North Dakota AD willing to play two guarantee games at NDSU to restart the rivalry

[MplsBison]

http://www.inforum.com/content/und-ad-faison-may-be-willing-ok-fargo-only-deal-get-football-rivalry-going


University of North Dakota athletic director Brian Faison may be willing to sign a contract to renew the UND-North Dakota State football rivalry without any guarantee of a game in Grand Forks.

Faison, who previously held firm asking for a home-and-home series, indicated Friday that he would even consider playing two games in Fargo for a monetary guarantee just to get the dormant rivalry started again.

“There’s a strong sentiment from a certain part of our fan base that, whatever we have to do, let’s do it,” Faison told Forum News Service. “If that means one game or two games … at least it gets it to being started again. I’ve been working to get a home-and-home, but that doesn’t appear to be in the mix.”

The article also goes on to show how, pathetically, still vindictive Gene Taylor is toward UND. Really sad. It taints his otherwise legandary legacy at NDSU. (not to mention the fact that this basically proves that he lied on the Bison Media Blog interview where he claimed not to have anything personal toward UND)


Emails obtained through an open record request showed that Taylor and Faison were close to agreeing to a home-and-home deal to play in Fargo in 2015 and in Grand Forks in 2017. But beginning in January, Taylor began changing terms of the contract.

In an email sent Jan. 24, Taylor told Faison that NDSU has to play six home games in 2017 and would not be able to play a road game against a Football Championship Subdivision team. He offered that both games be played in Fargo, but Faison declined.

In another email on Feb. 19, Taylor offered monetary guarantees of “$190,000 for one game or $380,000 for two games” in Fargo. Faison counter-offered different dates for a home-and-home series.

In May, Taylor changed that guarantee to $125,000 for a single game in Fargo in 2015, while drawing up framework for the deal, including number of tickets and sideline passes.

However, four days before leaving office, Taylor sent another email to Faison saying that a single game in Fargo would no longer work.

“I talked with our President and football coach,” Taylor wrote on July 28. “We are still going to hold to a two-game deal in Fargo to get this started. For various reasons that I have mentioned before we feel that two games to start the series in Fargo is where we start. Since you can’t make another road game work in 2017 we will offer the September 19, 2015 in Fargo and another game in either 2018 or 2019 that works for you. We have options for both of those years.”

UND has one open date in 2018 (Sept. 1) and three available dates in 2019 (Aug. 31, Sept. 7, and Sept. 14).

xsmhx xsmhx

[Red & Black]

Hmmm. They should renew the rivalry.

[darell1976]

One game would be acceptable but 2 in Fargo with no return game...screw that!!

[catamount man]

I still recall the pics of the UND players hoisting the BUFFALO NICKLE at Grand Forks after the win in 2003. FCS needs this rivalry again! And good luck to both schools if and when it happens.

[SDFS]

http://www.inforum.com/content/und-ad-faison-may-be-willing-ok-fargo-only-deal-get-football-rivalry-going



The article also goes on to show how, pathetically, still vindictive Gene Taylor is toward UND. Really sad. It taints his otherwise legandary legacy at NDSU. (not to mention the fact that this basically proves that he lied on the Bison Media Blog interview where he claimed not to have anything personal toward UND)



xsmhx xsmhx

Actually that article is incorrect, they reached a verbal agreement and were working on dates only.. and then things started changing again and again.. it really shows the integrating associated with NDSU. Don't worry an email has been seen to the AD - home and home or move on.. lots of great FCS games in the area.

[Herder]

http://www.inforum.com/content/und-ad-faison-may-be-willing-ok-fargo-only-deal-get-football-rivalry-going



The article also goes on to show how, pathetically, still vindictive Gene Taylor is toward UND. Really sad. It taints his otherwise legandary legacy at NDSU. (not to mention the fact that this basically proves that he lied on the Bison Media Blog interview where he claimed not to have anything personal toward UND)



xsmhx xsmhx

To balance its budgets, NDSU relies on football, UND relies on Hockey. That all you need to know. Not sad, just real.

[Herder]

One game would be acceptable but 2 in Fargo with no return game...screw that!!

Darell, before you click the purcahse button for you on-line deal, be sure to check the terms and conditions. If you don't like your terms and conditions, don't purchase. It your decision.

[bisonnation]

One game would be acceptable but 2 in Fargo with no return game...screw that!!

No game for you. (think the soup nazi voice)

[darell1976]

No game for you. (think the soup nazi voice)

Oh we'll have a game, just not with you and life will continue. UND finished a h/h with SDSU without 2 games in Brookings, it was signed when NDSU was at the bottom of the MVFC and SDSU was towards the top(2009).

[SDFS]

Darell, before you click the purcahse button for you on-line deal, be sure to check the terms and conditions. If you don't like your terms and conditions, don't purchase. It your decision.

Rural America it is said - your word is your bond. I guess at NDSU it's all about the fine print and signatures - good to know.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Rural America it is said - your word is your bond. I guess at NDSU it's all about the fine print and signatures - good to know.

I wonder if you think sentiments such as this mean anything. Your feckless AD can't pull the trigger so the terms got worse. It doesn't matter at all to NDSU if this gets done. The Fargodome will sell out with Incarnate Word, why do we give one **** about you guys?

[SDFS]

I wonder if you think sentiments such as this mean anything. Your feckless AD can't pull the trigger so the terms got worse. It doesn't matter at all to NDSU if this gets done. The Fargodome will sell out with Incarnate Word, why do we give one **** about you guys?

I don't understand your logic a verbal agreement was reached per open records requests. A contract was sent to NDSU, terms were changed. As I said, in small town main street North Dakota words have meaning (or they used to ... I guess the rural culture has changed your word means nothing - as I said it is good know. I will make those comments when I go back home and see how it goes. I know what my uncle is going say and we still have the homestead farm in my family).

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I don't understand your logic a verbal agreement was reached per open records requests. A contract was sent to NDSU, terms were changed. As I said, in small town main street North Dakota words have meaning (or they used to ... I guess the rural culture has changed your word means nothing - as I said it is good know. I will make those comments when I go back home and see how it goes. I know what my uncle is going say and we still have the homestead farm in my family).

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2817947/billbored.gif

[centennial]

I am completely against playing UND. Other than a "rivalry" that most newer fans don't even care about. For me once we start playing the disadvantages are-
We won't be able to stop playing them
We will have to compromise between 6 home games + fbs
Weak team so our SOS suffers
Not many people want to watch a 40-7 type of game
Advantage-
SiouxSports can give it a rest about how we are afraid of them.

[darell1976]

I am completely against playing UND. Other than a "rivalry" that most newer fans don't even care about. For me once we start playing the disadvantages are-
We won't be able to stop playing them (in-state rival, we play each other in all other sports)
We will have to compromise between 6 home games + fbs (scheduling H/H with EWU gives you 5 home games unless you don't have an FBS in 2018)
Weak team so our SOS suffers (playing a h/h with Weber State in 2014, also is playing Incarnate Word in 2014)
Not many people want to watch a 40-7 type of game (sucks if UND is on the 40 point of that score, UND is 4-1 in the Fargodome and 2-0 in the Alerus vs NDSU)
Advantage-
SiouxSports can give it a rest about how we are afraid of them (Bisonville can melt down if UND wins).

FIFY:D

[centennial]

FIFY:D
We have been pushed to h/h with weaker teams. However, we don't have to keep playing those home-home, with your team we will have a poor team on OOC perpetually. Keep talking about history Darell because that is all you have.
I am for playing your team if you can actually get to top 2-3 Big Sky. Without I have no interest in watching this game, it would as interesting as watching Weber State vs NDSU. Most Bison fans don't want to play your team, that includes some big donors. I am going to be surprised if this actually gets scheduled, no matter how much UND bends backward.

[darell1976]

I still recall the pics of the UND players hoisting the BUFFALO NICKLE at Grand Forks after the win in 2003. FCS needs this rivalry again! And good luck to both schools if and when it happens.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y178/darell1976/101803grabthenickelccrcopy.jpg (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/darell1976/media/101803grabthenickelccrcopy.jpg.html)

[NoDak 4 Ever]

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y178/darell1976/101803grabthenickelccrcopy.jpg (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/darell1976/media/101803grabthenickelccrcopy.jpg.html)

Keep it, we have plenty of these......

http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/236x/55/bf/f4/55bff43d745c92178843399927db0f99.jpg

[darell1976]

We have been pushed to h/h with weaker teams. However, we don't have to keep playing those home-home, with your team we will have a poor team on OOC perpetually. Keep talking about history Darell because that is all you have.
I am for playing your team if you can actually get to top 2-3 Big Sky. Without I have no interest in watching this game, it would as interesting as watching Weber State vs NDSU. Most Bison fans don't want to play your team, that includes some big donors. I am going to be surprised if this actually gets scheduled, no matter how much UND bends backward.

The same is on our side too. We know the game is never going to be scheduled, UND got over it with H/H with South Dakota State, South Dakota, Missouri State, Stony Brook, Montana. UND's schedule is doing just fine without you. Funny how you say UND has to be in the top 2-3 of the BSC. Because Montana and SDSU were at the top 2-3 of their conferences when they signed H/H with UND starting in 2010 where was NDSU? Coming off of a 3-8 2009 season, towards the bottom of the MVFC not even a blip of a NC team. They put together 9 wins in their first 2 years in the MVFC but still wouldn't schedule UND. So that we aren't at the same level as NDSU? BS!!! We are a DI team like anyone else. More and more UND fans don't want the game because of the BS excuses you guys throw out. Mplsbison covered some of them from Gene Taylor in that first post. So if they play fine, if not that is fine too. Faison is getting emails from UND fans telling him not to give in to this 2 games in Fargo and none in Grand Forks BS. What is more funny, you guys gave a 2-1 to South Dakota who also cut ties with you in 2004, so all we have to do is be on their same level...right?

[SDFS]

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2817947/billbored.gif

You look tired - go get some sleep. Hopefully you will be thinking more clearly in the morning. Good Night.

[centennial]

The same is on our side too. We know the game is never going to be scheduled, UND got over it with H/H with South Dakota State, South Dakota, Missouri State, Stony Brook, Montana. UND's schedule is doing just fine without you. Funny how you say UND has to be in the top 2-3 of the BSC. Because Montana and SDSU were at the top 2-3 of their conferences when they signed H/H with UND starting in 2010 where was NDSU? Coming off of a 3-8 2009 season, towards the bottom of the MVFC not even a blip of a NC team. They put together 9 wins in their first 2 years in the MVFC but still wouldn't schedule UND. So that we aren't at the same level as NDSU? BS!!! We are a DI team like anyone else. More and more UND fans don't want the game because of the BS excuses you guys throw out. Mplsbison covered some of them from Gene Taylor in that first post. So if they play fine, if not that is fine too. Faison is getting emails from UND fans telling him not to give in to this 2 games in Fargo and none in Grand Forks BS. What is more funny, you guys gave a 2-1 to South Dakota who also cut ties with you in 2004, so all we have to do is be on their same level...right?
Let's not play this game then. Write to your AD about how you don't want to play this game. Yes, we are making excuses not to play this game. That is not going to change. PS- You are NOT at the same level at NDSU. Would you agree that Alabama and Purdue are at the same level in Football?

[NoDak 4 Ever]

The same is on our side too. We know the game is never going to be scheduled, UND got over it with H/H with South Dakota State, South Dakota, Missouri State, Stony Brook, Montana. UND's schedule is doing just fine without you. Funny how you say UND has to be in the top 2-3 of the BSC. Because Montana and SDSU were at the top 2-3 of their conferences when they signed H/H with UND starting in 2010 where was NDSU? Coming off of a 3-8 2009 season, towards the bottom of the MVFC not even a blip of a NC team. They put together 9 wins in their first 2 years in the MVFC but still wouldn't schedule UND. So that we aren't at the same level as NDSU? BS!!! We are a DI team like anyone else. More and more UND fans don't want the game because of the BS excuses you guys throw out. Mplsbison covered some of them from Gene Taylor in that first post. So if they play fine, if not that is fine too. Faison is getting emails from UND fans telling him not to give in to this 2 games in Fargo and none in Grand Forks BS. What is more funny, you guys gave a 2-1 to South Dakota who also cut ties with you in 2004, so all we have to do is be on their same level...right?

The good, either take the guarantee games or go away. There is not a 1800 post thread about playing UND in the future on Bisonville. In fact, the only time it's mentioned is to make fun of Schlossman at the Herald or to say how much we don't care/don't want it.

[darell1976]

Let's not play this game then. Write to your AD about how you don't want to play this game. Yes, we are making excuses not to play this game. That is not going to change. PS- You are NOT at the same level at NDSU. Would you agree that Alabama and Purdue are at the same level in Football?

FBS, FBS, 2 P5 conferences....yes. Do you think NDSU is FBS, or NFL? You have the same schollies as us.

[centennial]

FBS, FBS, 2 P5 conferences....yes. Do you think NDSU is FBS, or NFL? You have the same schollies as us.
Yes and your point is? 2 teams don't become equal because they have equal scholies. Let me remind your team was 10th out of 14 in the Big Sky. The reason we keep throwing unreasonable demands is because we cannot say no due to political considerations. The fact that your school wants to fulfill these demands shows how desperate your school is to play us; shows you your place in the FCS world. You are no better than PV A&M in our books.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

FBS, FBS, 2 P5 conferences....yes. Do you think NDSU is FBS, or NFL? You have the same schollies as us.

If being literal then for sure it's true but I assume the disconnect is with "level of play" and perception and so forth.

Doesn't mean they are not already scheduling those sorts of teams not at their level and it has been admitted it is an excuse. I have said previously I can see why a lot of fans would not want to play UND after the pulling of the rug back when.

From what I've seen NDSU fans don't want or care about it nearly as much so at some point I'd think just letting it go is probably the answer since as you said what you'd have to do as a mea culpa is not worth it to UND then fair enough...leave it split.

It does look sort of like things may have been laid in place for the game but then things changed...as they do with time passage. Anyone think it's odd timing that the EWU announcement came around just as this die?

When an AD has a couple of games to fill in a schedule I'd bet they are much more malleable on the terms of a contract but once it gets down to that last game they might really want to do as well as they possibly can for their fans, school, etc.

[darell1976]

Yes and your point is? 2 teams don't become equal because they have equal scholies. Let me remind your team was 10th out of 14 in the Big Sky. The reason we keep throwing unreasonable demands is because we cannot say no due to political considerations. The fact that your school wants to fulfill these demands shows how desperate your school is to play us; shows you your place in the FCS world. You are no better than PV A&M in our books.

So when you signed a 2 for 1 with South Dakota who also cut ties with you in 2004...were they at your same level? The first game was 2010 so it was probably signed in 2009. You were at 6-5 in 08 and USD was 6-5 in the GWFC with only 1 of those wins vs a DI opponent. Ok I guess they were close to your level. Never mind.

[darell1976]

If being literal then for sure it's true but I assume the disconnect is with "level of play" and perception and so forth.

Doesn't mean they are not already scheduling those sorts of teams not at their level and it has been admitted it is an excuse. I have said previously I can see why a lot of fans would not want to play UND after the pulling of the rug back when.

From what I've seen NDSU fans don't want or care about it nearly as much so at some point I'd think just letting it go is probably the answer since as you said what you'd have to do as a mea culpa is not worth it to UND then fair enough...leave it split.

It does look sort of like things may have been laid in place for the game but then things changed...as they do with time passage. Anyone think it's odd timing that the EWU announcement came around just as this die?

When an AD has a couple of games to fill in a schedule I'd bet they are much more malleable on the terms of a contract but once it gets down to that last game they might really want to do as well as they possibly can for their fans, school, etc.

Did it occur to you UAH, that South Dakota cut ties in all sports with both South Dakota State and North Dakota State, as did UND, but NDSU decided to renew the series with South Dakota before SDSU did, however SDSU decided to renew the series with UND before NDSU. Now SDSU is forced to play USD due to conference play but UND has signed a H/H with both South Dakota teams, but can't with NDSU? Its a two way street...not a one way.

[centennial]

So when you signed a 2 for 1 with South Dakota who also cut ties with you in 2004...were they at your same level? The first game was 2010 so it was probably signed in 2009. You were at 6-5 in 08 and USD was 6-5 in the GWFC with only 1 of those wins vs a DI opponent. Ok I guess they were close to your level. Never mind.
We DON'T want to play you and will renege on contracts and promises till UND gets the idea. As for a football game, this is not an interesting game at all. I would rather play EWU, Montana, Cal Poly, Maine, SELA, Delaware etc instead of UND.

[MplsBison]

Please note: just because a couple grumpy old men patrol the internet so they can shout at anyone who will listen that NDSU doesn't want to play UND, doesn't make it true!

