65% of WKU students vote to move to I-A

[wkukid]

In an online poll that had almost no press at students voted 64.6% to move to I-A football. Looking more and more like we'll be leaving you all.

http://www.bgdailynews.com/articles/2006/10/25/local_news/news/news4.txt

[FlyYtown]

The Gateway Commissioner was in Youngstown last week and on our tv broadcast, noted that WKU is going to be moving to the Sun Belt liekly by 09.... So they are looking at other options..

[JMU2004]

c-ya....have fun in the Sun-Belt

man, that FAU game the other night SURE looked awesome!!!

[douglasdmb]

Seriously...much congrats to WKU on making the move to I-A, but the Sun Belt has got to be the most boring conference in all of Div. I football. Seems like every weekend there's a conference game that ends in 6-0 score.

[BearsCountry]

Good luck WKU! I'm sure the Bears will be there in a few.

[*****]

The article was interesting... I replied:
Hey Brian,
Just read your interesting article "Student vote favors I-A football."

You wrote: "Under new rules, all I-A football teams will receive at least a small share of revenue from the 30 bowl games held every year."

All I-AA teams also receive a share.

You wrote: "With 119 I-A schools and 60 bowl game berths, there are more postseason opportunities than in I-AA, in which 123 teams vie for 16 playoff spots.

There are 122 teams in I-AA this year of which six are in transition. The Ivy League does not allow its teams to participate in the postseason. The Gridiron Classic is a postseason game for the top teams in the Pioneer Football League and the Northeast Conference. The Southwestern Conference has a postseason championship and two members have games that conflict with the playoffs. 6+8+2+5(max) = 21 teams not vying for the NCAA D-I Football Championship. NCAA D-I Football Championship playoff selection requires teams to have at least seven D-I victories, last year about 40 teams had seven victories of any sort. So really less than 50 I-AA teams vie for 16 playoff spots.

You wrote: "Western is in violation of the federal Title IX law, which requires equal spending on men's and women's sports. However, unlike most schools in violation, Western is spending more on women's scholarships than men's. The 23 additional football scholarships required by a move to I-A would balance that."

Western Kentucky would at most need 22 more scholarships for football.

Besides that, wow! Those are hefty increases in tuition and student fees! I guess someone has to pay for a move to I-A's worst conference. ;)

Cheers!

[PantherRob82]

Hilarious, Ralph. Looks like the students in Bowling Green aren't too bright.

[BisBison]

Good luck WKU! I'm sure the Bears will be there in a few.

I thought you guys were talking about dropping football entirely a bit ago. What gives:confused:

[walliver]

A total of 2,136 students voted in the poll, but 441 voted only for homecoming queen and left the football question blank. The 1,695 students who voted represent about 9 percent of the school's nearly 19,000 enrollment.

This poll seems to be as statistically meaningful as the polls in the lounge.

[PantherRob82]

I thought you guys were talking about dropping football entirely a bit ago. What gives:confused:

I heard C-USA

[Toppermaniac]

The move to the Sun Belt is temporary. We're just getting in the 1-A door right now. The plan is to move to Conf. USA, MAC, or another conference as soon as we can. I'm not sure this move is a good idea, but it's coming one way or another.

[PantherRob82]

Only good thing about it is that we may be welcoming some new blood into the Gateway.

[dbackjon]

I heard C-USA

I heard Big-12, after Missouri becomes the 12th member of the Big 10.

[PantherRob82]

I bet you'd see Notre Dame in the Big 10 before Missouri. Always wondered if they'd change the name if Notre Dame joined.

[MplsBison]

What about YSU to the MAC?

I have to think they'd love to be in the same conference as Akron and Kent (not to mention the directional Michigans, BG, Toledo, Ohio, Miami, and Ball State not being that far of a drive).

If WKU, MSU, and YSU all leave, what does that leave the GFC with? ISU, SIU, UNI, InSu, and WIU?

4 damn good teams and 1 horrible team.

Maybe they should kick InSU out and add 4 more quality teams. Perhaps NDSU, SDSU, UND, and USD?

[douglasdmb]

It's so hard to even think of us moving up to I-A when we haven't beaten a Div. I team all season. I know things will change, though.

Go Bears!

[wkukid]

Hilarious, Ralph. Looks like the students in Bowling Green aren't too bright.

1. The article was written in the local paper not the student paper

2. Just because you disagree with them doesn't make them "not too bright." In fact, you saying that all WKU students aren't smart makes yourself sound pretty dumb.

[REALBird]

What about YSU to the MAC?

I have to think they'd love to be in the same conference as Akron and Kent (not to mention the directional Michigans, BG, Toledo, Ohio, Miami, and Ball State not being that far of a drive).

If WKU, MSU, and YSU all leave, what does that leave the GFC with? ISU, SIU, UNI, InSu, and WIU?

4 damn good teams and 1 horrible team.

Maybe they should kick InSU out and add 4 more quality teams. Perhaps NDSU, SDSU, UND, and USD?

Illinois State recently unveiled it's plans for a renovation of Hancock Stadium to increase capacity from 15,000 to 24,000. As the largest or second largest 1-AA school by enrollment figures, I highly doubt we are doing this to stay in the GFC.

So there is likely going to be a scenario in which WKU, MSU, YSU, and ILS could all be looking to leave the GFC in the next 5+ years.

Does the GFC raid the OVC (EIU, Murray State), try to convince a few Pioneer League teams to move up (Dayton, Drake???), or even raid the Southland for schools like UCA?

Stay Tuned.

[JackJD]

Does the GFC raid the OVC (EIU, Murray State), try to convince a few Pioneer League teams to move up (Dayton, Drake???), or even raid the Southland for schools like UCA?

Stay Tuned.

Don't you think the Gateway will look at North Dakota State U and South Dakota State U?

[Mr. C]

The move to the Sun Belt is temporary. We're just getting in the 1-A door right now. The plan is to move to Conf. USA, MAC, or another conference as soon as we can. I'm not sure this move is a good idea, but it's coming one way or another.
Give me a break. What would WKU have to offer any of those conferences as a football school? About the only team that draws a decent crowd to WKU games is Eastern Kentucky and the move to I-A may kill that rivalry. I still think this is a tremendously dumb idea. We will see the Hilltoppers as bottom feeders in I-A, just like all of those other Sun Belt teams that have immigrated up from I-AA.

[ucdtim17]

I bet you'd see Notre Dame in the Big 10 before Missouri. Always wondered if they'd change the name if Notre Dame joined.


To the Big XII? There already are 11 teams

[ucdtim17]

And ND is not ever joining a conference

[galojay]

Does the GFC raid the OVC (EIU, Murray State), try to convince a few Pioneer League teams to move up (Dayton, Drake???), or even raid the Southland for schools like UCA?

Stay Tuned.

I doubt EIU and Murray would be allowed to leave OVC Football for the Gateway. Most (all?) conferences require you to play every sport the conference offers, in the conference.

[galojay]

Give me a break. What would WKU have to offer any of those conferences as a football school? About the only team that draws a decent crowd to WKU games is Eastern Kentucky and the move to I-A may kill that rivalry. I still think this is a tremendously dumb idea. We will see the Hilltoppers as bottom feeders in I-A, just like all of those other Sun Belt teams that have immigrated up from I-AA.

WKU's wild card is Basketball. The C-USA is not happy with it's basketball situation, especially if Memphis doesn't move, then their will be a lot of pressure by Memphis to bring in quality basketball program. When you look at the SBC, WKU brings the best basketball. WKU already has one of the highest athletic budgets in the SBC, without I-A and the $3.5 million additional investment it will bring.

[therealbigredrules]

The article was interesting... I replied:

Besides that, wow! Those are hefty increases in tuition and student fees! I guess someone has to pay for a move to I-A's worst conference.
Cheers!


1) I love 1-AA football

2) The Sun Belt Sucks. I-A football is only one part a much larger view of WKU's long run strategic plan

3) The President has said that the tuition and fee increases would happen with or without I-A football. The increase is at or near the max allowed by the Legislature for KY.

4) Expenses vs Cash - They are not the same!

5) Cash Income is not the same as revenue

6) Yes I-A football cost more...but the real story is on the cashflow page.

[BearsCountry]

WKU's wild card is Basketball. The C-USA is not happy with it's basketball situation, especially if Memphis doesn't move, then their will be a lot of pressure by Memphis to bring in quality basketball program. When you look at the SBC, WKU brings the best basketball. WKU already has one of the highest athletic budgets in the SBC, without I-A and the $3.5 million additional investment it will bring.

Missouri State is in the same boat as WKU. While the Valley is really good for men's hoops, CUSA is an upgrade for all other sports.

[*****]

... 4) Expenses vs Cash - They are not the same!
5) Cash Income is not the same as revenue
6) Yes I-A football cost more...but the real story is on the cashflow page.I am confused!

[BearsCountry]

I thought you guys were talking about dropping football entirely a bit ago. What gives:confused:

Ironcially WKU had the same thoughts a few years ago.

MSU's talk of dropping football was by a local Title 9 nazi. She thinks the school should just have women's sports.

[Psychored]

I am confused!

Yes, you ARE confused!! But you're just a 1-AA homer who does his best to try and discredit those that attempt to better themselves. :eyebrow:

[PantherMan]

Is moving to the Sun Belt really a step in the right direction? CUSA is pretty watered down...but at least they have the possibility of squeezing a decent team or two out now and then. There will NEVER be a contender in the Sun Belt... If you lined up all the teams in the Sun Belt and the teams in the Gateway, I'd wager on Gateway teams winning a majority of the games...without the additional scholarships.:twocents: xcoffeex

[BearsCountry]

Is moving to the Sun Belt really a step in the right direction? CUSA is pretty watered down...but at least they have the possibility of squeezing a decent team or two out now and then. There will NEVER be a contender in the Sun Belt... If you lined up all the teams in the Sun Belt and the teams in the Gateway, I'd wager on Gateway teams winning a majority of the games...without the additional scholarships.:twocents: xcoffeex

Well you have to start somewhere, you are the new kid on the block you cant join the best right away.

