Does the FBS playoff system make FCS (and D2 and D3) football irrelevant?

[bonarae]

Over at CS.com there is a newly-created thread that discusses this. But I'm not sure if this belongs here or to the Other Sports forum.

My stand about this (for the people here only): What is the benefit of being FBS at all if your school (for the purposes of this thread, pretend that your school is already eligible for FBS bowls) won a mid-major conference title and you played against "weak" competition in the eyes of the committee? Nothing really. Only the big time schools (read: the long-standing FBS conferences and the tradition-rich schools) benefit from this.

Is it about time that D1 football needs to be reorganized? xchinscratchx

[RichH2]

Meaningless for us. FBS playoffs relevant only to the 5. Of course thats the point of current push for autonomy. At our level money is relevant but not the all consuming agenda as it is with the 5.

[bonarae]

Meaningless for us. FBS playoffs relevant only to the 5. Of course thats the point of current push for autonomy. At our level money is relevant but not the all consuming agenda as it is with the 5.

I misunderstood the main topic though when I first wrote the accompanying information in the original post.

Here's the information at present:
With the FBS P5 trying to distance themselves from the rest of the FBS, will the P5 playoffs make the playoffs of the other divisions/FCS irrelevant? I'm afraid to say that it will. xsmhx

[AggieManiac704]

To them, we're already irrelevant....let us continue doing what we're doing at our level

[citdog]

Actually the 4 team 'playoff' for the fbs only makes one group of teams obsolete. ALL those not in the SEC, ACC, PAC 12, and the Bigs are the ONLY schools playing football that have ZERO chance of winning a NATTY. SEE appy st, pigs ass, ga etc

[Saint3333]

Not sure it makes it any less relevant, but one thing I liked about the FCS championship was that it was the highest level of football that earned its title on the field. With a playoff at the highest level of college football starting next year the FCS can no longer claim that.

Some may argue it is only four teams but that is the number 1-AA started with and the FBS playoff will undoubtedly grow to 8 within five years. I believe the ideal number is 16 with a similar setup to the FCS pre-2011.

[smallcollegefbfan]

Not sure it makes it any less relevant, but one thing I liked about the FCS championship was that it was the highest level of football that earned its title on the field. With a playoff at the highest level of college football starting next year the FCS can no longer claim that.

Some may argue it is only four teams but that is the number 1-AA started with and the FBS playoff will undoubtedly grow to 8 within five years. I believe the ideal number is 16 with a similar setup to the FCS pre-2011.

The people in charge said there is either a 10 or 12 year (can't remember for sure) lock on the number staying at four. I imagine it could change but their current stance is that the playoffs will stay at 4 for at least 10 years and then they will re-evaluate it. I personally think we will see it grow earlier just because they will see the benefit and the fact that these playoff games at the FBS level will generate more interest and viewership than any bowl game has. Everyone at the FBS level has been clamoring for this and they finally have it.

This makes FCS less relevant in that people who have been claiming this as the highest level of championship football can't anymore but to be honest FCS has always been less relevant and will never be close because no money/interest in generated in fans outside of those who pull for the specific school.

Look at App State and Georgia southern this year. Each school alone has as much coverage as all of FCS in most mags and each school has just as much as an entire FCS conference has in the one or two mags that actually put some time in each league. When one Sun Belt, Conference USA, or MAC school gets as much coverage alone as the FCS National Preview then it shows you that probably 80% of the money spent by fans and revenue generated in general is from FBS games.

With that said, I have always been one to say that FCS, D2, and D3 football has good players. The issue with most fans is that Florida State had more starters who will get drafted from their 2013 National Championship team than all players in FCS combined. There just aren't teams loaded with star talent but there is a star here and there and then you have a team like NDSU who has 3-4 and they are dominating FCS. That's how most fans view it. FBS fans don't care at all about FCS just like SEC fans don't care what happens in the MAC unless they face a MAC team, which isn't often.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Not sure it makes it any less relevant, but one thing I liked about the FCS championship was that it was the highest level of football that earned its title on the field. With a playoff at the highest level of college football starting next year the FCS can no longer claim that.

Only if you believe Boise State isn't one of the Top 4 teams in the country.

