Missouri Valley on a playoff push

[centennial]

Philadelphia, PA (SportsNetwork.com) - Anybody and everybody across the FCS embraced the expansion of the playoff field by four teams to 24 last year, knowing it would bring in more deserving qualifiers.

The conference that has been considered the strongest in the FCS likely never envisioned its playoff qualifiers would go in the other direction - dropping from three to two.

Quite simply, Missouri Valley Football Conference programs found this result to be unacceptable.

They were particularly vocal about their dissatisfaction on Tuesday during a preseason coaches conference call in which North Dakota State - the three-time defending FCS national champion - was announced as the team to beat again in the 10-team Missouri Valley. South Dakota State was picked second and Northern Iowa third in the 10-team conference's head coaches, media and sports information directors poll.

"Having only two teams in an expanded bracket is not OK," MVFC commissioner Patty Viverito said. "We have playoff-caliber teams that aren't being selected. That's not OK. I know the coaches are frustrated - rightfully so.

"I think we need to do everything we can to help the (playoff selection) committee understand and respect strength of schedule. There's no doubt that over the last several years the Valley has been the No. 1 FCS conference, and I think that if any team finishes in the top half of the Valley standings, that that should automatically put them into consideration for at-large selection."

In 2003, the Missouri Valley became the first FCS conference to have four playoff teams ... and that was when the playoff field was only 16 teams deep. The Valley also has sent three qualifiers in 2006, 2010 and 2012, and its 33-20 record in the playoffs over the past 10 seasons is better than any other conference.

But the strength of the Missouri Valley was also its downfall by late November last season. After NDSU (15-0, 8-0), which ran away from the field by three games, the other teams kept beating up on each other, and it created parity.

South Dakota State (9-5, 5-3) was the only other playoff qualifier, and it went on to win a road playoff game before bowing out.

But as deep as the Missouri Valley was, its next-best playoff possibilities had flaws on their resume:

- Youngstown State (8-4 including a loss to Michigan State, 5-3) ended the season by losing three straight conference games.

- Northern Iowa (7-5, 3-5) was as good as many FCS teams - beating FBS Iowa State, hammering McNeese State and edging Youngstown State - but it still had a sub-.500 record in conference games.

- Southern Illinois (7-5, 5-3) had only six wins over Division I competition despite tying for second place in the Missouri Valley.
http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=sportsnetwork&page=cfoot2/writers/infcshuddle/archive/haley_7_29_2014.htm
I still maintain Patty has not done well for MVFC. In my opinion there is nepotism and too much political correctness in the selection. Add to the NCAA rankings are ****. At least MVFC is creating a stink about the whole situation.

[Bisonator]

That 33-20 record in the playoffs is buoyed by NDSU's 14-1 record. Take us out and it's 19-19. Until the other teams start making more noise then a win and loss it's probably not going to change. That said the Valley should have had 3-4 teams in last year. It is what it is, win your frickin games and leave no doubt.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Ya, win or quit bitching.

Youngstown State was a perfect example last year. Beat NDSU, SDSU or UNI and you are in.

Same with Missouri State. Win your OCC games. They were 5-3 in the conference....pretty darn good but lost to Northwestern State, Murray State and C Arkansas in OCC games.

The Valley, IMO, does deserve more playoffs teams but take care of business during the season.

[Professor Chaos]

That 33-20 record in the playoffs is buoyed by NDSU's 14-1 record. Take us out and it's 19-19. Until the other teams start making more noise then a win and loss it's probably not going to change. That said the Valley should have had 3-4 teams in last year. It is what it is, win your frickin games and leave no doubt.
That hasn't stopped the playoff committee in previous years from continuing to give at large bids to the MEAC (who hasn't wont a playoff game in this century I think) and the OVC (who until this past year had a playoff losing streak of around 20 games).

[dewey]

Ya, win or quit bitching.

Youngstown State was a perfect example last year. Beat NDSU, SDSU or UNI and you are in.

Same with Missouri State. Win your OCC games. They were 5-3 in the conference....pretty darn good but lost to Northwestern State, Murray State and C Arkansas in OCC games.

The Valley, IMO, does deserve more playoffs teams but take care of business during the season.

100% agreed. If UNI wins any of the 5 conference games they lost they were almost a lock. If the MVFC teams have a good OOC win loss record and a good conference record (.500 or better) they get in.

Dewey

[centennial]

Ya, win or quit bitching.

Youngstown State was a perfect example last year. Beat NDSU, SDSU or UNI and you are in.

Same with Missouri State. Win your OCC games. They were 5-3 in the conference....pretty darn good but lost to Northwestern State, Murray State and C Arkansas in OCC games.

The Valley, IMO, does deserve more playoffs teams but take care of business during the season.
I don't disagree with this in principle, however are you telling me there weren't 4-6 teams YSU, UNI or MSU wouldn't take out. The sad thing was that they didn't have better records, and were rated lower on most computer ratings.

[citdog]

This happens in the GOOD conferences EVERY year. The patsy league people just don't get it.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

I don't disagree with this in principle, however are you telling me there weren't 4-6 teams YSU, UNI or MSU wouldn't take out. The sad thing was that they didn't have better records, and were rated lower on most computer ratings.


Ya, YSU, UNI or SIU probably could have beat many of the playoff teams but they need to take care of business during the regular season. Don't lose 3 OCC games, don't lose 5 games in a row, don't lose 3 games to end the season.....

YSU would have been in if they won of their last 3 games. UNI is in if they win one of their OT games and Missouri State probably would have been in if they won their 3 OCC games.

Yes, I agree that we beat each other up in the conference.

I think this year the Valley gets 3 teams in and maybe a 4th.

[underdawg]

ah, SIU only had two OCC losses one to FBS Illinois in the last few seconds and one to number two rated EIU in double overtime, plus won 3-4 to end season, plus was rated in most computer polls in the top 15 but still didn't make it. Let's see how the Bison fans feel if they Are in the same situation in 2014

[clenz]

Ya, YSU, UNI or SIU probably could have beat many of the playoff teams but they need to take care of business during the regular season. Don't lose 3 OCC games, don't lose 5 games in a row, don't lose 3 games to end the season.....

YSU would have been in if they won of their last 3 games. UNI is in if they win one of their OT games and Missouri State probably would have been in if they won their 3 OCC games.

Yes, I agree that we beat each other up in the conference.

I think this year the Valley gets 3 teams in and maybe a 4th.

Don't be stupid.


We went through this last selection week.

1. MVFC needs to win OOC games to get an AL. YSU was 3-1 OOC and missed the playoffs....UNI was 4-0 with an FBS win and a top 10 win and missed the playoffs. SIU was 2-2 so borderline on that one. MSU had a poor OOC so they missed the boat.

2. MVFC teams need to win in conference to get a bid. YSU was 5-3 in conference, SIU was 5-3 in conference, MSU was 5-3 in conference with wins over SDSU and SIU, played NDSU closer than anyone other than UNI. UNI struggled to find a rhythm quick enough to completely overcome the injuries and falls short on this one.

3. Teams need to finish strong. MSU won 4 of it's last 5 (only loss was UNI..who...), UNI won their final 3 including a top 25 win over YSU. SIU won 3 of last 4 (and last two). Only loss was to MSU who won 4 of 5 to end year. YSU finished 0-3 with a 2 point loss at UNI, SDSU and NDSU...not exactly an easy finish.



So, yes, teams need to win to remove all doubt. The reality of the situation is that the MVFC has 4 teams on a yearly basis that are deserving of the playoffs and because of the unbalanced scheduling they will almost always play each other (sans SIU/SDSU this year which could cost one of them a playoff spot...but if they had that loss that'd be used against them as well). The last 2 years UNI missed Indiana State - an automatic W, while playing NDSU, SDSU, MSU, and SIU all on the road last season.

In the MVFC you're going to get teams to check 2 of the three boxes, but to get 3 of 3 is going to take being the champion or some REAL separation between the top 2/3 and the rest of the league.


I guess we can call that standard fair, however, if the same rules for other conferences are applied the same then it doesn't really matter what the MVFC does...does it? How else do you explain the fact that OVC and MEAC consistently get as many/more teams as the MVFC?

[clenz]

ah, SIU only had two OCC losses one to FBS Illinois in the last few seconds and one to number two rated EIU in double overtime, plus won 3-4 to end season, plus was rated in most computer polls in the top 15 but still didn't make it. Let's see how the Bison fans feel if they Are in the same situation in 2014

Exactly like I just laid out.

The computers like the MVFC, but to get an MVFC team that finishes winning at least 3 of 4, over .500 in conference, and won 75-100% of their OOC games isn't going to happen other than the champion. It just isn't going to happen as long as the MVFC continues to keep UNI, NDSU, SIU, and SDSU on this current rotation of playing everyone else away or at home all in the same season. We also know that UNI, NDSU, and SDSU likely will amost never miss each other on the rotation because YSU/ISUR/ISUB/SIU needing to be promised they won't have to travel west more than once per year.

[centennial]

Exactly like I just laid out.

The computers like the MVFC, but to get an MVFC team that finishes winning at least 3 of 4, over .500 in conference, and won 75-100% of their OOC games isn't going to happen other than the champion. It just isn't going to happen as long as the MVFC continues to keep UNI, NDSU, SIU, and SDSU on this current rotation of playing everyone else away or at home all in the same season. We also know that UNI, NDSU, and SDSU likely will amost never miss each other on the rotation because YSU/ISUR/ISUB/SIU needing to be promised they won't have to travel west more than once per year.
We should just do what all the other conferences do. Schedule one less in conference game and bring a patsy OOC. This way we can inflate records like the other conferences, or we could add a couple of bad teams to the conference.

[citdog]

We should just do what all the other conferences do. Schedule one less in conference game and bring a patsy OOC. This way we can inflate records like the other conferences, or we could add a couple of bad teams to the conference.

Not sure what you mean by "all the other conferences". In the SoCon you play everyone every year.

[Green26]

Those "good" conference teams need to win another game or two. While I agree the conference "should" have had more playoff teams, I can completely understand why the committee didn't select them. Jeez, the article shows exactly why the bubble teams didn't get in. Stop complaining and take care of business.

[clenz]

Those "good" conference teams need to win another game or two. While I agree the conference "should" have had more playoff teams, I can completely understand why the committee didn't select them. Jeez, the article shows exactly why the bubble teams didn't get in. Stop complaining and take care of business.
Don't entirely disagree, but when we see those standards enforced differently for other conferences it starts becoming a large source of contention.

SUU lost 2 their last two games, so they didn't finish strong. They played a terribly weak OOC (makes YSU's OOC look killer and that was the big push against YSU...). 1 D1 OOC win, played only 2 playoff teams and got crushed in them (lost by an avg of 27-10...35-13 if we include playoff). Beat 1 team with a record over .500, Montana St....who, also had just 1 win against teams with a record over .500.

SHSU finished 4th in their conference (lost the tie break with Central Arkansas due to a H/H loss). OOC schedule also makes YSU's OOC look killer. I still have yet to get a straight answer if two of their OOC games were D1 games, or not, last season. Lost to the two other teams from their conference to make the playoffs (avg 33-27) and was completely bown the hell out in the last week of the season, knowing a loss put them in real jeopardy of not making it (49-31). Had 1 win during the regular season over a team with a record over .500.

And if I need to break down why the OVC and MEAC getting as many teams in as they do for you, then....well....just stop

[BisonBacker]

Don't entirely disagree, but when we see those standards enforced differently for other conferences it starts becoming a large source of contention.

SUU lost 2 their last two games, so they didn't finish strong. They played a terribly weak OOC (makes YSU's OOC look killer and that was the big push against YSU...). 1 D1 OOC win, played only 2 playoff teams and got crushed in them (lost by an avg of 27-10...35-13 if we include playoff). Beat 1 team with a record over .500, Montana St....who, also had just 1 win against teams with a record over .500.

SHSU finished 4th in their conference (lost the tie break with Central Arkansas due to a H/H loss). OOC schedule also makes YSU's OOC look killer. I still have yet to get a straight answer if two of their OOC games were D1 games, or not, last season. Lost to the two other teams from their conference to make the playoffs (avg 33-27) and was completely bown the hell out in the last week of the season, knowing a loss put them in real jeopardy of not making it (49-31). Had 1 win during the regular season over a team with a record over .500.

And if I need to break down why the OVC and MEAC getting as many teams in as they do for you, then....well....just stop

Clenz my man you are killing it in this thread with FACTS. Great work but unfortunately you already know the reality of it. It won't make one damn bit of difference. I say BS also on the teams on the Eastern side of the MVFC bitching and complaining about traveling out West. But that to "is what it is"!

[stevdock]

Does the FCS committee give special attention to teams that lose their best players due to injury?? It sure seemed like to me that UNI lost a lot when Farley went down against us and took quite a while to recover from it, especially when they lost games that probably should have been a win.

Even without that consideration, I thought UNI should have been in the playoff field as they were definitely one of the top 24 teams, and top (I don't remember the number) at larges.

[MR. CHICKEN]

19383.......THREE CAA SQWADS...LAST SEASON........TWO SEMI-FINALISTS......ONE CHAMPIONSHIP GAME.........&.....MAINE LOST TA NEW HAMPSHIRE.......IN DUH DANCE........MVC'S.....BIZONS......CARRYIN' DUH LOAD.....JES'..GETTHER DONE OUT DERE............xwavex.......BRAWK!

[stevdock]

19383.......THREE CAA SQWADS...LAST SEASON........TWO SEMI-FINALISTS......ONE CHAMPIONSHIP GAME.........&.....MAINE LOST TA NEW HAMPSHIRE.......IN DUH DANCE........MVC'S.....BIZONS......CARRYIN' DUH LOAD.....JES'..GETTHER DONE OUT DERE............xwavex.......BRAWK!

A big problem that I have with especially the CAA and the Big Sky is that they don't play everybody else or at least get to duck some of the best teams in their conference because of its size. A few years back there was a team in the Big Sky who played one of the top 3 teams (and lost) in the conference and if they win their last game of the season would have gotten in. I believe all the teams they beat that year were under .500 and they were considered a playoff team until the last game of the season?? You have teams in the MVFC that basically don't get to duck anybody. Yes I know win your OOC games and then hold on for dear life in our conference. I will say that a big part of winning the last 3 NC's is by playing in the MVFC, which got us ready for playoff football. Playing in another conference may not have helped as much.

[clenz]

Clenz my man you are killing it in this thread with FACTS. Great work but unfortunately you already know the reality of it. It won't make one damn bit of difference. I say BS also on the teams on the Eastern side of the MVFC bitching and complaining about traveling out West. But that to "is what it is"!
I did the same thing over the winter and was called a whiner, a b***er, cry baby, etc...


Listen, I "get" the reasons UNI, SIU, and YSU were left out. HOWEVER, you can't tell me the reasons they were left out were the 3 talked about in this thread BUT THEN put in SUU, SHSU, 2 OVC teams, and then a MEAC team over one of the three MVFC teams and completely ignore/twist those same rules.

I get the MVFC isn't going to get 3 or 4 every year, but to have more OVC teams than MVFC teams should pretty much never happen until the OVC becomes the MVFC and the MVFC becomes the OVC...

I also agree completely with the eastern teams bitching about the travel. UNI is lucky to be "the middle", but is unlucky enough to be the middle and not have objections going to SDSU, and NDSU in the same season. I really wish that would be split though. It also means NDSU, SDSU, and UNI won't miss each other. Damn, do I wish we could have played Indiana State instead of USD, SDSU, NDSU, or SIU last season. That would have put UNI at 4-4 in conference.


The real kicker is, UNI would have been better off losing to Iowa State and beating Southern Illinois or Illinois State. xconfusedx

[UNH Fanboi]

UNI and Youngstown choked. Get over it and stop whining.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

UNI and Youngstown choked. Get over it and stop whining.

Last year may have been a bad example but what was so great about the teams that got in over them?

[MR. CHICKEN]

19384......RHODE ISLAND......DUH OWN-LAH...DOOR MAT...IN CAA.....(WAITIN' TA SEE...'BOUT ELON)......EVERAH-ONE ELSE..IS UH (ANYGIVENSATURDAY) PLAYER......AWK!

!

[UNH Fanboi]

Last year may have been a bad example but what was so great about the teams that got in over them?

Nothing. But UNI and the other MVFC bubble teams left enough holes in their resumes to be left out. Reasonable people can disagree about whether they should have gotten in, but there wasn't some great injustice or bias against the MVFC like it's being portrayed by some.

[clenz]

Nothing. But UNI and the other MVFC bubble teams left enough holes in their resumes to be left out. Reasonable people can disagree about whether they should have gotten in, but there wasn't some great injustice or bias against the MVFC like it's being portrayed by some.
As I've pointed out - the holes in the MVFC were no larger than those of the 4th Big Sky, 2nd or 3rd OVC or 2nd MEAC team.

AMAF, the at least 2 of the MVFC teams had much better resume's than any other school that was selected.

[RabidRabbit]

The other thing that's aggrevating for the western MVFC teams, is that regionalization will keep the Dakota schools matched vs the BIg Sky or Southland schools. In other words, if Jacks had a first/second round games vs. Pioneer/NEC/OVC #2(or #3)/MEAC schools rather than the top two Big Sky schools ('13 opponents) or getting stuck going to NDSU after blowing out EIU (OVC champ) ('12 opponents) I like the Jacks chances to advance to at least the round of 8, if not final 4. If the xDSU's make it a 3-peat into the play-offs watch these teams matched west for the most part.

Other than Coastal pulling the upset in Missoula last year, would have seen a 2 Big Sky/MVFC round two games.

[FargoBison]

UNI and Youngstown choked. Get over it and stop whining.
YSU choked, UNI was beaten to pulp for part of the year.

[penguinpower]

That 33-20 record in the playoffs is buoyed by NDSU's 14-1 record. Take us out and it's 19-19. Until the other teams start making more noise then a win and loss it's probably not going to change. That said the Valley should have had 3-4 teams in last year. It is what it is, win your frickin games and leave no doubt.