Fact of the matter is that NDSU would love to play UND as a non-conference series. Simply, they will not (and should not) sacrifice having six home games per year.

And they ideally would like to play a Big Ten or Big XII team every year, but as we're seeing that will start to not happen.

That leaves the door open for home and home games with Big Sky teams, which is obviously already happening (Montana, Weber St and Eastern Washington).

[darell1976]

We DON'T want to play you and will renege on contracts and promises till UND gets the idea. As for a football game, this is not an interesting game at all. I would rather play EWU, Montana, Cal Poly, Maine, SELA, Delaware etc instead of UND.

So glad Bison alum (former players) has gone on camera (When They Were Kings the UND/NDSU rivalry documentary) saying they want the game along with the media (Dom Izzo WDAY). You say most fans are against it...really? Did you poll everyone at NDSU, or the Fargodome during a Bison football game...I guess we will take your word for it.xrolleyesx

[centennial]

Please note: just because a couple grumpy old men patrol the internet so they can shout at anyone who will listen that NDSU doesn't want to play UND, doesn't make it true!

Fact of the matter is that NDSU would love to play UND as a non-conference series. Simply, they will not (and should not) sacrifice having six home games per year.

And they ideally would like to play a Big Ten or Big XII team every year, but as we're seeing that will start to not happen.

That leaves the door open for home and home games with Big Sky teams, which is obviously already happening (Montana, Weber St and Eastern Washington).
And you pleading for this game on AGS for 8 years has made it true? If NDSU alumni and donors actually wanted this game, don't you think it would have been played by now?

[MplsBison]

So glad Bison alum (former players) has gone on camera (When They Were Kings the UND/NDSU rivalry documentary) saying they want the game along with the media (Dom Izzo WDAY). You say most fans are against it...really? Did you poll everyone at NDSU, or the Fargodome during a Bison football game...I guess we will take your word for it.xrolleyesx

Honest to goodness -- I swear, honest to goodness -- it's like 15 or 20 guys who have been posting on Bisonville since the early 2000's.

They skulk around the internet and will fiercely rip into anyone or anything that even appears to promote the rivalry being renewed.

99.9% of NDSU alumni either have no opinion on the rivalry being renewed (the kids who enrolled after about the mid 2000's) or want the game again (everyone else still alive).


They'll say that every NDSU alumni they know doesn't want to play the game anymore either, but it's pure baloney.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Honest to goodness -- I swear, honest to goodness -- it's like 15 or 20 guys who have been posting on Bisonville since the early 2000's.

They skulk around the internet and will fiercely rip into anyone or anything that even appears to promote the rivalry being renewed.

99.9% of NDSU alumni either have no opinion on the rivalry being renewed (the kids who enrolled after about the mid 2000's) or want the game again (everyone else still alive).


They'll say that every NDSU alumni they know doesn't want to play the game anymore either, but it's pure baloney.

If that were the case, immense pressure would have been on GT to do it and it would have gotten done. There simply isn't the support from the NDSU alumni or fans to do it.

[TheRevSFA]

I find it funny that NDSU fans don't want play UND given their immense hardon for them.

I remember the NC game in 2012 where I saw a ton of "Sioux suck ****" shirts and even heard it chanted.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Did it occur to you UAH, that South Dakota cut ties in all sports with both South Dakota State and North Dakota State, as did UND, but NDSU decided to renew the series with South Dakota before SDSU did, however SDSU decided to renew the series with UND before NDSU. Now SDSU is forced to play USD due to conference play but UND has signed a H/H with both South Dakota teams, but can't with NDSU? Its a two way street...not a one way.

It does occur to me. It doesn't seem one bit out of place that the other in state institution would hold their own in state MORE accountable than one outside the state.

Proximity has a lot to do with hard feelings. If I were wronged by a friend I'd take it pretty hard. If I were wronged by my brother it would make the former seem palatable.

NDSU as a school doesn't appear to have a big stake in this game going off so there is nothing to argue about as fans of either team or the general public really. I don't know if you noticed but I am trying to gently steer this in a direction that doesn't have us wasting time with pm's etc.xthumbsupx

[ursus arctos horribilis]

If that were the case, immense pressure would have been on GT to do it and it would have gotten done. There simply isn't the support from the NDSU alumni or fans to do it.

You and cent have both said this and to be honest there just isn't a more reasonable resoponse than this one.

You both nailed it on the head there.xthumbsupx

[darell1976]

It does occur to me. It doesn't seem one bit out of place that the other in state institution would hold their own in state MORE accountable than one outside the state.

Proximity has a lot to do with hard feelings. If I were wronged by a friend I'd take it pretty hard. If I were wronged by my brother it would make the former seem palatable.

NDSU as a school doesn't appear to have a big stake in this game going off so there is nothing to argue about as fans of either team or the general public really. I don't know if you noticed but I am trying to gently steer this in a direction that doesn't have us wasting time with pm's etc.xthumbsupx

Understood.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

You and cent have both said this and to be honest there just isn't a more reasonable resoponse than this one.

You both nailed it on the head there.xthumbsupx

Just like you said, NDSU doesn't have a big stake in the game happening. The Sioux fans on their site try to bait us with talk of "scared" and all that crap but it's simply a lack of interest. Believe me, the Alumni have a ton of influence and if we wanted it, it would happen.

[darell1976]

Just like you said, NDSU doesn't have a big stake in the game happening. The Sioux fans on their site try to bait us with talk of "scared" and all that crap but it's simply a lack of interest. Believe me, the Alumni have a ton of influence and if we wanted it, it would happen.

No interest to play but a lot of interest to bash, chant, and bring us up in every thread on their board as The RevSFA even said, a Sioux Suck chant at the NC game. I think there is interest or else when it's brought up on the media either newspaper or tv everyone on both sides love to pick up a stone and throw it at the other.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

No interest to play but a lot of interest to bash, chant, and bring us up in every thread on their board as The RevSFA even said, a Sioux Suck chant at the NC game. I think there is interest or else when it's brought up on the media either newspaper or tv everyone on both sides love to pick up a stone and throw it at the other.

Not enough to give up a home game. As has been said, your AD is the only contemplating 2 below average paycheck games.

[darell1976]

Not enough to give up a home game. As has been said, your AD is the only contemplating 2 below average paycheck games.

But does is stop? UND plays at NDSU twice in Fargo where does it go from there? Only play in Fargo? Never play in Grand Forks. The Bison beat Oklahoma in the dance so you are above us in level of play should those games be only played in Fargo? Should volleyball and women's basketball be played in only Grand Forks since their level is higher than NDSU?

[Bisonator]

Way to troll Mplswioux.

The game may very well happen next year. The main reason it hasn't is it would end up being a never ending OCC game because people just can't let it go and that will hurt NDSU in the long run. Another reason it hasn't happened is because there's way to much baggage with the Sioux crying constantly about racism and other bull****. IMO its better left dead.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

But does is stop? UND plays at NDSU twice in Fargo where does it go from there? Only play in Fargo? Never play in Grand Forks. The Bison beat Oklahoma in the dance so you are above us in level of play should those games be only played in Fargo? Should volleyball and women's basketball be played in only Grand Forks since their level is higher than NDSU?

Then you just get in line like the rest of the paycheck games. I'm sure there are some SWAC or MEAC teams. Robert Morris might want to come back.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[McNeese75]

Obviously NDSU is too chicken **** to play UND at home. Simple enough and no need for a friggin 100 page debate xcoffeex

[Bisonator]

Obviously NDSU is too chicken **** to play UND at home. Simple enough and no need for a friggin 100 page debate xcoffeex

Obviously. Why do fans of other teams even care?

[IBleedYellow]

I'm going to post this from Hammersmith from Bisonville.


UNC triggered things by deciding to move up back around 2001 or 2002. NDSU decided to go as well, but wanted to bring the majority of the old NCC(D2 conference) along as well. The initial vote was UNC, NDSU, SDSU & USD in favor, with the rest of the conference opposed. UND was one of the leaders of the opposition. After the vote failed, UNC decided to move right away, while NDSU decided to wait a year to try and change minds or get others to strike out on their own with NDSU. Only SDSU agreed. The loss of three of the key NCC programs pretty much signed the death knell of the conference; it was just a matter of time.

UND was extremely unhappy over this; they had enjoyed the status of being the only DI program in the state(hockey only). NDSU needed games to fill out the transitional and independent schedules and asked UND to continue the games. UND let NDSU believe the games were going to continue(in all sports) for quite some time before scheduling a press conference to announce the upcoming schedules(UND had never done this in a press conference format before). At the press conference, UND announced that they would not schedule NDSU in any sport. This was the first NDSU had heard about the decision. UND claimed it was because playing NDSU would hurt UND when it came to DII football playoff selection. This was somewhat true, but that particular rule was about to be changed(and UND probably knew the change was coming) and it only applied to football. Other than spite, there was no valid reason for cancelling games in the other sports. Also, there were extremely negative comments going on behind the scenes from a couple coaches(not football). This created a serious poisoning of the well between the two athletic departments.

Fast forward a couple years. NDSU has had significant success while the NCC is circling the drain. UND decided to move up(and forces USD's hand in the process) and now needs games. They ask NDSU, and are politely told to go to hell. This continues until UND finishes their transition. At the same time, UND's president retires(he was against the DI move, but was forced into it). NDSU's president meets the new guy and the scheduling restriction is quickly lifted. Scheduling between the two schools starts in most everything but football and women's basketball. After the UND WBB coach retires, that game resumes as well.

So what about FB? Well, the primary reason is a problem in scheduling philosophy. NDSU wants six home games and an FBS game every year. You can't have that if you schedule a permanent rotation game with a non-conference school. So NDSU tried to bring in two FCS guarantee games every year. We were able to do that for awhile, but the teams keep asking for more and more money and we can't get quality opponents. So now we're interspersing an occasional H/H with a decent team(Mont, Weber, EWU). We try to keep the away games in the 12-game seasons whenever possible(Weber this year), but we'll give up an FBS game every once in a great while if necessary(next year).*

But the nice thing about teams like Weber, Montana or EWU is that the contracts are only for one set of games and no more. We may not play Weber for another 10 or 20 years after the game in Fargo. And no one will particularly care if that happens. But if we schedule a set of games with UND, there will be no stopping it. Even if the first contract is only for two or three games, it will effectively become a perpetual contract because it will be politically impossible to end the series again. That makes it a huge decision that NDSU has been unwilling to make.

The Big Sky has also played a small part in this. If they had added us a decade ago, or not added UND a few years back, then the two schools would be in the same conference and this wouldn't be an issue. But being in separate conferences plus the usual 11-game schedule in FCS make this series problematic to begin. Now other people have different views on the situation(and at least 10 of them have probably been offered in the time it took me to write this dissertation), but I think I've been as honest about the situation as I can. Personally, I'm against restarting the series because I feel what we would have to give up is greater than what we would gain. Others give elements of the equation different values and come up with the opposite conclusion. But it's not a clear-cut problem no matter what some people might think

[FargoBison]

Did it occur to you UAH, that South Dakota cut ties in all sports with both South Dakota State and North Dakota State, as did UND, but NDSU decided to renew the series with South Dakota before SDSU did, however SDSU decided to renew the series with UND before NDSU. Now SDSU is forced to play USD due to conference play but UND has signed a H/H with both South Dakota teams, but can't with NDSU? Its a two way street...not a one way.

USD signed a 2 for 1 with NDSU, first two games in Fargo. If UN_ wants to play us, that is all they need to do.

To get this game one side is going to have to give in and clearly NDSU isn't going to budge an inch and really NDSU doesn't need to. That said UN_'s coach Bubba knows that getting this game going again is good for him and I have no doubt he is in your AD's ear telling him to do whatever he needs to do to get it going again. Which is two games in Fargo before we'll commit to a road game.

[IBleedYellow]

TL;DR:
If a two game contract is started it will be impossible to stop the game, effectively hamstringing both teams with regards to scheduling no matter what happens.

[darell1976]

TL;DR:
If a two game contract is started it will be impossible to stop the game, effectively hamstringing both teams with regards to scheduling no matter what happens.

So why didn't anyone at NDSU, Bohl, Taylor, Brescanti (sp) come out and say we don't want to play UND all the time. Because I think you know the SBoHE and the legislature would have a field day in Bismarck with that. They tried once to pass legislation and I wouldn't be surprised if they do that again.

[Hammersmith]

I wish more people would realize that it's Forum Communications that is pulling all of our strings. For those who are following this from outside, ForumComm is one of the major media companies in our neck of the woods. Unlike all the other companies around here, ForumComm has properties in radio, TV, and newsprint.

Their local properties consist of:

Fargo Forum - the major Fargo newspaper
Grand Forks Herald - the major GF newspaper
WDAY-AM - a major news/sports radio station that covers the Red River Valley
WDAY-TV - the Fargo ABC affiliate
WDAZ-TV - the GF ABC affiliate(mostly a WDAY-TV repeater)


WDAY-AM is always either the NDSU or UND flagship radio station(NDSU's for 40 years; currently UND's). WDAY-TV used to have a TV contract for one school or the other, but dropped the ball a few years back and lost both. They have recently upgraded equipment and rumors are they will soon try for at least one of the TV contracts. And obviously the Forum and Herald are the major print outlets for the two university cities(and they can share articles and research with each other freely).

So guess who benefits the most from a resumption of the NDSU/UND FB game? Guess who can charge more for advertising space? Guess who is pushing the issue in the press? Here are the names of the most vocal game supporters:

Kevin Schepf - happens to be the sports editor for the Forum
Dom Izzo - happens to be the sports anchor for WDAY-TV
Wayne Nelson - happens to be the sports editor for the Herald
Tom Miller - happens to be the UND sports beat reporter for the Herald
Brad Schlossman - happens to be the UND hockey beat reporter for the Herald
Joel Heitkamp - only one that's not a ForumComm employee, but works for NDSU's flagship radio station


I wish we would stop acting like these guys' puppets. The resumption of the game benefits NDSU a tiny bit, UND a little more, and ForumComm a whole heck of a lot. And they will keep pushing their agenda until they get their way or there's some kind of major backlash(and I have no idea what form that could take).

[darell1976]

I wish more people would realize that it's Forum Communications that is pulling all of our strings. For those who are following this from outside, ForumComm is one of the major media companies in our neck of the woods. Unlike all the other companies around here, ForumComm has properties in radio, TV, and newsprint.

Their local properties consist of:

Fargo Forum - the major Fargo newspaper
Grand Forks Herald - the major GF newspaper
WDAY-AM - a major news/sports radio station that covers the Red River Valley
WDAY-TV - the Fargo ABC affiliate
WDAZ-TV - the GF ABC affiliate(mostly a WDAY-TV repeater)


WDAY-AM is always either the NDSU or UND flagship radio station(NDSU's for 40 years; currently UND's). WDAY-TV used to have a TV contract for one school or the other, but dropped the ball a few years back and lost both. They have recently upgraded equipment and rumors are they will soon try for at least one of the TV contracts. And obviously the Forum and Herald are the major print outlets for the two university cities(and they can share articles and research with each other freely).

So guess who benefits the most from a resumption of the NDSU/UND FB game? Guess who can charge more for advertising space? Guess who is pushing the issue in the press? Here are the names of the most vocal game supporters:

Kevin Schepf - happens to be the sports editor for the Forum
Dom Izzo - happens to be the sports anchor for WDAY-TV
Wayne Nelson - happens to be the sports editor for the Herald
Tom Miller - happens to be the UND sports beat reporter for the Herald
Brad Schlossman - happens to be the UND hockey beat reporter for the Herald
Joel Heitkamp - only one that's not a ForumComm employee, but works for NDSU's flagship radio station


I wish we would stop acting like these guys' puppets. The resumption of the game benefits NDSU a tiny bit, UND a little more, and ForumComm a whole heck of a lot. And they will keep pushing their agenda until they get their way or there's some kind of major backlash(and I have no idea what form that could take).

TV rights really hurt Forum since NDSU is with NBC affiliate KVLY and UND is with Midco Sports Network/ Fox College Sports. Only the paper and radio would help them so unless the game gets back to WDAY/WDAZ (ABC) they are going to gain very little from it.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I wish more people would realize that it's Forum Communications that is pulling all of our strings. For those who are following this from outside, ForumComm is one of the major media companies in our neck of the woods. Unlike all the other companies around here, ForumComm has properties in radio, TV, and newsprint.

Their local properties consist of:

Fargo Forum - the major Fargo newspaper
Grand Forks Herald - the major GF newspaper
WDAY-AM - a major news/sports radio station that covers the Red River Valley
WDAY-TV - the Fargo ABC affiliate
WDAZ-TV - the GF ABC affiliate(mostly a WDAY-TV repeater)


WDAY-AM is always either the NDSU or UND flagship radio station(NDSU's for 40 years; currently UND's). WDAY-TV used to have a TV contract for one school or the other, but dropped the ball a few years back and lost both. They have recently upgraded equipment and rumors are they will soon try for at least one of the TV contracts. And obviously the Forum and Herald are the major print outlets for the two university cities(and they can share articles and research with each other freely).

