Men's soccer more popular than FCS football in a few decades?

[MplsBison]

Could this world cup finally be the spark that ignites soccer fever in the US, in terms of ratings and attendance sky rocketing?

Could there be one day in say 2050 that the NDSU men's soccer team outdraws the football team??

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Somehow I remember this same kind of thing being said in 1994. Then in 2002 until the US got knocked out in the quarterfinals.

[FormerPokeCenter]

Ann Coulter was right about Soccer.....and, further, if you TWO are illuustrative exemplars of the student body at NDSU, I'd say that Soccer will be outdrawing football much,much sooner than that ;)

Fortunately for NDSU, however, I don't think you two are Bison poster children...

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Ann Coulter was right about Soccer.....and, further, if you TWO are illuustrative exemplars of the student body at NDSU, I'd say that Soccer will be outdrawing football much,much sooner than that ;)

Fortunately for NDSU, however, I don't think you two are Bison poster children...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrgpZ0fUixs

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Could this world cup finally be the spark that ignites soccer fever in the US, in terms of ratings and attendance sky rocketing?

Could there be one day in say 2050 that the NDSU men's soccer team outdraws the football team??

I'd say anything is possible for sure especially with the way things are going with football in general right now. It doesn't really matter to me what future generations will want to attend as far as sports though.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I'd say anything is possible for sure especially with the way things are going with football in general right now. It doesn't really matter to me what future generations will want to attend as far as sports though.

Maybe on the local level but internationally, Americans will never get into it as long as it's so corrupt. The officiating is terrible and stupid dives are rewarded all the time. That will never fly here.

Look at the Netherlands/Mexico game to see how that one ended.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Maybe on the local level but internationally, Americans will never get into it as long as it's so corrupt. The officiating is terrible and stupid dives are rewarded all the time. That will never fly here.

Look at the Netherlands/Mexico game to see how that one ended.

I trust ya and think that's probably a good assessment. I don't watch so can't give much of stance on how things are/were done.

[Catatonic]

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/borowitzreport/2014/06/plan-to-replace-american-football-with-soccer-on-track-says-europe.html

“Once a country has socialism, national health care, and gay marriage, soccer is usually next.”

Just a matter of time. xsmiley_wix

[darell1976]

Maybe on the local level but internationally, Americans will never get into it as long as it's so corrupt. The officiating is terrible and stupid dives are rewarded all the time. That will never fly here.

Look at the Netherlands/Mexico game to see how that one ended.

I've seen less dives at a swim meet. The excitement over the World Cup will end once the US is gone, it happens every time the US is in the World Cup.

[clenz]

Maybe on the local level but internationally, Americans will never get into it as long as it's so corrupt. The officiating is terrible and stupid dives are rewarded all the time. That will never fly here.

Look at the Netherlands/Mexico game to see how that one ended.
Just like how there has never been corruption/colluion/terrible calls in the NFL, NBA, NCAAFB, NCAABB, MLB, etc...?

It's really only a matter of time. Will it ever catch the "big 3 (lumping NCAA in with NFL/NBA)"? No.

However, if the concussion issue doesn't go away we could start seeing more top level athletes picking up the game of soccer - remember it is the fastest growing sport in the nation. If the US could start pulling some of those athletes in, put money into it, and see results it's very very likely that the sport of soccer in America could become the solid #3 in America and a head of the FCS. I could pull numbers but I'd bet the MLS is crushing the FCS in average attendance and games on TV.

If the US find a way to the quarters, or higher power willing, the semi's it would be a MASSIVE boost for the sport in America. Yes, most of those watching now will go away, but a good number won't. A good number of kids will start playing. While they might not be what gets the US over the top that next generation is.

The US teams has fallen out of sight after the past couple world cups, but soccer was 1/3 of what it is now in America. The money spent on youth leagues, and player development, was a small fraction of what it is now.

Before I die the US will win a world cup.

[JayJ79]

comparing MLS soccer with FCS football seems a rather strange comparison.

You're taking the highest level of professional soccer in this country and putting it up against not the professional football league, not the top tier of collegiate football, but the secondary subdivision.

[PaladinFan]

For the record, Furman has about as good a men's soccer program as you will see from a school that also plays FCS football. They draw between 1-2k per home game. That is still significantly less than the 10-12k they will draw for a home football game.

Every sport has its quirks. I like soccer largely because I think it shares a lot of similarities with baseball. A game many that is "boring" to many that don't understand it and don't appreciate it.

[clenz]

For the record, Furman has about as good a men's soccer program as you will see from a school that also plays FCS football. They draw between 1-2k per home game. That is still significantly less than the 10-12k they will draw for a home football game.

Every sport has its quirks. I like soccer largely because I think it shares a lot of similarities with baseball. A game many that is "boring" to many that don't understand it and don't appreciate it.
To compare college soccer and college football isn't really fair at this point. There may be a time in the future that it is though.

Most universities will pump tens of thousands of dollars into marketing the football program and might spend a grand on soccer.

[clenz]

comparing MLS soccer with FCS football seems a rather strange comparison.

You're taking the highest level of professional soccer in this country and putting it up against not the professional football league, not the top tier of collegiate football, but the secondary subdivision.You're the one that started the thread...


Now, you're going to spin it into "YOU'RE MIS-INTERPENETRATING WHAT MY DUMB-ASS SAID. I SAID FCS SOCCER AND FCS FOOTBALL"

Well, **** you if you pull that.

The title of the thread is will men's soccer be more popular than FCS football.

The answer is yes, it will be more popular than FCS football in viewership in America.
The MLS, EPL, Bundisliga, Serie A, La Liga, etc... will all be far more popular than the FCS (or whatever the equivalent is at that point). Hell, they already are.
College soccer likely won't be but it may be close.
High school no.

Now, when it comes to participation the number of soccer players will likely dwarf the number of football players at that point.

[clenz]

Numbers from the 2010 season for men's, since it was the first response that popped up on Google.

There were 50 programs and 30 of them were over 1k average with 12 over 2k and a couple over 3 and 1 over 5k.

Considering where soccer was in America in 2010 that's not half bad.



2013 numbers show growth top to bottom. Multiple games over 10k in attendance. The coasts, unsurprisingly, are the schools leading the attendance for the most part. However, Akron, Creighton, Louisivlle, UNM, Indiana, St Louis, and Notre Dame are all over 1300.

It's a pretty cheap sport to run and if Title IX ever gets sorted out there's a chance that programs will be added and growth will be great

[citdog]

Last week genital herpes became more popular than mpls.

[MplsBison]

Just like how there has never been corruption/colluion/terrible calls in the NFL, NBA, NCAAFB, NCAABB, MLB, etc...?

It's really only a matter of time. Will it ever catch the "big 3 (lumping NCAA in with NFL/NBA)"? No.

However, if the concussion issue doesn't go away we could start seeing more top level athletes picking up the game of soccer - remember it is the fastest growing sport in the nation. If the US could start pulling some of those athletes in, put money into it, and see results it's very very likely that the sport of soccer in America could become the solid #3 in America and a head of the FCS. I could pull numbers but I'd bet the MLS is crushing the FCS in average attendance and games on TV.

If the US find a way to the quarters, or higher power willing, the semi's it would be a MASSIVE boost for the sport in America. Yes, most of those watching now will go away, but a good number won't. A good number of kids will start playing. While they might not be what gets the US over the top that next generation is.

The US teams has fallen out of sight after the past couple world cups, but soccer was 1/3 of what it is now in America. The money spent on youth leagues, and player development, was a small fraction of what it is now.

Before I die the US will win a world cup.

I agree 100% with this post.

I think you'll see more "MLS soccer specific" stadiums popping up in big cities over the next 10-20 years and it will be the third most popular professional field sport after NFL and MLB, with average home games in the 15-25k range.

I'm hoping Mpls will get a MLS franchise with the new Vikings stadium and then it will eventually move out into a MLS specific stadium by Target field.


And yes another aspect that could take some wind out of football's sails (if they don't do something to fix the problem) is the concussion issue. One only needs to read the recent articles on former U of MN and NFL tight end Ben Utecht to get a feel for what I mean here.

[bkrownd]

People like to harp on "diving" in soccer, but in fact acting to draw false penalties is also a prominent feature in American football. We're just used to that particular deception, and American culture demands a less flamboyant and cynical brand of faking than the cultures of many other countries find acceptable.

But anyhow, World Cup interest will not translate into widespread college soccer interest. Even if the World Cup interest eventually tops all other sports. Colleges just aren't the World Cup.

[FormerPokeCenter]

Do you mean like Stephen F. Austin's cramp faking scandal, or the generic, garden variety dramatic flair that most punters employ when they get brushed???


People like to harp on "diving" in soccer, but in fact acting to draw false penalties is also a prominent feature in American football. We're just used to that particular deception, and American culture demands a less flamboyant and cynical brand of faking than the cultures of many other countries find acceptable.

But anyhow, World Cup interest will not translate into widespread college soccer interest. Even if the World Cup interest eventually tops all other sports. Colleges just aren't the World Cup.

[bkrownd]

Do you mean like Stephen F. Austin's cramp faking scandal, or the generic, garden variety dramatic flair that most punters employ when they get brushed???

Besides the flopping kickers we got ballcarriers jerking their heads around to pretend they got facemasked, and linemen simulating holding (or exaggerating it since holding is allowed for the most part these days), quarterbacks playing dead or rolling around after a tackle to try go get roughing calls, and every wide receiver and defensive back who goes into gesticulating dramatics to pretend interference... Receivers even flop just like the soccer guys when they know they can't reach the pass and want a free flag.

[JayJ79]

You're the one that started the thread...

uh, no.

[Laker]

I agree 100% with this post.

I think you'll see more "MLS soccer specific" stadiums popping up in big cities over the next 10-20 years and it will be the third most popular professional field sport after NFL and MLB, with average home games in the 15-25k range.

I'm hoping Mpls will get a MLS franchise with the new Vikings stadium and then it will eventually move out into a MLS specific stadium by Target field.


