Any Ivy League lawyers on this board?

[Model Citizen]

I need help making sense of the following.

"After a thorough survey of the league membership’s financial aid policies, the league affirmed its commitment to the non-scholarship philosophy. The league did agree to begin formulating its financial aid policies independent of the Division III financial aid legislation in an attempt to better address the needs of the league’s membership."

http://www.pioneer-football.org/news/archives/2014/965/pioneer-football-league-concludes-2014-summer-meetings/

Does the statement quoted above mean...

A. Nothing.
B. San Diego might, in the future, be able to do what it was busted for in 2013.
C. The PFL webmaster loves him some prepositional phrases.
D. The Patriot League (c. 2000) is now the PFL's model for a "non-scholarship" league.
E. "agree to begin" is somewhere between "begin to agree" and "we're doing it."
F. More than one of the above.
G. None of the above.

[Bill]

While I chose not to attend law school, I believe the choice lies somewhere between (B), (D), and (G) :)

It's always nice for a conference (on an athletic level) to agree that the financial aid policies will change...it's another thing entirely for the schools to actually agree to start paying for it!

[RichH2]

It would appear that PFL is condidering some form of PL non schollie mode which is essentially what SanDiego did.

[Bogus Megapardus]

It would appear that PFL is considering some form of PL non schollie mode which is essentially what SanDiego did.

And to think we got away with it for so long, RichH2! ;)

[RichH2]

And to think we got away with it for so long, RichH2! ;)
Caught that didya? Probably because no one looked.
Killing some time til dinner by perusing NCAA rules and by laws. Your post on Pard Bd sparked my curiousity. Unless I missed something(always possible :) ) , a bit perplexed by our prior need scholarship program and how it could comply with NCAA.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Caught that didya? Probably because no one looked.
Killing some time til dinner by perusing NCAA rules and by laws. Your post on Pard Bd sparked my curiousity. Unless I missed something(always possible :) ) , a bit perplexed by our prior need scholarship program and how it could comply with NCAA.

I sent a PM and referred the OP to the long-winding on the Pard Board. xlolx

[DFW HOYA]

Does the statement quoted above mean...

A. Nothing.
B. San Diego might, in the future, be able to do what it was busted for in 2013.
C. The PFL webmaster loves him some prepositional phrases.
D. The Patriot League (c. 2000) is now the PFL's model for a "non-scholarship" league.
E. "agree to begin" is somewhere between "begin to agree" and "we're doing it."
F. More than one of the above.
G. None of the above.

G. The PFL is opposing a pending change in D-III rules for team travel.

https://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/committees-call-championship-changes-address-budget-shortfalls

[Bogus Megapardus]

G. The PFL is opposing a pending change in D-III rules for team travel.

https://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/committees-call-championship-changes-address-budget-shortfalls

Why would the PFL oppose DIII travel allowances?

In any event, one of my kids played DIII and I'm certain some of you have kids who did as well. You've all heard the DIII the travel stories first hand - four kids jammed into each Motel 6 room, sixteen guys packed into a 12-seat Chevy van, meal allowance that gets you a Slurpee and a bag of chips at 7-11 if you're lucky.

There are more pressing matters with which these PFL oppositionists ought to be concerned.

[Bison56]

No but I did stay in a Holiday Express last night.

[Model Citizen]

G. The PFL is opposing a pending change in D-III rules for team travel.

https://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/committees-call-championship-changes-address-budget-shortfalls

Curiously, you seem to think the PFL is tied to D-III rules. This has never been the case, and as a D-I league, the PFL isn't involved with legislation in other divisions.

Over the years, the PFL has been different from D-III in areas such as spring football and contact allowed in scrimmages.

The d-III reference is to the financial aid model - nothing more, nothing less. The commissioner's choice of words was both condescending and needlessly bureaucratic.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Curiously, you seem to think the PFL is tied to D-III rules. This has never been the case, and as a D-I league, the PFL isn't involved with legislation in other divisions.

