TSN Announces Preseason Walter Payton Watch List [Archive]

smallcollegefbfan

July 7th, 2014, 12:27 PM

The only spots I would disagree with are UNH WR RJ Harris, CCU QB Alex Ross, and Richmond QB Michael Strauss.

Harris likely won't put up the gaudy numbers (1200 plus yards, 15 TDs) to get legit consideration, although he is worthy of being on the list based on his talent.

I'm curious to see the numbers on Ross losing his top 3 WRs and the ground attack. Some people think CCU may struggle a bit this year. They need a lot of new names to step up.

Strauss has another QB there who could push him and I probably would have put another RB on this list.

Pruitt is coming off an injury and while definitely talented enough and deserving, I'm not sure he will put up the numbers for the voters to really give him a good look. He should be on the list and I'm not saying I wouldn't put him on. I just fear he won't have the stats that people are looking for.

Other than those little things I think the list is real strong. Nobody on there is a bad player. Just some spots where I am not sure the player will put up the numbers needed to stay on, even if they are healthy.

citdog

July 7th, 2014, 12:57 PM

The Chatty QB is on the list. We should just go ahead and give it to him.

Twentysix

July 7th, 2014, 01:38 PM

David Johnson is going to take it.

dewey

July 7th, 2014, 01:41 PM

Mattymc727

July 7th, 2014, 02:03 PM

I am going to question why RJ Harris (WR #2) is on the list versus WR #1 who has IMHO better numbers. I know it is just preseason accolades but when a guy that is returning has better numbers from the previous season why is WR #2 on the list but not WR#1.xconfusedx

Which one should be on the list?

WR #1

RECEIVING
GP
Rec
Yards
Td
Long
Rec/G
Avg/C
Avg/G

2013
15
67
1191
15
56
4.5
17.8
79.4

WR #2

2013 15 76 1004 5 13.2

RJ only played in 12 games last season and had more receptions and more yards per game (76 receptions/ 83 yards per game). You have an argument, but from seeing RJ play over 4 years, he deserves to be on the list.

RJ Harris is only 21 receptions and 140 yards shy of being on UNH's all time top 10 receiver list (at a pass happy school that has had quite a few very good receivers over the last ten years).

underdawg

July 7th, 2014, 02:18 PM

lionsrking2

July 7th, 2014, 02:19 PM

clenz

July 7th, 2014, 02:45 PM

Pruitt was hurt last year for a few games so he will not produce? I thought David Johnson was also hurt last season--at least that was the excuse I heard when he only got 19 yards against the Salukis-- I guess he's fully recovered but of course Pruitt is an accident waiting to happenxlolx
DJ played 11 games last season, played just three quarters vs NDSU and played basically 1 quarter in two others due to a hip flexor issue... And pulled in early in the Drake, McNeese State, and Northern Colorado games due to UNI having big leads

Either your guy put numbers up or he didn't. RJ played 12 games, that's a full regular season slate... Boo freaking hoo

Mattymc727

July 7th, 2014, 03:17 PM

Either your guy put numbers up or he didn't. RJ played 12 games, that's a full regular season slate... Boo freaking hoo

OK. I only brought it up because the statistics that were shown in the post above mine were wrong. RJ played 12 games, not 15, which is why the other player had better stats in certain categories. RJ Harris is a top 20 talent in the FCS.

SFA 93

July 7th, 2014, 04:05 PM

Bennett's best game of the season came at the expense of the Lumberjacks gaining over 400 yards of total offense with 5 TDs averaging just over 14 yards per carry on the ground.

Hopefully Coach Williamson and company will be ready to put a stop to that in 2014.

smallcollegefbfan

July 7th, 2014, 04:11 PM

I am going to question why RJ Harris (WR #2) is on the list versus WR #1 who has IMHO better numbers. I know it is just preseason accolades but when a guy that is returning has better numbers from the previous season why is WR #2 on the list but not WR#1.xconfusedx

Which one should be on the list?

WR #1

RECEIVING
GP
Rec
Yards
Td
Long
Rec/G
Avg/C
Avg/G

2013
15
67
1191
15
56
4.5
17.8
79.4

WR #2

2013 15 76 1004 5 13.2

Go Bison!

Dewey

- - - Updated - - -

I think Vernon Adams takes it.