Check YSU's playoff record. If they let us in the playoff we tend to make it to the semifinal games which adds more W;s than L's

- - - Updated - - -


Don't be stupid.


We went through this last selection week.

1. MVFC needs to win OOC games to get an AL. YSU was 3-1 OOC and missed the playoffs....UNI was 4-0 with an FBS win and a top 10 win and missed the playoffs. SIU was 2-2 so borderline on that one. MSU had a poor OOC so they missed the boat.

2. MVFC teams need to win in conference to get a bid. YSU was 5-3 in conference, SIU was 5-3 in conference, MSU was 5-3 in conference with wins over SDSU and SIU, played NDSU closer than anyone other than UNI. UNI struggled to find a rhythm quick enough to completely overcome the injuries and falls short on this one.

3. Teams need to finish strong. MSU won 4 of it's last 5 (only loss was UNI..who...), UNI won their final 3 including a top 25 win over YSU. SIU won 3 of last 4 (and last two). Only loss was to MSU who won 4 of 5 to end year. YSU finished 0-3 with a 2 point loss at UNI, SDSU and NDSU...not exactly an easy finish.



So, yes, teams need to win to remove all doubt. The reality of the situation is that the MVFC has 4 teams on a yearly basis that are deserving of the playoffs and because of the unbalanced scheduling they will almost always play each other (sans SIU/SDSU this year which could cost one of them a playoff spot...but if they had that loss that'd be used against them as well). The last 2 years UNI missed Indiana State - an automatic W, while playing NDSU, SDSU, MSU, and SIU all on the road last season.

In the MVFC you're going to get teams to check 2 of the three boxes, but to get 3 of 3 is going to take being the champion or some REAL separation between the top 2/3 and the rest of the league.


I guess we can call that standard fair, however, if the same rules for other conferences are applied the same then it doesn't really matter what the MVFC does...does it? How else do you explain the fact that OVC and MEAC consistently get as many/more teams as the MVFC?


Excellent Post.

[Red & Black]

The other thing that's aggrevating for the western MVFC teams, is that regionalization will keep the Dakota schools matched vs the BIg Sky or Southland schools. In other words, if Jacks had a first/second round games vs. Pioneer/NEC/OVC #2(or #3)/MEAC schools rather than the top two Big Sky schools ('13 opponents) or getting stuck going to NDSU after blowing out EIU (OVC champ) ('12 opponents) I like the Jacks chances to advance to at least the round of 8, if not final 4. If the xDSU's make it a 3-peat into the play-offs watch these teams matched west for the most part.

Other than Coastal pulling the upset in Missoula last year, would have seen a 2 Big Sky/MVFC round two games.

This is true for all the "western" FCS leagues, not just the MVFC. Big Sky/Southland/MVFC will always be matched up in the earlier rounds, don't see how that's unfair to only the MVFC. None of us get the benefit of playing a MEAC, etc. in the early rounds. It is what it is.

[Lehigh'98]

Just a question, what possible reason would the selection committee have for discriminating against the MVFC? Is it possible they just selected what they felt were the best 24 and YSU/ UNI just didn't have the resume to get in?

[FargoBison]

Just a question, what possible reason would the selection committee have for discriminating against the MVFC? Is it possible they just selected what they felt were the best 24 and YSU/ UNI just didn't have the resume to get in?

The selection committee is a political mess, can't leave out a MEAC team that beat nobody but has a great record. SOS doesn't matter when it comes to playoff selection just get that gaudy record. It is too hard for the committee to evaluate SOS, it might require them to make some actual tough decisions that requires football acumen to get right.

My first move in fixing the FCS playoff selection would be to make it like the FBS committee. Get some people who actually understand football in there.

[ValleyTalk]

YSU has missed the playoffs by one game each of the past three years. They blew it in 2011 and 2013 by losing their last game to a 1 win Missouri State (2011) and losing three straight to end 2013, including a last second loss on a FG to UNI 22-20. In 2012, they lost four straight in the middle of the season, before reeling off 3 straight at the end of the season to finish the year 7-4, with a win over FBS Pittsburgh.

At the end of the day, Wolford knew darn well what was required of them to make the playoffs and unfortunately each of the past 3 years they choked. Dating back to the 1990s, YSU has never made it into the playoffs as a bubble team. They have been left out in 1996, 2001, 2005, 2011, 2012, and 2013. If you know you won't make it in as a bubble team, then LEAVE NO DOUBT.

YSU is 14-1 at home in the playoffs I believe, including winning 14 straight since the only loss in 1990 to UCF on a last second FG.

[clenz]

The selection committee is a political mess, can't leave out a MEAC team that beat nobody but has a great record. SOS doesn't matter when it comes to playoff selection just get that gaudy record. It is too hard for the committee to evaluate SOS, it might require them to make some actual tough decisions that requires football acumen to get right.

My first move in fixing the FCS playoff selection would be to make it like the FBS committee. Get some people who actually understand football in there.
This is exactly why most MVFC fans feel Patty V is failing.

It's a political game, and one that she clearly isn't playing very well. The selection committee needs to be sold on the conference, beyond just the resumes. The MEAC (HBCUs) have convinced the selection committee that the deserve at least 2 every year, some how (my guess is a tug or two on the old P.C. strings). The OVC has somehow been able to pull a political curtain over the fact that they are a third tier FCS conference that went nearly 2 decades without a playoff win. The CAA has been able to convince the committee that there is money to be made, and exposure to be had with their teams. The Big Sky and Southland have convinced them that they are the only show in their areas, so they have exposure and "fan support". Patty V has done, seemingly, nothing to play the political game.

To an extent I applaud her for sticking to her guns and maintaining that resumes should speak for themselves - in theory, she's correct. However, when you dick around enough to get Mark Farley to speak out publically about something you've gone a long damn way in the wrong direction. Farley and Dannen don't say jack about diddily unless they've been provoke, or have a very real reason.

I think Patty V has made some good moves for position the MVFC, but even the best chess player can only set up their "wall" for so long before their weaknesses are exposed.

[Red & Black]

This is exactly why most MVFC fans feel Patty V is failing.

It's a political game, and one that she clearly isn't playing very well. The selection committee needs to be sold on the conference, beyond just the resumes. The MEAC (HBCUs) have convinced the selection committee that the deserve at least 2 every year, some how (my guess is a tug or two on the old P.C. strings). The OVC has somehow been able to pull a political curtain over the fact that they are a third tier FCS conference that went nearly 2 decades without a playoff win. The CAA has been able to convince the committee that there is money to be made, and exposure to be had with their teams. The Big Sky and Southland have convinced them that they are the only show in their areas, so they have exposure and "fan support". Patty V has done, seemingly, nothing to play the political game.

To an extent I applaud her for sticking to her guns and maintaining that resumes should speak for themselves - in theory, she's correct. However, when you dick around enough to get Mark Farley to speak out publically about something you've gone a long damn way in the wrong direction. Farley and Dannen don't say jack about diddily unless they've been provoke, or have a very real reason.

I think Patty V has made some good moves for position the MVFC, but even the best chess player can only set up their "wall" for so long before their weaknesses are exposed.

Probably a lot of truth in the above post. No reason one of the power conferences should be getting the same number of teams into the playoffs as a conference that hasn't won a playoff game anytime recently. I think the MVFC deserved to get 3 teams in last year, but to be honest, a little parity by the rest of the conference come playoff time wouldn't hurt, either. Saying that, the BSC didn't do too well in that regard last season, either. But we've at least had a couple different teams make the semi's the past few years.

[clenz]

Probably a lot of truth in the above post. No reason one of the power conferences should be getting the same number of teams into the playoffs as a conference that hasn't won a playoff game anytime recently. I think the MVFC deserved to get 3 teams in last year, but to be honest, a little parity by the rest of the conference come playoff time wouldn't hurt, either. Saying that, the BSC didn't do too well in that regard last season, either. But we've at least had a couple different teams make the semi's the past few years.
The thing is "parity" has been the reason for the conference getting snubbed in the past... Not enough separation we are told... Can't have 3 or 4 teams at 5-3 or 4-4 and get multiple teams in, we've been told.

Again, I understand pointing the holes in the resumes out, they are valid. But the rules seem to change for the MVFC for some reason

[UNH Fanboi]

The thing is "parity" has been the reason for the conference getting snubbed in the past... Not enough separation we are told... Can't have 3 or 4 teams at 5-3 or 4-4 and get multiple teams in, we've been told.

Again, I understand pointing the holes in the resumes out, they are valid. But the rules seem to change for the MVFC for some reason

The rules don't change for the MVFC. UNI had 5 losses and no team has ever gotten an at-large with 5 losses. Youngstown had a pretty good resume--no one is disputing that--but ending the season with 3 losses was the kiss of death. Maybe the order of wins and losses shouldn't matter, but it does and has affected non-MVFC teams in the past. These things have nothing to do with an anti-MVFC bias.

Everyone has acknowledged that there are good arguments for why the MVFC should have gotten one or two more teams in last year, but the whining and playing of the victim card 8 months later is just pathetic.

[clenz]

Who's playing the victim card? It is a legitimate discussion on the topic. You can **** off the thread if you don't like it.

[UNH Fanboi]

Who's playing the victim card?

You are by saying that the MVFC is subject to different rules.

[Twentysix]

You are by saying that the MVFC is subject to different rules.

Honestly, after seeing UNH in person last season, there were several MVFC teams that belonged in the playoffs infront of you guys.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Last year may have been a bad example but what was so great about the teams that got in over them?

Nothing, that's the damn point and always has been. They were all mediocre and saying this blemish is better than that blemish is irritatingly f'n stupid from the homer crowd.

If you are mediocre and leave your destiny up to others then too bad is sort of the point cuz it don't always work out. Those left out MAY have been better than some in but none of the ugly girls were gonna win the beauty pageant. Congrats on being the best looking ugly chick but NDSU had the rack so nobody knows your name anyway.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Just a question, what possible reason would the selection committee have for discriminating against the MVFC? Is it possible they just selected what they felt were the best 24 and YSU/ UNI just didn't have the resume to get in?

hmmm, that's a novel idea. I'm sure it's a conspiracy though.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Honestly, after seeing UNH in person last season, there were several MVFC teams that belonged in the playoffs infront of you guys.

No there wasn't cuz that ain't how it works. I know Wofford was gonna be world beaters last year because they played NDSU tough etc. but sometimes it just works out that those single games you see might not be all that's considered.

Hell Montana has long seen tougher games in conference than in the playoffs but it didn't mean all those conference teams playing you year in and year out should have been in over others who've made it.

[jacoj21]

Honestly, after seeing UNH in person last season,there were several MVFC teams that belonged in the playoffs infront of you guys.

UNH beat 2 seeded teams and lost in the semifinals against a team that blew out every playoff opponent they faced. If you are basing your opinion on one game played against NDSU, then the only other MVFC team that should've made the playoffs was UNI. Saying several MVFC teams belonged in the playoffs more than a team that made it to the semifinals and lost to NDSU is quite ridiculous.

[Twentysix]

Any team that gives up more than 50 points in a playoff game without reciprocating that kind of scoring, never belonged in the first place. UNH was by far the weakest team NDSU faced in the playoffs.

[Twentysix]

Nothing, that's the damn point and always has been. They were all mediocre and saying this blemish is better than that blemish is irritatingly f'n stupid from the homer crowd.

If you are mediocre and leave your destiny up to others then too bad is sort of the point cuz it don't always work out. Those left out MAY have been better than some in but none of the ugly girls were gonna win the beauty pageant. Congrats on being the best looking ugly chick but NDSU had the rack so nobody knows your name anyway.

You make some points for sure, but, there is most certainly conference favoritism going on when handing out the at-larges. At-larges should be handled on an RPI or RPI-like scale, sagarin or something.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

You make some points for sure, but, there is most certainly conference favoritism going on when handing out the at-larges. At-larges should be handled on an RPI or RPI-like scale, sagarin or something.

BS, take a look at the work clenz did and check in and see if it might be an anomaly. Let's not make last year everything, cuz it isn't.

I fully understand the commissioner lobbying early, she probably ought to because I'm sure she's heard about it but the conspiracy just isn't there.

Personally, as I've said many times I'd sure have given it to another MVFC over another MEAC or probably over another BSC team but the truth is there just weren't any compelling reasons why other than the subjective homer "ther were better". Even if I too believe it to be true it doesn't make a conspiratorial argument, it makes a close call not going your way is all it is.xthumbsupx

[MTfan4life]

No there wasn't cuz that ain't how it works. I know Wofford was gonna be world beaters last year because they played NDSU tough etc. but sometimes it just works out that those single games you see might not be all that's considered.

Hell Montana has long seen tougher games in conference than in the playoffs but it didn't mean all those conference teams playing you year in and year out should have been in over others who've made it.

This. In 1995, Montana beat EKU, GaSouth, and SFA by an average of nearly 50 points. During that same season they had a 3 point win over NAU, a 9 point win over MSU, and a 14 point win over ISU. However, that didn't mean that those Big Sky teams belonged in the playoffs.


Any team that gives up more than 50 points in a playoff game without reciprocating that kind of scoring, never belonged in the first place.

Stephen F. Austin in 95 lost 70-14 to Montana. They gave up way more than 50 and didn't even come close to reciprocating and by your definition they shouldn't have belonged. However, the previous weekend they beat an undefeated Appalachian State team in Boone. (App State had beaten eventual runner-up Marshall earlier in the season) So it has happened before where a quality team got roughed up by the eventual national champion.

[WestCoastAggie]

For those criticizing the MEAC last year, Bethune-Cookman had a pretty decent resume in 2013. BCU Beat Florida International (FBS) and Beat Playoff Teams Tenn. State and SC State. SC State's selection was debatable but they played Furman very tough and gave us a great game to watch.

This year, the top teams in the MEAC play some quality out of conference competion.

SC State will play Coastal Carolina and Furman, Bethune Cookman plays and should beat FIU again along with UCF.

Hampton plays Old Dominion, William & Mary and Richmond before a cupcake game of Miles U. followed by playing SC State and NC A&T in conference.

Lastly, my A&T Aggies will play SWAC East contender Ala. A&M and Coastal Carolina before a rematch with Elon and last year, beat App. Sate which perhaps shocked them into collapsing the rest of their season.

We also have teams that can slip up and win the conference like Morgan State playing Villanova, Holy Cross and FBS Eastern Michigan who almost lost to Howard last year.

MEAC teams overall are improving their OOC scheduling, finally and if the chips fall rightly could have very legit arguments for 2 At-Large bids this year.

[Cocky]

Reasons MVC didnt get more playoff teams.
Couldnt manage a winning record against the lowly OVC.

Out of conference wins by non playoff teams- UNI over McNeese and Iowa St. - SIU over SEMO - YSU over Dayton these are the big wins. UNI is the only non playoff team with any quality OOC wins. UNI had a 5 game losing streak which doesnt help your chances.

OCC losses EIU, TTU and Murray from the lowly OVC, NW State and CAU.

MVC needs some quality OOC wins from more teams. Its hard to argue your conference should have more bids when your middle and bottom teams are not beating other conferences in the reg season.

[FargoBison]

Reasons MVC didnt get more playoff teams.
Couldnt manage a winning record against the lowly OVC.

Out of conference wins by non playoff teams- UNI over McNeese and Iowa St. - SIU over SEMO - YSU over Dayton these are the big wins. UNI is the only non playoff team with any quality OOC wins. UNI had a 5 game losing streak which doesnt help your chances.

OCC losses EIU, TTU and Murray from the lowly OVC, NW State and CAU.

MVC needs some quality OOC wins from more teams. Its hard to argue your conference should have more bids when your middle and bottom teams are not beating other conferences in the reg season.
Why should that apply for the MVFC when it doesn't apply for the MEAC and OVC?

[gotts]

Reasons MVC didnt get more playoff teams.
Couldnt manage a winning record against the lowly OVC.

Out of conference wins by non playoff teams- UNI over McNeese and Iowa St. - SIU over SEMO - YSU over Dayton these are the big wins. UNI is the only non playoff team with any quality OOC wins. UNI had a 5 game losing streak which doesnt help your chances.

OCC losses EIU, TTU and Murray from the lowly OVC, NW State and CAU.

MVC needs some quality OOC wins from more teams. Its hard to argue your conference should have more bids when your middle and bottom teams are not beating other conferences in the reg season.

I can maybe see the point you're trying to make, but I have a bit of a problem the way you're trying to present it.

You talk about the OOC wins by UNI, SIU, and YSU, but point out OOC losses by teams that weren't in the playoff discussion.

Indiana State (37-38 to Tennessee Tech), Missouri State (38-41 to Murray State), Missouri State (17-23 to Northwestern State), and Missouri State (13-17 to Central Arkansas).

OOC losses by "bubble" teams: UNI - none; SIU - Illinois (34-42), EIU (37-40, 2 OT); YSU - Michigan State (17-55) [1 close loss to an FBS, 1 FBS blowout, and 1 close loss to the OVC champion]

If you're saying that OOC losses by Missouri State and Indiana contribute to the demise of the conference, then I'll raise that NDSU beating Kansas State, SDSU beating Southeastern Louisiana, and USD beating a UC Davis squad that was 5-3 in the Big Sky would more than make up for that for the conference.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

This. In 1995, Montana beat EKU, GaSouth, and SFA by an average of nearly 50 points. During that same season they had a 3 point win over NAU, a 9 point win over MSU, and a 14 point win over ISU. However, that didn't mean that those Big Sky teams belonged in the playoffs.



Stephen F. Austin in 95 lost 70-14 to Montana. They gave up way more than 50 and didn't even come close to reciprocating and by your definition they shouldn't have belonged. However, the previous weekend they beat an undefeated Appalachian State team in Boone. (App State had beaten eventual runner-up Marshall earlier in the season) So it has happened before where a quality team got roughed up by the eventual national champion.