Over the years, the PFL has been different from D-III in areas such as spring football and contact allowed in scrimmages.

The d-III reference is to the financial aid model - nothing more, nothing less. The commissioner's choice of words was both condescending and needlessly bureaucratic.

Either that, or the PFL release aims to convince the public at large that the PFL currently is tied, by some external mandate, to the DIII athletic aid model.

As a staunch Patriot League advocate and a (former) naysayer regarding "direct" PL athletic merit aid, my view is that this PFL press release is curiously - and perhaps deliberately - misinforming. Certainly the PFL commissioner knows that current NCAA By-Laws require all Division I institutions, including PFL members, to provide a minimum level of athletic merit aid to their participating student-athletes. It's simply not credible to pretend that this isn't so.

I understand what the PFL is trying to do and I don't necessarily question its motives, but asking folks to filter through that sort of political smokescreen to get to the bottom line really has no place in collegiate athletics, at any level, IMHO.

[Model Citizen]

For 21 years, they have chosen to be non-scholly, much the same as required in D-III. No equivalences allowed.

Mimicking d-III aid restrictions has been a choice. But if D-III rules changed, the PFL would not be affected. Hopefully, most people get this.

[Ivytalk]

I'm an Ivy League lawyer, but I'm not admitted to the PFL bar. My malpractice insurance won't cover it.

[Sader87]

Bogey, why were you against schollies in the PL.....and secondly, why are you now for them?

[Model Citizen]

I'm an Ivy League lawyer, but I'm not admitted to the PFL bar. My malpractice insurance won't cover it.

:-)

[Bogus Megapardus]

I'm an Ivy League lawyer

Who knew? xrolleyesx





"The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers."

Dick the Butcher in Henry The Sixth, Part 2, Act 4, Scene 2

[RichH2]

Lets not give them any rash ideas Bogie. Gee, you ask for a lawyer and they come out of the woodwork Geeesh xthumbsupx

[Bogus Megapardus]

Bogey, why were you against schollies in the PL?

Honestly?

I'm selfish and I like playing our traditional opponents. I don't want to get caught up in an arms race that sacrifices academic and institutional integrity for athletic prowness that does not necessarily inure to the essential nature of the college. Lafayette does not have in-state tuition rates and it doesn't enjoy public funding. Lafayette is very small and academic; it needs all the flexibility it can muster. I am spoiled by easy travel to away games at Ivy and I appreciate the stadia and the atmosphere. Often I meet my friends and acquaintances at Ivy games. I fear losing that. We're a school that has won three national collegiate football championships at the very highest level (albeit some considerable years ago) doing things the "Lafayette Way." Tradition maintains a stronghold.


And why are you now for them?

The NCAA requirements for Division I members are unambiguous. Division I institutions now are required by NCAA by-laws to provide a minimum level of athletic aid. It's utter hogwash for any current Division I school to claim that it doesn't provide athletic aid. I am resolved to calling the money it what it is - and always has been for that matter. Lafayette historically has been, and will remain, a participant in the top level of intercollegiate athletics in every sport. That attribute is not negotiable under any circumstances. By "owning" the true nature of its funding formulae, Lafayette is better able to attract more accomplished, highly academic student-athletes from across the country.

That's about it in a nutshell.

[RichH2]

Honestly?

I'm selfish and I like playing our traditional opponents. I don't want to get caught up in an arms race that sacrifices academic and institutional integrity for athletic prowness that does not necessarily inure to the essential nature of the college. Lafayette does not have in-state tuition rates and it doesn't enjoy public funding. Lafayette is very small and academic; it needs all the flexibility it can muster. I am spoiled by easy travel to away games at Ivy and I appreciate the stadia and the atmosphere. Often I meet my friends and acquaintances at Ivy games. I fear losing that. We're a school that has won three national collegiate football championships at the very highest level (albeit some considerable years ago) doing things the "Lafayette Way." Tradition maintains a stronghold.