I mentioned this before. In football, it's not all stats. That's why I argue that many awards are bad because often times a player puts up stats on a certain play because of what someone else did that did not show up in the stat column. Harris is a very good player and the reason I questioned him a little bit is simply because I don't think he will put up the stats for those who are not really football people but just vote based on stats.

Just because a WR has 1200 yards versus 1000 yards does not mean the guy with 1200 yards is indeed better. There are a lot of variables to consider.

smallcollegefbfan

July 7th, 2014, 04:13 PM

Pruitt was hurt last year for a few games so he will not produce? I thought David Johnson was also hurt last season--at least that was the excuse I heard when he only got 19 yards against the Salukis-- I guess he's fully recovered but of course Pruitt is an accident waiting to happenxlolx

I never said that. I'm just saying that Pruitt got hurt later in the year and was not healthy to finish the season, plus it was a serious injury. I am not saying that is why I would not put him on the list. I am saying I would put him on the list. I'm just pointing out that because people vote based on stats he has a new QB and coming off injury so I am not sure he will consistently put up the numbers to make him a serious contender for it.

Pruitt is by far one of the top 20 offensive players in FCS.

dewey

July 7th, 2014, 04:33 PM

RJ only played in 12 games last season and had more receptions and more yards per game (76 receptions/ 83 yards per game). You have an argument, but from seeing RJ play over 4 years, he deserves to be on the list.

RJ Harris is only 21 receptions and 140 yards shy of being on UNH's all time top 10 receiver list (at a pass happy school that has had quite a few very good receivers over the last ten years).

Thanks for the correction on the games playedxbangx

This is the stats page I saw and I wasn't sure about the games with no statistics.

http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=sportsnetwork&page=cfoot2/specialevents/fcsawards/2014/file.aspx?p=pa,f=98747

The yards per game is pretty even and RJ does have more receptions in 12 games versus 15 games but 15 TD's to 5 is a pretty big difference. Oh well it is just pre season stuff.

Dewey

SFA 93

July 7th, 2014, 04:49 PM

If SFA has a great season one of these two players could make the final list...

RB: Gus Johnson 5-10; 224 (Stephen F Austin State) Sr.
GP:11;R:176;YDS:1,061;AVG:6.0;TD:11;REC:21;YDS:108 ;AVG:5.1;TD:0

- 2013 All-Southland Conference (2nd team)

179 yards against Prairie View A&M
165 yards against Lamar
157 yards against Montana State
136 yards against Sam Houston State
110 yards against Weber State
106 yards against Southeastern Louisiana
102 yards against McMurry

1,180 all-purpose yards

WR: Tyler Boyd 5-10; 185 (Stephen F. Austin State) Sr.
GP:12;REC:79;YDS:1,183;AVG:15.0;TD:8;ATT:3;CMP:3;Y DS:200;TD:3

- 2013 All-Southland Conference (Honorable Mention)

229 yards against Lamar (2nd best in School history)
206 yards against Sam Houston State (3rd best in school history)
142 yards against McNeese State
112 yards against McMurry

slostang

July 7th, 2014, 05:12 PM

I expect to see Cal Poly RB Kristaan Ivory on the list at some point this season if he stays healthy.

cpalum

July 7th, 2014, 05:17 PM

I expect to see Cal Poly RB Kristaan Ivory on the list at some point this season if he stays healthy.

You beat me to it; I think barring his injury last year we'd see him on that list now

Gordon Shumway

July 7th, 2014, 07:19 PM

I mentioned this before. In football, it's not all stats. That's why I argue that many awards are bad because often times a player puts up stats on a certain play because of what someone else did that did not show up in the stat column. Harris is a very good player and the reason I questioned him a little bit is simply because I don't think he will put up the stats for those who are not really football people but just vote based on stats.

Just because a WR has 1200 yards versus 1000 yards does not mean the guy with 1200 yards is indeed better. There are a lot of variables to consider.