The NDSU fans as a group are very sharp but the one place I've seen them lacking overall is in this area and thinking that any team that gave them a run in these last couple of years was the odds on favorite to sit next them at the table next year...I've seen it happen over and over again and know that sometimes it's like that and sometimes it ain't. Your team, and one game against that team is not the barometer. It's just way too simple a view of things so it's a bit surprising to see it go around the way it does/has.

[gotts]

The NDSU fans as a group are very sharp but the one place I've seen them lacking overall is in this area and thinking that any team that gave them a run in these last couple of years was the odds on favorite to sit next them at the table next year...I've seen it happen over and over again and know that sometimes it's like that and sometimes it ain't. Your team, and one game against that team is not the barometer. It's just way too simple a view of things so it's a bit surprising to see it go around the way it does/has.

I really hope this isn't the group think. It's any given Saturday for a reason. Most fans will recognize that certain teams match up better with other certain teams. Circumstances beyond teams' control can often dictate (travel being one of them possibly?), and not every game can be viewed in a vacuum.

[Cocky]

Why should that apply for the MVFC when it doesn't apply for the MEAC and OVC?

It doesn't for OVC UTM beat UTC, Murray beat Missouri State only loss out of conference to FBS schools. Of course being 7-5 and 6-6 kept them out of the playoffs.

[penguinpower]

I can maybe see the point you're trying to make, but I have a bit of a problem the way you're trying to present it.

You talk about the OOC wins by UNI, SIU, and YSU, but point out OOC losses by teams that weren't in the playoff discussion.

Indiana State (37-38 to Tennessee Tech), Missouri State (38-41 to Murray State), Missouri State (17-23 to Northwestern State), and Missouri State (13-17 to Central Arkansas).

OOC losses by "bubble" teams: UNI - none; SIU - Illinois (34-42), EIU (37-40, 2 OT); YSU - Michigan State (17-55) [1 close loss to an FBS, 1 FBS blowout, and 1 close loss to the OVC champion]

If you're saying that OOC losses by Missouri State and Indiana contribute to the demise of the conference, then I'll raise that NDSU beating Kansas State, SDSU beating Southeastern Louisiana, and USD beating a UC Davis squad that was 5-3 in the Big Sky would more than make up for that for the conference.


You could argue the Michign State should have played for the national Championship last year. They were arguably the best team in the country last year. That loss doesn't look as bad to me anymore, especially since Pat Narduzzi is still pissed off about the fact that YSU fired his father to hire Tressel. He hasn't gotten over it and he wanted to punish YSU.

[344Johnson]

You could argue the Michign State should have played for the national Championship last year. They were arguably the best team in the country last year. That loss doesn't look as bad to me anymore, especially since Pat Narduzzi is still pissed off about the fact that YSU fired his father to hire Tressel. He hasn't gotten over it and he wanted to punish YSU.

Lol no one could argue that..... The best team... As usual... Was Alabama. Florida State and Auburn were the next best.

[RabidRabbit]

SDSU will continue its montra of playing good solid opponents with Cal Poly and SUU games, and SEC member Mizzou. Yeah, one dog, UW-Who cares, D-III team to get a balanced 6 home -6 away. Hope Jack meet or beat expectations of 8 W's, and another play-off spot.

Sure would like to see some OVC teams on the Jacks schedule. Have done well with the SOuthland, and still getting more games with our initial GWFC conference mates. Look forward to when Montana plays in Brookings, cause only way Jacks will travel to Missoula is for a play-off game.

[penguinpower]

Lol no one could argue that..... The best team... As usual... Was Alabama. Florida State and Auburn were the next best.

Um Alabama had no defense last year.....Neither did auburn. About 120 points in the SEC championship game. Meanwhile Michigan State was undefeated except for the 5 phantom pass interference call against Notre Dame early in the season. MSU was better than Auburn and Alabama and Stanford at the end of last year.

[Thundar]

Um Alabama had no defense last year.....Neither did auburn. About 120 points in the SEC championship game. Meanwhile Michigan State was undefeated except for the 5 phantom pass interference call against Notre Dame early in the season. MSU was better than Auburn and Alabama and Stanford at the end of last year.


Too bad we will never know for sure

[centennial]

Did some work. According to Saragin and Massey teams that should have been out- Northern Arizona, South Carolina St, Samford, Southern Utah. Teams that should have been in- W&M, UNI, SIU, YSU. Notice how ridiculous NCAA SRS rankings are. No idea how they calculate those. Green are at large, yellow are on the bubble. According to NCAA the only got unlucky was YSU, team that got lucky UNH.



NCAA SRS Rank
School
Record
Point
Sagarin Rank
At Large Bid Saragin
Massey Rating
Massey At Large


9
Towson
(10-2)
15.55
66
1
65
1


29
New Hampshire
(7-4)
6.66
89
2
88
2


35
William & Mary
(7-5)
4.86
92
3
108
6


31
UNI
(7-5)
5.67
93
4
102
4


17
South Dakota St.
(8-4)
10.01
94
5
91
3


32
Southern Ill.
(7-5)
5.61
97
6
103
5


12
Jacksonville St.
(9-3)
13.5
101
7
117
8


23
Sam Houston St.
(8-4)
8.69
105
8
133
13


24
Youngstown St.
(8-4)
8.15
108
9
110
7


8
Montana
(10-2)
15.64
110
10
118
9


15
Tennessee St.
(9-3)
13.09
120
11
125
12


5
McNeese St.
(10-2)
16.25
125
12
122
11


6
Fordham
(11-1)
16
130
13
120
10


30
Central Ark.
(7-5)
6.24
135
14
161
16


26
Chattanooga
(8-4)
7.7
140
15
137
15


11
Northern Ariz.
(9-2)
14.54
149
16
134
14


18
South Carolina St.
(9-3)
9.38
151
17
183
20


25
Samford
(8-4)
7.85
154
18
162
17


28
Lehigh
(8-3)
7.15
170
19
180
19


21
Southern Utah
(8-4)
9.19
171
20
177
18


34
Villanova
(6-5)
4.87
88
DQ
106
DQ

[344Johnson]

Um Alabama had no defense last year.....Neither did auburn. About 120 points in the SEC championship game. Meanwhile Michigan State was undefeated except for the 5 phantom pass interference call against Notre Dame early in the season. MSU was better than Auburn and Alabama and Stanford at the end of last year.

Look it's cute that you are sticking up for the big ten and all.... But your best team lost to my beloved Irish. Couldn't score more than 10 points on them in fact... That's not going to give much claim to being better than those other schools.

[ValleyTalk]

Look it's cute that you are sticking up for the big ten and all.... But your best team lost to my beloved Irish. Couldn't score more than 10 points on them in fact... That's not going to give much claim to being better than those other schools.
I disagree. It was early in the year when MSU was still getting their act together. Prior to playing YSU the week before, their offense was in disarray. By the end of the year I feel they were one of the top 4 teams in America. Our beloved Irish beating them does not change that.

[clenz]

Unless they release how the SRS is calculated, and release it multiple times during the season we have no reason to trust it.

I can say I have a computer ranking, never release it until I have the playoff field set and then place teams in an order to justify the teams I put in the playoffs.

Also struggle to trust a ranking that includes ODU, App St and GSU for last season.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Unless they release how the SRS is calculated, and release it multiple times during the season we have no reason to trust it.

I can say I have a computer ranking, never release it until I have the playoff field set and then place teams in an order to justify the teams I put in the playoffs.

Also struggle to trust a ranking that includes ODU, App St and GSU for last season.

Now you are ripping the tits off it clenzy cuz everything there I can agree with.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

I love how they act like the MVFC is alone in having good teams left out of the playoffs. The CAA has probably had more than any other league.

The SoCon has had plenty of teams sitting at home playoff time that I know could play with at least some of the at-large teams that make the field. And unlike the MVFC, Big Sky, and CAA, they play a round-robin schedule so there's no combinatorial advantage.

Heck, even with the Patriot League I don't think anyone would say there's no case to be made that that 2012 Lehigh team was as good or better as some of the teams that made that playoff field.

[FargoBison]

I love how they act like the MVFC is alone in having good teams left out of the playoffs. The CAA has probably had more than any other league.

The SoCon has had plenty of teams sitting at home playoff time that I know could play with at least some of the at-large teams that make the field. And unlike the MVFC, Big Sky, and CAA, they play a round-robin schedule so there's no combinatorial advantage.

Heck, even with the Patriot League I don't think anyone would say there's no case to be made that that 2012 Lehigh team was as good or better as some of the teams that made that playoff field.
I was very outspoken about Towson being left out a few years ago. My issue is mainly with the MEAC getting at large spots. It is a joke. SC state would lose by at least two TDs to SIU, UNI or YSU.

Same goes for the OVC on occasion. The committee does not use SOS properly and it results in weak teams with gaudy records getting in.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

The problem is that with the expansion and autobids from truly terrible conferences, teams will break the "playoff win" barrier and the conference records will get inflated.

[skinny_uncle]

I love how they act like the MVFC is alone in having good teams left out of the playoffs. The CAA has probably had more than any other league.

The SoCon has had plenty of teams sitting at home playoff time that I know could play with at least some of the at-large teams that make the field. And unlike the MVFC, Big Sky, and CAA, they play a round-robin schedule so there's no combinatorial advantage.

Heck, even with the Patriot League I don't think anyone would say there's no case to be made that that 2012 Lehigh team was as good or better as some of the teams that made that playoff field.

The 2012 Lehigh team lost their league title to a Colgate team that started their season by losing to a USD that lost every Valley game they played that year.
xlolx

[skinny_uncle]

No there wasn't cuz that ain't how it works. I know Wofford was gonna be world beaters last year because they played NDSU tough etc. but sometimes it just works out that those single games you see might not be all that's considered.

Hell Montana has long seen tougher games in conference than in the playoffs but it didn't mean all those conference teams playing you year in and year out should have been in over others who've made it.
The Bison's closest game in the playoffs last year was a margin of 28 in the finale. Six of their 8 conference games were closer than that. This thread doesn't have anything to do with Montana.
:D

[ursus arctos horribilis]

The Bison's closest game in the playoffs last year was a margin of 28 in the finale. Six of their 8 conference games were closer than that. This thread doesn't have anything to do with Montana.
:D

It does now.

Montana's 48-0, 45-0, 70-14 margins on the way in to the 1995 championship suggest a greater margin than what you speak of so it's relevant to earlier conversation so pay attention.

[skinny_uncle]

It does now.

Montana's 48-0, 45-0, 70-14 margins on the way in to the 1995 championship suggest a greater margin than what you speak of so it's relevant to earlier conversation so pay attention.
It started as a thread about the MVFC. If a Griz fan tried to hijack it, I am shocked.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

It started as a thread about the MVFC. If a Griz fan tried to hijack it, I am shocked.

I am not shocked that you can't follow a logical thread of conversation. Of course you do try and make some sort of off the wall "splash" every year when you come back summer camp so I'll assume that's what this is.xthumbsupx

BOOM!

SHUT DOWN LIKE ARKEE WHITLOCK IN WAGRIZ!!

WOOT! WOOT!

[Cocky]

The Bison's closest game in the playoffs last year was a margin of 28 in the finale. Six of their 8 conference games were closer than that. This thread doesn't have anything to do with Montana.
:D
And SDSU lost to EWU by more than anyone in the playoffs and close to as bad as anyone in regular season. Still believe SDSU could have beaten some of those teams. Conference teams see you every year so adjustment have normally been made before the start of the game unlike playoff time.

[MR. CHICKEN]

And SDSU lost to EWU by more than anyone in the playoffs and close to as bad as anyone in regular season. Still believe SDSU could have beaten some of those teams. Conference teams see you every year so adjustment have normally been made before the start of the game unlike playoff time.


19410....VERAH GOOD POINT.......WHEN DELAWARE RAN DUH WING-T......IN CONFERENCE TEAMS WHO SAW IT EVERAH YEAR.....STILL COODN'T STOP IT/HAD PLENTY UH CLOSE GAMES........BUT WHEN WE MADE DUH DANCE.........DAT OFFENSE......MADE OTHERAH PLAY-OFF SQWADS....LOOK SILLY.......BRAWK!

[ursus arctos horribilis]

19410....VERAH GOOD POINT.......WHEN DELAWARE RAN DUH WING-T......IN CONFERENCE TEAMS WHO SAW IT EVERAH YEAR.....STILL COODN'T STOP IT/HAD PLENTY UH CLOSE GAMES........BUT WHEN WE MADE DUH DANCE.........DAT OFFENSE......MADE OTHERAH PLAY-OFF SQWADS....LOOK SILLY.......BRAWK!
Hey fella, I'm gonna need a "Harumph!" out of you for this post earlier saying this same thing.


No there wasn't cuz that ain't how it works. I know Wofford was gonna be world beaters last year because they played NDSU tough etc. but sometimes it just works out that those single games you see might not be all that's considered.

Hell Montana has long seen tougher games in conference than in the playoffs but it didn't mean all those conference teams playing you year in and year out should have been in over others who've made it.

[Lehigh'98]

Wofford/GSU gave NDSU their toughest tests in 2012(hope I got the year right). Neither had a stellar 2013.

[Professor Chaos]

And SDSU lost to EWU by more than anyone in the playoffs and close to as bad as anyone in regular season. Still believe SDSU could have beaten some of those teams. Conference teams see you every year so adjustment have normally been made before the start of the game unlike playoff time.
But SDSU only lost to NDSU by 20. And NDSU beat Towson by 28. And Towson beat EWU. So EWU beating SDSU by 24 means....

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/b7/b7fc029207afd5f9013bae8745ce496f3dc5868d8e6a46dfc6 152b818d5925ab.jpg

[clenz]

Indiana State performed as well against NDSU as New Hampshire did.


Think about that...


I don't know what it means...but ISUb is likely the worst scholarship team in the nation - other than maybe Northern Colorado.

[BisonFan02]

Indiana State performed as well against NDSU as New Hampshire did.


Think about that...


I don't know what it means...but ISUb is likely the worst scholarship team in the nation - other than maybe Northern Colorado.

To be fair though, Indiana St. got to play NDSU at home versus on the road for UNH....that clearly is the difference maker. :D

[SIUSalukiFan]

And SDSU lost to EWU by more than anyone in the playoffs and close to as bad as anyone in regular season. Still believe SDSU could have beaten some of those teams. Conference teams see you every year so adjustment have normally been made before the start of the game unlike playoff time.

From 2013 ...

Eastern Illinois 40, Southern Illinois 37 2OT

Eastern Illinois 52, Jacksonville State 14

Being in the OVC really helped the Cocks against EIU.

[Lehigh'98]

Is it possible NDSU was just a tremendous machine (ala Secretariat) at the end of last season and hit their full stride in the playoffs, also the games they were most motivated for and would have destroyed anyone ( even the MVFC almighty) who got in their way?

[clenz]

Imagine if Indiana State was a CAA team..

NDSU would have won 300 to -42 if they kept it to only 46 because they were in the same conference as NDSU.

[Cocky]

From 2013 ...

Eastern Illinois 40, Southern Illinois 37 2OT

Eastern Illinois 52, Jacksonville State 14

Being in the OVC really helped the Cocks against EIU.

We had a first year coach who had seen no one in our league. SIU plays EIU most years, too. Plus nothing on life is absolute except taxes, death and homer for their team.

[Cocky]

Indiana State performed as well against NDSU as New Hampshire did.


Think about that...


I don't know what it means...but ISUb is likely the worst scholarship team in the nation - other than maybe Northern Colorado.

You haven't seen Austin Peay?

[clenz]

You haven't seen Austin Peay?
You clearly haven't seen Indiana State

[skinny_uncle]

xlmaox

[skinny_uncle]

I am not shocked that you can't follow a logical thread of conversation. Of course you do try and make some sort of off the wall "splash" every year when you come back summer camp so I'll assume that's what this is.xthumbsupx

BOOM!

SHUT DOWN LIKE ARKEE WHITLOCK IN WAGRIZ!!

WOOT! WOOT!
I ain't around much in the offseason, true.
It's always fun to rile up a Griz fan, though even if they are not that relevant any more.

[skinny_uncle]

You haven't seen Austin Peay?

Who can forget their chant of "Let's Go, Peay!"

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I ain't around much in the offseason, true.
It's always fun to rile up a Griz fan, though even if they are not that relevant any more.

You riled up a Griz fan? Excellent, point me to that will ya cuz I'd like to laugh along with ya.

Has been still better than never was I guess so we got that going for us ginny_uncle.

[UNH Fanboi]

Hey guys, last year the Houston Texans only lost the Seahawks 23-20 in OT, whereas the Broncos got blown out 43-8 in the Super Bowl! I guess the Texans were pretty good and the Broncos sucked!

[centennial]

Hey guys, last year the Houston Texans only lost the Seahawks 23-20 in OT, whereas the Broncos got blown out 43-8 in the Super Bowl! I guess the Texans were pretty good and the Broncos sucked!
The broncos were like EIU, good quarterback and lot of set pieces but give them a good defense or unfavorable conditions and they crumble. Point still being you barely made it in to the playoffs, your AD as well as South Carolina state's AD were involved in the decision to pick teams(if I remember correctly). There were 3 teams in the MVFC that deserved to be there as much as your team, 1 in the CAA.
For the record I think you deserved to be in the playoffs even after what NDSU did to your team, but I would have taken both SIU and UNI over your team, Missouri State at the end of the year was also as good as UNH.

[BisonFan02]

You riled up a Griz fan? Excellent, point me to that will ya cuz I'd like to laugh along with ya.

Has been still better than never was I guess so we got that going for us ginny_uncle.

.......which is nice. :D

[UNH Fanboi]

Missouri State at the end of the year was also as good as UNH.

Haha!

[Lehigh'98]

The broncos were like EIU, good quarterback and lot of set pieces but give them a good defense or unfavorable conditions and they crumble. Point still being you barely made it in to the playoffs, your AD as well as South Carolina state's AD were involved in the decision to pick teams(if I remember correctly). There were 3 teams in the MVFC that deserved to be there as much as your team, 1 in the CAA.
For the record I think you deserved to be in the playoffs even after what NDSU did to your team, but I would have taken both SIU and UNI over your team, Missouri State at the end of the year was also as good as UNH.