So guess who benefits the most from a resumption of the NDSU/UND FB game? Guess who can charge more for advertising space? Guess who is pushing the issue in the press? Here are the names of the most vocal game supporters:

Kevin Schepf - happens to be the sports editor for the Forum
Dom Izzo - happens to be the sports anchor for WDAY-TV
Wayne Nelson - happens to be the sports editor for the Herald
Tom Miller - happens to be the UND sports beat reporter for the Herald
Brad Schlossman - happens to be the UND hockey beat reporter for the Herald
Joel Heitkamp - only one that's not a ForumComm employee, but works for NDSU's flagship radio station


I wish we would stop acting like these guys' puppets. The resumption of the game benefits NDSU a tiny bit, UND a little more, and ForumComm a whole heck of a lot. And they will keep pushing their agenda until they get their way or there's some kind of major backlash(and I have no idea what form that could take).

That last line is one of the points I've made before as well. If it does benefit everyone (even if only a little) while helping out the local communities and even the state quite a bit then once the hurt feelings have been salved by UND jumping thorugh some hoops I just can't see why it would make sense not to do it.

OTOH it narrows down both schools options OOC. If they were conference mates then cool all is golden, no choice, etc. but since they are not and people would expect it to be an annual affair then as has been said it limits ya a whole lot...until it became a huge game again anyway.

[Hammersmith]

TV rights really hurt Forum since NDSU is with NBC affiliate KVLY and UND is with Midco Sports Network/ Fox College Sports. Only the paper and radio would help them so unless the game gets back to WDAY/WDAZ (ABC) they are going to gain very little from it.

TV would be nice(and they are going to try to get one of the contracts back), but you're wrong about which is more important. TV is a one-shot, four hour deal. Radio and newsprint will be a week or more of content. For at least the week leading up to the game, the sports sections of each newspaper will be filled with NDSU/UND content. That will boost sales, boost web clicks, and boost what the papers can charge for ad space. And the radio stations will be filled with NDSU/UND talk all week, boosting ratings on all the sports talk shows and allowing the station to charge more for the ad spots. The actual game broadcast will just be icing on the cake. The whole thing will be the gift that keeps on giving, year after year.

[Hammersmith]

That last line is one of the points I've made before as well. If it does benefit everyone (even if only a little) while helping out the local communities and even the state quite a bit then once the hurt feelings have been salved by UND jumping thorugh some hoops I just can't see why it would make sense not to do it.

OTOH it narrows down both schools options OOC. If they were conference mates then cool all is golden, no choice, etc. but since they are not and people would expect it to be an annual affair then as has been said it limits ya a whole lot...until it became a huge game again anyway.

Conference mates, or if FCS had a 12-game schedule every year. Either of those two things and the game would have restarted years ago. I should have been a bit more clear on that last line of mine: I didn't mean there was a net benefit for NDSU, just a gross benefit. When factoring in the scheduling concerns, I consider the game to be a net negative due to the restrictions on future schedules.

BTW, the post of mine that was quoted from BV was in response to a Montana fan asking how NDSU/UND got to this point.

[Red & Black]

This discussion reminds me of the Boise State/Idaho scheduling drama. Boise State won't go to the Kibbie Dome, which is understandable I suppose. The only way UND and NDSU might be playing in the near future is if UND can make it to the playoffs at some point.

[Bisonoline]

Rural America it is said - your word is your bond. I guess at NDSU it's all about the fine print and signatures - good to know.

You might want to send that sentiment to UND as well.

- - - Updated - - -


Oh we'll have a game, just not with you and life will continue. UND finished a h/h with SDSU without 2 games in Brookings, it was signed when NDSU was at the bottom of the MVFC and SDSU was towards the top(2009).

Then quit the pizzing and moaning.

[BisonFan02]

This discussion reminds me of the Boise State/Idaho scheduling drama. Boise State won't go to the Kibbie Dome, which is understandable I suppose. The only way UND and NDSU might be playing in the near future is if UND can make it to the playoffs at some point.

......or the two schools are in the same conference, not named the Big Sky. Otherwise, I don't want to see this game on the schedule...period! That includes two games just in Fargo. The political pressure to keep flogging this matchup isn't worth it and causes problems with OOC and home games.

[BisonFan02]

Translation: Game played (NDSU gets two home games....whatever scenario works) and the hornets nest is permanently stirred to keep grinding to schedule the game...likely to NDSUs scheduling detriment. Best solution would be all Dakotas in the same conference....but I won't hold my breath there.

[Bisonoline]

So when you signed a 2 for 1 with South Dakota who also cut ties with you in 2004...were they at your same level? The first game was 2010 so it was probably signed in 2009. You were at 6-5 in 08 and USD was 6-5 in the GWFC with only 1 of those wins vs a DI opponent. Ok I guess they were close to your level. Never mind.

You cannot equate what happened with other schools to the UND situation. I know you think its a talking point but it isnt. Reminds me of a child who get caught and then starts pointing the finger at others and says ---yeah but look what they did.

You guys made your bed. Now you have to sleep in it. Quit worrying whats going on in other peoples beds.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

......or the two schools are in the same conference, not named the Big Sky. Otherwise, I don't want to see this game on the schedule...period! That includes two games just in Fargo. The political pressure to keep flogging this matchup isn't worth it and causes problems with OOC and home games.

UND had 2 chances to be in the same conference, if not more. They chose to keep themselves separate every time. Same conference or GTFO

[Bisonoline]

But does is stop? UND plays at NDSU twice in Fargo where does it go from there? Only play in Fargo? Never play in Grand Forks. The Bison beat Oklahoma in the dance so you are above us in level of play should those games be only played in Fargo? Should volleyball and women's basketball be played in only Grand Forks since their level is higher than NDSU?

Now you are making excuses to not play the game because you dont know what will happen after we play? ReallY?

[SDFS]

Now you are making excuses to not play the game because you dont know what will happen after we play? ReallY?

Given the negotiations that have taken place to this point. It does seem responsible not to assume anything.

[Bisonoline]

Obviously NDSU is too chicken **** to play UND at home. Simple enough and no need for a friggin 100 page debate xcoffeex

xlolxxsmiley_wix

[SDFS]

I'm going to post this from Hammersmith from Bisonville.


UNC triggered things by deciding to move up back around 2001 or 2002. NDSU decided to go as well, but wanted to bring the majority of the old NCC(D2 conference) along as well. The initial vote was UNC, NDSU, SDSU & USD in favor, with the rest of the conference opposed. UND was one of the leaders of the opposition. After the vote failed, UNC decided to move right away, while NDSU decided to wait a year to try and change minds or get others to strike out on their own with NDSU. Only SDSU agreed. The loss of three of the key NCC programs pretty much signed the death knell of the conference; it was just a matter of time.

UND was extremely unhappy over this; they had enjoyed the status of being the only DI program in the state(hockey only). NDSU needed games to fill out the transitional and independent schedules and asked UND to continue the games. UND let NDSU believe the games were going to continue(in all sports) for quite some time before scheduling a press conference to announce the upcoming schedules(UND had never done this in a press conference format before). At the press conference, UND announced that they would not schedule NDSU in any sport. This was the first NDSU had heard about the decision. UND claimed it was because playing NDSU would hurt UND when it came to DII football playoff selection. This was somewhat true, but that particular rule was about to be changed(and UND probably knew the change was coming) and it only applied to football. Other than spite, there was no valid reason for cancelling games in the other sports. Also, there were extremely negative comments going on behind the scenes from a couple coaches(not football). This created a serious poisoning of the well between the two athletic departments.

Fast forward a couple years. NDSU has had significant success while the NCC is circling the drain. UND decided to move up(and forces USD's hand in the process) and now needs games. They ask NDSU, and are politely told to go to hell. This continues until UND finishes their transition. At the same time, UND's president retires(he was against the DI move, but was forced into it). NDSU's president meets the new guy and the scheduling restriction is quickly lifted. Scheduling between the two schools starts in most everything but football and women's basketball. After the UND WBB coach retires, that game resumes as well.

So what about FB? Well, the primary reason is a problem in scheduling philosophy. NDSU wants six home games and an FBS game every year. You can't have that if you schedule a permanent rotation game with a non-conference school. So NDSU tried to bring in two FCS guarantee games every year. We were able to do that for awhile, but the teams keep asking for more and more money and we can't get quality opponents. So now we're interspersing an occasional H/H with a decent team(Mont, Weber, EWU). We try to keep the away games in the 12-game seasons whenever possible(Weber this year), but we'll give up an FBS game every once in a great while if necessary(next year).*

But the nice thing about teams like Weber, Montana or EWU is that the contracts are only for one set of games and no more. We may not play Weber for another 10 or 20 years after the game in Fargo. And no one will particularly care if that happens. But if we schedule a set of games with UND, there will be no stopping it. Even if the first contract is only for two or three games, it will effectively become a perpetual contract because it will be politically impossible to end the series again. That makes it a huge decision that NDSU has been unwilling to make.

The Big Sky has also played a small part in this. If they had added us a decade ago, or not added UND a few years back, then the two schools would be in the same conference and this wouldn't be an issue. But being in separate conferences plus the usual 11-game schedule in FCS make this series problematic to begin. Now other people have different views on the situation(and at least 10 of them have probably been offered in the time it took me to write this dissertation), but I think I've been as honest about the situation as I can. Personally, I'm against restarting the series because I feel what we would have to give up is greater than what we would gain. Others give elements of the equation different values and come up with the opposite conclusion. But it's not a clear-cut problem no matter what some people might think

classic Bison narrative xrotatehx

[Bisonoline]

Given the negotiations that have taken place to this point. It does seem responsible not to assume anything.

Sign a contract. Not to difficult. But dont wait until the playing field changes to make a decision and then expect the same terms..
Faison was always behind the curve.

[SUPharmacist]

As far as I am concerned the next matchup will have to be playoffs. UND need not jump through any hoops to restart the series, and I can understand their hesitancy to do so. But, by the same token there is no reason to expect NDSU to make any effort around restarting the series, there was bad blood and NDSU can hold the grudge if they so choose. The limited number of football games a season makes it a unique scenario that can't be compared to match-ups in sports where there are more games.

[Bisonoline]

classic Bison narrative xrotatehx

Thats your rebuttal? Guess when you dont have anything of substance thats your go to line.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

classic Bison narrative xrotatehx

Look, it's always been your athletic department and your administration that has stood in the way of this rivalry. Your overblown sense of importance with your hockey team being "DI" and quixotic fight over your nickname cost you a chance to be with the rest of the Dakotas.

You love the Big Sky, we get it. Just enjoy that and leave us the **** alone.

[dewey]

Keep it, we have plenty of these......

http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/236x/55/bf/f4/55bff43d745c92178843399927db0f99.jpg

I like your photo but I think this one is better. If we are talking about trophies I would be happy to show off the 11 National Championship trophies versus the Nickel trophy which just shows that UN_ won the last game.

19426

Dewey

[dewey]

Look, it's always been your athletic department and your administration that has stood in the way of this rivalry. Your overblown sense of importance with your hockey team being "DI" and quixotic fight over your nickname cost you a chance to be with the rest of the Dakotas.

You love the Big Sky, we get it. Just enjoy that and leave us the **** alone.

100% agreed.

Dewey

[darell1976]

I like your photo but I think this one is better. If we are talking about trophies I would be happy to show off the 11 National Championship trophies versus your 1 National Championship trophy and the Nickel trophy which just shows that UN_ won the last game.

19426

Dewey

FIFY.

[344Johnson]

Not enough to give up a home game. As has been said, your AD is the only contemplating 2 below average paycheck games.


FIFY.

Northwestern won the last game against Notre Dame... But I'm not too sad about it

[TheRevSFA]

Look, it's always been your athletic department and your administration that has stood in the way of this rivalry. Your overblown sense of importance with your hockey team being "DI" and quixotic fight over your nickname cost you a chance to be with the rest of the Dakotas.

You love the Big Sky, we get it. Just enjoy that and leave us the **** alone.

Yet you'll still talk mad **** about them...

[centennial]

Yet you'll still talk mad **** about them...
We don't like them. Doesn't mean we have to play against them. Especially since we will have to make it an annual affair because of politics. I wouldn't put it past some UND grad in the state legislature to try to force us to play (its that bad).

[TheRevSFA]

We don't like them. Doesn't mean we have to play against them. Especially since we will have to make it an annual affair because of politics. I wouldn't put it past some UND grad in the state legislature to try to force us to play (its that bad).

That's not the point. You don't have to play them, but for ****'s sake don't talk mad **** about them or come **** all over a UND thread (not saying this one, but you've done it on others). Be the bigger school, show some class, and ignore them.

Y'all talking **** about them, or saying "Sioux suck ****" goes against the notion that they aren't a school that matters to you, in fact it says the opposite

[citdog]

That's not the point. You don't have to play them, but for ****'s sake don't talk mad **** about them or come **** all over a UND thread (not saying this one, but you've done it on others). Be the bigger school, show some class, and ignore them.

Y'all talking **** about them, or saying "Sioux suck ****" goes against the notion that they aren't a school that matters to you, in fact it says the opposite


http://tesla.liketelevision.com/liketelevision/images/lowrez/copper301.jpg

[Bisonoline]

That's not the point. You don't have to play them, but for ****'s sake don't talk mad **** about them or come **** all over a UND thread (not saying this one, but you've done it on others). Be the bigger school, show some class, and ignore them.

Y'all talking **** about them, or saying "Sioux suck ****" goes against the notion that they aren't a school that matters to you, in fact it says the opposite

Thats why its called a rivalry. xnodxxthumbsupx

[darell1976]

Thats why its called a rivalry. xnodxxthumbsupx

A rivalry....without a game

[TheRevSFA]

Thats why its called a rivalry. xnodxxthumbsupx

Shouldn't you play each other then? I mean if it's a true rivalry

[underdawg]

Wow only 73 miles between Grand Forks and Fargo--just work something out guys--this game should be played

[NoDak 4 Ever]

A rivalry....without a game

apply for membership in the MVFC and Summit. It's the best thing for all parties.

[SDFS]

Sign a contract. Not to difficult. But dont wait until the playing field changes to make a decision and then expect the same terms..
Faison was always behind the curve.

More of the Bison narrative - open record requests shows that a verbal agreement was reached and a contract was sent to NDSU and Taylor. Taylor did not sign the contract and changed the terms. "NDSU were your word means nothing".

[NoDak 4 Ever]

your word(s) means nothing".

FIFY

Do you think you're going to shame anybody into anything? Hurry up, you're late for church.

[BisonFan02]

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?157469-NDSU-EWU-Schedule-Home-Home-for-2016-2017

Gents....this game is actually on the schedule...how bout we discuss that and let this horse die? Just a thought.

[BisonFan02]

If you want to REALLY laugh at something....

http://www.inforum.com/content/letter-realistic-perspective-ndsu-bison-football

[centennial]

apply for membership in the MVFC and Summit. It's the best thing for all parties.
We went over this before-
http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?155651-NDSU-Athletic-Director-leaving-for-Iowa/page15
Quoting from a post I made-
UND would rank-
Football
11th on 11 in 2013, 9th on 11 in 2012, 6th on 11 in 2011.

In basketball-
7th on 9 in 2013, 7th on 10 in 2012, 8th on 11 in 2011 in the summit.

Ultimately, no reason to move. Big Sky gets as many or more football post season spots and Summit even though stronger only manages 1 big dance team.

[Drblankstare]

[QUOTE=BisonFan02;2127668]If you want to REALLY laugh at something....

http://www.inforum.com/content/letter-realistic-perspective-ndsu-bison-football[/QUOTE

Wow, I thought I was delusional. This guy might want to look out for the underpants gnomes, also.

[centennial]

[QUOTE=BisonFan02;2127668]If you want to REALLY laugh at something....

http://www.inforum.com/content/letter-realistic-perspective-ndsu-bison-football[/QUOTE

Wow, I thought I was delusional. This guy might want to look out for the underpants gnomes, also.


It’s amazing to me how things so obvious are not noticed by everyday observances. The Forum talks about the loss of 23 players from Bison football’s third-straight FCS title of a year ago, and yet none of the media outlets report the truth.

The truth is as follows: FCS football is so inferior on a national level that none of the teams, other than the teams of the Missouri Valley Conference, can hold a candle to the competition that North Dakota State University had during its days in Division II football.
That’s why the Bison made the move to 1-AA (now FCS), because it recognized way back then how mediocre 1-AA football was, compared to D-II at that time.
So because of that, I say if the Bison can win another title in the Missouri Valley, their only source of competition in the nation, they will also win another national title.
And that will continue until Bubba Schweigert can built University of North Dakota into a national title contender, and challenge NDSU for FCS supremacy. It’s something that will happen, and it’s something NDSU fans fear the most.