[MplsBison]

To them, we're already irrelevant....let us continue doing what we're doing at our level

Exactly correct. With "them" being the national college football media.

They lump FCS, DII and DIII all together as the "minor leagues" of college football. ESPN throws us a couple bones to broadcast our championship games and that's about all anyone cares, other than fans and alumni of the programs.


That's how it was before the FBS playoff and how it will continue to be with the FBS playoff. No difference.

[MplsBison]

Actually the 4 team 'playoff' for the fbs only makes one group of teams obsolete. ALL those not in the SEC, ACC, PAC 12, and the Bigs are the ONLY schools playing football that have ZERO chance of winning a NATTY. SEE appy st, pigs ass, ga etc

The G5 teams had a very small chance of winning a national championship in the BCS and now in the CFP they have a slightly better, though still very difficult chance.

[smallcollegefbfan]

Exactly correct. With "them" being the national college football media.

They lump FCS, DII and DIII all together as the "minor leagues" of college football. ESPN throws us a couple bones to broadcast our championship games and that's about all anyone cares, other than fans and alumni of the programs.


That's how it was before the FBS playoff and how it will continue to be with the FBS playoff. No difference.

Exactly. The only difference is that now FCS is no longer the highest level of championship football and I would not be surprised if some who watched FCS playoffs because it was the highest level stop now and watch FBS, since it is now the highest level.

[MplsBison]

Only if you believe Boise State isn't one of the Top 4 teams in the country.

There are deserving teams left out of the FCS playoffs every season that technically could've run the table.

No difference there.

[MplsBison]

Exactly. The only difference is that now FCS is no longer the highest level of championship football and I would not be surprised if some who watched FCS playoffs because it was the highest level stop now and watch FBS, since it is now the highest level.

Is there a single human living in the United States that is eccentric enough to own up to a mantra of "I will only watch college football on TV if it a championship game that is the result of a playoff bracket and then only the championship game in the highest classification that uses such a system".

That would be a mighty obtuse person, in my opinion.


......... LFN??

[AmsterBison]

It'll certainly make bowl games irrelevant.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Is there a single human living in the United States that is eccentric enough to own up to a mantra of "I will only watch college football on TV if it a championship game that is the result of a playoff bracket and then only the championship game in the highest classification that uses such a system".

That would be a mighty obtuse person, in my opinion.


......... LFN??

I don't only watch FCS football on my TV and/or computer. But I don't watch the parade of crappy bowls from December 20th to the BCS championship game, either. I watch as much as the FCS playoffs as I can - and would probably watch more if the organizers would just do a tiny bit of coordination to stagger the games.

The second round of the FCS playoffs could be an all-day party, with games starting at noon and ending at midnight. (Think World Cup.) But since it's at the school's discretion to schedule times, instead you have one game at noon, five games at 3PM, one at 6PM, one at 7PM... there's no need for it to be like this. IMO.

Conversely, you couldn't make me watch the Hawaii Bowl.

[smallcollegefbfan]

Is there a single human living in the United States that is eccentric enough to own up to a mantra of "I will only watch college football on TV if it a championship game that is the result of a playoff bracket and then only the championship game in the highest classification that uses such a system".

That would be a mighty obtuse person, in my opinion.


......... LFN??

There are some casual fans who will tune in to FCS playoff games in the semis and the title game just to see the best teams play. I some football fans who said they watched FCS playoffs because its fun and FBS doesn't have one. With FBS having a playoff, I imagine some of those will go.

As for me, I have to watch all the games so either way it does not matter but I am glad FBS does have a playoff now. If they move to 8 or 16 teams and allow for non BCS conference schools to be included, then I will be very happy. There won't ever be 3 or 4 non BCS schools in a 8 or 16 team playoff but there certainly should be ways for the very top ones to get in and I don't think they should be held out. To me, the 8 best or 16 best teams should get in, regardless of conference. If the Big Ten has 3 teams that belong in the top 8, then put them in. I know some want to see someone from every conference but that isn't fair to the 2nd or 3rd best team in the Big Ten who steamrolled the MAC champ by 40 earlier in the year.