[Tod]

Yes, you ARE confused!! But you're just a 1-AA homer who does his best to try and discredit those that attempt to better themselves. :eyebrow:

Perhaps you can explain this for those of us that do not understand:


3) The President has said that the tuition and fee increases would happen with or without I-A football. The increase is at or near the max allowed by the Legislature for KY.

4) Expenses vs Cash - They are not the same!

5) Cash Income is not the same as revenue

6) Yes I-A football cost more...but the real story is on the cashflow page.

Please, enlighten us. I'm confused too. Lots of mentioning of money, but nothing that actually provides any useful information.

[wkukicksbutt]

First, let me clear a few things up. We are probably going to go I-A in the Sun Belt if our Board of Regents approves the decision on November 2. I can see the move being a stepping stone in order to get into another conference. We already have a home-and-home contract with Indiana, and are negotiating with Navy and South Florida for home and homes. For people wondering, we are also going to continue the EKU series for at least the next 10 years. We will be playing at EKU every other year no matter if we move or not. When we do move to the Sun Belt, we will already have a rivalry with Middle Tennessee. It is only a 2 hours away and the two schools have a lot of history. Mostly WKU dominated. After a few years and a lot more conference shuffling, don't be surprised to see both MTSU and Western to move to Conference USA. Unlike MTSU, we won't be playing a ton of money games. According to our president, we will only play 1 money game a year. If the vote is approved, we will become a transitional I-a member for the next two years, meaning we can't play in a bowl game or the i-aa playoffs. Then, in 2009, we will be in the Sun Belt conference. Also, we are adding a second side to the stadium adding a few thousand seats to the stadium making the capacity around 20,000. The NCAA requires the attendance for its 1-a members to be 15,000 avg. WKU averaged about 13,000 last year. I can't wait until we move on up, just like the Jeffersons.

[Mr. C]

Yes, you ARE confused!! But you're just a 1-AA homer who does his best to try and discredit those that attempt to better themselves. :eyebrow:
Is playing in the horrendous Sun Belt, the worst I-A conference, bettering yourself? Is watching your once elite I-AA football program turn into a bad to mediocre one bettering yourself? Is watching a black hole of money sap away from the rest of your athletic programs bettering yourself? That's what has happened at almost all of the schools that have moved from I-AA to I-A. Hope you enjoy yourself with all of those 4-7 seasons that are around the corner.

[redbirdtim]

This would never happen and may not even make sense...but it's 2 am and I'm tired.

Get Illinois State, SIU, WKU, MSU, Wichita St. (have them start football again), UNI, and Tulsa. Then, add Creighton and Bradley as non-football members. Would lose Evansville and Drake, but you gain WKU and Tulsa. The MVC does what it is doing in basketball...:smiley_wi

[blur2005]

First, let me clear a few things up. We are probably going to go I-A in the Sun Belt if our Board of Regents approves the decision on November 2. I can see the move being a stepping stone in order to get into another conference. We already have a home-and-home contract with Indiana, and are negotiating with Navy and South Florida for home and homes. For people wondering, we are also going to continue the EKU series for at least the next 10 years. We will be playing at EKU every other year no matter if we move or not. When we do move to the Sun Belt, we will already have a rivalry with Middle Tennessee. It is only a 2 hours away and the two schools have a lot of history. Mostly WKU dominated. After a few years and a lot more conference shuffling, don't be surprised to see both MTSU and Western to move to Conference USA. Unlike MTSU, we won't be playing a ton of money games. According to our president, we will only play 1 money game a year. If the vote is approved, we will become a transitional I-a member for the next two years, meaning we can't play in a bowl game or the i-aa playoffs. Then, in 2009, we will be in the Sun Belt conference. Also, we are adding a second side to the stadium adding a few thousand seats to the stadium making the capacity around 20,000. The NCAA requires the attendance for its 1-a members to be 15,000 avg. WKU averaged about 13,000 last year. I can't wait until we move on up, just like the Jeffersons.
This being your only post on AGS, it indicates your incredible breadth of knowledge on the subject of I-AA football and how much better I-A is for teams not in the BCS. Congratulations, I hope you enjoy Sun Belt football, as it is truly the most exciting non-BCS conference in I-A football. Just ask Florida International.

[*****]

Yes, you ARE confused!!...isn't that a basketball towel your avatar is waving? Maybe you are on the wrong board. :nod:

[bobcatalum05]

Illinois State recently unveiled it's plans for a renovation of Hancock Stadium to increase capacity from 15,000 to 24,000. As the largest or second largest 1-AA school by enrollment figures, I highly doubt we are doing this to stay in the GFC.

So there is likely going to be a scenario in which WKU, MSU, YSU, and ILS could all be looking to leave the GFC in the next 5+ years.

Does the GFC raid the OVC (EIU, Murray State), try to convince a few Pioneer League teams to move up (Dayton, Drake???), or even raid the Southland for schools like UCA?

Stay Tuned.

Illinois State is not the largest or Second Largest DI-AA.

Texas State, Cal Poly, and UC Davis are all larger. There are probablly others out there that are larger that I dont know about.

[ErkPeterson]

Illinois State is not the largest or Second Largest DI-AA.

Texas State, Cal Poly, and UC Davis are all larger. There are probablly others out there that are larger that I dont know about.
What is ISU's enrollement? we're a lil over 16K. I would love to see what our students would say for the same poll. It wouldl be high no doubt..IMO.

[GannonFan]

Hey, I'm impressed that 65% of students at WKU even realized they play football there. WKU's never been what one would call a hotbed of football and it's hard to see how playing teams those kids still won't know (Troy, LA-Monroe, Fla Intl, Fla Atlantic) will really stoke the fire at WKU. Moving for basketball is one thing, although the MVC and the CAA have shown you can make a big splash in basketball without having to sell your soul and athletice department upriver to do it. And the CUSA ain't what it used to be basketball-wise (or even football-wise and it was never good in football anyway) so if that's the ultimate destination that has to be questioned. A move that everyone's seen coming, but still no good answers on how this will be successfull for WKU. Best of luck, though, to them, and don't let the door hit you on the way out.

[AppGuy04]

Welcome to the I-A gutter, have fun WKU

[MplsBison]

Hey, I'm impressed that 65% of students at WKU even realized they play football there. WKU's never been what one would call a hotbed of football and it's hard to see how playing teams those kids still won't know (Troy, LA-Monroe, Fla Intl, Fla Atlantic) will really stoke the fire at WKU. Moving for basketball is one thing, although the MVC and the CAA have shown you can make a big splash in basketball without having to sell your soul and athletice department upriver to do it. And the CUSA ain't what it used to be basketball-wise (or even football-wise and it was never good in football anyway) so if that's the ultimate destination that has to be questioned. A move that everyone's seen coming, but still no good answers on how this will be successfull for WKU. Best of luck, though, to them, and don't let the door hit you on the way out.

They'll still have EKU to play.

And now MTSU. Perhaps that game will become the big thing every football season.

[galojay]

Moving for basketball is one thing, although the MVC and the CAA have shown you can make a big splash in basketball without having to sell your soul and athletice department upriver to do it. And the CUSA ain't what it used to be basketball-wise (or even football-wise and it was never good in football anyway) so if that's the ultimate destination that has to be questioned. A move that everyone's seen coming, but still no good answers on how this will be successfull for WKU. Best of luck, though, to them, and don't let the door hit you on the way out.

I don't see the MVC expanding, so that is not an option. As a I-AA school, WKU cannot hope for any better of a basketball situation coming along (again, MVC and A-10 are not expanding). Going I-A, while still in the SBC for now, does potentially open up new doors that would otherwise not be available.

I don't expect everyone on this board (or anyone) to agree with the move. I just have to trust the WKU administration that they know what is best for the institution.

[therealbigredrules]

isn't that a basketball towel your avatar is waving? Maybe you are on the wrong board. :nod:


WKU’s Legendary basketball coach…..was also the coach of our FOOTBALL Team. IT is not just a basketball towel.

[youwouldno]

I'm surprised 35% of their students are intelligent. Man, the other 65% must be looking forward to some great rivalries, like North Texas and Arkansas State.

[therealbigredrules]

I am confused!

How can it be that Ford loses $5.8 billion in Q3 but yet has the ability to stay in business?????

The $5.8 Billion was not Cash.

The cash outflow to a consolidated WKU checking account of 22 more football scholarships is nowhere near $2.2 Million to WKU. Fact, expenses are overstated if you do not look at the incremental cash outflow and only look at an allocation of tuition. On the other side however, the WKU check book will get cold hard cash of $2.2 Million in fees....:D to pay the bond for the football stadium and the real cash expenses of extra coaches, travel, and a few extra teachers.

Let me put it this way, the last time I tried to deposit "revenue" into my bank account, they asked me to come back with some cash. Or to put it this way, on a consolidated basis, taking into account all "foundations" and other WKU entities, WKU is not going to go to it bank and deposit the "revenue" it received from the athletic department's 22 extra scholarships..its not real cash....But again, it will deposit cold hard cash from student fees to pay real cash expenses....

[therealbigredrules]

I'm surprised 35% of their students are intelligent. Man, the other 65% must be looking forward to some great rivalries, like North Texas and Arkansas State.

