NDSU Athletic Director leaving for Iowa

[NoDak 4 Ever]

God dammit.


Long-time intercollegiate athletics administrator Gene Taylor (http://www.gobison.com/staff.aspx?staff=63) has been selected as the deputy director for the intercollegiate athletics program at the University of Iowa. Taylor will remain the athletic director at North Dakota State through the month of July.

http://www.gobison.com/news/2014/6/16/ATH_0616143821.aspx

[Daytripper]

Uh, oh! He has seen the future.....and is leaving. You can have our AD if you want him....

[BisonFan02]

One of the downfalls of success....best of luck to Gene Taylor...he will be missed.

[BisonBacker]

Uh, oh! He has seen the future.....and is leaving.

No in reality the ultimate compliment NDSU could get is having things like this happen. It stinks when your cupboard is raided but folks go to look where they can find great coaches and now an AD. There will be more good things for NDSU in the future but it's important that the correct hires be made to replace those who have laid the foundation for success and I believe that will continue at NDSU. For those like daytripper who will want to gloat or hope for the downfall of a great program to bad you have to look at this and try to make it look like a negative announcement when in reality it means NDSU is doing things right and NDSU will continue to do things right. Look at our track record for the last 50 years. NDSU hasn't just been successful at this level. It's tradition at NDSU and it will continue.

[dewey]

I can't say that I am surprised. NDSU has had a great athletic year and when you have a LOT of success the coaches and others go onto bigger paying jobs. Best of luck to Gene Taylor as he will be missed.

Dewey

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Uh, oh! He has seen the future.....and is leaving. You can have our AD if you want him....

Keep dreaming.

[Daytripper]

Keep dreaming.

Not really serious. Am kinda dreamin' I guess. Your track record is great and I am sure you will just reload. Our short term success here at SHSU has resulted in the loss of our football and baseball coaches, so I feel your pain. I am serious about our AD, though. No buyout.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Not really serious. Am kinda dreamin' I guess. Your track record is great and I am sure you will just reload. Our short term success here at SHSU has resulted in the loss of our football and baseball coaches, so I feel your pain. I am serious about our AD, though. No buyout.

This one might be a case of "next man up". Our Senior Associate AD has the chops to take the job over. He predates Taylor by a year and will likely just keep the ship going straight ahead.

[IBleedYellow]

If you didn't think this was coming you had another thing coming.

Now we need to see the vision that President Bresciani has. This hire will make or break him.

[MplsBison]

Gene Taylor deserved this opportunity to move on to the next level even more than Bohl, Miles or Phillips. He hired them all. He was part of the foundation that pushed NDSU from a formerly successful DII program (but one that had stagnated) into the most successful Division I program with FCS football in the NCAA.


So with that said, my hope is that they don't hire from within. Taylor was not hired from within. Neither was Bohl. And I consider Taylor and Bohl to be the two most successful athletics hires in the modern history of NDSU.

Sometimes fresh blood does the body good, so to speak. So I'd like to see an AD hired from a program not located in the upper midwest.



Last point - the most obvious point to make. Taylor was the last of four key men from the past to now have moved on. Chapman, Taylor, Kupchella and Thomas. Those were the four men in power (President and AD at each school) when the rivalry ended in a very poor fashion.

As I've always said, it will take all four of those men moving on before the game can be rescheduled. That has now happened.

The rivalry will now be rescheduled. It's about time!

[MplsBison]

If you didn't think this was coming you had another thing coming.

Now we need to see the vision that President Bresciani has. This hire will make or break him.

In some sense, isn't it sad that the president of an institution of higher education - whose main mission is to a) provide undergraduate education to the high school graduates of the state of North Dakota and b) advance the growth of knowledge and economic activity within the state via research - could be deemed a failure simply because he hired the wrong athletic director??

To me it does, anyway.

[Daytripper]

In some sense, isn't it sad that the president of an institution of higher education - whose main mission is to a) provide undergraduate education to the high school graduates of the state of North Dakota and b) advance the growth of knowledge and economic activity within the state via research - could be deemed a failure simply because he hired the wrong athletic director??

To me it does, anyway.

Could it be because our society's priorities are way out of whack? xnodx

[BisonFan02]

Gene Taylor deserved this opportunity to move on to the next level even more than Bohl, Miles or Phillips. He hired them all. He was part of the foundation that pushed NDSU from a formerly successful DII program (but one that had stagnated) into the most successful Division I program with FCS football in the NCAA.


So with that said, my hope is that they don't hire from within. Taylor was not hired from within. Neither was Bohl. And I consider Taylor and Bohl to be the two most successful athletics hires in the modern history of NDSU.

Sometimes fresh blood does the body good, so to speak. So I'd like to see an AD hired from a program not located in the upper midwest.



Last point - the most obvious point to make. Taylor was the last of four key men from the past to now have moved on. Chapman, Taylor, Kupchella and Thomas. Those were the four men in power (President and AD at each school) when the rivalry ended in a very poor fashion.

As I've always said, it will take all four of those men moving on before the game can be rescheduled. That has now happened.

The rivalry will now be rescheduled. It's about time!

Yup....because the first thing that pops in my mind when the AD of NDSU moves on, is some ****ing OOC football game to schedule. Not even close what should be the focus right now. If I had to guess, the hire will be from within, and it will likely be Troy Goergen.

[MplsBison]

Yup....because the first thing that pops in my mind when the AD of NDSU moves on, is some ****ing OOC football game to schedule. Not even close what should be the focus right now. If I had to guess, the hire will be from within, and it will likely be Troy Goergen.

A very poor, very biased guess.

It's one thing to promote from within for basketball (twice) and football (once) when it was the same athletic director the entire time.


But now it's the president of the university who has to hire a new athletic director. And as you well know, the president of NDSU changed in the middle of Taylor's tenure. Our president did not hire Taylor and he is not from the upper midwest (he came from Texas A&M, if you recall).


So I have a good intuition that Pres. Bresciani will make this hire his own and will find someone that he likes, for his reasons. And I implore him to bring someone to NDSU from outside the upper midwest.

Most importantly, someone who can come into the the NDSU situation with a completely fresh slate and have no biases that are rooted in a bygone past. Someone who can look at the situation, see an obvious component that is not being fully utilized and take advantage of it.

It will be the easiest, slam dunk correct decision that a new Division I athletic director has ever gotten to make fresh on the job. And I will be applauding loud and proud when the new AD chooses correctly to have NDSU and UND resume the rivalry in football!!! xnodx xnodx xnodx

[Daytripper]

It is usually wise to avoid academic and athletic department "inbreeding." Fresh ideas are required or institutions become stale.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Feel for you guys, UM has seen that kind of upheaval but it usually doesn't happen all in the same year like this. It's a lot all at once instead of over a couple of years but maybe it's better that way anyway. All the new guys getting their noses bloodied and learning together probably forces a serious bond going forward.

BTW before anyone get too sensitive, noses bloodied does not imply getting your asses kicked on the field, it implies a new guy in a new position learning some things through working the job.

[dewey]

Can't fault a guy for chasing his dreams and I am extremely happy to have had him lead the NDSU athletic ship for many years. Good luck Gene Taylor and thank you for all that you have done for NDSU athletics.

Go Bison!

Dewey

[IBleedYellow]

He wants to be a BCS Athletic Director. Damn I really hope he gets to get it. For all he gave for us, I wish him the best.


That said, this year NDSU lost:

Athletic Director
Head Football Coach and Most Staff
Head Men's Basketball Coach
Head Women's Basketball Coach

I feel like I am forgetting some...

[AmsterBison]

Uh, oh! He has seen the future.....and is leaving. You can have our AD if you want him....

Naw, Gene's ultimate goal has always been to be a BCS athletic director and he thinks that the Iowa job is a way to get there. Good luck to him.

He certainly did a hell of a job at NDSU.

[MplsBison]

Feel for you guys, UM has seen that kind of upheaval but it usually doesn't happen all in the same year like this. It's a lot all at once instead of over a couple of years but maybe it's better that way anyway. All the new guys getting their noses bloodied and learning together probably forces a serious bond going forward.

BTW before anyone get too sensitive, noses bloodied does not imply getting your asses kicked on the field, it implies a new guy in a new position learning some things through working the job.

An interesting thing will be, especially if our president hires an AD from out of the region with no former ties to NDSU, to see what happens once football and men's basketball have losing seasons.


Because the new, current head coaches in those two showcase programs were just promoted within, without a coaching search by the former AD.


So I can imagine that the new AD will have both of those guys on short leashes and will want to make his own hires once those programs eventually start losing again.

[MplsBison]

His ultimate goal has always been to be a BCS athletic director and he thinks that the Iowa job is a way to get there.

Good for him.

There was nothing more to be done at NDSU. We've done all that a school at our level can be expected to do. And there's no realistic chance for NDSU to move up in level any time soon.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

He wants to be a BCS Athletic Director. Damn I really hope he gets to get it. For all he gave for us, I wish him the best.


That said, this year NDSU lost:

Athletic Director
Head Football Coach and Most Staff
Head Men's Basketball Coach
Head Women's Basketball Coach

I feel like I am forgetting some...

Well there was that senior class as well...

[NoDak 4 Ever]

He wants to be a BCS Athletic Director. Damn I really hope he gets to get it. For all he gave for us, I wish him the best.


That said, this year NDSU lost:

Athletic Director
Head Football Coach and Most Staff
Head Men's Basketball Coach
Head Women's Basketball Coach

I feel like I am forgetting some...

I'm not worried in the least. I hope it's Goergen before Wednesday. That's been the MO so far and I'm perfectly fine with it.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Can't fault a guy for chasing his dreams and I am extremely happy to have had him lead the NDSU athletic ship for many years. Good luck Gene Taylor and thank you for all that you have done for NDSU athletics.

Go Bison!

Dewey

Absolutely agree.

[MplsBison]

I'm not worried in the least. I hope it's Goergen before Wednesday. That's been the MO so far and I'm perfectly fine with it.

That's been Taylor's MO. ​Now Taylor is gone.

We don't know what Bresciani's MO is. Especially for an important hire like athletic director.


I hope he brings someone in from the outside.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I don't see any reason to tip the apple cart any more.

[IBleedYellow]

I'm not worried in the least. I hope it's Goergen before Wednesday. That's been the MO so far and I'm perfectly fine with it.


I wouldn't hate an outside hire, either. But it needs to be someone who has the same vision from here. IE: It should probably be someone with a Midwest background. I totally don't agree with MplsBison (lol) that it should be someone outside of the Midwest. I wouldn't say it couldn't be someone from anywhere else: But I wouldn't say it should be someone from outside of the Midwest.

[BisonBacker]

Yup....because the first thing that pops in my mind when the AD of NDSU moves on, is some ****ing OOC football game to schedule. Not even close what should be the focus right now. If I had to guess, the hire will be from within, and it will likely be Troy Goergen.

Amen to that.

[MplsBison]

I don't see any reason to tip the apple cart any more.

This may well be Pres. Bresciani's signature hire. Integral to his legacy at NDSU.

And you want him to "not tip the apple cart" with a guy who has never been AD at NDSU or anywhere, simply because he's been around Bison athletics for a while? Well heck, Brian Gordan has been around NDSU football for a while now too. Maybe Bresciani should hire him as AD?


Sorry. Not gonna happen. Pres. Bres will (correctly) conduct a national search and hire the guy he feels is the right fit for NDSU. Maybe someone he knew down in Texas? Who knows. We will find out.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I wouldn't hate an outside hire, either. But it needs to be someone who has the same vision from here. IE: It should probably be someone with a Midwest background. I totally don't agree with MplsBison (lol) that it should be someone outside of the Midwest. I wouldn't say it couldn't be someone from anywhere else: But I wouldn't say it should be someone from outside of the Midwest.

Yeah, I suppose. I don't understand why we need some cataclysmic shift in operations. This is an incredibly well running machine, we just need a new engineer, so to speak.

[MplsBison]

Yeah, I suppose. I don't understand why we need some cataclysmic shift in operations. This is an incredibly well running machine, we just need a new engineer, so to speak.

You know, you're right.

But I think you also know very well that it's not that simple. There will be a lot of politics and there will be a lot of preferential biases from our Pres. toward what he thinks is correct for NDSU.

[NDB]

This may well be Pres. Bresciani's signature hire. Integral to his legacy at NDSU.


yeah. more important than the provost or VP of research???

athletics IS NOT as big of a deal as you think it is.

[MplsBison]

yeah. more important than the provost or VP of research???

athletics IS NOT as big of a deal as you think it is.

No one remembers the VP of research.

I don't believe for a second that you believe a single word of what you just wrote. You're just scared that I'm going to get my way and that the UND rivalry will be scheduled again if Bresciani brings in a new AD from outside the region that has no experience with the old, bad blood.

I hope it happens. Mainly to spite every old grump NDSU fan that pisses and moans about UND because of something that happened 11 years ago!

[NoDak 4 Ever]

You know, you're right.

But I think you also know very well that it's not that simple. There will be a lot of politics and there will be a lot of preferential biases from our Pres. toward what he thinks is correct for NDSU.

He also knows which side of the bread is buttered. He needs the community and alumni in his corner. He won't buck the system.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

No one remembers the VP of research.

I don't believe for a second that you believe a single word of what you just wrote. You're just scared that I'm going to get my way and that the UND rivalry will be scheduled again if Bresciani brings in a new AD from outside the region that has no experience with the old, bad blood.

I hope it happens. Mainly to spite every old grump NDSU fan that pisses and moans about UND because of something that happened 11 years ago!

I can see you trying to get something going with the UND/NDSU **** MPLS, I suggest you run away from that tactic as quickly as possible because if you keep it up things are gonna get irritating around here for me, and then for you.

Cut the ****.

[MplsBison]

He also knows which side of the bread is buttered. He needs the community and alumni in his corner. He won't buck the system.

We will see. But if I'm a betting man, then I'm putting my money on Bresciani "owning" this hire in a PR campaign and stumping for "his guy", someone from outside the midwest, with team makers and the NDSU alumni community at large.

- - - Updated - - -


I can see you trying to get something going with the UND/NDSU **** MPLS, I suggest you run away from that tactic as quickly as possible because if you keep it up things are gonna get irritating around here for me, and then for you.

Cut the ****.

I've made my point. No need to keep harping it. I will let it rest.

[Bisonoline]

No one remembers the VP of research.

I don't believe for a second that you believe a single word of what you just wrote. You're just scared that I'm going to get my way and that the UND rivalry will be scheduled again if Bresciani brings in a new AD from outside the region that has no experience with the old, bad blood.

I hope it happens. Mainly to spite every old grump NDSU fan that pisses and moans about UND because of something that happened 11 years ago!

The UND game should be the LAST consideration when making the decision on hiring a new AD. With that being said I think an outside hire would be good IF he can be a fit on what the Bison are all about.

[superman7515]

...IF he can be a fit on what the Bison are all about.

xeyebrowx

What exactly are you Bison all about that he needs to fit on?

http://www.cherryplucker.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/bike-peen-seat.jpg

[Bisonoline]

xeyebrowx

What exactly are you Bison all about that he needs to fit on?

http://www.cherryplucker.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/bike-peen-seat.jpg

That isnt one of them. May be a San Fransisco school?

[Bisonoline]

No one remembers the VP of research.

I don't believe for a second that you believe a single word of what you just wrote. You're just scared that I'm going to get my way and that the UND rivalry will be scheduled again if Bresciani brings in a new AD from outside the region that has no experience with the old, bad blood.

I hope it happens. Mainly to spite every old grump NDSU fan that pisses and moans about UND because of something that happened 11 years ago!