We need to see good competitive games in the playoffs. People just turn the TV off when games get out of control. However, if there is a MWC, Sun Belt, MAC, or C-USA team who is 11-1 or 12-1 or 13-0 and their only loss was to a top 10 team in a close game, then I think that team deserves a shot. There will always be a blowout at some point because of how teams matchup but as long as the talent gap is not too wide it will limit those blowouts and instead of 3 or 4 of them a year you may just see one game be a 3 touchdown game when you have 8 teams, unless one team is so much better than everyone else and they steamroll even the other BCS league champions because they have twice as much talent.

[Saint3333]

There are deserving teams left out of the FCS playoffs every season that technically could've run the table.

No difference there.

I disagree. No team outside of the top 12 has ever won the 1-AA/FCS championship, a fact that I used for years of why the playoff field should stay at 16. Now that the field is 24 there is no program that could win the championship left out.

[smallcollegefbfan]

I disagree. No team outside of the top 12 has ever won the 1-AA/FCS championship, a fact that I used for years of why the playoff field should stay at 16. Now that the field is 24 there is no program that could win the championship left out.

I thought that was the case but wasn't sure. It's a stat that shows why having 16 is enough. No team ranked #24 in the country has ever won the title, and if they ever do it's because those ranking the teams really got it wrong and I blame the voters more. With that said, voters never get it wrong that badly late in the year. The #10 team may win the title but you won't find #24 or #28 winning it. Those teams outside the top 10 usually don't quite have the depth and by the semis it catches up with them.

[Bisonoline]

It'll certainly make bowl games irrelevant.

They have already been irrelevant for quite some time. They only matter to the teams playing and their fans. And may be to the casual fan who want to see a good match up. Which doesnt happen much anymore.

[citdog]

appy st and pigs ass have made their bed and now have to lie in it for at least 12 years. in their backwater irrelevant towns will be played backwater and irrelevant football. sounds legit

[bojeta]

My personal opinion on the relevance issue:
1. Football is relevant in nearly any form.
2. My team is relevant wether they win a title or finish 0-12.
3. Playoffs are relevant because they provide an opportunity for teams from diverse geographic and/or institutional associations to compete, and determine who is best (barring intangibles).
4. Each level's championship is relevant because it shows the best, given the mix of factors they have to work with.
5. Bowls should be, and occasionally are relevant because they can, and sometimes do provide the players and fans with a reward for a season that may not be perfect, but still worth celebrating (not the case with 6-5, 6-6 teams going simply because their conference has a contract)
6. Bowls could be very relevant as part of the playoff system. Allow the semi-final games to be a major bowl game. Kind of like the NFC and AFC title games leading to the Super Bowl.

I HATE that money drives perception of relevance!! Don't get me wrong... I appreciate all the recruiting, promotion etc. It makes the game even more exciting, but if you really love football, you LOVE IT! It doesn't/shouldn't matter wether or not you had the cash to purchase the best raw talent in the country. I still root for my high school team which operates on a shoestring budget, and a total male frosh through senior enrollment of 150. They go 0-10 one year, and make it to the CIF title game the next... that's high school football :)
Also, I don't believe you have to be an alumnus to connect with a team and follow them. It helps A LOT, but isn't necessary. You should, however, follow a team because you feel connected, and not because they've purchased a winning machine. I barely watch pro sports anymore. When I do, it's generally because a fellow Cal Poly alumnus or two or three are playing or because it's one more reason to open a beer with friends.

[walliver]

Since the NFL has the Super Bowl, is there any luster at all to a FBS championship? Of course there is.

Why then should a FBS championship in any way lessen the FCS championship. I've heard the "highest level of football with an actual championship" talk ad nauseum. It sounded good on bulletin boards, but never translated into actual attendance or TV ratings.

The FBS tournament may expand from 4 teams at some point, but the purpose of such a move would most likely be driven by a desire to make sure each of the P5 has a participant, and maximize that chances of a second team from the B1G, SEC or PAC, not to help the G5. The playoff may go to 6, with an outside chance of 8, but will go no further. An expanded playoff field would completely gut the current New Year's Eve/Day bigtime bowl games - a not inconsequential source of income (unlike the pre-Christmas bowls). Currently, half of FBS teams go to bowl games. They aren't going to throw that away just to add a few playoff spots.

FCS playoffs will continue to attract the same fans as before (basically fans of competitive FCS teams).