And yes another aspect that could take some wind out of football's sails (if they don't do something to fix the problem) is the concussion issue. One only needs to read the recent articles on former U of MN and NFL tight end Ben Utecht to get a feel for what I mean here.

Where do you think the site will end up- in the Viking stadium with the Wilfs or over by the Farmer's Market under a different owner? I hadn't heard about a stadium closer to Target Field, but they would have light rail and parking there if they did. I never did figure out how they spooned Target Field into where they did.

Yes, Ben Utecht- that is really a sad deal. Writing songs to his kids because he is worried he may be losing it at his young age.

[darell1976]

Where do you think the site will end up- in the Viking stadium with the Wilfs or over by the Farmer's Market under a different owner? I hadn't heard about a stadium closer to Target Field, but they would have light rail and parking there if they did. I never did figure out how they spooned Target Field into where they did.

Yes, Ben Utecht- that is really a sad deal. Writing songs to his kids because he is worried he may be losing it at his young age.

Minnesota Kicks 2.0 (my dad still has a soccer ball signed by all the Kick's players)

[Laker]

Minnesota Kicks 2.0 (my dad still has a soccer ball signed by all the Kick's players)

I think that the Kicks were 9-0 in games that I attended- including blowing out the New York Cosmos in a playoff game.

I stopped at Bridgeman's who had a coupon for a free sundae if the Kick's won. I was sitting at the counter talking to the guy next to me about the game when a waitress asked if I played for the Kicks (I was 22 and had my Kicks shirt on). I told her no, I was just a fan. Then I heard a half a dozen other waitresses giggling behind me. Evidently she was the bravest one. I should have been thinking more quickly..............:D

[344Johnson]

I think that the Kicks were 9-0 in games that I attended- including blowing out the New York Cosmos in a playoff game.

I stopped at Bridgeman's who had a coupon for a free sundae if the Kick's won. I was sitting at the counter talking to the guy next to me about the game when a waitress asked if I played for the Kicks (I was 22 and had my Kicks shirt on). I told her no, I was just a fan. Then I heard a half a dozen other waitresses giggling behind me. Evidently she was the bravest one. I should have been thinking more quickly..............:D

I'm sure your wife appreciates how you handled the situation!

[walliver]

Unless football is banned, I doubt Soccer replaces it any time soon.
1) Soccer competes head-to-head with football, it doesn't have its own season.
2) Football is played on Saturday's, and is a social, as well as athletic event.
3) Many conferences do not even sponsor men's soccer.
4) It doesn't fit the American sports model (frequent time outs and commercial breaks).
5) There are concerns about concussion risks with soccer also.

When looking at pro sports, soccer is probably 5th at best.
The NFL is the king.
The NBA draws 20-25K per game and each team plays 80 games a year.
MLB draws around 20-30K during the week, but each team plays over a hundred games a year.
The NHL draws well in certain markets, and each team plays over 80 games a year (TV ratings suffer because the sport is practically ignored in large swaths of the country).

I'll admit that I have watched a number of World Cup matches, but I don't believe I have ever watched an entire MLS match.

[MplsBison]

Where do you think the site will end up- in the Viking stadium with the Wilfs or over by the Farmer's Market under a different owner? I hadn't heard about a stadium closer to Target Field, but they would have light rail and parking there if they did. I never did figure out how they spooned Target Field into where they did.

Yes, Ben Utecht- that is really a sad deal. Writing songs to his kids because he is worried he may be losing it at his young age.

A Minnesota MLS franchise would begin play in the new Vikings stadium. That's how they (the Wilfs) would land the team in the first place. It would be a situation similar to the Seattle Sounders playing in the Seahawks stadium.

But all the rage is building these 20k-25k "MLS specific" stadiums. I think the Wilfs would eventually lobby to get one built somewhere downtown Mpls.

As far as a stadium over by Target Field goes, that was going to be where the new Vikings stadium was going to be located. Everyone was behind that and creating a "stadium village" in that location. There were just a few hiccups that prevented it (in terms of acquiring some properties and where to relocate them) and it ultimately proved more cost-effective to build on top of the Metrodome site in Downtown East. And now with all the new development that they're going to pump into the StarTribune properties, with the new office buildings and "public" park in front of the stadium, it seems like it will work out well over there. But the site over by Target Field could still be good for a MLS stadium.

[MplsBison]

Unless football is banned, I doubt Soccer replaces it any time soon.
1) Soccer competes head-to-head with football, it doesn't have its own season.
2) Football is played on Saturday's, and is a social, as well as athletic event.
3) Many conferences do not even sponsor men's soccer.
4) It doesn't fit the American sports model (frequent time outs and commercial breaks).
5) There are concerns about concussion risks with soccer also.

When looking at pro sports, soccer is probably 5th at best.
The NFL is the king.
The NBA draws 20-25K per game and each team plays 80 games a year.
MLB draws around 20-30K during the week, but each team plays over a hundred games a year.
The NHL draws well in certain markets, and each team plays over 80 games a year (TV ratings suffer because the sport is practically ignored in large swaths of the country).

I'll admit that I have watched a number of World Cup matches, but I don't believe I have ever watched an entire MLS match.

The rest of the world seems to have found a way to monetize soccer on television. I'm sure we could figure it out.

Also, not sure what to make of your point two. Are you saying that soccer fans in the rest of the world don't socialize over the soccer match?? Hopefully not, because that would be an incredible comment.

[clenz]

Unless football is banned, I doubt Soccer replaces it any time soon.
1) Soccer competes head-to-head with football, it doesn't have its own season.
2) Football is played on Saturday's, and is a social, as well as athletic event.
3) Many conferences do not even sponsor men's soccer.
4) It doesn't fit the American sports model (frequent time outs and commercial breaks).
5) There are concerns about concussion risks with soccer also.

When looking at pro sports, soccer is probably 5th at best.
The NFL is the king.
The NBA draws 20-25K per game and each team plays 80 games a year.
MLB draws around 20-30K during the week, but each team plays over a hundred games a year.
The NHL draws well in certain markets, and each team plays over 80 games a year (TV ratings suffer because the sport is practically ignored in large swaths of the country).

I'll admit that I have watched a number of World Cup matches, but I don't believe I have ever watched an entire MLS match.
1. Mostly false. It is but it isn't head to head. The MLS is during the summer, football isn't. The EPL is over the winter but is played on Saturdays, not Sunday's like the NFL. You could say it is fighting the college football crowd but with the EPL games starting 7AM Central time there isn't a ton of overlap there. Then there's the FA, Europa, and Champions Cup and those matches are played during the week with no football competition - time of day is the only competition there.

2. I challenge you to research the atmosphere in Europe (Especially the Bundisliga, Seria A, La Liga, and Premiere League) and tell me they are just "an athletic event". You are so wrong it's not really worth going into much further detail.

3. That's not false, doesn't mean the growth can't be there. It doesn't mean that there won't be great growth in the club and professional markets in America.

4. That's not a bad thing. I can watch and entire match, start to finish, in damn near 2 hours flat. That's 90 minutes of game time, plus stoppage time, plus half time. That is MUCH nicer than 3.5 hours for a boring ass MLB game, 3.5 hours for a football game, and 3.5-3 hours for an NBA game - especially a game that's tight late. There was a chart after the first round of the playoffs that showed the length of time each game took to play the last 2 minutes. The average time was something like 17 minutes to play 2 minutes of game time. That's crazy.

5. Yes there is. Care to tell me how many concussions the EPL averages per season vs the NFL? Care to tell me which sport faces a MUCH larger issue with concussions and puts players at a MUCH higher risk/rate of concussions? Yeah, didn't think so.


Next set of points you tried to make
1. The NFL is king...but have you ever looked at viewing stats of the Super Bowl compared to larger soccer tournaments? The Super Bowl is completely dwarfed by those. Have you looked at the number of viewers NBCSN got for their 7 AM Saturday kick offs? They averaged about 700K viewers per game. That's not too shabby.
2. There isn't a single NBA team that averages ANYWHERE CLOSE to 25k....I mean not even close. This year the average attendance of NBA games was 17-18K...one of the best years since the mid-90s when the NBA was at a peak. Teams may play 82 games in a season, but only half of those are home dates so I'm not sure what you're trying to prove with that one. Is it that more home games means less people are going to try to get to each game?
3. Again, take the number of games and cut it in half. That's 81 dates. Do you really believe the attendance numbers the numbers posted? Even at that St Louis and San Francisco are the only two franchises to average over 90% capacity. Stadiums across the MLB are averaging about 75-80% capacity announced, and about 25% butts in seats.
4. The NHL draws well in about 4 markets and has been around for nearly a century. The games are almost impossible to find on TV and the sport, as a whole, is shrinking. There is a reason we hear on a yearly basis about franchises possibly moving/shutting down.


If you are willing to completely ignore the fact that soccer is the fastest growing sport in America, America is dumping infinitely more money into player/club development, the MLS opening something like 10 professional clubs (with more coming) in the last 8-10 years, the fact that starting this fall both NBC and Fox are going to be airing professional leagues from Europe, the fact that there are more MLS games on TV than NHL games, and pretty much everything else about soccer then yes, your arguments are 100% spot on the money.

However, anyone with any shred of common sense and intelligence can look at the facts and see the glaring issues with your take on soccer. I'd be willing to listen to your arguments more deeply if they actually made sense and were valid. When I can take 10 minutes and shoot MAC truck sized holes in them without much effort they are pretty dang weak.

[walliver]

I don't know what people are smoking, but saying soccer will pass football by comparing European Premiere League soccer with current amateur college football in the US is ridiculous. (That is what this thread is supposedly about: "Mens Soccer more popular than FCS football in a few decades"). The facts are that there isn't much of a tailgate scene with college soccer. Many FCS conferences don't sponsor men's soccer.

Being the "fastest growing" sport in American is kind of like getting the "most improved" award in an academic setting. It means you started so low that just about anything is an improvement.