It was not 35% of WKU's students...it was 35% of the students who took the survey. But hey, who cares about the details......right?

[BearsCountry]

I don't see the MVC expanding, so that is not an option. As a I-AA school, WKU cannot hope for any better of a basketball situation coming along (again, MVC and A-10 are not expanding). Going I-A, while still in the SBC for now, does potentially open up new doors that would otherwise not be available.

I don't expect everyone on this board (or anyone) to agree with the move. I just have to trust the WKU administration that they know what is best for the institution.

I agree with it, WKU is trying to better itself for other sports and having to upgrade football is the only way.

[MSUBear42]

I thought you guys were talking about dropping football entirely a bit ago. What gives:confused:

No, Joyce Mahoney (A bit** loaded with title 9 in her butt) talked about us dropping football. It will never happen.

[dbackjon]

I'm surprised 35% of their students are intelligent. Man, the other 65% must be looking forward to some great rivalries, like North Texas and Arkansas State.

Better goats in the SunBelt than the Gateway.....

[Cocky]

Good Luck

We have enough problems at JSU for me to pass judgement on anyone else's decisions. And don't be surprised if we are not making the same move in a few years.

[dbackjon]

Good Luck

We have enough problems at JSU for me to pass judgement on anyone else's decisions. And don't be surprised if we are not making the same move in a few years.


Because things are going OH so well for Troy?

[*****]

WKU’s Legendary basketball coach…..was also the coach of our FOOTBALL Team. IT is not just a basketball towel.I stand corrected and I'm waving my towel that galojay gave me. :nod:

[galojay]

I stand corrected and I'm waving my towel that galojay gave me. :nod:

You're making me proud Ralph!

[Black and Gold Express]

Welcome to the I-A gutter, have fun WKU

I wouldn't get too snotty about this. We might not be all that far behind them in the grand scheme of things.

[*****]

You're making me proud Ralph!WKU is proud of you! :bow:

xsmoochx xlolx

:thumbsup: :nod:

[texcap]

Illinois State recently unveiled it's plans for a renovation of Hancock Stadium to increase capacity from 15,000 to 24,000. As the largest or second largest 1-AA school by enrollment figures, I highly doubt we are doing this to stay in the GFC.

I am curious why you say that Illinois State is 1st or 2nd largest in IAA in enrollment. I am not trying to start an argument over who is bigger (it doesn't really matter anyway) but I was curoius and had a hard time finding any type of list. What I finally found was at the Department of Education and it was from 2003. (http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d05/tables/dt05_214.asp) I downloaded the information and looked at IAA schools and this is what I found. They only list those universities with over 15,000 students.

Does anyone have a better source, more detaled information, information on smaller schools or more updated information?

1. University of California, Davis 29,402
2. California State University, Sacramento 28,375
3. Texas State University, San Marcos 26,306
4. Portland State University 23,081
5. Northeastern University 22,944
6. SUNY at Stony Brook 22,344
7. Southern Illinois University, Carbondale 21,387
8. University of Delaware 21,121
9. Illinois State University 20,860
10. Cornell University-Endowed Colleges 19,620
11. Southwest Missouri State University 18,930
12. Northern Arizona University 18,820
13. Western Kentucky University 18,380
14. California Polytechnic State U., San Luis Obispo 18,303
15. Towson University 17,188
16. SUNY at Albany 16,998
17. James Madison University 16,203
18. Eastern Kentucky University 15,951
19. Georgia Southern University 15,704
20. University of New Hampshire, Main Campus 15,586

[AppGuy04]

I wouldn't get too snotty about this. We might not be all that far behind them in the grand scheme of things.

Yes, well, its well known that I am opposed to that

[ucdtim17]

I didn't know Northeastern was that big

[SactoHornetFan]

I didn't know Northeastern was that big

I didn't realize we are both 1-2 in I-AA enrollment.

[Cocky]

Because things are going OH so well for Troy?

That would be a negative. Troy isn't faring too well in I-A. Troy is pushing hard for JSU to join them in I-A. There is division in JSU's ranks right now and the outcome of the winner is yet to be determined. The winner will have a lot to say on what subdivision we play in.

[dbackjon]

That would be a negative. Troy isn't faring too well in I-A. Troy is pushing hard for JSU to join them in I-A. There is division in JSU's ranks right now and the outcome of the winner is yet to be determined. The winner will have a lot to say on what subdivision we play in.

That was a sarcastic "oh so well". You would think that Troy's struggles would give pause to anyone at JSU pushing to go I-A. Maybe JSU should just push back at Troy to give up the I-A pipe dream.

[henfan]

With the snow job Ransdell is perpetrating on the public, nobody should be surprised that a majority of the WKU students polled favored football reclassification. As an adjunct question, it would have been interesting to see how many of those polled could name any current Sun Belt participants (or Gateway teams, for that matter!)

As I've stated before, it's hard to blame WKU for moving all of its sports to the Sun Belt. If I was in Ransdell's shoes, I'd be pushing for reclassification too. It just makes sense to play all sports in a single conference.

If I were Ransdell though, I just wouldn't suggest the necessarily result of a I-A move is some tremendous financial boon for the school. It may be a good move in total in the long run for the entire AD, but it isn't likely to pay many dividends for football. It would be more honest for Ransdell to admit that his school may be taking a huge risk with its football program. Of course, I can understand why he wouldn't do that.

I don't have a pony in this race and can only wish WKU all the best. I just hope, for the purposes of this board, that some WKU folks turn down the "Later, suckers!" tone until after your team has spent a couple of years on the other side. Don't be strangers though.

[Killtoppers90]

With the snow job Ransdell is perpetrating on the public, nobody should be surprised that a majority of the WKU students polled favored football reclassification. As an adjunct question, it would have been interesting to see how many of those polled could name any current Sun Belt participants (or Gateway teams, for that matter!)

As I've stated before, it's hard to blame WKU for moving all of its sports to the Sun Belt. If I was in Ransdell's shoes, I'd be pushing for reclassification too. It just makes sense to play all sports in a single conference.

If I were Ransdell though, I just wouldn't suggest the necessarily result of a I-A move is some tremendous financial boon for the school. It may be a good move in total in the long run for the entire AD, but it isn't likely to pay many dividends for football. It would be more honest for Ransdell to admit that his school may be taking a huge risk with its football program. Of course, I can understand why he wouldn't do that.

I don't have a pony in this race and can only wish WKU all the best. I just hope, for the purposes of this board, that some WKU folks turn down the "Later, suckers!" tone until after your team has spent a couple of years on the other side. Don't be strangers though.
I am sure some WKU fans will turn against 1-AA but those are like the one who posted earlier that knew less than NOTHING about football as a whole. I love 1-AA ball but am hoping for good things on the move up as well. I will still post here and check in to see how some of my favorite teams are faring. And this will still be the CHAMPIONSHIP division until the whole BCS thing gets worked out!

[PantherRob82]

I think it's silly but will follow WKU a bit if they move up. Glad to get some new blood in the Gateway. WKU never seemed much like a rival or anything.

[fraydog]

I am confused!

I'm confused as well, as a perfectly new n00b, as to what team you root for.

Georgia Southern?

[youwouldno]

There is no chance WKU is going to have success in I-A football. I have nothing against WKU but the logic is just too plain.

U of Kentucky is horrible in football. Think about that, seriously. The main state university of KY is in the SEC but still isn't too good. Where exactly are the players going to come from for WKU? Is WKU going to overtake Kentucky in football? No, they're not. And Kentucky sucks.

The main argument though from many WKU fans appears to be that eventually they will move out of the Sun Belt into a better conference. Presumably by that they mean the MAC. But the MAC isn't a great overall football conference either. Little chance of any kind of serious bowl game.

On the other hand, WKU's situation is unique from most I-AA schools and resembles a sort of poor man's UConn. They are pretty good in basketball, their most important sport, and already play basketball in the Sunbelt. If they do aspire for the MAC, which I assume is their AD's thinking, then this does make some sense.

WKU should have little trouble competing with Sun Belt teams in football, and the I-A label might be valuable for enticing MAC officials. Any MAC invite would probably turn on basketball matters but already being I-A would probably make for an easier conference switch.

My complaint is two-fold: one, WKU fans acting like this is a move to improve in football when it is not and, two, fans from almost every I-AA school under the sun talking about going I-A. Few if any of those programs are as good as WKU in basketball, which is the linchpin of their athletic plans. It's one thing to aim to be a solid MAC school, which is what WKU wants.

Hoping to be a Sun Belt bottom feeder (i.e. like JSU would be) makes no sense. Likewise it makes no sense to dominate the Sun Belt in football (like App St or GSU would) because that won't get them anywhere.

[Toppermaniac]

Give me a break. What would WKU have to offer any of those conferences as a football school? About the only team that draws a decent crowd to WKU games is Eastern Kentucky and the move to I-A may kill that rivalry. I still think this is a tremendously dumb idea. We will see the Hilltoppers as bottom feeders in I-A, just like all of those other Sun Belt teams that have immigrated up from I-AA.

I guess we'll just see, won't we. One question. Why do you care? Jealous?

