Low NFL Draft Numbers Does Not Spell Doom For SWAC, MEAC Football

[bluedog]

Another day and another article has been penned reinforcing the notion that HBCU football is dying.
According to the likes of former Jackson State standout Eddie Payton and Associated Press scribe David Brandt (http://www.clarionledger.com/story/sports/college/jackson-state/2014/05/26/jackson-state/9615751/), no players from the SWAC or MEAC being taken in the 2014 NFL Draft means everyone connected with these conferences should be looking to get their affairs in order to prepare for the impending closure of these institutions as a result.

READ (http://www.tspnsports.com/2014/05/28/low-nfl-draft-numbers-does-not-spell-doom-for-swac-meac-football.htm)

[PaladinFan]

I might be wrong, but there were no players drafted from University of Texas. I don't think they are dying.

[smallcollegefbfan]

Another day and another article has been penned reinforcing the notion that HBCU football is dying.
According to the likes of former Jackson State standout Eddie Payton and Associated Press scribe David Brandt (http://www.clarionledger.com/story/sports/college/jackson-state/2014/05/26/jackson-state/9615751/), no players from the SWAC or MEAC being taken in the 2014 NFL Draft means everyone connected with these conferences should be looking to get their affairs in order to prepare for the impending closure of these institutions as a result.

READ (http://www.tspnsports.com/2014/05/28/low-nfl-draft-numbers-does-not-spell-doom-for-swac-meac-football.htm)

That's funny. Just means the NFL talent in the leagues are down. There were some good players in the SWAC this past year but they either had off field issues or just lacked enough speed to get drafted.

As for the MEAC, I know for a fact at least 2 MEAC players are expected to get drafted as of right now in 2015. If that happens, what will they say then?

[bluedog]

That's funny. Just means the NFL talent in the leagues are down. There were some good players in the SWAC this past year but they either had off field issues or just lacked enough speed to get drafted.

As for the MEAC, I know for a fact at least 2 MEAC players are expected to get drafted as of right now in 2015. If that happens, what will they say then?

Just where do you folks get this stuff from?

[superman7515]

Just where do you folks get this stuff from?

He works for the big boys, he knows what he's saying.

[bluedog]

He works for the big boys, he knows what he's saying.

Oh since you put it that way, that explains everything. xrolleyesx

[smallcollegefbfan]

Just where do you folks get this stuff from?

Well, for example.

The best player in the SWAC this year was Isaiah Crowell, at least in terms of NFL stock. His off field issues are public knowledge. He would have been a mid round pick if not for the history of poor character choices. I'm not bashing him or saying he is a bad kid. Just stating that based on what I was told and what is publicly known about his past. He was dismissed from Georgia.

I know the agent for Southern TE Rashaun Allen was touting him as a draft pick and Gil Brandt said he may but Allen has some concerns, not public like those of Crowell. Indeed, there are some concerns with him, according to people I talked with. He's a good athlete. Just has that "character flag" next to his name. He also didn't put up quite enough production to overcome that either.

Another one is Southern WR Lee Doss. Doss simply was not considered big enough, strong enough, and fast enough (speed based on his size and strength, not in general). Doss can run pretty well but would have needed a better pro day workout to get drafted. He ran a mid 4.5 at 6'1, 178 pounds. If he had ran a 4.3 I think he maybe sneaks into the 7th round.

Alabama State punter Bobby Wenzig just didn't quite have a good enough year to get drafted.

Jackson State CB Qua Cox was a PFA with enough buzz to sneak into the draft with a good pro day but at just 5'9 5/8, 178 pounds he ran a 4.56 and 4.63 in the 40-yard dash. He really needed to be 190 and run a 4.4 to have a good shot at getting drafted. He also didn't do that well when called up to the Senior Bowl. The Senior Bowl should have taken Brandon Dixon over him when they needed someone late.

Those were the only SWAC players who got any hype or buzz at all in NFL circles.

Right now I have 6 SWAC players on my list as a potential draftable guy for this coming year. I'm not saying all 6 will or are likely to but I have 6 players on my watch list who could potentially get drafted with a strong season, based on their current athletic ability shown on tape. I won't say who they are but there are 2 I really like and believe would be a great late round pick as of right now. They need a strong senior year but anything better than what they did this past year and the two I'm thinking of probably would.

I wasn't trying to put down the SWAC but simply explain it. The SWAC isn't going anywhere but right now just isn't producing much draftable talent, in the eyes of the NFL. The MEAC actually has a little better shot at a draft pick this coming season than the SWAC but both have some potential 5th-7th rounders.

[Yotes]

So, what you're saying is that the reason no SWAC players got drafted is because they aren't athletic enough? If everyone had better pro days they'd get drafted too.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The NFL draft is 1) an inexact science, 2) a horrible metric for "institution quality", and 3) varies so much year to year as to be utterly worthless as a yearly metric. Texas didn't have any drafted players this year. Does anyone honestly think Texas is a bad program because of that?

[bluedog]

Well, for example.

The best player in the SWAC this year was Isaiah Crowell, at least in terms of NFL stock. His off field issues are public knowledge. He would have been a mid round pick if not for the history of poor character choices. I'm not bashing him or saying he is a bad kid. Just stating that based on what I was told and what is publicly known about his past. He was dismissed from Georgia.

I know the agent for Southern TE Rashaun Allen was touting him as a draft pick and Gil Brandt said he may but Allen has some concerns, not public like those of Crowell. Indeed, there are some concerns with him, according to people I talked with. He's a good athlete. Just has that "character flag" next to his name. He also didn't put up quite enough production to overcome that either.

Another one is Southern WR Lee Doss. Doss simply was not considered big enough, strong enough, and fast enough (speed based on his size and strength, not in general). Doss can run pretty well but would have needed a better pro day workout to get drafted. He ran a mid 4.5 at 6'1, 178 pounds. If he had ran a 4.3 I think he maybe sneaks into the 7th round.

Alabama State punter Bobby Wenzig just didn't quite have a good enough year to get drafted.

Jackson State CB Qua Cox was a PFA with enough buzz to sneak into the draft with a good pro day but at just 5'9 5/8, 178 pounds he ran a 4.56 and 4.63 in the 40-yard dash. He really needed to be 190 and run a 4.4 to have a good shot at getting drafted. He also didn't do that well when called up to the Senior Bowl. The Senior Bowl should have taken Brandon Dixon over him when they needed someone late.

Those were the only SWAC players who got any hype or buzz at all in NFL circles.

Right now I have 6 SWAC players on my list as a potential draftable guy for this coming year. I'm not saying all 6 will or are likely to but I have 6 players on my watch list who could potentially get drafted with a strong season, based on their current athletic ability shown on tape. I won't say who they are but there are 2 I really like and believe would be a great late round pick as of right now. They need a strong senior year but anything better than what they did this past year and the two I'm thinking of probably would.

I wasn't trying to put down the SWAC but simply explain it. The SWAC isn't going anywhere but right now just isn't producing much draftable talent, in the eyes of the NFL. The MEAC actually has a little better shot at a draft pick this coming season than the SWAC but both have some potential 5th-7th rounders.

Thanks for the clarification, although I think 2/3 of it is politics. ( nothing directed at you)

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[citdog]

Thanks for the clarification, although I think 2/3 of it is politics. ( nothing directed at you)

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There is that excuse..........AGAIN.

[bluedog]

There is that excuse..........AGAIN.

Dude (if you're a dude) I don't even know you or have ever had any in depth conversation with you before.

Please keep your trolling comments to yourself.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk

[chattownmocs]

I don't get the Texas references. Yes, they are falling fast. The NFL draft is a major indicator and so is the fact that A&M, freakin A&M, is destroying Texas on the recruiting trail is a major indicator.

[citdog]

Dude (if you're a dude) I don't even know you or have ever had any in depth conversation with you before.

Please keep your trolling comments to yourself.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk

TRUTH hurts. It couldn't have been these players character that kept them out of the league it HAD to be something more sinister "keeping them down".

[bluedog]

TRUTH hurts. It couldn't have been these players character that kept them out of the league it HAD to be something more sinister "keeping them down".

The truth is you obviously are a troll with a low intellect, incapable of comprehending when someone doesn't want to be harass.

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[citdog]

The truth is you obviously area a troll with a low intellect, incapable of comprehending when someone doesn't want to be harass.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk

They were your comments. Defend them.

[bluedog]

Have a nice life Troll "CLICK"

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So that you are able to comprehend "CLICK" in layman terms means. Ignore button has been activated.

[citdog]

Have a nice life Troll "CLICK"

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It's just 'politics'.......

[smallcollegefbfan]

So, what you're saying is that the reason no SWAC players got drafted is because they aren't athletic enough? If everyone had better pro days they'd get drafted too.

I'm saying that the SWAC only had 3-4 players talented enough to be considered among the top 256 players in the nation and to be honest Crowell was the only one who I would have taken purely based on talent in that top 256. I think Doss is better than some players drafted (I think about 15-20 players who got drafted should be replaced by someone else). The SWAC has several really young players who will have a great shot to get drafted, as long as they don't have some major issues like Crowell did. I'm not picking on the SWAC with off field issues because SEC, Big 12, and others had a lot of players with off field issues. I've never seen a draft with so many players who have serious character flags who have the talent to go in the top 100-150.

[smallcollegefbfan]

Thanks for the clarification, although I think 2/3 of it is politics. ( nothing directed at you)

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk

Politics? How?

I can explain to you why the SWAC no longer has the talent it use to. There are 3 reasons that are 100% behind it.

1. SWAC doesn't get the talent it use to back in the 70s and 80s. The SEC lowered academic standards for the most part so many of the players who would have gone to the SWAC are now in the SEC.

2. Very few schools in the SWAC have great coaching staffs, leadership above them, and top notch facilities.

3. Players want to go where the facilities are top notch and schools put money into being better in football. Many SWAC schools put more focus on the bands and the classics that draw 50,000 people rather than putting money and energy in weight room and stadium improvements to attract quality players.

[walliver]

... I've never seen a draft with so many players who have serious character flags who have the talent to go in the top 100-150.

It's going to get worse. Too many schools have put winning over honor.

Johnny Manziel was getting paid for signing autographs and got suspended for one-half of a meaningless game, and then showed little class when he got into that game in the second half. Texas A&M did little.
Jameis Winston stole crab legs and gets suspended for a few meaningless baseball games, games he may well have not played in anyway. But will have no football consequences. He missed no playing time of any sort for the rape allegation. Unfortunately, this is rather common at FSU.
Auburn routinely accepts players who have been kicked off of other SEC teams.
North Carolina's recent sins have been well publicized.
Miami not only cheats, but can't even win when cheating.

When football programs have no character themselves, it is easy to see how players with character flags are more common.
It's not a SWAC/MEAC problem, it's everybody's problem.

[BisonFan02]

Politics? How?

I can explain to you why the SWAC no longer has the talent it use to. There are 3 reasons that are 100% behind it.

1. SWAC doesn't get the talent it use to back in the 70s and 80s. The SEC lowered academic standards for the most part so many of the players who would have gone to the SWAC are now in the SEC.

2. Very few schools in the SWAC have great coaching staffs, leadership above them, and top notch facilities.

3. Players want to go where the facilities are top notch and schools put money into being better in football. Many SWAC schools put more focus on the bands and the classics that draw 50,000 people rather than putting money and energy in weight room and stadium improvements to attract quality players.

This. I genuinely don't know how they get the talent they do other than:

1) Legacy. Dad/Parent went to _____ SWAC school...I will too
2) Big miss by SEC or other competitive FCS conference
3) Dumb luck?

Unless there is a draw to the schools I'm missing....it sure isn't about quality football.

[clenz]

This. I genuinely don't know how they get the talent they do other than:

1) Legacy. Dad/Parent went to _____ SWAC school...I will too
2) Big miss by SEC or other competitive FCS conference
3) Dumb luck?

Unless there is a draw to the schools I'm missing....it sure isn't about quality football.
Or they are "work out warriors". These players litter semi pro leagues and REC center basketball courts across the country. The can run fast and jump high but when it comes to skill required they just don't have it.

I'd love to see what teams like UNI, NDSU, Montana, UNH, SHSU, EWU, etc... would do to SWAC teams.

Heck, I'd love to see what Illinois State, Missouri State, Portland State, etc... do to SWAC teams.