Nice

[NoDak 4 Ever]

We went over this before-
http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?155651-NDSU-Athletic-Director-leaving-for-Iowa/page15
Quoting from a post I made-
UND would rank-
Football
11th on 11 in 2013, 9th on 11 in 2012, 6th on 11 in 2011.

In basketball-
7th on 9 in 2013, 7th on 10 in 2012, 8th on 11 in 2011 in the summit.

Ultimately, no reason to move. Big Sky gets as many or more football post season spots and Summit even though stronger only manages 1 big dance team.

The same competitive result in both leagues but lower travel costs and closer/more familiar competition.

[centennial]

The same competitive result in both leagues but lower travel costs and closer/more familiar competition.
Not really-
Football
10th on 14- 2013
8th on 14- 2012
2nd on 5 in GW- 2011
Basketball
2nd on 11- 2013
3rd on 11- 2012
1st on 5 GW -2011

[SDFS]

Thats your rebuttal? Guess when you dont have anything of substance thats your go to line.

Actually, I have numerous comments about that post, but I don't want to create more thread drift. I guess that I could find another one of the old threads and bring it back to life.

[SDFS]

Look, it's always been your athletic department and your administration that has stood in the way of this rivalry. Your overblown sense of importance with your hockey team being "DI" and quixotic fight over your nickname cost you a chance to be with the rest of the Dakotas.

You love the Big Sky, we get it. Just enjoy that and leave us the **** alone.

Your not thinking clearly again, is it time for another nappy..

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Your not thinking clearly again, is it time for another nappy..

Go back to Siouxsports if you want to derp.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[LakesBizun]

I miss my UND friends. We should play every year.

[Bisonoline]

Shouldn't you play each other then? I mean if it's a true rivalry

Iowa and Iowa State didnt play each other for 44 years in football but played each other in all other sports. Even during the FB hiatus each school was compared against the other and the dislike was palpable. You dont need to play the game to be a rival. Ask Delaware and Delaware State. They didnt play each other for a very long time. Did they like each other?

[Bisonoline]

A rivalry....without a game

Thought you had me on ignore?:D

[Bisonoline]

More of the Bison narrative - open record requests shows that a verbal agreement was reached and a contract was sent to NDSU and Taylor. Taylor did not sign the contract and changed the terms. "NDSU were your word means nothing".

What was the timeline from the supposed verbal agreement and the contract? Also if you are not aware
contractual terms can and do change when the current playing field and circumstances change.

What I do find interesting is you guys doing all the whining. Plus you dont know what UND was doing behind the scenes.

But please keep expounding with the UND narrative.

[darell1976]

apply for membership in the MVFC and Summit. It's the best thing for all parties.

If Douple didn't worry about the Sioux nickname, UND would've gotten in at the same time South Dakota did, and if Patty V would've gave UND the same deal they gave South Dakota this thread would not be here. Fact is, UND had to find a home for football, and turned the SL down because it would have left its football team without a home. Big Sky gave UND an offer that they couldn't refuse. Also if Fullerton would have accepted NDSU and SDSU we wouldn't have this talk either.

[darell1976]

What was the timeline from the supposed verbal agreement and the contract?

http://www.bakkentoday.com/event/article/id/236635/publisher_ID/40/


Published May 16, 2012, 04:53 PM

On Wednesday, UND athletic director Brian Faison said the two rivals have tentative dates to renew the series beginning in Fargo in 2015 and then returning to Grand Forks in 2017.
“Until contracts are signed, it’s still tentative,” Faison said. “We’ll be sending them contract drafts. We’ll go ahead and get them in the mail to them the first of next week.”


“We’ve been having conversations for a while, and it’s good to be back at this point,” Faison said.
Faison’s comments Wednesday came in response to a story from WDAY-TV, which quoted North Dakota State athletic director Gene Taylor on the issue.
“I’ve talked to Brian (Faison). I’ve said, ‘Call me whenever you’re ready to move forward,’ ” Taylor told WDAY. “I think they’ve finally got into a league, finally got a schedule, so I think it’s a matter of sitting down and figuring it out, but their first opportunity is 2015.”
At this point, there’s no long-term agreement between the schools. Faison said he and Taylor have differing opinions on how often the rivals should meet. Faison would like to play the game every year, while Taylor does not.
“I respectfully disagree with Gene on (the matter of) playing every year,” Faison said. “It should be every year. This game will show everyone the value. I think this is a good way to get it started.”
The Sioux hold a 62-45-3 edge in the all-time series. The rivalry games stopped when the Bison made the move to Division I from the North Central Conference and Division II.


No mention of level of play, games only in Fargo and not Grand Forks, this was when UND was GWFC co-champs, and NDSU was coming off its first NC season.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

If Douple didn't worry about the Sioux nickname, UND would've gotten in at the same time South Dakota did, and if Patty V would've gave UND the same deal they gave South Dakota this thread would not be here. Fact is, UND had to find a home for football, and turned the SL down because it would have left its football team without a home. Big Sky gave UND an offer that they couldn't refuse. Also if Fullerton would have accepted NDSU and SDSU we wouldn't have this talk either.

Like I said. Enjoy the Big Sky.

[Bisonoline]

http://www.bakkentoday.com/event/article/id/236635/publisher_ID/40/


No mention of level of play, games only in Fargo and not Grand Forks, this was when UND was GWFC co-champs, and NDSU was coming off its first NC season.


Thank you for your post. When did Taylor notify Faison of any changes? Remember this quote---“Until contracts are signed, it’s still tentative,” Faison said.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

http://www.bakkentoday.com/event/article/id/236635/publisher_ID/40/


No mention of level of play, games only in Fargo and not Grand Forks, this was when UND was GWFC co-champs, and NDSU was coming off its first NC season.


All I see is "tentative" and "no contracts". Looks like if BF had given up on the every year, this game would already have been played.

[darell1976]

All I see is "tentative" and "no contracts". Looks like if BF had given up on the every year, this game would already have been played.

tentative means verbal, and not signed and legal. He said we are sending the contracts to Taylor the following week, what Taylor did to the contract, or what it actually detailed I think you have to either rely on emails or word of mouth. Its too bad the media didn't get a photocopy of the contract, it would've been interesting if the dates were 15,17 or if Faison slipped something else in there. But that is part of SDFS's argument of verbal. (at least I think that is what he meant)

[NoDak 4 Ever]

tentative means verbal, and not signed and legal. He said we are sending the contracts to Taylor the following week, what Taylor did to the contract, or what it actually detailed I think you have to either rely on emails or word of mouth. Its too bad the media didn't get a photocopy of the contract, it would've been interesting if the dates were 15,17 or if Faison slipped something else in there. But that is part of SDFS's argument of verbal. (at least I think that is what he meant)

Yeah, all bull**** anyway until one of these extensive open records requests actually turns up a contract. Wonder why that hasn't happened? Faison seems to be negotiating through the press as any amateur would. Could he be fabricating the contract as well?

[SDFS]

What was the timeline from the supposed verbal agreement and the contract? Also if you are not aware
contractual terms can and do change when the current playing field and circumstances change.

What I do find interesting is you guys doing all the whining. Plus you dont know what UND was doing behind the scenes.

But please keep expounding with the UND narrative.

Here is a quote from the article:

At that time, Taylor wrote in an e-mail to Faison: “Let’s focus on 2015 in Fargo on September 19th (that is the only date that works for us in 2015) and return to Grand Forks in 2017 on September 9th or 16th. Let me know which date you prefer in 2017. Once we finalize dates let’s discuss on how we want to put this out.”

Faison responded: “The dates of September 19th in Fargo in 2015 and September 9th in Grand Forks in 2017 will work for us in the renewal of football competition between UND and NDSU. I would suggest that we meet in person to work through the details (tickets, start times, media strategy for the announcement, etc.) and that we do this as expeditiously as possible.”

Here is a link to the article - http://www.grandforksherald.com/content/college-football-und-ndsu-rivalry-wont-be-returning-anytime-soon

I guess you can call it a narrative if you want.. again these are quotes from emails received via open records requests. Sorry it does not fit the BV narrative.. but if you post yours enough eventually someone will believe you.

[No_Skill]

tentative means verbal, and not signed and legal. He said we are sending the contracts to Taylor the following week, what Taylor did to the contract, or what it actually detailed I think you have to either rely on emails or word of mouth. Its too bad the media didn't get a photocopy of the contract, it would've been interesting if the dates were 15,17 or if Faison slipped something else in there. But that is part of SDFS's argument of verbal. (at least I think that is what he meant)

Why is it so hard to just wait until an actual physical contract is signed? We don't know anything...anything. Their are likely only two people who know all the details.

All this crap about verbal agreements and tentative contract is just that...crap. You only need to know one thing. There is no signed contract.

[citdog]

yawn........this whole saga has become quite boring. either play the damn game or don't. enough bandwidth has been wasted on the subject.

[No_Skill]

yawn........this whole saga has become quite boring. either play the damn game or don't. enough bandwidth has been wasted on the subject.


Amein

[Bisonoline]

Here is a quote from the article:

At that time, Taylor wrote in an e-mail to Faison: “Let’s focus on 2015 in Fargo on September 19th (that is the only date that works for us in 2015) and return to Grand Forks in 2017 on September 9th or 16th. Let me know which date you prefer in 2017. Once we finalize dates let’s discuss on how we want to put this out.”

Faison responded: “The dates of September 19th in Fargo in 2015 and September 9th in Grand Forks in 2017 will work for us in the renewal of football competition between UND and NDSU. I would suggest that we meet in person to work through the details (tickets, start times, media strategy for the announcement, etc.) and that we do this as expeditiously as possible.”

Here is a link to the article - http://www.grandforksherald.com/content/college-football-und-ndsu-rivalry-wont-be-returning-anytime-soon

I guess you can call it a narrative if you want.. again these are quotes from emails received via open records requests. Sorry it does not fit the BV narrative.. but if you post yours enough eventually someone will believe you.

And as your post shows they were supposed to get together to finalize other details. Obviously that didn't happen. So what's your beef?

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Why is it so hard to just wait until an actual physical contract is signed? We don't know anything...anything. Their are likely only two people who know all the details.

All this crap about verbal agreements and tentative contract is just that...crap. You only need to know one thing. There is no signed contract.

Excellent post and straight to it.

[BisonFan02]

I want some more home/homes with schools like McNeese and THE Citadel for selfish travel reasons :D

[citdog]

I want some more home/homes with schools like McNeese and THE Citadel for selfish travel reasons :D

I think we'd be open to it. Having VMI back as a conference game opens up a slot...........

[BisonFan02]

I think we'd be open to it. Having VMI back as a conference game opens up a slot...........

Make it happen! I need to make it down to Charleston.

[SDFS]

Sign a contract. Not to difficult. But dont wait until the playing field changes to make a decision and then expect the same terms..
Faison was always behind the curve.

Hey I am just trying to keep the record straight. You were blaming Faison for not signing the contract when the contract was on Taylors desk. Keep your facts straight and we be just fine my friend.

[Bisonator]

Hey I am just trying to keep the record straight. You were blaming Faison for not signing the contract when the contract was on Taylors desk. Keep your facts straight and we be just fine my friend.

WTF gave Faison the right to write up the contract? They may have settled on dates but you don't just write up a contract because dates are worked out there are other details that need to be settled as well. Your AD is either a flat out lier or doesn't really know how this **** works!

[Bisonoline]

Hey I am just trying to keep the record straight. You were blaming Faison for not signing the contract when the contract was on Taylors desk. Keep your facts straight and we be just fine my friend.

Where did I say that? I just went back and read my posts and I said no such thing.

[Theee Catrabbit]

I will say from a rejuvenated rivalry standpoint. I could take or leave USD, but since they landed (sensibly, I might add) in our conference, it's nice to get that easy win. I know it makes all the old timers feel good, so whatever. I think the Fighting Who? need to get to reality and get on their hands and knees and beg....beg. Like a dog, to be in the Missouri Valley and drop all this Big Sky nonsense. NDSU is right to stand their ground on this, they don't need the Who? for diddly.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Hey I am just trying to keep the record straight. You were blaming Faison for not signing the contract when the contract was on Taylors desk. Keep your facts straight and we be just fine my friend.

Where is this contract? No open records request has ever produced any such document.

[Hammersmith]

Here is a quote from the article:

At that time, Taylor wrote in an e-mail to Faison: “Let’s focus on 2015 in Fargo on September 19th (that is the only date that works for us in 2015) and return to Grand Forks in 2017 on September 9th or 16th. Let me know which date you prefer in 2017. Once we finalize dates let’s discuss on how we want to put this out.”

Faison responded: “The dates of September 19th in Fargo in 2015 and September 9th in Grand Forks in 2017 will work for us in the renewal of football competition between UND and NDSU. I would suggest that we meet in person to work through the details (tickets, start times, media strategy for the announcement, etc.) and that we do this as expeditiously as possible.”

Here is a link to the article - http://www.grandforksherald.com/content/college-football-und-ndsu-rivalry-wont-be-returning-anytime-soon

I guess you can call it a narrative if you want.. again these are quotes from emails received via open records requests. Sorry it does not fit the BV narrative.. but if you post yours enough eventually someone will believe you.

The timeline of this whole thing is really weird with some significant unexplained gaps.

April 2010: UND demands yearly game, NDSU demands every other year at most. (this was the case from fall 2008 to spring 2011)

April 2011: GT offers two-game Fargo/GF deal for 2015 & 2017. BF agrees in principle, mentions meeting in person to iron out details. Nothing happens. (this is the email exchange from above)

January 2012: NDSU wins first national championship.

May 2012: During an interview, GT answers a question on the topic by mentioning he's told BF to call him when he's ready to move forward. No mention is made of the conversation from a year ago or if the current deal was still on the table. During an interview the following day, BF said he was going to mail a contract to GT using the dates agreed to over a year before. No confirmation that BF followed through.

June 2012: NCAA sends NDSU's championship banner to UND by mistake. BF talks to media before he calls GT about it. NDSU finds out when the story appears on the GFH and WDAZ websites.

January 2013: NDSU wins second national championship.

January 2013: BF emails a contract to GT using the April 2011 terms. GT says he'll get back to him. Apparently never does.

January 2014: NDSU wins third national championship.

January 2014: BF once again emails the April 2011 contract. GT counteroffers both games in Fargo. BF declines.

February 2014: GT offers $190k for one game in Fargo or $380k for two games in Fargo. BF declines and offers to change the 2017 GF date to 2018, 2019 or 2020. GT declines.

May 2014: GT offers $125k for one game in Fargo for 2015. BF declines.

July 2014: Just before leaving for Iowa, GT informs BF that the single game deal is off the table. Only deal on table is the two-game Fargo deal for 2015 and 2018/19.

August 2014: BF tells media he's considering taking the deal on the table. (the article that started this thread)



Questions:

1. What happened between April 2011 and May 2012? That's almost a year of time. Did the two of them not follow through with the face to face meeting? Apparently there are no emails or Brad Schlossman's FOIA request would have turned them up. Did the deal fall apart due to details that couldn't be worked out? There are no answers in published media reports.

2. During the May 2012 exchange: Were BF & GT in contact regarding the issue before BF mailed the contract, or did it show up out of the blue? Did BF even follow through with sending the contract? There is no mention of a contract being sent by UND or received by NDSU close to the time period in subsequent FOIA requests.



Sources:
http://www.bakkentoday.com/event/article/id/236635/publisher_ID/40/
http://localnews.twcc.com/article/360b70d9695749a2ab772f7155d11999#.U-f3YBEg9dg
http://www.grandforksherald.com/content/und-football-faison-may-be-willing-sign-ndsu-rivalry-without-guarantee-game-gf
https://secure.forumcomm.com/?publisher_ID=1&article_id=274103
http://www.bakkentoday.com/event/article/id/34045/

[SDFS]

Sign a contract. Not to difficult. But dont wait until the playing field changes to make a decision and then expect the same terms..
Faison was always behind the curve.

Am I missing something.

[SDFS]

WTF gave Faison the right to write up the contract? They may have settled on dates but you don't just write up a contract because dates are worked out there are other details that need to be settled as well. Your AD is either a flat out lier or doesn't really know how this **** works!

I don't have full access to the GF article, so, I can not provide the quote from the article. But, I remember it saying that a contract was sent. It is the same thing when NDSU sent the infamous contract to Grand Forks to be signed that is legend. Not sure why you are so worked up about that..