[clenz]

Who is talking college soccer. Yes, it was discussed but the thread is asking about soccer, in general, becoming more popular than FCS football - a subdivision where the average attendance is something like 7-8K....not the sport of american football

The answer is yes, and it isn't going to take a couple decades.

Now, if you want to continue to twist things and play semantics and just be wrong...please continue.

[344Johnson]

I don't know what people are smoking, but saying soccer will pass football by comparing European Premiere League soccer with current amateur college football in the US is ridiculous. (That is what this thread is supposedly about: "Mens Soccer more popular than FCS football in a few decades"). The facts are that there isn't much of a tailgate scene with college soccer. Many FCS conferences don't sponsor men's soccer.

Being the "fastest growing" sport in American is kind of like getting the "most improved" award in an academic setting. It means you started so low that just about anything is an improvement.

College soccer will eventually be bigger than FCS football.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Just like how there has never been corruption/colluion/terrible calls in the NFL, NBA, NCAAFB, NCAABB, MLB, etc...?

It's really only a matter of time. Will it ever catch the "big 3 (lumping NCAA in with NFL/NBA)"? No.

However, if the concussion issue doesn't go away we could start seeing more top level athletes picking up the game of soccer - remember it is the fastest growing sport in the nation. If the US could start pulling some of those athletes in, put money into it, and see results it's very very likely that the sport of soccer in America could become the solid #3 in America and a head of the FCS. I could pull numbers but I'd bet the MLS is crushing the FCS in average attendance and games on TV.

If the US find a way to the quarters, or higher power willing, the semi's it would be a MASSIVE boost for the sport in America. Yes, most of those watching now will go away, but a good number won't. A good number of kids will start playing. While they might not be what gets the US over the top that next generation is.

The US teams has fallen out of sight after the past couple world cups, but soccer was 1/3 of what it is now in America. The money spent on youth leagues, and player development, was a small fraction of what it is now.

Before I die the US will win a world cup.

GOD I hope not...................and I dont think they will

[MplsBison]

Who is talking college soccer. Yes, it was discussed but the thread is asking about soccer, in general, becoming more popular than FCS football - a subdivision where the average attendance is something like 7-8K....not the sport of american football

The answer is yes, and it isn't going to take a couple decades.

Now, if you want to continue to twist things and play semantics and just be wrong...please continue.

I think his confusion is because of the example I gave in the original post. But a much better (and reasonable) discussion is MLS vs. FCS football.

[NHwildEcat]

I think his confusion is because of the example I gave in the original post. But a much better (and reasonable) discussion is MLS vs. FCS football.

MLS already dwarfs FCS football. There is no discussion in that regard. Hell, most MLS teams outdraw the low end of the FBS teams.

Also to additionally help MLS is that ESPN is ramping up their coverage along with FOX; neither of those networks cares a whole lot about FCS.

[NHwildEcat]

1. Mostly false. It is but it isn't head to head. The MLS is during the summer, football isn't. The EPL is over the winter but is played on Saturdays, not Sunday's like the NFL. You could say it is fighting the college football crowd but with the EPL games starting 7AM Central time there isn't a ton of overlap there. Then there's the FA, Europa, and Champions Cup and those matches are played during the week with no football competition - time of day is the only competition there.

2. I challenge you to research the atmosphere in Europe (Especially the Bundisliga, Seria A, La Liga, and Premiere League) and tell me they are just "an athletic event". You are so wrong it's not really worth going into much further detail.

3. That's not false, doesn't mean the growth can't be there. It doesn't mean that there won't be great growth in the club and professional markets in America.

4. That's not a bad thing. I can watch and entire match, start to finish, in damn near 2 hours flat. That's 90 minutes of game time, plus stoppage time, plus half time. That is MUCH nicer than 3.5 hours for a boring ass MLB game, 3.5 hours for a football game, and 3.5-3 hours for an NBA game - especially a game that's tight late. There was a chart after the first round of the playoffs that showed the length of time each game took to play the last 2 minutes. The average time was something like 17 minutes to play 2 minutes of game time. That's crazy.

5. Yes there is. Care to tell me how many concussions the EPL averages per season vs the NFL? Care to tell me which sport faces a MUCH larger issue with concussions and puts players at a MUCH higher risk/rate of concussions? Yeah, didn't think so.


Next set of points you tried to make
1. The NFL is king...but have you ever looked at viewing stats of the Super Bowl compared to larger soccer tournaments? The Super Bowl is completely dwarfed by those. Have you looked at the number of viewers NBCSN got for their 7 AM Saturday kick offs? They averaged about 700K viewers per game. That's not too shabby.
2. There isn't a single NBA team that averages ANYWHERE CLOSE to 25k....I mean not even close. This year the average attendance of NBA games was 17-18K...one of the best years since the mid-90s when the NBA was at a peak. Teams may play 82 games in a season, but only half of those are home dates so I'm not sure what you're trying to prove with that one. Is it that more home games means less people are going to try to get to each game?
3. Again, take the number of games and cut it in half. That's 81 dates. Do you really believe the attendance numbers the numbers posted? Even at that St Louis and San Francisco are the only two franchises to average over 90% capacity. Stadiums across the MLB are averaging about 75-80% capacity announced, and about 25% butts in seats.
4. The NHL draws well in about 4 markets and has been around for nearly a century. The games are almost impossible to find on TV and the sport, as a whole, is shrinking. There is a reason we hear on a yearly basis about franchises possibly moving/shutting down.


If you are willing to completely ignore the fact that soccer is the fastest growing sport in America, America is dumping infinitely more money into player/club development, the MLS opening something like 10 professional clubs (with more coming) in the last 8-10 years, the fact that starting this fall both NBC and Fox are going to be airing professional leagues from Europe, the fact that there are more MLS games on TV than NHL games, and pretty much everything else about soccer then yes, your arguments are 100% spot on the money.

However, anyone with any shred of common sense and intelligence can look at the facts and see the glaring issues with your take on soccer. I'd be willing to listen to your arguments more deeply if they actually made sense and were valid. When I can take 10 minutes and shoot MAC truck sized holes in them without much effort they are pretty dang weak.

The NHL draws well in 23 of their 30 markets. That is 90%+ in attendance, with 13 teams averaging a sell out. So you may want to do a little research when you say such outlandish comments. I cant' agree with your claim that there are more MLS games on TV than NHL that seems bogus as well considering that is ALL NBC has rights to these days. Although NBC is not helping itself with how they schedule the Stanley Cup.

Now the reason soccer can continue to grow is that it is a sport that can be played anywhere in the country. Hockey is a regionally based sport, that will not change. But in markets where hockey is included it is a top 2 or 3 sport. It's #3 in Boston that I can certainly claim--and in reality it is the best sport we have up here.

Just for reference:

The NBA draws well in 19 of their 30 markets. Only 8 with sellouts.

Baseball's attendance is pathetic...

[clenz]

I think his confusion is because of the example I gave in the original post. But a much better (and reasonable) discussion is MLS vs. FCS football.Agreed completely on this.

I'd venture a guess that the MLS, at the ripe age of 19, is probably just inches behind the FCS already.

The average MLS game this season is averaging 18-18,500k people per game. Do you remember what I said the NBA averaged? Between 17-18K. Wow, what's that? The MLS is outdrawing the NBA? What's that? The MLS has 17 of 19 teams averaging at least 15k and 18 of 19 over 13k? Those that don't follow the MLS won't understand the situation that Chivas is going through, but without their 7k bringing the MLS average down it jumps to closer to 19-20k per game. Hell, the MLS has more teams averaging over 20K than the NBA with 6 clubs over 20k and 3 more over 19.5k. 8 clubs averaging over 95% capacity with 5 averaging over 100% official capacity.

Quick check of the NFL shows that they averaged just a touch over 17k

Let's check the FCS numbers - average FCS game had 8,400 people. Now, the top 15-20 in attendance in the FCS is relatively comparable to the NBA/NHL/MLS in attednace but the FCS is losing two of the top 13.


That means the MLS outdraws the NBA, NHL, and FCS.


There are some great articles on the MLS out there. The league is facing some issues, no doubt about it, but the moementum is building.



http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/mar/12/mls-soccer-nfl-nba-mlb-nhl-epl-business
The first temptation is to compare the league to other North American professional sports, like the NFL, MLB, NBA and NHL. Of course, any comparison has to keep in mind that MLS is only 19 years old, a baby compared to the NFL (94), NHL (97) and MLB (145), and still many decades younger than the NBA, which was formed 68 years ago. Also, MLS has only 19 teams, compared to 32 NFL teams, 30 MLB, 30 NBA and 30 NHL.
...
The answer lies in the other major difference between the MLS and NFL, MLB, NBA, and NHL. Those leagues largely have monopolies on talent. Yes, some good baseball players play in Japan and Cuba, but most make their way to MLB. European basketball has grown by leaps and bounds, but the NBA is the destination point. Russia has a good hockey league but the best Russian player, Alex Ovechkin, laces up his skates for Washington, not St Petersburg. In comparison, MLS has to compete with the leagues of Europe and the riches of Mexico.

Couple all of that with the fact that New York City FC and Orlando FC start play in 2015 and Atlanta and Miami will begin play in 2016 and Minnesota pushing hard for a team with the opening of the new Vikings stadium your looking at a 24 team league by 2018. The issue the league is now facing is how many teams is too many. Minneapolis, San Antonio, Austin, and St. Louis are all rumored to be on a short list for teams by 2020. Minnesota seems the most likely. In 2011 the MLS commish said he saw no reason to go beyond 20 teams and it would take until 2020 to get there. Well, they're up to 23 teams by 2018 right now, so it only makes sense to round it off to 24 with one of the previously mentioned cities. I don't know that the league will get to 30 given the way that the league already has to fight for talent but I won't be shocked if it happens.



Again, any reasonable person knows that soccer is likely never going to pass American football and basketball in this country, on the whole. However, it's extremely fair to think that soccer can pass everything except the highest levels of D1 and NFL and pass all levels of of basketball except major conference CBB and NBA.