This is obseurd. UNI, who finished the season 3-5 over UNH, who won like 9/10 including some good wins in the playoffs & vs Maine 2x. They beat all 3 of those teams at the end of last year fairly easy. You do realize teams regress or improve throughout the season?

[UNH Fanboi]

This is obseurd. UNI, who finished the season 3-5 over UNH, who won like 9/10 including some good wins in the playoffs & vs Maine 2x. They beat all 3 of those teams at the end of last year fairly easy. You do realize teams regress or improve throughout the season?

No it's not, Lehigh. There were 3 (or maybe even 4!) non-NDSU MVFC teams that were better than or as good as a playoff semi-finalist. You're just ignorant. Pay no attention to the fact that SDSU got blown out in the round of 16.

[MplsBison]

Don't be stupid.


We went through this last selection week.

1. MVFC needs to win OOC games to get an AL. YSU was 3-1 OOC and missed the playoffs....UNI was 4-0 with an FBS win and a top 10 win and missed the playoffs. SIU was 2-2 so borderline on that one. MSU had a poor OOC so they missed the boat.

2. MVFC teams need to win in conference to get a bid. YSU was 5-3 in conference, SIU was 5-3 in conference, MSU was 5-3 in conference with wins over SDSU and SIU, played NDSU closer than anyone other than UNI. UNI struggled to find a rhythm quick enough to completely overcome the injuries and falls short on this one.

3. Teams need to finish strong. MSU won 4 of it's last 5 (only loss was UNI..who...), UNI won their final 3 including a top 25 win over YSU. SIU won 3 of last 4 (and last two). Only loss was to MSU who won 4 of 5 to end year. YSU finished 0-3 with a 2 point loss at UNI, SDSU and NDSU...not exactly an easy finish.



So, yes, teams need to win to remove all doubt. The reality of the situation is that the MVFC has 4 teams on a yearly basis that are deserving of the playoffs and because of the unbalanced scheduling they will almost always play each other (sans SIU/SDSU this year which could cost one of them a playoff spot...but if they had that loss that'd be used against them as well). The last 2 years UNI missed Indiana State - an automatic W, while playing NDSU, SDSU, MSU, and SIU all on the road last season.

In the MVFC you're going to get teams to check 2 of the three boxes, but to get 3 of 3 is going to take being the champion or some REAL separation between the top 2/3 and the rest of the league.


I guess we can call that standard fair, however, if the same rules for other conferences are applied the same then it doesn't really matter what the MVFC does...does it? How else do you explain the fact that OVC and MEAC consistently get as many/more teams as the MVFC?

The simple fact of the matter is -- and you've pointed this out before in other threads -- the only way the MVFC can consistently get more of its deserving teams in to the playoff is to increase the league membership to 12-14 teams. This allows the four best programs to have at least half of the schedule as "should be" wins, two games against the middling teams and two games against the other top programs.

That's the CAA/Big Sky model. That's why those leagues will (and have in the CAA's case) consistently gotten many teams in the playoffs.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

The broncos were like EIU, good quarterback and lot of set pieces but give them a good defense or unfavorable conditions and they crumble. Point still being you barely made it in to the playoffs, your AD as well as South Carolina state's AD were involved in the decision to pick teams(if I remember correctly). There were 3 teams in the MVFC that deserved to be there as much as your team, 1 in the CAA.
For the record I think you deserved to be in the playoffs even after what NDSU did to your team, but I would have taken both SIU and UNI over your team, Missouri State at the end of the year was also as good as UNH.

You'd have taken 3 other MVFC teams over teams from other conferences. What a shocker. It's fine if most of you MVFC homers don't give a rat's ass about some shred of credibility but I just want to make sure yiou don't expect the rest of us to take you seriously.

You are good guys but as a group MVFC fans are pretty full of **** about what they are. xlolx

If I could buy your conference for what it's worth and sell it for what y'all think it's worth I'd be taking a long vacation in short order.

[MplsBison]

Here's a very easy plan to get the MVFC to 13 teams, following the CAA/(new)Big Sky model and would be a win for almost all parties involved.

- Add two teams to the bottom of the MVFC: Drake and Butler (neither required to add scholarships)
Drake helps the western teams (NDSU, SDSU, UNI) get another easy game while Butler helps the eastern teams (YSU, SIU, IL St) get another easy game.

- Add two teams to the middle of the MVFC: Eastern Illinois and UND (each also receive membership in non-football to the Summit League)
Again, UND gives a winnable game for the western teams and Eastern a winnable game for the eastern teams.


Winning sides:
- MVFC: gets to 13 teams, so its top four teams don't have to beat each other up.
- Drake and Butler get elevated to an elite conference in football, which helps their recruiting and elevates their university athletic status as well
- UND and the Big Sky both win from a geography standpoint, UND gets back with the Dakota schools where they belong in all sports while WIU gains an all-sports in-state rival in EIU and the IL schools in the MVFC also get a football rival
- Summit League wins by getting UND into the conference, another strong team in non-football sports (beat NDSU in every sport last year, I believe except perhaps softball)
- OVC gets it's least contiguous member (geographically and culturally) out in EIU

Losing sides:
PFL: loses Drake and Butler ... but who cares?


I know I'll be accused of being a UND fan or whatever the old men NDSU fans who post on this site think, but the plan is actually pretty brilliant all around.

[clenz]

Drake and Butler want no part of the MVFC - Drakes been offered time and time again. There's a reason they are the only MVC school with football not in the MVFC. They are still hoping for the Dayton rule to get reversed.

EIU left the Valley because they couldn't compete, they aren't coming back and they sure as hell aren't leaving the OVC all sports for the Summit.

UND...just let's not even bring them into this.

There's no good way for the MVFC to get to 12 teams, and a snowballs chance in hell at 14.

[FargoBison]

The only way the MVFC expands is if the MVC adds a football playing school for basketball purposes, like say Murray State.

[RabidRabbit]

The only way the MVFC expands is if the MVC adds a football playing school for basketball purposes, like say Murray State.

I would disagree. MVFC is more likely to expand to accommodate new potential Summit League schools who also need a football confernece.

[SIUSalukiFan]

We had a first year coach who had seen no one in our league.

That may be the worst excuse I've ever heard for an ass-whipping. xsmiley_wix

Maybe you can stop by the football offices and inform the gang most games are on tape.

[centennial]

You'd have taken 3 other MVFC teams over teams from other conferences. What a shocker. It's fine if most of you MVFC homers don't give a rat's ass about some shred of credibility but I just want to make sure yiou don't expect the rest of us to take you seriously.

You are good guys but as a group MVFC fans are pretty full of **** about what they are. xlolx

If I could buy your conference for what it's worth and sell it for what y'all think it's worth I'd be taking a long vacation in short order.
How about we have selections that have rankings that actually make sense? Why don't we stop rewarding teams playing weak schedules? Why can't there be a weekly ranking that decides who gets in? Why don't we stop nepotism where a 24th team YSU(should've last team in according to NCAA rankings) gets bumped for UNH because UNH AD was a part of selection group?
To the bison fans that ignore this bias, what happens when we have a 7-8 win season and get left out of the playoffs? Will you tell me then that South Carolina state being included because of political correctness is right?

[ursus arctos horribilis]

How about we have selections that have rankings that actually make sense? Why don't we stop rewarding teams playing weak schedules? Why can't there be a weekly ranking that decides who gets in? Why don't we stop nepotism where a 24th team YSU(should've last team in according to NCAA rankings) gets bumped for UNH because UNH AD was a part of selection group?
To the bison fans that ignore this bias, what happens when we have a 7-8 win season and get left out of the playoffs? Will you tell me then that South Carolina state being included because of political correctness is right?

I will tell you at that point what I've been telling you and others all along. When you are one of the last in there is very little difference between you and any other candidates wanting to get in.

Some have a SOS schedule argument.

Some have a wins argument.

Some have an FBS win argument.

Some have a variety of other arguments for AND AGAINST and often times several other arguments all under one umbrella.

You know why those arguments are needed? Because they/your team/my team didn't settle them on the field. You want to argue about the 23rd, 24th, 25th best then feel free but you ain't gonna make any grand points cuz they are all ugly sisters at that point so which one do you have to take...what does it matter.

BTW, you keep mentioning nepotism, bias, etc. which are all nice buzz words that say "I didn't get my way" on an issue without really having any basis other than a good ol' word jumble to try and confuse without having any actual basis. So lay out your conspiracy on how having certain AD's (rotating) has meant something specifically about certain teams getting in or being left out. You don't have to show me something specific like a video of a committee member actually filling out other members ballots before he leaves the room for the others to vote on his team or anything but at least show me a trend related to specific cases of favoritism by the committee and the committee's makeup at those times.

That's the same ol' dumb BS that I've watched play out and flame out for many, many years around here and elsewhere.

Nepotism...jfc.

As I've said many times before I'd probably have taken YSU but at that point it might have been my bias wanting to believe they were better than another team selected. That could be what's affecting some of you as well. Bias.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

How about we have selections that have rankings that actually make sense? Why don't we stop rewarding teams playing weak schedules? Why can't there be a weekly ranking that decides who gets in? Why don't we stop nepotism where a 24th team YSU(should've last team in according to NCAA rankings) gets bumped for UNH because UNH AD was a part of selection group?
To the bison fans that ignore this bias, what happens when we have a 7-8 win season and get left out of the playoffs? Will you tell me then that South Carolina state being included because of political correctness is right?

Oh btw, I agree with the parts about a ranking system that makes more sense and is more open as to how it is figured. Got nothing against that idea at all.

[centennial]

I will tell you at that point what I've been telling you and others all along. When you are one of the last in there is very little difference between you and any other candidates wanting to get in.

Some have a SOS schedule argument.

Some have a wins argument.

Some have an FBS win argument.

Some have a variety of other arguments for AND AGAINST and often times several other arguments all under one umbrella.

You know why those arguments are needed? Because they/your team/my team didn't settle them on the field. You want to argue about the 23rd, 24th, 25th best then feel free but you ain't gonna make any grand points cuz they are all ugly sisters at that point so which one do you have to take...what does it matter.

BTW, you keep mentioning nepotism, bias, etc. which are all nice buzz words that say "I didn't get my way" on an issue without really having any basis other than a good ol' word jumble to try and confuse without having any actual basis. So lay out your conspiracy on how having certain AD's (rotating) has meant something specifically about certain teams getting in or being left out. You don't have to show me something specific like a video of a committee member actually filling out other members ballots before he leaves the room for the others to vote on his team or anything but at least show me a trend related to specific cases of favoritism by the committee and the committee's makeup at those times.

That's the same ol' dumb BS that I've watched play out and flame out for many, many years around here and elsewhere.

Nepotism...jfc.

As I've said many times before I'd probably have taken YSU but at that point it might have been my bias wanting to believe they were better than another team selected. That could be what's affecting some of you as well. Bias.
I agree there was little difference between the last few teams. It was subjective. It should NOT be subjective, the NCAA cannot have it both ways. Either they follow their horrible rankings, or pick teams looking at the facts and various ratings. The problem with the system is that it includes an inherent bias. AD's should not be the ones picking the teams. A system of rankings + unbiased committee should be doing this. Above all I just want transparency, the coaches and the players deserve it. No one should be punished for playing good football teams.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I agree there was little difference between the last few teams. It was subjective. It should NOT be subjective, the NCAA cannot have it both ways. Either they follow their horrible rankings, or pick teams looking at the facts and various ratings. The problem with the system is that it includes an inherent bias. AD's should not be the ones picking the teams. A system of rankings + unbiased committee should be doing this. Above all I just want transparency, the coaches and the players deserve it. No one should be punished for playing good football teams.

I don't disagree with you for the most part either. The inherent bias you speak of would or should also be present in something like the AGS Poll but as I've shown on several occasions (when voters weren't expecting it) there is not one where it would absolutely be EXPECTED and before I started publishing how conference voters cast their ballots the same thing you are accusing the committee of was bandied about here as a reason for why teams/conferences sat where they did.

At some point has there been a scumbag that tried to game the system...can't say "no" for sure of course but I can fairly confidently say that it is probably real rare.

I honestly think things in the committee are probably a lot like discussions here after a poll comes out and the lobbying previous to a poll vote. I think people generally want to get it right and make an effort to do that and often times just end up disagreeing about a few morsels while they get a real jusifiable overall finished product.

[SIUSalukiFan]

I agree there was little difference between the last few teams. It was subjective. It should NOT be subjective, the NCAA cannot have it both ways. Either they follow their horrible rankings, or pick teams looking at the facts and various ratings. The problem with the system is that it includes an inherent bias. AD's should not be the ones picking the teams. A system of rankings + unbiased committee should be doing this. Above all I just want transparency, the coaches and the players deserve it. No one should be punished for playing good football teams.

Great post.

As a fan I would have loved to see Southern Illinois in the playoffs last year. I do believe the Salukis were one of the top 24 teams in the country.

But, I can't complain too much about them not getting in ... although the OVC getting three teams in over the MVFC was a crime. :)

Use the rankings or lose them. Put together an unbiased committee. Pretty simple stuff.

[MR. CHICKEN]

The simple fact of the matter is -- and you've pointed this out before in other threads -- the only way the MVFC can consistently get more of its deserving teams in to the playoff is to increase the league membership to 12-14 teams. This allows the four best programs to have at least half of the schedule as "should be" wins, two games against the middling teams and two games against the other top programs.

That's the CAA/Big Sky model. That's why those leagues will (and have in the CAA's case) consistently gotten many teams in the playoffs.


19427.....WHAA'S DUH CAA MODEL AGIN'??........EVERAH SPORTS WRITER IN AMERICA.....CREDITS DUH CAA AS TOUGHEST CONFERENCE.......FROM TOP TA BOTTOM.........WE ROTATE CHAMPIONS ON UH YEARLAH BASIS....AN' WE SHOW UP....WHEN TAKEN TA DUH HOP........BRAWK!

[MR. CHICKEN]

Hey fella, I'm gonna need a "Harumph!" out of you for this post earlier saying this same thing.

19428.......SORRAH...POPPA BEAR.......OVERLOOKED/MISREAD......ER..UH...UHM....OUTTA EXCUSES......xembarrassedx....HARUMPH!

[skinny_uncle]

Great post.

As a fan I would have loved to see Southern Illinois in the playoffs last year. I do believe the Salukis were one of the top 24 teams in the country.

But, I can't complain too much about them not getting in ... although the OVC getting three teams in over the MVFC was a crime. :)

Use the rankings or lose them. Put together an unbiased committee. Pretty simple stuff.

Putting together an unbiased committee would probably be as tough as creating the playoff field itself.

[clenz]

Putting together an unbiased committee would probably be as tough as creating the playoff field itself.

Getting a committee that is willing to admit their bias and is able to look past their bias enough to get the correct field is every bit as good as an unbiased committee, IMO.

Everyone will have their bias. I'd rather it be in the open and be people that are willing to admit it but able to see past their bias.

[citdog]

19427.....WHAA'S DUH CAA MODEL AGIN'??........EVERAH SPORTS WRITER IN AMERICA.....CREDITS DUH CAA AS TOUGHEST CONFERENCE.......FROM TOP TA BOTTOM.........WE ROTATE CHAMPIONS ON UH YEARLAH BASIS....AN' WE SHOW UP....WHEN TAKEN TA DUH HOP........BRAWK!

It really is pretty ****ty when you can 'win' a league without playing the best teams year after year...... Our schedule, and record, would have been much better if we could have played EITHER appy OR pig's ass every season. Must be nice to be the 'champion' of something while being able to duck the best teams.....

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Montana State plays EWU this year and it's not a conference game...

[MR. CHICKEN]

It really is pretty ****ty when you can 'win' a league without playing the best teams year after year...... Our schedule, and record, would have been much better if we could have played EITHER appy OR pig's ass every season. Must be nice to be the 'champion' of something while being able to duck the best teams.....

19438........FAIR 'NUFF........SOMETIMES....OURAH CHAMPION......MAY NOT CATCH DUH FULL SLATE O' OURAH BEST.......HOWEVERAH.......WHOM EVERAH ENDS UP........CAA CHAMP........CERTAINLAH....DO NOT DUCK.....DUH BEST TEAMS.....IN PLAY-OFFS.....AN' LOTTAH DUH TIME.....GOES THRU 'EM....xnodx....AWK!

PS...AN' IFIN' OURAH CHAMP...DOESN'T BELONG 'CAUSE THEY DIDN'T PLAY EVERAH-ONE.........AN' STILL IS SUCCESSFUL.........DANCIN'..........MIGHT JES' BE DUH REASON....WHAA SOME OTHERAH CONFERENCE'S.......OWN-LAH GET UH COUPLE...REPRESENTATIVES... IN........xdontknowx.......BRAWK!

[MplsBison]

Chicken, the point was(is) that the CAA and now the Big Sky have quite a few teams in their league, which allows the four or so best teams to only have to play one or two of the other top teams each season.

That bolsters their conference record, since all four of them can go 6-2 or 7-1 in conference.

Hence why I outlined a proposal to boost the MVFC membership to 13 by adding two middling teams and two bottom tier teams. Then the MVFC's top four teams wouldn't have to play all of each other and then their records would be better thus enabling them all to be selected to the playoffs.

THAT's the CAA/(new)Big Sky model.

[MplsBison]

I would disagree. MVFC is more likely to expand to accommodate new potential Summit League schools who also need a football confernece.

Exactly why I proposed adding UND and EIU, as both would be perfect fits for the Summit League as well.

[MplsBison]

Drake and Butler want no part of the MVFC - Drakes been offered time and time again. There's a reason they are the only MVC school with football not in the MVFC. They are still hoping for the Dayton rule to get reversed.

EIU left the Valley because they couldn't compete, they aren't coming back and they sure as hell aren't leaving the OVC all sports for the Summit.

UND...just let's not even bring them into this.