[AZGrizFan]

I'm confused as well, as a perfectly new n00b, as to what team you root for.
Georgia Southern?

xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

[Toppermaniac]

Is moving to the Sun Belt really a step in the right direction? CUSA is pretty watered down...but at least they have the possibility of squeezing a decent team or two out now and then. There will NEVER be a contender in the Sun Belt... If you lined up all the teams in the Sun Belt and the teams in the Gateway, I'd wager on Gateway teams winning a majority of the games...without the additional scholarships.:twocents: xcoffeex

You guys just don't get it. What's so hard about understanding this? If Conference USA came calling right now, we'd hop on the train. That's why we're moving to 1-A right now. Conferences like Conf. USA don't want to take a program just making the move to 1-A. We're moving to 1-A (specificially to the Sun Belt) right now in order to improve our chances of being picked up by a larger conference in a few years. It's much easier for a bigger conference to take on a school that already has 1-A football. It's a pretty simple concept.

[*****]

... WKU in basketball, which is the linchpin of their athletic plans...Exactly and it is what their basketball conference ambitions want. To each their own.

[Toppermaniac]

This being your only post on AGS, it indicates your incredible breadth of knowledge on the subject of I-AA football and how much better I-A is for teams not in the BCS. Congratulations, I hope you enjoy Sun Belt football, as it is truly the most exciting non-BCS conference in I-A football. Just ask Florida International.

Now that was a really stupid post. You're saying the number of posts an individual has on this board determine his/her knowledge of 1-AA football? Really, really stupid. There are many thousands of extremely involved 1-AA and 1-A football fans that do not post on internet message boards. Get real and stop trying to flatter yourself.

[Toppermaniac]

isn't that a basketball towel your avatar is waving? Maybe you are on the wrong board. :nod:


Once again, this statement proves that one should not open their mouths (type) if they has no idea what they're commenting on. No, it's not a "basketball" towel. It's a WKU symbol. For all sports, including football.

[Toppermaniac]

With the snow job Ransdell is perpetrating on the public, nobody should be surprised that a majority of the WKU students polled favored football reclassification. As an adjunct question, it would have been interesting to see how many of those polled could name any current Sun Belt participants (or Gateway teams, for that matter!)

As I've stated before, it's hard to blame WKU for moving all of its sports to the Sun Belt. If I was in Ransdell's shoes, I'd be pushing for reclassification too. It just makes sense to play all sports in a single conference.

If I were Ransdell though, I just wouldn't suggest the necessarily result of a I-A move is some tremendous financial boon for the school. It may be a good move in total in the long run for the entire AD, but it isn't likely to pay many dividends for football. It would be more honest for Ransdell to admit that his school may be taking a huge risk with its football program. Of course, I can understand why he wouldn't do that.

I don't have a pony in this race and can only wish WKU all the best. I just hope, for the purposes of this board, that some WKU folks turn down the "Later, suckers!" tone until after your team has spent a couple of years on the other side. Don't be strangers though.

I think you'd better go back and read the posts on here again. You'll see very, very few posts like that from WKU fans. However, there is an abundance of anti-WKU posts on these threads, regarding the move to 1-A. If you're gonna make statements like that, do your homework first because you're dead wrong.

[Toppermaniac]

I think it's silly but will follow WKU a bit if they move up. Glad to get some new blood in the Gateway. WKU never seemed much like a rival or anything.

You mean even during those games when we beat you? Even when we won the National Championship? That what you mean? Another stupid comment.

[youwouldno]

Apparently WKU fans are working overtime to make themselves unwelcome before they even leave.

If they're so happy and everything is so hunky dory for WKU, why are their fans coming on here and talking so much crap. What do they have to prove? Or maybe that's why so many are in favor of it. They want I-AA fans to be "jealous" of their move to the horrific, godawful SunBelch.

[Toppermaniac]

Apparently WKU fans are working overtime to make themselves unwelcome before they even leave.

If they're so happy and everything is so hunky dory for WKU, why are their fans coming on here and talking so much crap. What do they have to prove? Or maybe that's why so many are in favor of it. They want I-AA fans to be "jealous" of their move to the horrific, godawful SunBelch.

Once again, you just don't get it. Have you even read any of the posts on here? WKU fans aren't coming on here and saying anything like that. Personally, I'd rather stay 1-AA, but that isn't going to happen. It's fans rom other schools that are posting that they're looking forward to WKU failing at the 1-A level. What? Are we supposed to say, Gee thanks for your support? Once again, answer this. Why do you guys care? You're acting like it's a personal insult against you and 1-AA football in general for WKU to move to 1-A. Obviously, our pending move has hit a nerve with others on this board, not WKU fans. As I told another poster, go back and read before you make comments like that.

[Toppermaniac]

Give me a break. What would WKU have to offer any of those conferences as a football school? About the only team that draws a decent crowd to WKU games is Eastern Kentucky and the move to I-A may kill that rivalry. I still think this is a tremendously dumb idea. We will see the Hilltoppers as bottom feeders in I-A, just like all of those other Sun Belt teams that have immigrated up from I-AA.


We won't be moving to any conference as a "football school". We'll be moving as an overall competitive sports program. Basketball is and alway will be # 1 here, but all conferences with 1-A football want schools in their conferences that already have 1-A football. O.K., you think it's a dumb move. Why do you care, and why should we care what you think?

[Gambit]

We won't be moving to any conference as a "football school". We'll be moving as an overall competitive sports program. Basketball is and alway will be # 1 here, but all conferences with 1-A football want schools in their conferences that already have 1-A football. O.K., you think it's a dumb move. Why do you care, and why should we care what you think?

Basketball may be #1 for you, but not me. The only time I've stepped foot in Diddle was for the WKU Football Coaches Clinic every year, but I watch on TV and want them to win, I really just don't care and never will care about basketball. On a similar note, I can't stand the WKU "basketball only" fans it's real ignorant. xcoffeex

[Gambit]

And the dingle berry running his mouth about UK football and WKU has no future, no talent in the state blah blah blah...You failed to mention UL. Damn where is that starting running back for Seattle Seahawks from? Boone County, KY what? Don't talk about things you know nothing about, we do produce IA players...most of them go out of state, UL, and lastly UK recently.

[galojay]

U of Kentucky is horrible in football. Think about that, seriously. The main state university of KY is in the SEC but still isn't too good. Where exactly are the players going to come from for WKU? Is WKU going to overtake Kentucky in football? No, they're not. And Kentucky sucks.

The state of Kentucky does have a Top 10 I-A program in Louisville. Very rarely do you find a school that excels long-term in both basketball and football... most schools are one or the other; that is true of UK.



The main argument though from many WKU fans appears to be that eventually they will move out of the Sun Belt into a better conference. Presumably by that they mean the MAC. But the MAC isn't a great overall football conference either. Little chance of any kind of serious bowl game.


I think that is the plan of most schools in SBC. WKU I'd say is even more interested in C-USA then they are the MAC. I don't know if it would behoove WKU to go from SBC to MAC. It is a marginal upgrade and would cost lots of money in fees.

And what's to say WKU cannot succeed, or any school for that matter. Tell UCF or USF or even Louisville (they were a basketball only school that sucked in football). USF and UofL are now in BCS conferences and UCF went from Atlantic Sun to C-USA. It can happen if the commitment is there.

It will be rough from start, I admit. I love I-AA and would not be disappointed or upset if we stayed I-AA. I do see the potential in I-A, both athletically and institutionally.

[BearsCountry]

Isn't Louisville top 10 in the country? Aren't they from Kentucky?

[BearsCountry]

The state of Kentucky does have a Top 10 I-A program in Louisville. Very rarely do you find a school that excels long-term in both basketball and football... most schools are one or the other; that is true of UK.

I think that is the plan of most schools in SBC. WKU I'd say is even more interested in C-USA then they are the MAC. I don't know if it would behoove WKU to go from SBC to MAC. It is a marginal upgrade and would cost lots of money in fees.

And what's to say WKU cannot succeed, or any school for that matter. Tell UCF or USF or even Louisville (they were a basketball only school that sucked in football). USF and UofL are now in BCS conferences and UCF went from Atlantic Sun to C-USA. It can happen if the commitment is there.

It will be rough from start, I admit. I love I-AA and would not be disappointed or upset if we stayed I-AA. I do see the potential in I-A, both athletically and institutionally.

Excellent post. :hurray:

[Retro]

This is not a knock againest WKU fans as i expect you to support the direction of your school, but these are the issues that hit me...

1. With less than 10% of the students voting and only 65% of those voting for, how many of those really understand what a move to I-A requires and provides in return? I know there are several WKU's on here and a probably a couple of hundred students at best (not counting those directly related to football) that really understand the I-AA classification, the cost effectiveness and how hard it is to make revenue increase ahead of spending for the move, regardless of some one time donations that may arrive to do certain parts..

2. Even if WKU goes to the SBC and dominates, they must, i repeat must beat all their out of conference I-A opponents to even make a dent in the I-A landscape and keep the fans coming. I don't think there has ever been a SBC team in the top 25 in I-A since it's inception and if so it may have been a quick week or two early in the year before teams earned their ranking..

3. After the initial extra money is raised for stadium improvements, does WKU expect to have the annual revenue to maintain the extra scholarships for football and other sports along with the obvious increase of travel costs and expect the fan support to increase while playing unfamiliar compass points like UL-L, UNT, UL-M and FAU?

4. What happens if the basketball team suddenly has several bad seasons and can't draw their usual revenue or fan support? In I-AA it's not an issue, because the financial balance is much more workable for most schools...

5. I really think WKU would have had to already have a national power in basketball or maybe baseball for this to work easily.. UCONN has had a great basketball program which make money unlike many lower tier Div I basketball programs who have football programs to help make up the difference.. UCONN also had the benefit of jumping straight into a large proven bcs conference with all the extra revenue from being a member.

6. If i were WKU or any I-AA School seeing the so-called greener grass on the other side, i'd first make sure i've done everything in my yard to prepare for the jump and make it the best yard in my neighborhood and then after that take a stab at it when finances are way over on the plus side, 20,000 people is an expected reg attendance figure and the facilities are already the top of I-AA.