I would venture that unless the MLB changes something it is going to get passed in the next decade in popularity. Thanks to the ridiculous tv contract that MLB has it won't get passed in revenue but attendance and youth participation it will. Just look at how it's died in the last decade with attendance

[Laker]

A Minnesota MLS franchise would begin play in the new Vikings stadium. That's how they (the Wilfs) would land the team in the first place. It would be a situation similar to the Seattle Sounders playing in the Seahawks stadium.

But all the rage is building these 20k-25k "MLS specific" stadiums. I think the Wilfs would eventually lobby to get one built somewhere downtown Mpls.

As far as a stadium over by Target Field goes, that was going to be where the new Vikings stadium was going to be located. Everyone was behind that and creating a "stadium village" in that location. There were just a few hiccups that prevented it (in terms of acquiring some properties and where to relocate them) and it ultimately proved more cost-effective to build on top of the Metrodome site in Downtown East. And now with all the new development that they're going to pump into the StarTribune properties, with the new office buildings and "public" park in front of the stadium, it seems like it will work out well over there. But the site over by Target Field could still be good for a MLS stadium.

I grew up with the Kicks, North Stars, Twins, and Vikings (one year each for the Muskies and Pipers but I never got to see them0 in Bloomington. Much easier for me to get in and out on 494. When they moved downtown it cut the number of games that I went to. Location, location, location!

[MplsBison]

MLS already dwarfs FCS football. There is no discussion in that regard. Hell, most MLS teams outdraw the low end of the FBS teams.

Also to additionally help MLS is that ESPN is ramping up their coverage along with FOX; neither of those networks cares a whole lot about FCS.

Thanks for the post. Maybe MLS vs. college football, then?

But that's probably too much for it to overcome. Heck, you could well claim that college football outdraws the NFL. It's probably true in terms of average attendance, but not TV ratings or revenue.

[MplsBison]

I grew up with the Kicks, North Stars, Twins, and Vikings (one year each for the Muskies and Pipers but I never got to see them0 in Bloomington. Much easier for me to get in and out on 494. When they moved downtown it cut the number of games that I went to. Location, location, location!

Fair enough, but I must say that getting to Target Field to watch a Twins game is nothing. You come in on 394 and you can exit directly into the main parking ramps next to the stadium from the freeway. Walk from the ramp to the game and then do the reverse to go home. You never have to touch a downtown street.

[clenz]

Thanks for the post. Maybe MLS vs. college football, then?

But that's probably too much for it to overcome. Heck, you could well claim that college football outdraws the NFL. It's probably true in terms of average attendance, but not TV ratings or revenue.FBS average is only about 45K, the NFL out draws (per game) CFB.

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/football_records/Attendance/2013.pdf

I could see the MLS and the G5 (is it the G5 or P5 that are the rejects?) eventually being comparable.

Average attendance for the FBS conferences

Rank Division I FBS Teams Games Attendance Average In Avg.
1. Southeastern 75,674
2. Big Ten 70,431
3. Big 12 58,899
4. Pac-12 53,619
5. Atlantic Coast 49,982
6. American 33,712
7. Mountain West 26,080
8. Conference USA 21,510
9. Sun Belt 19,859
10. Mid-American 16,739

FCS averages
1. Southwestern Athletic 12,415
2. Southern 11,623 - about to fall WAY back with loss of ASU and GSU. They lose 238,334 of their 592,000 in attendance from last year. The avg without them is 9,038
3. Missouri Valley Football 10,722
4. Colonial 10,395
5. Ivy 9,382
6. Big Sky 8,949
7. Mid-Eastern Athletic 8,454
8. Southland 8,375
9. Ohio Valley 8,282
10. Big South 7,106
11. Patriot League 5,665
12. Pioneer League 4,112
13. Northeast 2,263

[MplsBison]

P5 = Power Five
G5 = Group of Five

[NoDak 4 Ever]

FBS average is only about 45K, the NFL out draws (per game) CFB.

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/football_records/Attendance/2013.pdf

I could see the MLS and the G5 (is it the G5 or P5 that are the rejects?) eventually being comparable.

Average attendance for the FBS conferences

Rank Division I FBS Teams Games Attendance Average In Avg.
1. Southeastern 75,674
2. Big Ten 70,431
3. Big 12 58,899
4. Pac-12 53,619
5. Atlantic Coast 49,982
6. American 33,712
7. Mountain West 26,080
8. Conference USA 21,510
9. Sun Belt 19,859
10. Mid-American 16,739

FCS averages
1. Southwestern Athletic 12,415
2. Southern 11,623 - about to fall WAY back with loss of ASU and GSU. They lose 238,334 of their 592,000 in attendance from last year. The avg without them is 9,038
3. Missouri Valley Football 10,722
4. Colonial 10,395
5. Ivy 9,382
6. Big Sky 8,949
7. Mid-Eastern Athletic 8,454
8. Southland 8,375
9. Ohio Valley 8,282
10. Big South 7,106
11. Patriot League 5,665
12. Pioneer League 4,112
13. Northeast 2,263

It all depends on the team. Some teams have rabid followings and some don't. I saw a game between Portland and Vancouver and there was almost nobody in the stands. Here with Sporting KC, it's bananas.

[NHwildEcat]

Thanks for the post. Maybe MLS vs. college football, then?

But that's probably too much for it to overcome. Heck, you could well claim that college football outdraws the NFL. It's probably true in terms of average attendance, but not TV ratings or revenue.

I think that would be a better comparison. But until the concussions drastically alter football in how it is played I feel that FBS will win out over MLS. It already does over the NHL and NBA.

[clenz]

It all depends on the team. Some teams have rabid followings and some don't. I saw a game between Portland and Vancouver and there was almost nobody in the stands. Here with Sporting KC, it's bananas.


Team
Avg
Capacity
Percent


Seattle
40,091
38,500
104.13%


Toronto
22,591
21,859
103.35%


Vancouver
21,000
21,000
100.00%


Portland
20,800
20,674
100.61%


Los Angeles
20,372
27,000
75.45%


Real Salt Lake
20,137
20,213
99.63%


Sporting KC
19,715
18,467
106.76%


Houston
19,437
22,039
88.19%


Montreal
19,394
20,521
94.51%


New YorK
18,182
25,189
72.18%


Philadelphia
17,976
18,500
97.17%


DC
16,839
19,467
86.50%


Dallas
16,459
20,500
80.29%


Chicago
15,603
20,000
78.02%


New England
15,355
20,000
76.77%


San Jose
15,318
10,525
145.54%


Colorado
14,137
17,424
81.14%


Columbus
13,076
20,145
64.91%


Chivas
7,277
18,800
38.71%

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I only know what I saw.

[clenz]

I only know what I saw.
I wasn't disagreeing with your assessment of the Sporting KC fan base. You are right on the money with them.

There are some franchises that don't have that strong of a fan base, there are some that a "meh" and then there is Chivas which is a complete dumpster fire for about 10000 reasons.

[clenz]

http://prosoccertalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/02/kaka-says-european-players-are-interested-major-league-soccer-wants-to-lift-league-to-top-in-us/?utm_source=FB%20-%20NBC%20Sports%20-%20NBC%20Sports%20Soccer&utm_network=facebook&utm_post=2841097&utm_tags=


“In Europe the players speak a lot to come to play in America,” Kaka said. “To other players I think I can show that the American league is a nice place to play.”


One nice aspect of Orlando City is the money although the team and Kaka are mum as to how much the 32-year-old is being paid. “Yes, they’re paying me good. I had to say this. But I had another opportunity to earn more than they are paying me here. So my decision is not about money.”


Instead, Kaka wants to be part of something. A movement. The growth of a league, one which he believes can become one of the five biggest in the world and therefore attract more international talent. His goal is nothing short of a dream that many soccer fans hold close to their hearts, despite dissenters: “My expectation is that soccer is going to be the first sport in America”.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I wasn't disagreeing with your assessment of the Sporting KC fan base. You are right on the money with them.

There are some franchises that don't have that strong of a fan base, there are some that a "meh" and then there is Chivas which is a complete dumpster fire for about 10000 reasons.

I'm not posting this to be inflammatory. Whatever you think of Keith Olbermann, he is a VERY good sportscaster. His real talk on soccer is spot on.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6z7-u7EZ1g

[clenz]

I'm not posting this to be inflammatory. Whatever you think of Keith Olbermann, he is a VERY good sportscaster. His real talk on soccer is spot on.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6z7-u7EZ1g
I'll have to watch that when I get home.

I try very hard to separate his politics from his sports.

He is great sometimes - he had a killer take on the NBA moving the "NBA Logo" from the shoulder to the back and what it means going forward about a week or so ago.

I still find 95% of his show to be complete garbage.

[FormerPokeCenter]

Soccer doesn't appeal to most American athletes from a pure athleticism standpoint, like - say - football, track, basketball or even baseball does. In some respects, Ann Coulter's piece on Soccer was spot on.

There's a different mindset inherent to Soccer. It's more of a collectivist undertaking. There are bits and pieces of raw athleticism, but - for the most part - you have to throttle back and play chess at about 1/2 to 3/4 of your maximum athletic output level...

It's an endurance sport, to be sure...

Most Americans are conditioned to gravitate toward sports where you use your athletic ability individually, in furtherance of a team goal. Even offensive linemen who labor in obscurity find the personal challenge of lining up across the line from another guy and seeing who's got the chops to knock who in the mouth for the entire game...

The American goalie had a helluva individual performance, but beyond that, Soccer's much like watching a buncha guys run 5ks while dribbing balls with their feet...

I will say this. The dive taking is on par with your typical punter after incidental contact...

It's not quite SFA faking a cramp good, but it's still pretty compelling theater!

[clenz]

Soccer doesn't appeal to most American athletes from a pure athleticism standpoint, like - say - football, track, basketball or even baseball does. In some respects, Ann Coulter's piece on Soccer was spot on.