As an aside---please dont mention the UND game. If you keep mentioning the rivalry Lakes will be back here with a vengeance.xnodx

[NoDak 4 Ever]

As an aside---please dont mention the UND game. If you keep mentioning the rivalry Lakes will be back here with a vengeance.xnodx

I think Ursus would have a much lower tolerance for an alternate ID.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

xeyebrowx

What exactly are you Bison all about that he needs to fit on?

http://www.cherryplucker.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/bike-peen-seat.jpg

Grizo...unbelievable.

[citdog]

xeyebrowx

What exactly are you Bison all about that he needs to fit on?

http://www.cherryplucker.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/bike-peen-seat.jpg




https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BptjMTwIAAA96iw.jpg:large

[Professor Chaos]

This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone who's followed NDSU athletics (and not just football and men's basketball) over the last several years. Taylor ran a masterful ship with only a few hiccups here or there but by and large he steered NDSU athletics to unprecedented heights as a whole. I get the feeling that with Gary Barta's (current Iowa AD and NDSU alum) ties to NDSU that this marriage with Taylor has been a while in the making. I wish Taylor the best of luck and I'm sure he'll be torn in 2016 when the Bison (at least are scheduled) to head to Kinnick Stadium to face the Hawkeyes.

As far as the new hire goes I don't see any need to be in a hurry. They've already named a very accomplished, albeit academically not athletically, interim AD whom Taylor respects a lot in Prakash Mathew, the recently retired VP of Student Affairs at NDSU. This hire doesn't have the urgency that the head football coach position had and not even the urgency that the head basketball coach position had. I hope President Bresciani and the search committee take their time and make the best hire when all candidates are considered. I don't care if it's Troy Goergen or someone who's never set foot in ND as long as they do their due diligence when making the hire.

I think as far as Taylor is concerned he's left the program about as stable as possible at this level. He made hires for the two highest profile jobs (head football and men's basketball coaches) in the athletic department in the last 6 months. I'd much rather have had him make those hires than a new AD although I do feel kind of bad for those guys that the guy that hired them is now out the door himself and they'll have a new boss in their first year on the job. He also got the shovels in the ground for the Bison Sports Arena renovation which was, by far, the most overdue project to give NDSU the look and feel of a Division 1 caliber university. When Taylor arrived at NDSU he was asked to spearhead a study about reclassifying to Division 1 and he's leaving an accomplished Division 1 athletic department only 13 years later. That's a pretty remarkable job.

[Gil Dobie]

I'm not worried in the least. I hope it's Goergen before Wednesday. That's been the MO so far and I'm perfectly fine with it.

Troy's a great guy, I would be very happy with him.

[centennial]

Good luck to Gene! Thanks for the memories.
Off Topic- Hope we still don't schedule the nameless school to the north.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

No in reality the ultimate compliment NDSU could get is having things like this happen. It stinks when your cupboard is raided but folks go to look where they can find great coaches and now an AD. There will be more good things for NDSU in the future but it's important that the correct hires be made to replace those who have laid the foundation for success and I believe that will continue at NDSU. For those like daytripper who will want to gloat or hope for the downfall of a great program to bad you have to look at this and try to make it look like a negative announcement when in reality it means NDSU is doing things right and NDSU will continue to do things right. Look at our track record for the last 50 years. NDSU hasn't just been successful at this level. It's tradition at NDSU and it will continue.


I didn't even read the rest of the thread!!!

Awesome post!!!

[Bisonator]

This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone who's followed NDSU athletics (and not just football and men's basketball) over the last several years. Taylor ran a masterful ship with only a few hiccups here or there but by and large he steered NDSU athletics to unprecedented heights as a whole. I get the feeling that with Gary Barta's (current Iowa AD and NDSU alum) ties to NDSU that this marriage with Taylor has been a while in the making. I wish Taylor the best of luck and I'm sure he'll be torn in 2016 when the Bison (at least are scheduled) to head to Kinnick Stadium to face the Hawkeyes.

As far as the new hire goes I don't see any need to be in a hurry. They've already named a very accomplished, albeit academically not athletically, interim AD whom Taylor respects a lot in Prakash Mathew, the recently retired VP of Student Affairs at NDSU. This hire doesn't have the urgency that the head football coach position had and not even the urgency that the head basketball coach position had. I hope President Bresciani and the search committee take their time and make the best hire when all candidates are considered. I don't care if it's Troy Goergen or someone who's never set foot in ND as long as they do their due diligence when making the hire.

I think as far as Taylor is concerned he's left the program about as stable as possible at this level. He made hires for the two highest profile jobs (head football and men's basketball coaches) in the athletic department in the last 6 months. I'd much rather have had him make those hires than a new AD although I do feel kind of bad for those guys that the guy that hired them is now out the door himself and they'll have a new boss in their first year on the job. He also got the shovels in the ground for the Bison Sports Arena renovation which was, by far, the most overdue project to give NDSU the look and feel of a Division 1 caliber university. When Taylor arrived at NDSU he was asked to spearhead a study about reclassifying to Division 1 and he's leaving an accomplished Division 1 athletic department only 13 years later. That's a pretty remarkable job.

Excellent post.

I'll just add a thank you to Gene for all he's done and don't expect a game with UND anytime soon. Too many donors do not want it to happen.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Gene Taylor deserved this opportunity to move on to the next level even more than Bohl, Miles or Phillips. He hired them all. He was part of the foundation that pushed NDSU from a formerly successful DII program (but one that had stagnated) into the most successful Division I program with FCS football in the NCAA.


So with that said, my hope is that they don't hire from within. Taylor was not hired from within. Neither was Bohl. And I consider Taylor and Bohl to be the two most successful athletics hires in the modern history of NDSU.

Sometimes fresh blood does the body good, so to speak. So I'd like to see an AD hired from a program not located in the upper midwest.



Last point - the most obvious point to make. Taylor was the last of four key men from the past to now have moved on. Chapman, Taylor, Kupchella and Thomas. Those were the four men in power (President and AD at each school) when the rivalry ended in a very poor fashion.

As I've always said, it will take all four of those men moving on before the game can be rescheduled. That has now happened.

The rivalry will now be rescheduled. It's about time!



Blah...blah...blah

Frickin broken record.....xthumbsdownx

- - - Updated - - -


Gene Taylor deserved this opportunity to move on to the next level even more than Bohl, Miles or Phillips. He hired them all. He was part of the foundation that pushed NDSU from a formerly successful DII program (but one that had stagnated) into the most successful Division I program with FCS football in the NCAA.


So with that said, my hope is that they don't hire from within. Taylor was not hired from within. Neither was Bohl. And I consider Taylor and Bohl to be the two most successful athletics hires in the modern history of NDSU.

Sometimes fresh blood does the body good, so to speak. So I'd like to see an AD hired from a program not located in the upper midwest.



Last point - the most obvious point to make. Taylor was the last of four key men from the past to now have moved on. Chapman, Taylor, Kupchella and Thomas. Those were the four men in power (President and AD at each school) when the rivalry ended in a very poor fashion.

As I've always said, it will take all four of those men moving on before the game can be rescheduled. That has now happened.

The rivalry will now be rescheduled. It's about time!



Blah...blah...blah

Frickin broken record.....xthumbsdownx

[Yotes]

If you didn't think this was coming you had another thing coming.

Now we need to see the vision that President Bresciani has. This hire will make or break him.

That's really telling of NDSU as an academic institution if the president of the university's entire reputation will be based upon his hiring of an ATHLETIC director.

[AmsterBison]

That's really telling of NDSU as an academic institution if the president of the university's entire reputation will be based upon his hiring of an ATHLETIC director.

Irony, as illustrated by the person who used a single anonymous post as the basis for questioning an entire university's academic chops. :)

[superman7515]

Irony, as illustrated by the person who used a single anonymous post as the basis for questioning an entire university's academic chops. :)

He said "it's telling IF". He isn't using it as the basis for anything, simply pointing out (correctly) that if the President's reputation is on the line over an athletics hire, and it will make or break him, then you should make sure he puts in a call to this guy to find out the proper way to run these kind of things...

http://www.10tv.com/content/blogs/connecting-with-community/Images/gordon_gee.jpg

[NoDak 4 Ever]

He said "it's telling IF". He isn't using it as the basis for anything, simply pointing out (correctly) that if the President's reputation is on the line over an athletics hire, and it will make or break him, then you should make sure he puts in a call to this guy to find out the proper way to run these kind of things...

http://www.10tv.com/content/blogs/connecting-with-community/Images/gordon_gee.jpg

The guy who, after the tattoo scandal, said at a press conference that he hoped Gene Smith would let HIM keep HIS job.

[superman7515]

The guy who, after the tattoo scandal, said at a press conference that he hoped Gene Smith would let HIM keep HIS job.

Yep. My point exactly. But he was actually talking about Coach Tressel.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Yep. My point exactly. But he was actually talking about Coach Tressel.

That's right. The details eluded me. I guess I'm just surprised that Smith never catches any crap for anything.

[AmsterBison]

He said "it's telling IF". He isn't using it as the basis for anything, simply pointing out (correctly) that if the President's reputation is on the line over an athletics hire, and it will make or break him, then you should make sure he puts in a call to this guy to find out the proper way to run these kind of things...


Point taken, but he wrote "That's really telling" rather than "That'd be really telling." Maybe he was just in a hurry and messed up his phrasing. When he sets me straight, I'll have a better idea.

All I know is: [All the points that USD's football team has scored on NDSU in the four games since the Bison began the move to DI] < [the average ACT score of incoming freshmen at SDSU] and that must sting. :)

[MplsBison]

Really great article in today's forum about Gene Taylor and it includes a very interesting timeline about some major events that have happened in NDSU's athletic department during his tenure.

About the only two major things I would have included in the timeline are:

March 2014 - NDSU wins its first ever game in the NCAA Division I Men's Basketball tournament (beating Oklahoma in the round of 64)

[Not sure what is the appropriate date] - the BSA Arena renovation is approved


http://www.inforum.com/content/ndsu-ad-gene-taylor-leaving-iowa-job-i-can-never-say-thank-you-enough

[MplsBison]

I know this might get me into trouble with Ursus and for that I pre-emptively apologize. But the story has been published in a newspaper, so it's not just simply my opinion.

I'll post the link and say no more. People can comment if they want.

http://www.grandforksherald.com/content/tom-miller-taylors-exit-changes-und-ndsu-football-conversation


At least from UND’s perspective, part of the cause of the rivalry drought is rooted in bad blood. UND and NDSU’s Division II divorce didn’t go off without some damaged relationships.

Those bad feelings linger more than a decade later.


Now, that doesn’t mean NDSU isn’t in the power position of the rivalry resumption.


As the three-time defending national champions of the FCS, NDSU rightfully held the upper hand in the negotiation showdown.


NDSU’s demands or requests in negotiations were partially just and logical. The Bison are in enough of a good place, especially at home in a packed Fargodome, to dictate the negotiations to some extent.


However, it was also clear Taylor didn’t possess a real desire or sense of urgency to put the UND game back on the schedule. The demands out of Fargo seem to be in constant flux. “Always moving the goalposts” was a common phrase thrown around by Grand Forks fans.


It was easy to blame Taylor, at the center of the negotiations, as a single rivalry roadblock. At times, he appeared to be dragging his feet to play UND.


The most important reason Taylor’s exit leads the UND-NDSU football rivalry into a refreshed discussion is because Taylor was the last major administrator remaining from the hard feelings that resulted during the Division II split.


At that time of the feud, UND’s administrators were athletic director Roger Thomas and President Charles Kupchella. Thomas left UND in 2005 and Kupchella retired in 2008.


Faison, UND’s current AD, and current President Robert Kelley had no involvement in that dated beef.


At NDSU, Taylor was the final piece of the perceived grudge. NDSU president Joe Chapman left his post in Fargo in 2009.


With Taylor out of the picture, renewing the UND-NDSU football rivalry has been injected with new optimism. All eyes first move to Sept. 19, 2015 — the next possible date the two teams could meet in the regular season, a date both schools kept open for a long time for the very possibility.

[IBleedYellow]

Here is a great article about Gene Taylor.




http://www.bisonillustrated.com/2014/06/built-last-taylor-departs-north-dakota-state-program-positioned-long-term-success/




Seriously Mpls, We don't care about the damn NDSU-UND game right now!!! This isn't about you stupid agenda that you wanted pushed.

[dewey]

Seriously Mpls, We don't care about the damn NDSU-UND game right now!!! This isn't about you stupid agenda that you wanted pushed.

Absolutely agree!

Dewey

[clenz]

It sounds as though Taylor will be running the day to day at Iowa and Barta will focus more on fundraising.

[IBleedYellow]

A great quote from the article I linked, which I believe embodies everything that we are at NDSU, and is the reason we have so much attitude when you tell us we are going to fail.

“North Dakota State is so clear about what we stand for and what we’re trying to achieve that we simply don’t have room for those unwilling or unable to fit our exacting standards.”

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I know this might get me into trouble with Ursus and for that I pre-emptively apologize. But the story has been published in a newspaper, so it's not just simply my opinion.

I'll post the link and say no more. People can comment if they want.

http://www.grandforksherald.com/content/tom-miller-taylors-exit-changes-und-ndsu-football-conversation


Tom Miller (http://www.grandforksherald.com/users/tom-miller-0)Miller has been with the Grand Forks Herald sports department for the past 10 years. He's also a Grand Forks native and UND graduate.

Another UND guy with an outsized idea of their importance.

The talks weren't at a stalemate. There was an offer on the table by Taylor that benefited NDSU as was his job.

[MplsBison]

It sounds as though Taylor will be running the day to day at Iowa and Barta will focus more on fundraising.

Apparently Barta knew Taylor wanted to be an AD at a P5 school (he still called it "BCS" in the press conference) and offered Taylor the newly created deputy job as a stepping stone. He told Taylor he'd like him to be there 5-8 years but that he has to at least give him two years.

[AshevilleApp2]

A great quote from the article I linked, which I believe embodies everything that we are at NDSU, and is the reason we have so much attitude when you tell us we are going to fail.

“North Dakota State is so clear about what we stand for and what we’re trying to achieve that we simply don’t have room for those unwilling or unable to fit our exacting standards.”

Good quote. Didn't see anything in the thread about y'all failing either. xnodx

Tough luck on the lost talent, both in players and admin. Good luck with the hire. I'm not sure how the next couple of years will work out for you, but considering the long term track record, you should be fine in no time. And the last sentence is assuming a drop off that may not even occur.

[Yotes]

Point taken, but he wrote "That's really telling" rather than "That'd be really telling." Maybe he was just in a hurry and messed up his phrasing. When he sets me straight, I'll have a better idea.

All I know is: [All the points that USD's football team has scored on NDSU in the four games since the Bison began the move to DI] < [the average ACT score of incoming freshmen at SDSU] and that must sting. :)
I meant to say "That's really telling", so as to take the statement about your president's reputation literally. Obviously not a true statement, but still laughable that there are probably fans out there that believe it.

If I were NDSU I would avoid the football game with UND, unless you are able to get away without returning the trip. Playing them in Grand Forks would be recognizing that the two programs aren't far apart, which couldn't be farther from the truth right now.

[MplsBison]

I meant to say "That's really telling", so as to take the statement about your president's reputation literally. Obviously not a true statement, but still laughable that there are probably fans out there that believe it.

If I were NDSU I would avoid the football game with UND, unless you are able to get away without returning the trip. Playing them in Grand Forks would be recognizing that the two programs aren't far apart, which couldn't be farther from the truth right now.

Easy to say when your rival is in the same conference.