That's just my opionion, i could be wrong...

[galojay]

Apparently WKU fans are working overtime to make themselves unwelcome before they even leave.

If they're so happy and everything is so hunky dory for WKU, why are their fans coming on here and talking so much crap. What do they have to prove? Or maybe that's why so many are in favor of it. They want I-AA fans to be "jealous" of their move to the horrific, godawful SunBelch.

I don't necessarly disagree, SOME may feel that way.

I am posting merely to keep the facts straight. Some need to calm it down on here.

[galojay]

On a similar note, I can't stand the WKU "basketball only" fans it's real ignorant. xcoffeex

Seems like you are a "football only" fan, is that real ignorant too?

I love both and have season tickets to both... no preference.

[Gambit]

Seems like you are a "football only" fan, is that real ignorant too?

I love both and have season tickets to both... no preference.

Since you conveniently edited my post you'll see that I said I watch the games on TV when I can and I hope they win.

[galojay]

1. With less than 10% of the students voting and only 65% of those voting for, how many of those really understand what a move to I-A requires and provides in return? I know there are several WKU's on here and a probably a couple of hundred students at best (not counting those directly related to football) that really understand the I-AA classification, the cost effectiveness and how hard it is to make revenue increase ahead of spending for the move, regardless of some one time donations that may arrive to do certain parts..
No disagreement. I'd say your statement is true of 99% of all I-AA schools.


2. Even if WKU goes to the SBC and dominates, they must, i repeat must beat all their out of conference I-A opponents to even make a dent in the I-A landscape and keep the fans coming. I don't think there has ever been a SBC team in the top 25 in I-A since it's inception and if so it may have been a quick week or two early in the year before teams earned their ranking..
I agree, to an extent. Our fans come without any "big names" coming to Smith Stadium now. If we do well in the SBC and have teams like Indiana (contract on our desk), Navy, South Florida, Vandy, etc coming to town, their will be more excitement. You're right no SBC team in top 25 since I-A, but that's only been 6 years.



3. After the initial extra money is raised for stadium improvements, does WKU expect to have the annual revenue to maintain the extra scholarships for football and other sports along with the obvious increase of travel costs and expect the fan support to increase while playing unfamiliar compass points like UL-L, UNT, UL-M and FAU?
Yes, a $70 student fee (agree or disagree) will fund I-A. I have seen the cash flow projections for the next 10 years. If WKU could not properly fund I-A (See ULM whose budget is less than WKU's current I-AA budget), we wouldn't make the move.



4. What happens if the basketball team suddenly has several bad seasons and can't draw their usual revenue or fan support? In I-AA it's not an issue, because the financial balance is much more workable for most schools...

Basketball does not fund football. See #3.



6. If i were WKU or any I-AA School seeing the so-called greener grass on the other side, i'd first make sure i've done everything in my yard to prepare for the jump and make it the best yard in my neighborhood and then after that take a stab at it when finances are way over on the plus side, 20,000 people is an expected reg attendance figure and the facilities are already the top of I-AA.

We are taking care of the neighborhood. A $10 million endowment is being created to offset cost of I-A, $37.5 million upgrade/expansion to our football stadium will make it THE nicest in I-AA and one of the nicest in the SBC. Finances will never be way over on the plus side in I-AA... that rarely happens, with few exceptions.



That's just my opionion, i could be wrong...

Fair opinions, and valid points.

[galojay]

Since you conveniently edited my post you'll see that I said I watch the games on TV when I can and I hope they win.

As do most "Basketball only" fans, just ask them.

[*****]

As do most "Basketball only" fans, just ask them.
baskeetboool is played with that orange, round ball huh? Isn't baskeetboool talk supposed to be on a different board?

[Cocky]

That was a sarcastic "oh so well". You would think that Troy's struggles would give pause to anyone at JSU pushing to go I-A. Maybe JSU should just push back at Troy to give up the I-A pipe dream.

Troy won't go back to I-AA.

Troy has the same problem JSU would have $$$. JSU has one side saying (with Troy's help) that I-A loses less money than I-AA. Troy's enrollment is up while JSU's is flat. Our on campus enrollment is twice Troy's, but Troy gets the favorable pub from the TV and radio mouths.

I have don't have much influence so I'm just along for the ride either I-AA or I-A or either subdivision. I'm a fan of JSU not of I-AA or I-A.

[blur2005]

Now that was a really stupid post. You're saying the number of posts an individual has on this board determine his/her knowledge of 1-AA football? Really, really stupid. There are many thousands of extremely involved 1-AA and 1-A football fans that do not post on internet message boards. Get real and stop trying to flatter yourself.
No, his post showed he doesn't know what he's talking about. Saying you're moving up "like the Jeffersons" means he must know nothing about Sun Belt football. You C-USA dreamers do realize that the C-USA already has 12 teams, is unlikely to expand or lose any of those teams in the near (read: next decade) future. We've already seen the last conference shift for awhile in I-A, and you missed the boat. Have fun in the Sun Belt.

[galojay]

No, his post showed he doesn't know what he's talking about. Saying you're moving up "like the Jeffersons" means he must know nothing about the Sun Belt. You C-USA dreamers do realize that the C-USA already has 12 teams, is unlikely to expand or lose any of those teams in the near (read: next decade) future. We've already seen the last conference shift for awhile in I-A, and you missed the boat. Have fun in the Sun Belt.

I disagree totally. No way does the Big East remain at 16 teams with only 8 playing football. Their will be another shuffle within the next 5-7 years.

[Appstate29]

I would be a propenant of ASU moving up, but only in the right situation. I would never vote to move up to I-A in the SBC. We have no rivalries in the SBC, and the teams are just not that good. I wouldn't mind seeing a new conference rise up with several East/Southeast top I-AA teams and some southeast I-A teams like ECU and Marshall, but I don't think it will ever happen.

Also out of all the teams talking about jumping up to I-A, are any of you making attendence requirements?? I know the NCAA helps out by having those games at big stadiums that are filled iwth "away" fans, but I think you should have at least 15k before you even think about moving up.

[Mr. C]

We won't be moving to any conference as a "football school". We'll be moving as an overall competitive sports program. Basketball is and alway will be # 1 here, but all conferences with 1-A football want schools in their conferences that already have 1-A football. O.K., you think it's a dumb move. Why do you care, and why should we care what you think?
Maybe, just maybe, some people are familiar with how much other schools have struggled and see the potholes that lie ahead for your program. I don't really care whether you respect my opinion, or not. But I do have 30 years of experience around college athletics and I have been close enough to see how college athletic programs from the largest to the smallest operate in a number of sports, so maybe I do know something. I have been through your facilities and I have attended WKU games, so I have some insight to your program, too. I never said you were making the move as a football decision. It is clear that basketball wags the dog in Bowling Green. But the fact is that this is not a positive move for the football program. The football program is being sacrificed to a large degree. I also don't see any other conference knocking down your doors to get you to move. Why would the MAC or C-USA want your program. What do you have to offer. I am simply being a voice of reason, pointing out that the move from I-AA to I-A has been nothing short of disasterous for almost every school that has taken that plunge.

[Mr. C]

I guess we'll just see, won't we. One question. Why do you care? Jealous?
Jealous of what? My alma mater is already very successful at the I-A level. My interest in I-AA has to do with the fact that I live and work in a town that has a national championship-caliber I-AA program. It bothers me to see one of the top I-AA football programs making the same mistake as so many others have. I will miss having the Hilltoppers in I-AA, just like I miss Marshall and Troy State, who were also great I-AA programs.

[Keeper]

How can you begrudge an academic institution from having its
athletic programs as perceived as being as "big-time" as possible.
One can debate as to the merits of moving up, as to realistic goals
and success. But the perception is the reality, and visibility is
greater in I-A, like it or not. The Sun Belt lacks football glamor,
but is "perceived" as a bigtime member simply because it is in I-A.
The national media is not at fault for this. It goes where the interest
is. If an institution has the planning and the means to compete at
the highest level possible, to the delight of its students, alumni and
fans, why not? If it helps them to feel more important and to enjoy
their athletics why rain on their parade? They may regret it
eventually, but circumstances and times change. There will be
more studies and more moves, maybe one for your school that
disappoints. What are your dreams and goals, and does anyone
dare to broadcast your folly?

[youwouldno]

Sure Louisville is good. That's not the point. Maybe that helps explain why UK stinks, but it has no bearing on WKU's place in the pecking order.

Of course, they don't really need to get any better to compete in the SBC. But C-USA would be an entirely different matter, even though that conferences is much weaker than it was a few years ago.

[galojay]

I would be a propenant of ASU moving up, but only in the right situation. I would never vote to move up to I-A in the SBC. We have no rivalries in the SBC, and the teams are just not that good. I wouldn't mind seeing a new conference rise up with several East/Southeast top I-AA teams and some southeast I-A teams like ECU and Marshall, but I don't think it will ever happen.


What you will find is, if you do want to move up, SBC is about your only option. So do you never move up? Or do you do the SBC for a while and hope something else comes along or reallignments allow the SBC to strengthen more?

[galojay]

The football program is being sacrificed to a large degree. I also don't see any other conference knocking down your doors to get you to move. Why would the MAC or C-USA want your program. What do you have to offer. I am simply being a voice of reason, pointing out that the move from I-AA to I-A has been nothing short of disasterous for almost every school that has taken that plunge.