There's a different mindset inherent to Soccer. It's more of a collectivist undertaking. There are bits and pieces of raw athleticism, but - for the most part - you have to throttle back and play chess at about 1/2 to 3/4 of your maximum athletic output level...

It's an endurance sport, to be sure...

Most Americans are conditioned to gravitate toward sports where you use your athletic ability individually, in furtherance of a team goal. Even offensive linemen who labor in obscurity find the personal challenge of lining up across the line from another guy and seeing who's got the chops to knock who in the mouth for the entire game...

The American goalie had a helluva individual performance, but beyond that, Soccer's much like watching a buncha guys run 5ks while dribbing balls with their feet...

I will say this. The dive taking is on par with your typical punter after incidental contact...

It's not quite SFA faking a cramp good, but it's still pretty compelling theater!
I'm not going to go soccer snob on you, but soccer is much more than watching guys run 5k (if for no other reason to over simplify for most Americans than they run much closer to a 10-12K most games).

If you don't think it takes an athlete to play soccer at a high level...well...sorry, but you're wrong.

I'm not a fan of diving, HOWEVER, they are very effective and can be quite strategic.

[FormerPokeCenter]

I'm not going to go soccer snob on you, but soccer is much more than watching guys run 5k (if for no other reason to over simplify for most Americans than they run much closer to a 10-12K most games).

If you don't think it takes an athlete to play soccer at a high level...well...sorry, but you're wrong.

I'm not a fan of diving, HOWEVER, they are very effective and can be quite strategic.

We may very well have a difference of opinion on what athleticism is all about. I'll give them their props for being incredible endurance athletes, but I'm not sure how many of them could stand the direct contact inherent to, say, American football...

If you go to watch Youth or even High School soccer, in this country, you'll see a few "athletes" here or there, but most will be kids who'd have a hard time advancing past junior varsity on their local American football team...

It just doesn't attract the American athletes like it does overseas, where it's the entrenched "Only game in town"....

And, even then, the kids who can really sprint end up gravitating toward track and field....in the US, there are tons of talented sprinters on the football fields...

As an example, here's a video of a Colin Isles, an American Sprinter who's playing professional rugby, where the athletes are - on balance - in the same speed range as soccer players...

It's an incredibly noticeable difference....


http://www.wimp.com/olympicsprinter/

Isles has a 10.13 time in the 100 meter, which was in the top 50 of the US...but there are droves of guys who run better than 10.6 in the US and most of them are playing football...

A guy who could run a 10.6 or better would make a typical soccer game look like it was in slow motion...

[clenz]

We may very well have a difference of opinion on what athleticism is all about. I'll give them their props for being incredible endurance athletes, but I'm not sure how many of them could stand the direct contact inherent to, say, American football...

If you go to watch Youth or even High School soccer, in this country, you'll see a few "athletes" here or there, but most will be kids who'd have a hard time advancing past junior varsity on their local American football team...

It just doesn't attract the American athletes like it does overseas, where it's the entrenched "Only game in town"....
And, even then, the kids who can really sprint end up gravitating toward track and field....in the US, there are tons of talented sprinters on the football fields...You have a very very narrow sense of athleticism.

[FormerPokeCenter]

You have a very very narrow sense of athleticism.

As you said, you played in Division III. What you've seen and competed against is probably vastly different than what I've experienced...

[clenz]

I supposed you feel this

http://tonybruno.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/andre-smith.jpg

is more athletic than
http://imagesyoulike.com/images/rcjg/32x24/j0506.jpg

[FormerPokeCenter]

If you lined them up and had them compete in the same sports, the guy on the top would literally kill the guy on the bottom if they were to undertake a one on one full contact drill...

By the same token, I think the guy on the top would likely drop dead of a heart attack if he had to play and entire soccer game, so there's the trade off...

My view of an ATHLETE is a guy who can pretty much do anything or who could excell in any sport...Could some soccer players be effective wide receivers? Probably....but, I'd like to see a WR get a shot as a goalie in Soccer. I think the results would be pretty interesting...

I've got a friend who was a starting goalie at South Carolina and who's a very avide bike rider. But, he's not an "athlete" in the football/track sense of the word....

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I'll have to watch that when I get home.

I try very hard to separate his politics from his sports.

He is great sometimes - he had a killer take on the NBA moving the "NBA Logo" from the shoulder to the back and what it means going forward about a week or so ago.

I still find 95% of his show to be complete garbage.

Whatever. It's basically "stop trying to be Europe". Americans want an American game

[clenz]

As you said, you played in Division III. What you've seen and competed against is probably vastly different than what I've experienced...
Oh...now we are going this route?

I had players on my team who were on full rides at Iowa, Iowa State, Illinois, etc... before transferring. I played against guys who were the same. I was on the same high school team as a guy who just got drafter (Tyler Starr...as well as a UNI LB who was All Conference up here in Jordan Gacke). I was also on the same HS team as 2 guys who played at Iowa.

You can pull that **** all you want. Fact of the matter is you have a VERY narrow sense of what athleticism is if you think only football skill is athleticism.


But, what do I know. I chose to plat a D3 rather than walk on at one of the D1's that was recruiting me...so I'm dumb

[clenz]

If you lined them up and had them compete in the same sports, the guy on the top would literally kill the guy on the bottom if they were to undertake a one on one full contact drill...

By the same token, I think the guy on the top would likely drop dead of a heart attack if he had to play and entire soccer game, so there's the trade off...

My view of an ATHLETE is a guy who can pretty much do anything or who could excell in any sport...Could some soccer players be effective wide receivers? Probably....but, I'd like to see a WR get a shot as a goalie in Soccer. I think the results would be pretty interesting...

I've got a friend who was a starting goalie at South Carolina and who's a very avide bike rider. But, he's not an "athlete" in the football/track sense of the word....
So you're whole idea of an athlete is who would beat up who?

Damn.

[FormerPokeCenter]

So you're whole idea of an athlete is who would beat up who?

Damn.


In their respective skills sets, they're both athletic. If you think the big guy's not athletic, it's possible that YOU'RE the one who has a very narrow view...

Serious question.

Do you think the best US Athletes play soccer? It's a yes or no question....

[clenz]

In their respective skills sets, they're both athletic. If you think the big guy's not athletic, it's possible that YOU'RE the one who has a very narrow view...

Serious question.

Do you think the best US Athletes play soccer? It's a yes or no question....Have I claimed he wasn't athletic - like you have with soccer players?

Do I think the best are? No.
Do I think the best of the best will? No. I've said that multiple times.

I would call what Ronaldo can do, on the whole, way more impressive athletically than what Andre Smith can do

[FormerPokeCenter]

Have I claimed he wasn't athletic - like you have with soccer players?

Do I think the best are? No.
Do I think the best of the best will? No. I've said that multiple times.

I would call what Ronaldo can do, on the whole, way more impressive athletically than what Andre Smith can do


Okay, in recruiting, sometimes colleges sign kids as "an athlete" because they're not sure where they're going to use him. Same holds true with the pros. Sometimes they draft a kid who's incredibly athletic to fill a need at a position he's never played. My friend Stephen Starring fit this mold. He was a college QB, but got drafted in the second round as a WR and KR, despite never having played that, primarily based on his 4.2 time in the 40, his 13.6 in the 110 High hurdles, his 10.28 in the 100, his 26 foot long jump and ability to go over 50 feet in the triple jump.

Armanti Edwards and the Cadet kid from App State were similarly drafted to play positions they didn't play in college...

There are guys who are good players at respective sports and then there are "athletes"...

Soccer has a lot of good players....they don't have a lot of what I would consider "athletes"...in the recruiting sense of the word...

A sumo wrestler's power, agility and balance make him athletic. He might look like ****, but he's nevertheless an athlete. Same thing with some offensive and defensive linemen...

If you're going to base a person's athleticism on how they look, I'm afraid you're setting yourself up for consistent disssapointment.

Look at Cross fitters, for instance. Many of them have great builds and great levels of fitness. That doesn't make them all around athletes, those they're great "fitness athletes"...

It's largely a semantic distinction, but thank you for answering the question correctly.

The top US Athletes DON'T gravitate toward Soccer. They gravitate toward sports that challenge them.

Soccer's an egalitarian, everyman sport. You don't have to be an elite athlete to be competitive, which is why it enjoys the wide appeal that it does...

If you're a better than average endurance athlete, you'll do well in soccer...

[TheRevSFA]

If you don't think Soccer is on the rise in the USA, take a look at MLS and the amount of expansion they are doing, and being successful at doing it.

[clenz]

I challenge you take step onto a pitch with even an average MLS player - keep in mind the MLS is probably on par with the 3rd or 4th league in England and just try to do ANYTHING they do.

You're view of athleticism is based solely on how strong someone is and how they'd perform on a football field.

They don't look like football players because they haven't trained their muscle groups to look like Patrick Willis.

I really don't get what you are trying to get at here other than finding a new way to bash the sport...

[FormerPokeCenter]

Ronaldo is probably an 11.3 to 11.5 sprinter in the 100 meters. It's not terribly slow, but it's not really fast, either. He looks fast because he's competing on the field against other moderately athletes...

11.3 to 11.5 will get you 4th, 5th or 6th at most HS track meets in the US...

[clenz]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2242229/Cristiano-Ronaldo-runs-nearly-fast-Usain-Bolt-100m.html

But...facts....well...who needs them.

[FormerPokeCenter]

Pointing out the obvious isn't bashing the sport.

You said it yourself. The BEST US athletes don't pay it.

Listen to be one point away from the Quarterfinals in the World Cup is a feather in the US cap, considering that the guys on the field aren't the top flight athletes in this country, like they are in the rest of the world...

That's significant....

In the US, we like to see peak athletic performance. We want to see a guy return a kickoff 90 yards for a touchdown. We want to see that pitch around the end go for 80 yards. It's a simple test of athletic ability. You keep the ball in your position, hit and run over the guys who stand in your way and when you get the chance, you out sprint them...

Soccer's different. It's not really about balls to the wall peak performance...