[centennial]

Easy to say when your rival is in the same conference.
No idea why it is a big deal to you? Younger fans don't even care about it. We already have rivalries with UNI and SDSU.

[MplsBison]

No idea why it is a big deal to you? Younger fans don't even care about it. We already have rivalries with UNI and SDSU.

There is a fake rivalry with SDSU, that was forced by the State U's administrations when they lost their real rivals, the U's. But now that SDSU has their real rival back, they don't really care the "rivalry" with NDSU for anything more than what it always was: a cordial partnership. It never was a true, passionate rivalry in football, perhaps save 2007-2009 and that's only because NDSU lost those three years to SDSU's superbowl. They still treat every game with NDSU as their superbowl, but NDSU has bigger fish to fry lately. It's back to how it more or less always was, SDSU is just another conference game.

UNI is the closest thing we have to a rivalry, in football. But one sport doesn't cut it and NDSU will never be invited to the MVC (which is a good thing). So that doesn't work either.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

There is a fake rivalry with SDSU, that was forced by the State U's administrations when they lost their real rivals, the U's. But now that SDSU has their real rival back, they don't really care the "rivalry" with NDSU for anything more than what it always was: a cordial partnership. It never was a true, passionate rivalry in football, perhaps save 2007-2009 and that's only because NDSU lost those three years to SDSU's superbowl. They still treat every game with NDSU as their superbowl, but NDSU has bigger fish to fry lately. It's back to how it more or less always was, SDSU is just another conference game.

UNI is the closest thing we have to a rivalry, in football. But one sport doesn't cut it and NDSU will never be invited to the MVC (which is a good thing). So that doesn't work either.


SDSU and UNI are in our conference and are our rivals. Both of those games are huge......not a irrelevant UND game.

[MplsBison]

SDSU and UNI are in our conference and are our rivals. Both of those games are huge......not a irrelevant UND game.

UNI is not in the Summit League. They can't be NDSU rival, except for football.

SDSU is not a true rivalry. It's a cordial partnership and has been since the two State U's teamed up together to transition classifications.

[Kemo]

There is a fake rivalry with SDSU, that was forced by the State U's administrations when they lost their real rivals, the U's. But now that SDSU has their real rival back, they don't really care the "rivalry" with NDSU for anything more than what it always was: a cordial partnership. It never was a true, passionate rivalry in football, perhaps save 2007-2009 and that's only because NDSU lost those three years to SDSU's superbowl. They still treat every game with NDSU as their superbowl, but NDSU has bigger fish to fry lately. It's back to how it more or less always was, SDSU is just another conference game.

UNI is the closest thing we have to a rivalry, in football. But one sport doesn't cut it and NDSU will never be invited to the MVC (which is a good thing). So that doesn't work either.

You are not qualified to speak for Bison fans, let alone SDSU fans.

SDSU/NDSU games are important in all the sports because, not only is it a rivalry game (anyone who doesn't think so obviously hasn't been to a Jackrabbit/Bison game in the last decade), but it also plays a huge role in who wins the conference in the respective sport. Almost every year the xDSUs finish 1/2 in the Summit League's Commissioner Cup standings, so if your goal is a conference championship, you'd better be up for playing the team that will be your main competition.

[344Johnson]

UNI is not in the Summit League. They can't be NDSU rival, except for football.

SDSU is not a true rivalry. It's a cordial partnership and has been since the two State U's teamed up together to transition classifications.


Notre Dame/USC I believe is Football only rivalry and it's one of the big ones.

Football drives rivalries everywhere but Tobacco Road

[clenz]

Some UNI fans will consider NDSU a rival and some (likely a majority...though a shrinking majority) won't.

UNI's rivals, if you'd ask 90%+ of the fan base are SIU and MSU (only because of TA and that rivalry is about dead which is probably why NDSU is gaining steam).

For UNI the rivalries are driven by competition in multiple sports.

I'm sure it could be considered a football only rivalry, though I'm not sure it's a *true* rivalry in the traditional sense of the word.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Some UNI fans will consider NDSU a rival and some (likely a majority...though a shrinking majority) won't.

UNI's rivals, if you'd ask 90%+ of the fan base are SIU and MSU (only because of TA and that rivalry is about dead which is probably why NDSU is gaining steam).

For UNI the rivalries are driven by competition in multiple sports.

I'm sure it could be considered a football only rivalry, though I'm not sure it's a *true* rivalry in the traditional sense of the word.

Wait till you get beat in CF this year, I'll bet we won't be very welcomed around town that evening.

[darell1976]

No idea why it is a big deal to you? Younger fans don't even care about it. We already have rivalries with UNI and SDSU.

That is true on both sides. More and more UND fans are now jumping on the wagon of "if they don't want to play fine, if they do, fine". UND has 2 spots open, 1 in '15 and one in '17, '16 is full, so if UND gets a H/H with a DI team for 15/17 their schedule is full for the next 3 seasons, and that is huge when trying to find opponents. Whether or not both schools (especially UND) left that spot open for the other on purpose I am not sure, but since the terms isn't going to be met, I say Brian Faison, fill those dates with someone else, and move on. I know people want the game, sure I would like to see it, but its to the point where it doesn't matter if we don't play.

[BisonFan02]

That is true on both sides. More and more UND fans are now jumping on the wagon of "if they don't want to play fine, if they do, fine". UND has 2 spots open, 1 in '15 and one in '17, '16 is full, so if UND gets a H/H with a DI team for 15/17 their schedule is full for the next 3 seasons, and that is huge when trying to find opponents. Whether or not both schools (especially UND) left that spot open for the other on purpose I am not sure, but since the terms isn't going to be met, I say Brian Faison, fill those dates with someone else, and move on. I know people want the game, sure I would like to see it, but its to the point where it doesn't matter if we don't play.

Yup. End discussion/ No need to bring up the game or even possibility.

[darell1976]

You are not qualified to speak for Bison fans, let alone SDSU fans.

SDSU/NDSU games are important in all the sports because, not only is it a rivalry game (anyone who doesn't think so obviously hasn't been to a Jackrabbit/Bison game in the last decade), but it also plays a huge role in who wins the conference in the respective sport. Almost every year the xDSUs finish 1/2 in the Summit League's Commissioner Cup standings, so if your goal is a conference championship, you'd better be up for playing the team that will be your main competition.

I think this is the key reason why the UND-NDSU rivalry is dying out in playing each other. If you lose its just smack talk you get from the other fanbase, and it doesn't reflect much in the standings. The rival was huge in the NCC because of a conference title was on the line, now its an OOC game. SDSU is having DI success in football and basketball and is fighting NDSU for a top spot in their conference so their rival (although tame between the fan bases compared to UND-NDSU) the level is higher when they play due to the importance to the game. I don't know how much hatred you guys have towards USD but until their level of DI play rises considerably I think that game would take a backseat to NDSU.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

That is true on both sides. More and more UND fans are now jumping on the wagon of "if they don't want to play fine, if they do, fine". UND has 2 spots open, 1 in '15 and one in '17, '16 is full, so if UND gets a H/H with a DI team for 15/17 their schedule is full for the next 3 seasons, and that is huge when trying to find opponents. Whether or not both schools (especially UND) left that spot open for the other on purpose I am not sure, but since the terms isn't going to be met, I say Brian Faison, fill those dates with someone else, and move on. I know people want the game, sure I would like to see it, but its to the point where it doesn't matter if we don't play.

You need to tell your friends on SiouxSports that, because they don't seem to believe it.

[darell1976]

A question to Bison fans...has NDSU always had 2 Athletic Directors? I would think that Taylor was the "boss" even if they were equals. Am I correct?

[NoDak 4 Ever]

A question to Bison fans...has NDSU always had 2 Athletic Directors? I would think that Taylor was the "boss" even if they were equals. Am I correct?

They are not equals. Taylor is Dorn's boss.

Dorn is a waste of carbon, she clearly has some blackmail materails.

[darell1976]

You need to tell your friends on SiouxSports that, because they don't seem to believe it.
There are more and more of them "me included" who are jumping on that wagon. I wanted that game really bad, growing up during that rival, seeing NDSU demolish UND in the 80's then seeing the tides turn and UND win in the 90's/2000, it was a fun game to attend (especially if your team wins). Now, no conference title on the line, no Nickel Trophy, it would be nice to play but not necessary.

- - - Updated - - -


They are not equals. Taylor is Dorn's boss.

Dorn is a waste of carbon, she clearly has some blackmail materails.

Did Taylor do all the scheduling or did she do it for the women?

[NoDak 4 Ever]

There are more and more of them "me included" who are jumping on that wagon. I wanted that game really bad, growing up during that rival, seeing NDSU demolish UND in the 80's then seeing the tides turn and UND win in the 90's/2000, it was a fun game to attend (especially if your team wins). Now, no conference title on the line, no Nickel Trophy, it would be nice to play but not necessary.

- - - Updated - - -



Did Taylor do all the scheduling or did she do it for the women?

I absolutely could not tell you what her job is. She get's a **** ton of money for it but I don't know what she does.

[darell1976]

I absolutely could not tell you what her job is. She get's a **** ton of money for it but I don't know what she does.

I wonder if it bugs her to see Taylor get the spotlight (big scheduling games, winning NC) while (if she read message boards) she get dumped on by fans.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I wonder if it bugs her to see Taylor get the spotlight (big scheduling games, winning NC) while (if she read message boards) she get dumped on by fans.

**** her. She's a dinosaur held over from the DII days. The women's programs were very successful in DII but they are **** in DI. She should have gotten fired when she got caught doing whatever she did with the student.

[BisonFan02]

There are more and more of them "me included" who are jumping on that wagon. I wanted that game really bad, growing up during that rival, seeing NDSU demolish UND in the 80's then seeing the tides turn and UND win in the 90's/2000, it was a fun game to attend (especially if your team wins). Now, no conference title on the line, no Nickel Trophy, it would be nice to play but not necessary.

- - - Updated - - -



Did Taylor do all the scheduling or did she do it for the women?

Quoted for truth....don't ever complain about the game not being scheduled again.

[centennial]

That is true on both sides. More and more UND fans are now jumping on the wagon of "if they don't want to play fine, if they do, fine". UND has 2 spots open, 1 in '15 and one in '17, '16 is full, so if UND gets a H/H with a DI team for 15/17 their schedule is full for the next 3 seasons, and that is huge when trying to find opponents. Whether or not both schools (especially UND) left that spot open for the other on purpose I am not sure, but since the terms isn't going to be met, I say Brian Faison, fill those dates with someone else, and move on. I know people want the game, sure I would like to see it, but its to the point where it doesn't matter if we don't play.
Agreed, UND should go and schedule those games with other schools. A new AD won't want to get in this mess till he/she gets settled. Maybe a game in 17 if everything goes right. For NDSU its a inconsequential game that doesn't help winning the NC or our conference.

[MarkyMark]

That is true on both sides. More and more UND fans are now jumping on the wagon of "if they don't want to play fine, if they do, fine".

Are you sure about this? Its your fan base but it seems like every UND fan that comments online is itching get the game back on. I think your statement may have been true a few years ago but after the low point of the Muss era it seems like your fan base keeps talking up the need to get this game back on (because its for the greater good for all the people of North Dakota of course).

[MplsBison]

A question to Bison fans...has NDSU always had 2 Athletic Directors? I would think that Taylor was the "boss" even if they were equals. Am I correct?

Historically, most (all?) athletic departments had two athletic directors - one for men's sports and one for women's sports. It was in keeping with the spirit of the newly minted title IX, equality in everything.

In modern times they've all changed to a system with a single director and then an associate or deputy director for women's sports. That new title serves all the same function, just doesn't get to command the same position as the athletic director.


I think Dorn's title within NDSU's athletic department is a legacy, given how long she's been there. But she does not command the same position as the athletic director, despite her title. I'd like to see her title changed to "Senior Associate Athletic Director - Women's Athletics", but I doubt they'll do that until she retires.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Historically, most (all?) athletic departments had two athletic directors - one for men's sports and one for women's sports. Now, they've all changed to a system with one director and then one associate director for women's sports. That new title serves all the same function, just doesn't get to command the same position as the actual athletic director.

I think Dorn's title within NDSU's athletic department is a legacy, given how long she's been there. I'd like to see her title changed to "Senior Associate Athletic Director - Women's Athletic's", but I doubt they'll do that until she retires.

I'd like to see her title changed to "Former Women's Athletic Director"

amirite?

[MplsBison]

You are not qualified to speak for Bison fans, let alone SDSU fans.

SDSU/NDSU games are important in all the sports because, not only is it a rivalry game (anyone who doesn't think so obviously hasn't been to a Jackrabbit/Bison game in the last decade), but it also plays a huge role in who wins the conference in the respective sport. Almost every year the xDSUs finish 1/2 in the Summit League's Commissioner Cup standings, so if your goal is a conference championship, you'd better be up for playing the team that will be your main competition.

Spoken like an SDSU fan.

As far as football goes, I can't think of a single SDSU game other than 2006 and 2007 that mattered for NDSU. Those games were both for the Great West conference championship (even though SDSU's overall record in 2006 was poor).

Before then, SDSU meant about as much to NDSU fans as a game against St. Cloud or Mankato did.

Since then, UNI has filled that spot as the team that NDSU fans know we must beat.

There is no the manufactured trophy game, but it starts to become meaningless when you win it every year since 2010. AND beat SDSU again in the playoffs.


You might have more of a case for Men's Basketball, which I don't follow as closely so I'm not aware of when NDSU and SDSU were 1/2 in the regular season. There haven't been too many Summit League tournament championships for NDSU against SDSU in the title game. Our two were Oakland in 2009 and this this past year against IPFW.

Then in the rest of the sports, the game doesn't matter more than any other Summit League game.


UND is still the only team that gets people to actually take notice outside of football and men's basketball. And this year they beat us in: volleyball, soccer, men's basketball, women's basketball and baseball. Pretty sad.

[MplsBison]

I'd like to see her title changed to "Former Women's Athletic Director"

amirite?

Well frankly I don't much care about women's basketball, volleyball or soccer. Softball and track seem to have done just fine. No surprise, those teams have retained the awesome coaches that they've had for quite some time.

And it's not like Dorn has screwed up football or men's basketball ..... so I don't really get the internet message board (Bisonville) conjured hatred of her.


It seems to me about the same thing as the conjured hatred of the UND game: it's the same 20 guys who go around the internet trying their hardest to make it seem like the entire NDSU fan base feels the same way. Which is a bunch of horse poop.

[IBleedYellow]

Are we actually having an intelligent discussion about the UxD and xDSU rivalries right now?


Holy ****, I'm actually impressed people.


On topic: If all of the schools were in the same conference there would be a huge amount of animosity between all of the schools, but since there is one school that 1) didn't have a good transition, and 2) isn't in the same conference as the others, the animosity between the 4 isn't nearly the same as what it could be.



Spoken like an SDSU fan.

As far as football goes, I can't think of a single SDSU game other than 2006 and 2007 that mattered for NDSU. Those games were both for the Great West conference championship (even though SDSU's overall record in 2006 was poor).

Before then, SDSU meant about as much to NDSU fans as a game against St. Cloud or Mankato did.

Since then, UNI has filled that spot as the team that NDSU fans know we must beat.

There is no the manufactured trophy game, but it starts to become meaningless when you win it every year since 2010. AND beat SDSU again in the playoffs.


You might have more of a case for Men's Basketball, which I don't follow as closely so I'm not aware of when NDSU and SDSU were 1/2 in the regular season. There haven't been too many Summit League tournament championships for NDSU against SDSU in the title game. Our two were Oakland in 2009 and this this past year against IPFW.