There's no good way for the MVFC to get to 12 teams, and a snowballs chance in hell at 14.

Butler - you're pulling that out of your butt. You have no clue if they'd be interested or not. They were the PFL champion last season (and first ever representative in the playoffs) and could very well be interested in an opportunity to upgrade their program.

Drake - I believe you that they've been offered in the past and turned it down. But that's irrelevant since it would've been a long time ago. They may still turn down an opportunity, but the previous circumstance would be irrelevant to a new opportunity.

EIU - The previous circumstance is absolutely ancient history and irrelevant. They would've beat every MVFC team last season and given NDSU its best game if the weather cooperated. They won't be that good this year, but hardly a bottom tier MVFC team. Summit League would be vastly superior situation for them over the OVC, with whom they are incompatible from a geographical/cultural sense.

UND - perfect match geographically for the MVFC/Summit. Should be the case now.

[clenz]

You're a ****ing moron. Ursus, seriously, how much is the banhammer?

Drake, if they wanted to be in the MVFC would be. They want no part of the MVFC. Not in the past, not now, and less than .000000000000000001% chance in the future. They don't want to fund football. They don't want to be in a league that funds football. They want football so they can say that they have football but that's it. Tuition at Drake is roughly 35K. Drake isn't willing to shell out 2.2 million per year to fund scholarships, when they are making well over that in tuition being paid for by their participants. Couple that with the added costs of scholarships for women's sports. Drake will never go scholarship. Just as Dayton, Butler, or any other team that was around playing D3 ball when the Dayton rule was enacted. They want the money from football tuition to fund their other sports. It's not a "terrible" model of business. None of Drakes peers play scholarship football - hell, the majority of them don't even have football - Creighton, Bradley, Evansville, Fairfield, Hamlin, Loyola (MD), Loyola Marymount (CA), Loyola (LA), Provdidence, Quinnipiac, Sa\nta Clara, Seattle, St Joes, St Mary's, Xavier, Pacific Lutheran, Redlands, Hamlin, John Carroll are all without football. Butler, Mercer, and Elon are their only peer insitutions with football with Mercer just starting football (again).

And before you tell me I'm wrong with their "peers", that's straight from Drake's website http://www.drake.edu/ir/surveyresultsreports/drakepeerinstitutions/


When it comes to Butler - everything I just said about Drake you can put here. Butler didn't "win" the conference last year. San Diego would have won the conference last season had they not ruled them-self ineligible and Butler only got the autobid because they won a coin flip before the last week of the season was even played - I **** you not. They were then prompted curb stomped by an OVC, for the OVC's first playoff win in 14 years, in the first round.


EIU - I can't/won't speak on the "cultural incompatibility" but geographically they are much better off in the OVC

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/71/OhioValleyLocations.png/250px-OhioValleyLocations.pnghttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ac/SummitLeagueLocations_2011.png/400px-SummitLeagueLocations_2011.png

I don't care how you try to spin it, that's a geographic nightmare for EIU other than the alphabet Indiana schools and WIU. EIU is closer to Jackvsonville State (their furthest OVC trip @ 500 miles) than they are to Omana, the 3rd closest Summit team. As far as peer universities, EIU has as many SLC schools listed as they do MVFC schools. If peer universities are "like-minded academically and culturally" then EIU in no way belongs in the MVC. More D2, D3, Sun Belt, MWC, and SLC schools are peers than MVFC schools..and just 1 Summit school - Fresno State MWC, Georgia Southern (Sun Belt), UNI (MVC/MVFC), WIU (Summit/MVFC), UNLV (MWC), UL-Monroe (Sun Belt), SELA (SLC), St Cloud State (D2), Central Missouri State (D2), Appalachian State (Sun Belt), West Chester (D2), SHSU (SLC), JMU (CAA), Radford (Big South), WWU (D2), UW-Oshkosh (D3), and UW-Whitewater. Going back for the last decade in mens basketball the OVC and Summit are nearly identical...both 1 bid leagues with 1 or 2 upsets and a lot of nothing else. The MVC is more likely to pull Belmont from the OVC than the MVFC is any of the current OVC teams.


UND - again I won't touch. Been discussed for about 1500000k posts on this site. They don't want in the MVFC, the MVFC really doesn't want them. End of story.

[FargoBison]

Why would Drake and Butler want to join the MVFC when the NCAA has given their powderpuff league a completely undeserved playoff spot? Both of them have a solid shot at getting that bid, in the MVFC they have none. These schools are basketball driven and like Clenz said private, which means scholarship football is a very tough sell.

There is really no way to add teams to the valley. People can talk about UND but to add UND you need to balance it with an eastern team, I have a hard time coming up with such a team. So even if UND wanted to join, any talks of adding them is a nonstarter because a number of schools would object to the added travel. Gotta find that eastern team so you can split the league and make travel better.

[Bisonator]

Butler - you're pulling that out of your butt. You have no clue if they'd be interested or not. They were the PFL champion last season (and first ever representative in the playoffs) and could very well be interested in an opportunity to upgrade their program.

Drake - I believe you that they've been offered in the past and turned it down. But that's irrelevant since it would've been a long time ago. They may still turn down an opportunity, but the previous circumstance would be irrelevant to a new opportunity.

EIU - The previous circumstance is absolutely ancient history and irrelevant. They would've beat every MVFC team last season and given NDSU its best game if the weather cooperated. They won't be that good this year, but hardly a bottom tier MVFC team. Summit League would be vastly superior situation for them over the OVC, with whom they are incompatible from a geographical/cultural sense.

UND - perfect match geographically for the MVFC/Summit. Should be the case now.

xlmaox

[344Johnson]

xlmaox


Uh yeah. If your team is completely reliant on the weather being nice.... Good luck

[Lehigh'98]

Aside from NDSU, who would have beat EIU last year?

[dewey]

Aside from NDSU, who would have beat EIU last year?

I would say that the UNI team before they were riddled with injuries and SDSU. Let's not forget that SDSU took EIU to the wood shed the year before in Brookings.

Dewey

[Lehigh'98]

EIU would have been betting favorites in both of those games.

[clenz]

I would say that the UNI team before they were riddled with injuries and SDSU. Let's not forget that SDSU took EIU to the wood shed the year before in Brookings.

Dewey
EIU needed double OT to squeak by a mid-pack SIU team...

[Lehigh'98]

EIU needed double OT to squeak by a mid-pack SIU team...

The same SIU team that beat UNI at home. EIU beat them in Carbondale, historically a tough place to win. EIU was better than any other MVFC team last year save NDSU. They were 2 in country at end of regular season. They would have been favorites against any MVFC team.

[clenz]

The same SIU team that beat UNI at home. EIU beat them in Carbondale, historically a tough place to win. EIU was better than any other MVFC team last year save NDSU. They were 2 in country at end of regular season. They would have been favorites against any MVFC team.
EIU would have finished 3rd at best, in the MVFC.

NDSU, UNI, SIU, SDSU, and Illinois State all win the OVC last season.

[Lehigh'98]

EIU would have finished 3rd at best, in the MVFC.

NDSU, UNI, SIU, SDSU, and Illinois State all win the OVC last season.

Pure speculation based on biased opinion. Not saying there is no chance they lose, but Vegas is as unbiased as u get and they would be neutral field favorites against any single one of those teams.

[clenz]

Pure speculation based on biased opinion. Not saying there is no chance they lose, but Vegas is as unbiased as u get and they would be neutral field favorites against any single one of those teams.
Vegas cares about money, not who the better team is.

Using what a line would be to figure how who the better team would be is foolish.

Lines are about money, not talent.

[Lehigh'98]

They beat FBS SanDiegoSt and lost to a great NIU at their place by 4. They beat 2 MVFC teams and murdered everyone else til Towson. Nothing supports your argument of them finishing 3rd besides homerism.

[UNH Fanboi]

Chicken, the point was(is) that the CAA and now the Big Sky have quite a few teams in their league, which allows the four or so best teams to only have to play one or two of the other top teams each season.

That bolsters their conference record, since all four of them can go 6-2 or 7-1 in conference.

Hence why I outlined a proposal to boost the MVFC membership to 13 by adding two middling teams and two bottom tier teams. Then the MVFC's top four teams wouldn't have to play all of each other and then their records would be better thus enabling them all to be selected to the playoffs.

THAT's the CAA/(new)Big Sky model.

This argument that having more teams automatically leads to a weaker schedule and easy playoff bids needs to stop. The CAA had ONE more team than the MVFC last year. ONE. With the exception of NDSU, the CAA was as good as the MVFC last year. Look at the Sagarin ratings:

17. Ndsu
66. Towson
88. Villanova
89. New Hampshire
92. William & Mary
93. Uni
94. Sdsu
97. Siu
108. Younstown
109. Maine
111. Missouri st
124. Illinois st
126. Richmond
131. JMU
136. Stony brook
145. Delaware
159. Western Illinois
160. South Dakota
198. Indiana st.
206. URI
219. Albany

[BisonBacker]

They beat FBS SanDiegoSt and lost to a great NIU at their place by 4. They beat 2 MVFC teams and murdered everyone else til Towson. Nothing supports your argument of them finishing 3rd besides homerism.

Towson beat them and NDSU crushed Towson but struggled with UNI. SDSU was a tougher game than Towson. Both UNI and SDSU would have given them a hell of a game and I wouldn't necessarily have been betting on EIU to win either of those games. Not a biased opinion but a fact. Truth be told a Healthy UNI team I'd be betting money on them to win that game 7 days a week and twice on Sundays.

[UNH Fanboi]

Vegas cares about money, not who the better team is.

Using what a line would be to figure how who the better team would be is foolish.

Lines are about money, not talent.

Sagarin's predictor rating of EIU was 77. The next highest MVFC team, UNI, was 64. That means EIU would have been favored by 13 points on a neutral field. That has nothing to do with money.

[UNH Fanboi]

Towson beat them and NDSU crushed Towson but struggled with UNI. SDSU was a tougher game than Towson. Both UNI and SDSU would have given them a hell of a game and I wouldn't necessarily have been betting on EIU to win either of those games. Not a biased opinion but a fact. Truth be told a Healthy UNI team I'd be betting money on them to win that game 7 days a week and twice on Sundays.

Ah, the mythical uninjured UNI team. Could have hung in there with FSU.

[dewey]

I still say SDSU was better then EIU last year. SDSU is a power running similar to Towson and West ran the ball down EIU's throat. SDSU did that to EIU in the 2012 playoffs.

IMHO EIU is somewhere in 5 he 2nd to 4th range of last year's MVFC teams.

Dewey

[BisonBacker]

Ah, the mythical uninjured UNI team. Could have hung in there with FSU.

Nothing mythical about it. I saw that team play before injuries and they should have beat us. Hell the team that UNI had at the end of the year I'd put money on over the UNH team I saw play against NDSU.

[Lehigh'98]

Ah, the mythical uninjured UNI team. Could have hung in there with FSU.

UNI with no injuries - 73, 85 Bears - 2

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I still say SDSU was better then EIU last year. SDSU is a power running similar to Towson and West ran the ball down EIU's throat. SDSU did that to EIU in the 2012 playoffs.

IMHO EIU is somewhere in 5 he 2nd to 4th range of last year's MVFC teams.

Dewey

Dino Babers in his first year vs. his second year and you think that first playoff game is a good indicator?

Seriously?

EIU was at least as good as the second team in the MVFC and I'd go with better. You MVFC guys gotta stop giving your brothers reach arounds with how tough you were. It's embarrassing to watch.

NDSU was great, the rest were no better than the other top teams out there. I don't care how tough they played you, it doesn't mean jack squat. That is a silly, ill thought out disease that has infected the NDSU crowd so y'all ought to try and inoculate yourselves from it.

Sorry Dewey I was lazy and retorting to several posts I've seen so that's not all for you my friend. xlolx

[MR. CHICKEN]

Towson beat them and NDSU crushed Towson but struggled with UNI. SDSU was a tougher game than Towson. Both UNI and SDSU would have given them a hell of a game and I wouldn't necessarily have been betting on EIU to win either of those games. Not a biased opinion but a fact. Truth be told a Healthy UNI team I'd be betting money on them to win that game 7 days a week and twice on Sundays.


19471.......CONFERENCE FAMILIARITY.....TOWSON JES' HAD UH MOVIE.......AWK!

LAST YEARS PLAY-OFFS.........E. WASHINGTON 41- SOUFF DAKOTA STATE 17............TOWSON 35- E. WASHINGTON 31.........BRAWK!

[MR. CHICKEN]

This argument that having more teams automatically leads to a weaker schedule and easy playoff bids needs to stop. The CAA had ONE more team than the MVFC last year. ONE. With the exception of NDSU, the CAA was as good as the MVFC last year. Look at the Sagarin ratings:

17. Ndsu
88. Villanova
89. New Hampshire
92. William & Mary
93. Uni
94. Sdsu
97. Siu
108. Younstown
109. Maine
111. Missouri st
124. Illinois st
126. Richmond
131. JMU
145. Delaware
159. Western Illinois
160. South Dakota
198. Indiana st.
206. URI
219. Albany

19472.........WHERE WAS TOWSON...xconfusedx........AWK!

[UNH Fanboi]

19472.........WHERE WAS TOWSON...xconfusedx........AWK!

thanks chicken, i edited it. Left out stony Brook too.

[Cocky]

EIU would have finished 3rd at best, in the MVFC.

NDSU, UNI, SIU, SDSU, and Illinois State all win the OVC last season.

the same SIU team that couldn't beat EIU at home? The same SDSU team that got blown out by EWU in the playoffs? The same UNI that loss to MSU who couldn't beat SIU? The same ISUr team who couldn't beat EIU?

The same league which had a losing record vs the OVC last year?

hard to understand the logic other than your a homer for the MVC. EIU was better than anyone other than NDSU as where JSU and Tn St. Middle of the pack Murray defeated a top teir MVC team in MSU.

[Cocky]

Towson beat them and NDSU crushed Towson but struggled with UNI. SDSU was a tougher game than Towson. Both UNI and SDSU would have given them a hell of a game and I wouldn't necessarily have been betting on EIU to win either of those games. Not a biased opinion but a fact. Truth be told a Healthy UNI team I'd be betting money on them to win that game 7 days a week and twice on Sundays.

EIU beat ISUr by 33, NDSU beat ISUr by 18 so your saying EIU would have defeated NDSU last year?

[KUlawJack]

The 2014 season cannot start soon enough. xarguex

xthumbsupx

[BisonTru]

the same SIU team that couldn't beat EIU at home? The same SDSU team that got blown out by EWU in the playoffs? The same UNI that loss to MSU who couldn't beat SIU? The same ISUr team who couldn't beat EIU?

The same league which had a losing record vs the OVC last year?

hard to understand the logic other than your a homer for the MVC. EIU was better than anyone other than NDSU as where JSU and Tn St. Middle of the pack Murray defeated a top teir MVC team in MSU.

I agree Eastern Illinois most likely ends up second in the Valley, but Tennessee State wouldn't have finished in the top half. Jacksonville State probably misses the playoffs and ends up between 4th to 6th.

Final Sagarin Rankings:

17. NDSU
46. EIU
93. UNI
94. SDSU
97. SIU
101. JSU
108. YSU
120. TSU

[Lehigh'98]

I agree Eastern Illinois most likely ends up second in the Valley, but Tennessee State wouldn't have finished in the top half. Jacksonville State probably misses the playoffs and ends up between 4th to 6th.

Final Sagarin Rankings:

17. NDSU
46. EIU
93. UNI
94. SDSU
97. SIU
108. YSU
101. JSU
120. TSU

Fair enough, just wanted 1 MVFC poster to recognize EIU would have been a solid, probable 2nd place Valley team last year.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I agree Eastern Illinois most likely ends up second in the Valley, but Tennessee State wouldn't have finished in the top half. Jacksonville State probably misses the playoffs and ends up between 4th to 6th.

Final Sagarin Rankings:

17. NDSU
46. EIU
93. UNI
94. SDSU
97. SIU
101. JSU
108. YSU
120. TSU

Taking a longer look at those rankings I wouldn't be able to say with any confidence that 93, 94. 97, are really any different on the field than 101. Point being those teams are all really close in the rankings so being objective as you have been is good to see.

I hope that spreads around the MVFC cuz as I said the other stuff is or at least should be an embarrassment.

[Bisonator]

Aside from NDSU, who would have beat EIU last year?

Well since you asked I'd take NDSU, SDSU & UNI over EIU at least. Of course "weather permitting". Haha that's what I was really laughing at because Mpls keeps harping on the weather thing like every game should be played when it's 65 degrees, partly cloudy and no wind. Not to mention no crowd noise, neutral field, grass or turf depending on which suits Mpls team at the time. Etc. Etc. Etc. :D

[BisonBacker]

19471.......CONFERENCE FAMILIARITY.....TOWSON JES' HAD UH MOVIE.......AWK!

LAST YEARS PLAY-OFFS.........E. WASHINGTON 41- SOUFF DAKOTA STATE 17............TOWSON 35- E. WASHINGTON 31.........BRAWK!

Fair enough on the SDSU comparison my comments were more directed toward UNI. Having seen all the teams except EIU and E. Wash that have been bantered about I'm sticking with UNI being a better team and I'd say that was hands down if they stayed healthy. They played NDSU the toughest of all games NDSU played including the playoffs sans K State. I'm not a big Sagarin guy and to me it's more so for fans to try to puff out their chests especially to compare themselves to teams either they don't play or are in different divisions. Either way anyone knocking the quality of play in the valley is full of it.

[BisonBacker]

Taking a longer look at those rankings I wouldn't be able to say with any confidence that 93, 94. 97, are really any different on the field than 101. Point being those teams are all really close in the rankings so being objective as you have been is good to see.

I hope that spreads around the MVFC cuz as I said the other stuff is or at least should be an embarrassment.

You think sticking up for the conference you are in if you truly believe the quality of play is above another conference should be reason for embarrassment? Wow everyone on this damned board ought to stick their head in the sand then! I have no problem with the fact that guys say win the dam games and you are in but that's easier said than done in the MVFC as opposed to some of the other conferences where competition isn't so stiff. Not saying either that every FCS conference is like that but there are some. As another poster said I can't wait for the season to start.