I challenge you take step onto a pitch with even an average MLS player - keep in mind the MLS is probably on par with the 3rd or 4th league in England and just try to do ANYTHING they do.

You're view of athleticism is based solely on how strong someone is and how they'd perform on a football field.

They don't look like football players because they haven't trained their muscle groups to look like Patrick Willis.

I really don't get what you are trying to get at here other than finding a new way to bash the sport...

[clenz]

Again though, what does his 100M dash time, or top speed, have to do with his athleticism?

By that standard pretty much all lineman are unathletic.


You're spinning circles here.

[clenz]

P
Soccer's different. It's not really about balls to the wall peak performance...
Then why even mention that you don't think Ronaldo is a world class sprinter?

Dude, you are spinning so many circles right now it's nauseating to keep up with.

[FormerPokeCenter]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2242229/Cristiano-Ronaldo-runs-nearly-fast-Usain-Bolt-100m.html

But...facts....well...who needs them.

That video's not playing for me. "Video does not exist."

[clenz]

Seriously, just take 10 minutes and watch videos of soccer players dribbling down the field running at 75% top speed and watch what they can do.

No, you go do that at 10% speeds.

[FormerPokeCenter]

Again though, what does his 100M dash time, or top speed, have to do with his athleticism?

By that standard pretty much all lineman are unathletic.


You're spinning circles here.

Nobody's spinning any circles. You, yourself, admitted it. The best US Athletes don't play soccer.

Why are you belaboring the point...

[clenz]

There are literally hundreds of Ronaldo videos out there show casing his speed and how quickly he cuts and moves WITH THE BALL IN HIS POSSESSION.

Here's 1.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BM_Dp-ypjVQ

[FormerPokeCenter]

Seriously, just take 10 minutes and watch videos of soccer players dribbling down the field running at 75% top speed and watch what they can do.

No, you go do that at 10% speeds.

I watched a Youtube video of the claim that Ronaldo covered 96 meters in 10 seconds...there are several flaws....first, the video is slightly sped up, so covering that distance took longer than 10 seconds...second, it was from a flying start..so....I'm gonna stand by the fact that, at best, he's an 11.3 to 11.5, and the reason this is significant is because with his level of athleticism, it's likely that Soccer is the ONLY sport at which he could excel ;')

[FormerPokeCenter]

This is interesting....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZqEj-Qyg6U

3.6 seconds for 25 meters (27.34 yards) equates to a 4.8 - 4.9 in the 40...

The zig zag course is telling, of course the sprinter ran it in tennis shoes, while Ronoldo ran it in cleats, giving him a decided cornering advantage...

Again, a 4.9 in the 40, for a guy widely considered to be a speedster, doesn't sway the argument for soccer players being great "athletes." Do they have great endurance?

Absolutely...

But, this is the reason that soccer doesn't do better in the US....

Get a 4.4 guy who can dribble the ball, and more people in the US might take notice...

[TheRevSFA]

You both are comparing apples to oranges on this one. Two different types of game. Two different types of athletes.

There's a reason why American Football has stoppage of play and timeouts and breaks. They couldn't go for 45 minutes straight, then break for 15, then go for another 45.

Soccer isn't as physically enduring as American Football in terms of sheer violence. Sure there are horrible tackles and broken noses, but you aren't hitting the same as you would in football

So this argument in terms of the type of athlete is quite moot.

[FormerPokeCenter]

To a degree, you're right, but if you took a Stephan Starring, or an Armanti Edwards or a Cadet and put them on a soccer field, there would be a startling degree of athletic separation between them and most of the players on the field...

[TheRevSFA]

To a degree, you're right, but if you took a Stephan Starring, or an Armanti Edwards or a Cadet and put them on a soccer field, there would be a startling degree of athletic separation between them and most of the players on the field...

You think? You think Armanti Edwards, with his amazing ability for football, has the muscle groups built to play soccer or at least dribble a ball? I doubt it man.

Like I said..both sports take great athletes, but different types.

[FormerPokeCenter]

He can accelerate, cut, carry his speed, see defenders and "run to day light"....dribbling, while not easy, wouldn't be that big of a deal to a true skill player who's A.) Not having to worry about getting tackled by a linebacker and B.) Not carrying 35 lbs of pads, nor C.) Having his vision obstructed by a helmet....

I think an American football QB, tailback, WR or Corner's skill set would transfer to soccer favorably. And, what he'd lack in ball handling finesse, he'd more than make up for with the tremendous speed advantage....

[clenz]

He can accelerate, cut, carry his speed, see defenders and "run to day light"....dribbling, while not easy, wouldn't be that big of a deal to a true skill player who's A.) Not having to worry about getting tackled by a linebacker and B.) Not carrying 35 lbs of pads, nor C.) Having his vision obstructed by a helmet....
You're hopeless.


You really are.

[FormerPokeCenter]

How about we do this...When I need some expert advice on Division III athletics, I'll call you.

For all other matters, I'll go with what makes sense...

Color me not impressed by a guy who's full on sprint is a 4.9 in the 40, and - ostensibly - slower when he's dribbling...

That he looks explosively faster than the rest of the guys he plays against doesn't persuade me that a guy with real athleticism wouldn't be able to dominate that league...

When the best American athletes start to play soccer, if they ever do, you'll see what I'm talking about ;)

[MplsBison]

Oh weird. FPC comes in a takes a dump on the thread with his insulting trolling.

If you don't respond to him, he goes away.

[clenz]

When MPLS calls you out for trolling you know you've done a s*** load of trolling.

[Bisonoline]

Oh weird. FPC comes in a takes a dump on the thread with his insulting trolling.

If you don't respond to him, he goes away.

Doesnt work with you.

[FormerPokeCenter]

Oh weird. FPC comes in a takes a dump on the thread with his insulting trolling.

If you don't respond to him, he goes away.


How is an objective analysis considered trolling?

[344Johnson]

How is an objective analysis considered trolling?

The best athletes from a majority of the world go into soccer and you are dumb enough to imply they aren't athletic.

[FormerPokeCenter]

They're not Athletic in the American sense. Look at Ronoldo. 6'1, 165 lbs, 4.8 in the 40.

Could he see playing time at any position on an American football field?

I mean, aside from being a place kicker?

It's significant that people have already admitted that the best American athletes don't play soccer, yet the American soccer team was one goal away from advancing to the quarterfinals...

The post that I replied to posed the question as to why soccer's not as popular here as it is in the rest of the world...

The answers is two-fold.

1,) America likes to see more athleticism.

2.) Soccerr isn't a game that exalts individual acheivement. It's a collective game. Even in US team sports, individual achievement is exalted and encouraged.

Fundamentally, soccer isn't a good fit for the American psyche...

[344Johnson]

They're not Athletic in the American sense. Look at Ronoldo. 6'1, 165 lbs, 4.8 in the 40.

Could he see playing time at any position on an American football field?

I mean, aside from being a place kicker?

It's significant that people have already admitted that the best American athletes don't play soccer, yet the American soccer team was one goal away from advancing to the quarterfinals...

The post that I replied to posed the question as to why soccer's not as popular here as it is in the rest of the world...

The answers is two-fold.

1,) America likes to see more athleticism.

2.) Soccerr isn't a game that exalts individual acheivement. It's a collective game. Even in US team sports, individual achievement is exalted and encouraged.

Fundamentally, soccer isn't a good fit for the American psyche...

Could he play? If he was raised watching and training to be a football player I have little doubt he could.

The US was a goal away from the quarterfinals because the goalie stood on his head.

Also... You keep throwing 4.8 and similar numbers out for his speed.... Has he ever done the training and testing?

Plenty of talent around the world could succeed in the NFL....

[FormerPokeCenter]

I posted a link to a video above where he was pitted against a sprinter from Spain. Ronoldo recorded a 3.6 second time over 25 meters (slightly more than 27 yards). The 4.8 is a very FAVORABLE extrapolation. If you took his yard per second figue for the 25 meter run which was recorded with slow mo cameras, and fit it to 40 yards, it would actually translate to 5.2 or higher. He's accelerating from zero, so you can't convert it like that, because he'll hit top speed at some point and his speed will be constant, instead of a gradual acceleration...

If you assume a one tenth of a second per yard velocity, you'd add 1.3 seconds to his 3.6 to get the 4.9. That's favorable to him because one tenth per yard is what a guy who ran a 10 flat 100 yard dash would run, and that's been born out by examination of Accutrak finish photos...

The slo mo cameras reveal that his stride length is 1.75 meters, so it would take him slightly more than 5 strides to cover 10 meters....4 strides (or less) is optimal for guys who have "decent" speed or better...

So...again.....6'1, 165, 4.8. What position, other than place kicker, could he dominate the way he dominates in World Cup??

I'll await your answer...

And, remember, he's considered MUCH faster than the other players he competes against, even though he's a 4.8 guy, at best...

But, back to my original post, again, Soccer's not taking over here, like it does elsewhere, because Americans want to see a sport that values incredible athleticism and individual achievement.

Soccer is a collectivist sport...

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Could he play? If he was raised watching and training to be a football player I have little doubt he could.

The US was a goal away from the quarterfinals because the goalie stood on his head.

Also... You keep throwing 4.8 and similar numbers out for his speed.... Has he ever done the training and testing?

Plenty of talent around the world could succeed in the NFL....

It's like a cheetah, you can run fast but for how long? NFL players actually move for only about 11 minutes a game. Those that run the most run about 1.5 miles total (WR and CB). In contrast a soccer player runs about 9.5 miles. There are no time outs save for injury and the clock never stops.

I'm not sure how more athletic you can get.

http://gizmodo.com/5992583/how-far-do-you-run-in-different-sports

[Yotes]

Is someone like David Ortiz athletic in the American sense? Because I'm confident that every soccer player ever is more athletic than he is.