[SDFS]

I will say from a rejuvenated rivalry standpoint. I could take or leave USD, but since they landed (sensibly, I might add) in our conference, it's nice to get that easy win. I know it makes all the old timers feel good, so whatever. I think the Fighting Who? need to get to reality and get on their hands and knees and beg....beg. Like a dog, to be in the Missouri Valley and drop all this Big Sky nonsense. NDSU is right to stand their ground on this, they don't need the Who? for diddly.

thanks good to know.

[Hammersmith]

I don't have full access to the GF article, so, I can not provide the quote from the article. But, I remember it saying that a contract was sent. It is the same thing when NDSU sent the infamous contract to Grand Forks to be signed that is legend. Not sure why you are so worked up about that..

The 2nd link from my previous post is the full article you are referring to.

[SDFS]

Where is this contract? No open records request has ever produced any such document.

As I stated above, I remember news accounts of a contract being sent. No idea were the contract is - more than likely in the garbage somewhere.

[Hammersmith]

As, I stated above, I remember news accounts of a contract being sent. No idea were the contract is - more than likely in the garbage somewhere.

There were news reports that a contract was going to be sent. There were no reports whether BF/UND ever followed through. Considering Schlossman pretty much blanketed both NDSU & UND with FOIA requests for that time period, you'd think he'd have noted it in one of his articles if it was sent or if there were emails referring to it.

The news account you're thinking of is the first link in my source list.


Actually, rereading that source ...

BF did not say he was going to send a finished contract, he said he was going to send contract drafts. That implies there was more negotiating to be done. Again, all news reports I know of considering that contract come from that source.

[SDFS]

There were news reports that a contract was going to be sent. There were no reports whether BF/UND ever followed through. Considering Schlossman pretty much blanketed both NDSU & UND with FOIA requests for that time period, you'd think he'd have noted it in one of his articles if it was sent or if there were emails referring to it.

The news account you're thinking of is the first link in my source list.


Thanks for the links, I am guessing that contracts were sent. Might be an open records request restrictions not sure how they work.

[SDFS]

There were news reports that a contract was going to be sent. There were no reports whether BF/UND ever followed through. Considering Schlossman pretty much blanketed both NDSU & UND with FOIA requests for that time period, you'd think he'd have noted it in one of his articles if it was sent or if there were emails referring to it.

The news account you're thinking of is the first link in my source list.


Actually, rereading that source ...

BF did not say he was going to send a finished contract, he said he was going to send contract drafts. That implies there was more negotiating to be done. Again, all news reports I know of considering that contract come from that source.

To be honest, I am not sure what can really go wrong in a home/home contract if both parties want to make it work. The only thing that I can think of is the buyout clause. But, GF is the second game and I don't see Faison letting that be much of a sticking point. Given the public black eye that would be for NDSU.

[Hammersmith]

To be honest, I am not sure what can really go wrong in a home/home contract if both parties want to make it work. The only thing that I can think of is the buyout clause. But, GF is the second game and I don't see Faison letting that be much of a sticking point. Given the public black eye that would be for NDSU.

Things that might need to be hammered out:

dates
start times
ticket allotments
handling media (announcement + TV rights)

You're correct in that most of these are not critical, but there would need to be some discussion between the draft contract and the final contract. This is the stuff that was supposed to be hammered out in the face to face meeting that apparently never happened after the April 2011 email exchange. If there were emails between GT & BF showing BF repeatedly asking for a meeting and GT saying no or not responding, you can be sure Schlossman would have mentioned it in one of his articles. Either for the April 2011 or May 2012 exchanges.

[FargoBison]

To be honest who cares about all of this meaningless scheduling minutia? GT is gone, a new AD will take his place. The past is in the past. Faison obviously realizes this and has softened his stance and is willing to play two games in Fargo first, I think he is doing this because it will make it easy for the new AD to get the game going again. He can go to the faction of Bison fans that don't want the game and tell them he got UND to give something up, it made the deal too good to pass up.

NDSU has all the leverage in the world right now. UND pretty much has to give something up if they want to get the game played again, so in my opinion BF is being smart. He is laying the groundwork to do just that and perhaps build a solid relationship with the new AD.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

To be honest, I am not sure what can really go wrong in a home/home contract if both parties want to make it work. The only thing that I can think of is the buyout clause. But, GF is the second game and I don't see Faison letting that be much of a sticking point. Given the public black eye that would be for NDSU.

Black eye? Do you realize how baller a move that would be? Whoever did that would be in the Bison HOF


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[IBleedYellow]

Here is the thing: These games can't be played every year. All of a sudden BOTH TEAMS limit themselves to being able to play different teams. There are 10-15 teams that I'd prefer to schedule Home and Homes with before locking NDSU into playing UND forever.

If you want to play us every year, bye bye Big Sky. Although I highly doubt the Valley would want you anyway.

[SDFS]

Black eye? Do you realize how baller a move that would be? Whoever did that would be in the Bison HOF


Ahhh, I suppose you are that guy. Just saying it would not look good to the general public ie North Dakota..

[SDFS]

Here is the thing: These games can't be played every year. All of a sudden BOTH TEAMS limit themselves to being able to play different teams. There are 10-15 teams that I'd prefer to schedule Home and Homes with before locking NDSU into playing UND forever.

If you want to play us every year, bye bye Big Sky. Although I highly doubt the Valley would want you anyway.

I believe that Faison has given on that point, hence the every other year contract.

[IBleedYellow]

I believe that Faison has given on that point, hence the every other year contract.

No. That's still bull. Every other year still isn't enough flexibility. Once this starts everyone will talk about how it HAS TO NEVER STOP AND ALWAYS BE PLAYED. Every other year will turn into every year really quickly. I'm thinking just do home and homes when they can fit the schedule after other resources have been exhausted. Even after that I still only see this as a bone being tossed to UN_.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Ahhh, I suppose you are that guy. Just saying it would not look good to the general public ie North Dakota..

Ah so you mean NDSU could somehow get **** on even more by North Dakota?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Hammerhead]

With BCS money games becoming very rare, I wouldn't mind playing UND every year or at least every other year. It can't be any worse than other non-conference games we've had.

[SDFS]

Things that might need to be hammered out:

dates
start times
ticket allotments
handling media (announcement + TV rights)

You're correct in that most of these are not critical, but there would need to be some discussion between the draft contract and the final contract. This is the stuff that was supposed to be hammered out in the face to face meeting that apparently never happened after the April 2011 email exchange. If there were emails between GT & BF showing BF repeatedly asking for a meeting and GT saying no or not responding, you can be sure Schlossman would have mentioned it in one of his articles. Either for the April 2011 or May 2012 exchanges.

I don't see anything that would hold this up in the contract negotiations. So, it was something else.. I don't see anything on the UND side that would hold this up. Something on the NDSU side changed (call me homer.. but I just don't see anything on the UND side that would put a stop to it). I don't believe that there were hard feelings between GT and BF. Maybe GT had a change of heart who knows. But, something or someone with clout put a stop to it because they were talking about how to announce the restarting of the series.

[SDFS]

Ah so you mean NDSU could somehow get **** on even more by North Dakota?


I never really understood this, NDSU is the Land Grant school in a largely rural state that is kind of a big deal - not sure how that is perceived as being punished.

[Bisonoline]

I don't see anything that would hold this up in the contract negotiations. So, it was something else.. I don't see anything on the UND side that would hold this up. Something on the NDSU side changed (call me homer.. but I just don't see anything on the UND side that would put a stop to it). I don't believe that there were hard feelings between GT and BF. Maybe GT had a change of heart who knows. But, something or someone with clout put a stop to it because they were talking about how to announce the restarting of the series.

From whats published no. Nobody knows if the drafts were what was agreed upon verbally. Nobody knows if Faison tried to change the terms after the fact. As posted there were some large gaps between communications.
As far as the relationship between the two it was not as smooth as you would like to think.

[SDFS]

No. That's still bull. Every other year still isn't enough flexibility. Once this starts everyone will talk about how it HAS TO NEVER STOP AND ALWAYS BE PLAYED. Every other year will turn into every year really quickly. I'm thinking just do home and homes when they can fit the schedule after other resources have been exhausted. Even after that I still only see this as a bone being tossed to UN_.

Well, the contract was just for 2015 and 2017 so I think it was just a way to test the waters. If the game starts again, I do believe that it will go to an even higher level than before. I do think there is a lot of money sitting the middle of that table for this game. Partly based on what others posted earlier today. But, companies are going to want to be a part of this game - think HyVee in Iowa.

[Bisonoline]

Well, the contract was just for 2015 and 2017 so I think it was just a way to test the waters. If the game starts again, I do believe that it will go to an even higher level than before. I do think there is a lot of money sitting the middle of that table for this game. Partly based on what others posted earlier today. But, companies are going to want to be a part of this game - think HyVee in Iowa.

Take the two games in Fargo to get it rolling. What money is left on the table? We already sell the dome out for every game.

[IBleedYellow]

Take the two games in Fargo to get it rolling. What money is left on the table? We already sell the dome out for every game.

That's what I was wondering, too? More money for who? NDSU or UN_? Again, the University that benefits from this is UN_, NDSU doesn't need UN_ for anything. Clearly we didn't, look what we did in D1 before they showed up.

[centennial]

Take the two games in Fargo to get it rolling. What money is left on the table? We already sell the dome out for every game.
I have a feeling we will have a moving goalpost for UND. Why? Not in our interest to play the game. Especially if we are forced into making a annual affair. It suits UND, for us it takes away a chance at FBS + 6 season home games. Humiliating UND and still not scheduling the game is getting old; wish they would take a hint.

[Bisonoline]

I have a feeling we will have a moving goalpost for UND. Why? Not in our interest to play the game. Especially if we are forced into making a annual affair. It suits UND, for us it takes away a chance at FBS + 6 season home games. Humiliating UND and still not scheduling the game is getting old; wish they would take a hint.

Theres a deal on the table. How long they going to wait? They need to get ahead of the curve this time.

[NDSUstudent]

I fall into the student population that started my college career in 2005 so I don't even care about the rivalry to be honest. Have the game, don't have the game. Would rather see us play Montana, Montana St, SHSU, Delaware, New Hampshire, etc. Teams that matter.

[MSUBobcat]

Take the two games in Fargo to get it rolling. What money is left on the table? We already sell the dome out for every game.

As someone who grew up in ND, I slogged through this thread (unfortunately). I won't get into the "terms were agreed to/no they weren't" argument. No contract was signed and that's all that matters. However, to say NDSU has no financial benefit from this game because they already sell out every game is a complete fallacy.

1. Higher ticket prices would be charged. Even $5 more is almost $100,000 and I'd guess they'd charge more than that.
2. Merchandise - people will buy annual NDSU-UND game shirts (not so much for your PVAMU or Delaware State games). I won't attempt to quantify it, but there would be money in them.
3. TV revenue - because the ad revenue for the TV station broadcasting the game would be much higher, NDSU could sign a contract with them to get more than they would from a weak sisters of the poor OOC team. Again, don't have information on what NDSU gets for a televised game, but I'd think they could get tens of thousands more than any other OOC.
4. Not paying a weak OOC team to come to Fargo for a beatdown. How much did PVAMU cost? Over $100,000 I'm sure.
5. Ad revenue - many businesses would love to have an ad in the game day program, and program sales themselves are another revenue source.
6. Local businesses benefit - I'm guessing a large majority of the fans at a typical Bison game are from the area, whereas a portion of the tickets would be allocated to UND. This means out of towners that need restaurants and hotels. Yes, due to the proximity, some will go home after the game, but many (some due to tailgating and the related DUI problemsxdrunkyx) will stay in town. I guarantee businesses in Bozeman and Missoula (only 3 hr drive) see more revenue during the Brawl than any other game, and both schools routinely sell out like NDSU. Some people without tickets go just for tailgating. There's a big revenue difference between fans from the area and visiting fans.

So, from what I can see, playing UND benefits NDSU by at least $250,000, conservatively, but I'd guess the number would be closer to $350-400k. And it also benefits the local businesses. So, yes, there is money left on the table. I don't know what NDSU's football budget is and, therefore, how significant that would be, but it's a fair amount of money for many schools.

[NDSUKurt]

I fall into the student population that started my college career in 2005 so I don't even care about the rivalry to be honest. Have the game, don't have the game. Would rather see us play Montana, Montana St, SHSU, Delaware, New Hampshire, etc. Teams that matter.


Same here - or close to it. I started in 2003 and ended in 2008, so I only experienced the last game (a loss by NDSU).

Personally, I don't want the game back unless it becomes a conference game or is in the playoffs. There is NO BENEFIT for NDSU to play this game whatsoever. As long as NDSU sells out the Fargodome and can still get teams to come to Fargo without breaking the bank, there is no reason for the game.

[JMUNJ08]

As someone who grew up in ND, I slogged through this thread (unfortunately). I won't get into the "terms were agreed to/no they weren't" argument. No contract was signed and that's all that matters. However, to say NDSU has no financial benefit from this game because they already sell out every game is a complete fallacy.

1. Higher ticket prices would be charged. Even $5 more is almost $100,000 and I'd guess they'd charge more than that.
2. Merchandise - people will buy annual NDSU-UND game shirts (not so much for your PVAMU or Delaware State games). I won't attempt to quantify it, but there would be money in them.
3. TV revenue - because the ad revenue for the TV station broadcasting the game would be much higher, NDSU could sign a contract with them to get more than they would from a weak sisters of the poor OOC team. Again, don't have information on what NDSU gets for a televised game, but I'd think they could get tens of thousands more than any other OOC.
4. Not paying a weak OOC team to come to Fargo for a beatdown. How much did PVAMU cost? Over $100,000 I'm sure.
5. Ad revenue - many businesses would love to have an ad in the game day program, and program sales themselves are another revenue source.
6. Local businesses benefit - I'm guessing a large majority of the fans at a typical Bison game are from the area, whereas a portion of the tickets would be allocated to UND. This means out of towners that need restaurants and hotels. Yes, due to the proximity, some will go home after the game, but many (some due to tailgating and the related DUI problemsxdrunkyx) will stay in town. I guarantee businesses in Bozeman and Missoula (only 3 hr drive) see more revenue during the Brawl than any other game, and both schools routinely sell out like NDSU. Some people without tickets go just for tailgating. There's a big revenue difference between fans from the area and visiting fans.

So, from what I can see, playing UND benefits NDSU by at least $250,000, conservatively, but I'd guess the number would be closer to $350-400k. And it also benefits the local businesses. So, yes, there is money left on the table. I don't know what NDSU's football budget is and, therefore, how significant that would be, but it's a fair amount of money for many schools.

As it was said in the classic movie Old School, "Oh... It... We... have no response. That was perfect."

I'm sure JMU & ODU are doing just fine with attendance but the interest from that rivalry across state in the only 2 years it was played was outstanding. ALUMNI interest was very high I know which does not happen for a Saint Francis game. We were sad to see them move up (and of course us not follow along...)

[Gil Dobie]

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y178/darell1976/101803grabthenickelccrcopy.jpg (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/darell1976/media/101803grabthenickelccrcopy.jpg.html)

Nice to see the bison side of the nickel showing and not the hostile and abusive side. :)

Doubt they can use the nickel anymore anyway.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

As it was said in the classic movie Old School, "Oh... It... We... have no response. That was perfect."

I'm sure JMU & ODU are doing just fine with attendance but the interest from that rivalry across state in the only 2 years it was played was outstanding. ALUMNI interest was very high I know which does not happen for a Saint Francis game. We were sad to see them move up (and of course us not follow along...)

While I remember the old series, I doubt it would have much real juice anyway. We used to be conference mates and that helped give us more of a commonality. Right now it would be just beating up on another mediocre Big Fluffy team.

[Gil Dobie]

99.9% of NDSU alumni either have no opinion on the rivalry being renewed (the kids who enrolled after about the mid 2000's) or want the game again (everyone else still alive).


If that numbers were true, the game would have been played around 2009.

[Gil Dobie]

If there is a game, it should be played at Target Field. Get UND alum, and Twins President Dave St Peter to champion the game at his location. There are enough Bison and former Sioux fans in the Twin Cities to fill the stadium.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

If there is a game, it should be played at Target Field. Get UND alum, and Twins President Dave St Peter to champion the game at his location. There are enough Bison and former Sioux fans in the Twin Cities to fill the stadium.

IF they wanted to pay NDSU $500,000 for it, I'd say ok.

[Gil Dobie]

IF they wanted to pay NDSU $500,000 for it, I'd say ok.

I say split the take. At $30 per ticket with 39,000 fans, that's $1.170,000. Pay the rent and let Target Field keep concessions.

[aces1180]

If there is a game, it should be played at Target Field. Get UND alum, and Twins President Dave St Peter to champion the game at his location. There are enough Bison and former Sioux fans in the Twin Cities to fill the stadium.