[Ivytalk]

Bojeta's post sums it up for me. My son played D3 football because he loved it -- really loved it -- and made friends that he'll have for life. You can't beat that!

[FormerPokeCenter]

I, personally, don't care about the P5 or whatever the large semi-pro football organizations are calling themselves these days...

I think FCS is and will continue to be relevant, in that the focus is on the student athlete. On balance, you don't have many FCS athletes declaring for the draft early. It's a different mindset in our league and - frankly - that's the way I like it...

Maybe we are irrelevant, but...let's face it...football, itself, is rather irrrelevant in the grande scheme of things....which is - I suppose - why we get so caught up in it...

Otherwise, we'd be forced to deal with the stark reality of the human condition...

[smallcollegefbfan]

appy st and pigs ass have made their bed and now have to lie in it for at least 12 years. in their backwater irrelevant towns will be played backwater and irrelevant football. sounds legit

Yes, you are right in that App and GSU are playing games that really don't matter in the grand scheme and Citadel has a much better shot at winning a national title (in theory) than those two schools.

Here is how they are looking at it though. The whole reason for teams moving up is to be cared about and have a seat at the table. ESPN gives better TV coverage to the Bowl game with the #2 MAC and #2 Sun Belt team than they do the FCS National Championship Game. More people watch the "toilet bowl" than they do FCS games. Pick up the preseason magazines and you see more media attention to #10 in the Sun Belt or #10 in the MAC than you do North Dakota State.

I'm reading Phil Steele Magazine right now and you see two pages on every team (from Alabama to Georgia State) but you don't see anything on NDSU, who just won 3 FCS NCs. Look at the attention App got in the mid 2000s. Ask anyone in FBS or outside of FCS what App State is best known for. You know what it is? 3 FCS titles? NOPE! It's beating Michigan. Michigan made App State more relevant than App or NDSU winning 3 NCs in a row.

I think it's obvious App and GSU care more about getting on TV, having a shot at more money, getting more media attention, and putting themselves in position to be in the #2 tier when schools are re-classified and not being in the 3rd tier, where FCS will end up. The Citadel won't be invited to move up but it sounds like you don't care and you would rather win titles in the 3rd tier than be a mediocre team in the 2nd tier. (I say 3rd tier because in 5-7 years that is what FCS will be).

With all that said, no matter what tier FCS ends up being I will not stop watching it. Not just because my job is to watch FCS prospects but the level of play here is fun to watch. I love seeing the underdogs make it in the NFL and have a good career. By the same token, I understand why teams move up and why some don't. You really can't fault them for wanting what they do and they can't fault Citadel for being happy where they are. App and GSU belong in the Sun Belt or C-USA while Citadel belongs in the SoCon. It is just where those schools fit. The SoCon replaced them with teams that belong in the blueprint for what SoCon leadership wants. Now that they are gone they have no reason to spy on the SoCon or be caught up in it and SoCon schools have no reason to hate on them. It's just 3 schools who are going their separate ways and that's fine.

[smallcollegefbfan]

Since the NFL has the Super Bowl, is there any luster at all to a FBS championship? Of course there is.

Why then should a FBS championship in any way lessen the FCS championship. I've heard the "highest level of football with an actual championship" talk ad nauseum. It sounded good on bulletin boards, but never translated into actual attendance or TV ratings.

The FBS tournament may expand from 4 teams at some point, but the purpose of such a move would most likely be driven by a desire to make sure each of the P5 has a participant, and maximize that chances of a second team from the B1G, SEC or PAC, not to help the G5. The playoff may go to 6, with an outside chance of 8, but will go no further. An expanded playoff field would completely gut the current New Year's Eve/Day bigtime bowl games - a not inconsequential source of income (unlike the pre-Christmas bowls). Currently, half of FBS teams go to bowl games. They aren't going to throw that away just to add a few playoff spots.

FCS playoffs will continue to attract the same fans as before (basically fans of competitive FCS teams).

I'm with you on this. FCS will still get attention. It will always be 2nd to the FBS and while some FBS fans now may stop watching the FCS playoffs, it won't be enough to make the FCS have to change things drastically to survive.