[AshevilleApp2]

I posted a link to a video above where he was pitted against a sprinter from Spain. Ronoldo recorded a 3.6 second time over 25 meters (slightly more than 27 yards). The 4.8 is a very FAVORABLE extrapolation. If you took his yard per second figue for the 25 meter run which was recorded with slow mo cameras, and fit it to 40 yards, it would actually translate to 5.2 or higher. He's accelerating from zero, so you can't convert it like that, because he'll hit top speed at some point and his speed will be constant, instead of a gradual acceleration...

If you assume a one tenth of a second per yard velocity, you'd add 1.3 seconds to his 3.6 to get the 4.9. That's favorable to him because one tenth per yard is what a guy who ran a 10 flat 100 yard dash would run, and that's been born out by examination of Accutrak finish photos...

The slo mo cameras reveal that his stride length is 1.75 meters, so it would take him slightly more than 5 strides to cover 10 meters....4 strides (or less) is optimal for guys who have "decent" speed or better...

So...again.....6'1, 165, 4.8. What position, other than place kicker, could he dominate the way he dominates in World Cup??

I'll await your answer...

And, remember, he's considered MUCH faster than the other players he competes against, even though he's a 4.8 guy, at best...

But, back to my original post, again, Soccer's not taking over here, like it does elsewhere, because Americans want to see a sport that values incredible athleticism and individual achievement.

Soccer is a collectivist sport...


xlolx Damn Commies!


Carry on!

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Haven't thread thru this thread but I'll take FCS football....xnodx

[BigDGarciaFan]

Keith Olbermann explained his 7 ways on his program on ESPN, now i explain my 7 ways soccer can work. before i explain my seven ways, i want to say this; Soccer is a great and interesting sport, and america's interest in the sport is on an all-time high during this World Cup season. so here it goes from 7 to 1. read real sharp!

7. KNOW the HISTORY; its great to know the history of the game, so know it. the more you know, the more youll love soccer.
6. SHARE SOCCER POSTING and TALK ABOUT IT at dinner table: print flyers, share soccer related posting on FB, twitter, etc. no sharing about "going to the club", or "having a few beers talking about ga-ga." or "watching the big boxing match". call a friend, convince them about a major soccer event on TV or near your area. get them hooked. it can be a major topic of discussion, better that talking about "a purse you saw at Old Navy."
5. WATCH IT IF YOUR OTHER TEAMS(NFL, NHL, college, NBA) ARENT PLAYING. if you live in a city with a major pro sports team, or college team, and theyre not playing. meaning if theres a soccer game on TV, switch to any channel that has soccer and watch.
4. EURO CUP FINAL AS GREAT SOCCER EVENT EVERY YEAR. the UEFA Champions league final is the biggest annual pro soccer event of the year, airs a day before the indy 500. treat it as if it were the super bowl(the same for the world cup which ill explain in 1)
3. SUPPORT YOUR NATIONAL TEAM. if the US team(or women) are ever on TV, you tune in and watch. they are our team, and we watch them. have your kids watch with you
2. SKIP THE NIGHTLIFE, SOCCER IS BETTER THAN NIGHTLIFE SOCIALIZING. no going to nightclubs(that hasnt have tv that show soccer games, no more listing to techno music in the mornings or evenings, and no concerts on days of a world cup game, US national team game, your local pro soccer team game(MLS, NASL, etc)
unless theres a good reason to miss it(jury duty, death in family, kid's sports game, work, etc)
1. WORLD CUP AS BIGGEST SPORTING EVENT. Treat the World Cup Final as if it was Super Bowl sunday. you bring your friends over, set up the drinks and bbq pit, watch every minute of it.

[Bisonoline]

Keith Olbermann explained his 7 ways on his program on ESPN, now i explain my 7 ways soccer can work. before i explain my seven ways, i want to say this; Soccer is a great and interesting sport, and america's interest in the sport is on an all-time high during this World Cup season. so here it goes from 7 to 1. read real sharp!

7. KNOW the HISTORY; its great to know the history of the game, so know it. the more you know, the more youll love soccer.
6. SHARE SOCCER POSTING and TALK ABOUT IT at dinner table: print flyers, share soccer related posting on FB, twitter, etc. no sharing about "going to the club", or "having a few beers talking about ga-ga." or "watching the big boxing match". call a friend, convince them about a major soccer event on TV or near your area. get them hooked. it can be a major topic of discussion, better that talking about "a purse you saw at Old Navy."
5. WATCH IT IF YOUR OTHER TEAMS(NFL, NHL, college, NBA) ARENT PLAYING. if you live in a city with a major pro sports team, or college team, and theyre not playing. meaning if theres a soccer game on TV, switch to any channel that has soccer and watch.
4. EURO CUP FINAL AS GREAT SOCCER EVENT EVERY YEAR. the UEFA Champions league final is the biggest annual pro soccer event of the year, airs a day before the indy 500. treat it as if it were the super bowl(the same for the world cup which ill explain in 1)
3. SUPPORT YOUR NATIONAL TEAM. if the US team(or women) are ever on TV, you tune in and watch. they are our team, and we watch them. have your kids watch with you
2. SKIP THE NIGHTLIFE, SOCCER IS BETTER THAN NIGHTLIFE SOCIALIZING. no going to nightclubs(that hasnt have tv that show soccer games, no more listing to techno music in the mornings or evenings, and no concerts on days of a world cup game, US national team game, your local pro soccer team game(MLS, NASL, etc)
unless theres a good reason to miss it(jury duty, death in family, kid's sports game, work, etc)
1. WORLD CUP AS BIGGEST SPORTING EVENT. Treat the World Cup Final as if it was Super Bowl sunday. you bring your friends over, set up the drinks and bbq pit, watch every minute of it.

You really should have put this in the joke thread. Much humor here.

[DSUrocks07]

The anti-soccer crowd is the most comical of any anti-(insert sport here) crowd there is.

They serious take soccer/football as a personal attack on their values and well being xlolx

[dungeonjoe]

As long as a team can advance by losing, it will never be popular. As George S. Patton said, "America loves a winner."

[Bisonoline]

The anti-soccer crowd is the most comical of any anti-(insert sport here) crowd there is.

They serious take soccer/football as a personal attack on their values and well being xlolx

Really?

[NoDak 4 Ever]

As long as a team can advance by losing, it will never be popular. As George S. Patton said, "America loves a winner."

Olympic hockey is the same way. Pool play is not uncommon in tournament sports.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[FormerPokeCenter]

Like I said, soccer appeals to those with socialist leanings. I bet everybody gets a ribbon for participating, too, eh?

Long live the subjective evaluation, rather than the objective metric of head to head competition...

How else do you explain leaving Landon Donovan off the squad?

You don't leave your best stud hoss in the barn and expect American sports fans to take you seriously...

[Yotes]

I don't think I could ever stand to watch professional soccer. I enjoy watching the national teams, it reminds me of the same integrity that I enjoy seeing in college sports. They are giving it all to bring pride to their country, not just showing up for a paycheck. If I had to watch the same kind of mentality I see in the NBA or NFL, but on the soccer field, I'd probably die of boredom. It's such a hard sport to watch, the flopping alone is enough to make me lose interest.

[Yotes]

Like I said, soccer appeals to those with socialist leanings. I bet everybody gets a ribbon for participating, too, eh?

Long live the subjective evaluation, rather than the objective metric of head to head competition...

How else do you explain leaving Landon Donovan off the squad?

You don't leave your best stud hoss in the barn and expect American sports fans to take you seriously...
And you can't call soccer a socialist sport and expect anyone here to take you seriously.

[clenz]

I don't think I could ever stand to watch professional soccer. I enjoy watching the national teams, it reminds me of the same integrity that I enjoy seeing in college sports. They are giving it all to bring pride to their country, not just showing up for a paycheck. If I had to watch the same kind of mentality I see in the NBA or NFL, but on the soccer field, I'd probably die of boredom. It's such a hard sport to watch, the flopping alone is enough to make me lose interest.

Do you want me to post the endless videos there are of NFL, NCAAFB, NBA and NCAABB flopping?

The "flopping" argument is as weak as the "socialist" argument.

Professional soccer through clubs (the Premier League, La Liga, Serie A, etc...) are all actually might better to watch than the World Cup. The WC teams play maybe 10-15 matches a year together...maybe. Professional clubs play 40-60 games together per year. It's much more fluid and entertaining.

I challenge you to find a good bar to watch the game at (one where a clubs supporters watch) and tell me you don't love that experience. I will grant you that soccer, like hockey, is MUCH better in person than TV.

I hated soccer with a passion growing up. The first time I actually watched a full match was the 2010 World Cup. A buddy of mine invited me to play a WC pool. I knew nothing but figured "why not". That caused me to watch nearly every game of the WC that year. I ended up winning the pool, even with knowing nothing. I thought that was proof of how dumb the sport was and stopped watching for about a year and a half. Then I started catching some Premier League game son TV, started catching the Champions League, the FA Cup, the Europa Cup, etc... and before I knew it I was completely hooked.

The sport isn't for everyone, doesn't mean that those of us who like it can't try to grow the sport. People like to complain about "soccer snobs" being terrible people for trying to force the game down peoples throats and then telling them "you just don't understand". Yes, those people are assholes. However, the anti-soccer snob (i.e. FormerPolkCenter) are heads and shoulders a head of soccer snobs in terms of being an asshole and a douche.

[clenz]

As long as a team can advance by losing, it will never be popular. As George S. Patton said, "America loves a winner."

So...like a team getting into the playoffs in the NFL despite losing their last two or three regular season games, all because someone lost their game as well?

[FormerPokeCenter]

You mad, Bro??

[Bisonoline]

So...like a team getting into the playoffs in the NFL despite losing their last two or three regular season games, all because someone lost their game as well?

But you are not in the regular season. This is the Championship. In the NFL when you get to the playoffs you are out if you lose.

NCAA MBB. 64 teams. You lose youre out.

[FormerPokeCenter]

Shhhhhsh.....facts have no place in a discussion about Soccer.

[clenz]

But you are not in the regular season. This is the Championship. In the NFL when you get to the playoffs you are out if you lose.

NCAA MBB. 64 teams. You lose youre out.
That's what the knock out stages are.