No thanks...2 games in Fargo or nothing.

[Mattymc727]

If there is a game, it should be played at Target Field. Get UND alum, and Twins President Dave St Peter to champion the game at his location. There are enough Bison and former Sioux fans in the Twin Cities to fill the stadium.

Thats it, have a North Dakota state rivalry game played....in a different state.....

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Thats it, have a North Dakota state rivalry game played....in a different state.....

They're both border cities. We wouldn't find anything wrong with that.

[MSUBobcat]

Thats it, have a North Dakota state rivalry game played....in a different state.....

Ummmm, 150th meeting between Lehigh and Lafayette (PA schools) to be played at Yankee stadium......

[BisonTru]

As someone who grew up in ND, I slogged through this thread (unfortunately). I won't get into the "terms were agreed to/no they weren't" argument. No contract was signed and that's all that matters. However, to say NDSU has no financial benefit from this game because they already sell out every game is a complete fallacy.

1. Higher ticket prices would be charged. Even $5 more is almost $100,000 and I'd guess they'd charge more than that.
2. Merchandise - people will buy annual NDSU-UND game shirts (not so much for your PVAMU or Delaware State games). I won't attempt to quantify it, but there would be money in them.
3. TV revenue - because the ad revenue for the TV station broadcasting the game would be much higher, NDSU could sign a contract with them to get more than they would from a weak sisters of the poor OOC team. Again, don't have information on what NDSU gets for a televised game, but I'd think they could get tens of thousands more than any other OOC.
4. Not paying a weak OOC team to come to Fargo for a beatdown. How much did PVAMU cost? Over $100,000 I'm sure.
5. Ad revenue - many businesses would love to have an ad in the game day program, and program sales themselves are another revenue source.
6. Local businesses benefit - I'm guessing a large majority of the fans at a typical Bison game are from the area, whereas a portion of the tickets would be allocated to UND. This means out of towners that need restaurants and hotels. Yes, due to the proximity, some will go home after the game, but many (some due to tailgating and the related DUI problemsxdrunkyx) will stay in town. I guarantee businesses in Bozeman and Missoula (only 3 hr drive) see more revenue during the Brawl than any other game, and both schools routinely sell out like NDSU. Some people without tickets go just for tailgating. There's a big revenue difference between fans from the area and visiting fans.

So, from what I can see, playing UND benefits NDSU by at least $250,000, conservatively, but I'd guess the number would be closer to $350-400k. And it also benefits the local businesses. So, yes, there is money left on the table. I don't know what NDSU's football budget is and, therefore, how significant that would be, but it's a fair amount of money for many schools.

I agree a game against UND is more lucrative than a game against "Cupcake U." But that is not what is on the table. In order to get a game with UND we must agree to a home and home. I'd venture to say conservatively NDSU can net 400,000 a game playing "Cupcake U." Let's say a game with UND would net 400,000 + 300,000 = 700,000. It would be more lucrative to schedule two games against "Cupcake U" than a home and home with UND. Now my numbers are a far cry from concrete and I would love to see someone's argument that a home and home with UND would generate more money than two weak OOC opponents.

The way I see it bringing in "Cupcake U" is financially better than home and homes. However, a home and home with top FCS teams will help bolster your playoff resume. The problem for UND is they're not a top FCS team.


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[Gil Dobie]

No thanks...2 games in Fargo or nothing.

If it's at Target Field, I have a chance to get tickets vs all the corporate bandwagon jumpers in Fargo.

[No_Skill]

If that numbers were true, the game would have been played around 2009.

Like my signature foretold?

[MSUBobcat]

I agree a game against UND is more lucrative than a game against "Cupcake U." But that is not what is on the table. In order to get a game with UND we must agree to a home and home. I'd venture to say conservatively NDSU can net 400,000 a game playing "Cupcake U." Let's say a game with UND would net 400,000 + 300,000 = 700,000. It would be more lucrative to schedule two games against "Cupcake U" than a home and home with UND. Now my numbers are a far cry from concrete and I would love to see someone's argument that a home and home with UND would generate more money than two weak OOC opponents.

The way I see it bringing in "Cupcake U" is financially better than home and homes. However, a home and home with top FCS teams will help bolster your playoff resume. The problem for UND is they're not a top FCS team.


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The hypothetical I postulated was in regards to the OP of giving NDSU 2 home games. The scenario you bring up is completely different. I believe a home-and-home agreement with UND would also be more lucrative for NDSU, and the local community, than with EWU or NDSU, though not as much as against "Cupcake U". However, like you say, it doesn't bolster your playoff resume. Then again, neither does a loss to a top FCS team....

[centennial]

As someone who grew up in ND, I slogged through this thread (unfortunately). I won't get into the "terms were agreed to/no they weren't" argument. No contract was signed and that's all that matters. However, to say NDSU has no financial benefit from this game because they already sell out every game is a complete fallacy.

1. Higher ticket prices would be charged. Even $5 more is almost $100,000 and I'd guess they'd charge more than that.
2. Merchandise - people will buy annual NDSU-UND game shirts (not so much for your PVAMU or Delaware State games). I won't attempt to quantify it, but there would be money in them.
3. TV revenue - because the ad revenue for the TV station broadcasting the game would be much higher, NDSU could sign a contract with them to get more than they would from a weak sisters of the poor OOC team. Again, don't have information on what NDSU gets for a televised game, but I'd think they could get tens of thousands more than any other OOC.
4. Not paying a weak OOC team to come to Fargo for a beatdown. How much did PVAMU cost? Over $100,000 I'm sure.
5. Ad revenue - many businesses would love to have an ad in the game day program, and program sales themselves are another revenue source.
6. Local businesses benefit - I'm guessing a large majority of the fans at a typical Bison game are from the area, whereas a portion of the tickets would be allocated to UND. This means out of towners that need restaurants and hotels. Yes, due to the proximity, some will go home after the game, but many (some due to tailgating and the related DUI problemsxdrunkyx) will stay in town. I guarantee businesses in Bozeman and Missoula (only 3 hr drive) see more revenue during the Brawl than any other game, and both schools routinely sell out like NDSU. Some people without tickets go just for tailgating. There's a big revenue difference between fans from the area and visiting fans.

So, from what I can see, playing UND benefits NDSU by at least $250,000, conservatively, but I'd guess the number would be closer to $350-400k. And it also benefits the local businesses. So, yes, there is money left on the table. I don't know what NDSU's football budget is and, therefore, how significant that would be, but it's a fair amount of money for many schools.
Most of these are just hypothetical. Is there history of increasing ticket prices for home games?
Most UND people will leave after they have played the game. Let's say 500 stay- Similar to most teams.
The local station that broadcasts the game might have a windfall. What about NDSU? Even if the cut is increased, how much of that do we make?
UND is not much better than PVAM. They might get beat down as well.
Since most people wouldn't stay- the local business benefit will be limited
Money- Selling apparel and advertisement within the FargoDome
All in all maybe $100-200k
Disadvantages-
We will be forced into a h-h with a weak team perpetually
We give them legitimacy in the state and they might get more ND recruits
We will have to sacrifice beating down on the FBS if this becomes a yearly game.
Really unless we can treat UND exactly like pvam we are at a huge disadvantage.
If we try to treat them like pvam, look for the ND legislature to try and remedy the whining
NDSU has no interest in making money for UND with the marginal or the negative benefits for us

[Bisonator]

Nobody has mention the other **** that comes with the game. The UND fans will inevitably wear their Sioux gear and the FTB chants but when the SSS chants come out NDSU is the big bad racists. Then we have to deal with the PC crowd. Its just not worth the headaches.

[darell1976]

Nobody has mention the other **** that comes with the game. The UND fans will inevitably wear their Sioux gear and the FTB chants but when the SSS chants come out NDSU is the big bad racists. Then we have to deal with the PC crowd. Its just not worth the headaches.

But it doesn't bother anyone at the other UND-NDSU games throughout the year. The Sioux gear and logo is deemed historical by the NCAA. They will always be a part of our history. What's funny is the SSS is chanted when UND isn't there, not once has I heard FTB being chanted when NDSU is not our opponent.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

But it doesn't bother anyone at the other UND-NDSU games throughout the year. The Sioux gear and logo is deemed historical by the NCAA. They will always be a part of our history. What's funny is the SSS is chanted when UND isn't there, not once has I heard FTB being chanted when NDSU is not our opponent.

Because it is our duty to remind everyone that the S do indeed SS.


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[DJKyR0]

Because it is our duty to remind everyone that the S do indeed SS.

For everyone playing at home, think Cerberus guarding the gate to hell. Probably not Cerberus's first choice in job but it's his duty and damned if he doesn't intend to do it to his utmost.

[NDSUSR]

UND trying to catch the coattails of NDSU. Pathetic.

[Mattymc727]

Ummmm, 150th meeting between Lehigh and Lafayette (PA schools) to be played at Yankee stadium......

True, but both those schools are small privates and mean little to the entire state of PA. NDSU and UND however....

[Bisonator]

True, but both those schools are small privates and mean little to the entire state of PA. NDSU and UND however....

I think the economics are bit over played. IMO bringing in other schools OOC has a bigger benefit to Fargo and GF areas then a game between the two. Fans would simply drive up or down for the game and then go back home after it. There wouldn't be anything in it for hotels, maybe a few bars and restaurants but probably not much if any more then any other school. NDSU already has the TV market and advertising. Sure they might make a bit more on those but would it be worth losing future OOC games or dealing with the negatives of the game?

Maybe if UND is willing to come to Fargo for 2 games and it works out OK then maybe a H/H can be worked out in the future. The onus is on UND in this deal not NDSU.

[JMUNJ08]

The one thing I see is NDSU fans seem to be on a rather HIGH horse. A number of championships in a row would do that. However, there are greater economic benefits when comparing apples to apples (i.e. 2 home games vs. UND to 2 OOC home games vs. Cupcake U) no matter how you try to view it in your rose colored glasses. How many people are REALLY coming to town and staying when these teams fly in? I bet not much different than a UND group who decides to get some beers and stay the night. But does the casual fan get amped for a local rival / perceived little brother or that cupcake school? In-state rivalries bring out fans of all types to these games even the lean years where there is a clear favorite. UVA/ VT is still very fierce in the state of Virginia even though the Cavaliers have not won in about a decade and there has been a clear shift since Beamer ball came in.

I will say that the only out of state team I can recall that generated in-state rivalry hype at JMU was App State when they came in 2008 (but a repeat champ we had on the ropes would do that). Otherwise, our fans want to see Richmond, W&M and ODU on Saturday and twice on Sunday. Even a 3+ hour drive to a decent OOC team in Lehigh has the masses hemming and hawing...

[NDSUstudent]

The one thing I see is NDSU fans seem to be on a rather HIGH horse. A number of championships in a row would do that. However, there are greater economic benefits when comparing apples to apples (i.e. 2 home games vs. UND to 2 OOC home games vs. Cupcake U) no matter how you try to view it in your rose colored glasses. How many people are REALLY coming to town and staying when these teams fly in? I bet not much different than a UND group who decides to get some beers and stay the night. But does the casual fan get amped for a local rival / perceived little brother or that cupcake school? In-state rivalries bring out fans of all types to these games even the lean years where there is a clear favorite. UVA/ VT is still very fierce in the state of Virginia even though the Cavaliers have not won in about a decade and there has been a clear shift since Beamer ball came in.

I will say that the only out of state team I can recall that generated in-state rivalry hype at JMU was App State when they came in 2008 (but a repeat champ we had on the ropes would do that). Otherwise, our fans want to see Richmond, W&M and ODU on Saturday and twice on Sunday. Even a 3+ hour drive to a decent OOC team in Lehigh has the masses hemming and hawing...

I am still not understanding this point. Would UND fans still come down to Fargo when the game is sold out? There are only so many people that can get into the Fargodome. When the visiting team does not use all their tickets they are reallocated to Bison fans who buy them anyways and most of those people are from out of town. I think the economic benefit is almost zero.

[Bisonator]

The one thing I see is NDSU fans seem to be on a rather HIGH horse. A number of championships in a row would do that. However, there are greater economic benefits when comparing apples to apples (i.e. 2 home games vs. UND to 2 OOC home games vs. Cupcake U) no matter how you try to view it in your rose colored glasses. How many people are REALLY coming to town and staying when these teams fly in? I bet not much different than a UND group who decides to get some beers and stay the night. But does the casual fan get amped for a local rival / perceived little brother or that cupcake school? In-state rivalries bring out fans of all types to these games even the lean years where there is a clear favorite. UVA/ VT is still very fierce in the state of Virginia even though the Cavaliers have not won in about a decade and there has been a clear shift since Beamer ball came in.

I will say that the only out of state team I can recall that generated in-state rivalry hype at JMU was App State when they came in 2008 (but a repeat champ we had on the ropes would do that). Otherwise, our fans want to see Richmond, W&M and ODU on Saturday and twice on Sunday. Even a 3+ hour drive to a decent OOC team in Lehigh has the masses hemming and hawing...

Hype doesn't pay the bills. The fact is it would end up as a never ending OOC game for perpetuity which hamstrings both teams. Once every 4-5 years is OK, every other year is not. FB pays the bills at NDSU, hockey does at UND. This situation hurts NDSU more then UND.

[JMUNJ08]

I am still not understanding this point. Would UND fans still come down to Fargo when the game is sold out? There are only so many people that can get into the Fargodome. When the visiting team does not use all their tickets they are reallocated to Bison fans who buy them anyways and most of those people are from out of town. I think the economic benefit is almost zero.

I bet you would charge more for a 'premium' game. Many pro and college teams do that to fill the stadium for unattractive match-ups and reap the extra $$$$ when someone enticing comes to town and tickets would be scarce.

Add just even $5 per ticket and you guys get an extra $100K...

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I am still not understanding this point. Would UND fans still come down to Fargo when the game is sold out? There are only so many people that can get into the Fargodome. When the visiting team does not use all their tickets they are reallocated to Bison fans who buy them anyways and most of those people are from out of town. I think the economic benefit is almost zero.

There is a cap on the economic benefit of a Bison game. No overnights at hotels because Grand Forks is less than an hour away. Wait till Montana this year, that will probably maximize the hype and show what a really good OOC game can get.

I will say UND would be pretty good for the hype but no more than EWU or Montana.

[NDSUstudent]

I bet you would charge more for a 'premium' game. Many pro and college teams do that to fill the stadium for unattractive match-ups and reap the extra $$$$ when someone enticing comes to town and tickets would be scarce.

Add just even $5 per ticket and you guys get an extra $100K...
$100k isn't worth that headache. Right now NDSU can charge what they want with a 5k+ season ticket waiting list.

[NDSUstudent]

There is a cap on the economic benefit of a Bison game. No overnights at hotels because Grand Forks is less than an hour away. Wait till Montana this year, that will probably maximize the hype and show what a really good OOC game can get.

I will say UND would be pretty good for the hype but no more than EWU or Montana.

More NDSU fans would rather see these quality opponents anyway.

[Gil Dobie]

The one thing I see is NDSU fans seem to be on a rather HIGH horse.

As a long-time Bison fan and having attended many NDSU/UND games, I would rather see a Montana or EWU vs a UND game at this point. UND has been on a high horse for a long time, now they have tasted the sour grapes of their own vineyards. UND is the school that refused to play NDSU for 3 years because NDSU was too rough, circa 1906-09. UND was the school that tried to shutter NDSU, circa 1930. UND was the school that tried to stop NDSU from moving from College to University status, circa 1960. UND was the school that tried to stop NDSU from moving to FCS and bad mouthed the move, predicted failure, and refused an original NDSU 4 game home and home contract. UND finally dropped their tails between their legs and slithered into FCS, begging to renew the rivalry. I just wanted to get a good dig in at my brothers to the north.

It takes time and eventually the games will come. The ideal situation would be if they were in the same conference.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Can I say that I was one of the proponents of the game? I'm old enough to remember this rivalry and everything pales in comparison. It's that kind of hatred that makes me love the UNDies twisting in the wind right now.

[dewey]

Can I say that I was one of the proponents of the game? I'm old enough to remember this rivalry and everything pales in comparison. It's that kind of hatred that makes me love the UNDies twisting in the wind right now.

Preach on brother!

I grew up in the Red River Valley and watched the Bison DOMINATE in the 80's and early 90's. Then watched UN_ decide they didn't want to jump up with NDSU and SDSU in 2004 and they refused to continue the rivalry. They (UN_) made their bed no they can lay in it.

I also love the FBS + 6 home games that have become part of the normal Bison football scheduling philosophy. I also am more than OK with NDSU playing a home and home with other FCS teams (Such as Weber St, MT, EWU) teams that we don't normally see. I don't want NDSU to be forced into an annual game that takes away the FBS game or 6 home games.