The NCAA requirements for Division I members are unambiguous. Division I institutions now are required by NCAA by-laws to provide a minimum level of athletic aid. It's utter hogwash for any current Division I school to claim that it doesn't provide athletic aid. I am resolved to calling the money it what it is - and always has been for that matter. Lafayette historically has been, and will remain, a participant in the top level of intercollegiate athletics. That attribute is not negotiable under any circumstances. By "owning" the true nature of its funding formulae, Lafayette is better able to attract more accomplished, highly academic student-athletes from across the country.

That's about it in a nutshell.
Yup,applies to the PL ,yeah even Hoyas. :)

[Go...gate]

Bogey, why were you against schollies in the PL.....and secondly, why are you now for them?

I was against them as well for a very long time. However, the closer I looked, the more I realized that most of us were already giving scholarships - we just called it something else (as the Ivy League does). I also felt as Bogus does about Colgate's own traditional relationship with the Ivy League, which, at least in football, will take a major hit in future years.

[Go...gate]

Honestly?

I'm selfish and I like playing our traditional opponents. I don't want to get caught up in an arms race that sacrifices academic and institutional integrity for athletic prowness that does not necessarily inure to the essential nature of the college. Lafayette does not have in-state tuition rates and it doesn't enjoy public funding. Lafayette is very small and academic; it needs all the flexibility it can muster. I am spoiled by easy travel to away games at Ivy and I appreciate the stadia and the atmosphere. Often I meet my friends and acquaintances at Ivy games. I fear losing that. We're a school that has won three national collegiate football championships at the very highest level (albeit some considerable years ago) doing things the "Lafayette Way." Tradition maintains a stronghold.

The NCAA requirements for Division I members are unambiguous. Division I institutions now are required by NCAA by-laws to provide a minimum level of athletic aid. It's utter hogwash for any current Division I school to claim that it doesn't provide athletic aid. I am resolved to calling the money it what it is - and always has been for that matter. Lafayette historically has been, and will remain, a participant in the top level of intercollegiate athletics. That attribute is not negotiable under any circumstances. By "owning" the true nature of its funding formulae, Lafayette is better able to attract more accomplished, highly academic student-athletes from across the country.

That's about it in a nutshell.

Well said.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Oh Jeez - this is about to become another PL takeover thread. xlolx xrotatehx xnodx

[PAllen]

Oh Jeez - this is about to become another PL takeover thread. xlolx xrotatehx xnodx

Is there any other kind?

[Go Green]

No but I did stay in a Holiday Express last night.

And I'm just a PL lawyer myself.

:)

[Go Green]

I'm an Ivy League lawyer, but I'm not admitted to the PFL bar. My malpractice insurance won't cover it.

Yep. No PFL bar admissions for me either (unless you count federal courts of appeal).

[Bill]

I appreciate the stadia and the atmosphere. .

Bogie - very well done with the correct plural of "stadium" xthumbsupx

My spell check still doesn't like it, though.

[Bill]

Is there any other kind?

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19571&stc=1

[2ram]

i'm offended! what's wrong wtih PL lawyers? fordham's law school ain't too shabby, and georgetown's law school ranking isn't the same as their football team's.

[Go Green]

what's wrong wtih PL lawyers? .

I hear you, brother.

But until American U. starts pulling their weight, "PL Lawyer" isn't going to mean much.

[Ivytalk]

i'm offended! what's wrong wtih PL lawyers? fordham's law school ain't too shabby, and georgetown's law school ranking isn't the same as their football team's.

Put 11 random Georgetown law students (including women) on the gridiron, and they'd beat the varsity 9 times out of 10.:p

[Go...gate]

Colgate needs a Law School.

[citdog]

Colgate needs a Law School.

Like there aren't already enough lawyers crawling around on their bellies on this planet.

[Go...gate]

Aftre graduating from Colgate in the Dark Ages, I ended up at Dickinson School of Law (now part of Penn State).

DSL was a great school with lots of people from Patriot League schools (as well as a couple from The Citadel, an honorary PL school :)).