[Cocky]

I agree Eastern Illinois most likely ends up second in the Valley, but Tennessee State wouldn't have finished in the top half. Jacksonville State probably misses the playoffs and ends up between 4th to 6th.

Final Sagarin Rankings:

17. NDSU
46. EIU
93. UNI
94. SDSU
97. SIU
101. JSU
108. YSU
120. TSU

JSU at the start of the year would have finished closer to 6. JSU at playoff time would have been closer to 2.

[BisonTru]

JSU at the start of the year would have finished closer to 6. JSU at playoff time would have been closer to 2.

They were definitely a bubble team for me. I would have been fine if they were left out. However, they proved they belonged in the field with their playoff run.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

[gotts]

the same SIU team that couldn't beat EIU at home? The same SDSU team that got blown out by EWU in the playoffs? The same UNI that loss to MSU who couldn't beat SIU? The same ISUr team who couldn't beat EIU?

The same league which had a losing record vs the OVC last year?

hard to understand the logic other than your a homer for the MVC. EIU was better than anyone other than NDSU as where JSU and Tn St. Middle of the pack Murray defeated a top teir MVC team in MSU.


Who is calling MSU top tier?

[UNH Fanboi]

Who is calling MSU top tier?



Originally Posted by centennial:
"Missouri State at the end of the year was also as good as UNH."

I'd say comparing them to a semi-finalist is equivalent to calling them top tier.

[UNH Fanboi]

Fair enough on the SDSU comparison my comments were more directed toward UNI. Having seen all the teams except EIU and E. Wash that have been bantered about I'm sticking with UNI being a better team and I'd say that was hands down if they stayed healthy. They played NDSU the toughest of all games NDSU played including the playoffs sans K State. I'm not a big Sagarin guy and to me it's more so for fans to try to puff out their chests especially to compare themselves to teams either they don't play or are in different divisions. Either way anyone knocking the quality of play in the valley is full of it.

Nobody's knocking the quality of play in the MVFC. We're just countering some outrageous statements made by some MVFC fans.

[semobison]

Fair enough, just wanted 1 MVFC poster to recognize EIU would have been a solid, probable 2nd place Valley team last year.

When SDSU beat EIU 58-10 in the 2012 playoffs, Zenner ran for 295! EIU had a damn good team last year but the Jacks would have taken them to the woodshed again. Its all about match ups!

[Lehigh'98]

As was stated earlier by Ursus, EIU was much better in 2013 than 2012 in Babers 2nd yr. EIU beat teams that were better than SDSU including the FBS SDSU. The 2012 game proves nothing and EIU would have been a significant favorite. Not to say the Jacks couldn't have won, EIU was without a doubt, absolutely clearly the better team last year. They were better than any team in the Valley except NDSU. You can have your opinions, but the fact is they were better.

[Houndawg]

As was stated earlier by Ursus, EIU was much better in 2013 than 2012 in Babers 2nd yr. EIU beat teams that were better than SDSU including the FBS SDSU. The 2012 game proves nothing and EIU would have been a significant favorite. Not to say the Jacks couldn't have won, EIU was without a doubt, absolutely clearly the better team last year. They were better than any team in the Valley except NDSU. You can have your opinions, but the fact is they were better.

Meh. I'd say that 2OT suggests they were pretty evenly matched with SIU, win or lose.

[Bisonator]

As was stated earlier by Ursus, EIU was much better in 2013 than 2012 in Babers 2nd yr. EIU beat teams that were better than SDSU including the FBS SDSU. The 2012 game proves nothing and EIU would have been a significant favorite. Not to say the Jacks couldn't have won, EIU was without a doubt, absolutely clearly the better team last year. They were better than any team in the Valley except NDSU. You can have your opinions, but the fact is they were better.

What are you basing your "fact" on?

[Pant8her]

Well if ifs were ifs and so on we could argue this for days and weeks...

OH WAIT WE ALREADY HAVE! Its over lets learn from the mistakes and move along...

With this said, I will state the UNI did not deserve to be in the playoffs regardless if they "would have been able" to beat half the field. The argument for potential can go onward.

UNI was devastated by the injury to Farley in the NDSU game, which took an emotional drain on the team. OK, lose one game because of it, but if they are not deep enough to fill the position well then to me the blame goes on the coaching staff. In this case SIU came and literally beat UNI, where UNI was lucky to go to OT. SIU deserved to win this game.
The next game against USD, UNI blew the lead and gave the game away to lose in 2 OT. IF UNI wins this game UNI goes to playoffs. Once again the burden falls to the staff by letting USD back into the game. This constituted the third lose in a row.
The game against SDSU, was a battle of two good teams and once again it went to OT for the third week in a row. Once again UNI let this one slowly slip away. Four loses in a row. But if UNI wins out they could still have been in the playoffs.
The last loss against Ill St was IMO just out frustration and exhaustion from the previous four losses. Game over for the playoffs (period!)

I know the argument, to some maybe a partial credit should be given to a team that goes to OT and loses and win credit to the victor in OT (kind of similar to hockey). But once in the playoffs the game is over.

So to sum it all up, just win the games and don't leave things to chance, even though some teams have to rely on chance because of circumstances.

The playoffs are why I love FCS football, and for the most part there are many intelligent fans (albeit mostly homers for their respective teams and then conferences).

[semobison]

As was stated earlier by Ursus, EIU was much better in 2013 than 2012 in Babers 2nd yr. EIU beat teams that were better than SDSU including the FBS SDSU. The 2012 game proves nothing and EIU would have been a significant favorite. Not to say the Jacks couldn't have won, EIU was without a doubt, absolutely clearly the better team last year. They were better than any team in the Valley except NDSU. You can have your opinions, but the fact is they were better.

48 points better than the year before? Facts?? Football is all about matchups. SDSU IMO was too physical for EIU in 12 and most likely would have been last year. You don't have facts, you have an opinion.

[MplsBison]

You're a ****ing moron. Ursus, seriously, how much is the banhammer?

Drake, if they wanted to be in the MVFC would be. They want no part of the MVFC. Not in the past, not now, and less than .000000000000000001% chance in the future. They don't want to fund football. They don't want to be in a league that funds football. They want football so they can say that they have football but that's it. Tuition at Drake is roughly 35K. Drake isn't willing to shell out 2.2 million per year to fund scholarships, when they are making well over that in tuition being paid for by their participants. Couple that with the added costs of scholarships for women's sports. Drake will never go scholarship. Just as Dayton, Butler, or any other team that was around playing D3 ball when the Dayton rule was enacted. They want the money from football tuition to fund their other sports. It's not a "terrible" model of business. None of Drakes peers play scholarship football - hell, the majority of them don't even have football - Creighton, Bradley, Evansville, Fairfield, Hamlin, Loyola (MD), Loyola Marymount (CA), Loyola (LA), Provdidence, Quinnipiac, Sa\nta Clara, Seattle, St Joes, St Mary's, Xavier, Pacific Lutheran, Redlands, Hamlin, John Carroll are all without football. Butler, Mercer, and Elon are their only peer insitutions with football with Mercer just starting football (again).

And before you tell me I'm wrong with their "peers", that's straight from Drake's website http://www.drake.edu/ir/surveyresultsreports/drakepeerinstitutions/


When it comes to Butler - everything I just said about Drake you can put here. Butler didn't "win" the conference last year. San Diego would have won the conference last season had they not ruled them-self ineligible and Butler only got the autobid because they won a coin flip before the last week of the season was even played - I **** you not. They were then prompted curb stomped by an OVC, for the OVC's first playoff win in 14 years, in the first round.


EIU - I can't/won't speak on the "cultural incompatibility" but geographically they are much better off in the OVC

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/71/OhioValleyLocations.png/250px-OhioValleyLocations.pnghttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ac/SummitLeagueLocations_2011.png/400px-SummitLeagueLocations_2011.png

I don't care how you try to spin it, that's a geographic nightmare for EIU other than the alphabet Indiana schools and WIU. EIU is closer to Jackvsonville State (their furthest OVC trip @ 500 miles) than they are to Omana, the 3rd closest Summit team. As far as peer universities, EIU has as many SLC schools listed as they do MVFC schools. If peer universities are "like-minded academically and culturally" then EIU in no way belongs in the MVC. More D2, D3, Sun Belt, MWC, and SLC schools are peers than MVFC schools..and just 1 Summit school - Fresno State MWC, Georgia Southern (Sun Belt), UNI (MVC/MVFC), WIU (Summit/MVFC), UNLV (MWC), UL-Monroe (Sun Belt), SELA (SLC), St Cloud State (D2), Central Missouri State (D2), Appalachian State (Sun Belt), West Chester (D2), SHSU (SLC), JMU (CAA), Radford (Big South), WWU (D2), UW-Oshkosh (D3), and UW-Whitewater. Going back for the last decade in mens basketball the OVC and Summit are nearly identical...both 1 bid leagues with 1 or 2 upsets and a lot of nothing else. The MVC is more likely to pull Belmont from the OVC than the MVFC is any of the current OVC teams.


UND - again I won't touch. Been discussed for about 1500000k posts on this site. They don't want in the MVFC, the MVFC really doesn't want them. End of story.

Fine, forget Drake and Butler. The MVFC has 10 and getting to 12 is good enough (as I'll explain in my next post).

EIU and UND, with corresponding memberships to the Summit League, gets it done.


In the OVC, EIU has no one to partner with and no one to identify with. It's Kentucky, Tennessee and Alabama schools, other than a St. Louis school (with no football) and a SE Missouri school that identifies with the south. EIU is firmly a northern, midwest school.

In the MVFC eastern half they'd have an OH school, an IN school (that is less than 100 miles away) and THREE other IL schools.

In the Summit eastern portion, they'd have WIU as an all-sports rivalry and the two IN schools.

It's by no means a slam dunk case for them to move from the OVC, but it's possible they could be recruited.


UND is obvious why they'd benefit instead of the Big Sky. Geography. Nothing more needs to be said.

[MplsBison]

This argument that having more teams automatically leads to a weaker schedule and easy playoff bids needs to stop. The CAA had ONE more team than the MVFC last year. ONE. With the exception of NDSU, the CAA was as good as the MVFC last year. Look at the Sagarin ratings:

17. Ndsu
66. Towson
88. Villanova
89. New Hampshire
92. William & Mary
93. Uni
94. Sdsu
97. Siu
108. Younstown
109. Maine
111. Missouri st
124. Illinois st
126. Richmond
131. JMU
136. Stony brook
145. Delaware
159. Western Illinois
160. South Dakota
198. Indiana st.
206. URI
219. Albany

It's really this easy:

12 team conference: each of the top four teams plays each of the remaining eight teams. Thus, all four of the top teams can go 8-0 in the conference schedule.

9 team conference: each of the top four teams plays every other team in the conference. Thus, the best scenario possible for the top four teams is 8-0, 7-1, 6-2 and 5-3.


There is no argument to refute that.

[UNH Fanboi]

It's really this easy:

12 team conference: each of the top four teams plays each of the remaining eight teams. Thus, all four of the top teams can go 8-0 in the conference schedule.

9 team conference: each of the top four teams plays every other team in the conference. Thus, the best scenario possible for the top four teams is 8-0, 7-1, 6-2 and 5-3.


There is no argument to refute that.

Yeah, cause it always works out that the top teams all don't play each other. xrolleyesx

It's equally likely for all the top teams to miss the 3 weakest teams.

On average, teams will not have easier schedule simply because they are in a bigger conference.

[SIUSalukiFan]

Nobody's knocking the quality of play in the MVFC. We're just countering some outrageous statements made by some MVFC fans.

This MVFC fan has no problem admitting Eastern Illinois would have been the No. 2 team in the conference last year. The Panthers were damn good. I'm not sure why so many of my conference brethren want to belittle them.

I also believe a healthy UNI would have beaten the Seattle Seahawks.

[lionsrking2]

48 points better than the year before? Facts?? Football is all about matchups. SDSU IMO was too physical for EIU in 12 and most likely would have been last year. You don't have facts, you have an opinion.

It can happen. Sam Houston beat us 70-0 in 2012 ... we beat them twice in 2013, by scores of 34-21 and 30-29.

[URMite]

It's really this easy:

12 team conference: each of the top four teams plays each of the remaining eight teams. Thus, all four of the top teams can go 8-0 in the conference schedule.

9 team conference: each of the top four teams plays every other team in the conference. Thus, the best scenario possible for the top four teams is 8-0, 7-1, 6-2 and 5-3.


There is no argument to refute that.

ignoring the fact that the teams missed on each schedule are random...

You are assuming that teams 5-8 are the same in the 9 vs 12 team conference.

Back when the CAA first expanded, we added 3 SDSUs not 3 ISU-b s.

So explain how adding a 2nd game against SDSU by replacing WIU makes it easier for SIU to make the playoffs?

[clenz]

ignoring the fact that the teams missed on each schedule are random...

You are assuming that teams 5-8 are the same in the 9 vs 12 team conference.

Back when the CAA first expanded, we added 3 SDSUs not 3 ISU-b s.

So explain how adding a 2nd game against SDSU by replacing WIU makes it easier for SIU to make the playoffs?
You're trying to use reason with mpls...just stop.

[BisonBacker]

What are you basing your "fact" on?

His opinions are "facts" and all others opinions are just that "opinions" in his world.

[Lehigh'98]

His opinions are "facts" and all others opinions are just that "opinions" in his world.

Fact was perhaps too harsh of a word. Let's just say any logical interpretation of football or ranking system for last season. Also, this doesn't need to be dragged on any further, you guys can have your pro MVFC opinions. IMO (useless as it is) its the 2nd best conference top to bottom, behind the CAA (but very close). I just wanted to point out that there isn't much substance behind the anti-EIU sentiment for last year aside from prior years history.

[BisonBacker]

Fact was perhaps too harsh of a word. Let's just say any logical interpretation of football or ranking system for last season. Also, this doesn't need to be dragged on any further, you guys can have your pro MVFC opinions. IMO (useless as it is) its the 2nd best conference top to bottom, behind the CAA (but very close). I just wanted to point out that there isn't much substance behind the anti-EIU sentiment for last year aside from prior years history.

You sure you want to go there?

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t114/bri4878/sagconfrankings2013_zps16b61dfb.gif

[Lehigh'98]

Your rankings are for conferences. I clearly stated my opinion of the MVFC as 2nd best, close to the CAA, was both useless and my own opinion.

My logical interpretation referred to EIU being ranked above all other MVFC teams last year other except NDSU. So use any ranking system available from last year and it will show EIU ahead of all MVFC teams except NDSU.

I'm not trying to take away from the MVFC as a conference, just saying for last year, you guys are overrating teams compared to EIU.

[BisonBacker]

Well you talk about logical conclusions or interpretations and ranking systems and I provided one and now you come up with well it's just my opinion that the CAA is a better conference yet using the often quoted sagarin rankings showing the MVFC "logically" is ranked higher. So which is it? I think you take the idea that many MVFC folks/posters who watch these teams play and follow FCS football have a great deal of respect for the quality of the MVFC and take that as disrespect for EIU. They are a good team. Based on last years teams I saw (from the MVFC) I would have placed them 3rd or 4th. As to the other comment about which is the best conference you have an opinion as do I and I just think you are wrong on which is the best conference and "logical" rankings back up my position.

[centennial]

Your rankings are for conferences. I clearly stated my opinion of the MVFC as 2nd best, close to the CAA, was both useless and my own opinion.

My logical interpretation referred to EIU being ranked above all other MVFC teams last year other except NDSU. So use any ranking system available from last year and it will show EIU ahead of all MVFC teams except NDSU.

I'm not trying to take away from the MVFC as a conference, just saying for last year, you guys are overrating teams compared to EIU.
It is subjective. Could EIU be the 2nd MVFC team last year? Yes. However, they would have to face a harder in conference schedule. No one knows how that would play out. I watch a lot of FCS football, outside of last year EIU would place 3rd-6th MVFC most years. They would never come back to the MVFC, they would struggle to get into the playoffs with 2-3 teams that we get. On the other hand with OVC they have 2 hard in conference games to think about.

[MplsBison]

Yeah, cause it always works out that the top teams all don't play each other. xrolleyesx

It's equally likely for all the top teams to miss the 3 weakest teams.

On average, teams will not have easier schedule simply because they are in a bigger conference.

Conference 1: UNH + 11 Pioneer teams, Conf 2: UNH + best three remaining CAA teams + 8 Pioneer teams, Conf 3: UNH + best three remaining CAA teams + 4 Pioneer teams.

On average, UNH has the easiest schedule in 1, then 2, then 3.


Now I do understand that a conference with 12 strong teams and a conference with 9 strong teams won't produce any different strength of conference schedule on average. If that were the case, then you'd be right. But that's not how it often ends up.


And the thing you can't refute no matter what you say: it is possible for a 12 team conference (with 8 conference games) to have four teams go 8-0 in conference play. That is impossible in a 9 team conference (with 8 conference games).

[MplsBison]

ignoring the fact that the teams missed on each schedule are random...

You are assuming that teams 5-8 are the same in the 9 vs 12 team conference.

Back when the CAA first expanded, we added 3 SDSUs not 3 ISU-b s.

So explain how adding a 2nd game against SDSU by replacing WIU makes it easier for SIU to make the playoffs?

Because the teams I proposed adding (UND for the west, EIU for the east) would be middling teams when they entered the league. The top teams should beat them.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

It is subjective. Could EIU be the 2nd MVFC team last year? Yes. However, they would have to face a harder in conference schedule. No one knows how that would play out. I watch a lot of FCS football, outside of last year EIU would place 3rd-6th MVFC most years. They would never come back to the MVFC, they would struggle to get into the playoffs with 2-3 teams that we get. On the other hand with OVC they have 2 hard in conference games to think about.

This, no way EIU would give up the squishy OVC for the MVFC.