Then in the rest of the sports, the game doesn't matter more than any other Summit League game.


UND is still the only team that gets people to actually take notice outside of football and men's basketball.


No. Just no.

[MplsBison]

Are we actually having an intelligent discussion about the UxD and xDSU rivalries right now?


Holy ****, I'm actually impressed people.


On topic: If all of the schools were in the same conference there would be a huge amount of animosity between all of the schools, but since there is one school that 1) didn't have a good transition, and 2) isn't in the same conference as the others, the animosity between the 4 isn't nearly the same as what it could be.

No. Just no.

Good point, UND didn't have a good transition to Division I.

They beat us in volleyball, soccer, men's basketball, women's basketball and baseball this year. Yeah, they pretty much suck.


By the way, I realize that sometimes my arguments are so clearly and powerfully worded that it leaves the reader in such a stunned, bristling state that he/she is unable to respond with more than "No. Just no." But I'm just saying, it might help your case if you can elaborate a bit more.

[Bisonoline]

Good point, UND didn't have a good transition to Division I.

They beat us in volleyball, soccer, men's basketball, women's basketball and baseball this year. Yeah, they pretty much suck.


By the way, I realize that sometimes my arguments are so clearly and powerfully worded that it leaves the reader in such a stunned, bristling state that he/she is unable to respond with more than "No. Just no." But I'm just saying, it might help your case if you can elaborate a bit more.

Four dimensions of narcissism as a personality variable have been delineated: leadership/authority, superiority/arrogance, self-absorption/self-admiration, and exploitativeness/entitlement.[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism#cite_note-6)
A 2012 popular book on power-hungry narcissists suggests that narcissists typically display most, and sometimes all, of the following traits:[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism#cite_note-7)


An obvious self-focus in interpersonal exchanges
Problems in sustaining satisfying relationships
A lack of psychological awareness (see insight in psychology and psychiatry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insight_in_psychology_and_psychiatry), egosyntonic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egosyntonic))
Difficulty with empathy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empathy)
Problems distinguishing the self from others (see narcissism and boundaries (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_boundaries#Narcissism_and_boundaries))
Hypersensitivity to any insults or imagined insults (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insults) (see criticism and narcissists (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism#Criticism_and_narcissists), narcissistic rage and narcissistic injury (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_rage_and_narcissistic_injury))
Vulnerability (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulnerability) to shame (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shame) rather than guilt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guilt_%28emotion%29)
Haughty body language (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_language)
Flattery (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flattery) towards people who admire and affirm them (narcissistic supply (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_supply))
Detesting those who do not admire them (narcissistic abuse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_abuse))
Using other people without considering the cost of doing so
Pretending to be more important than they really are
Bragging (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bragging) (subtly but persistently) and exaggerating (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exaggerating) their achievements
Claiming to be an "expert" at many things
Inability to view the world from the perspective of other people
Denial (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial) of remorse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remorse) and gratitude (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gratitude)

[IBleedYellow]

Good point, UND didn't have a good transition to Division I.

They beat us in volleyball, soccer, men's basketball, women's basketball and baseball this year. Yeah, they pretty much suck.


By the way, I realize that sometimes my arguments are so clearly and powerfully worded that it leaves the reader in such a stunned, bristling state that he/she is unable to respond with more than "No. Just no." But I'm just saying, it might help your case if you can elaborate a bit more.


So all of UND's good wins were just against us? Tell me, who all did they beat? Marquette? Wisconsin? Kansas? Minnesota?

Since they've completed their transition they have barely won conference championships, yet to go to the dance.

Since their D1 transition the only thing they have done was get into the D1 hockey semifinals and women's basketball NCAA tournament.

They've had horrible football results since they stepped up after telling us D1 wasn't the correct way to go.

SDSU has: playoff wins, and conference wins. If NDSU doesn't have the most dominant teams in the past 10 years, SDSU could have done much better, and their stopping block was us. The rivalry was for sure set up between the schools first and foremost, but since, as you admit yourself, that you haven't been to any games other than football you would not know the feeling or the atmosphere when we play them in other sports. You clearly can't be the judge of a rivalry if you only care about football, considering we play them in all sports.

[MplsBison]

So all of UND's good wins were just against us? Tell me, who all did they beat? Marquette? Wisconsin? Kansas? Minnesota?

Since they've completed their transition they have barely won conference championships, yet to go to the dance.

Since their D1 transition the only thing they have done was get into the D1 hockey semifinals and women's basketball NCAA tournament.

They've had horrible football results since they stepped up after telling us D1 wasn't the correct way to go.

SDSU has: playoff wins, and conference wins. If NDSU doesn't have the most dominant teams in the past 10 years, SDSU could have done much better, and their stopping block was us. The rivalry was for sure set up between the schools first and foremost, but since, as you admit yourself, that you haven't been to any games other than football you would not know the feeling or the atmosphere when we play them in other sports. You clearly can't be the judge of a rivalry if you only care about football, considering we play them in all sports.

I don't follow UND sports closely, but I know they won the women's basketball tournament and thus went to the NCAA DI tournament in that sport. They were also in the Big Sky tournament title game for men's basketball but did not win.

Not sure how they did in the Big Sky tournaments for volleyball and soccer, nor the WAC tournament for baseball.


Nothing I've said about the "rivalry" with SDSU is false. It was manufactured (literally). The schools formed a partnership in the move to Division I and that partnership sensibility permeates the fanbases during games played against each other.

The NDSU and UND fanbases hate each other. That's what a real rivalry should be.

[Bisonator]

By the way, I realize that sometimes my arguments are so utterly stupid that it leaves the reader knowing that I am actually a UND fan and like to troll Bison fans.

xlolx

[344Johnson]

The rivalry was for sure set up between the schools first and foremost, but since, as you admit yourself, that you haven't been to any games other than football you would not know the feeling or the atmosphere when we play them in other sports. You clearly can't be the judge of a rivalry if you only care about football, considering we play them in all sports.

Fact: most exciting basketball games to go to during my time at NDSU have been the SDSU games.

The games mean something. The value of playing in the same conference is huge.

[darell1976]

I don't follow UND sports closely, but I know they won the women's basketball tournament and thus went to the NCAA DI tournament in that sport. They were also in the Big Sky tournament title game for men's basketball but did not win.

Not sure how they did in the Big Sky tournaments for volleyball and soccer, nor the WAC tournament for baseball.


Nothing I've said about the "rivalry" with SDSU is false. It was manufactured (literally). The schools formed a partnership in the move to Division I and that partnership sensibility permeates the fanbases during games played against each other.

The NDSU and UND fanbases hate each other. That's what a real rivalry should be.

UND was co-champs for volleyball and lost in the tournament, as for soccer I think UND won 3 games all year, baseball was average at best and did not make the WAC tournament. Soccer and baseball/softball if dropped no one would care. I would rather see UND take that money and either invest in football/basketball or take up Lacrosse. Baseball/softball is not good living in the north (unless you can play in a dome), and soccer might as well be considered a Title IX sport with hockey (if they could they would be gone). Yes beating NDSU was nice from a rivalry standpoint, but seeing NDSU win a NC in football, and beating Oklahoma in the dance makes those wins worthless. I would trade any win over NDSU if we could win a NC or win a game in the dance (since no way we will win a NC in basketball).

[darell1976]

Just wondering Bison fans, how is your relationship with USD? I am sure hatred towards them is less than SDSU, but has there ever been any "heated' games? I am sure the greatest win over them was probably the DII NC game, since USD hasn't had much success beating you guys in any sport (especially football), I can't think of a big win for them over you guys.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Just wondering Bison fans, how is your relationship with USD? I am sure hatred towards them is less than SDSU, but has there ever been any "heated' games? I am sure the greatest win over them was probably the DII NC game, since USD hasn't had much success beating you guys in any sport (especially football), I can't think of a big win for them over you guys.

That's it. 28 years ago. Nothing since.

[IBleedYellow]

Fact: most exciting basketball games to go to during my time at NDSU have been the SDSU games.

The games mean something. The value of playing in the same conference is huge.

Agreed. If they really want this rivalry back we'd have to be in the same conference, AND UND would need to be competing for the titles on a yearly basis. Since both schools are content with their current standings with regards to conferences, nothing much more will come.


UND was co-champs for volleyball and lost in the tournament, as for soccer I think UND won 3 games all year, baseball was average at best and did not make the WAC tournament. Soccer and baseball/softball if dropped no one would care. I would rather see UND take that money and either invest in football/basketball or take up Lacrosse. Baseball/softball is not good living in the north (unless you can play in a dome), and soccer might as well be considered a Title IX sport with hockey (if they could they would be gone). Yes beating NDSU was nice from a rivalry standpoint, but seeing NDSU win a NC in football, and beating Oklahoma in the dance makes those wins worthless. I would trade any win over NDSU if we could win a NC or win a game in the dance (since no way we will win a NC in basketball).

I'm not trying to **** on UND when I say this, but thank you for backing up my points I was trying to make to Mpls.



Just wondering Bison fans, how is your relationship with USD? I am sure hatred towards them is less than SDSU, but has there ever been any "heated' games? I am sure the greatest win over them was probably the DII NC game, since USD hasn't had much success beating you guys in any sport (especially football), I can't think of a big win for them over you guys.


Nothing really. Considering they haven't been in contention for football/basketball against us. Other sports I can't tell you nearly as much. USD has come a long ways from when they were in DII, though.

[darell1976]

Nothing really. Considering they haven't been in contention for football/basketball against us. Other sports I can't tell you nearly as much. USD has come a long ways from when they were in DII, though.

I hear UND/NDSU, I hear NDSU/SDSU especially with the trophy you guys have, but nothing is really said when USD comes to town or you go to Vermillion. I think Joe Glenn was good on their part and will improve the football team, and with a new basketball arena they can contend in basketball but when you hear about the 4 Dakota teams it seems like USD is rarely mentioned.

[RabidRabbit]

USD is still working their way through to be an "upper division" conference school. In the MVFC, I see them struggling each year to be "meaningfully challenging" for auto-bid. Vermillion, along with Macomb, IL, probably are the worst towns in the MVFC. USD is the only school with under 8K students, while most of the rest are 12-15K (or larger).

In Summit, playing BB in the DakotaDome is a solid home court advantage, but away from there, it's a huge disadvantage. Congrats to USD for surprising SDSU in the Women's BB tourney to keep SDSU from going to their straight 6 NCAA tourney. Left the 'Yotes fed to Stanford as a 15 seed. SDSU played to the final 4 of the WNIT. USD has 60% women, so they are busted by title IX out of most men's sports (no baseball, soccer, wrestling) so they'll never be competitive for the Summit all-sports titles.

These 4 schools should be in the same conference. They have a LONG HISTORY of association, and make a solid foundation for a conference, as the Summit League well knows. The I-29/I-49 conference alignment would work well. A conference of the ex-NCC members (4 Dakotas, No Colo, Neb-Omaha, UNI) is still attractive to this Rabbit. UNI may not want to "drop back", but given how they succeed in the 3 primary (football, basketball (M & W)), they wouldn't dominate, but would likely be upper half.

[semobison]

Just wondering Bison fans, how is your relationship with USD? I am sure hatred towards them is less than SDSU, but has there ever been any "heated' games? I am sure the greatest win over them was probably the DII NC game, since USD hasn't had much success beating you guys in any sport (especially football), I can't think of a big win for them over you guys.

As far as football goes, it is kind of hard to hate a team that you have beat 54-0 and 42-0 the last two seasons!

[centennial]

USD is still working their way through to be an "upper division" conference school. In the MVFC, I see them struggling each year to be "meaningfully challenging" for auto-bid. Vermillion, along with Macomb, IL, probably are the worst towns in the MVFC. USD is the only school with under 8K students, while most of the rest are 12-15K (or larger).

In Summit, playing BB in the DakotaDome is a solid home court advantage, but away from there, it's a huge disadvantage. Congrats to USD for surprising SDSU in the Women's BB tourney to keep SDSU from going to their straight 6 NCAA tourney. Left the 'Yotes fed to Stanford as a 15 seed. SDSU played to the final 4 of the WNIT. USD has 60% women, so they are busted by title IX out of most men's sports (no baseball, soccer, wrestling) so they'll never be competitive for the Summit all-sports titles.

These 4 schools should be in the same conference. They have a LONG HISTORY of association, and make a solid foundation for a conference, as the Summit League well knows. The I-29/I-49 conference alignment would work well. A conference of the ex-NCC members (4 Dakotas, No Colo, Neb-Omaha, UNI) is still attractive to this Rabbit. UNI may not want to "drop back", but given how they succeed in the 3 primary (football, basketball (M & W)), they wouldn't dominate, but would likely be upper half.
UND is not getting to MVFC and the Summit anytime soon. Plus it would be a competitive upgrade for their Football, Basketball programs. They are not shifting to a harder league when they barely average in their current one.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

As far as football goes, it is kind of hard to hate a team that you have beat 54-0 and 42-0 the last two seasons!


This here.

Glenn has improved the football team but his age is working against him. IMO, USD will be hard pressed to consistently move ahead of NDSU-SDSU-UNI-SIU-YSU to be an upper half Valley team.

[NDB]

UND is not getting to MVFC and the Summit anytime soon. Plus it would be a competitive upgrade for their Football, Basketball programs. They are not shifting to a harder league when they barely average in their current one.

um. no.

they had two wins in conference last year. three in 2012.


they've got a ways to go to be average. that being said, they can do it.

[BisonFan02]

USD is still working their way through to be an "upper division" conference school. In the MVFC, I see them struggling each year to be "meaningfully challenging" for auto-bid. Vermillion, along with Macomb, IL, probably are the worst towns in the MVFC. USD is the only school with under 8K students, while most of the rest are 12-15K (or larger).

In Summit, playing BB in the DakotaDome is a solid home court advantage, but away from there, it's a huge disadvantage. Congrats to USD for surprising SDSU in the Women's BB tourney to keep SDSU from going to their straight 6 NCAA tourney. Left the 'Yotes fed to Stanford as a 15 seed. SDSU played to the final 4 of the WNIT. USD has 60% women, so they are busted by title IX out of most men's sports (no baseball, soccer, wrestling) so they'll never be competitive for the Summit all-sports titles.

These 4 schools should be in the same conference. They have a LONG HISTORY of association, and make a solid foundation for a conference, as the Summit League well knows. The I-29/I-49 conference alignment would work well. A conference of the ex-NCC members (4 Dakotas, No Colo, Neb-Omaha, UNI) is still attractive to this Rabbit. UNI may not want to "drop back", but given how they succeed in the 3 primary (football, basketball (M & W)), they wouldn't dominate, but would likely be upper half.

0% chance UNI joins the NCC group back. Regardless, the Dakotas, along with the more local Summit schools, would make a decent/stable base for a conference.

[MplsBison]

Fact: most exciting basketball games to go to during my time at NDSU have been the SDSU games.

The games mean something. The value of playing in the same conference is huge.

That's because you were too young to go to NDSU UND basketball games from the NCC days. One of the few regular season basketball games that meant something to NDSU fans back then.

But I understand why you're in such a rush to tell anyone who will listen that UND doesn't mean anything to you: you have Bisonville elders to impress. Maybe they'll make you a lieutenant in the family someday?

[BisonFan02]

That's because you were too young to go to NDSU UND basketball games from the NCC days. One of the few regular season basketball games that meant something to NDSU fans back then.

But I understand why you're in such a rush to tell anyone who will listen that UND doesn't mean anything to you: you have Bisonville elders to impress. Maybe they'll make you a lieutenant in the family someday?

