went 14-1 and lost at NC State 23-10. QB Trey Elder just came off shoulder surgery and could not throw the ball. The next week a guy named Armanti Edwards would take over for good. We rolled through the playoffs winning every game by double digits. In 2007, obviously we beat #5 Michigan at the Big House. That was the first time a I-AA team had ever beaten a Top 25 I-A team. We created new rules where a I-AA team could be ranked in the I-A Top 25. We dominated a very good Delaware team with a guy named Joe Flacco 49-21.


That 2007 team was the only time I was glad to lose a game - vs. Delaware in the semis - because everybody knew that whoever faced AE & Co. was gonna get steamrolled!

Of course what's odd about all of that is that Appy St was fortunate in '07 to even make the title game, as they needed a last second fumble by JMU inside Appy's own 10 yard line to preserve the first round victory. Without that, the '07 team would've been a very good title-less team.

[HenZoneNation]

There are a lot of "what could have's" when dealing with FCS playoffs and history. I look at our own misfortune in 07 with injuries after the Navy game. Our two best pass rushers could barely play, and then later we lost our starting Tackle. Without those injuries, we probably win the NC. But that's the playoffs and if a team gets hot or can avoid injuries, or have injuries to positions they are deep in, they win.

I would however put the 03 Hens against any of the Appy team. No disrespect, but I was rewatching the NC game. That was a sick team. Our defense was very fast and tackled very well, nobody in the FCS could block Johnson, we had five guys on that defense that made NFL camps, one who is now an NFL starter. Our offensive line had one of the greatest Guards we've ever had (made the Tampa squad at the start of 04 before he got cut), a quarterback who got drafted in the 6 round and could run and throw, three outstanding wr's, and 1,600 yard back. That team was absolutely incredible. No one has ever dominated an NC like that.

Oh the glory years...hey, did I ever tell you the time I scored 4 touchdowns in asingle game for Polk High?

[Sader87]

The '87 HC team was ranked #25 in ESPN's final 1-A poll that year. Another "subjective" accolade agreed but that team has to be mentioned in the mix as one of the best 1-AA teams from 1980 to today.

[GannonFan]

The '87 HC team was ranked #25 in ESPN's final 1-A poll that year. Another "subjective" accolade agreed but that team has to be mentioned in the mix as one of the best 1-AA teams from 1980 to today.

I don't think anyone has any problem "mentioning" them, but without the playoff cred that's all they'll be. xcoffeex

[caribbeanhen]

The '74 team beat some great competition Akron, The Citadel 48-12, McNeese State 29-24, Villanova 49-7 Youngstown 35-14 Nevada-Las Vegas 49-11

They lost in the championship to a Central Michigan team that went I-A the next year sort of like Marshall. The '74 team went into the title game more banged up then any other Hen playoff team. The stories about Nevada Las Vegas cheap shots the week before were true.

first time I got a glimpse of the Bluehens was the 74 UNLV game, I am sure it was on ABC, a Wing T clinic, I remember hearing all sorts of "rumors" about what happened the next week against C Michigan including that the pre-game meal was spiked.xnodx:D No way that was a Div 2 team

[caribbeanhen]

:nod: I list that as the worst game I've ever seen in Delaware Stadium. It was never close.

what about the second half of the JMU game this yearxlolx
No, any Hen fan in attendance that day would say the same thing