[clenz]

The truth is you obviously are a troll with a low intellect, incapable of comprehending when someone doesn't want to be harass.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk
The truth is you clearly feel that the white man is keeping the black man/school/athlete down and that the NFL (which is like 80% black) is conspiring to keep SWAC/black athletes out of the league.

[BisonFan02]

Speaking of quality...all time NDSU "SWAC" games:

1965 - 20-7 win over Grambling for DII Championship at Pecan Bowl
2006 - 45-0 home win over Mississippi Valley State
2007 - 58-7 road win over Mississippi Valley State
2012 - 66-7 home win over Prairie View A&M....and honestly, pick whatever score you want for those last 3

and a 2010 35-9 home win over MEAC Morgan St....throw in a 51-0 win over MEAC Delaware St. too.

If you are keeping score, that is a 275 - 30 advantage to NDSU...and I have no clue, outside of a few FGs by Morgan St. and the Grambling TD, how much garbage time scoring that even was.

[BisonFan02]

Or they are "work out warriors". These players litter semi pro leagues and REC center basketball courts across the country. The can run fast and jump high but when it comes to skill required they just don't have it.

I'd love to see what teams like UNI, NDSU, Montana, UNH, SHSU, EWU, etc... would do to SWAC teams.

Heck, I'd love to see what Illinois State, Missouri State, Portland State, etc... do to SWAC teams.

Have no fear.....I've seen it. xlolx


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VYi6akd3Ag

[Lehigh Football Nation]

So we've now proven that thirty years ago, HBCU's had more talent than today because there were a lot of big-time schools that overlooked amazing talent that "fell" to the HBCUs. Yet routinely the SWAC has had players drafted at or about the same rate as the Ivy League over the last ten years.

Has the OVC outperformed the SWAC in terms of draftees over the past ten years? Probably not. Did the OVC outperform the SWAC last year? Yes.

This is a silly metric for success.

[clenz]

So we've now proven that thirty years ago, HBCU's had more talent than today because there were a lot of big-time schools that overlooked amazing talent that "fell" to the HBCUs. Yet routinely the SWAC has had players drafted at or about the same rate as the Ivy League over the last ten years.

Has the OVC outperformed the SWAC in terms of draftees over the past ten years? Probably not. Did the OVC outperform the SWAC last year? Yes.

This is a silly metric for success.
I agree with this.

The number of players a team/conference has drafted is a silly way to determine team quality.

UNI is a top 15 team almost every year but doesn't have many players drafted.

How can that be?

[smallcollegefbfan]

So we've now proven that thirty years ago, HBCU's had more talent than today because there were a lot of big-time schools that overlooked amazing talent that "fell" to the HBCUs. Yet routinely the SWAC has had players drafted at or about the same rate as the Ivy League over the last ten years.

Has the OVC outperformed the SWAC in terms of draftees over the past ten years? Probably not. Did the OVC outperform the SWAC last year? Yes.

This is a silly metric for success.

From 2010-2014 the SWAC had just 2 draft picks. The OVC had 8 in that time. Can't determine conference quality with 100% accuracy but the top 3 leagues in draft picks from the FCS the last 3-5 years have been the most dominant leagues, for the most part.

[clenz]

Have no fear.....I've seen it. xlolx


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VYi6akd3Ag
UNI was supposed to have 2 chances...both were backed out on - Savannah State in 2011 and Morgan State this year.

This could be a fun list to put together...maybe I'll put the time into compiling swac/meac records vs non-swac/meac programs since about 1990

[bluedog]

Politics? How?

I can explain to you why the SWAC no longer has the talent it use to. There are 3 reasons that are 100% behind it.

1. SWAC doesn't get the talent it use to back in the 70s and 80s. The SEC lowered academic standards for the most part so many of the players who would have gone to the SWAC are now in the SEC.

2. Very few schools in the SWAC have great coaching staffs, leadership above them, and top notch facilities.

3. Players want to go where the facilities are top notch and schools put money into being better in football. Many SWAC schools put more focus on the bands and the classics that draw 50,000 people rather than putting money and energy in weight room and stadium improvements to attract quality players.

Thanks again but I don't need a history lesson on MY conference. They were saying the same thing when I was going to school and watching the likes of ...

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd69/bluedog_su/MAXX/Pictures/WALTERPAYTON.jpg
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd69/bluedog_su/MAXX/Pictures/robertsonla.jpg
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd69/bluedog_su/MAXX/Pictures/MAURICEHURST.jpg
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd69/bluedog_su/MAXX/Pictures/JERRYRICE.jpg
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd69/bluedog_su/MAXX/Pictures/DOUGWILLIAMS.jpg
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd69/bluedog_su/MAXX/Pictures/AeneasWilliams.jpg
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd69/bluedog_su/MAXX/Pictures/STEVEMCNAIR.jpg


....they say that about all the kids coming from smaller schools unless there's something extremely special about them and even than they get over looked.


What I'm saying is that the usual generic answer that comes from NFL scouts, not that either were viable draft picks.

The article does a great job of laying out the timeline of how the draft changed and the increase in colleges with football programs, what really affected more opportunities for smaller schools then the simplification that "they aren't getting the talent that they use to argument" makes which is a part of the equation, but not as huge a part as some would want you to believe IMHO.

The fact that the draft is way smaller than it originally was forces scout to go after what they think is a sure thing (character flaws and all) and not take the time to find what they would call a diamond in the rough.

[bluedog]

The truth is you clearly feel that the white man is keeping the black man/school/athlete down and that the NFL (which is like 80% black) is conspiring to keep SWAC/black athletes out of the league.

Let me guess, you think Obama is coming to take your guns? "CLICK"

[clenz]

Let me guess, you think Obama is coming to take your guns? "CLICK"
Nope, I don't.

You're quite racist though.

[BisonFan02]

Let me guess, you think Obama is coming to take your guns? "CLICK"

Wait.....what?

[clenz]

Wait.....what?
I'm white.

He doesn't see his racism in accusing me of being racist and assuming I hate Obama because I'm white

[Panther88]

This could be a fun list to put together...maybe I'll put the time into compiling swac/meac records vs non-swac/meac programs since about 1990

Please do not do this. :D It would add more fuel to the already embarrassing fire that burns. However, if you decide to actually do it, email it to me so that a black man can say the exact same thing you would say. It would have more street cred and no one will label you, w/out substantiation, as being racist. xlolx

Seriously, I think clenz's top-3 reasons above are on point as to why the shift occurred. A huge lack of planning coupled w/ the olden mindset of "they will come, so we don't have to work to recruit them" is ridiculously prevailent, imho. Seems like some HBCUs didn't receive the memo that they have to compete and vie for the attention and attendance of academically and physically talented student(-athlete)s - even those of color :-O . I'm sure the legacy-based ideology of "they can only attend here and are not welcome anywhere else" is still fostered. I can sense it while in the midst of a few peope of color who I consider....quite racist and non-objective. :)

[BisonFan02]

I'm white.

He doesn't see his racism in accusing me of being racist and assuming I hate Obama because I'm white

Oh, no, I got it....I guess maybe I shouldn't have been surprised it went there.

[clenz]

Please do not do this. :D It would add more fuel to the already embarrassing fire that burns. However, if you decide to actually do it, email it to me so that a black man can say the exact same thing you would say. It would have more street cred and no one will label you, w/out substantiation, as being racist. xlolx
I took a break after Alabama State. I looked at one conference (OVC) saw they were 10-43 and decided I'd done enough research for the time being



Sent from my S4 using Tapatalk so if there is typos deal with it.

[AggieManiac704]

I'll volunteer my school:

North Carolina A&T (since 1990):

vs Big Sky 0-1
vs Big South 2-5
vs MVC 0-1
vs OVC 4-3
vs Socon 9-10
vs SWAC 7-4

via cfbdatawarehouse


now you kids play nice

[bluedog]

ALL TIME CONF. RANKINGS

Big Sky Conference Rankings
All-Time 20
http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_iaa/bigsky/conf_rankings.php

Big South Conference Rankings
All-Time 27

http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_iaa/bigsouth/conf_rankings.php

Colonial Athletic Association Rankings
All-Time 17

Ivy League Rankings
All-Time 7
http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_iaa/ivyleague/conf_rankings.php

Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference Rankings
All-Time 12
http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_iaa/mideastern/conf_rankings.php

Missouri Valley Football Conference Rankings
All-Time 15
http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_iaa/missourivalley/conf_rankings.php

Northeast Conference Rankings
All-Time 26
http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_iaa/northeast/conf_rankings.php

Ohio Valley Conference Rankings
All-Time 16
http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_iaa/ohiovalley/conf_rankings.php

Patriot League Rankings
All-Time 13
http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_iaa/patriot/conf_rankings.php

Pioneer Football League Rankings
All-Time 25
http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_iaa/pioneer/conf_rankings.php

Southern Conference Rankings
All-Time 14
http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_iaa/southern/conf_rankings.php

Southland Conference Rankings
All-Time 22
http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_iaa/southland/conf_rankings.php

Southwestern Athletic Conference Rankings
All-Time 10

http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_iaa/southwestern/conf_rankings.php

[TexasTerror]

BlueDog... You do realize SWAC ranking is a result of HBCU national titles? You must have missed the many times your SWAC contemporaries posted the same thing over the years.

[813Jag]

I took a break after Alabama State. I looked at one conference (OVC) saw they were 10-43 and decided I'd done enough research for the time being



Sent from my S4 using Tapatalk so if there is typos deal with it.
Southern's only played a couple non Southland opponents. Beating Missouri St (back when they were SW Missouri in 87) and losing to an in transition South Dakota St. Our Southland record is skewed by our failure against Nicholls State (6-13). I think we're moving in the right direction schedule wise. Still not a fan of the nine game mandate.


Sent from my HTC VLE_U using Tapatalk

[813Jag]

This. I genuinely don't know how they get the talent they do other than:

1) Legacy. Dad/Parent went to _____ SWAC school...I will too
2) Big miss by SEC or other competitive FCS conference
3) Dumb luck?

Unless there is a draw to the schools I'm missing....it sure isn't about quality football.

To be honest the SWAC schools miss on legacy players. The days of a kid going to a school because their folks went there are dwindling rapidly. As to your last point I guess some of us are crazy enough to want to go to school there. Weird thought I know.

[Panther88]

I took a break after Alabama State. I looked at one conference (OVC) saw they were 10-43 and decided I'd done enough research for the time being

Sent from my S4 using Tapatalk so if there is typos deal with it.

No mas, par favor! :D (please, POST MORE to substantiate the current disparity in talent AND coaching ability!!!!!)

What you should expect soonest is a mentally-immature tirade excuse responding w/ "but dey wouldn't play us back in 1962" rhetoric and "we would've molly-whopped them when we wuz scrong back in 1980." You know, those who are STUCK in their little antiquated segregated thought process. :D Vs the rest of us who are competitive in all aspects vs all, regardless of what occurred 20+ years ago and have command and control of intelligence lol, planning, and comprehension ;) .

Instead of going back to 1990, I'd venture to 2004. I think a recent 10 year history is sufficient. And, you can start w/ Southern University, the SWAC "champion" lol, being BLASTED by an SLC mediocre 6-6 Northwestern State University(3-4 SLC record; OOC victories over Southern U, Langston lol, and Mizzou St) team to the tune of 55-14 fall 2013. I'm not understanding where and why "sportsmanship" vs the SWAC is coming into play xsmhx. When PVAMU took the trip to NDSU 2 falls ago, I was hoping NDSU would embarrass PVAMU by 100+ points. NDSU assuredly outclassed PVAMU from the start of the game to the final gun. The disparity in TALENT, commitment to weightroom, play, and COACHING were ridiculously evident after only 2 mins into the game. PV's "fans" are a fickle and quite naive bunch w/ regards to sports and comprehending what COMPETIVITY really is. Too many are "bandhead"-like geeks w/ zero comprehension and zero athletic understanding.

[Panther88]

Have no fear.....I've seen it. xlolx


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VYi6akd3Ag

I saw it too!

"It shouldn't be that easy." xsmhx

No heart. No physicality. No talent. No coaching. Nothing. *smh* Wish I could've put a buzz in your head coach's ear: "score, at will. play the 1st string past the 1st quarter, please?" lol 1st teamers were being substituted by start of 2nd quarter. :(

[clenz]

No mas, par favor! :D (please, POST MORE to substantiate the current disparity in talent AND coaching ability!!!!!)
I'm going to do it anyway...it does substantiate the current disparity in talent and coaching.