[skinny_uncle]

This, no way EIU would give up the squishy OVC for the MVFC.

Pretty much what I said about Murray State when they were good. Wait. Maybe that was basketball.
xdontknowx

[centennial]

Pretty much what I said about Murray State when they were good. Wait. Maybe that was basketball.
xdontknowx
Outside of NFL caliber QB's, most years I would expect EIU to struggle to be top 4. No reason for them to jump back.

[Houndawg]

Outside of NFL caliber QB's, most years I would expect EIU to struggle to be top 4. No reason for them to jump back.

They left because they couldn't compete in the Gateway.

[Cocky]

Outside of NFL caliber QB's, most years I would expect EIU to struggle to be top 4. No reason for them to jump back.

Especially considering the MVC won exactly zero games against the top 7 teams in the OVC last year but the MVC didn't lose any to the bottom 2 teams.

[MplsBison]

Outside of NFL caliber QB's, most years I would expect EIU to struggle to be top 4. No reason for them to jump back.

Maybe.

But on the other hand, by offering them a Summit/MVFC membership they get a true all-sports rival in Western Illinois (think: the Western-Eastern Cup, sponsored by [Illinois company]) and they get football games against Western IL (180mi), Southern IL (150mi) and IL State (100mi) every year along with IN St every year (the closest DI football program to Charleston -- both IN St and the U of IL are about 50 mi. away).

In comparison, the closest OVC football programs to Charleston are SEMO (200mi), UT Martin/Austin Peay/Murray St (all about 250mi) and Eastern KY (330mi). And those are all southern schools by culture, while EIU is a midwestern/northern school.


So it's not a slam dunk case by any means, but it does have merit and it is possible to recruit them away from the OVC.


Douple would be very wise to be working with Patty, convincing her why the MVFC needs 12 teams and to offer UND and EIU membership.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Especially considering the MVC won exactly zero games against the top 7 teams in the OVC last year but the MVC didn't lose any to the bottom 2 teams.


Historically the OVC is a weak conference.

Top to bottom the MV is a tougher conference.

[centennial]

Especially considering the MVC won exactly zero games against the top 7 teams in the OVC last year but the MVC didn't lose any to the bottom 2 teams.
Because you having one good year makes OVC better than MVFC. Even then MVFC is rated above your league and most years OVC isn't in the same ballpark as MVFC. Remember your playoff record before this year.

[centennial]

Maybe.

But on the other hand, by offering them a Summit/MVFC membership they get a true all-sports rival in Western Illinois (think: the Western-Eastern Cup, sponsored by [Illinois company]) and they get football games against Western IL (180mi), Southern IL (150mi) and IL State (100mi) every year along with IN St every year (the closest DI football program to Charleston -- both IN St and the U of IL are about 50 mi. away).

In comparison, the closest OVC football programs to Charleston are SEMO (200mi), UT Martin/Austin Peay/Murray St (all about 250mi) and Eastern KY (330mi). And those are all southern schools by culture, while EIU is a midwestern/northern school.


So it's not a slam dunk case by any means, but it does have merit and it is possible to recruit them away from the OVC.


Douple would be very wise to be working with Patty, convincing her why the MVFC needs 12 teams and to offer UND and EIU membership.
How many times do we have to go over this? Both EIU and UND are not going to the summit/mvfc. You just want to see UND play NDSU every year.

[MplsBison]

How many times do we have to go over this? Both EIU and UND are not going to the summit/mvfc. You just want to see UND play NDSU every year.

Maybe.

Or perhaps Douple and Patty will actively recruit them from their current conferences to come over to the MVFC/Summit. Lateral conference movements do happen at the top end of a (sub)division, as evidenced by Colorado moving from the Big XII to the Pac 12.


You don't know, just like I don't know - hence why we both resort to an internet message board to have our opinions heard. And hence why I'll continue to bring up the possibility as I please. If you don't like it, I don't care.

[centennial]

Maybe.

Or perhaps Douple and Patty will actively recruit them from their current conferences to come over to the MVFC/Summit. Lateral conference movements do happen at the top end of a (sub)division, as evidenced by Colorado moving from the Big XII to the Pac 12.


You don't know, just like I don't know - hence why we both resort to an internet message board to have our opinions heard. And hence why I'll continue to bring up the possibility as I please. If you don't like it, I don't care.
I would rather raid the top DII teams. We have more chance of that happening than UND or EIU to Summit/MVFC. In the long run I would expect those teams to compete well.

[Cocky]

Because you having one good year makes OVC better than MVFC. Even then MVFC is rated above your league and most years OVC isn't in the same ballpark as MVFC. Remember your playoff record before this year.

History has little to do with the current teams. Plus remove NDSU from the MVC or add their numbers to the OVC and it would look greatly different. NDSU has been dominate the last few years well above anyone else in FCS. They would skew any conferences numbers.

I don't thing the OVC is better top to bottom conference than the OVC but I do believe EIU had a helluva good team last year. Last year, if the above rating are correct, the OVC was the third rated conference and got three bids which seems fair. It was the first time the OVC had gotten more than two plus it's was an expanded playoff field. Should the MVC have gotten more than two, who knows but the OVC last year had three teams deserving. Will the OVC have three deserving this year? We will find out or it maybe the MVCs year for four or five but the best way to make the playoffs is to win not talk about how great we are.

[frozennorth]

Maybe.

But on the other hand, by offering them a Summit/MVFC membership they get a true all-sports rival in Western Illinois (think: the Western-Eastern Cup, sponsored by [Illinois company]) and they get football games against Western IL (180mi), Southern IL (150mi) and IL State (100mi) every year along with IN St every year (the closest DI football program to Charleston -- both IN St and the U of IL are about 50 mi. away).

In comparison, the closest OVC football programs to Charleston are SEMO (200mi), UT Martin/Austin Peay/Murray St (all about 250mi) and Eastern KY (330mi). And those are all southern schools by culture, while EIU is a midwestern/northern school.


So it's not a slam dunk case by any means, but it does have merit and it is possible to recruit them away from the OVC.


Douple would be very wise to be working with Patty, convincing her why the MVFC needs 12 teams and to offer UND and EIU membership.
this actually is a good argument by mpls.

[frozennorth]

As was stated earlier by Ursus, EIU was much better in 2013 than 2012 in Babers 2nd yr. EIU beat teams that were better than SDSU including the FBS SDSU. The 2012 game proves nothing and EIU would have been a significant favorite. Not to say the Jacks couldn't have won, EIU was without a doubt, absolutely clearly the better team last year. They were better than any team in the Valley except NDSU. You can have your opinions, but the fact is they were better.
I think EIU-Towson should give some insight into how they would do against SDSU. Towson ran wild and won by ten, just like SDSU did last year. Zenner isn't West, but both teams are built to do the same thing and do it with comparable competency. EIU would have been somewhere between second and forth depending on how they held up in a better and deeper league. That said, the OVC deserved its three playoffs teams. The problem was SUU.

[344Johnson]

I'll keep this short and simple. I think that in any given year.... With a 24 team field.... The MVFC deserves at least 3 teams in. Maybe 4 in a good year.

I don't drink the kool aid like some do. I think our schools provide some of the best teams... But I really don't buy into the "We are awesome because we have kept scores reasonable with NDSU" deal.

Looking at it that way... Notre Dame would have been a mediocre SEC team a couple years ago when they got smashed by Bama..... Certainly not the case.

[GABison]

UND and EIU would be good additions to the Summit/MVF conferences. The MVC doesn't want the Dakota's, they picked Loyola to replace Creighton, so screw them. Without Creighton, the MVC isn't near as sexy anymore. The MVC could get real interesting if Wichita State bolts. If we were to pick up just one or the other of UND or EIU, the Summit could be very solid. It would be the NCC 2.0 and I don't have a problem with that.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

this actually is a good argument by mpls.


Ya it is.

I went to grad school at EIU in 93-94 and they were in the Gateway at the time. Fans loved having ILL State, UNI, Southern Ill, Western Ill and Ind State on the schedule (conference). Travel was a lot shorter. But as clenz and houndawg mentioned, EIU was getting pounded in conference and decided to leave for the softer OVC. IMO, there is a very slim chance they will ever come back to the Valley/Summit.

[MplsBison]

I would rather raid the top DII teams. We have more chance of that happening than UND or EIU to Summit/MVFC. In the long run I would expect those teams to compete well.

Perhaps (and more so UND than EIU), but not when they would first enter the league. They would be middle pack to lower end of the league and the top teams in each half (west - NDSU, UNI, SDSU, east - YSU, SIU, IL St) should beat them in the first few league years.

[MplsBison]

I think EIU-Towson should give some insight into how they would do against SDSU. Towson ran wild and won by ten, just like SDSU did last year. Zenner isn't West, but both teams are built to do the same thing and do it with comparable competency. EIU would have been somewhere between second and forth depending on how they held up in a better and deeper league. That said, the OVC deserved its three playoffs teams. The problem was SUU.

The Towson game was not representative of EIU's talent last season. The weather screwed them.

If the game had been at Towson, EIU would've won.

[MplsBison]

I'll keep this short and simple. I think that in any given year.... With a 24 team field.... The MVFC deserves at least 3 teams in. Maybe 4 in a good year.

I don't drink the kool aid like some do. I think our schools provide some of the best teams... But I really don't buy into the "We are awesome because we have kept scores reasonable with NDSU" deal.

Looking at it that way... Notre Dame would have been a mediocre SEC team a couple years ago when they got smashed by Bama..... Certainly not the case.

A 12 team MVFC deserves 4 teams in a 24 team field. Simple as that.

[MplsBison]

UND and EIU would be good additions to the Summit/MVF conferences. The MVC doesn't want the Dakota's, they picked Loyola to replace Creighton, so screw them. Without Creighton, the MVC isn't near as sexy anymore. The MVC could get real interesting if Wichita State bolts. If we were to pick up just one or the other of UND or EIU, the Summit could be very solid. It would be the NCC 2.0 and I don't have a problem with that.

Summit 2.0:

NDSU/UND
SDSU/USD
Omaha/Kansas City
Denver/Oral Roberts
IUPUI/IPFW
WIU/EIU

Denver and OR don't really fit into such league geographically. In that case, I'd rather have SIUE (St. Louis) and Chicago St.

But I know there would be a riot if Denver and OR were replaced by UMKC, SIUE and Chicago St, so I'll just leave it as is.

[MplsBison]

Ya it is.

I went to grad school at EIU in 93-94 and they were in the Gateway at the time. Fans loved having ILL State, UNI, Southern Ill, Western Ill and Ind State on the schedule (conference). Travel was a lot shorter. But as clenz and houndawg mentioned, EIU was getting pounded in conference and decided to leave for the softer OVC. IMO, there is a very slim chance they will ever come back to the Valley/Summit.

And that may be exactly the case. But on the other hand, they just had an incredible season and the attitudes around the administration might be something more along the lines of "it's time we got back with WIU, IL St and SIU."

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

The Towson game was not representative of EIU's talent last season. The weather screwed them.

If the game had been at Towson, EIU would've won.


Disagree.

I think the game would have been easier for Towson. They would have continued to pound EIU with better footing on the field. NDSU would have pounded EIU also. I'll take a very good defense over a soft, flashy offense any day.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

And that may be exactly the case. But on the other hand, they just had an incredible season and the attitudes around the administration might be something more along the lines of "it's time we got back with WIU, IL St and SIU."


Total speculation.

I'll speculate also: The EIU coaches probably like competing for conference championships in the OVC. Last year's EIU team would have been 4th in the Valley, maybe 3rd.

[Cocky]

Total speculation.

I'll speculate also: The EIU coaches probably like competing for conference championships in the OVC. Last year's EIU team would have been 4th in the Valley, maybe 3rd.

yeah and SDSU would have been 4th or 5th in the OVC last year.

[MplsBison]

Disagree.

I think the game would have been easier for Towson. They would have continued to pound EIU with better footing on the field. NDSU would have pounded EIU also. I'll take a very good defense over a soft, flashy offense any day.

But EIU would've been able to score at will on Towson if the weather cooperated. That's the point.

Against NDSU, maybe not so much but it would've been a much better battle for the Bison than Towson.

[MplsBison]

Total speculation.

I'll speculate also: The EIU coaches probably like competing for conference championships in the OVC. Last year's EIU team would have been 4th in the Valley, maybe 3rd.

Duh, it's total speculation. We're posters on an internet message board. And I even went as far to use the words may and might.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

yeah and SDSU would have been 4th or 5th in the OVC last year.


Doubt it.

SDSU was a NDSU "light" team last year. Power running game and good defense. Like I said, EIU would have been 3rd or 4th in the Valley.

Why do you think NDSU has been so successful the last 3-4 years?

They do not run the gimmick offenses that most schools run: pistol sets, read-option sets or spread offense sets. They line up and the defense knows what is coming....run the ball and play action pass. If NDSU can make it out of the Valley, they are built for the playoffs: good defense and running game. Teams in the Valley see them every year and defensively scheme them better than teams that do not play against them.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

But EIU would've been able to score at will on Towson if the weather cooperated. That's the point.

Against NDSU, maybe not so much but it would've been a much better battle for the Bison than Towson.


I think you mean would have been able to score at will. Maybe, Towson running the ball successfully kept the EIU offense off the field. NDSU would have been the same.

[Lehigh'98]

EIU 2013 >> SDSU 2013, look what EWU did to them in playoffs. EIU had a better offense than them. They had an NFL QB and all Americans on offense. They also defeated Siu on the road and ILST. Nothing supports SDSUs case here, yet it's thrown around like its a fact.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

EIU 2013 >> SDSU 2013, look what EWU did to them in playoffs. EIU had a better offense than them. They had an NFL QB and all Americans on offense. They also defeated Siu on the road and ILST. Nothing supports SDSUs case here, yet it's thrown around like its a fact.


SDSU bitch-slapped EIU in '12 playoffs. EIU played in a soft conference. Yes, they beat some good teams but IMO, SDSU would have beaten them in last year's playoffs. You and OVC fans don't think so...great.

[Lehigh'98]

I know, I said I was done arguing the point, then I saw like 5 posts about it and couldn't stop myself :)

[SIUSalukiFan]

The guys who keep knocking the 2013 Eastern Illinois football team really should take a step back and quit thinking only with your conference dicks.

Eastern Illinois won at San Diego State by 21 - and SDSU wound up winning a bowl game at the end of the year. Eastern Illinois lost by four at Northern Illinois - after leading by 21 early - and NIU would up in a bowl game at the end of the year. Name another FCS from 2013 that can make that claim ... there might have been another one or two but not many.

The OVC absolutely did not deserve to have more playoff teams than the MVFC. However, bad-mouthing Eastern Illinois is completely off-base.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

The guys who keep knocking the 2013 Eastern Illinois football team really should take a step back and quit thinking only with your conference dicks.

Eastern Illinois won at San Diego State by 21 - and SDSU wound up winning a bowl game at the end of the year. Eastern Illinois lost by four at Northern Illinois - after leading by 21 early - and NIU would up in a bowl game at the end of the year. Name another FCS from 2013 that can make that claim ... there might have been another one or two but not many.

The OVC absolutely did not deserve to have more playoff teams than the MVFC. However, bad-mouthing Eastern Illinois is completely off-base.

Big deal, one good season.

[Cocky]

The OVC absolutely did not deserve to have more playoff teams than the MVFC. However, bad-mouthing Eastern Illinois is completely off-base.

Why didn't the OVC deserve 3 last year? JSU was considered the 3rd team from the OVC and we did quite well against a 2nd placed Southland Conference team which had 3 bids also.

[Lehigh'98]

Big deal, one good season.

You are right, it was only one good season, but there's no need for revisionist history from some saying they were overrated when they were a top 5 FCS last year. It's just disrespectful to that team and what they accomplished. Those seasons are special for those programs, no need to disparage.

[MplsBison]

I think you mean would have been able to score at will. Maybe, Towson running the ball successfully kept the EIU offense off the field. NDSU would have been the same.

I meant what I correctly said: if the weather in Charleston for the EIU-Towson game would've allowed their best-in-FCS passing attack to function at all, they would've been able to score at will on Towson.

NDSU had the talent in defensive secondary to hold them back, on the other hand. It's a matchup we should've gotten as fans, but were screwed out of by the weather.

Same exact thing happened the next week in Cheney. Towson got two get out of jail free cards, mailed in by mother nature.

[MplsBison]

You are right, it was only one good season, but there's no need for revisionist history from some saying they were overrated when they were a top 5 FCS last year. It's just disrespectful to that team and what they accomplished. Those seasons are special for those programs, no need to disparage.

Your point is well taken.

But the main point here is that in order for MVFC to make a playoff push, it needs (at least) 12 members. That's how it gets 4 teams in the playoffs every year, as it should.

[mmiller_34]

I find it telling that there are no EIU making claims that they would fare better in the Valley than SDSU. Probably because they remember the last time they played SDSU.

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncf/boxscore?gameId=323292571

I am not saying that EIU wasn't good last year, they were exceptional. However, I think that some from other conferences overlook SDSU as we are in the shadow of NDSU most of the time. Honestly Im not sure why people are arguing about where teams would hypothetically place last season. Who cares where the 2013 EIU team would have placed in the MVFC. Why not look at this years season?

[MplsBison]

I find it telling that there are no EIU making claims that they would fare better in the Valley than SDSU. Probably because they remember the last time they played SDSU.

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncf/boxscore?gameId=323292571

I am not saying that EIU wasn't good last year, they were exceptional. However, I think that some from other conferences overlook SDSU as we are in the shadow of NDSU most of the time. Honestly Im not sure why people are arguing about where teams would hypothetically place last season. Who cares where the 2013 EIU team would have placed in the MVFC. Why not look at this years season?

You would know if you took the time to read the thread.

The point was made about EIU joining the MVFC.

[mmiller_34]

The point was made about EIU joining the MVFC.

Read that. Then somehow SDSU got thrown under the bus; just backing up the Jacks. As for EIU joining, it will never happen.