Dewey

[dewey]

More NDSU fans would rather see these quality opponents anyway.

Agreed. I am also happy with Weber State as it was able to fill a hole this year and give NDSU a home game next year. Plus Weber St fans won't be complaining about an annual home and home deal.

Dewey

[BisonBacker]

I don't understand your logic a verbal agreement was reached per open records requests. A contract was sent to NDSU, terms were changed. As I said, in small town main street North Dakota words have meaning (or they used to ... I guess the rural culture has changed your word means nothing - as I said it is good know. I will make those comments when I go back home and see how it goes. I know what my uncle is going say and we still have the homestead farm in my family).

That's a 2 way street. People have long memories on Main Street North Dakota.

[Lehigh'98]

Seems like the amount of hatred on each side would make for a very intense matchup, both on the field, in the stands and athletic offices. You just won't get that passion from a weber st game. $ and hurt feelings be damned, play the game.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

As a long-time Bison fan and having attended many NDSU/UND games, I would rather see a Montana or EWU vs a UND game at this point. UND has been on a high horse for a long time, now they have tasted the sour grapes of their own vineyards. UND is the school that refused to play NDSU for 3 years because NDSU was too rough, circa 1906-09. UND was the school that tried to shutter NDSU, circa 1930. UND was the school that tried to stop NDSU from moving from College to University status, circa 1960. UND was the school that tried to stop NDSU from moving to FCS and bad mouthed the move, predicted failure, and refused an original NDSU 4 game home and home contract. UND finally dropped their tails between their legs and slithered into FCS, begging to renew the rivalry. I just wanted to get a good dig in at my brothers to the north.

It takes time and eventually the games will come. The ideal situation would be if they were in the same conference.

This is a point that cannot be under-emphasized. UND was the ones that ****ed all this up, they can make it right.

[No_Skill]

Seems like the amount of hatred on each side would make for a very intense matchup, both on the field, in the stands and athletic offices. You just won't get that passion from a weber st game. $ and hurt feelings be damned, play the game.

You just remember that when it spills over to AGS. People complain now when threads turn into NDSU vs. UND pissing matches. You haven't seen a fraction of the crap that will come with this game.

Ursus will be a busy bear.

[Hammersmith]

I bet you would charge more for a 'premium' game. Many pro and college teams do that to fill the stadium for unattractive match-ups and reap the extra $$$$ when someone enticing comes to town and tickets would be scarce.

Add just even $5 per ticket and you guys get an extra $100K...

Bit of an illusion there. Let's say 19,000 capacity. 12,000 are season tickets. I don't think you raise the price on those due to a single game. You may raise the price from time to time, but you don't say, "well, that's $170 for the regular season ticket and an additional $10 because we're playing UND this year." And 4000 of the tickets go to the students. No additional money generated there. That leaves you with 3000 tickets left. A few hundred of those are held back for staff, families, and recruits, as well as tickets that go directly to the Fargodome for suites. You're left with at most 2500 single game tickets available to sell at the higher price(it's actually more like 1500). You'll make some money if you jack the price, but not as much as you suggest.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

You just remember that when it spills over to AGS. People complain now when threads turn into NDSU vs. UND pissing matches. You haven't seen a fraction of the crap that will come with this game.

Ursus will be a busy bear.

xlolx
Maybe for a minute but I got a way of dealing with those that can't start a thread properly in a smack forum.

It is a damn fine point Skill I'll give ya that.

[BisonBacker]

That's not the point. You don't have to play them, but for ****'s sake don't talk mad **** about them or come **** all over a UND thread (not saying this one, but you've done it on others). Be the bigger school, show some class, and ignore them.

Y'all talking **** about them, or saying "Sioux suck ****" goes against the notion that they aren't a school that matters to you, in fact it says the opposite

So a handful of people make a comment and that speaks for the entire group? Who knows if those who said it were even NDSU alum or students? Even if they were they are a minority. I've been going to games at the dome and I haven't heard that comment in years and I"m not deaf. I sure hope you have a wider view on the big picture because if you take a few peoples comments and apply it with one broad stroke to the entire fanbase then you are drinking some strong koolaid!

[darell1976]

Preach on brother!

I grew up in the Red River Valley and watched the Bison DOMINATE in the 80's and early 90's. Then watched UN_ decide they didn't want to jump up with NDSU and SDSU in 2004 and they refused to continue the rivalry. They (UN_) made their bed no they can lay in it.

I also love the FBS + 6 home games that have become part of the normal Bison football scheduling philosophy. I also am more than OK with NDSU playing a home and home with other FCS teams (Such as Weber St, MT, EWU) teams that we don't normally see. I don't want NDSU to be forced into an annual game that takes away the FBS game or 6 home games.

Dewey

So you are going to go 2 years with no FBS game (2015, 2017) if you want 6 home games? Or do you want the big money game and have 5 home games? No 12 games until 2019.

[Bisonator]

So you are going to go 2 years with no FBS game (2015, 2017) if you want 6 home games? Or do you want the big money game and have 5 home games? No 12 games until 2019.

To get home games against top tier FCS opponents sometimes you have to make sacrifices. I would prefer 6 home games and treat the UM/EWU like an FBS those years but I'm fine with whatever's best for NDSU.

[BisonBacker]

As someone who grew up in ND, I slogged through this thread (unfortunately). I won't get into the "terms were agreed to/no they weren't" argument. No contract was signed and that's all that matters. However, to say NDSU has no financial benefit from this game because they already sell out every game is a complete fallacy.

1. Higher ticket prices would be charged. Even $5 more is almost $100,000 and I'd guess they'd charge more than that.
2. Merchandise - people will buy annual NDSU-UND game shirts (not so much for your PVAMU or Delaware State games). I won't attempt to quantify it, but there would be money in them.
3. TV revenue - because the ad revenue for the TV station broadcasting the game would be much higher, NDSU could sign a contract with them to get more than they would from a weak sisters of the poor OOC team. Again, don't have information on what NDSU gets for a televised game, but I'd think they could get tens of thousands more than any other OOC.
4. Not paying a weak OOC team to come to Fargo for a beatdown. How much did PVAMU cost? Over $100,000 I'm sure.
5. Ad revenue - many businesses would love to have an ad in the game day program, and program sales themselves are another revenue source.
6. Local businesses benefit - I'm guessing a large majority of the fans at a typical Bison game are from the area, whereas a portion of the tickets would be allocated to UND. This means out of towners that need restaurants and hotels. Yes, due to the proximity, some will go home after the game, but many (some due to tailgating and the related DUI problemsxdrunkyx) will stay in town. I guarantee businesses in Bozeman and Missoula (only 3 hr drive) see more revenue during the Brawl than any other game, and both schools routinely sell out like NDSU. Some people without tickets go just for tailgating. There's a big revenue difference between fans from the area and visiting fans.

So, from what I can see, playing UND benefits NDSU by at least $250,000, conservatively, but I'd guess the number would be closer to $350-400k. And it also benefits the local businesses. So, yes, there is money left on the table. I don't know what NDSU's football budget is and, therefore, how significant that would be, but it's a fair amount of money for many schools.


You clearly are no math major. Nor are you very honest in the assessment of what NDSU would or would not gain from this debacle.

[BisonBacker]

Hype doesn't pay the bills. The fact is it would end up as a never ending OOC game for perpetuity which hamstrings both teams. Once every 4-5 years is OK, every other year is not. FB pays the bills at NDSU, hockey does at UND. This situation hurts NDSU more then UND.

Winner winner chicken dinner. We have someone who gets it! Thank you

[UNDColorado]

So it seems this thread just won't die. This is a very simple situation. No FCS team should ever sign a contract that requires said team to play another FCS team twice in their building. I am down for a home and home but if that can't get sorted out then the game shouldn't be played. Very simple. Flame on.

[BisonFan02]

So it seems this thread just won't die. This is a very simple situation. No FCS team should ever sign a contract that requires said team to play another FCS team twice in their building. I am down for a home and home but if that can't get sorted out then the game shouldn't be played. Very simple. Flame on.

Ever heard of "Make Me Move" pricing?

[NoDak 4 Ever]

So it seems this thread just won't die. This is a very simple situation. No FCS team should ever sign a contract that requires said team to play another FCS team twice in their building. I am down for a home and home but if that can't get sorted out then the game shouldn't be played. Very simple. Flame on.

Your board is the one with the 1500 post thread about playing the Bison. If your AD is dumb enough to do it, it will fall right in line with all the other blunders.

[dewey]

To get home games against top tier FCS opponents sometimes you have to make sacrifices. I would prefer 6 home games and treat the UM/EWU like an FBS those years but I'm fine with whatever's best for NDSU.

Agreed!

Dewey

[Silenoz]

If Idaho offered us a 2-and-1, and they're FBS mind you, I'd tell them to f#$k off

UND would be very stupid to agree to this

[ursus arctos horribilis]

If Idaho offered us a 2-and-1, and they're FBS mind you, I'd tell them to f#$k off

UND would be very stupid to agree to this

That's the point. Make them an offer they can't accept and move on separately.

As far as stature, fan support, money made on football etc. I'd say NDSU is well ahead of UND and I'd also say UM is well ahead of Idaho so I can't call that even Steven.:D

[BisonFan02]

That's the point. Make them an offer they can't accept and move on separately.

As far as stature, fan support, money made on football etc. I'd say NDSU is well ahead of UND and I'd also say UM is well ahead of Idaho so I can't call that even Steven.:D

Entity A has something Entity B wants....Entity A doesn't necessarily want to sell. Entity A puts out a price well above "market value" assuming a rejection of offer. However, if offer is accepted, Entity A benefits more than enough to bite the bullet and "sell".

EX:

Person has Bison season tickets.....plans to go to every game.....lists every ticket on Stubhub for 350 each...no intention to sell unless crazy offer.
Person puts home up for sale online...asks 300k for a 225k house. Ends up getting crazy offer and is compensated for it or is just well off alone.

[BisonFan02]

....and to add to it, I think 2 games in Fargo is too "cheap"...should be 3 with 2015, 18, and 19.

[darell1976]

That's the point. Make them an offer they can't accept and move on separately.

As far as stature, fan support, money made on football etc. I'd say NDSU is well ahead of UND and I'd also say UM is well ahead of Idaho so I can't call that even Steven.:D

So when NDSU goes in a rut of 6-5, 7-4 or maybe another 3-8 season, add fans not selling out the Fargodome (ex. 2010), now UND gets things turned around and starts battling Montana and EWU for the BSC title (basically go back to the playing days of 2000's where UND was on top of DII, and beating FCS teams like UNI, and Southern Utah), should then UND and NDSU get a home and home or should UND still bow down to NDSU? Those examples has happened. 1990's-2000's. NDSU went from top to bottom and UND went from bottom up.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

So when NDSU goes in a rut of 6-5, 7-4 or maybe another 3-8 season, add fans not selling out the Fargodome (ex. 2010), now UND gets things turned around and starts battling Montana and EWU for the BSC title (basically go back to the playing days of 2000's where UND was on top of DII, and beating FCS teams like UNI, and Southern Utah), should then UND and NDSU get a home and home or should UND still bow down to NDSU? Those examples has happened. 1990's-2000's. NDSU went from top to bottom and UND went from bottom up.

UND was only on top of DII because they drastically reduced the number of scholarships which is why NDSU jumped.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

So when NDSU goes in a rut of 6-5, 7-4 or maybe another 3-8 season, add fans not selling out the Fargodome (ex. 2010), now UND gets things turned around and starts battling Montana and EWU for the BSC title (basically go back to the playing days of 2000's where UND was on top of DII, and beating FCS teams like UNI, and Southern Utah), should then UND and NDSU get a home and home or should UND still bow down to NDSU? Those examples has happened. 1990's-2000's. NDSU went from top to bottom and UND went from bottom up.

It depends on the timing darell. If it were the first game played then yes I'd say if UND wanted to play it then they still might need to take a bit of a knee to get the game back but probably not nearly as much of a bow since tables had turned.

BUT, at this point in time UND's bargaining position is as weak as it's probably ever been. That's unfortunate but it appears to be a reality to me. Like it or not ending that series was a piss poor move for present circumstances. It may have made complete sense at the time, not even arguing that, but for future (now) situations the well is poisoned.

I'd really love to see an every other year thing going on for sure but right now it looks like a tough environment to get those H&H's done so UND gotta do what they gotta do or just walk away until a future time when leverage is more on UND's side.

[darell1976]

It depends on the timing darell. If it were the first game played then yes I'd say if UND wanted to play it then they still might need to take a bit of a knee to get the game back but probably not nearly as much of a bow since tables had turned.

BUT, at this point in time UND's bargaining position is as weak as it's probably ever been. That's unfortunate but it appears to be a reality to me. Like it or not ending that series was a piss poor move for present circumstances. It may have made complete sense at the time, not even arguing that, but for future (now) situations the well is poisoned.

I'd really love to see an every other year thing going on for sure but right now it looks like a tough environment to get those H&H's done so UND gotta do what they gotta do or just walk away until a future time when leverage is more on UND's side.

On the SS board fans agree on 1 game in Fargo only (to get the ball rolling), and if NDSU doesn't do a return game then move on, I agree too. Two games in Fargo with zero in Grand Forks...forget it. UND is doing well on scheduling their own H/H's, maybe they kept the 2015/17 open on pressure from media or outside influence (even high up alumni) also I would like to hear Bubba's comments on this especially if UND does go ahead with the 2 games in Fargo because that gives us a lot of seasons of 5 home games and fans don't like that.

[AmsterBison]

I bet NDSU will bite on the two-games-in-Fargo contract.

That said, if playing NDSU is really that important to UND, then UND should be banging on the door to get into the MVFC instead of worrying about these short-term fixes. They could also ease the pressure by winning some games so they can sell more tickets without NDSU's help.

The rub with UND has always been, they are never willing to make a deal that benefits both parties, they want a deal that only benefits then. NDSU gains nothing from scheduling UND because NDSU already sells out the season in minutes and gets a 50+ share on statewide TV broadcasts.

[darell1976]

UND was only on top of DII because they drastically reduced the number of scholarships which is why NDSU jumped.

Really? When NDSU finally beat UND in 1981 (to start the 12 year streak), UND was #1 in DII, and scholarships at both schools were the same. Just like when the NCAA reduced it from 45 to 36 both schools lost players. NDSU got great coaching while UND had Pat Behrns (Muss's earlier version), and Roger Thomas had to turn the program around to dethrone the mighty Herd.

[BisonTru]

If Idaho offered us a 2-and-1, and they're FBS mind you, I'd tell them to f#$k off

UND would be very stupid to agree to this

UND averages 8500 fans a game. Take that times a $25 ticket price = $212,500. Now pay a guarantee to bring in an opponent of $150,000. UND would be money ahead to take the cheap bus ride to Fargo and cash a guarantee from NDSU.

Just adding NDSU to their schedule is going to help recruiting.

Now, look at the upside. What if they win? That would be huge for both recruiting and playoff contention.

All in all, there's not a whole lot for NDSU to gain. NDSU sent UND a fair offer. If they can't see that. That's on them.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

[darell1976]

I bet NDSU will bite on the two-games-in-Fargo contract.

That said, if playing NDSU is really that important to UND, then UND should be banging on the door to get into the MVFC instead of worrying about these short-term fixes. They could also ease the pressure by winning some games so they can sell more tickets without NDSU's help.

The rub with UND has always been, they are never willing to make a deal that benefits both parties, they want a deal that only benefits then. NDSU gains nothing from scheduling UND because NDSU already sells out the season in minutes and gets a 50+ share on statewide TV broadcasts.

Wasn't like that about 4 years ago. Just like a new stadium when the hype is done, things get real very quickly (ex. Target Field).

[No_Skill]

Wasn't like that about 4 years ago. Just like a new stadium when the hype is done, things get real very quickly (ex. Target Field).

So talk to us then if you don't like the reality of the now.

[stevdock]

A scenario where this rivalry could stick would if the P5 only play each other. Then that gets rid of the big pay day and frees up a week. Both teams can still get 6 home games when they go to the other school.

If the pay day games do go away it will be interesting to see what the bigger FCS schools do. Will they go to 7 home games? Will they try and schedule more home and homes?

[Bisonator]

Wasn't like that about 4 years ago. Just like a new stadium when the hype is done, things get real very quickly (ex. Target Field).

No **** sherlock that's why a H/H was offered 4 years ago and Faison sat on it for 3 years. Now the dumb arse is in a different boat but thinks he should be getting the same deal. Too bad so sad. Either agree to the current terms or stop whining and wait for a better deal. Pretty damn simple.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Wasn't like that about 4 years ago. Just like a new stadium when the hype is done, things get real very quickly (ex. Target Field).

You apparently didn't get my pm?