I'll put it in a google sheet and post it.

Here's a teaser of Alabama AM, ALL TIME, vs non MEAC/SWAC schools.



Win
Loss
Tie
Win %
PF
Avg PF
PA
Avg PA
Delta


MVFC
0
1
0
0
0
0
52
52
-52


OVC
10
43
2
20%
773
14
1448
27
-675


Total
10
44
2
20%
773
7
1500
40
-727




I'm going to do all time as the SWAC and MEAC have really segregated themselves the last 10-20 years (now imagine if HWCUs had segregated the HBCUs what kind outrage there would be.)

[Nickels]

I'd love to see what teams like UNI, NDSU, Montana, UNH, SHSU, EWU, etc... would do to SWAC teams.
Ask and you shall receive

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vxPwJVePak
Notice the massive amount of fan support, it almost matches their alumni contributions and 4% graduation rate.

We would have had another chance to take down another almighty SWAC team last year but they of course bailed at the last minute...and didn't bother to inform our AD. Classy bunch.

[clenz]

Also...I found this. It's fitting everytime Panther88 agrees with me

http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/black+guy+agreed.+oh+white+guilt....it+gets+me+eve rytime_b2f69c_4793653.jpg

[WileECoyote06]

I'm going to do it anyway...it does substantiate the current disparity in talent and coaching.

I'll put it in a google sheet and post it.

Here's a teaser of Alabama AM, ALL TIME, vs non MEAC/SWAC schools.



Win
Loss
Tie
Win %
PF
Avg PF
PA
Avg PA
Delta


MVFC
0
1
0
0
0
0
52
52
-52


OVC
10
43
2
20%
773
14
1448
27
-675


Total
10
44
2
20%
773
7
1500
40
-727




I'm going to do all time as the SWAC and MEAC have really segregated themselves the last 10-20 years (now imagine if HWCUs had segregated the HBCUs what kind outrage there would be.)

Although the MEAC is listed in the article, the MEAC and SWAC are not the same in terms of support, vision or commitment to FCS football. The MEAC hasn't segregated itself at all. Why bring us into it?

[GAD]

Ask and you shall receive

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vxPwJVePak
Notice the massive amount of fan support, it almost matches their alumni contributions and 4% graduation rate.

We would have had another chance to take down another almighty SWAC team last year but they of course bailed at the last minute...and didn't bother to inform our AD. Classy bunch.
How can Sam Houston talk about anybodys fan support? seriously?

[clenz]

How can Sam Houston talk about anybodys fan support? seriously?
I would guess it's more of a dig at the "look how many people we bring to every game so nothing else matters" mentality that is quite prevalent from HBCUs on this forum (and administrations honestly.).

[GAD]

I would guess it's more of a dig at the "look how many people we bring to every game so nothing else matters" mentality that is quite prevalent from HBCUs on this forum (and administrations honestly.).
Ok, but for a team that has made it to the national title game two times and can't even generate interest on there own campus? but they want to comment on somebody fan support really?

[Nickels]

Ok, but for a team that has made it to the national title game two times and can't even generate interest on there own campus? but they want to comment on somebody fan support really?
We average 8-10k. Of course we would like it to be more but TSU had maybe 200 people at their home game. ****ING PATHETIC.

[superman7515]

The MEAC hasn't segregated itself at all. Why bring us into it?

True. It's really only been FAMU from the MEAC that has segregated itself. When they played Samford this past season (2013), it was the first time FAMU had played a PWC FCS team in the regular season since they beat Georgia Southern in 1992.

I don't count the 2004 game against Nicholls because FAMU was transitioning to 1A and had more than the FCS number of scholarships, so it wasn't an FCS vs FCS game. Their schedule was predominantly a 1A schedule with Illinois, Tulane, Temple, Virginia Tech, Florida Atlantic, and Florida International.

[AggieManiac704]

True. It's really only been FAMU from the MEAC that has segregated itself. When they played Samford this past season (2013), it was the first time FAMU had played a PWC FCS team in the regular season since they beat Georgia Southern in 1992.

I don't count the 2004 game against Nicholls because FAMU was transitioning to 1A and had more than the FCS number of scholarships, so it wasn't an FCS vs FCS game. Their schedule was predominantly a 1A schedule with Illinois, Tulane, Temple, Virginia Tech, Florida Atlantic, and Florida International.

*looks at FAMU's 2014 schedule*

.....better later than never I guess......

[BisonFan02]

To be honest the SWAC schools miss on legacy players. The days of a kid going to a school because their folks went there are dwindling rapidly. As to your last point I guess some of us are crazy enough to want to go to school there. Weird thought I know.

Wasn't necessarily a dig at the school. I looked at from a pure "football" prospective as far as picking programs to play for.

[GAD]

True. It's really only been FAMU from the MEAC that has segregated itself. When they played Samford this past season (2013), it was the first time FAMU had played a PWC FCS team in the regular season since they beat Georgia Southern in 1992.

I don't count the 2004 game against Nicholls because FAMU was transitioning to 1A and had more than the FCS number of scholarships, so it wasn't an FCS vs FCS game. Their schedule was predominantly a 1A schedule with Illinois, Tulane, Temple, Virginia Tech, Florida Atlantic, and Florida International.
For a number of years there non conf. games were set Tenn. St and Southern both long time traditional rivals with a lot of history so it didn't leave them much room to bring in new opponents.
there are lots of people who are still not happy FAMU is no longer on our schedule

[Panther88]

How can Sam Houston talk about anybodys fan support? seriously?


Owwwwwwwwwwww.....ch!!!!! xlolx Someone dial '911' for Nickels. *smh*

[superman7515]

For a number of years there non conf. games were set Tenn. St and Southern both long time traditional rivals with a lot of history so it didn't leave them much room to bring in new opponents.
there are lots of people who are still not happy FAMU is no longer on our schedule

I'm not saying I blame them for anything, it's their choice to schedule as they see fit. I know for a fact that FAMU declined a home & home with Delaware and Statman said there were other PWC's who made offers for home & home series during 12-game seasons and were turned down as well and instead games were scheduled with Morris Brown, Tuskegee, Virginia Union, etc.

[Nickels]

Owwwwwwwwwwww.....ch!!!!! xlolx Someone dial '911' for Nickels. *smh*
http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2012/07/06/5-tips-to-develop-thicker-skin/

[smallcollegefbfan]

Thanks again but I don't need a history listen on MY conference. They were saying the same thing when I was going to school and watching the likes of ...

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd69/bluedog_su/MAXX/Pictures/WALTERPAYTON.jpg
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd69/bluedog_su/MAXX/Pictures/robertsonla.jpg
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd69/bluedog_su/MAXX/Pictures/MAURICEHURST.jpg
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd69/bluedog_su/MAXX/Pictures/JERRYRICE.jpg
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd69/bluedog_su/MAXX/Pictures/DOUGWILLIAMS.jpg
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd69/bluedog_su/MAXX/Pictures/AeneasWilliams.jpg
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd69/bluedog_su/MAXX/Pictures/STEVEMCNAIR.jpg


....they say that about all the kids coming from smaller schools unless there's something extremely special about them and even than they get over looked.


What I'm saying is that the usual generic answer that comes from NFL scouts, not that either were viable draft picks.

The article does a great job of laying out the timeline of how the draft changed and the increase in colleges with football programs, what really affected more opportunities for smaller schools then the simplification that "they aren't getting the talent that they use to argument" makes which is a part of the equation, but not as huge a part as some would want you to believe IMHO.

The fact that the draft is way smaller than it originally was forces scout to go after what they think is a sure thing (character flaws and all) and not take the time to find what they would call a diamond in the rough.

The article did do a pretty good job but you are making an assumption about the NFL that just isn't true. I have seen scouts going to MidAmerica Nazarene, Southern Nazarene, all the SWAC schools, tons of D3, and NAIA schools even. NFL teams put the work in but the bottom line is D1 and top level FCS schools are doing a better job in recruiting than they use to. I have spent this summer and spring watching tape on a lot of random schools. One that you might not have ever heard of it Pacific Lutheran, for example. I found myself watching a kicker from Endicott (MA) this year. Scouts are looking at schools from all over. It's just that they are rejecting many of them or only giving tryouts because you have to dominate a small school league.

Do you really think a 3-year starter in the SEC should be passed over for a part-time starter in the SWAC or a guy who can't stay healthy or one who simply has 3 or 4 good games and that's it? I know you don't think so. Yes, I know there is a bias for FBS but why shouldn't there be? The last few years we have seen more and more small schoolers drafted and signed into camps but there will always be more talent in the FBS, because they get first crack at the players. The simple fact is that had academic requirements changed 30 years earlier most of those SWAC players in the NFL would not have played in the SWAC, unless they had transferred down.

A little food for thought.

1. One major problem that is not mentioned in that article nor mentioned by anyone on this board is that there are more agents today than ever and they are signing players who have no shot and telling players things that aren't true. The main thing they are telling them is that they are draftable when in reality they are not.

2. One stat you might find interesting. Did you know that more 2015 draft eligible players signed with an agent this year than there are total available roster and practice squad spots in the entire NFL not only for rookies but veteran spots as well? So basically, about 1000 players will get a shot, give or take a little, and less 30% of those 1000 will ever truly last in the NFL.

3. 5% of all high school players play college football and of that 5%, just about 1% actually get a shot in the NFL. That just goes to show you how tough it is. I think a real problem is many players, fans, and even coaches don't realize how hard it is to make it.

4. It's harder to make it in the NFL as a player, scout, or coach, than it is to be a doctor or a lawyer. Proof of that is the fact that there are more doctors and lawyers Florida and Texas alone than there are scouts, coaches, GMs, and players combined in the NFL.

One issue that is creeping up is that players in FCS who are considered big time talents early in their careers are trying to graduate early so they can transfer up. Shaquille Riddick just left Gardner-Webb for West Virginia and that stuff is happening more and more.

Look at Texas Southern a few years ago when Marquis Jackson, a 4-star recruit who didn't stick at the FBS level, left for Portland State for his senior year. He left because of the lack of good facilities, coaching carousel, and the fact he wanted to play in a more competitive conference. He had 18.5 tackles for loss in the SWAC as a junior but only had 10.5 tackles for loss as a senior in the Big Sky. He was a very good player and despite being a little stronger and bigger he wasn't first-team All-Big Sky and didn't have as many tackles for loss as he did the year before in the SWAC.

There is talent in the SWAC but just not a ton of it right now. I really do think there will be 1 or 2 draft picks from the SWAC this year, as long as those players live up to the expectations of NFL scouts. I know UAPB, PVAMU, Alcorn State, and Alabama State all have players with a legit shot at a good all-star game and/or to get drafted.

[GAD]

I'm not saying I blame them for anything, it's their choice to schedule as they see fit. I know for a fact that FAMU declined a home & home with Delaware and Statman said there were other PWC's who made offers for home & home series during 12-game seasons and were turned down as well and instead games were scheduled with Morris Brown, Tuskegee, Virginia Union, etc.
One reason some HBCUs don't care to do a home & home with PWCs is because you can't sell tickets to those games. I remember Southern doing a few home & homes with some and we lost money big time. We might show up with 10k fans at there place and we would out number them in there stadium, but when they would come here they might sell about 300 tickets. That really soured one of our ADs on playing them for a while, so he just started bring in d2 schools

[clenz]

One reason some HBCUs don't care to do a home & home with PWCs is because you can't sell tickets to those games. I remember Southern doing a few home & homes with some and we lost money big time. We might show up with 10k fans at there place and we would out number them in there stadium, but when they would come here they might sell about 300 tickets. That really soured one of our ADs on playing them for a while, so he just started bring in d2 schools

Provide proof...actual proof...of you talking 10 ;

Sent from my S4 using Tapatalk so if there is typos deal with it.

[bluedog]

The article did do a pretty good job but you are making an assumption about the NFL that just isn't true. I have seen scouts going to MidAmerica Nazarene, Southern Nazarene, all the SWAC schools, tons of D3, and NAIA schools even. NFL teams put the work in but the bottom line is D1 and top level FCS schools are doing a better job in recruiting than they use to. I have spent this summer and spring watching tape on a lot of random schools. One that you might not have ever heard of it Pacific Lutheran, for example. I found myself watching a kicker from Endicott (MA) this year. Scouts are looking at schools from all over. It's just that they are rejecting many of them or only giving tryouts because you have to dominate a small school league.