Would have been nice if Colgate had some kind of Law School.

[Go...gate]

Like there aren't already enough lawyers crawling around on their bellies on this planet.

Now, now. I just got back from a zoning board meeting. I promise that the few dollars I make are earned by honest labor.

[Go Green]

Now, now. I just got back from a zoning board meeting. I promise that the few dollars I make are earned by honest labor.

Damn straight! Not all of us are like Saul Goodman.

:)

[Model Citizen]

Getting back on topic, I've seen some confirmation that the PFL is indeed gathering proposals for changing what financial aid is allowed. If this goes forward, I don't expect an actual policy change until the 2016 recruiting class.

Key for commissioner Viverito will be the pretense that the league is remaining "non-scholarship," as a way to dismiss her conflict of interest (she is also commissioner of the Missouri Valley's FCS brand). Not sure what the specific proposals will be, but grants covering unmet need seem likely.

[RichH2]

Getting back on topic, I've seen some confirmation that the PFL is indeed gathering proposals for changing what financial aid is allowed. If this goes forward, I don't expect an actual policy change until the 2016 recruiting class.

Key for commissioner Viverito will be the pretense that the league is remaining "non-scholarship," as a way to dismiss her conflict of interest (she is also commissioner of the Missouri Valley's FCS brand). Not sure what the specific proposals will be, but grants covering unmet need seem likely.
ala PL prior model.

[Model Citizen]

Exactly.

Could everyone in the PFL jump in with the kind of money the Patriot Leaguers spent in the 2000s? It might take a while for a Valparaiso to get to that level...although I'm sure Cecchini is one of the main cheerleaders for change.

[RichH2]

Do you think PFL willimpose limits on grants,if they go this way?

[Model Citizen]

Do you think PFL willimpose limits on grants,if they go this way?

Maybe. On the other hand, I question the ability of this league to enforce an equivalency or counter limit below the NCAA standard. So why bother?

[Model Citizen]

Speaking of Cecchini, am I the only one who wondered why he would leave a coordinator job at Lehigh for Valpo? If becoming a small college head coach was his only goal, he could have gone a lot of other places, including D-II.

I'm thinking that Valparaiso reached out to him. Then they made a lot of promises about fighting to remake the PFL along the lines of the Patriot League.

Plus, Cecchini probably liked the school colors. :D

[RichH2]

Ceech wanted HC. He has been in the running for some,including LU, for quite a while. Interesting speculation on timing of his hire a.d push to alter aid policy. Rooting for him to excel.

[PAllen]

Story is that Cecchini interviewed for an Ivy position or two but was told he needed D-I head coaching experience. You're probably right about Valpo's moves, so off he goes to get the one piece of experience he needs. honestly, I think it was a mistake for the ivies not to snatch him up when they had the chance, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him back in the northeast in a few years.

[citdog]

Ceech wanted HC. He has been in the running for some,including LU, for quite a while. Interesting speculation on timing of his hire a.d push to alter aid policy. Rooting for him to excel.

Guy did a pretty good job against FAR SUPERIOR competition than he EVER saw in the patsy league when he was at The Citadel. I expect Valpo to be much improved.

[Go Green]

Story is that Cecchini interviewed for an Ivy position or two but was told he needed D-I head coaching experience. .

Odd, if true.

Some of the Ivy's best coaches got their first D-I head coaching job at the Ivy.

[Model Citizen]

Turning Valpo into a winner would be a scaled down version of the Bill Snyder miracle at Kansas State. Seriously, they would name buildings after Cecchini.

[RichH2]

Guess fhey will then. Once ,he has AirLehigh O running, Valpo will score.

[Model Citizen]

...and I think he might have to stay a few years to get that memorial. ;)

[RichH2]

...and I think he might have to stay a few years to get that memorial. ;)

Ok,but dont forget we are only lending him to Valpo. :)

[Go...gate]

Do you think PFL will impose limits on grants,if they go this way?

Makes sense that they would, given the budgets of these programs.