Were those "elders" old enough to remember NCC bball?

[MplsBison]

UND is not getting to MVFC and the Summit anytime soon. Plus it would be a competitive upgrade for their Football, Basketball programs. They are not shifting to a harder league when they barely average in their current one.

They played in the title game in men's basketball. That's above average.

They have work to do in football, but the Big Sky is on average the same as the MVFC.

- - - Updated - - -


Were those "elders" old enough to remember NCC bball?

Of course.

[centennial]

They played in the title game in men's basketball. That's above average.

They have work to do in football, but the Big Sky is on average the same as the MVFC.

- - - Updated - - -



Of course.
What the Big Sky is the same as the MVFC? Not even Big Sky fans claim that. So let's get this straight- MAC is a step up, Slum Belt is a step up and Big Sky is equal? Is Pioneer an equal too? Is it true that you are a fan of the nameless university up north?

[clenz]

They played in the title game in men's basketball. That's above average.

They have work to do in football, but the Big Sky is on average the same as the MVFC.

- - - Updated - - -



Of course.
The Big Sky is the was the. 28th ish rated conference last season in the rpi. Thre MVC was 11 and the Summit about 17.

I can go back and check but i believe the 7th or 8th place team in the MVC would have been third in the BSC. The BSC is to basketball. As the Pioneer or SWAC is to FCS football

Sent from my S4 using Tapatalk so if there is typos deal with it.

[MplsBison]

The Big Sky is the was the. 28th ish rated conference last season in the rpi. Thre MVC was 11 and the Summit about 17.

I can go back and check but i believe the 7th or 8th place team in the MVC would have been third in the BSC. The BSC is to basketball. As the Pioneer or SWAC is to FCS football

Hence why I prefaced the comment with "they have work to do in football​".

[clenz]

I went and looked. BSC had 1 top 50 team (Weber at 147). UND finished third with an RPI of 213. The 7th place team in the MVC finished with an RPI of 214 and 8th place was 216.

Really take a second to think about that once. The champion of the BsC would have been 5th in the MVC in RPI. I guess they were above average in the BSC but not the Summit or MVC.

Above average for a Big Sky basketball team is like being in the running fir worlds tallest midget most years

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[MplsBison]

What the Big Sky is the same as the MVFC? Not even Big Sky fans claim that. So let's get this straight- MAC is a step up, Slum Belt is a step up and Big Sky is equal? Is Pioneer an equal too? Is it true that you are a fan of the nameless university up north?

Of course they do, and they're right.

Unfortunately, there's barely any crossover between the Big Sky teams in the Mountain and Pacific time zones and the MVFC teams. I think South Dakota and UC Davis played last year?

Big Sky got Southern Utah, Northern Arizona, Montana and Eastern Washington in the playoff bracket. MVFC got NDSU and SDSU in.

SDSU went to Northern AZ and beat NAU. Then they went to EWU and got smoked. That's it for games between the conferences. I won't acknowledge or accept analysis based on 2nd tier comparisons ("this team beat that team and that team played another team the next week", that type of garbage).

[MplsBison]

I went and looked. BSC had 1 top 50 team (Weber at 147). UND finished third with an RPI of 213. The 7th place team in the MVC finished with an RPI of 214 and 8th place was 216.

Really take a second to think about that once. The champion of the BsC would have been 5th in the MVC in RPI. I guess they were above average in the BSC but not the Summit or MVC.

Above average for a Big Sky basketball team is like being in the running fir worlds tallest midget most years


Are you done yet? No one was comparing Big Sky bball to anything.

[clenz]

Of course they do, and they're right.

Unfortunately, there's barely any crossover between the Big Sky teams in the Mountain and Pacific time zones and the MVFC teams. I think South Dakota and UC Davis played last year?

Big Sky got Southern Utah, Northern Arizona, Montana and Eastern Washington in the playoff bracket. MVFC got NDSU and SDSU in.

SDSU went to Northern AZ and beat NAU. Then they went to EWU and got smoked. That's it for games between the conferences. I won't acknowledge or accept analysis based on 2nd tier comparisons ("this team beat that team and that team played another team the next week", that type of garbage).

Um... Uni didn't play a Big Sky team last season?

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[semobison]

Of course they do, and they're right.

Unfortunately, there's barely any crossover between the Big Sky teams in the Mountain and Pacific time zones and the MVFC teams. I think South Dakota and UC Davis played last year?

Big Sky got Southern Utah, Northern Arizona, Montana and Eastern Washington in the playoff bracket. MVFC got NDSU and SDSU in.

SDSU went to Northern AZ and beat NAU. Then they went to EWU and got smoked. That's it for games between the conferences. I won't acknowledge or accept analysis based on 2nd tier comparisons ("this team beat that team and that team played another team the next week", that type of garbage).

Montana needed a miracle to beat USD. The Big sky was a one trick pony last year. NAU, S Utah and Montana **** the bed in the playoffs!

[centennial]

Of course they do, and they're right.

Unfortunately, there's barely any crossover between the Big Sky teams in the Mountain and Pacific time zones and the MVFC teams. I think South Dakota and UC Davis played last year?

Big Sky got Southern Utah, Northern Arizona, Montana and Eastern Washington in the playoff bracket. MVFC got NDSU and SDSU in.

SDSU went to Northern AZ and beat NAU. Then they went to EWU and got smoked. That's it for games between the conferences. I won't acknowledge or accept analysis based on 2nd tier comparisons ("this team beat that team and that team played another team the next week", that type of garbage).
There is no need for that. The numbers are clear. The Big Sky is not equal to the MVFC in either football or basketball, even their basketball is poor in comparison to the summit. They had one significant team last year EWU. No one understands your logic anyway so I am not going to try.

[darell1976]

They played in the title game in men's basketball. That's above average.

They have work to do in football, but the Big Sky is on average the same as the MVFC.

- - - Updated - - -



Of course.

UND was one loss away from not being eligible for the CIT, if they would've lost to Sac St in the first round they would've had a losing record and you have to be above .500 for the CIT. UND basketball is far from above average..let me rephrase that UND men's basketball is far from above average, the women's are above average.

[darell1976]

What the Big Sky is the same as the MVFC? Not even Big Sky fans claim that. So let's get this straight- MAC is a step up, Slum Belt is a step up and Big Sky is equal? Is Pioneer an equal too? Is it true that you are a fan of the nameless university up north?

Both the Big Sky and the MVFC had 5 teams above .500 pretty equal to me. You have your big players, the SU's, YSU, UNI, and Illinois St, we have Montana, MSU, EWU, Cal Poly, and NAU. Pretty equal.

[clenz]

Both the Big Sky and the MVFC had 5 teams above .500 pretty equal to me. You have your big players, the SU's, YSU, UNI, and Illinois St, we have Montana, MSU, EWU, Cal Poly, and NAU. Pretty equal.

5 of 10 is not equal to 5 of 14 (or whatver the bug sky has)

what's your. Definition of big player? In.what world is NAU or Cal Poly a big player? NAU, even within it's own fan base is known as one of the biggest underachieving teams year after year

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[SDFS]

5 of 10 is not equal to 5 of 14 (or whatver the bug sky has)

what's your. Definition of big player? In.what world is NAU or Cal Poly a big player? NAU, even within it's own fan base is known as one of the biggest underachieving teams year after year

Sent from my S4 using Tapatalk so if there is typos deal with it.

Since this is a NDSU thread - I would image that would be "Championship" - so based on that definition you have:

Big Sky: EWU, ISU, UM, MSU, UND, UNC, and Cal-Poly
MV: NDSU, SIU and YSU

As you can see it not very close as far as depth goes... hey look no UNI image that.. didn't someone post something about underachieving

[centennial]

Both the Big Sky and the MVFC had 5 teams above .500 pretty equal to me. You have your big players, the SU's, YSU, UNI, and Illinois St, we have Montana, MSU, EWU, Cal Poly, and NAU. Pretty equal.
Not even close. Basketball- MVFC 11th, Summit- 17th, Big Sky- 25th (rpi)
Football- MVFC-16th (ahead of MAC west CUSA east) Big Sky - 25th again (saragin)
Even if these ratings aren't completely accurate the MVFC seems to be a step up in competition.

Since this is a NDSU thread - I would image that would be "Championship" - so based on that definition you have:

Big Sky: EWU, ISU, UM, MSU, UND, UNC, and Cal-Poly
MV: NDSU, SIU and YSU

As you can see it not very close as far as depth goes... hey look no UNI image that.. didn't someone post something about underachieving
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies

[344Johnson]

That's because you were too young to go to NDSU UND basketball games from the NCC days. One of the few regular season basketball games that meant something to NDSU fans back then.

But I understand why you're in such a rush to tell anyone who will listen that UND doesn't mean anything to you: you have Bisonville elders to impress. Maybe they'll make you a lieutenant in the family someday?

Only sayjng the SDSU games are the most fun. Im sure back in the day the UND ones were. Like I said.. There is a huge value in playing in the same conference.

Shouldn't you be banned or something?

[SDFS]

Not even close. Basketball- MVFC 11th, Summit- 17th, Big Sky- 25th (rpi)


Congratulations the Summit League has a very high strength of schedule. It does not mean that the conference is better than the others.

"Some feel that the heavy emphasis upon strength of schedule gives an unfair advantage to teams from major conferences. Teams from "majors" are allowed to pick many of their non-conference opponents (often blatantly weaker teams). Teams from minor conferences, however, may only get one or two such opponents in their schedules. Also, some mid-major (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mid-major) conferences regularly compel their member teams to schedule opponents ranked in the top half of the RPI, which could boost the strength of that conference and/or its tougher-scheduling teams. In basketball, the Missouri Valley Conference (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missouri_Valley_Conference) has successfully done this: It has become one of the top-rated RPI conferences, despite having very few of its teams ranked in the two national Top 25 polls."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rating_Percentage_Index

In addition, schools that play in smaller conferences have this same advantage over other mid-major conferences with more schools because they have more non conference games (against power conferences - if they choose). The Big Sky is going to have a higher RPI this year simply because they are adding another school (Idaho) and they are going to split into North/South divisions. The conference will not have a full round robin schedule. So, all teams in the Big Sky will have more non conference games and the conference will have a higher RPI. Does this mean the conference has improved...

[centennial]

Congratulations the Summit League has a very high strength of schedule. It does not mean that the conference is better than the others.

"Some feel that the heavy emphasis upon strength of schedule gives an unfair advantage to teams from major conferences. Teams from "majors" are allowed to pick many of their non-conference opponents (often blatantly weaker teams). Teams from minor conferences, however, may only get one or two such opponents in their schedules. Also, some mid-major (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mid-major) conferences regularly compel their member teams to schedule opponents ranked in the top half of the RPI, which could boost the strength of that conference and/or its tougher-scheduling teams. In basketball, the Missouri Valley Conference (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missouri_Valley_Conference) has successfully done this: It has become one of the top-rated RPI conferences, despite having very few of its teams ranked in the two national Top 25 polls."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rating_Percentage_Index

In addition, schools that play in smaller conferences have this same advantage over other mid-major conferences with more schools because they have more non conference games (against power conferences - if they choose). The Big Sky is going to have a higher RPI this year simply because they are adding another school (Idaho) and they are going to split into North/South divisions. The conference will not have a full round robin schedule. So, all teams in the Big Sky will have more non conference games and the conference will have a higher RPI. Does this mean the conference has improved...
That is all good but you have to win your games against difficult opponents. Furthermore, even on Sagarin the summit is rated 16th and the Big Sky 28th. Summit is a mid to low major conference and Big Sky isn't even considered a low major. The 6th place MVC team would be favorites to win the Big Sky and possibly a 3-4th place from Summit. These are just cold hard facts.

[clenz]

The MVC emphasis on a strong OOC isnt about rpi. It's about preparing teams for conference play, forcing teams to get better and earninf poat season bids. The MVC teams do quite well against said schedules too. It has also produced a S16 team 6 times in the last decade, and a about 6 more round of 32 teams




But yeah, the MVC doesn't deserve credit as a top flight conference because we don't gwt enough teams in the top 25.....


SMH

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[SDFS]

That is all good but you have to win your games against difficult opponents. Furthermore, even on Sagarin the summit is rated 16th and the Big Sky 28th. Summit is a mid to low major conference and Big Sky isn't even considered a low major. The 6th place MVC team would be favorites to win the Big Sky and possibly a 3-4th place from Summit. These are just cold hard facts.

No double the MV basketball conference is at a higher level than both the Summit and Big Sky. I just don't get the Summit is better than the Big Sky crap spewed by NDSU fans around here. UND has more than held there own with the top teams in the Summit League the last couple of years..

[SDFS]

That is all good but you have to win your games against difficult opponents. .

No you don't and that is the point - only 1/4 of the RPI is based on your own winning percentage. 3/4 of the RPI is based on the opponents and opponent's opponent winning percentage. If you happen to win 1 or 2 that is gravy. You are better off losing against a P5 team than winning against a lower mid major team.

[clenz]

No double the MV basketball conference is at a higher level than both the Summit and Big Sky. I just don't get the Summit is better than the Big Sky crap spewed by NDSU fans around here. UND has more than held there own with the top teams in the Summit League the last couple of years..
When your conference is rated 25 out of 31 its much worsw than 16 of 31

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[SDFS]

When your conference is rated 25 out of 31 its much worsw than 16 of 31

Sent from my S4 using Tapatalk so if there is typos deal with it.

As I have said before a conference that has to play 14 conference games vs a conference with 20 conference games has a significant advantage in the RPI formula. If you don't understand the math its OK, I won't push it anymore. But, the Big Sky conference has seen this issue and it has been a topic the two years at conference meetings. Part of the plan to address it moving forward is to have two divisions North and South (North - UM, MSU, UND, UNC, UI and EWU - South - ISU, PSU, WSU, Sac St, SUU and NAU). Play H/A within the division and play each team outside the division once for a total of 16 games. This is going to have a major impact on the conference RPI next year. Again, has the conference really improved or are they just manipulating the formula just like other conferences.

NOTE: I think that the Summit has ORU coming back next year. So, they will be a 9 team conference if they play a full round robin schedule they with have 16 conference games. It will be interesting to see the changes in the RPI between the two conferences next year.

[clenz]

What conference plays 20 conference games?

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[centennial]

No double the MV basketball conference is at a higher level than both the Summit and Big Sky. I just don't get the Summit is better than the Big Sky crap spewed by NDSU fans around here. UND has more than held there own with the top teams in the Summit League the last couple of years..
Circumstantial evidence. The best win for all of big sky was a bad game from NDSU. The ratings are in front of you. You can choose to ignore them and make up rhetoric. The numbers don't lie. When has the big sky ever not been last seed. The big sky is not in the same league as both MVC and Summit.

[SDFS]

What conference plays 20 conference games?

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The Big Sky has had 20 game conference season for the past two years. I believe that Summit had 14 games last year because they had 8 members.

[clenz]

The Big Sky has had 20 game conference season for the past two years. I believe that Summit had 14 games last year because they had 8 members.
So when the B10 goes to 20 their rpi will plummet... Right?

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[NoDak 4 Ever]

Are we seriously arguing the Big ****ing Sky's basketball legitimacy?


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[SDFS]

Circumstantial evidence. The best win for all of big sky was a bad game from NDSU. The ratings are in front of you. You can choose to ignore them and make up rhetoric. The numbers don't lie. When has the big sky ever not been last seed. The big sky is not in the same league as both MVC and Summit.

Are you MPLS_BISONS kid?? I have nothing for you - but next year is going to be fun - the BUTRPI is going to be hilarious.