Where did I say or even insinuate that they didn't?


Do you really think a 3-year starter in the SEC should be passed over for a part-time starter in the SWAC or a guy who can't stay healthy or one who simply has 3 or 4 good games and that's it? I know you don't think so. Yes, I know there is a bias for FBS but why shouldn't there be? The last few years we have seen more and more small schoolers drafted and signed into camps but there will always be more talent in the FBS, because they get first crack at the players. The simple fact is that had academic requirements changed 30 years earlier most of those SWAC players in the NFL would not have played in the SWAC, unless they had transferred down.

Plainly put that simply is one of the biggest lies ever told or you are ignorant to the history of college football split into Div1AA from Div1.

Many players during that time retired and went on to work in corporate America as CEO's and Presidents or run very successful business of their own.

i.e. Lee Harold Carmichael

After retiring, he settled in South Jersey and joined a Philadelphia travel agency as a vice president for sales.[4] He later operated various businesses, including in steel fabrication and sports marketing.
In 1998, Carmichael was named the director of player and community relations for the Eagles, a newly created position where he would be a "combination mentor, confidant, troubleshooter, and liaison between the players and the authority figures in the organization".[6]

Mel Blount

Following his football career, Blount became Director of Player Relations for the NFL, serving in the position from 1983 to 1990. He also became active in charity work. He founded the Mel Blount Youth Home, a shelter and Christian mission for victims of child abuse and neglect in Toombs County, Georgia in 1983. In 1989, he opened a second youth home in Claysville, Pennsylvania, near Pittsburgh. The Mel Blount Youth Home was investigated for child abuse in the late-90's.[5]

Willie Davis

Davis is a member of Kappa Alpha Psi fraternity. He received his MBA from the University of Chicago Graduate School of Business in 1968. He is a member or former member of the boards of Alliance Bank, Dow Chemical (1988–2006), Johnson Controls (1991–2006), K-Mart, L.A. Gear, Manpower (2001-), Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer (1999-), MGM Mirage, Rally's Inc., Sara Lee (1983-), Schlitz Brewing, and WICOR Inc. He has been president of All-Pro Broadcasting, operators of radio stations KCXX-FM, KATY-FM, WLDB-FM, WLUM-FM, and WZTI since 1976.



I would remind you that APR has more to do with retention where FCS schools are concern and that the APR system was conceive because the larger BCS/FBS schools have become NFL farm schools, giving degrees to athletes only to learn later that they read on a third grade level or can't read at all.


Dexter Manley, Antonio Cromartie, and James Brooks to name a few. I'd challenge you to find any that have played in the NFL that are SWAC graduates ( Since Obviously you want to make this simply about the SWAC)

Reference: Why James can't read (http://www.enquirer.com/editions/1999/12/05/spt_why_james_cant_read.html)

You're making a lot of assumptions base off of what, I'm at a loss to understand.

The fact that you're mentioning FBS schools in this conversation tells be you spend to much time reading the delusional post that a lot of these posters make concerning their idea of comparisons competition to FBS schools or you're being overly defensive about a simple observation.



A little food for thought.

1. One major problem that is not mentioned in that article nor mentioned by anyone on this board is that there are more agents today than ever and they are signing players who have no shot and telling players things that aren't true. The main thing they are telling them is that they are draftable when in reality they are not.

2. One stat you might find interesting. Did you know that more 2015 draft eligible players signed with an agent this year than there are total available roster and practice squad spots in the entire NFL not only for rookies but veteran spots as well? So basically, about 1000 players will get a shot, give or take a little, and less 30% of those 1000 will ever truly last in the NFL.

3. 5% of all high school players play college football and of that 5%, just about 1% actually get a shot in the NFL. That just goes to show you how tough it is. I think a real problem is many players, fans, and even coaches don't realize how hard it is to make it.

4. It's harder to make it in the NFL as a player, scout, or coach, than it is to be a doctor or a lawyer. Proof of that is the fact that there are more doctors and lawyers Florida and Texas alone than there are scouts, coaches, GMs, and players combined in the NFL.

One issue that is creeping up is that players in FCS who are considered big time talents early in their careers are trying to graduate early so they can transfer up. Shaquille Riddick just left Gardner-Webb for West Virginia and that stuff is happening more and more.

Look at Texas Southern a few years ago when Marquis Jackson, a 4-star recruit who didn't stick at the FBS level, left for Portland State for his senior year. He left because of the lack of good facilities, coaching carousel, and the fact he wanted to play in a more competitive conference. He had 18.5 tackles for loss in the SWAC as a junior but only had 10.5 tackles for loss as a senior in the Big Sky. He was a very good player and despite being a little stronger and bigger he wasn't first-team All-Big Sky and didn't have as many tackles for loss as he did the year before in the SWAC.

There is talent in the SWAC but just not a ton of it right now. I really do think there will be 1 or 2 draft picks from the SWAC this year, as long as those players live up to the expectations of NFL scouts. I know UAPB, PVAMU, Alcorn State, and Alabama State all have players with a legit shot at a good all-star game and or to get drafted.

Again thanks for your reply

[smallcollegefbfan]

Again thanks for your reply

You didn't say that about the recruiting but just stating that FBS is doing a better job and that a small group of FCS conferences have stepped it up in recruiting and in their facilities, thus they are attracting many good players that otherwise would have gone to the SWAC or a non traditional playoff power.

As for the academic requirements it wasn't just that but the SEC in general has changed their scope. They are offering any player in the southeast who they see with legit D1 talent coming out of high school, they did adjust their academic requirements and in what they look for in recruits. Recruiting has simply changed a lot in general and thus you won't find as many Hall of Famers in the FCS level, that includes all conferences, as you use to see. Those days of a Jerry Rice caliber player going to the FCS are gone unless there is a reason like grades, off field arrest, etc as to why a player is passed up. Look at how many FCS players who have been taken in the last 5-8 years among the top 150 picks who didn't live up to the hype or pan out. I don't want this taken as me saying there is no talent in FCS. I'm just saying there isn't as much top level talent as there once was. There are actually more late round and priority free agent caliber players than ever before in the FCS, at least in the 15-20 years.

There are a lot of players like Manley who just graduated through and don't go to class or do what they should in the classroom. I'm sure there are a lot of players who don't put in the classwork that they should.

FBS has everything to do with the talent here in the FCS. If a player has BCS offers he is not going to pass them up to play in the MEAC, SWAC, OVC, or Southern Conference, etc. My whole point is that you made it seem that SWAC players aren't given looks at all or not scouted fairly but the truth is that FBS schools are doing a better job of finding talent and developing it. There is no prejudice formed against the SWAC. If a player is good enough he will get a shot and make it. Sad truth that players all think they are first round caliber or the best player at their position, at the end of the day only one at each position will truly end up being the best, making thousands of players a year wrong.

With all of the junior pro days, all-star games, NFL Combine, senior pro days, regional and super regional combines if a player wants to play in the NFL he has more opportunity than he needs to make it. If a player doesn't make it then he just simply wasn't good enough either due to talent or the numbers game.

[GAD]

Provide proof...actual proof...of you talking 10 ;

Sent from my S4 using Tapatalk so if there is typos deal with it.
All you have to do is look at the home attendance records of the schools I'm speaking of most were set while hosting SWAC schools.
Southeastern La. was set while hosting Jackson State (before they shut there program down)
Sam Houston set while hosting Alcorn
Nicholls State and Northwestern State set while hosting Southern
McNeese was set while hosting UL-L but the second highest was when they hosted Grambling
but it may take me a little time to find the actual boxscores but I'll look

[JROCK]

Or they are "work out warriors". These players litter semi pro leagues and REC center basketball courts across the country. The can run fast and jump high but when it comes to skill required they just don't have it.

I'd love to see what teams like UNI, NDSU, Montana, UNH, SHSU, EWU, etc... would do to SWAC teams.

Heck, I'd love to see what Illinois State, Missouri State, Portland State, etc... do to SWAC teams.

Grambling went to Portland State and beat them a few years ago.....(2001 when PSU was ranked)

[JROCK]

I'm going to do it anyway...it does substantiate the current disparity in talent and coaching.

I'll put it in a google sheet and post it.

Here's a teaser of Alabama AM, ALL TIME, vs non MEAC/SWAC schools.



Win
Loss
Tie
Win %
PF
Avg PF
PA
Avg PA
Delta


MVFC
0
1
0
0
0
0
52
52
-52


OVC
10
43
2
20%
773
14
1448
27
-675


Total
10
44
2
20%
773
7
1500
40
-727




I'm going to do all time as the SWAC and MEAC have really segregated themselves the last 10-20 years (now imagine if HWCUs had segregated the HBCUs what kind outrage there would be.)

Your numbers are skewed at best and a blatant fabrication at worse......AAMU joined the SWAC in 1999 (you're counting games when they were d-2 or when Others were FCS/I-AA

They are 7-11 vs the OVC since joining the SWAC

[JROCK]

All you have to do is look at the home attendance records of the schools I'm speaking of most were set while hosting SWAC schools.
Southeastern La. was set while hosting Jackson State (before they shut there program down)
Sam Houston set while hosting Alcorn
Nicholls State and Northwestern State set while hosting Southern
McNeese was set while hosting UL-L but the second highest was when they hosted Grambling
but it may take me a little time to find the actual boxscores but I'll look

I wouldn't put too much energy in researching. This is pretty common knowledge and you're on point with your examples......

[bluedog]

You didn't say that about the recruiting but just stating that FBS is doing a better job and that a small group of FCS conferences have stepped it up in recruiting and in their facilities, thus they are attracting many good players that otherwise would have gone to the SWAC or a non traditional playoff power.

As for the academic requirements it wasn't just that but the SEC in general has changed their scope. They are offering any player in the southeast who they see with legit D1 talent coming out of high school, they did adjust their academic requirements and in what they look for in recruits. Recruiting has simply changed a lot in general and thus you won't find as many Hall of Famers in the FCS level, that includes all conferences, as you use to see. Those days of a Jerry Rice caliber player going to the FCS are gone unless there is a reason like grades, off field arrest, etc as to why a player is passed up. Look at how many FCS players who have been taken in the last 5-8 years among the top 150 picks who didn't live up to the hype or pan out. I don't want this taken as me saying there is no talent in FCS. I'm just saying there isn't as much top level talent as there once was. There are actually more late round and priority free agent caliber players than ever before in the FCS, at least in the 15-20 years.

There are a lot of players like Manley who just graduated through and don't go to class or do what they should in the classroom. I'm sure there are a lot of players who don't put in the classwork that they should.

FBS has everything to do with the talent here in the FCS. If a player has BCS offers he is not going to pass them up to play in the MEAC, SWAC, OVC, or Southern Conference, etc. My whole point is that you made it seem that SWAC players aren't given looks at all or not scouted fairly but the truth is that FBS schools are doing a better job of finding talent and developing it. There is no prejudice formed against the SWAC. If a player is good enough he will get a shot and make it. Sad truth that players all think they are first round caliber or the best player at their position, at the end of the day only one at each position will truly end up being the best, making thousands of players a year wrong.

With all of the junior pro days, all-star games, NFL Combine, senior pro days, regional and super regional combines if a player wants to play in the NFL he has more opportunity than he needs to make it. If a player doesn't make it then he just simply wasn't good enough either due to talent or the numbers game.


No I didn't, that's simply how you chose to interpret it.