Regardless, I am not sure why you are bringing what "could be" or what was? It has nothing to do with right now which is what we are all talking about I thought.

We're not betting on scheduling futures, we're dealing with today's price.

[darell1976]

You apparently didn't get my pm?

Regardless, I am not sure why you are bringing what "could be" or what was? It has nothing to do with right now which is what we are all talking about I thought.

We're not betting on scheduling futures, we're dealing with today's price.

I brought it up because of their fans and you bring up about sellouts and tv rights and using that as a bargaining tool along with the "level of play" and I am telling you I have seen this hype before and I have seen it die. (They didn't sellout their first home playoff game at the Fargodome in 2010 vs Robert Morris) so the hype didn't go in full swing until 2011 during the regular season with a near perfect record. So yeah I am thinking future and you are thinking now I guess we will see what happens after this season and next if the "hype continues".

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I brought it up because of their fans and you bring up about sellouts and tv rights and using that as a bargaining tool along with the "level of play" and I am telling you I have seen this hype before and I have seen it die. (They didn't sellout their first home playoff game at the Fargodome in 2010 vs Robert Morris) so the hype didn't go in full swing until 2011 during the regular season with a near perfect record. So yeah I am thinking future and you are thinking now I guess we will see what happens after this season and next if the "hype continues".

Enough of the subterfuge. it doesn't matter if it continues. This thread about this offer and how it stands right now.

Anyone here of a right mind will concede to you that things may change so let's not argue it.xthumbsupx

Those are just sly ways to get digs in so I suggest we move along as I actually have suggested several ways now so test if if you must but I've been clear on the matter.

[AmsterBison]

I brought it up because of their fans and you bring up about sellouts and tv rights and using that as a bargaining tool along with the "level of play" and I am telling you I have seen this hype before and I have seen it die. (They didn't sellout their first home playoff game at the Fargodome in 2010 vs Robert Morris) so the hype didn't go in full swing until 2011 during the regular season with a near perfect record. So yeah I am thinking future and you are thinking now I guess we will see what happens after this season and next if the "hype continues".

Well, you could be right. Maybe NDSU's attendance and TV share will drop. Sadly for you, reality makes for a stronger bargaining position than wishful thinking.

If you want to play NDSU: Take whatever deal you can get. Or join the MVFC. Take your pick. Waiting for UND supporters' predictions of doom for NDSU to come true is what put you guys behind the eight ball in the first place.

[Drblankstare]

Just take the deal, after UND wins their 3rd straight championship, you can force NDSU to play the next 20 games in Grand Forks. I hate this thread. Carry on

[centennial]

Another gem from ss. The funny thing is no one even questions this-

You have to think strategically about what is going on.

Idaho will not be invited back to the Sun Belt in 2015 (although they can play til 2017). The Big Sky will petition the NCAA to form a FBS league in late 2015. E Wash in adding on to their stadium in anticipation of FBS, so they need bigger FCS teams to fill it. EWU wants NDSU in the league.

NDSU thinks they will play UND eventually because they think they will be in an FBS Big Sky. NDSU just want to delay that series from starting. NDSU has to go to the Big Sky, as no other conference will offer them an FBS spot. No Colo can't go FBS, so NDSU knows that the Big Sky needs them for a travel partner with UND. Faison is offering NDSU a better deal, because he knows that an NDSU deal would get overturned by the league office.

Perhaps UND and the Big Sky should offer SDSU first, giving UND a travel partner. Let NDSU rot on the vine in FCS while UND and SDSU clean up on recruiting. Then NDSU will be crying to the media about UND being unfair. Give it a few years until recruiting dries up, and then NDSU can come aboard if they play the first two in GF.

[gotts]

LOL

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Hey guys, I'm not real big on bringing things/problems from other boards over here to join in the bull**** so if we could end that here and now I'd be real appreciative.

If you absolutely feel the need then start a smack thread for it or something but just not in here please.xthumbsupx

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Hey guys, I'm not real big on bringing things/problems from other boards over here to join in the bull**** so if we could end that here and now I'd be real appreciative.

If you absolutely feel the need then start a smack thread for it or something but just not in here please.xthumbsupx

come on, you have to admit....that is some grade A fantasizing.

[Hammersmith]

I brought it up because of their fans and you bring up about sellouts and tv rights and using that as a bargaining tool along with the "level of play" and I am telling you I have seen this hype before and I have seen it die. (They didn't sellout their first home playoff game at the Fargodome in 2010 vs Robert Morris) so the hype didn't go in full swing until 2011 during the regular season with a near perfect record. So yeah I am thinking future and you are thinking now I guess we will see what happens after this season and next if the "hype continues".

coughThanksgivingweekendcough

[ursus arctos horribilis]

come on, you have to admit....that is some grade A fantasizing.

I do admit it.

[FargoBison]

I brought it up because of their fans and you bring up about sellouts and tv rights and using that as a bargaining tool along with the "level of play" and I am telling you I have seen this hype before and I have seen it die. (They didn't sellout their first home playoff game at the Fargodome in 2010 vs Robert Morris) so the hype didn't go in full swing until 2011 during the regular season with a near perfect record. So yeah I am thinking future and you are thinking now I guess we will see what happens after this season and next if the "hype continues".

So darell...you would have your AD do what? Call up NDSU's future AD when he is hired in a month or so and tell him that his program is great right now and is selling out every game but in a few years you might suck so you should probably agree to a home and home with us right now...Yeah I can see that going well...

[darell1976]

So darell...you would have your AD do what? Call up NDSU's future AD when he is hired in a month or so and tell him that his program is great right now and is selling out every game but in a few years you might suck so you should probably agree to a home and home with us right now...Yeah I can see that going well...

Sorry, can't comment any further in this thread. You all carry on.

[centennial]

I do admit it.
I'll keep stuff from other sites out. Not trying to talk smack, just found it funny.

[Bisonoline]

I brought it up because of their fans and you bring up about sellouts and tv rights and using that as a bargaining tool along with the "level of play" and I am telling you I have seen this hype before and I have seen it die. (They didn't sellout their first home playoff game at the Fargodome in 2010 vs Robert Morris) so the hype didn't go in full swing until 2011 during the regular season with a near perfect record. So yeah I am thinking future and you are thinking now I guess we will see what happens after this season and next if the "hype continues".

What the hell difference does it make if we didnt sell out our first playoff game? It has nothing to do with the point at hand. Who care when the hype started? Is that even a talking point? Your a freaking idiot

[Gil Dobie]

coughThanksgivingweekendcough

There were a lot of games that didn't sellout pre-championship. Even saw a lot of Sioux logo gear at those games. Now that the sellouts and championships have begun, corporate North Dakota will help take care of sellouts in the near future. Thanksgiving or not, that game should have had more fans.

[344Johnson]

That 2010 team doesn't even deserve to be in the playoffs honestly.

[BisonBacker]

I brought it up because of their fans and you bring up about sellouts and tv rights and using that as a bargaining tool along with the "level of play" and I am telling you I have seen this hype before and I have seen it die. (They didn't sellout their first home playoff game at the Fargodome in 2010 vs Robert Morris) so the hype didn't go in full swing until 2011 during the regular season with a near perfect record. So yeah I am thinking future and you are thinking now I guess we will see what happens after this season and next if the "hype continues".

I get a laugh out of the comments you have regarding NDSU. You predict doom and gloom for NDSU as a way to prop up UN_ which is comical and points out the exact reason why many NDSU fans have no interest in seeing you guys ever again in Fargo. It's always been that way with susie fans. F-ck NDSU in any way possible to make UN_ look better. The knuckleheads with a whioux degree over in Bismarck in the state legislature have been doing it for decades and it continues even today. You piss and moan like a spoiled child who doesn't get his or her way. You don't like the deal we get it so let it be and move on as you apparently think you guys are doing just fine. We get that. If the reality of the situation wasn't this......

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t114/bri4878/und2_zpsadf98797.gif

as opposed to ours which is like this....

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t114/bri4878/IMG_20140104_160930_007_zpsd92b02e0.jpg

You could stop doing this....

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t114/bri4878/bf_zps9c296ac5.gif

[Bisonator]

That 2010 team doesn't even deserve to be in the playoffs honestly.

Yeah I don't think many saw the playoff run coming after that 3-0 loss at Missouri State to end the season.

[Gil Dobie]

That 2010 team doesn't even deserve to be in the playoffs honestly.

They proved they deserved it, going 2-1, taking the eventual champion into OT on the road.

[Yotes]

This game won't happen anytime soon, if ever, unless the two sides eventually meet in the playoffs. There is just no good reason for NDSU to schedule UND, and UND is too proud to lower themselves to any terms that NDSU might actually agree upon. NDSU is better off scheduling a H-H or even just a single home game with any other D-1 school than UND. The games bring nothing but bad blood, plus a trap game for NDSU in Grand Forks (see this year's MBB game). I don't blame NDSU for shooting the game down, and don't quite understand why so many UND fans want the game.

Why is this still a continuing debate? Is it just bored offseason talk?

[BisonBacker]

This game won't happen anytime soon, if ever, unless the two sides eventually meet in the playoffs. There is just no good reason for NDSU to schedule UND, and UND is too proud to lower themselves to any terms that NDSU might actually agree upon. NDSU is better off scheduling a H-H or even just a single home game with any other D-1 school than UND. The games bring nothing but bad blood, plus a trap game for NDSU in Grand Forks (see this year's MBB game). I don't blame NDSU for shooting the game down, and don't quite understand why so many UND fans want the game.

Why is this still a continuing debate? Is it just bored offseason talk?

Because they know the only way to become relevant in the State of ND in regards to college football is to get a game with NDSU. Some of their fans just can't let it go.

[BISON Thunder]

As far as I know, I do not believe AD's from either university have ever had a gun to their head to "get a deal done". Just as in everyday life decisions, offers' are made and sometimes changed...and then changed again, accepted or rejected by offerees'. I was upset when my brother rejected my offer to sell him my car at a discussed price, but understood variables changed for him. Likewise, I have not heard anyone from NDSU demanding UND play a football game. Considering, yes...demanding, no. If playing NDSU is so important to UND, why doesn't UND offer a deal NDSU cannot refuse? Something like a one game offer of $300,000 for SU to to play in Grand Forks? Then we all will truly learn if NDSU is making its scheduling decisions based on business or in spite. Otherwise, all of this rambling is crazy because either school has the right and indeed, obligation to say "no" to any offer it believes not to be in it's best interest...as both have been "guilty" of in the past.

[SDFS]

No **** sherlock that's why a H/H was offered 4 years ago and Faison sat on it for 3 years. Now the dumb arse is in a different boat but thinks he should be getting the same deal. Too bad so sad. Either agree to the current terms or stop whining and wait for a better deal. Pretty damn simple.

BF accepted the terms from GT via an email in April of 2011, please reference previous posts in this thread (links and quotes have been provided).

[BisonTru]

If playing NDSU is so important to UND, why doesn't UND offer a deal NDSU cannot refuse? Something like a one game offer of $300,000 for SU to to play in Grand Forks? Then we all will truly learn if NDSU is making its scheduling decisions based on business or in spite.

Why would NDSU accept that? They make more than that off a home game.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

BF accepted the terms from GT via an email in April of 2011, please reference previous posts in this thread (links and quotes have been provided).

Yet no contract has ever been found. Curious.

[BISON Thunder]

Why would NDSU accept that? They make more than that off a home game.
My point (obviously not made well) is for UND to make an offer to SU which is very appealing strategically and financially for NDSU...something so appealing it "should not refuse". Then we will see where the bear ****s...

[Bisonator]

Yet no contract has ever been found. Curious.

Must of got lost in the mail. Funny how it took Faison 3 years to follow up with Gene on it.xrolleyesx

[Bison pride]

2003 was last game, alot of changed since then. ndsu is very self sufficient & has dominated the fcs community since 2003 (give or take a year) if ndsu athletic dept or president are foolish enough to give up all the groudwork & success for an outdated rivalry then they should be fired. I dont know any ndsu fans that want to play this game & lets all face reality that since the noose was taken off the neck of ndsu by dropping this sick ugly (dont kid yourself thats what it was in the last years) rivalry, they succeeded. coincidence? i think yes.

Yotes said Why is this still a continuing debate? Is it just bored offseason talk?

because of the grand forks media thats why, they keep bringing this up over & over & over again, its their only hope of selling thier paper/radio, etc.

[BisonBacker]

2003 was last game, alot of changed since then. ndsu is very self sufficient & has dominated the fcs community since 2003 (give or take a year) if ndsu athletic dept or president are foolish enough to give up all the groudwork & success for an outdated rivalry then they should be fired. I dont know any ndsu fans that want to play this game & lets all face reality that since the noose was taken off the neck of ndsu by dropping this sick ugly (dont kid yourself thats what it was in the last years) rivalry, they succeeded. coincidence? i think yes.

Yotes said Why is this still a continuing debate? Is it just bored offseason talk?

because of the grand forks media thats why, they keep bringing this up over & over & over again, its their only hope of selling thier paper/radio, etc.

I admire the enthusiasm however you may want to put a little more thought into the posting. The last 3 years I agree but not since 2003 and the qualifier you threw in about less 1 or 2 years is wrong. I hope we continue on this path but as a Newbie you aren't going to be given much cred if any when posting like that. xpeacex
Edit. As far as the rest of the post I agree no need to play them now or ever IMHO!

[Bison pride]

when were the bad years since the games stopped? 2006 ndsu was #1 in the land? 2009 ndsu was 3-8. 04, 09 = 1 or 2 years does it not?

[BisonBacker]

when were the bad years since the games stopped? 2006 ndsu was #1 in the land? 2009 ndsu was 3-8. 04, 09 = 1 or 2 years does it not?
Since 2003 less 1 or 2 years had we dominated we'd have more than 3 trophy's sitting in the NDSU football offices. That's all I'm saying. We've been more than competitive but dominated? The last 3 years yes dominant. Since 2003 competitive yes, dominant...maybe you and I have a different definition of dominant.

[aces1180]

when were the bad years since the games stopped? 2006 ndsu was #1 in the land? 2009 ndsu was 3-8. 04, 09 = 1 or 2 years does it not?

El Chapo???

[Bisonator]

when were the bad years since the games stopped? 2006 ndsu was #1 in the land? 2009 ndsu was 3-8. 04, 09 = 1 or 2 years does it not?

2005, 2008, 2009, 2010 we were not at all dominate.

[Bisonator]

El Chapo???

That'd be my guess. Lakes/Chapo. What other aliases has he been using???xcoolx

[Hammersmith]

BF accepted the terms from GT via an email in April of 2011, please reference previous posts in this thread (links and quotes have been provided).

If you change one number in his post it becomes correct. Change '4 years ago' to '6 years ago' and it's completely true. GT's counteroffer of a biennial H/H sat around from 2008 to 2011 before BF was willing to consider it. A lot changed in that time.

[SDFS]

If you change one number in his post it becomes correct. Change '4 years ago' to '6 years ago' and it's completely true. GT's counteroffer of a biennial H/H sat around from 2008 to 2011 before BF was willing to consider it. A lot changed in that time.

Agreed, but I believe that JT send an email in April 2011 providing dates in 2015 and 2017 and BF replied agreeing to those dates. Then over the next 3 years nothing happened. News accounts include comments about a contract being sent to review. So, you are saying if they would have accepted the terms in 2008 (NOTE: The same terms as 2011) a contract would have been signed. I think we would be talking about a 6 year period of nothing happening. Because I don't believe JT had any intention of signing a home and home. He was simply stringing along the process.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Agreed, but I believe that JT send an email in April 2011 providing dates in 2015 and 2017 and BF replied agreeing to those dates. Then over the next 3 years nothing happened. News accounts include comments about a contract being sent to review. So, you are saying if they would have accepted the terms in 2008 (NOTE: The same terms as 2011) a contract would have been signed. I think we would be talking about a 6 year period of nothing happening. Because I don't believe JT had any intention of signing a home and home. He was simply stringing along the process.

if it got us to where we are today, BF begging for table scraps, then GT gets one more kudos from the Bison faithful.

[BisonTru]

Agreed, but I believe that JT send an email in April 2011 providing dates in 2015 and 2017 and BF replied agreeing to those dates. Then over the next 3 years nothing happened. News accounts include comments about a contract being sent to review. So, you are saying if they would have accepted the terms in 2008 (NOTE: The same terms as 2011) a contract would have been signed. I think we would be talking about a 6 year period of nothing happening. Because I don't believe JT had any intention of signing a home and home. He was simply stringing along the process.

A contract never got signed. They were close in 2011. Everything else is speculation. What we know is the deal was proposed by GT in '08. BF finally agreed in an email in '11. For unknown reasons the contract never got signed. Now the deal is off the table. If UND fans want to be upset with somebody it should be your own AD for not getting a contract signed when it was on the table.


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