I disagree. Football can do well in the SBC, as could most Gateway programs. Funny thing is, you ask most football players, would you prefer to play for the I-AA National Championship or a Bowl Game (ANY bowl game), and they prefer the Bowl Game. I really don't see how the football team is being sacrificed. Every player I've spoken with, wants this.

What does WKU have to offer the MAC or C-USA? I thought you knew something about WKU. WKU offers an incredible sports program. WKU Has won the Vic Bubas All-Sports Trophey for the SBC three times in the last five years and was runner up the other two years. We bring a consistantly winning basketball team with strong tradition. If C-USA or MAC lose some teams when the Big East splits (and it will), they will be looking at the SBC for teams... I feel WKU will be a logical choice. We have the best all-around sports program and will have the highest athletic budget in the conference. We have one of the top three highest budgets now, before injecting another $3.5 million for I-A.

[galojay]

Sure Louisville is good. That's not the point. Maybe that helps explain why UK stinks, but it has no bearing on WKU's place in the pecking order.

Of course, they don't really need to get any better to compete in the SBC. But C-USA would be an entirely different matter, even though that conferences is much weaker than it was a few years ago.

The point was trying to be made that KY couldn't support I-A because UK sucked. I think the state of Kentucky can support three I-A schools. Most every other state in the Southeast has at least three. C-USA isn't what it used to be. Actually, SBC vs C-USA this year..... 3-3.

[Mr. C]

How can you begrudge an academic institution from having its
athletic programs as perceived as being as "big-time" as possible.
One can debate as to the merits of moving up, as to realistic goals
and success. But the perception is the reality, and visibility is
greater in I-A, like it or not. The Sun Belt lacks football glamor,
but is "perceived" as a bigtime member simply because it is in I-A.
The national media is not at fault for this. It goes where the interest
is. If an institution has the planning and the means to compete at
the highest level possible, to the delight of its students, alumni and
fans, why not? If it helps them to feel more important and to enjoy
their athletics why rain on their parade? They may regret it
eventually, but circumstances and times change. There will be
more studies and more moves, maybe one for your school that
disappoints. What are your dreams and goals, and does anyone
dare to broadcast your folly?
There is absolutely nothing "big-time" about Sun Belt football. It is a conference made up of teams that have made the mistake of leaving I-AA. Who in that conference has shown any consistency as a football program? Who in the Sun Belt has been earning national rankings, or has gone out and beaten any truly big-time schools? Playing I-A football will do nothing to help WKU basketball, which is the sport that truly matters at WKU. At the I-AA level, WKU can field a program that is in the national championship picture almost every year. At the I-A level, they might earn a berth in a mediocre bowl game once every few years. No one is saying WKU can't make the move, just pointing out that there is little reason to think that the Hiltoppers will be successful in football at the next level.

[galojay]

There is absolutely nothing "big-time" about Sun Belt football. It is a conference made up of teams that have made the mistake of leaving I-AA. Who in that conference has shown any consistency as a football program? Who in the Sun Belt has been earning national rankings, or has gone out and beaten any truly big-time schools? Playing I-A football will do nothing to help WKU basketball, which is the sport that truly matters at WKU. At the I-AA level, WKU can field a program that is in the national championship picture almost every year. At the I-A level, they might earn a berth in a mediocre bowl game once every few years. No one is saying WKU can't make the move, just pointing out that there is little reason to think that the Hiltoppers will be successful in football at the next level.

No I-AA school is going to jump straight into the C-USA or like conference. You can't get from Point A to Point C without going through Point B. If any I-AA is sitting waiting for C-USA to call, they will never get there. You have go to move up and prove yourself as a viable I-A school.

And yes, the SBC is 11 of 11 in I-A. But I dare say more average Joe couch football watchers can name who won the New Orleans Bowl before they could name who won the I-AA National Championship. VERY sad, but true none the less. When WKU won the I-AA Championship in 2002, most people thought it was Division II, including the regional media. The NCAA and media has done a good job downplaying I-AA football.

[Psychored]

isn't that a basketball towel your avatar is waving? Maybe you are on the wrong board. :nod:

You're STILL confused there ralphie! The Red Towel is a symbol of the Western Spirit. It is used at all athletic functions, not just hoops. Please file that away for future use!

[Killtoppers90]

There is absolutely nothing "big-time" about Sun Belt football. It is a conference made up of teams that have made the mistake of leaving I-AA. Who in that conference has shown any consistency as a football program? Who in the Sun Belt has been earning national rankings, or has gone out and beaten any truly big-time schools? Playing I-A football will do nothing to help WKU basketball, which is the sport that truly matters at WKU. At the I-AA level, WKU can field a program that is in the national championship picture almost every year. At the I-A level, they might earn a berth in a mediocre bowl game once every few years. No one is saying WKU can't make the move, just pointing out that there is little reason to think that the Hiltoppers will be successful in football at the next level.
Mr. C I think it has to do with exposure more than anything else. Moving up to a bad 1-A conference (and getting a bowl game eventally) will garner WKU more national exposure to the country than winning 3 1-AA National Championships. Most normal fans view anything other than 1-A football as a non-factor. It is a fact - most fans have not even heard of WKU, Elon, Southern Ill or whom ever unless they just happen to live in the area where that school is. But one thing you MUST remember about the SBC, it is a new (read YOUNG) conference. It will take some tome for it to gain better competition, recruits and respect but the MAC has done it, C-USA has done it. So why can't the SBC? And wheter or not it is a good or sucessful move - we will all have to wait and see.

[GannonFan]

Mr. C I think it has to do with exposure more than anything else. Moving up to a bad 1-A conference (and getting a bowl game eventally) will garner WKU more national exposure to the country than winning 3 1-AA National Championships.

And therein lies my ultimate question - why do you care so much about the national exposure angle that you would put your athletic department in the position to lose a lot more money than they do now to play in easily the worst football conference in all of I-A? How is your enjoyment of watching WKU football increased because Joe Schmo in East Gipip may have a slightly increased chance (let's face it, most average college football fans would be lucky to name even one team in the Sun Belt, let alone half of them) of knowing about your football team? Are you that much more happy for your football team because you'll be able to more regularly find a printed betting line on the game now that they could go to I-A? When I go to a football game I never honestly think about what people not at the game think about the team I root for - who cares really? It doesn't make my enjoyment of the game any more or less enjoyable. Like I said, it's always been a wonderment to me why some people do care what people they've never met or will ever meet think about their football team, assuming they think of it at all.

[texcap]

There is absolutely nothing "big-time" about Sun Belt football. It is a conference made up of teams that have made the mistake of leaving I-AA. Who in that conference has shown any consistency as a football program? Who in the Sun Belt has been earning national rankings, or has gone out and beaten any truly big-time schools?

On another board we had a guy bragging about what an incredible feat that UNT had accomplished by winning 4 Sun Belt Conference titles in a row, and more amazingly 27 conference games in a row!

My response was that what was more incredible to me is that during that AMAZING streak of 27-0 against the Sun Belt UNT went 3-20 vs. all other teams not in the sunbelt (including I-AA teams). What is more incredible about the UNT streak is not that they won those games but how weak the Sun Belt conference was. 27-0 in conference and 3-20 out of conference tells the whole story about how INCREDIBLE the streaks, and the Sun Belt Conference really are.

[PantherRob82]

You mean even during those games when we beat you? Even when we won the National Championship? That what you mean? Another stupid comment.

Regardless if you beat us or won a NC, you never felt like a rival to me.

Why don't you quit your crying and join the Sun Belt board. :bawling:

[henfan]

Moving up to a bad 1-A conference (and getting a bowl game eventally) will garner WKU more national exposure to the country than winning 3 1-AA National Championships.

Really?! You might want to check the recent TV ratings for the NO & SV Bowls vs. the I-AA playoffs & championship games. Check the total revenues obtained from each for SBC participants. Not that dramatically different in the least. The national exposure and financial windfalls that some WKU fans seem to surmise are going to result with a football move to the SBC are figments of active imaginations.

That anyone would classify a move to the SBC as "a move up" shows a basic lack of understanding of the financial and competitive factors at play across D-I. It is what it is, but it's not a move up. Let's just be honest and say that WKU is relocating FB to the SBC for one reason, primarily: to use the conference as a springboard to better all sport affiliations down the line (hopefully). In any case, the SBC is not an ultimate destination. For the time being, it's still better than playing football in one conference and Olympic sports somewhere else.

[youwouldno]

I think another point worth making is about college athletics in general. Is the point of college sports to garner as much "respect" as possible, or is it something else? Why are football players at college to begin with? Very few ever make the NFL.

And even assuming the goal is to be as "big time" as possible, which to me reeks of an inferiority complex, going SBC or even C-USA won't really help that much. Fans of schools like Florida and Texas and the like don't even respect Louisville.

I was with a huge group of Florida fans watching a game of theirs a few weeks ago when FSU only beat Troy 24-17. They just couldn't stop laughing about it and were all calling their FSU friends. Only the hardcore fans even knew whether Troy was I-A or I-AA.

WKU fans just shouldn't expect to be treated like one of the "big boys." They never will be, even if they're pretty good.

[BearsCountry]

WKU fans just shouldn't expect to be treated like one of the "big boys." They never will be, even if they're pretty good.

I doubt it look at Boise State and Marshall.

[UCABEARS75]

And therein lies my ultimate question - why do you care so much about the national exposure angle that you would put your athletic department in the position to lose a lot more money than they do now to play in easily the worst football conference in all of I-A? How is your enjoyment of watching WKU football increased because Joe Schmo in East Gipip may have a slightly increased chance (let's face it, most average college football fans would be lucky to name even one team in the Sun Belt, let alone half of them) of knowing about your football team? Are you that much more happy for your football team because you'll be able to more regularly find a printed betting line on the game now that they could go to I-A? When I go to a football game I never honestly think about what people not at the game think about the team I root for - who cares really? It doesn't make my enjoyment of the game any more or less enjoyable. Like I said, it's always been a wonderment to me why some people do care what people they've never met or will ever meet think about their football team, assuming they think of it at all.