[bluedog]

Alabama A&M Records by Conference Since Joining The SWAC 1999
MEAC 3-2
OVC 7-9

Alabama State Records by Conference Since Joining The SWAC 1982
MEAC 9-7
OVC 1-5
SOUTHERN CONFERENCE 2-0

Alcorn State Records by Conference Since 1943
Big Sky Conf 0-1
Colonial Athletic 0-1
Independent 2-0
MEAC 24-16
MISSOURI VALLEY 0-5
OVC 1-9
SOUTHERN CONF 2-4
SLC 5-13

Jackson State Records by Conference 1958
BIG SKY 0-1
CAA 0-1
MEAC 28-1
MISSOURI VALLEY 0-2
OVC 20-25
SOUTHERN 0-1
SLC 7-10

Mississippi Valley State Records by Conference 1968
MEAC 4-12
MISSOURI VALLEY 0-3
OVC 3-5
SOUTHERN 0-2
SLC 2-6

Arkansas-Pine Bluff Records by Conference Since Joining The SWAC 1998
MEAC 0-8
MISSOURI VALLEY 1-4
OVC 0-4
SLC 2-11

Grambling State Records by Conference 1958
BIG SKY 2-0
CAA 1-0
MEAC 65-26
MISSOURI VALLEY 0-1
OVC 22-18
SLC 4-5

Prairie View A&M Records by Conference 1923
INDEPENDENT 0-3
MEAC 5-5
MISSOURI VALLEY 0-4
OVC 1-4
SLC 2-11

Southern Records by Conference 1934
MEAC 48-45
MISSOURI VALLEY 1-1
OVC 12-27
SLC 12-21

Texas Southern Records by Conference 1954
MEAC 13-20
MISSOURI VALLEY 0-1
OVC 4-15
SLC 7-25

310-396

[WileECoyote06]

I wouldn't put too much energy in researching. This is pretty common knowledge and you're on point with your examples......

Pretty much. I've made this argument several times before. If you need more anecdotal evidence, ask an A&T fan about their I-40 rivalry with Elon. xlolx

I'll be interested to see how Charlotte travels when we play them this year; and I hope Towson is ready. Our DC alumni chapter is one of the biggest ones. I've seen us bring 4,000 to Morgan State.

[bluedog]

All you have to do is look at the home attendance records of the schools I'm speaking of most were set while hosting SWAC schools.
Southeastern La. was set while hosting Jackson State (before they shut there program down)
Sam Houston set while hosting Alcorn
Nicholls State and Northwestern State set while hosting Southern
McNeese was set while hosting UL-L but the second highest was when they hosted Grambling
but it may take me a little time to find the actual boxscores but I'll look

Not to mention ULL and the entire Sunbelt conference attendance record was set hosting Southern in 2009.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Sun_Belt_Conference_football_season

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk

[bluedog]

Central Arkansas Records by Conference since 2007

BIG SKY 1-2
INDEPENDENT 1-0
MISSOURI VALLEY 1-2
OVC 6-1
SOUTHERN 0-1
SWAC 1-0 ( 2008 3-9-0 UAPB )

http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_iaa/southland/central_arkansas/vs_conf.php?start=2007&end=2013

[Bisonoline]

So, what you're saying is that the reason no SWAC players got drafted is because they aren't athletic enough? If everyone had better pro days they'd get drafted too.

I would have went with---they just werent talented enough.

[smallcollegefbfan]

I would have went with---they just werent talented enough.

Basically. Anyone remember that 3-time All-American safety from Alabama State? I can't remember his name but I remember websites and fans hyping him as a draft pick. He ran a 4.8 40 and didn't make it past first cut. In fact, I think he may have only gotten a tryout.

If a player is considered to be talented enough, NFL teams will give them a look.

It may surprise some people but right now there are 2 D3 players who are going to attract a lot of NFL teams this fall and have a shot to get drafted.

[bluedog]

Basically. Anyone remember that 3-time All-American safety from Alabama State? I can't remember his name but I remember websites and fans hyping him as a draft pick. He ran a 4.8 40 and didn't make it past first cut. In fact, I think he may have only gotten a tryout.

If a player is considered to be talented enough, NFL teams will give them a look.

It may surprise some people but right now there are 2 D3 players who are going to attract a lot of NFL teams this fall and have a shot to get drafted.

Um...No! So as a SWAC Alum/Fan if I don't remember him he's probably a good example of poor scouting.

[smallcollegefbfan]

Um...No! So as a SWAC Alum/Fan if I don't remember him he's probably a good example of poor scouting.

Kejuan Riley. He had like 20 plus career picks. He was a first-team All-SWAC pick as a sophomore. He was not good at all. The media loved him and when he got in a camp he could not last.

Is there a player who just graduated besides Isaiah Crowell that was truly worth a draft pick in your mind?

Who is a senior in the SWAC this year who you say is a slam dunk? As of right now I don't have anyone as a slam dunk but I do consider a few players as possible draft picks, as long as they take the next step as players and really light it up this year.

[clenz]

Kejuan Riley. He had like 20 plus career picks. He was a first-team All-SWAC pick as a sophomore. He was not good at all. The media loved him and when he got in a camp he could not last.

Is there a player who just graduated besides Isaiah Crowell that was truly worth a draft pick in your mind?

Who is a senior in the SWAC this year who you say is a slam dunk? As of right now I don't have anyone as a slam dunk but I do consider a few players as possible draft picks, as long as they take the next step as players and really light it up this year.
This quote from the NFL website proves your point


Riley finished fifth in the voting for the 2011 Buck Buchanan Award, given to the best defender in the Football Championship Subdivision every year – finishing well ahead of 2012 draft picks Justin Bethel (Presbyterian), Asa Jackson (Cal Poly), Josh Norman (Coastal Carolina), and Trumaine Johnson (Montana). His nine interceptions, along with 75 tackles and two forced fumbles got him All-American accolades, as well as catching the eye of NFL scouts always on the look-out for a small-school safety with potential as a reserve and special teams contributor.

then there is this

Poor quarterbacking at the FCS level gives him a lot of easier chances to make interceptions.http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/profiles/kejuan-riley?id=2539993




He finished a head of all of them in the awards yet wasn't drafted and hasn't stuck anywhere. Seems like the NFL knew what they had in him, which wasn't much.

I do take exception to the second quote...it paints a broad brush with FCS qbs. I'd say the poor QBing was in his conference.

[smallcollegefbfan]

This quote from the NFL website proves your point



He finished a head of all of them in the awards yet wasn't drafted and hasn't stuck anywhere. Seems like the NFL knew what they had in him, which wasn't much.

I do take exception to the second quote...it paints a broad brush with FCS qbs. I'd say the poor QBing was in his conference.

Exactly. Riley was not a better player than any of them and with his production you would think that any SWAC fan would have to remember him.

The only FCS players I can think of in the last 5-6 years who the NFL teams had way too low, looking back on things, is Victor Cruz and Mike Tolbert. I had both as PFAs but actually pushed Tolbert for an all-star game I was with at the time and believed then he would have been drafted if we had taken him. As for Cruz, he really didn't show out on film as more than a good camp guy but really had a great postseason workout that opened eyes and had the Giants in love with him but knew they could get him undrafted because they were the only team at that workout.

[bluedog]

Kejuan Riley. He had like 20 plus career picks. He was a first-team All-SWAC pick as a sophomore. He was not good at all. The media loved him and when he got in a camp he could not last.

Is there a player who just graduated besides Isaiah Crowell that was truly worth a draft pick in your mind?

Who is a senior in the SWAC this year who you say is a slam dunk? As of right now I don't have anyone as a slam dunk but I do consider a few players as possible draft picks, as long as they take the next step as players and really light it up this year.

No one off the top of my head. I would say the FCS hasn't had a slam dunk darftee since Steve McNair.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk

[clenz]

No one off the top of my head. I would say the FCS hasn't had a slam dunk darftee since Steve McNair.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk
Um....

What?

[smallcollegefbfan]

No one off the top of my head. I would say the FCS hasn't had a slam dunk darftee since Steve McNair.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk

To me a slam dunk draftee is someone you know will get drafted for sure and probably will go in the top 4 or 5 rounds.

You say no slam dunks? Since Steve McNair there have been probably 150 slam dunk draft picks. You forget first round picks Joe Flacco and DRC from Tenn State. Then we have seen Dexter Coakley, potential hall of famer Terrell Owens, Terron Armstead, Jimmy Garoppolo, etc. There have been a TON of slam dunk draftees. There have been a couple like Armstead since McNair. You have to get out of the 1980s and early 1990s in your thinking. The SWAC has had slam dunk draft picks and FCS has had A LOT of them.

McNair has also been beaten out as the best QB in FCS history in the last 15 years with Armanti Edwards coming through and winning the Walter Payton Award twice as well as going in the 3rd round. Edwards was a slam dunk draft pick who just has not been used right in the NFL.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I think you have to put Flacco on that list of slam-dunks, though I think I know why you left him off that list - because there was considerable doubt at the time of the draft as to whether he could be a franchise QB.

[clenz]

I think you have to put Flacco on that list of slam-dunks, though I think I know why you left him off that list - because there was considerable doubt at the time of the draft as to whether he could be a franchise QB.
What are we talking about here?

Slam dunk draftees was mentioned - not slam dunk franchise players.

There have been at least 150, as SCFB, said since McNair.

Too many SWAC fans are still living in the 80s and early 90s with their thought processes, also as SCFB stated

[smallcollegefbfan]

What are we talking about here?

Slam dunk draftees was mentioned - not slam dunk franchise players.

There have been at least 150, as SCFB, said since McNair.

Too many SWAC fans are still living in the 80s and early 90s with their thought processes, also as SCFB stated

I'll go a step further. Over the last 5 years North Dakota State has had more NFL talent than the entire SWAC in the last 8 years. I'm not bashing on the SWAC but right now the talent just isn't there. For someone to argue the SWAC is getting screwed but can't name a slam dunk or even legit draftable player who was not picked, it kills the argument.

[Nickels]

SWAC fan knowledge matches SWAC player abilities.

[smallcollegefbfan]

SWAC fan knowledge matches SWAC player abilities.

There are simple solutions for the SWAC, if they want to upgrade talent and ultmateily see more players in the NFL.

1. Upgrade facilities and put more time in football than in the marching band.
2. Schedule CAA, SoCon, and Southland teams regularly, along with making sure a good FBS money game is on tap.
3. Increase the pay of coaches and make a commitment to getting some good name coaches in the league.
4. Take a stance and stop taking transfers with a lot of off the field issues.
5. Apply to have an autobid in the playoffs by playing their conference championship game the week before the playoffs and giving the bid to that winner.

SWAC fans can't complain until all of the above is done and they show that the marching bands aren't the most important thing. Some people just want to complain about something and I'm not saying he is because I think there are fans from every league who find something minor to complain about.

[813Jag]

There are simple solutions for the SWAC, if they want to upgrade talent and ultmateily see more players in the NFL.

1. Upgrade facilities and put more time in football than in the marching band.
2. Schedule CAA, SoCon, and Southland teams regularly, along with making sure a good FBS money game is on tap.
3. Increase the pay of coaches and make a commitment to getting some good name coaches in the league.
4. Take a stance and stop taking transfers with a lot of off the field issues.
5. Apply to have an autobid in the playoffs by playing their conference championship game the week before the playoffs and giving the bid to that winner.

SWAC fans can't complain until all of the above is done and they show that the marching bands aren't the most important thing. Some people just want to complain about something and I'm not saying he is because I think there are fans from every league who find something minor to complain about.
#1 Facilities are one the rise at most schools and the marching band is a separate entity. Athletic money or time doesn't go there.
#2 I agree with more aggressive scheduling. 1 FBS game (regional) and 1 regional FCS (Southland/OVC), and for 12 game seasons hopefully a home FCS or if it must be done a solid DII.
#3 was one of the biggest problems in the SWAC. Some schools overpaid for coaches.
#4 not all teams take transfers with off the field issues, although that could apply to other FCS schools as well.
#5 don't see that happening in anyone's lifetime.

I won't speak for any other school but Southern fans will go to games whether the band is there or not.

[Panther88]

Too many SWAC fans are still living in the 80s and early 90s with their thought processes, also as SCFB stated

I'd go a step beyond and say a lot of them are living in the 50s/60s/70s w/ their thought processes w/ regards to athletic competivity, unfortunately.

Those days are over; however, if you listen to some of them, they speak of those yester-accomplishments as if they recently occurred fall 2013. xsmhx

[Nickels]

I won't speak for any other school but Southern fans will go to games whether the band is there or not.
That doesn't apply to TSU I guess

Our game against TSU (at BBVA) had maybe a bus load or two of TSU fans because the band was suspended.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21GVG18kXeo
See for yourself. (that tackle at 1:34 LOL)

[813Jag]

I'd go a step beyond and say a lot of them are living in the 50s/60s/70s w/ their thought processes w/ regards to athletic competivity, unfortunately.

Those days are over; however, if you listen to some of them, they speak of those yester-accomplishments as if they recently occurred fall 2013. xsmhx
can't disagree with that.