Group stages are like the regular season with the knockout as the playoffs.

Really not that hard to understand

[clenz]

The exact and system is used in every Olympic team sport... People don't seem to have an issue there

[Bisonoline]

That's what the knock out stages are.

Group stages are like the regular season with the knockout as the playoffs.

Really not that hard to understand

Didnt say I didnt understand it. Just dont like it.

[Bisonoline]

The exact and system is used in every Olympic team sport... People don't seem to have an issue there

But I do. Never liked the hockey set up at all.

[citdog]

Do you want me to post the endless videos there are of NFL, NCAAFB, NBA and NCAABB flopping?

The "flopping" argument is as weak as the "socialist" argument.

Professional soccer through clubs (the Premier League, La Liga, Serie A, etc...) are all actually might better to watch than the World Cup. The WC teams play maybe 10-15 matches a year together...maybe. Professional clubs play 40-60 games together per year. It's much more fluid and entertaining.

I challenge you to find a good bar to watch the game at (one where a clubs supporters watch) and tell me you don't love that experience. I will grant you that soccer, like hockey, is MUCH better in person than TV.

I hated soccer with a passion growing up. The first time I actually watched a full match was the 2010 World Cup. A buddy of mine invited me to play a WC pool. I knew nothing but figured "why not". That caused me to watch nearly every game of the WC that year. I ended up winning the pool, even with knowing nothing. I thought that was proof of how dumb the sport was and stopped watching for about a year and a half. Then I started catching some Premier League game son TV, started catching the Champions League, the FA Cup, the Europa Cup, etc... and before I knew it I was completely hooked.

The sport isn't for everyone, doesn't mean that those of us who like it can't try to grow the sport. People like to complain about "soccer snobs" being terrible people for trying to force the game down peoples throats and then telling them "you just don't understand". Yes, those people are assholes. However, the anti-soccer snob (i.e. FormerPolkCenter) are heads and shoulders a head of soccer snobs in terms of being an asshole and a douche.

soccer is for 8 year olds and commies

[clenz]

But I do. Never liked the hockey set up at all.

The San Antonio Spurs lost 7 games this post season...
Last season the Red Sox lost 5 post season games...

I take it they didn't deserve the title?

[FormerPokeCenter]

The San Antonio Spurs lost 7 games this post season...
Last season the Red Sox lost 5 post season games...

I take it they didn't deserve the title?

The phrase "best of five" or "best of seven" has a specific meaning....

You can lose a few, head to head, but - on balance, you have to win more than you lose to advance past the team you face.

Except in soccer...

[clenz]

The phrase "best of five" or "best of seven" has a specific meaning....

You can lose a few, head to head, but - on balance, you have to win more than you lose to advance past the team you face.

Except in soccer...

There wasn't a single team with a losing record that advanced out of group stage.
There hasn't been a single team to advance after the group stage without winning.

[clenz]

I also don't believe a team has ever advanced with a losing record. That would mean the most points they could have is 3 (1 win and 2 losses). While in theory is possible for them to advance it's nearly impossible. They'd have to have won that one hand by 5 or more goals and have the two teams they lost to finish...


Well, wait... Head to head comes before goal differential so...

It's pretty much impossible to advance with 2 losses

[Twentysix]

The phrase "best of five" or "best of seven" has a specific meaning....

You can lose a few, head to head, but - on balance, you have to win more than you lose to advance past the team you face.

Except in soccer...

Group stage is best of three round robin with a goal tiebreaker. After it is sudden death. Imo the NCAA tournament could be more interesting with a similar setup. All of the same seeds duke it out in a group stage, then there is just 1-16 remaining after. You would have a ton of super competitive games, then a realistic shot for a 14-15 to win the tournament.

- - - Updated - - -


Group stage is basically best of three with a goal tiebreaker. After it is sudden death.

It is somewhat similar to college baseball/softball.

[dungeonjoe]

soccer is for 8 year olds and commies
Don't forget the biters.

[DSUrocks07]

Really?
*looks through constant comments about how soccer is anti-American and socialist.*

Yes, really.

Inb4 the ban soccer movement starts.

I wonder what Joe McCarthy's grandkids are up to these days.

[344Johnson]

Like I said, soccer appeals to those with socialist leanings. I bet everybody gets a ribbon for participating, too, eh?

Long live the subjective evaluation, rather than the objective metric of head to head competition...

How else do you explain leaving Landon Donovan off the squad?

You don't leave your best stud hoss in the barn and expect American sports fans to take you seriously...

Landon Donovan is old.... And has severe problems staying motivated. Would you want a guy on your team who takes months off at a time?

[FormerPokeCenter]

Michael Jordan was old and took off two years to go take batting practice.

Nobody questioned the wisdom of taking him back when was finished shagging flies...

[344Johnson]

Michael Jordan was old and took off two years to go take batting practice.

Nobody questioned the wisdom of taking him back when was finished shagging flies...

Don't compare an all time great..... To Landon Donovan.

[FormerPokeCenter]

Landon Donovan is the all time leading scorer in US World Cup history...

He's scored more World Cup goals than Ronoldo Christiana....

Tell me how, as of this moment, Donovan wouldn't be considered one of the US All Time great soccer players??

[clenz]

Michael Jordan was old and took off two years to go take batting practice.

Nobody questioned the wisdom of taking him back when was finished shagging flies...
MJ probably still at least touched a basketball during thar time.

Donnovan did nothing except go live in the thirs world. When he came back he assumed that he'd walk right into the starting XI and wouldn't have to work for it.

He was wrong and wasn't one if the best 23 so he got left home

[FormerPokeCenter]

This is why you can't take American soccer seriously. Fans have to dispense with objectivity and reality...

[DSUrocks07]

This is why you can't take American soccer seriously. Fans have to dispense with objectivity and reality...

Saying that Donovan should have been on the US team "just because" is neither objective or realistic.

He didn't play in a single qualifier. I would have more sympathy for him if he was in at least a couple matches. But the idea that once we qualified he can roll out of bed and play is ridiculous.

EDIT: He actually expected to start, because there would be no way he would allow himself to be a sub.

[344Johnson]

Landon Donovan is the all time leading scorer in US World Cup history...

He's scored more World Cup goals than Ronoldo Christiana....

Tell me how, as of this moment, Donovan wouldn't be considered one of the US All Time great soccer players??

Being a 32 year old "all time great" for the US doesn't mean much.

He abandoned the team. He is over the hill. These are facts. Does he America their best chance to win? Jurgen said no. I would trust a coach who won everything as a player over media types who just wanted to be able to write about Landon's last hurrah.

[FormerPokeCenter]

No worries...

I think he'll be remembered for the September 2013 last hurrah that saw him integrally involved in two goals to seal the US win over Mexico and actually QUALIFY for the World Cup...you know, the 2-0 win that wouldn't have occurred but for his corner kick and, later, a tap in shot in the 78th minute?

Admittedly, I don't follow soccer, but if he was involved in the two goals that sealed a win over Mexico for the US to actually QUALIFY for the World Cup, how can it be said, as DSUrocks indicates, that he didn't play in a single qualifier?

[citdog]

I think Donovan would have banged that in off the set play instead of choking like the Furman guy did. Once a paladin always a paladin.

[poly51]

On the West Coast college soccer seems to be more rivalry driven than soccer fan driven. Here are a few attendance figures from the 2013 season

Cal Poly vs UC Santa Barbara 11075 (Stadium cap)
Cal Poly vs Sac State 2242
Cal Poly vs UC Davis 723
Cal Poly vs Cal State Fullerton 1208
Cal Poly vs UC Riverside 3526
Cal Poly vs Yale 1336
Cat Poly at UCLA 613

UC Santa Barbara does not have any football.

UC Santa Barbara vs Cal Poly 12805
UCSB vs Yale 3023
UCSB vs Stanford 7705
UCSB vs Cal State Northridge 1832
UCSB vs Cal State Fullerton 3510

UCLA vs Stanford 1092
UCLA vs Number 1 Cal 1643
UCLA vs Number 3 Washington 1952
USC does not have soccer.

[DSUrocks07]

I would argue that college soccer is actually harming the development of potentially successful American born soccer players. A freshman soccer player here in some leagues would be entering their second or third year professionially.

If soccer is going to be successful in the states it needs to be revamped structually from the ground up. The MLS soccer academies are a good start.

[bonarae]

http://www.espnfc.com/blog/men-in-blazers/95/post/1935574/is-americas-passion-for-soccer-realor-a-fad

The article above can answer some of your questions in the previous pages...

DSUrocks07: Tennis can relate to that too. Some foreign-born tennis players on the ATP and WTA tours played U.S. college tennis (e.g. Benjamin Becker), but John Isner also played college tennis as well. (Note: Most college tennis players do not bring their games to ATP/WTA after they graduate.) But think of some more such as Sloane Stephens, she turned pro before she turned 18 (I believe). Notice the career paths of some European tennis players that are household names (Djokovic, Nadal, Federer, etc.) They all turned pro before they turned 18.

[FormerPokeCenter]

As a quick aside, and to tie the previous post to this message board, Sloane Stephens is the daughter of former Northwestern State standout and New England Patriot John Stephens who was an NFL rookie of the year...

[MplsBison]

The anti-soccer crowd is the most comical of any anti-(insert sport here) crowd there is.

They serious take soccer/football as a personal attack on their values and well being xlolx

There are a few nutjobs that patrol the forums looking for any way they can preach their political/lifestyle ideologies to anyone who will listen.

The solace you can take is that since they're extremists they'll never hold a majority. And they'll never be able to convince the actual majority of centrists that their extremism is the correct way. Thus, their numbers remain small.

[FormerPokeCenter]

There are a few nutjobs that patrol the forums looking for any way they can preach their political/lifestyle ideologies to anyone who will listen.


When does the rest of your autobiography come out?

[gotts]

Good thing I found this dumpster fire tonight... might have actually had to put another log on the fire instead!

[FormerPokeCenter]

19228