Extremely well said, at least I think so because this is how I feel.

I root for my team because it is my team not because someone, somewhere might hear about us.

And rooting for my team means hoping we win, and win some more.

[AmsterBison]

Sorry if I'm repeating a point (12 pages is a lot to read through) but shouldn't the topic heading be 6% of WKU students vote to move to I-A? I mean, 65% of 9% = 6%, more or less.

I understood that the revenue jump teams used to get by going DI-A primarily came from being able to schedule more guarantee games with bigger DI-A schools. Since DI has made those easy to get for DI-AA teams, I'm not seeing how where the all the extra revenue is supposed to come from.

That said, if WKU goes DI-A, I wish them luck. Besides, it removes the longest trip if NDSU accepts an invitation to the Gateway :)

[dbackjon]

Honest Question for Hilltopper fans:

If you were given the choice of:

A) An invite to the Missouri Valley Conference, with the understanding you stayed I-AA Gateway

or

B) Going to I-A Sunbelt


Which would you choose??

[Killtoppers90]

WKU fans just shouldn't expect to be treated like one of the "big boys." They never will be, even if they're pretty good.

No one is saying that we are expecting to be one of the big boys. But never say never.

Honest Question for Hilltopper fans:

If you were given the choice of:

A) An invite to the Missouri Valley Conference, with the understanding you stayed I-AA Gateway

or

B) Going to I-A Sunbelt


Which would you choose??
Belt!

[dbackjon]

No one is saying that we are expecting to be one of the big boys. But never say never.

Belt!


So you would turn down a chance to join one of the best basketball leagues in the country??

[grayghost06]

First, let me clear a few things up. We are probably going to go I-A in the Sun Belt if our Board of Regents approves the decision on November 2. I can see the move being a stepping stone in order to get into another conference. We already have a home-and-home contract with Indiana, and are negotiating with Navy and South Florida for home and homes. For people wondering, we are also going to continue the EKU series for at least the next 10 years. We will be playing at EKU every other year no matter if we move or not. When we do move to the Sun Belt, we will already have a rivalry with Middle Tennessee. It is only a 2 hours away and the two schools have a lot of history. Mostly WKU dominated. After a few years and a lot more conference shuffling, don't be surprised to see both MTSU and Western to move to Conference USA. Unlike MTSU, we won't be playing a ton of money games. According to our president, we will only play 1 money game a year. If the vote is approved, we will become a transitional I-a member for the next two years, meaning we can't play in a bowl game or the i-aa playoffs. Then, in 2009, we will be in the Sun Belt conference. Also, we are adding a second side to the stadium adding a few thousand seats to the stadium making the capacity around 20,000. The NCAA requires the attendance for its 1-a members to be 15,000 avg. WKU averaged about 13,000 last year. I can't wait until we move on up, just like the Jeffersons....While I think it's great you're giving IA a go, if you're gonna talk the talk...you gotta walk the walk. I can't think of any other IA football program that plays a home and home with a IAA opponent. Yes, continue the series till it becomes non-competitive. But you've got to play the games at your place.

[rufus]

Maybe the Sun Belt isn't the greatest conference in the world, but I just don't see it being that different from the Gateway. As far as post-season opportunities go, WKU will basically be trading an absurd system that may give San Diego a playoff bid for an absurd system that may not give an undefeated Boise State a BCS bowl bid. Honestly, I don't know which scenario is more ridiculous.

I know most people on this board love I-AA football, but I believe that a school has to act in what it perceives to be its own best interests. If WKU's admin, board, and students would rather play in I-A, then I-A is probably the right place for them. Maybe they all have dreams of becoming a big time BCS school some day down the road. If that's the case, then they have a very remote chance of seeing that happen in I-A (maybe one in a thousand odds, but still a chance). It will never happen in I-AA.

The I-A route may not be right for everyone, and maybe not even right for WKU, but we should respect a school's right to determine its own destiny.

[arkstfan]

I work quite closely with folks inside the Sun Belt Conference and know a great deal of the inner workings around the league.

#1. If the Missouri Valley picked up the phone today and called WKU extending full membership, there would be no move to I-A. Simple as that. Western is a basketball school foremost and they are quite simply positioning themself to be in the best possible position for a better basketball conference come realignment time.

#2. If you look at the history of UK football vs. Louisville one thing emerges quickly. UK has historically permitted failing football coaches more time to fail than UL has. My experience in college athletics has been that the type of program you get depends on what kind of program the administration expects, demands, and will fund. Having a natural recruiting base is nice but not essential to success. Go count the number of Idaho kids on the Boise State roster. The University of Kentucky administration has consistently accepted and tolerated bad football and got what they accepted and tolerated.

#3. Someone said the Belt is teams that should have stayed in I-AA. Well under the I-A scheduling rules of today, most of them likely would have stayed but I know that in December of 1989 the administration at Arkansas State was trying to deal with the new world where Memphis and Ole Miss would no longer play them, crunched the numbers and concluded that under the existing NCAA rules and state finance laws that they would either have to do a UT-Martin / Prarie View and eliminate the bulk of football scholarships to remain I-AA, drop football completely, or go chase game guarantees in I-A. It was a horrific decision because it nearly served the purpose of dropping football and twice since that point the school came very close to doing so until finally getting things back into order. The biggest financial problem at Arkansas State now is basketball because the administration used mediocre results as justification to extend the contract of an unpopular coach. For the first time in 15 years lower level seats are available to the public for purchase.

#4. Yeah the Belt ain't great I-A football but in its sixth year, it is trending the right direction. The lowest rated team right now has a ranking that would have placed it in the middle of the conference in 2001. Of the five original schools in the league that still remain, only one has the same coach. Two coaches from 2001 didn't make it back to coach in 2002 and a third was sent packing during the 2002 season. You have to expect North Texas to lose patience some time this season yet the UNT squad that is so frustrating their fans this year would only be about three point dogs to the 2001 squad that took a share of the league title and started their run of championships. What it took to be dominate in the league in 2001 would be worth about 4th place today.

[Killtoppers90]

So you would turn down a chance to join one of the best basketball leagues in the country??
What have you won? I don't remeber ANY MVC team hoisting the Final Four trophy either.

[arkstfan]

I know most people on this board love I-AA football, but I believe that a school has to act in what it perceives to be its own best interests. If WKU's admin, board, and students would rather play in I-A, then I-A is probably the right place for them. Maybe they all have dreams of becoming a big time BCS school some day down the road. If that's the case, then they have a very remote chance of seeing that happen in I-A (maybe one in a thousand odds, but still a chance). It will never happen in I-AA.

The I-A route may not be right for everyone, and maybe not even right for WKU, but we should respect a school's right to determine its own destiny.

The NCAA Philosophy Statement says I-A and I-AA membership are institutional decisions. Sadly for many years the NCAA in its rulemaking process created a lot of incentive for institutions to choose I-A membership.

It was nearly criminal how I-AA got screwed. When the subdivision was formed a I-A institution if it wanted to, could schedule up to four I-AA opponents in a season. It might preclude a national ranking, it might make it harder to sell tickets if the fans didn't like that, it might mean a bowl committee would pass them for someone with a nicer resume (though we know ticket sales have always been the most important qualification).

For basically the first decade of I-AA's existence member institutions were bound together by a committment to high scholarship football at a lower cost than offered by I-A. During that time period the number of post-season opportunities in Division I and later I-A were seriously limited providing few chances for the post-season experience. I-AA opened more doors to post-season for the Division I institutions that were willing to join I-AA. Then the NCAA opened the doors to anyone able to post a $1.5 million letter of credit to host a bowl game now there are more post-season opportunities for the 119 I-A institutions than existed for all of I-A and I-AA combined 20 years ago.

While the BS/CS thing is mere window dressing (that might actually have some benefit in perception) but more importantly changes have been made that will head off schools feeling the need to go to I-A/BS just to chase dollars. Finally the subdivision decision can be based on something more than greater access to game guarantees.

[dbackjon]

What have you won? I don't remeber ANY MVC team hoisting the Final Four trophy either.

You think the SunBelt/MAC are going to have a shot? xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

[youwouldno]

I doubt it look at Boise State and Marshall.

LoL. BCS conference fans look at Marshall like a I-AA school, and Boise isn't thought of very highly either even with their ranking.

[dbackjon]

LoL. BCS conference fans look at Marshall like a I-AA school, and Boise isn't thought of very highly either even with their ranking.

And Boise's team had/has FAR more support than WKU. Attendence well above 25,000/game, good sized metro area that is 100% behind BSU.

Heck, if you asked 100 WKU students who their favorite college basketball team was, more than have would say UK.

[nmatsen]

Good luck WKU! I'm sure the Bears will be there in a few.

Funny; you guys should try winning a game or two this year first.

[douglasdmb]

Funny; you guys should try winning a game or two this year first.

I agree.

I will say this about the Sun Belt. It speaks volumes when the most attention anyone from that league has ever gotten since joining came from a brawl.

:twocents:

[wkukid]

You think the SunBelt/MAC are going to have a shot? xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

Western Kentucky mens went to the final four in 1971. Also went to the sweet sixteen in 1992. It's one of the 10 most winning programs of all time.

Western Kentucky womens is always very very good. 3 final fours and national runner-ups in 1992.