[813Jag]

BULL****

Our game against TSU (at BBVA) had maybe a bus load or two of TSU fans because the band was suspended.
please read again, I said I won't speak for other schools. I didn't mention Texas Southern at all. I said Southern. Take a couple seconds and look at my sig, does Texas Southern wear blue and yellow?? This post makes your post about SWAC fans even funnier. xlolx

[Nickels]

please read again, I said I won't speak for other schools. I didn't mention Texas Southern at all. I said Southern. Take a couple seconds and look at my sig, does Texas Southern wear blue and yellow?? This post makes your post about SWAC fans even funnier. xlolx
What are you talking about? I didn't post that. :D

Does it say my post was edited?

[813Jag]

What are you talking about? I didn't post that. :D

Does it say my post was edited?
I noticed it magically changed xlolx

[Nickels]

Texas Southern, Southern, who cares?

[Nickels]

I noticed it magically changed xlolx
Magic? We call it white privilege.

[813Jag]

Texas Southern, Southern, who cares?
You're right, nice job in the Baton Rouge regional by the Cougars.

Sent from my HTC VLE_U using Tapatalk

[Nickels]

You're right, nice job in the Baton Rouge regional by the Cougars.

Sent from my HTC VLE_U using Tapatalk
Baton Rouge aka The Bayou City

[813Jag]

Baton Rouge aka The Bayou City

That 63 points yall put on us in Reliant last year really hurt.

Sent from my HTC VLE_U using Tapatalk

[Panther88]

Oh, my post was deleted. xsmhx

Censorship much? I thought it was a valid response, btw.

[bluedog]

To me a slam dunk draftee is someone you know will get drafted for sure and probably will go in the top 4 or 5 rounds.

You say no slam dunks? Since Steve McNair there have been probably 150 slam dunk draft picks. You forget first round picks Joe Flacco and DRC from Tenn State. Then we have seen Dexter Coakley, potential hall of famer Terrell Owens, Terron Armstead, Jimmy Garoppolo, etc. There have been a TON of slam dunk draftees. There have been a couple like Armstead since McNair. You have to get out of the 1980s and early 1990s in your thinking. The SWAC has had slam dunk draft picks and FCS has had A LOT of them.

McNair has also been beaten out as the best QB in FCS history in the last 15 years with Armanti Edwards coming through and winning the Walter Payton Award twice as well as going in the 3rd round. Edwards was a slam dunk draft pick who just has not been used right in the NFL.

I totally forgot about Terron Armstead, hell and he plays for my Saints not to mention I follow him on twitter. (because he's not in a skill position I guess)

My bad, you tend to not see those other guys as a former FCS player when watching them on Sundays, when you live in a different region and there's no TV coverage of them.

As for Armanti Edwards beating out Steve McNair as the best FCS QB in history because he's won the Walter Payton awards twice, is a serious matter of opinion. xlolx


There's a couple other former FCS QB's that have a much better resume than that. If you want to use the excuse they aren't using him right to bolster up your claim fine. I'm pretty sure he and Tim Tebow can have a pretty good pity party about that.

[smallcollegefbfan]

I totally forgot about Terron Armstead, hell and he plays for my Saints not to mention I follow him on twitter. (because he's not in a skill position I guess)

My bad, you tend to not see those other guys as a former FCS player when watching them on Sundays, when you live in a different region and there's no TV coverage of them.

As for Armanti Edwards beating out Steve McNair as the best FCS QB in history because he's won the Walter Payton awards twice, is a serious matter of opinion. xlolx


There's a couple other former FCS QB's that have a much better resume than that. If you want to use the excuse they aren't using him right to bolster up your claim fine. I'm pretty sure he and Tim Tebow can have a pretty good pity party about that.

NFL success has nothing to do with whether you are a great college player. McNair was the best and I'm sure all SWAC fans will say he still is, while the SoCon folks will say Edwards is. Edwards broke all the QB rushing records, beat Michigan, won two national titles, and won the Payton Award twice. If he had the same size as McNair then he would have been a first round pick as a QB. Edwards simply didn't make it in the NFL because he didn't have the frame and bulk to play QB and was a developmental player as a receiver. He should have been drafted in the 5th or 6th round instead of the 3rd. I think going so high put pressure to play him early and he fizzled out just like I believed he would. I said on here when he got drafted that it was too high, considering his situation.

[smallcollegefbfan]

#1 Facilities are one the rise at most schools and the marching band is a separate entity. Athletic money or time doesn't go there.
#2 I agree with more aggressive scheduling. 1 FBS game (regional) and 1 regional FCS (Southland/OVC), and for 12 game seasons hopefully a home FCS or if it must be done a solid DII.
#3 was one of the biggest problems in the SWAC. Some schools overpaid for coaches.
#4 not all teams take transfers with off the field issues, although that could apply to other FCS schools as well.
#5 don't see that happening in anyone's lifetime.

I won't speak for any other school but Southern fans will go to games whether the band is there or not.

Just saying it still seems as though people focus on the "battle of the bands" too much. As a scout, I watch coach's tape and thus I don't see cheerleaders or hear bands when I watch games. I don't really care about either unless I'm just a fan of that school and even then it's secondary to me, just a nice extra.

Maybe they are over paying bad coaches but you don't see a big name coach coming to the league bringing a great staff and keeping them. I was mostly talking about assistants though because there is a lot of turnover with the good coaches.

Several other teams take kids with troubled pasts for sure. Just saying that I have noticed that all the good ones in the SWAC are players I would personally not take.

SWAC needs to send their best team to the playoffs.

One attitude that is hurting the SWAC is a couple years ago I had an assistant coach once tell me he was going to stop giving out film to all-star games because Jackson State players weren't getting in them like they should. First, that's not the school's call but the director with each game. Second, any school that is not willing to give film to NFL teams, the Senior Bowl, NFLPA Bowl, or Shrine Game personnel is crazy, especially from the FCS level.

[smallcollegefbfan]

I'd go a step beyond and say a lot of them are living in the 50s/60s/70s w/ their thought processes w/ regards to athletic competivity, unfortunately.

Those days are over; however, if you listen to some of them, they speak of those yester-accomplishments as if they recently occurred fall 2013. xsmhx

Schools and fans need to live by the notion that unless a significant accomplishment happened in the last decade it does not count anymore, unless it's still the only time that specific accomplishment has happened. For example, now that NDSU has won 3 in a row, I don't think App State can still tout that and plus it's been a decade since their first, as well as the fact they probably don't care as much anymore now that they moved up to a higher level of D1.

[citdog]

I don't think App State can still tout that and plus it's been a decade since their first, as well as the fact they probably don't care as much anymore now that they moved up to a higher level of D1.


Who?

TOUCHDOWN THE CITADEL!

[bluedog]

There are simple solutions for the SWAC, if they want to upgrade talent and ultmateily see more players in the NFL.

1. Upgrade facilities and put more time in football than in the marching band.

You're pretty good at sterotypes I see. What conference in the FCS schools have these FACILLITIES that are so head and shoulder above the SWAC?

2. Schedule CAA, SoCon, and Southland teams regularly, along with making sure a good FBS money game is on tap.

Slightly agree

3. Increase the pay of coaches and make a commitment to getting some good name coaches in the league.

So you think $150,000- $200,000 range isn't enough? Well to that sir I say...Just where the hell do you think we're going to get that money. This is the FCS not the BCS/FBS, IMO this is one of the major problems with college sports today.

College sports shouldn't be a damn arms race and IMO there isn't a coach out there worth over $500,000

4. Take a stance and stop taking transfers with a lot of off the field issues.

When did one or two players become a lot? I'd love to see your list, since you work for the boys I know you have one.

Appears to me that the BlueHens got the pick of the litter when it comes to that? Is it ok for them or any other FCS schools? http://www.collegefootballsaturday.com/?p=5282 (http://www.collegefootballsaturday.com/?p=5282)

5. Apply to have an autobid in the playoffs by playing their conference championship game the week before the playoffs and giving the bid to that winner.

Why? It's a known loser in terms of attendance and money. It would seems to me that if the NCAA really cared about the FCS level they would move the first round back a week to get their best game attending conference in.

BIRMINGHAM, Ala. – In the first year of moving its football championship and basketball tournament to Houston, the Southwestern Athletic Conference announced today that it received a significant increase in attendance for both events.
The football championship and basketball tournament combined, including events sponsored by the SWAC during the week, totaled 87,492 in attendance. The basketball tournament numbers increased 23 percent from the previous year reaching 45,390. The attendance from the tournament games totaled 33,836, receiving an increase of more than 12,000 from last year.
In regards to the economic impact on the Houston metropolitan area, the football championship game was estimated at $44 million and the basketball tournament at more than $3.5 million.
The football championship game attendance jumped into the record books ranking third all time at 38,985. The attendance ranked 29 out of 44 NCAA Division I FBS and FCS combined conference championships and bowl games. For the FCS games attended across the nation in 2013, it ranked sixth overall, joining five other SWAC match ups listed in the top 12.
http://www.swac.org/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=27400&ATCLID=209506992
Also, SWAC Football Championship outdrew the Advocare 100 Bowl (Shreveport Indy Bowl), the Mountain West championship game, the Conference USA championship game, MAC Championship, and other smaller bowl games featuring FBS teams. If you follow the link, the PDFs are there.... but ... here are the other PDFs with the data below
Bowl Championship Attendance http://www.swac.org/pdf9/2727549.pdf
SWAC Attendance head-to-head http://www.swac.org/pdf9/2727550.pdf
FBS & FCS Attendance leaders and other data http://www.swac.org/pdf9/2727551.pdf


......Yeah that makes CENT$
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd69/bluedog_su/MAXX/Pictures/swactournament.jpg


SWAC fans can't complain until all of the above is done and they show that the marching bands aren't the most important thing. Some people just want to complain about something and I'm not saying he is because I think there are fans from every league who find something minor to complain about.

That last comment just comes across as sheer ignorance and makes you come across as another lame poster that get his information about the SWAC from some cheap student article and takes it as gospel.


Anybody with any knowledge of college sport knows that the athletic budget and the bands budget are two separate things.

[Nickels]

That last comment just comes across as sheer ignorance and makes you come across as another lame poster that get his information about the SWAC from some cheap student article and takes it as gospel.


Anybody with any knowledge of college sport knows that the athletic budget and the bands budget are two separate things.

And anyone with any knowledge of college sports knows that most athletic budgets are heavily subsidized by their respective Universities. You know, the same group that decides band and every other programs budget.

and you the audacity to judge another person's ignorance. xlolx

[Nickels]

For example
Southern provided $4,577,853 to their athletic program
SHSU provided $9,185,788 (near SLC average)
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/schools/finances/

[813Jag]

Just saying it still seems as though people focus on the "battle of the bands" too much. As a scout, I watch coach's tape and thus I don't see cheerleaders or hear bands when I watch games. I don't really care about either unless I'm just a fan of that school and even then it's secondary to me, just a nice extra.

Maybe they are over paying bad coaches but you don't see a big name coach coming to the league bringing a great staff and keeping them. I was mostly talking about assistants though because there is a lot of turnover with the good coaches.

Several other teams take kids with troubled pasts for sure. Just saying that I have noticed that all the good ones in the SWAC are players I would personally not take.

SWAC needs to send their best team to the playoffs.

One attitude that is hurting the SWAC is a couple years ago I had an assistant coach once tell me he was going to stop giving out film to all-star games because Jackson State players weren't getting in them like they should. First, that's not the school's call but the director with each game. Second, any school that is not willing to give film to NFL teams, the Senior Bowl, NFLPA Bowl, or Shrine Game personnel is crazy, especially from the FCS level.

I'll just say this about the band issue, yes there are people that go to the games for the bands but there's people that go to other FCS or FBS games for bands. Fact of the matter is most people are there for the game, Southern's attendance dropped during the Stump Mitchell days, why? Because the team wasn't winning, the band was there every home game. Me personally I'm not really a band person, its a plus at halftime if we're winning xlolx

As far as "troubled" kids that will be an issue in FCS since kids can transfer and not sit out. I think it helped and hurt Southern once kids stopped transferring in from LSU.

I'm all for the SWAC in the playoffs but don't see it happening.

I agree on your last point, you never turn down exposure.