You are right. Stats are not everything. Harris is a very talented player, but he is not about to win the Payton award this year. If he had Ricky Santos as his QB the last three years, then we might be talking about him breaking David ball's TD record, but Santos hasn't been his QB. In fact, if Santos was his QB, he probably still wouldn't win the award. Santos would. :D

clenz

July 7th, 2014, 08:01 PM

I never was real impressed with Santos... 😈:rolleyes:

i_got_a_fever

July 7th, 2014, 08:58 PM

Zach Zenner for Payton Award.

http://youtu.be/07kPVR7OgFI

smallcollegefbfan

July 7th, 2014, 10:56 PM

You are right. Stats are not everything. Harris is a very talented player, but he is not about to win the Payton award this year. If he had Ricky Santos as his QB the last three years, then we might be talking about him breaking David ball's TD record, but Santos hasn't been his QB. In fact, if Santos was his QB, he probably still wouldn't win the award. Santos would. :D

Oh I don't think he has any shot to win. That's why I have him rated lower in my projections than TSN does. I agree with TSN on his talent but just don't think he will put up the numbers to get the attention of the voters that he deserves.

clenz

July 7th, 2014, 11:11 PM

David Johnson is going to take it.
Would love to see this happen, and if healthy all season I think it's a very real possibility. However, UNI throws enough to keep him from getting Terrance West numbers (though he does put up very nice receiving numbers). If healthy all season I imagine he'll finish around 1,800-2,000 yards running (roughly 6 YPC), probably 500ish receiving, roughly 20-25 total TDs and a butt load of defenders bulldozed or with broken ankles, in his wake

BUT...

I think Vernon Adams takes it.This is most likely. Much like the Heisman (and NFL MVP) it's about who throws for the most gaudy passing stats. Adams will throw the ball 525+ times for about 5,500 and 50-60 TDS. While that only averages to 10 yards per completion and likely means he's throwing more passes than any other QB in the nation, 5000+ yards looks amazing (harking back to 1200 yard receiving vs 1000) and will give him the award.

Kemo

July 8th, 2014, 12:23 AM

Would love to see this happen, and if healthy all season I think it's a very real possibility. However, UNI throws enough to keep him from getting Terrance West numbers (though he does put up very nice receiving numbers). If healthy all season I imagine he'll finish around 1,800-2,000 yards running (roughly 6 YPC), probably 500ish receiving, roughly 20-25 total TDs and a butt load of defenders bulldozed or with broken ankles, in his wake

BUT...
This is most likely. Much like the Heisman (and NFL MVP) it's about who throws for the most gaudy passing stats. Adams will throw the ball 525+ times for about 5,500 and 50-60 TDS. While that only averages to 10 yards per completion and likely means he's throwing more passes than any other QB in the nation, 5000+ yards looks amazing (harking back to 1200 yard receiving vs 1000) and will give him the award.

I honestly am not sure what kind of numbers a running back would have to put up to win the Walter Payton Award, as voters can't get over the the inflated QB numbers that the spread offenses have brought to the game.

There is a reason that a QB has won the award the last 10 years.

dewey

July 8th, 2014, 12:31 AM

Would love to see this happen, and if healthy all season I think it's a very real possibility. However, UNI throws enough to keep him from getting Terrance West numbers (though he does put up very nice receiving numbers). If healthy all season I imagine he'll finish around 1,800-2,000 yards running (roughly 6 YPC), probably 500ish receiving, roughly 20-25 total TDs and a butt load of defenders bulldozed or with broken ankles, in his wake

BUT...
This is most likely. Much like the Heisman (and NFL MVP) it's about who throws for the most gaudy passing stats. Adams will throw the ball 525+ times for about 5,500 and 50-60 TDS. While that only averages to 10 yards per completion and likely means he's throwing more passes than any other QB in the nation, 5000+ yards looks amazing (harking back to 1200 yard receiving vs 1000) and will give him the award.

With the last 10 winners being quarterbacks I would be surprised if a QB doesn't win it. Like you said Clenz VA will put up huge numbers and he will be tough to beat. Plus he was the runner-up last year and he will obviously be high on everyone's list for this year.

With David Johnson and Zach Zenner in the same conference could they simultaneously hurt each others chances at the award

Dewey

dewey

July 8th, 2014, 12:42 AM

I honestly am not sure what kind of numbers a running back would have to put up to win the Walter Payton Award, as voters can't get over the the inflated QB numbers that the spread offenses have brought to the game.

There is a reason that a QB has won the award the last 10 years.

Agreed. If West didn't win it last year with the monster stats he had last year, see excerpt from TSN stats below,I don't think ZZ or David Johnson can beat VA. I mean nearly 1900 yards and 31 TDs in 12 regular season games are incredible stats. Heck ZZ has went for over 2000 the last two years and he finished 6th in the 2013 voting and 7th in 2012.