[centennial]

Are you MPLS_BISONS kid?? I have nothing for you - but next year is going to be fun - the BUTRPI is going to be hilarious.
Nothing is going to change. Also don't relate me with mpls. He seems to think big sky, mvfc and pioneer are on the same level. Your precious UND will still be ****ty team at football and basketball next year. Your greatest accomplishment being beating NDSU. I'll take the three NC's, big dance win, NCAA baseball tournament etc over your ****ty school any day. Perhaps you didn't realize that even outside RPI your conference is one of the worst in the country at basketball. That great education didn't teach you how to form coherent arguments or you are willfully ignorant by the hate you feel for NDSU.

[darell1976]

Nothing is going to change. Your precious UND will still be ****ty team at football and basketball next year. Your greatest accomplishment being beating NDSU. I'll take the three NC's, big dance win, NCAA baseball tournament etc over your ****ty school any day.

Nothing is going to change? Is that what was said after NDSU posted the exact record as UND in their second year of being playoff eligible (3-8)?

[centennial]

Nothing is going to change? Is that what was said after NDSU posted the exact record as UND in their second year of being playoff eligible (3-8)?
I mean with RPI. 1 extra team joining the conference will not significantly change RPI or rankings for your conference. No one has claimed that we will be as good as last year but claiming that NDSU is the only reason for the conferences being strong doesn't make sense. Same with football the MVFC is not suddenly going to a bad conference now that NDSU won't be as strong a team.

[darell1976]

I mean with RPI. 1 extra team joining the conference will not significantly change RPI or rankings for your conference. No one has claimed that we will be as good as last year but claiming that NDSU is the only reason for the conferences being strong doesn't make sense. Same with football the MVFC is not suddenly going to a bad conference now that NDSU won't be as strong a team.

NDSU goes down and UNI goes up shouldn't affect the RPI at least not much, I suppose it's the bottom teams and how they do, will USD, ISUb and MSU stay towards the bottom or will one of them sneak into the top core of teams, just like the BSC will NAU repeat their performance of last year or was is a one time thing. Will UND improve with a new coach? That's the beauty of the offseason lots of questions, and tons of guesses.

[Yotes]

I'm a bit late to the discussion here, but I still feel it's worth coming in anyways. USD is right on the verge of being a very formidable opponent in the major sports, which I understand is not usually true of the Yotes historically. Joe Glenn has built a very solid foundation for the football program, which is great in the short term, but I feel it will be ruined by the heir apparent within five years. In men's basketball I am confident we will be making trips to the NCAA tourney within three years, and our women's team has already jumped into the field of 64. I see no reason for NDSU to view us as any more than a standard conference opponent, what with football not worth mentioning and basketball only having one close encounter the last three years, but in the next two years the fans will realize we are here to compete. The administration at USD finally seems to be ready to succeed in athletics, and I really like what I have seen the last few years. We have fantastic coaches in place in many sports, and we are ready to make some noise at the D-1 level. We won't be winning NCs anytime soon (unless you count our individual NC in the pole vault), but the postseason is imminent in football and MBB.

[centennial]

NDSU goes down and UNI goes up shouldn't affect the RPI at least not much, I suppose it's the bottom teams and how they do, will USD, ISUb and MSU stay towards the bottom or will one of them sneak into the top core of teams, just like the BSC will NAU repeat their performance of last year or was is a one time thing. Will UND improve with a new coach? That's the beauty of the offseason lots of questions, and tons of guesses.
The point being, UND would have to fight harder for the same post season spots.In the last 3 years if UND were in the MVFC for football you would be expected to finish-
11th on 11 in 2013, 9th on 11 in 2012, 6th on 11 in 2011.
In basketball-
7th on 9 in 2013, 7th on 10 in 2012, 8th on 11 in 2011 in the summit.
Since summit is a 1 big league(maybe 2 in a really exceptional year) it really gives you no advantage. With MVFC we have less spots than the Big Sky for a more competitive up to down conference. Plus the eastern teams in the MVFC are against adding another Dakota team, I do think you could get into the Summit. UND's should try to dominate sky basketball(and get that 1 bid) and become a top 4 team in Football.

[FargoBison]

So brain dead sioux fans how does losing to a bunch of high majors work for the SWAC? OOC SOS was #9....They should be RPI kings according to your logic but oh wait I see them at #32 in RPI.

Do you people even realize the opponents you play the most are the teams in your conference, if they all have garbage records because they don't beat anyone in non-conference it is going to be difficult to build up or maintain that RPI come conference play.

Also the Summit had 10 teams a few years ago and an RPI of #16. I guess it can be done even when we are playing 18 conference games.

Tired of the excuses from UN_ fans....RPI..Kenpom and Sagarin all say the same...I guess they are all rigged against the Big Sky.

[clenz]

So brain dead sioux fans how does losing to a bunch of high majors work for the SWAC? OOC SOS was #9....They should be RPI kings according to your logic but oh wait I see them at #32 in RPI.

Do you people even realize the opponents you play the most are the teams in your conference, if they all have garbage records because they don't beat anyone in non-conference it is going to be difficult to build up or maintain that RPI come conference play.

Also the Summit had 10 teams a few years ago and an RPI of #16. I guess it can be done even when we are playing 18 conference games.

Tired of the excuses from UN_ fans....RPI..Kenpom and Sagarin all say the same...I guess they are all rigged against the Big Sky.
The MVC plays 18 conference games
The ACC plays 18 conference games
The Big 10 plays 18 conference games
The Big East plays 18 conference games
The American plays 18 conference games
The Big 12 plays 18 conference games
The Pac12 plays 18 conference games
The MWC plays 18 conference games
The SEC plays 18 conference games


How can their RPI's all remain high while play that many conference games? I mean, ****.

For reference, UND has played UNI 5 times in the last 4 or 5 years and UNI has won by an average of 23 points per game....

[darell1976]

The MVC plays 18 conference games
The ACC plays 18 conference games
The Big 10 plays 18 conference games
The Big East plays 18 conference games
The American plays 18 conference games
The Big 12 plays 18 conference games
The Pac12 plays 18 conference games
The MWC plays 18 conference games
The SEC plays 18 conference games


How can their RPI's all remain high while play that many conference games? I mean, ****.

For reference, UND has played UNI 5 times in the last 4 or 5 years and UNI has won by an average of 23 points per game....

And all but one game was before UND joined the Big Sky and was during transition. Congrats on beating a team from the Great West Conference.

[clenz]

That UND team is no better now than it was during that time....and it finished near the top of the Big Sky...

There's a reason I posted that.

[darell1976]

That UND team is no better now than it was during that time....and it finished near the top of the Big Sky...

There's a reason I posted that.

I think Brian Jones is on the hot seat, losing to one win SUU and losing in the CIT to transition Omaha isn't doing him any favors. I give you that UND isn't that great of a team but comparing us to UNI who has won in the dance isn't anything to brag about. We had the most wins by any new team entering the BSC in 2012-13, and almost made it to the conference championship, this past season they lost the championship to Weber State a known basketball school. I would like to know why you are comparing UNI to UND? UND is in it's third year of playoff eligibility and UNI has been DI for how many decades? No UND fan would compare the BSC to the MVC.

[SDFS]

I am sorry for the thread drift NDSU fans, I feel somewhat obligated to say congrats to the NDSU AD and best of luck at Iowa. If the mods want to move the contents of this thread over to a new thread in general sports forum. I would be more than happy to continue the dialog in the new thread. I did not think my comments would start such a **** storm. I am kind of surprised by this because I thought that many people knew about the flaws of the RPI. Here are just a couple of links that discuss the weaknesses of the RPI and how they are exploited by both major conferences and mid major conferences. In summary, I believe the Big Sky coaches based on news articles I have read have felt locked in by the 20 game schedule which hurt there RPI. Now that they are moving to a 16 games schedule, coaches will have greater control of the schedule and will be able to properly manage the schedule.

Here is a link that shows how ex-NDSU coach Tim M. managed the schedules to his advantage - again not saying this is a bad thing. In fact, I have no problem with it at all.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/luke_winn/09/27/schedule-strength/index.html

Here is a nice overview from a Kentucky website that talks in detail about the RPI with multiple examples:

NOTE: Here is the formula for power conference teams to exploit the PRI.



HOW TO BEAT THE RPI WITHOUT REALLY PERFORMING
---------------------------------------------

1) Play teams who have really good records, even if they're going to thrash you.
2) Duck teams who have really bad records, especially the weaker teams from the big conferences.
3) Stay at home.


http://www.bigbluehistory.net/bb/rpi.html

Actually, there are many articles out there about this subject. I find it very interesting.

[SDFS]

That UND team is no better now than it was during that time....and it finished near the top of the Big Sky...

There's a reason I posted that.

I am not saying the Big Sky is some major basketball conference. The point through all of this is that the top of Big Sky and Summit League are very comparable. Some years the Summit will be slightly better other years the Big Sky will be better. I base this mostly on the games that I have watched the last several of years. NDSU and SDSU have been the class of the Summit during the last 3 year period. UND has a 2-2 record against the eventual Summit League champion and (3-4) against NDSU and SDSU during that same time period. Yet, UND finishes tied for 2nd with three teams and loses in the conference championship game this year and finishes a distant 3rd and loses in the semifinals the year before. As I see it right now, SDSU and NDSU are the class of the Summit League and Weber St and Montana are the class of the Big Sky. UND has been much more competitive against NDSU and SDSU than they have been with Weber and Montana. In particular Weber St, they own UND.

Hell, Weber St lost it's best opportunity to make some noise in the NCAAs recently when Lilliard went pro early - what would have been his senior year - He was NBA rookie of the year. Weber St. still had a very good team without him.

Yet, somehow the Big Sky is some trash conference so far below the Summit League. I don't get it.

2013/2014
*NDSU @ UND - UND wins 95-77
SDSU @ UND - SDSU wins 77-70

2012/2013
UND @ *SDSU - SDSU wins 71-70 - this was a great game SDSU won on a last second 3 pointer
UND @ NDSU - NDSU wins 72-52 - NDSU dominated - UND had no answer without Huff and Brekke's career ended that night with an elbow to the head.

2011/2012
UND @ *SDSU - SDSU wins 92-54 - SDSU dominated - I think that the SDSU guard (Wolters??) rolled his ankle just before half. He did play in the second half, but the injury did slow him down.
SDSU* @ UND - UND wins 89-70 - UND returns the favor
NSDU @ UND - UND wins 59-54 - The year before NDSU blew UND off the court. I believe many were surprised to see UND win this game.

[SDFS]

So brain dead sioux fans how does losing to a bunch of high majors work for the SWAC? OOC SOS was #9....They should be RPI kings according to your logic but oh wait I see them at #32 in RPI.

Do you people even realize the opponents you play the most are the teams in your conference, if they all have garbage records because they don't beat anyone in non-conference it is going to be difficult to build up or maintain that RPI come conference play.

Also the Summit had 10 teams a few years ago and an RPI of #16. I guess it can be done even when we are playing 18 conference games.

Tired of the excuses from UN_ fans....RPI..Kenpom and Sagarin all say the same...I guess they are all rigged against the Big Sky.

I agree with your post, that is why it is about having out of conference games and playing the "right teams" in out of conference play. When you 20 conference games it limits your scheduling options.

[SDFS]

The MVC plays 18 conference games
The ACC plays 18 conference games
The Big 10 plays 18 conference games
The Big East plays 18 conference games
The American plays 18 conference games
The Big 12 plays 18 conference games
The Pac12 plays 18 conference games
The MWC plays 18 conference games
The SEC plays 18 conference games


How can their RPI's all remain high while play that many conference games? I mean, ****.

For reference, UND has played UNI 5 times in the last 4 or 5 years and UNI has won by an average of 23 points per game....

What do they all have in common - they are power conferences, see my previous post about the three rules. Most of those schools all play non conference games at home.

[clenz]

What do they all have in common - they are power conferences, see my previous post about the three rules. Most of those schools all play non conference games at home.
Have you looked at MVC schedules?

Sent from my S4 using Tapatalk so if there is typos deal with it.

[centennial]

Have you looked at MVC schedules?

Sent from my S4 using Tapatalk so if there is typos deal with it.
I don't have anything against SDFS but I don't agree with his circular logic. Yes, UND has played well against the Summit and far outperformed expectations against NDSU and SDSU. However, this does not mean that your league is the same as the Summit. Your same team was defeated my UNO, they were 6th in the Summit with an in conference record of 5-9. See how that works, circumstantial evidence doesn't really look at the big picture. There is a clear difference between the Summit and Big Sky. Both Sagarin and RPI prove it. I absolutely refuse to believe that another 4 OOC games will bump the Big Sky from 28th on Saragin and 26th on RPI to the mid teens. We can revisit this thread after basketball season next year. I still maintain that both the Summit and the MVFC are competitive upgrades to the Big Sky. When the Big Sky is ranked above both the Summit and MVFC, I will gladly concede that they are better.

[SDFS]

Have you looked at MVC schedules?


No, 6/7 of the 9 conferences you have listed are the power conferences and as I said "Most" of those schools play at home. I believe the Miles article with CSU (MWC) approach would show you the best approach for most of the MWC, MVC and American conference schools. Seriously, people why do you think schools and conferences hire consulting firms to manage basketball schedules. Basketball scheduling has turned into big business.

"To help avoid successive bad years, Slive has hired former NCAA tournament guru Greg Shaheen as a scheduling consultant for his conference. And every school has agreed to send its non-conference schedule to the league office for feedback/tweaking/outright rejection. “We want to make sure we play folks who help our schedule,” Slive said, likening the process to a stoplight. Some schools will get the green light on their schedules, some will get a yellow light, some will get a red – meaning stop and do it over. Cowardly scheduling contributed greatly to the SEC’s brutal 2012-13 showing. There were far too many games against the weakest teams in the nation, where even victories were detriments in the RPI. And far too many losses to teams from weak conferences."

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaab--sec-confronting-men-s-basketball-scheduling-issues-head-on-with-league-approval-process-232500614.html

I believe NDSU signed up or has a good working relationship with Gazelle group which has worked well for scheduling. Having a good team and the right type of schedule has paid big dividends for NDSU. Again, none of this is a bad thing.

http://www.gazellegroup.com/events/gotham/news/2013/gotham_130702.htm#.U6hw75RdV8E
NOTE: Hey mods can we move this thread – I have completely jacked this thread again sorry to NDSU fans and thanks for your patience.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

5 of 10 is not equal to 5 of 14 (or whatver the bug sky has)

what's your. Definition of big player? In.what world is NAU or Cal Poly a big player? NAU, even within it's own fan base is known as one of the biggest underachieving teams year after year

Sent from my S4 using Tapatalk so if there is typos deal with it.

You mean like UNI is?

Good lord you little MVFC fans sure love to get together and pretend you are all something you are not. The MVFC has one good team once in a long while so one trick pony should be the moniker of that one. As a football conference if you think the MVFC is really something it's because you are part of the conference and really don't mind lying to yourself.

"OH MY CONFERENCE IS SO TOUGH, EVERY WEEKS A GRIND, NO TIME OFF IN THIS CONFERENCE, IT'S A REAL SLOBBERKNOCKER, WE'RE PUNCHING EACH OTHER ON THE MOUTH EVERY WEEK, IF WE DIDN'T BEAT UP ON EACH OTHER EVERY WEEK WE'D HAVE TWO OR THREE NATIONAL CHAMPIONS A YEAR!"

It's no wonder that whiniest conference out there has some odd over valuation of themselves though. Sorry I'm a couple pages late but you SOB's are a constant source of humor with either the crying or the hubris in spite of how you have actually done against those you are so superior to. Funny stuff boys, seriously.

http://i.imgur.com/0RGkN1g.jpg

[citdog]

You mean like UNI is?