At the FBS level, you don't need more than 6 or 8 playoff teams. FCS was perfect at 16 and FBS will be perfect at 6 or 8. No team in FBS is going to win the NC outside of the top 8 (if those picking the field get it right) just like in FCS where no team has won the NC who was outside of #12. I wish FCS would drop back down to 16 or at least 20. There weren't any games of two teams who you know aren't among the top 20 in the country like you have now in the first round.

[smallcollegefbfan]

I, personally, don't care about the P5 or whatever the large semi-pro football organizations are calling themselves these days...

I think FCS is and will continue to be relevant, in that the focus is on the student athlete. On balance, you don't have many FCS athletes declaring for the draft early. It's a different mindset in our league and - frankly - that's the way I like it...

Maybe we are irrelevant, but...let's face it...football, itself, is rather irrrelevant in the grande scheme of things....which is - I suppose - why we get so caught up in it...

Otherwise, we'd be forced to deal with the stark reality of the human condition...

Might want to hold off on the "FCS players don't declare thing". That was the case but after this past season let's see if the trend continues that many of the top players come out.

Agents are now allowed to contact players at any time, since some were doing it anyway the NFLPA took away the rule to level the playing field. You have websites out there who proclaim they are helping small school players but in reality I'm hearing they are just pushing them to agents and telling players who are rejected by NFL teams that they can get drafted and are future NFL stars. Too many of the wrong people are reaching out to players and avoiding contacting SIDs and coaches, which is the appropriate channel for media to do. Some websites are trying to get in early and thus we saw several declare early this past year.

Here is the list of FCS early entries from this year and their status. FCS had 9 early entries and that number could be close to the same this year, unless something is done.



RB

Isaiah
Crowell
Alabama State
Combine invite, free agent deal with Browns



WR

Jamel
Johnson
Alabama State
Undrafted, tryout with Tampa Bay


FS

Nick
Addison
Bethune-Cookman
Undrafted, tryout with Houston


OT

Terrance
Hackney
Bethune-Cookman

Nothing still


RB

John
Spooney
Brown
Undrafted, tryout with Ravens


FS

Pierre
Warren
Jacksonville State
Undrafted, signed with Saints


TE

Nic
Jacobs
McNeese State
Combine invite, free agent deal with Saints


TE

A.C.
Leonard
Tennessee State
Combine invite, free agent deal with Vikings


RB

Terrance
West
Towson
3rd round pick by Browns

[Saint3333]

Smallfootball, that's just citdog's thing. He knows everything you said above to be true, he's just having fun.

You did crack me up when you mentioned Citadel and winning titles in the same sentence though, you aren't old enough to remember that ONE.

[smallcollegefbfan]

Smallfootball, that's just citdog's thing. He knows everything you said above to be true, he's just having fun.

You did crack me up when you mentioned Citadel and winning titles in the same sentence though, you aren't old enough to remember that ONE.

I don't think many people are old enough to remember that LOL. I'm just saying that technically they can but in reality military schools never will because of how hard it is to recruit. There are probably 200 kids a year who have the grades and enough talent to get in the Citadel that they would have a shot at but turn it down for Furman, Newberry, CSU, etc just because of the military lifestyle. It's just how it is. That's why it is a huge accomplishment if VMI or The Citadel ever wins 6-8 games in a season. It is very hard to win at those programs and as long as they can win 3-6 games a year, a head coach at those schools should not lose his job unless most of their losses are bad blowouts, poor team conduct, players not graduating, etc.

[JayJ79]

It'll certainly make bowl games irrelevant.

most bowl games were at that level of "irrelevant" already.

[MplsBison]

My personal opinion on the relevance issue:
1. Football is relevant in nearly any form.
2. My team is relevant wether they win a title or finish 0-12.
3. Playoffs are relevant because they provide an opportunity for teams from diverse geographic and/or institutional associations to compete, and determine who is best (barring intangibles).
4. Each level's championship is relevant because it shows the best, given the mix of factors they have to work with.
5. Bowls should be, and occasionally are relevant because they can, and sometimes do provide the players and fans with a reward for a season that may not be perfect, but still worth celebrating (not the case with 6-5, 6-6 teams going simply because their conference has a contract)
6. Bowls could be very relevant as part of the playoff system. Allow the semi-final games to be a major bowl game. Kind of like the NFC and AFC title games leading to the Super Bowl.