The point I made in my post was merely saying that no EIU fans have yet commented on the matter of EIU>>>SDSU. Then I offered a new topic of discussion; something a little more relevant. 2014.

[MplsBison]

Read that. Then somehow SDSU got thrown under the bus; just backing up the Jacks. As for EIU joining, it will never happen.

The point I made in my post was merely saying that no EIU fans have yet commented on the matter of EIU>>>SDSU. Then I offered a new topic of discussion; something a little more relevant. 2014.

If Douple and Patty went down to Charleston and offered MVFC & Summit membership point blank to EIU president and AD, there's a 50/50 chance.

Now would they actually go down there? Maybe not.


There's a 100% chance they'd accept that deal in Grand Forks. But need a package deal with an eastern school. That's where EIU comes in.

[Bisonoline]

If Douple and Patty went down to Charleston and offered MVFC & Summit membership point blank to EIU president and AD, there's a 50/50 chance.

Now would they actually go down there? Maybe not.


There's a 100% chance they'd accept that deal in Grand Forks. But need a package deal with an eastern school. That's where EIU comes in.

How do you know this to be fact?

[centennial]

How do you know this to be fact?
He likes throwing out numbers like 99% of Ndsu fans want the Und game, or the example above.

[Cocky]

If Douple and Patty went down to Charleston and offered MVFC & Summit membership point blank to EIU president and AD, there's a 50/50 chance.

Now would they actually go down there? Maybe not.


There's a 100% chance they'd accept that deal in Grand Forks. But need a package deal with an eastern school. That's where EIU comes in.

Well if football is important to EIU then they would listen. The OVC is a basketball league and not real football friendly. If the OVC was more football minded UNA would have received an invitation by now.

[darell1976]

If Douple and Patty went down to Charleston and offered MVFC & Summit membership point blank to EIU president and AD, there's a 50/50 chance.

Now would they actually go down there? Maybe not.


There's a 100% chance they'd accept that deal in Grand Forks. But need a package deal with an eastern school. That's where EIU comes in.

I wouldn't say 100%. Travel would be easier with a MVFC/SL package deal, but its about $$$, and the Big Sky has a pretty good tv deal with Root and Big Sky TV where all games are available on the net.

[BisonFan02]

I wouldn't say 100%. Travel would be easier with a MVFC/SL package deal, but its about $$$, and the Big Sky has a pretty good tv deal with Root and Big Sky TV where all games are available on the net.

I'm dizzy.....it's about money...but you have higher travel costs....and how much $$$ do you actually get from that Root TV deal that doesn't air any of your games?

[darell1976]

I'm dizzy.....it's about money...but you have higher travel costs....and how much $$$ do you actually get from that Root TV deal that doesn't air any of your games?

We may not get any games but the conference as a whole gets money which goes to each member. As for travel costs...frequent flyer miles.:D

http://www.bigskyconf.com/sports/2012/1/18/GEN_0118125326.aspx


Q: How does the DirecTV/ROOT SPORTS contract impact the Big Sky schools financially?
A: Certainly our schools will see a financial gain because of the ROOT SPORTS contract, but it's not the type of money schools in the Pac-12, SEC or Big 12 get from their television contracts. This deal benefits all of our schools, and all of our institutions will see more money than what they currently receive in TV money. The Big Sky is unique among FCS conferences in that we make money through television. Many FCS conferences pay to have their games on TV. For us, the exposure this contract provides is vital. Our coaches and Athletics Directors are excited about this venture. It will expose our teams and universities to millions of homes.

[BisonFan02]

We may not get any games but the conference as a whole gets money which goes to each member. As for travel costs...frequent flyer miles.:D

http://www.bigskyconf.com/sports/2012/1/18/GEN_0118125326.aspx

How much does each school receive?.......I seem to think the costs to stay in the BSC well outweigh the "benefits" of that TV contract. Revenue does not necessarily mean more profitability.

[SIUSalukiFan]

Big deal, one good season.

I'm only talking about 2013. Maybe reading comprehension isn't your strong suit?

[MplsBison]

How do you know this to be fact?

This is an internet message board. It's not required to preference every single post with The following is the opinion of the poster. I for one will not be doing that and I don't really care if it makes you all full of hot air.

- - - Updated - - -


Well if football is important to EIU then they would listen. The OVC is a basketball league and not real football friendly. If the OVC was more football minded UNA would have received an invitation by now.

If geography and in-state rivalries are important to them, as well.

[SIUSalukiFan]

Why didn't the OVC deserve 3 last year? JSU was considered the 3rd team from the OVC and we did quite well against a 2nd placed Southland Conference team which had 3 bids also.

Let's don't go down this road again. xnodx

[MplsBison]

I wouldn't say 100%. Travel would be easier with a MVFC/SL package deal, but its about $$$, and the Big Sky has a pretty good tv deal with Root and Big Sky TV where all games are available on the net.

It's a nice perk for sure, but I bet it's hardly worth anything to the school financially.

It'd be one thing if UND was in the Big Sky for football only, but sending all your teams (including baseball in the WAC) out to the Pacific Time Zone multiple times per season? It doesn't compute financially - IF the MVFC/Summit were on the table.

[BisonFan02]

It's a nice perk for sure, but I bet it's hardly worth anything to the school financially.

It'd be one thing if UND was in the Big Sky for football only, but sending all your teams (including baseball in the WAC) out to the Pacific Time Zone multiple times per season? It doesn't compute financially - IF the MVFC/Summit were on the table.

It's all about the benjamins......

[darell1976]

How much does each school receive?.......I seem to think the costs to stay in the BSC well outweigh the "benefits" of that TV contract. Revenue does not necessarily mean more profitability.

I searched and it says financial terms were not disclosed. It would be nice to see how much.

[darell1976]

It's a nice perk for sure, but I bet it's hardly worth anything to the school financially.

It'd be one thing if UND was in the Big Sky for football only, but sending all your teams (including baseball in the WAC) out to the Pacific Time Zone multiple times per season? It doesn't compute financially - IF the MVFC/Summit were on the table.

Douple wasn't interested in UND for baseball when UND wanted in, so the WAC offered (probably since UND is already an associate member in Swimming), and UND along with UNC accepted.

[MplsBison]

Douple wasn't interested in UND for baseball when UND wanted in, so the WAC offered (probably since UND is already an associate member in Swimming), and UND along with UNC accepted.

Didn't say the WAC is a bad home for UND baseball. It makes sense, actually, so long as UND is aligned with the Big Sky and fellow Big Sky baseball teams are in the WAC for baseball.

But obviously it makes much more sense for UND to have non-football sports in the Summit, including baseball. Especially considering Denver and Omaha, two NCHC rivals in hockey, are also in the conference. But again, that could only be considered if MVFC membership was also on the table. And the only way that could come to pass is if the eastern schools in the league also get a team (or two). They're not going to sign off on another Dakota team only.

[darell1976]

Didn't say the WAC is a bad home for UND baseball. It makes sense, actually, so long as UND is aligned with the Big Sky and fellow Big Sky baseball teams are in the WAC for baseball.

But obviously it makes much more sense for UND to have non-football sports in the Summit, including baseball. Especially considering Denver and Omaha, two NCHC rivals in hockey, are also in the conference. But again, that could only be considered if MVFC membership was also on the table. And the only way that could come to pass is if the eastern schools in the league also get a team (or two). They're not going to sign off on another Dakota team only.

Unless a bunch of teams out east (ISUb, YSU) or south (MSU) move that may allow UND to join, but I can't see Patty V or the eastern/ southern teams changing their minds to add another Dakota team.

[MplsBison]

Unless a bunch of teams out east (ISUb, YSU) or south (MSU) move that may allow UND to join, but I can't see Patty V or the eastern/ southern teams changing their minds to add another Dakota team.

No it's pretty easy, in fact.

- MVFC needs to add two teams to get to 12
- you add one in the east (EIU) and one in the west (UND)

End

[darell1976]

No it's pretty easy, in fact.

- MVFC needs to add two teams to get to 12
- you add one in the east (EIU) and one in the west (UND)

End

If they had 12 would you do divisions? Dakota 4 plus UNI, and SIU in one and the remaining in the other?

[clenz]

If they had 12 would you do divisions? Dakota 4 plus UNI, and SIU in one and the remaining in the other?
SIU doesn't want to go West...


Plus you talk about F-ing your best teams over.
UNI
NDSU
SDSU
SIU
UND
USD

Compared to
WIU
MSU
ISU
ISU
YSU
EIU


Yeah...good luck ever getting the western members to agree to that.



Oh, and SIU is an Illinois school that doesn't want to go west.

WIU doesn't really care, but I doubt they'd be thrilled about being with NDSU, SDSU, UNI, and being stuck traveling to Bismark.

MSU is technically west of everyone except the Dakota's. However, see WIU with them.


I know mpls wants to act like this is easy, but it's not. The teams that have said adding teams would be a good idea also realize that it needs to be done to counter the fact that UNI, SDSU, NDSU, and SIU rarely miss each other. Putting them in the same division isn't going to solve the problem - it will make it worse.

[darell1976]

SIU doesn't want to go West...


Plus you talk about F-ing your best teams over.
UNI
NDSU
SDSU
SIU
UND
USD

Compared to
WIU
MSU
ISU
ISU
YSU
EIU


Yeah...good luck ever getting the western members to agree to that.



Oh, and SIU is an Illinois school that doesn't want to go west.

WIU doesn't really care, but I doubt they'd be thrilled about being with NDSU, SDSU, UNI, and being stuck traveling to Bismark.

MSU is technically west of everyone except the Dakota's. However, see WIU with them.


I know mpls wants to act like this is easy, but it's not. The teams that have said adding teams would be a good idea also realize that it needs to be done to counter the fact that UNI, SDSU, NDSU, and SIU rarely miss each other. Putting them in the same division isn't going to solve the problem - it will make it worse.

Why would they go to Bismarck? You do know that UND is just 1 hour north of Fargo?

[clenz]

Why would they go to Bismarck? You do know that UND is just 1 hour north of Fargo?
It doesn't really matter...the fact is another trip to North Dakota isn't going to happen for anyone east of Vermilion without some rather LARGE concessions and changes.


About the only way it might work is to make a Summit and Valley divisional split - since the travel is already in the budget for them.

Summit
NDSU
SDSU
USD
UND
WIU
EIU

Valley
MSU
UNI
SIU
ISU
ISU
YSU


3 OOC games
5 division games
3 cross overs


Still would never happen, but since we are stuck talking about UND/EIU it's about the only way you'll get it to happen...period.

[clenz]

In an ideal world Drake would decide they care about football and were will to make the jump to the MVFC from PFL.

Then it would be a matter of finding 1 other school willing to do a jump to the Summit/MVFC.

However, I can crap in my left hand and wish with my right....

[darell1976]

It doesn't really matter...the fact is another trip to North Dakota isn't going to happen for anyone east of Vermilion without some rather LARGE concessions and changes.


About the only way it might work is to make a Summit and Valley divisional split - since the travel is already in the budget for them.

Summit
NDSU
SDSU
USD
UND
WIU
EIU

Valley
MSU
UNI
SIU
ISU
ISU
YSU


3 OOC games
5 division games
3 cross overs


Still would never happen, but since we are stuck talking about UND/EIU it's about the only way you'll get it to happen...period.

Mpls thinks it's easy, I don't. UND wasn't accepted because of the additional trip to the Dakota's excuse, and it's not going to change unless those teams who brought up this excuse left. In other words UND is in the BSC until it's time to move up.

[clenz]

Mpls thinks it's easy, I don't. UND wasn't accepted because of the additional trip to the Dakota's excuse, and it's not going to change unless those teams who brought up this excuse left. In other words UND is in the BSC until it's time to move up.
Like I said, the ONLY way for it to happen - in an absolute pipe dream that UND and EIU/Drake want to move to the MVFC is to split a summit/valley divisions. Valley school will not go for an extra trip to ND...period.

I wouldn't *hate* the idea of Valley/Summit divisions


In an EIU/UND situation

Summit
NDSU
SDSU
USD
UND
WIU
EIU

Valley
MSU
UNI
SIU
ISU
ISU
YSU - and I wouldn't hate to see a YSU move to the CAA and add Drake there.


3 OOC games
5 division games
3 cross overs



A Drake/UND situation gets a touch messy with YSU due to the fact Drake is a Valley member..

Summit
NDSU
SDSU
USD
UND
WIU

Valley
UNI
SIU
ISU
ISU
MSU

Drake and YSU become the issue. Obvious answer is Drake to Summit and YSU to Valley, but Drake being a Valley member would likely want Valley division and YSU sure as hell isn't going to agree to a division with at least 2 guaranteed trips per year to the Dakota's


Drake/EIU is an easy set up as well

Summit
NDSU
SDSU
USD
UND
WIU
EIU

Valley
UNI
SIU
ISU
ISU
MSU
Drake

[MplsBison]

Or you don't do divisions. Neither the CAA or Big Sky have them. There is no requirement to split into divisions if you have 12 (or more) members. (that is the current FBS rule regards to having a championship game -- irrelevant to FCS football)


No divisions. Just 12 members.


NDSU
UND
SDSU
USD
UNI
MSU
WIU
EIU
IL St
SIU
IN St
YSU

Non-Dakota schools only have to take one trip to the Dakotas per year maximum.

[clenz]

Or you don't do divisions. Neither the CAA or Big Sky have them. There is no requirement to split into divisions if you have 12 (or more) members. (that is the current FBS rule regards to having a championship game -- irrelevant to FCS football)


No divisions. Just 12 members.


NDSU
UND
SDSU
USD
UNI
MSU
WIU
EIU
IL St
SIU
IN St
YSU

Non-Dakota schools only have to take one trip to the Dakotas per year maximum.
How are you going to work a rotation so that schools only have to go to the Dakota's once per year when 1/3 the conference is in the Dakotas?

Type that rotation up for me.

[BisonBacker]

xpopcornx

[MplsBison]

How are you going to work a rotation so that schools only have to go to the Dakota's once per year when 1/3 the conference is in the Dakotas?

Type that rotation up for me.

Ok here's the deal.

- Four Dakota schools play each other, that's 12 games (6 home games total)
- That leaves four teams x five games = 20 games (10 home games total)
- There are eight non-Dakota teams, so that leaves two of those eight left holding the bag to make an extra trip or one team making two extra trips.

I'd be willing to throw UNI under the bus in making them travel to the Dakotas three times every year, given that those are bus trips (7.5 hours max to Grand Forks).

But I don't think it's too much to ask that a rotation of UNI, MSU and WIU make an extra Dakota trip a year.

Or you go to 14 by adding Drake and Butler (and without asking them to add any scholarships) and then you can achieve making each non-Dakota team travel to the Dakotas only once per year.

[clenz]

Ok here's the deal.

- Four Dakota schools play each other, that's 12 games (6 home games total)
- That leaves four teams x five games = 20 games (10 home games total)
- There are eight non-Dakota teams, so that leaves two of those eight left holding the bag to make an extra trip or one team making two extra trips.

I'd be willing to throw UNI under the bus in making them travel to the Dakotas three times every year, given that those are bus trips (7.5 hours max to Grand Forks).

But I don't think it's too much to ask that a rotation of UNI, MSU and WIU make an extra Dakota trip a year.

Or you go to 14 by adding Drake and Butler (and without asking them to add any scholarships) and then you can achieve making each non-Dakota team travel to the Dakotas only once per year.
So, send UNI to the Dakota's three times?
Yeah, that **** isn't going to happen.

It's at 2 right now, and it isn't going any higher.

Basically you just admitted that it would only work if we you put UNI/NDSU/SDSU/USD/UND in the same side and rotated the others through - or the divisional format.


If you think UNI is busing to SDSU, NDSU, and UND in the same season you're dumber than I thought...hell, if you think UNI is busing to any of them other than maybe SDSU...MAYBE... you're dumber than I thought.


So...You're going to tell UNI that they have to charter three flights, or force a team to sit on a bus for 5-8 hours three times, per season.


You won't get Drake, UNI or MSU on board with that.

Try again - produce a multi-year rotation where the non-Dakota schools go to the Dakota's just once per season...

[Bisonator]

So, send UNI to the Dakota's three times?
Yeah, that **** isn't going to happen.

It's at 2 right now, and it isn't going any higher.

Basically you just admitted that it would only work if we you put UNI/NDSU/SDSU/USD/UND in the same side and rotated the others through - or the divisional format.


If you think UNI is busing to SDSU, NDSU, and UND in the same season you're dumber than I thought...hell, if you think UNI is busing to any of them other than maybe SDSU...MAYBE... you're dumber than I thought.


So...You're going to tell UNI that they have to charter three flights, or force a team to sit on a bus for 5-8 hours three times, per season.


You won't get Drake, UNI or MSU on board with that.

Try again - produce a multi-year rotation where the non-Dakota schools go to the Dakota's just once per season...

You act like Fargo's on the other side of the world when in fact it's closer to Cedar Falls then Carbondale! And there really is no way of getting around having UNI in the same division as the Dakota's unless you go with your MVC/Summit split which could be a possibility with the right schools. Any N/S or E/W divisions would certainly put UNI and the Dakota's together geographically.

[centennial]

So, send UNI to the Dakota's three times?
Yeah, that **** isn't going to happen.

It's at 2 right now, and it isn't going any higher.

Basically you just admitted that it would only work if we you put UNI/NDSU/SDSU/USD/UND in the same side and rotated the others through - or the divisional format.


If you think UNI is busing to SDSU, NDSU, and UND in the same season you're dumber than I thought...hell, if you think UNI is busing to any of them other than maybe SDSU...MAYBE... you're dumber than I thought.


So...You're going to tell UNI that they have to charter three flights, or force a team to sit on a bus for 5-8 hours three times, per season.


You won't get Drake, UNI or MSU on board with that.

Try again - produce a multi-year rotation where the non-Dakota schools go to the Dakota's just once per season...
It can happen if we get a TV deal. I don't think this is in the realm of possibility however. I want one DII from MN and another one from the eastern surrounding states to move up.