Good lord you little MVFC fans sure love to get together and pretend you are all something you are not. The MVFC has one good team once in a long while so one trick pony should be the moniker of that one. As a football conference if you think the MVFC is really something it's because you are part of the conference and really don't mind lying to yourself.

"OH MY CONFERENCE IS SO TOUGH, EVERY WEEKS A GRIND, NO TIME OFF IN THIS CONFERENCE, IT'S A REAL SLOBBERKNOCKER, WE'RE PUNCHING EACH OTHER ON THE MOUTH EVERY WEEK, IF WE DIDN'T BEAT UP ON EACH OTHER EVERY WEEK WE'D HAVE TWO OR THREE NATIONAL CHAMPIONS A YEAR!"

It's no wonder that whiniest conference out there has some odd over valuation of themselves though. Sorry I'm a couple pages late but you SOB's are a constant source of humor with either the crying or the hubris in spite of how you have actually done against those you are so superior to. Funny stuff boys, seriously.

http://i.imgur.com/0RGkN1g.jpg


HACK


xlolx

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Are we seriously arguing the Big ****ing Sky's basketball legitimacy?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

xlolx
I'm pages and pages back but this is the silliest **** I've seen in a while. Who gives a rats ass about bball anyway? Arguing about your RPI score as if it means something is another case of being the tallest midget...good for you...who gives a ****?

[ursus arctos horribilis]

HACK


xlolx

Exactly.

[gotts]

You mean like UNI is?

Good lord you little MVFC fans sure love to get together and pretend you are all something you are not. The MVFC has one good team once in a long while so one trick pony should be the moniker of that one. As a football conference if you think the MVFC is really something it's because you are part of the conference and really don't mind lying to yourself.

"OH MY CONFERENCE IS SO TOUGH, EVERY WEEKS A GRIND, NO TIME OFF IN THIS CONFERENCE, IT'S A REAL SLOBBERKNOCKER, WE'RE PUNCHING EACH OTHER ON THE MOUTH EVERY WEEK, IF WE DIDN'T BEAT UP ON EACH OTHER EVERY WEEK WE'D HAVE TWO OR THREE NATIONAL CHAMPIONS A YEAR!"

It's no wonder that whiniest conference out there has some odd over valuation of themselves though. Sorry I'm a couple pages late but you SOB's are a constant source of humor with either the crying or the hubris in spite of how you have actually done against those you are so superior to. Funny stuff boys, seriously.

http://i.imgur.com/0RGkN1g.jpg

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/500x/51518623.jpg

[SDFS]

I don't have anything against SDFS but I don't agree with his circular logic. Yes, UND has played well against the Summit and far outperformed expectations against NDSU and SDSU. However, this does not mean that your league is the same as the Summit. Your same team was defeated my UNO, they were 6th in the Summit with an in conference record of 5-9. See how that works, circumstantial evidence doesn't really look at the big picture. There is a clear difference between the Summit and Big Sky. Both Sagarin and RPI prove it. I absolutely refuse to believe that another 4 OOC games will bump the Big Sky from 28th on Saragin and 26th on RPI to the mid teens. We can revisit this thread after basketball season next year. I still maintain that both the Summit and the MVFC are competitive upgrades to the Big Sky. When the Big Sky is ranked above both the Summit and MVFC, I will gladly concede that they are better.

Lets be clear, I have never said that Big Sky is better than the MVC. I have maintained that Summit and Big Sky are very similar conferences with either conference being better than the other on any given season. As for your UNO reference, UND had just finished a rough stretch of games with lots of travel including a conference tournament. They had 3/4 starters out and then went on the road to Omaha. A team that had been resting for two weeks. I don't want to take anything away from Omaha they played a good game. But, they did not see the best team from UND. If you want to use this as your main point of reference that is fine with me. I have based my opinion on watching several games over multiple seasons. Again, NDSU/SDSU have all been good teams and I have watched a lot of Summit League games. I don't want to take anything away from them. But, I have been impressed with Weber and Montana in the Big Sky. They are very good teams also. I agree lets take a look at this in a couple of years and see how this plays out.

[IBleedYellow]

Last I checked this forum was about FCS Football.

I've been wrong before, though.

[darell1976]

Last I checked this forum was about FCS Football.

I've been wrong before, though.

FCS football? Where would you get a crazy idea like that. I thought it was about which 1 bid basketball conference was better.:D

[SDFS]

xlolx
I'm pages and pages back but this is the silliest **** I've seen in a while. Who gives a rats ass about bball anyway? Arguing about your RPI score as if it means something is another case of being the tallest midget...good for you...who gives a ****?

Sorry about that - please move as needed - my mistake - no more from me on this subject.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Sorry about that - please move as needed - my mistake - no more from me on this subject.

Nah dude I think it was clenzy that brought that stuff up and you were just following suit so I was busting his chops over it.

Srue it's jumped into some silliness but it ain't like I didn't wade on into it myself. xlolx

We're all good.:D

[AshevilleApp2]

Let's talk gun control!

[clenz]

Nah dude I think it was clenzy that brought that stuff up and you were just following suit so I was busting his chops over it.

Srue it's jumped into some silliness but it ain't like I didn't wade on into it myself. xlolx

We're all good.:DI wasn't the one that brought basketball/RPI up...I followed suit.

FWIW, the Summit is closer to the Big Sky in basketball than it is to the MVC.

[BisonFan02]

Not gonna lie....there's always something surreal about UNI fans propping up NDSU to show how tough the MVFC is... (Sorry clenzy) xlolx

[clenz]

Not gonna lie....there's always something surreal about UNI fans propping up NDSU to show how tough the MVFC is... (Sorry clenzy) xlolx
I've admitted I was as hard as any UNI fan when NDSU first joined the league.

HOWEVER,

You'd have to admit that I've taken my crow and have moved on like a man.

[BisonFan02]

I've admitted I was as hard as any UNI fan when NDSU first joined the league.

HOWEVER,

You'd have to admit that I've taken my crow and have moved on like a man.

Agree 100%....doesn't stop it from being at least a little bit funny though. :D

[centennial]

I wasn't the one that brought basketball/RPI up...I followed suit.

FWIW, the Summit is closer to the Big Sky in basketball than it is to the MVC.
It was probably me when I said the Summit/MVFC is competitive step up. After that it spiraled out of control when UND fans pointed that they beat NDSU at basketball.

[SDFS]

Last I checked this forum was about FCS Football.

I've been wrong before, though.

No, you are spot on - good luck this season.

[clenz]

It was probably me when I said the Summit/MVFC is competitive step up. After that it spiraled out of control when UND fans pointed that they beat NDSU at basketball.
That's probably what it was.

God damn NDSU fans.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I wasn't the one that brought basketball/RPI up...I followed suit.

FWIW, the Summit is closer to the Big Sky in basketball than it is to the MVC.

I have no idea which is closer to what and so forth as far as bball goes....it honestly has zero value to me so it's real likely I just jumped in and started running my mouth with zero facts on that front and only honed in on the football portion. Sorry bout the erroneous finger pointing.

[darell1976]

Ahh group hug everyone, it's all good. :)

[Grizo406]

is it

[clenz]

https://culturallydisoriented.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/2.gif

So, ursus is the dean, right?

I call Troy... And no none of you can be abed

Sent from my S4 using Tapatalk so if there is typos deal with it.

[clenz]

Seriously, only group hug i want to be involved with looks a lot like this

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-2XwdYeRSLRo/UBsWLJ9KPtI/AAAAAAAAFMg/vMhwJOKHyQo/s320/olympic-crush-brazils-womens-volleyball-team.jpg

And none of you are invited

Sent from my S4 using Tapatalk so if there is typos deal with it.

[MplsBison]

Are we seriously arguing the Big ****ing Sky's basketball legitimacy?


I never was.

Clenz misread my statement and started the completely worthless tangent.

[clenz]

I never was.

Clenz misread my statement and started the completely worthless tangent.
False.

You stated that playing in the Big Sky title game was above average, for UND.

Now, I suppose it's "above" average for the Big Sky. However, at that point the comparisons between the Big Sky/Summit/MVFC were already flowing. I simply pointed that that UND making that title game isn't really above average due to the fact the Big Sky finished a head of only the SWAC MEAC, Southern, America East, Big South, Southland, and Northeast conference last season and your average RPI is 242 (now I supposed UND being at 213 is above average again for the Big Sky...but again, comparisons being made elsewhere in the thread...The Summit was at 188 and the MVC 155...thank god we pulled Loyola in as they sure helped the freaking RPI with their 292. Again the 8th worst RPI in the MVC is just 3 spots from 3rd in the Big Sky and is solidly in 4th. That's a team that finished 12-19 (6-12))

Anyone find it shocking that it was MPLSBISON that caused the downfall of this thread?

[MplsBison]

False.

You stated that playing in the Big Sky title game was above average, for UND.

Now, I suppose it's "above" average for the Big Sky. However, at that point the comparisons between the Big Sky/Summit/MVFC were already flowing. I simply pointed that that UND making that title game isn't really above average due to the fact the Big Sky finished a head of only the SWAC MEAC, Southern, America East, Big South, Southland, and Northeast conference last season and your average RPI is 242 (now I supposed UND being at 213 is above average again for the Big Sky...but again, comparisons being made elsewhere in the thread...The Summit was at 188 and the MVC 155...thank god we pulled Loyola in as they sure helped the freaking RPI with their 292. Again the 8th worst RPI in the MVC is just 3 spots from 3rd in the Big Sky and is solidly in 4th. That's a team that finished 12-19 (6-12))

Anyone find it shocking that it was MPLSBISON that caused the downfall of this thread?

The only comparisons that were flowing were of the MVFC and the Big Sky ... in football. You know, this is a football forum.

Post #113, I made two statements:

1) UND men's basketball team being in the Big Sky tournament title game means they were an above average team in the Big Sky. That's a true statement.

2) Big Sky football is on average at the same level as MVFC football. That's a true statement.


No where was the MVC mentioned. No where was the Summit League mentioned.


You misread my second statement as saying that Big Sky basketball was at the same level as MVC basketball. Which is a stunning lack of comprehension, given that I used MVFC and not MVC.

The proof is in the pudding. Post #115 starts the downward spiral as you fell over yourself and pushed down a small child in a race to disprove Big Sky basketball relative to the rest of DI basketball - an argument I never made in the first place.


But nice try on the cop out. How disappointed were you when you went back to post #113 a little while ago and found that I actually never did compare Big Sky bball to MVC bball?

I even tried to give you a hint in post #119, but you must not have seen that one.

[centennial]

False.

You stated that playing in the Big Sky title game was above average, for UND.

Now, I suppose it's "above" average for the Big Sky. However, at that point the comparisons between the Big Sky/Summit/MVFC were already flowing. I simply pointed that that UND making that title game isn't really above average due to the fact the Big Sky finished a head of only the SWAC MEAC, Southern, America East, Big South, Southland, and Northeast conference last season and your average RPI is 242 (now I supposed UND being at 213 is above average again for the Big Sky...but again, comparisons being made elsewhere in the thread...The Summit was at 188 and the MVC 155...thank god we pulled Loyola in as they sure helped the freaking RPI with their 292. Again the 8th worst RPI in the MVC is just 3 spots from 3rd in the Big Sky and is solidly in 4th. That's a team that finished 12-19 (6-12))

Anyone find it shocking that it was MPLSBISON that caused the downfall of this thread?
No, its typical.

[centennial]

Post #113, I made two statements:

1) UND being in the Big Sky tournament title game means they were an above average team in the Big Sky. That's a true statement.

2) Big Sky football is on average at the same level as MVFC football. That's a true statement.


No where was the MVC mentioned. No where was the Summit League mentioned.


You misread my second statement as saying that Big Sky basketball was better than MVC basketball. Which is a stunning lack of comprehension, given that I used MVFC and not MVC.

The proof is in the pudding. Post #115 starts the downward spiral as you fell over yourself and pushed down a small child in a race to disprove Big Sky basketball relative to the rest of DI basketball - an argument I never made in the first place.


But nice try on the cop out. How disappointed were you when you went back to post #113 a little while ago and found that I actually never did compare Big Sky bball to MVC bball?
Can you stop talking about the Big Sky, your desire to play UND and how they are the same as MVFC and/or Summit. It feels like we are going around in circles. I know in your opinion MVFC= Big Sky and Sun Belt>>MVFC. We get it and are free to disagree with you.

[clenz]

The only comparisons that were flowing were of the MVFC and the Big Sky ... in football. You know, this is a football forum.

Post #113, I made two statements:

1) UND men's basketball team being in the Big Sky tournament title game means they were an above average team in the Big Sky. That's a true statement.

2) Big Sky football is on average at the same level as MVFC football. That's a true statement.


No where was the MVC mentioned. No where was the Summit League mentioned.


You misread my second statement as saying that Big Sky basketball was at the same level as MVC basketball. Which is a stunning lack of comprehension, given that I used MVFC and not MVC.

The proof is in the pudding. Post #115 starts the downward spiral as you fell over yourself and pushed down a small child in a race to disprove Big Sky basketball relative to the rest of DI basketball - an argument I never made in the first place.


But nice try on the cop out. How disappointed were you when you went back to post #113 a little while ago and found that I actually never did compare Big Sky bball to MVC bball?
Again...false.

The post you quoted read that UND would shift to a harder league when they were barely above average in their own league - which is true.

Also, UND moving to the Summit/MVFC (and the MVC had been brought up with UNI leaving the MVC for some ****ty remake of the NCC).

Again...nice try but you can't use one post in a bubble during a thread that had, up until that point 112 posts. Simply can't do it. Nothing that far into a thread is stand alone.

[MplsBison]

Cent you are absolutely just as guilty as clenz for the destruction of this thread, talking about Big Sky basketball when no one was arguing about that in the first place.

You can try a red herring scapegoat on me. But my last post was nothing more than putting clenz in his place. It was not trying to restart the conference comparison discussion. And I think you knew that too.

[clenz]

Cent you are absolutely just as guilty as clenz for the destruction of this thread, talking about Big Sky basketball when no one was arguing about that in the first place.

You can try a red herring scapegoat on me. But my last post was nothing more than putting clenz in his place. It was not trying to restart the conference comparison discussion. And I think you knew that too.
Putting me in my place?

A dip**** that has been banned more times than he has fingers putting me in my place?

Holy ****.

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/cf/cfe1e187cd5703d9d1513ae24937b4839e3a7f1c97972667f5 76b79a1b2874a6.jpg

[MplsBison]

Cent said "They are not shifting to a harder league when they barely average in their current one."

To that I responded correctly by noting they were above average in their league.


That's the end of that discussion. You took it upon yourself to go on a wild tangent about Big Sky basketball based on your misreading of that post and you took the thread down with you.

Good job. And yes I did put you in your place. How did it feel?

[FargoBison]

I don't have anything against SDFS but I don't agree with his circular logic. Yes, UND has played well against the Summit and far outperformed expectations against NDSU and SDSU. However, this does not mean that your league is the same as the Summit. Your same team was defeated my UNO, they were 6th in the Summit with an in conference record of 5-9. See how that works, circumstantial evidence doesn't really look at the big picture. There is a clear difference between the Summit and Big Sky. Both Sagarin and RPI prove it. I absolutely refuse to believe that another 4 OOC games will bump the Big Sky from 28th on Saragin and 26th on RPI to the mid teens. We can revisit this thread after basketball season next year. I still maintain that both the Summit and the MVFC are competitive upgrades to the Big Sky. When the Big Sky is ranked above both the Summit and MVFC, I will gladly concede that they are better.