I HATE that money drives perception of relevance!! Don't get me wrong... I appreciate all the recruiting, promotion etc. It makes the game even more exciting, but if you really love football, you LOVE IT! It doesn't/shouldn't matter wether or not you had the cash to purchase the best raw talent in the country. I still root for my high school team which operates on a shoestring budget, and a total male frosh through senior enrollment of 150. They go 0-10 one year, and make it to the CIF title game the next... that's high school football :)
Also, I don't believe you have to be an alumnus to connect with a team and follow them. It helps A LOT, but isn't necessary. You should, however, follow a team because you feel connected, and not because they've purchased a winning machine. I barely watch pro sports anymore. When I do, it's generally because a fellow Cal Poly alumnus or two or three are playing or because it's one more reason to open a beer with friends.

I suspect that TV networks for the most part know that almost every college football game that is televised relies on your #2 to gain viewership.

[AmsterBison]

most bowl games were at that level of "irrelevant" already.

How about this? The bowl games will become even less relevant. Right now, many fans think that a bowl game signifies a winner, but once they institute a playoff, even the most clueless fans will recognize bowl games as the mark of "not good enough to make the playoffs."

If anything, having only 3 or 7 postseason games that matter in the BCS would make the FCS, D2, and D3 playoffs more relevant.

[MplsBison]

Since the NFL has the Super Bowl, is there any luster at all to a FBS championship? Of course there is.

Why then should a FBS championship in any way lessen the FCS championship. I've heard the "highest level of football with an actual championship" talk ad nauseum. It sounded good on bulletin boards, but never translated into actual attendance or TV ratings.

The FBS tournament may expand from 4 teams at some point, but the purpose of such a move would most likely be driven by a desire to make sure each of the P5 has a participant, and maximize that chances of a second team from the B1G, SEC or PAC, not to help the G5. The playoff may go to 6, with an outside chance of 8, but will go no further. An expanded playoff field would completely gut the current New Year's Eve/Day bigtime bowl games - a not inconsequential source of income (unlike the pre-Christmas bowls). Currently, half of FBS teams go to bowl games. They aren't going to throw that away just to add a few playoff spots.

FCS playoffs will continue to attract the same fans as before (basically fans of competitive FCS teams).

It would be very easy to expand the CFP to an 8 team bracket without having to come up with any additional infrastructure.

There are six CFP bowls - Rose, Fiesta, Cotton, Sugar, Peach, Orange - and six games would precede the championship (which is already bid out to host as a separate entity).

The top seven teams in the rankings along with the champion from the G5 (getting the #8 seed automatically) would then be grouped into the four quarter final bowls as best possible to preserve conference tie-ins. And most likely the conference champion from each P5 will qualify for the bracket anyway, plus the G5 best and then two more at-larges.

So then it wouldn't be very difficult to always schedule the B1G champion vs. the PAC champion in the Rose bowl quarter final game every year. Likewise with the Big XII and SEC champion in the Sugar bowl quarter final game. ACC champ always in the Orange. Then depending which conference the G5 champ comes from, put that team either in the Orange or the Fiesta and the two at-larges fill the remaining spots. The Cotton and Peach could be the semi-final games every year.

Would work out pretty slick actually. Wouldn't surprise me if the CFP converts to this after the first six year cycle is a complete and a resounding success.

[MplsBison]

How about this? The bowl games will become even less relevant. Right now, many fans think that a bowl game signifies a winner, but once they institute a playoff, even the most clueless fans will recognize bowl games as the mark of "not good enough to make the playoffs."

If anything, having only 3 or 7 postseason games that matter in the BCS would make the FCS, D2, and D3 playoffs more relevant.

For the most part, bowl games are already only relevant to the two fan bases in the game. Just like the FCS championship is only relevant to the two fan bases in the game. That's why bowl games have better TV ratings than the FCS championship game, as usually the FBS school fan bases are simply larger in population.

[walliver]

I don't think many people are old enough to remember that LOL. I'm just saying that technically they can but in reality military schools never will because of how hard it is to recruit. There are probably 200 kids a year who have the grades and enough talent to get in the Citadel that they would have a shot at but turn it down for Furman, Newberry, CSU, etc just because of the military lifestyle. It's just how it is. That's why it is a huge accomplishment if VMI or The Citadel ever wins 6-8 games in a season. It is very hard to win at those programs and as long as they can win 3-6 games a year, a head coach at those schools should not lose his job unless most of their losses are bad blowouts, poor team conduct, players not graduating, etc.