Sent from my HTC VLE_U using Tapatalk

[bluedog]

Just saying it still seems as though people focus on the "battle of the bands" too much. As a scout, I watch coach's tape and thus I don't see cheerleaders or hear bands when I watch games. I don't really care about either unless I'm just a fan of that school and even then it's secondary to me, just a nice extra.

Maybe they are over paying bad coaches but you don't see a big name coach coming to the league bringing a great staff and keeping them. I was mostly talking about assistants though because there is a lot of turnover with the good coaches.

Several other teams take kids with troubled pasts for sure. Just saying that I have noticed that all the good ones in the SWAC are players I would personally not take.

SWAC needs to send their best team to the playoffs.

One attitude that is hurting the SWAC is a couple years ago I had an assistant coach once tell me he was going to stop giving out film to all-star games because Jackson State players weren't getting in them like they should. First, that's not the school's call but the director with each game. Second, any school that is not willing to give film to NFL teams, the Senior Bowl, NFLPA Bowl, or Shrine Game personnel is crazy, especially from the FCS level.

Actually it seems YOU focus to much on the bands. Granted a few schools student body live for that weekend and leave after halftime show is over, but what the hell does that have to do with football?

It's no different than the student body leaving after half time because a team is bad.

What would you have them do to make you fell better? Close their eyes while the band plays or just do away with the bands all together? Yeah I'm pretty sure that will help attract that better athlete you're talking about.

[Nickels]

Actually it seems YOU focus to much on the bands. Granted a few schools student body live for that weekend and leave after halftime show is over, but what the hell does that have to do with football?

It's no different than the student body leaving after half time because a team is bad.

What would you have then do to make you fell better? Close their eyes while the band plays or just do away with the bands all together? Yeah I'm pretty sure that will help attract that better athlete you're talking about.
Are you going to address your mistake and apologize to the man?

That last comment just comes across as sheer ignorance and makes you come across as another lame poster that get his information about the SWAC from some cheap student article and takes it as gospel.


Anybody with any knowledge of college sport knows that the athletic budget and the bands budget are two separate things.

And anyone with any knowledge of college sports knows that most athletic budgets are heavily subsidized by their respective Universities. You know, the same group that decides band and every other programs budget.

and you the audacity to judge another person's ignorance. xlolx

[AggieManiac704]

I'm going to assume (its the only year in Houston so its all I have to go off of) that last years SCG was a huge success due to it being JSU/Southern......one of the highest attended FCS/HBCU games....when in Jackson,MS......I know some friends that leave here (North Carolina) to catch the game because it is an event football & bandwise......(That and there was a BOTB right after the game)

I can guarantee Duer Sharp was happy as heyal those two teams wound up in the championship. now lets see the attendance figures with two teams that dont have a cross-divisional rivalry in the ship...something to compare the numbers to.

[GAD]

I'll just say this about the band issue, yes there are people that go to the games for the bands but there's people that go to other FCS or FBS games for bands. Fact of the matter is most people are there for the game, Southern's attendance dropped during the Stump Mitchell days, why? Because the team wasn't winning, the band was there every home game. Me personally I'm not really a band person, its a plus at halftime if we're winning xlolx

As far as "troubled" kids that will be an issue in FCS since kids can transfer and not sit out. I think it helped and hurt Southern once kids stopped transferring in from LSU.

I'm all for the SWAC in the playoffs but don't see it happening.

I agree on your last point, you never turn down exposure.

Sent from my HTC VLE_U using Tapatalk
How often do HBCU posters even bring up bands? but they say we think about them to much

[bluedog]

I'm going to assume (its the only year in Houston so its all I have to go off of) that last years SCG was a huge success due to it being JSU/Southern......one of the highest attended FCS/HBCU games....when in Jackson,MS......I know some friends that leave here (North Carolina) to catch the game because it is an event football & bandwise......(That and there was a BOTB right after the game)

I can guarantee Duer Sharp was happy as heyal those two teams wound up in the championship. now lets see the attendance figures with two teams that dont have a cross-divisional rivalry in the ship...something to compare the numbers to.

I love this kind of simple logic.

You're right but what's the big news about that? What attendance success isn't relied on the teams that are playing?

But I'll say this, Houston is more centrally located and has a better diversity of SWAC Alums for most Fans and simply is more fan friendly. (A Big Easy West )

The fact that you had fans from ATL. driving in that wouldn't go the Bham says a lot to me.


You're going to get more people attending just because it's in Houston. I already have my rooms books and I'll be there whether Southern makes it or not.

[Nickels]

I love this kind of simple logic.

You're right but what's the big news about that? What attendance success isn't relied on the teams that are playing?

But I'll say this, Houston is more centrally located and has a better diversity of SWAC Alums for most Fans and simply is more fan friendly. (A Big Easy West )

The fact that you had fans from ATL. driving in that wouldn't go the Bham says a lot to me.


You're going to get more people attending just because it's in Houston. I already have my rooms books and I'll be there whether Southern makes it or not.
I guess that means no, you're not a man of integrity.

[bluedog]

How often do HBCU posters even bring up bands? but they say we think about them to much

Exactly! As I said he seems to be the one focus on the bands when he should be focusing on the players.

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd69/bluedog_su/MAXX/Pictures/replacementplayers.jpg

xlolx

[smallcollegefbfan]

That last comment just comes across as sheer ignorance and makes you come across as another lame poster that get his information about the SWAC from some cheap student article and takes it as gospel.

Anybody with any knowledge of college sport knows that the athletic budget and the bands budget are two separate things.

I wasn't talking about school administrators but the fans. It seems your fans and really the SWAC in general just puts more emphasis on the battles of the bands than on the actual game. Listen to the broadcast of the SWAC game and yet you hear more about bands than individual players, outside of one or two they focus on. I know you posters here aren't focused on the bands but every time I have seen SWAC games on TV you hear Jay and the other broadcasters make a huge deal about it. I think SWAC football fans are just like those from everywhere else and worry more about the actual game.

I don't read any SWAC student articles. Yes, I know the money made off the SWAC title game is a lot and I don't blame the SWAC for doing what they are doing. I'm just saying if you want to say you guys have equal talent and belong in the playoffs you need to move your game and really push to play in the playoffs. That is if YOU care about that. I think the SWAC is doing the smart money maker and keeping it like it is. If they weren't making a lot of money on the title game, they would do something about it.

Having the most attendance as a league doesn't have any bearing on if you succeed in the playoffs or not. To be honest, I think the playoffs are best with 16 or 20 teams. Having 24 or more is just too watered down for me. The first week's games aren't even on TV and usually there are some bad teams so I don't think many fans pay much attention to those games outside of the score to see who is still in it. I watch those games because it's my job but I doubt many fans do.

Considering no SWAC team was ranked in the top 35, I don't think any media, SIDs, or coaches believed that the SWAC had a team who would have made any impact in the playoffs. I don't see the NCAA moving the playoffs for any league, including the CAA, SoCon, Big Sky, etc. if they had the title game the same week. The SWAC and the Ivy League both are content not participating in the playoffs and they have both made it perfectly clear. That's fine. I'm just saying don't complain about not being rated high or getting respect if you don't want to get on the field and play with everyone else. Ivy League is in the same boat. They are happy not going to the playoffs and keeping the status quo. It's fine with me if any league wants to do that but I don't think fans should be complaining here but instead complaining to their school presidents to get it changed.

Don't ever accuse me or anyone else of not knowing anything about football or this level of play after you made the comment about no slam dunk draft pick outside of McNair. LOL. You complained about the SWAC not getting respect and I have just given you reasons that those outside of the SWAC may notice that could help you get that respect. As for talent, the league just doesn't have the talent it had in the 70s and 80s. Will that change in the next 10 years? Very possibly. Just don't accuse the NFL of overlooking the SWAC, when in reality those who see every SWAC can't game can't bring up a slam dunk draft pick.

[Panther88]

I think SWAC football fans are just like those from everywhere else and worry more about the actual game.



You scared me for a few lol. Thanks for actually saying it so that others who read it will understand it. :)

[813Jag]

I wasn't talking about school administrators but the fans. It seems your fans and really the SWAC in general just puts more emphasis on the battles of the bands than on the actual game. Listen to the broadcast of the SWAC game and yet you hear more about bands than individual players, outside of one or two they focus on. I know you posters here aren't focused on the bands but every time I have seen SWAC games on TV you hear Jay and the other broadcasters make a huge deal about it. I think SWAC football fans are just like those from everywhere else and worry more about the actual game.

I don't read any SWAC student articles. Yes, I know the money made off the SWAC title game is a lot and I don't blame the SWAC for doing what they are doing. I'm just saying if you want to say you guys have equal talent and belong in the playoffs you need to move your game and really push to play in the playoffs. That is if YOU care about that. I think the SWAC is doing the smart money maker and keeping it like it is. If they weren't making a lot of money on the title game, they would do something about it.

Having the most attendance as a league doesn't have any bearing on if you succeed in the playoffs or not. To be honest, I think the playoffs are best with 16 or 20 teams. Having 24 or more is just too watered down for me. The first week's games aren't even on TV and usually there are some bad teams so I don't think many fans pay much attention to those games outside of the score to see who is still in it. I watch those games because it's my job but I doubt many fans do.

Considering no SWAC team was ranked in the top 35, I don't think any media, SIDs, or coaches believed that the SWAC had a team who would have made any impact in the playoffs. I don't see the NCAA moving the playoffs for any league, including the CAA, SoCon, Big Sky, etc. if they had the title game the same week. The SWAC and the Ivy League both are content not participating in the playoffs and they have both made it perfectly clear. That's fine. I'm just saying don't complain about not being rated high or getting respect if you don't want to get on the field and play with everyone else. Ivy League is in the same boat. They are happy not going to the playoffs and keeping the status quo. It's fine with me if any league wants to do that but I don't think fans should be complaining here but instead complaining to their school presidents to get it changed.

Don't ever accuse me or anyone else of not knowing anything about football or this level of play after you made the comment about no slam dunk draft pick outside of McNair. LOL. You complained about the SWAC not getting respect and I have just given you reasons that those outside of the SWAC may notice that could help you get that respect. As for talent, the league just doesn't have the talent it had in the 70s and 80s. Will that change in the next 10 years? Very possibly. Just don't accuse the NFL of overlooking the SWAC, when in reality those who see every SWAC can't game can't bring up a slam dunk draft pick.
that's E$PN for you, they spend most FCS games talking about transfers(and anything else they can think of) and not the actual game going on.

[smallcollegefbfan]

You scared me for a few lol. Thanks for actually saying it so that others who read it will understand it. :)

LOL. The whole argument began with the SWAC not getting respect in the NFL Draft and notice how it got into everything else and still no names brought up? I think everyone knows that this year the SWAC and MEAC simply didn't have anyone who should be drafted, outside of Isaiah Crowell, and we know why he didn't. I don't mean to bash Crowell, because I'm not. He's a great player and someone who would have been drafted without the off field issues, which are widely publicized from the past.

[smallcollegefbfan]

that's E$PN for you, they spend most FCS games talking about transfers(and anything else they can think of) and not the actual game going on.

I guess that's why I try not to watch TV games anymore. It's like on draft day when pick 199 comes across and they simply show it on the screen but don't tell anything about the player, instead focusing on Johnny Manziel. I always laugh when the player they spent two days talking about once drafted is a bust and pick 199 ends up being a Tom Brady. I have learned that many times in the 6th and 7th round there are players picked that they probably avoid talking about because Kiper has them 80th at their position and doesn't have much info on them.

[Panther88]

SCFBF, I see a TON of D-I football talent yearly in numerous school districts in and around the greater houston and dallas/fort worth metro areas. It's almost mind boggling how, speaking on the one I know, PVAMU doesn't attempt to recruit local-type talent and would rather travel outside the texas borders for 88+% of a 2013 and 2014 recruiting class. I thought high school football was king in texas. xconfusedx I thought that was the reasoning why every major D-I university on planet earth recruits texas. Is the message conveyed by a PVAMU that they do not consider themselves a major D-I university? Hmmmmmmmmmm.......