[SO ILLmatic]

What have you won? I don't remeber ANY MVC team hoisting the Final Four trophy either.

There actually has been a Valley team that has been in the Final Four. Larry Bird lead the Sycamores all the way to the national championship game against Magic Johnson & the Mich St Spartans.

I was just pointing that out because it was a pretty significant game (the start of Bird vs Magic) and just one more example of the rich history behind the Valley.

[PantherRob82]

There actually has been a Valley team that has been in the Final Four. Larry Bird lead the Sycamores all the way to the national championship game against Magic Johnson & the Mich St Spartans.

I was just pointing that out because it was a pretty significant game (the start of Bird vs Magic) and just one more example of the rich history behind the Valley.

Not to mention the recent success of Creighton, SIU, and WSU. Sweet 16 appearances almost every year.

How's the Sun Belt been in the tourney?

[mossjasonm]

Not to mention the recent success of Creighton, SIU, and WSU. Sweet 16 appearances almost every year.

How's the Sun Belt been in the tourney?


i don't think a SBC school has been successfull in the tourney. the best team to do so this year would be UALR other than that the teams are a joke. I used to go to a SBC school and watching their football and basketball games would make anyone cringe

[wkukid]

i don't think a SBC school has been successfull in the tourney. the best team to do so this year would be UALR other than that the teams are a joke. I used to go to a SBC school and watching their football and basketball games would make anyone cringe

There's no doubt in my mind that the MVC is better than the SBC. But if you think UALR is the best bball school in the SBC then you must be drunk. This year it's three east teams: WKU, MTSU and USA. Make anyone cringe? I'm going to assume that you didn't go to the previously mentioned schools where basketball is always good. Besides we'll see SIU this year in Diddle and SIU will step into a building with a whole hell of a lot more tradition than SIU could ever dream of.

[ravens]

Welcome to the I-A gutter, have fun WKU


Wish them well and let them go. That is life, always changing.
Marshall made the step, one year soon so will Appy.....and they will always be replaced by schools eager to move up to Division I football.:)

[douglasdmb]

Besides we'll see SIU this year in Diddle and SIU will step into a building with a whole hell of a lot more tradition than SIU could ever dream of.

Wow...xsmileyclapx

[Retro]

I disagree. Football can do well in the SBC, as could most Gateway programs. Funny thing is, you ask most football players, would you prefer to play for the I-AA National Championship or a Bowl Game (ANY bowl game), and they prefer the Bowl Game. I really don't see how the football team is being sacrificed. Every player I've spoken with, wants this.

What does WKU have to offer the MAC or C-USA? I thought you knew something about WKU. WKU offers an incredible sports program. WKU Has won the Vic Bubas All-Sports Trophey for the SBC three times in the last five years and was runner up the other two years. We bring a consistantly winning basketball team with strong tradition. If C-USA or MAC lose some teams when the Big East splits (and it will), they will be looking at the SBC for teams... I feel WKU will be a logical choice. We have the best all-around sports program and will have the highest athletic budget in the conference. We have one of the top three highest budgets now, before injecting another $3.5 million for I-A.

OK, unless it's a big time BCS bowl, then it's a no brainer! Players want to play for championships not meaningless lower tier bowls.. Players want that championship ring just like the conference ring... Players don't get any of the bowl money nor do they see the benefit of it...
If you go out and you do a poll of of all division I players and just ask them a general question of the following: Whether I-A or I-AA, would you rather play in a bowl game or for the national championship, which would you choose? I'd bet 95% say national championship.

If you have a recruit, and he is deciding between UL-L or Mcneese State and has no alligence to either and all facilities and such are equal, which do you think he chooses? Same thing with Idaho or Montana?, Georgia Southern or Middle Tennessee state>....
If a player knows he has a chance each year to win a championship and be on a nationally winning program, which is he likely to do?

[Cocky]

i don't think a SBC school has been successfull in the tourney. the best team to do so this year would be UALR other than that the teams are a joke. I used to go to a SBC school and watching their football and basketball games would make anyone cringe

UAB made it to the final 8 while in the SBC. Most of you are probably too young to remember.

[*****]

... you ask most football players, would you prefer to play for the I-AA National Championship or a Bowl Game (ANY bowl game), and they prefer the Bowl Game...that has definetly not been my experience asking many players and coaches... almost all of them want to win a championship more.

[galojay]

[B]

If you go out and you do a poll of of all division I players and just ask them a general question of the following: Whether I-A or I-AA, would you rather play in a bowl game or for the national championship, which would you choose? I'd bet 95% say national championship.


several wku players were asked, they preferred a bowl game.

[BearsCountry]

Ask any high school kid if they want to go to I-A school or a I-AA school and I bet 99% of them would say I-A. (For football purposes)

[arkstfan]

[B]

OK, unless it's a big time BCS bowl, then it's a no brainer! Players want to play for championships not meaningless lower tier bowls.. Players want that championship ring just like the conference ring... Players don't get any of the bowl money nor do they see the benefit of it...
If you go out and you do a poll of of all division I players and just ask them a general question of the following: Whether I-A or I-AA, would you rather play in a bowl game or for the national championship, which would you choose? I'd bet 95% say national championship.


I don't think the recruiting results bear that out.

Most of the bowls treat the players very well.

In the playoffs you arrive on Friday for a Saturday game, have a team meal, maybe catch a movie, go to the hotel, get up the next morning eat, head to the stadium, play the game and go home.

With even a lower tier bowl like the New Orleans you spend several days. Arkansas State played in the New Orleans Bowl on a Tuesday. They left for Lafayette on Friday. A local welcoming committee met them when they got to town and they had activities on Friday, Saturday, Sunday and Monday.

Last year Arkansas State's players received a championship ring, a New Orleans Bowl watch, and a portable DVD player.

[PantherRob82]

There's no doubt in my mind that the MVC is better than the SBC. But if you think UALR is the best bball school in the SBC then you must be drunk. This year it's three east teams: WKU, MTSU and USA. Make anyone cringe? I'm going to assume that you didn't go to the previously mentioned schools where basketball is always good. Besides we'll see SIU this year in Diddle and SIU will step into a building with a whole hell of a lot more tradition than SIU could ever dream of.

2 Things:

#1- Tradition doesn't win games.

#2- The best team in the SBC doesn't always make the tourney if they don't win the conf tourney.

[Toppermaniac]

baskeetboool is played with that orange, round ball huh? Isn't baskeetboool talk supposed to be on a different board?

Well Ralphie, it wasn't WKU posters that brought up basketball. We just responded to the posts by others.

[Toppermaniac]

Maybe, just maybe, some people are familiar with how much other schools have struggled and see the potholes that lie ahead for your program. I don't really care whether you respect my opinion, or not. But I do have 30 years of experience around college athletics and I have been close enough to see how college athletic programs from the largest to the smallest operate in a number of sports, so maybe I do know something. I have been through your facilities and I have attended WKU games, so I have some insight to your program, too. I never said you were making the move as a football decision. It is clear that basketball wags the dog in Bowling Green. But the fact is that this is not a positive move for the football program. The football program is being sacrificed to a large degree. I also don't see any other conference knocking down your doors to get you to move. Why would the MAC or C-USA want your program. What do you have to offer. I am simply being a voice of reason, pointing out that the move from I-AA to I-A has been nothing short of disasterous for almost every school that has taken that plunge.


I don't think anyone on here is guaranteeing the move will be 100% successful without encountering potholes. However, don't you think that people associated with WKU (that know much more about the situation than you or I) have spent thousands of man-hours studying the move and the potential problems? This isn't a knee-jerk move. It has been contemplated for some time. I guess you guys on this message board know more about WKU's situation than our own athletic program.

[Toppermaniac]

Regardless if you beat us or won a NC, you never felt like a rival to me.

Why don't you quit your crying and join the Sun Belt board. :bawling:

Well, if we never "felt" like a rival to you, I guess that just settles everything. Hell, why should we even play next Sat. if it isn't going to "feel" like a rivalry to you. Just what in the hell does that mean anyway?

[Toppermaniac]

Honest Question for Hilltopper fans:

If you were given the choice of:

A) An invite to the Missouri Valley Conference, with the understanding you stayed I-AA Gateway

or

B) Going to I-A Sunbelt


Which would you choose??

Personally, I'd like to move everything to Conf. USA, however, that isn't an option YET. As for the immediate moment, I'd rather move to the MVC and stay in the Gateway, but that isn't an option either. The MVC hasn't offered us an invite and we've looked into it. That's sort of strange considering we have a more successful basketball program with more tradition than any in the MVC. Why don't they want us to join the conference? So, the answer is the MVC and the Gateway, but again, that isn't an option. Personally, I can't stand the Sun Belt in either football or basketball, but it's a temporary move.

[PantherRob82]

Well, if we never "felt" like a rival to you, I guess that just settles everything. Hell, why should we even play next Sat. if it isn't going to "feel" like a rivalry to you. Just what in the hell does that mean anyway?

My original comment was that the move didn't bother me because WKU never felt like much of a rival to me. It's my opinion, why do you keep arguing what my opinion should be? xidiotx

[Purple Knight]

Most of the postings by the WKU fans have been with class, congrats. We will miss you guys. Good luck.

[crunifan]

I have to agree with Rob, UNI and WKU just never seemed to have that rivalry feel. I mean sure we wanted to beat you, and you us. But it's not like the atmoshphere when we play SIU.

Then again, UNI doesn't seem to have a rivalry anywhere near what WKU has with EKU or Iowa has with Iowa State. SIU really is about our biggest game...

[catbob]

They've done studies you know. 65% of the time, the students vote EVERY time.