You listed 4 very different schools, and you even listed "grades" and "Newberry" in the same sentence.xrotatehx

The problem at the Citadel has traditionally been retention, not recruiting. Yes, there are people turned off by the whole playing soldier thing, but a significant problem has been kids who think they can tough it out and either find that they can't (or won't). The Bulldogs do actually have some success recruiting against FU and Wofford. CSU is a step below, athletically and academically, and brings the Southern Baptist lifestyle into play. ... Newberry is for people who can't get into Presbyterian.

The Citadel has long been competitive in baseball, but lately all sports have been down somewhat (and basketball has always been bad).

[AshevilleApp2]

There is always something to be said at being the best at what you do. Classifications don't much matter to me.

[Apps03]

There is always something to be said at being the best at what you do. Classifications don't much matter to me.

Sometimes I wonder if you're in my head, posting exactly what I'm thinking. Well, with the exception of the Western helmet. Mine would be a FU helmet.

As for the topic at hand, I don't think anything the FBS does makes FCS less relevant. I agree with those that say FCS is relevant to those that went to those schools or have some other connection. It never was relevant to anyone else and that's fine. I personally believe the FCS model is better, its what college sports started as, and would still be if not over run with greed. That's why FCS will always be relevant.

[Bisonoline]

Over at CS.com there is a newly-created thread that discusses this. But I'm not sure if this belongs here or to the Other Sports forum.

My stand about this (for the people here only): What is the benefit of being FBS at all if your school (for the purposes of this thread, pretend that your school is already eligible for FBS bowls) won a mid-major conference title and you played against "weak" competition in the eyes of the committee? Nothing really. Only the big time schools (read: the long-standing FBS conferences and the tradition-rich schools) benefit from this.

Is it about time that D1 football needs to be reorganized? xchinscratchx

For fans FCS, D2 and D3 the big boy play off wont make those divisions irrelevant. They will still be fans.

[citdog]

Smallfootball, that's just citdog's thing. He knows everything you said above to be true, he's just having fun.

You did crack me up when you mentioned Citadel and winning titles in the same sentence though, you aren't old enough to remember that ONE.

1961 and 1992 SoCon Champs. We are due for another pretty soon.

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Smallfootball, that's just citdog's thing. He knows everything you said above to be true, he's just having fun.

You did crack me up when you mentioned Citadel and winning titles in the same sentence though, you aren't old enough to remember that ONE.

1961 and 1992 SoCon Champs. We are due for another pretty soon.

[citdog]

You listed 4 very different schools, and you even listed "grades" and "Newberry" in the same sentence.xrotatehx

The problem at the Citadel has traditionally been retention, not recruiting. Yes, there are people turned off by the whole playing soldier thing, but a significant problem has been kids who think they can tough it out and either find that they can't (or won't). The Bulldogs do actually have some success recruiting against FU and Wofford. CSU is a step below, athletically and academically, and brings the Southern Baptist lifestyle into play. ... Newberry is for people who can't get into Presbyterian.

The Citadel has long been competitive in baseball, but lately all sports have been down somewhat (and basketball has always been bad).


Put your knob recruits through this for 9 months and see how many you can retain.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk73pIQaDi4

[clenz]

I'm not going to waste me time reading the drivel already posted....my thoughts on it


It doesn't make the FCS, D2 or D3 (or NAIA) any more irrelevant that it already was. Those who cared will still care. Those who didn't care still won't care. Those who were meh are still going to be meh.

[MplsBison]

I'm not going to waste me time reading the drivel already posted....my thoughts on it


It doesn't make the FCS, D2 or D3 (or NAIA) any more irrelevant that it already was. Those who cared will still care. Those who didn't care still won't care. Those who were meh are still going to be meh.

As simple as it gets right there. Correct, sir.

[SUPharmacist]

That's why bowl games have better TV ratings than the FCS championship game, as usually the FBS school fan bases are simply larger in population.

That and more gambling on bowl games.