[813Jag]

SCFBF, I see a TON of D-I football talent yearly in numerous school districts in and around the greater houston and dallas/fort worth metro areas. It's almost mind boggling how, speaking on the one I know - PVAMU, doesn't attempt to recruit local-type talent and would rather travel outside the texas borders for 88+% of a 2013 and 2014 recruiting class. I thought high school football was king in texas. xconfusedx I thought that was the reasoning why every major D-I university on planet earth recruits texas. Is the message conveyed by a PVAMU that they do not consider themselves a major D-I university? Hmmmmmmmmmm.......
that's the biggest difference I see between Stump and Odums, Odums made it a big priority to set up relationships with local schools especially along the I-10 corridor. And still dip into Texas. Now hopefully we can have some better nonconference performances this season.

[smallcollegefbfan]

SCFBF, I see a TON of D-I football talent yearly in numerous school districts in and around the greater houston and dallas/fort worth metro areas. It's almost mind boggling how, speaking on the one I know - PVAMU, doesn't attempt to recruit local-type talent and would rather travel outside the texas borders for 88+% of a 2013 and 2014 recruiting class. I thought high school football was king in texas. xconfusedx I thought that was the reasoning why every major D-I university on planet earth recruits texas. Is the message conveyed by a PVAMU that they do not consider themselves a major D-I university? Hmmmmmmmmmm.......

There is a ton of it. Does PVAMU perhaps feel they just can't get those guys because everyone they find talented is going to a FBS school? I'm not sure. Houston and Dallas alone have enough talent that you could make a good FBS football team from it.

[Nickels]

There is a ton of it. Does PVAMU perhaps feel they just can't get those guys because everyone they find talented is going to a FBS school? I'm not sure. Houston and Dallas alone have enough talent that you could make a good FBS football team from it.
SWAC is a last resort for any of these athletes.

[Nickels]

The on the field product speaks for itself.

[bluedog]

I wasn't talking about school administrators but the fans. It seems your fans and really the SWAC in general just puts more emphasis on the battles of the bands than on the actual game. Listen to the broadcast of the SWAC game and yet you hear more about bands than individual players, outside of one or two they focus on.

As if you listen to every SWAC or HBCU game. C'mon son!

You really have no clue as to how much you're sterotyping do you?

I know exactly what you are talking about, the point I'm making is if a person charge is to recruit what does that have to do with the athlete? Their job is to watch and see for themselves to evaluate, not listen to a radio broadcast or watch the band.

- - - Updated - - -

[bluedog]

LOL. The whole argument began with the SWAC not getting respect in the NFL Draft and notice how it got into everything else and still no names brought up? I think everyone knows that this year the SWAC and MEAC simply didn't have anyone who should be drafted, outside of Isaiah Crowell, and we know why he didn't. I don't mean to bash Crowell, because I'm not. He's a great player and someone who would have been drafted without the off field issues, which are widely publicized from the past.


Not true, actually it started from this one question and from there you did a lot of assuming and than you continued to pontificate about things that had absolutely nothing to do with the question.


That's funny. Just means the NFL talent in the leagues are down. There were some good players in the SWAC this past year but they either had off field issues or just lacked enough speed to get drafted.
As for the MEAC, I know for a fact at least 2 MEAC players are expected to get drafted as of right now in 2015. If that happens, what will they say then?

Just where do you folks get this stuff from?

[Panther88]

that's the biggest difference I see between Stump and Odums, Odums made it a big priority to set up relationships with local schools especially along the I-10 corridor. And still dip into Texas. Now hopefully we can have some better nonconference performances this season.

One must maximize local prdcts first and foremost if one desires to be successful. Granted, there are a few stars here and there (from La) that I think should have been recruited. But the fact remains that a texas D-I university, for the 2nd consecutive year, has recruited out-of-state to the clip of > 88+%. That's very telling, imho.

[smallcollegefbfan]

As if you listen to every SWAC or HBCU game. C'mon son!

You really have no clue as to how much you're sterotyping do you?

I know exactly what you are talking about, the point I'm making is if a person charge is to recruit what does that have to do with the athlete? Their job is to watch and see for themselves to evaluate, not listen to a radio broadcast or watch the band.

- - - Updated - - -

You do realize that coaches and scouts occasionally watch a game as a fan and not for work? I have the right to turn on CBS or ESPN and watch a game I don't have to for work. I'm not going to watch Alabama on coach's tape because that's not my area but I will watch them play in the national title game just to enjoy it and of course I have to listen to the broadcast. I found myself at home not having to go to a game on a Thursday night and I saw the SWAC was on. I peaked just to see how the teams looked and happened to hear the broadcast.

I probably watch 15-20 SWAC games a year on the iPad to make sure I see every team at least once or twice.

I'm sure you realize that those of us who get paid to scout don't care what the broadcast says about a player.

[Panther88]

There is a ton of it. Does PVAMU perhaps feel they just can't get those guys because everyone they find talented is going to a FBS school? I'm not sure. Houston and Dallas alone have enough talent that you could make a good FBS football team from it.

I think that's the prevailing mindset, for the most part. I've been bytching about this for the last few years now - the fact that recruiters do not even visit the local HSs and obviously are not attempting to sufficiently reach out to the local powerhouse HSs and attempt to forge some type of relationship, as Strong is doing, Sumlin, Briles is doing, Klingsbury is doing, et al. And you are absolutely correct. Talent from JUST the DFW/houston surrounding areas has enough talent to field 10 FBS schools, yearly.

[smallcollegefbfan]

One must maximize local prdcts first and foremost if one desires to be successful. Granted, there are a few stars here and there (from La) that I think should have been recruited. But the fact remains that a texas D-I university, for the 2nd consecutive year, has recruited out-of-state to the clip of > 88+%. That's very telling, imho.

It is very interesting.

[Panther88]

SWAC is a last resort for any of these athletes.

Hey guy, why don't you drive south on IH45 @ 4:45pm CST today and walk across the 6-lanes of traffic during rush hour. It would have a greater impact here instead of you posting your estrogenal & emotional-laden rants of nothingness related to "D-I college football." Gott damn get a clue, dweeb. You are not contributing anything of substance to this forum. GTFOOH!

[Nickels]

Hey guy, why don't you drive south on IH45 @ 4:45pm CST today and walk across the 6-lanes of traffic during rush hour. It would have a greater impact here instead of you posting your estrogenal & emotional-laden rants of nothingness related to "D-I college football." Gott damn get a clue, dweeb. You are not contributing anything of substance to this forum. GTFOOH!
What I write is rants? Have you ever read one your own post?

[bluedog]

You do realize that coaches and scouts occasionally watch a game as a fan and not for work? I have the right to turn on CBS or ESPN and watch a game I don't have to for work. I'm not going to watch Alabama on coach's tape because that's not my area but I will watch them play in the national title game just to enjoy it and of course I have to listen to the broadcast. I found myself at home not having to go to a game on a Thursday night and I saw the SWAC was on. I peaked just to see how the teams looked and happened to hear the broadcast.

I probably watch 15-20 SWAC games a year on the iPad to make sure I see every team at least once or twice.

I'm sure you realize that those of us who get paid to scout don't care what the broadcast says about a player.

Which makes it even more confusing as to why you keep bringing that and the band up as issues, as if either as anything to do with the with the product on the field.

[smallcollegefbfan]

Which makes it even more confusing as to why you keep bringing that and the band up as issues, as if either as anything to do with the with the product on the field.

I initially brought it up once. Back to the topic. It seems like you agree that the SWAC just didn't have anyone who was a slam dunk draft pick this year so I guess in the end we all agree?

[bluedog]

I initially brought it up once. Back to the topic. It seems like you agree that the SWAC just didn't have anyone who was a slam dunk draft pick this year so I guess in the end we all agree?


Actually it more like four or five times, but I digress.

I thought I made that clear about 51 posts ago.

[smallcollegefbfan]

Actually it more like four or five times, but I digress.

I thought I made that clear about 51 posts ago.

Just summarizing for those who may not have followed the whole thread!

Interesting to point out that most undrafted players from FCS who contribute in the NFL come from the CAA, SoCon, and MVFC. Those leagues aren't considered underrated and yet still have players who fall out of the draft when they should not.

[TexasTerror]

I wasn't talking about school administrators but the fans. It seems your fans and really the SWAC in general just puts more emphasis on the battles of the bands than on the actual game. Listen to the broadcast of the SWAC game and yet you hear more about bands than individual players, outside of one or two they focus on. I know you posters here aren't focused on the bands but every time I have seen SWAC games on TV you hear Jay and the other broadcasters make a huge deal about it. I think SWAC football fans are just like those from everywhere else and worry more about the actual game.

It's funny. Just reading this thread & I just saw a 're-tweet' show up on my TweetDeck... LOL.

What does @MEAC_SWAC (https://twitter.com/MEAC_SWAC) mean? One word: BANDS. Don't miss the Alabama A&M Marching Maroon. @ESPNEvents (https://twitter.com/ESPNEvents) @espn (https://twitter.com/espn) #THEWAC (https://twitter.com/hashtag/THEWAC?src=hash) pic.twitter.com/VsAf4LfgAg (http://t.co/VsAf4LfgAg)

Courtesy of The SWAC (https://twitter.com/theswac/status/473580449814421504)

Alright, you guys go back to what you were doing...

[Atouk]

As for the MEAC, I know for a fact at least 2 MEAC players are expected to get drafted as of right now in 2015.I'd be interested in who those are, if you don't mind saying. Thanks.

[smallcollegefbfan]

I'd be interested in who those are, if you don't mind saying. Thanks.

Ask me in December when the regular season is over. Let it play out and see how the guys I'm thinking are looking and give those not on that short list a chance to play their way on it.

[Atouk]

Ask me in December when the regular season is over. Let it play out and see how the guys I'm thinking are looking and give those not on that short list a chance to play their way on it.Will do. Fair enough. Thanks.

[Nugget49er]

Pretty much. I've made this argument several times before. If you need more anecdotal evidence, ask an A&T fan about their I-40 rivalry with Elon. xlolx

I'll be interested to see how Charlotte travels when we play them this year; and I hope Towson is ready. Our DC alumni chapter is one of the biggest ones. I've seen us bring 4,000 to Morgan State.

Speaking of Charlotte traveling, I was doing a little pre-season scouting (for tailgating) and ran across rule # 5 on your website. What is this nonsense? I expect it at Campbell, but a state supported school? Why?

5. Alcohol is prohibited. The State statutes and University regulations on drug and alcohol consumptions will be enforced. All common containers (kegs) are prohibited.

http://www.nccueaglepride.com/sports/2010/8/26/ATHL_0826102654.aspx

[citdog]

Speaking of Charlotte traveling, I was doing a little pre-season scouting (for tailgating) and ran across rule # 5 on your website. What is this nonsense? I expect it at Campbell, but a state supported school? Why?

5. Alcohol is prohibited. The State statutes and University regulations on drug and alcohol consumptions will be enforced. All common containers (kegs) are prohibited.

http://www.nccueaglepride.com/sports/2010/8/26/ATHL_0826102654.aspx


Bring your keg to Charleston! Place a guard around it though as Cadets are known to be QUITE thirsty.

[Nugget49er]

Bring your keg to Charleston! Place a guard around it though as Cadets are known to be QUITE thirsty.
I may just take you up on that citdog. A weekend in Durham or Charleston? Folly Beach here I come.

[WileECoyote06]

Speaking of Charlotte traveling, I was doing a little pre-season scouting (for tailgating) and ran across rule # 5 on your website. What is this nonsense? I expect it at Campbell, but a state supported school? Why?

5. Alcohol is prohibited. The State statutes and University regulations on drug and alcohol consumptions will be enforced. All common containers (kegs) are prohibited.

http://www.nccueaglepride.com/sports/2010/8/26/ATHL_0826102654.aspx


It's more-so prohibition for students. Because of the way our football stadium is on the campus, the students generally enter from one side of the stadium, while the alumni and fans tailgate on the other side of the stadium. Nobody enforces the no-alcohol rule for tailgaters, but think of it as though you were drinking in a city park. We keep a 'spirits' tub on my plot, but put our drinks in cups.

[WileECoyote06]

I may just take you up on that citdog. A weekend in Durham or Charleston? Folly Beach here I come.

I mean is that really a fair choice? Durham is great, but it ain't a tourist town like Charleston. But if you do come to the Bull, make sure you take advantage of our great restaurant scene.

[citdog]

I mean is that really a fair choice? Durham is great, but it ain't a tourist town like Charleston. But if you do come to the Bull, make sure you take advantage of our great restaurant scene.

No it really isn't. The rest of the South has an inferiority complex regarding Charleston and they SHOULD.