"West, a 5-11, 223-pound junior from Baltimore, led the FCS in rushing yards (1,875) and scoring (31 touchdowns) during Towson's 10-2 regular season. The CAA Football offensive player of the year averaged 6.2 yards on a workhorse 301 carries."

Dewey

mvemjsunpx

July 8th, 2014, 05:36 AM

This is most likely. Much like the Heisman (and NFL MVP) it's about who throws for the most gaudy passing stats. Adams will throw the ball 525+ times for about 5,500 and 50-60 TDS. While that only averages to 10 yards per completion and likely means he's throwing more passes than any other QB in the nation, 5000+ yards looks amazing (harking back to 1200 yard receiving vs 1000) and will give him the award.

I assume you meant 10 yards per attempt & not per completion, and 10 ypa is a superbly high number for anyone that isn't an option QB.

5000 yards is an overrated number by itself, but I think your view here is a bit too harsh on gaudy passing stats. A high efficiency rating is more impressive when a QB is throwing a ton of balls per game because he's putting up those kind of numbers when the defense is looking pass. You don't typically see a QB throwing for those kind of yards without good efficiency, either, because the team just wouldn't be throwing that much (or, if they're a run-&-shoot team, they'd just be lousy like Idaho State).

That being said, I do think Vernon Adams is overrated. He got away with throwing balls into coverage so much last season that he's gonna get burned eventually, even with Kupp & co. bailing him out.

bodoyle

July 9th, 2014, 08:19 AM

The only spots I would disagree with are UNH WR RJ Harris, CCU QB Alex Ross, and Richmond QB Michael Strauss.

I'm curious to see the numbers on Ross losing his top 3 WRs and the ground attack. Some people think CCU may struggle a bit this year. They need a lot of new names to step up.

I think Ross will do fine this year. Yes he lost a lot of talent on the offensive side of the ball, but watch out for Bruce Mapp as a great WR, and JOhn Israel and Devin Brown saw time last year. We still DeAngelo Henderson as a RB. He isn't the brusing RB like Taliaferro was last year, but I think that position will be more of a 2 headed monster with Henderson and someone else.

2ram

July 9th, 2014, 10:07 AM

since the award is presented at the DAC in NYC, we should just go ahead and give it to Sam Ajala or Mike Nebrich.

chattownmocs

July 9th, 2014, 11:10 AM

Mini Tebow is going to put up bigger numbers this year. But wait until he shows his Tebow-like intangibles in the biggest games. Dont count him out. He wont cry like timmy though

clenz

July 9th, 2014, 11:16 AM

Mini Tebow is going to put up bigger numbers this year. But wait until he shows his Tebow-like intangibles in the biggest games. Dont count him out. He wont cry like timmy though
He also won't win a natty like Tebow did manage to do.

chattownmocs

July 9th, 2014, 11:19 AM

He also won't win a natty like Tebow did manage to do.

If he gets to play UNI he will be one step closer after that game.

2ram

July 9th, 2014, 11:58 AM

that game doesn't matter. nebrich to ajala is going to win it anyway.

smallcollegefbfan

July 9th, 2014, 01:55 PM

that game doesn't matter. nebrich to ajala is going to win it anyway.

I think Nebrich has a great shot to win it. He should put up big numbers since he has 2 legit NFL prospects on his offense and has a pretty good team overall. Fordham has at least 5 players who should get in a NFL camp next year. If they don't run the Patriot League something is wrong. Nebrich would be a NFL player if he wasn't so small. He's accurate, has a good arm, and does a good job of using all of his weapons.

McNeese75

July 9th, 2014, 09:24 PM

If he gets to play UNI he will be one step closer after that game.

OUCH xlolx

clenz

July 9th, 2014, 10:04 PM

OUCH xlolx
What's that say about your Slowboys?

McNeese75

July 9th, 2014, 10:23 PM

What's that say about your Slowboys?

xrolleyesx Meh, pretty much not a ****ing thing for 2014. In 2013 we were just unlucky (and stupid) for accepting an away and no home game a few weeks before your whole team laid down on stetchers.

clenz

July 9th, 2014, 11:41 PM

A 36 point beat down that involved pulling the staters because you were felt sorry for is probably more than "nothing"

McNeese75

July 10th, 2014, 11:39 AM

A 36 point beat down that involved pulling the staters because you were felt sorry for is probably more than "nothing"

It's a new year Stormchaser and I doubt seriously you were in the huddle to know anything regarding reasons for pulling starters. Obviously they did not pull them soon enough because they went down like dominoes subsequently.