4 more OOC games will have little impact if you don't win them, like I said see the SWAC. Great SOS but they beat nobody and it gets them nowhere besides pumping some money into their programs from money games.

I see lots of RPI ripping but hey Kenpom says the same thing and so does Sagarin. You have correlation with three different rating systems. Not sure why it is so hard for UND fans to say their conference sucked last year because that was reality. Meanwhile the Summit was only average, which is fine for the Summit I guess but yeah it isn't exactly the MVC.

[MplsBison]

4 more OOC games will have little impact if you don't win them, like I said see the SWAC. Great SOS but they beat nobody and it gets them nowhere besides pumping some money into their programs from money games.

I see lots of RPI ripping but hey Kenpom says the same thing and so does Sagarin. You have correlation with three different rating systems. Not sure why it is so hard for UND fans to say their conference sucked last year because that was reality. Meanwhile the Summit was only average, which is fine for the Summit I guess but yeah it isn't exactly the MVC.

Then again, no one was actually arguing that the Big Sky was a better basketball conference than any other Division I conference in the first place.

It was all clenz's mistake. So we can put it to rest now.

[Bisonoline]

Cent said "They are not shifting to a harder league when they barely average in their current one."

To that I responded correctly by noting they were above average in their league.


That's the end of that discussion. You took it upon yourself to go on a wild tangent about Big Sky basketball based on your misreading of that post and you took the thread down with you.

Good job. And yes I did put you in your place. How did it feel?

I see the asshat has again been firmly planted on your head. My god get over yourself.

[darell1976]

4 more OOC games will have little impact if you don't win them, like I said see the SWAC. Great SOS but they beat nobody and it gets them nowhere besides pumping some money into their programs from money games.

I see lots of RPI ripping but hey Kenpom says the same thing and so does Sagarin. You have correlation with three different rating systems. Not sure why it is so hard for UND fans to say their conference sucked last year because that was reality. Meanwhile the Summit was only average, which is fine for the Summit I guess but yeah it isn't exactly the MVC.

I see the SL = BSC, simply because each has 1 bid to the dance. No one is getting another bid unless the tournament goes to 100 teams. NDSU took their 1 bid and did an incredible job with it. Weber St nearly knocked off top seed Arizona. As for the rest of the teams in the conference there is always next year to get to the dance.

[Bisonator]

Is it football season yet????

xgiveadamnx

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

I'm a bit late to the discussion here, but I still feel it's worth coming in anyways. USD is right on the verge of being a very formidable opponent in the major sports, which I understand is not usually true of the Yotes historically. Joe Glenn has built a very solid foundation for the football program, which is great in the short term, but I feel it will be ruined by the heir apparent within five years. In men's basketball I am confident we will be making trips to the NCAA tourney within three years, and our women's team has already jumped into the field of 64. I see no reason for NDSU to view us as any more than a standard conference opponent, what with football not worth mentioning and basketball only having one close encounter the last three years, but in the next two years the fans will realize we are here to compete. The administration at USD finally seems to be ready to succeed in athletics, and I really like what I have seen the last few years. We have fantastic coaches in place in many sports, and we are ready to make some noise at the D-1 level. We won't be winning NCs anytime soon (unless you count our individual NC in the pole vault), but the postseason is imminent in football and MBB.

I like the positive attitude but USD will not be a conference title contender any time soon IMO. Glenn has been better compared to the last coach but their are 5-6 teams that are better right now. Maybe a top-5 finish once-in-awhile but I don't see consistent top-3 finishes and playoff appearances. Yes, USD had some nice wins last year but may of those 'close' wins could have also been 'close' losses also. We'll see. I could be wrong.

These teams will be tough this year in the conference: UNI, NDSU, SDSU, SIU, MSU, and probably Ill State. Can USD leap-frog some or all of these teams this year? How long will Glenn coach? Can USD win the recruiting battles against NDSU-SDSU-UNI?

The last 2 years the USD team I saw on the field was a longggg way from competing for the Valley crown. Both lines were not very good. I thought during last year's NDSU game that USD would come in with something to prove after getting pummeled the year before and they showed very little IMO. You can talk about injuries but NDSU had plenty last year also.....next man up!! Depth?

USD is a nice addition to the Summit esp the track teams but they have a long road in football IMO.

[clenz]

I like the positive attitude but USD will not be a conference title contender any time soon IMO. Glenn has been better compared to the last coach but their are 5-6 teams that are better right now. Maybe a top-5 finish once-in-awhile but I don't see consistent top-3 finishes and playoff appearances. Yes, USD had some nice wins last year but may of those 'close' wins could have also been 'close' losses also. We'll see. I could be wrong.

These teams will be tough this year in the conference: UNI, NDSU, SDSU, SIU, MSU, and probably Ill State. Can USD leap-frog some or all of these teams this year? How long will Glenn coach? Can USD win the recruiting battles against NDSU-SDSU-UNI?

The last 2 years the USD team I saw on the field was a longggg way from competing for the Valley crown. Both lines were not very good. I thought during last year's NDSU game that USD would come in with something to prove after getting pummeled the year before and they showed very little IMO. You can talk about injuries but NDSU had plenty last year also.....next man up!! Depth?

USD is a nice addition to the Summit esp the track teams but they have a long road in football IMO.
Let's not give MSU too much credit for the **** they pulled off last year.

They are MSU after all. No playoffs since 1989 or 1990, only 4 seasons over 500 since 1993 (3 @ 6-5 and 1 @ 7-4), 42% all time win% against MVFC teams (only teams over .500 against are Indiana State and Western Illinois and 5 of the wins against WIU have come the last 5 years when WIU fell from "respectable" to dog crap most of the time.)

Teams USD is behind in recruiting, expectations, respect, etc... NDSU, UNI, SDSU, IlSU, SIU, WIU (may have had a better record last year but WIU has playoffs in the last 3 or 4 years), MSU and YSU. They might be even with WIU and MSU. However, that's going to put you in a battle for 6th-9th each year.

Trending up right now but what happens when Glenn leaves? I know you believe the successor will continue the path but let's be realistic on it for a second. For USD to catch the teams a head of them it's going to take a couple more years of getting to 6-8 wins to start winning some recruits that SDSU, UNI and NDSU really want. It's going to take a couple years of 6-8 wins to get that fan base to a point that they won't bail as soon as a couple losses are strung together. It's going to take a couple years of SDSU/NDSU/UNI regressing a pretty great deal while USD is putting up 8-10 wins to actually get people switched from those three to USD.

Right now the ceiling for USD is 5th, in a season that sets up nicely for them behind NDSU, SDSU, UNI and SIU. If ISUr and YSU could ever get their **** together for a full season the ceiling for USD falls to 6th or 7th.

That could change but USD is WAY behind in football. You might have some close games, you might steal one against a top flight team (like UNI last season where it took USDs first team 2 OTs to beat UNIs second/third string at many positions) but let's not forget UNI is just a couple seasons off of throwing for 400+ yards in one half on USD and putting up 60 points in a half (maybe that was St Francis but those games mirror each other).

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Let's not give MSU too much credit for the **** they pulled off last year.

They are MSU after all. No playoffs since 1989 or 1990, only 4 seasons over 500 since 1993 (3 @ 6-5 and 1 @ 7-4), 42% all time win% against MVFC teams (only teams over .500 against are Indiana State and Western Illinois and 5 of the wins against WIU have come the last 5 years when WIU fell from "respectable" to dog crap most of the time.)

Teams USD is behind in recruiting, expectations, respect, etc... NDSU, UNI, SDSU, IlSU, SIU, WIU (may have had a better record last year but WIU has playoffs in the last 3 or 4 years), MSU and YSU. They might be even with WIU and MSU. However, that's going to put you in a battle for 6th-9th each year.

Trending up right now but what happens when Glenn leaves? I know you believe the successor will continue the path but let's be realistic on it for a second. For USD to catch the teams a head of them it's going to take a couple more years of getting to 6-8 wins to start winning some recruits that SDSU, UNI and NDSU really want. It's going to take a couple years of 6-8 wins to get that fan base to a point that they won't bail as soon as a couple losses are strung together. It's going to take a couple years of SDSU/NDSU/UNI regressing a pretty great deal while USD is putting up 8-10 wins to actually get people switched from those three to USD.

Right now the ceiling for USD is 5th, in a season that sets up nicely for them behind NDSU, SDSU, UNI and SIU. If ISUr and YSU could ever get their **** together for a full season the ceiling for USD falls to 6th or 7th.

That could change but USD is WAY behind in football. You might have some close games, you might steal one against a top flight team (like UNI last season where it took USDs first team 2 OTs to beat UNIs second/third string at many positions) but let's not forget UNI is just a couple seasons off of throwing for 400+ yards in one half on USD and putting up 60 points in a half (maybe that was St Francis but those games mirror each other).


Not arguing with this. My point was that many Bison fans and obviously Coyote fans think USD is right there to make the top-3 this year or in a couple of years. I think they have a long way to go to get ahead of UNI-NDSU-SDSU-SIU and a couple of others right now. Ya, they might be trending up but Glenn is no spring chicken and will not be coaching too many more years. The Coyote teams I saw the last 2 years were not very good.

The Valley will be a fun one to watch this year. IMO, NDSU will be ahead of UNI in the national polls but UNI will be the favorite in the local media and coaches polls.

[MplsBison]

I like the positive attitude but USD will not be a conference title contender any time soon IMO. Glenn has been better compared to the last coach but their are 5-6 teams that are better right now. Maybe a top-5 finish once-in-awhile but I don't see consistent top-3 finishes and playoff appearances. Yes, USD had some nice wins last year but may of those 'close' wins could have also been 'close' losses also. We'll see. I could be wrong.

These teams will be tough this year in the conference: UNI, NDSU, SDSU, SIU, MSU, and probably Ill State. Can USD leap-frog some or all of these teams this year? How long will Glenn coach? Can USD win the recruiting battles against NDSU-SDSU-UNI?

The last 2 years the USD team I saw on the field was a longggg way from competing for the Valley crown. Both lines were not very good. I thought during last year's NDSU game that USD would come in with something to prove after getting pummeled the year before and they showed very little IMO. You can talk about injuries but NDSU had plenty last year also.....next man up!! Depth?

USD is a nice addition to the Summit esp the track teams but they have a long road in football IMO.

USD can't beat out NDSU, SDSU or UNI for any recruits in the Dakotas, MN, WI or Iowa that those three schools have specifically targeted. Or only once in a blue moon.

What USD has to do is offer and get recruits that those three have not targeted and hope that they can be developed into equal or better football players than the recruits those three brought in.

That's the only way that an inferior program like USD can hope to compete against superior programs like NDSU, SDSU and UNI.


In the long term it's facilities, facilities, facilities. They have to build equivalent facilities to what those three have. That brings coaches and recruits in that can win against the more competitive teams.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

USD can't beat out NDSU, SDSU or UNI for any recruits in the Dakotas, MN, WI or Iowa that those three schools have specifically targeted. Or only once in a blue moon.

What USD has to do is offer and get recruits that those three have not targeted and hope that they can be developed into equal or better football players than the recruits those three brought in.

That's the only way that an inferior program like USD can hope to compete against superior programs like NDSU, SDSU and UNI.


In the long term it's facilities, facilities, facilities. They have to build equivalent facilities to what those three have. That brings coaches and recruits in that can win against the more competitive teams.


Agree.

Good post mpls.

[Bisonator]

Hey UNI fans what are your opinions of former UNI AD Rick Hartzell? He has apparently applied for the NDSU job.

[clenz]

Hey UNI fans what are your opinions of former UNI AD Rick Hartzell? He has apparently applied for the NDSU job.
Depends on who you ask.

We had decent crowds when he was here because he gave tickets away left and right for free...he also completely bankrupted our athletic department. Went from a nice surplus to less than nothing at one point right after he left.

Some love him - more seem to dislike him.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Depends on who you ask.

We had decent crowds when he was here because he gave tickets away left and right for free...he also completely bankrupted our athletic department. Went from a nice surplus to less than nothing at one point right after he left.

Some love him - more seem to dislike him.

Too old. Need someone younger.

[MplsBison]

He has also interviewed for the Eastern Illinois job, so he might not be available.

I suspect that the guy ultimately hired will not apply until right before the deadline, so as to minimize media attention.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Too old. Need someone younger.


This here.

I think better candidates will apply.

[BisonBacker]

This here.

I think better candidates will apply.

I think there will be more right before the deadline. I'm not concerned about his age so much as the fact he's been out of the biz for a while not to mention I'm not sold on his track record at UNI.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

I think there will be more right before the deadline. I'm not concerned about his age so much as the fact he's been out of the biz for a while not to mention I'm not sold on his track record at UNI.




This here!

I think there are better candidates that will apply.

[Twentysix]

Just wondering Bison fans, how is your relationship with USD? I am sure hatred towards them is less than SDSU, but has there ever been any "heated' games? I am sure the greatest win over them was probably the DII NC game, since USD hasn't had much success beating you guys in any sport (especially football), I can't think of a big win for them over you guys.

They are horrible at everything. They could maybe be a rival if they weren't horrible.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

They are horrible at everything. They could maybe be a rival if they weren't horrible.



USD has very good indoor and outdoor track teams. They are giving NDSU a run on the men's side.

Now in the case for football, USD needs to win consistently against the Bison in order to be a 'rival' in that sport.

[Twentysix]

USD has very good indoor and outdoor track teams. They are giving NDSU a run on the men's side.

Now in the case for football, USD needs to win consistently against the Bison in order to be a 'rival' in that sport.

Unfortunately I, and most others, will never care about a track rival. It would likely need to be a football, mbb, wbb, vb rivalry for me to care. It might eventually happen, but it hasn't yet.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Unfortunately I, and most others, will never care about a track rival. It would likely need to be a football, mbb, wbb, vb rivalry for me to care. It might eventually happen, but it hasn't yet.

I was responding to the "horrible in everything" comment. They do have some good programs.

[Pant8her]

I am amazed that this thread is still going on and on and on... xeyebrowx

[centennial]

I am amazed that this thread is still going on and on and on... xeyebrowx
We like to bicker.

[semobison]

Unfortunately I, and most others, will never care about a track rival. It would likely need to be a football, mbb, wbb, vb rivalry for me to care. It might eventually happen, but it hasn't yet.

One could argue that Track and Field at NDSU has been our most successful program. It is a shame that the younger generation has lost interest in T&F. When I was growing up it was one of the big 3 sports, along with football and basketball. IMHO track is probably just too much work for the younger generation.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

One could argue that Track and Field at NDSU has been our most successful program. It is a shame that the younger generation has lost interest in T&F. When I was growing up it was one of the big 3 sports, along with football and basketball. IMHO track is probably just too much work for the younger generation.



NDSU does have great track coaches.

The program that will really take a leap the next few years for the Bison is the wrestling program. Kish (coach) is a very good recruiter and the RFR class coming in is very good. Monk (165) placed 3rd this year and in the next few years there could/should be multiple AAs. Wrestling only gives out 9.9 schollies and not everyone can go to OK State, Iowa, Penn State or Minnesota.

[Yotes]

Unfortunately I, and most others, will never care about a track rival. It would likely need to be a football, mbb, wbb, vb rivalry for me to care. It might eventually happen, but it hasn't yet.
I agree. USD fans are obviously quite aware of NDSU, but until we have games against each other in football or MBB that actually move the meter there won't be any rivalry feelings. The MBB game in Vermillion this year was intense, and would have been an incredible win, but we lost in the final minute and then had an absolutely embarrassing return trip.