Move on, nothing to see here other than someone living in the past xcoffeex

BisonFan02

July 10th, 2014, 01:10 PM

It's a new year Stormchaser and I doubt seriously you were in the huddle to know anything regarding reasons for pulling starters. Obviously they did not pull them soon enough because they went down like dominoes subsequently.

Move on, nothing to see here other than someone living in the past xcoffeex

UNI was the best team NDSU played last year (maybe sans Kansas St), and UNI will be the best team they face this year as well (this time, NOT sans Iowa St). Granted, a team could surprise if the Bison play in the postseason, but time will tell I guess.

chattownmocs

July 11th, 2014, 07:10 AM

UNI was the best team NDSU played last year (maybe sans Kansas St), and UNI will be the best team they face this year as well (this time, NOT sans Iowa St). Granted, a team could surprise if the Bison play in the postseason, but time will tell I guess.

What if Iowa State beat y'all by 17-21. Will you still be singing that tune?

clenz

July 11th, 2014, 07:32 AM

What if Iowa State beat y'all by 17-21. Will you still be singing that tune?
Not going to happen.

Go watch last seasons UNI/Iowa State game and watch how UNI embarrassed the crap out of Iowa State

chattownmocs

July 11th, 2014, 07:51 AM

Not going to happen.

Go watch last seasons UNI/Iowa State game and watch how UNI embarrassed the crap out of Iowa State

Why because you beat them? Im sure they will be embarrassed if they lose to NDSU. I dont put some epic stock into a 1 score win the first game of last year. They could very easily beat NDSU.

clenz

July 11th, 2014, 08:41 AM

Why because you beat them? Im sure they will be embarrassed if they lose to NDSU. I dont put some epic stock into a 1 score win the first game of last year. They could very easily beat NDSU.
DJ ran for 199 yards.
Sawyer threw for 250
457 yards of offense
DJ fumbled on the 1 yard line going in with less than a minute left that would have made it 35-20
ISU's first TD was a blown coverage on a QB scramble (60 yard pass)
ISU had 2 FGs as their only scores in the second half.

The game wasn't nearly as close as the score reads.

chattownmocs

July 11th, 2014, 10:30 AM

DJ ran for 199 yards.
Sawyer threw for 250
457 yards of offense
DJ fumbled on the 1 yard line going in with less than a minute left that would have made it 35-20
ISU's first TD was a blown coverage on a QB scramble (60 yard pass)
ISU had 2 FGs as their only scores in the second half.

The game wasn't nearly as close as the score reads.

Sure it was. Wasn't is 21-20 at one point. It wouldn't be as close the score indicates if they had put up a bunch of point after the game was already in hand.

clenz

July 11th, 2014, 10:35 AM

Sure it was. Wasn't is 21-20 at one point. It wouldn't be as close the score indicates if they had put up a bunch of point after the game was already in hand.
In the third quarter and UNI answered immediately back with a TD to start the 4th.

If you'd watch the game you'd see it was never as close as the score showed.

NoDak 4 Ever

July 11th, 2014, 10:35 AM

Nobody has beaten NDSU by that much since the 3-8 season. There is no way Iowa State wins by more than a TD. NDSU will likely win by 7-10

chattownmocs

July 11th, 2014, 10:46 AM

Nobody has beaten NDSU by that much since the 3-8 season. There is no way Iowa State wins by more than a TD. NDSU will likely win by 7-10

So there is no one who could beat you by 17-21 in 2014? What kind of argument is that anyway. Things that havent happened in a long time in sports happen daily. Have you ever watched sportscenter?

chattownmocs

July 11th, 2014, 10:47 AM

In the third quarter and UNI answered immediately back with a TD to start the 4th.

If you'd watch the game you'd see it was never as close as the score showed.

The score is actually what determines whether a game is close. By your logic you could lose a game that you dominated, and then claim the game wasnt close.

dewey

July 11th, 2014, 11:54 AM

chattownmocs

July 11th, 2014, 12:08 PM

The last time NDSU lost by 17 or more was against Iowa State in 2009 by a score of 34-17. I am not saying Iowa State has no chance to win as that would be ridiculous but I still think with what NDSU has coming back that the Bison are better and will win.

Dewey

I will rephrase. If Iowa State beats NDSU, will NDSU fans still believe Northern Iowa is the best team on their schedule?