SEC Coaches Divided Over FCS Games

[TexasTerror]

The bottom end SEC teams will want to keep playing FCS games... because its tough to get to six wins without keeping as many games possible at home, in addition to the new rule in which they have to schedule a P5 team each year outside of SEC play.

If I were a Kentucky or of late, Tennessee... I'd want to keep the schedule manageable to get to six wins!


---

One of the hot topics today at the annual SEC Spring meetings is the scheduling of Football Championship Subdivision (FCS) teams.


FBS schools typically schedule FCS opponents for a few reasons — to ensure a home game without a return visit, to bring in additional revenue, and to notch a win for bowl eligibility.


Most SEC schools are scheduling FCS teams for the first two reasons. It’s primarily a money-making decision because an extra home game brings in $1-3 million in revenue, depending on the school. A few others need that extra win to qualify for a bowl.


But playing the SEC and other FBS schools helps the FCS teams add around $300-500K to their own coffers. Plus there’s always the chance that the little guy will rise up to defeat the big school, as 16 FCS schools did last season.


All of those factors have resulted in a divide over whether or not to continue scheduling FCS teams. Here’s a look at the position of each SEC school as stated at the Spring meetings this week (others will be added as necessary).

Full Story (http://www.fbschedules.com/2014/05/sec-coaches-divided-scheduling-fcs-teams/)

[dewey]

We all know as college football fans if a SEC school went undefeated at the end of the season they are playing in the Final 4 playoff scenario whether or not there is an FCS school on their schedule or not. I am not so sure other conferences can say that but what is the chances of 1 team from each of the Power 5 going undefeated? I would say really small.

I was kind of surprised to see the Georgia head coach support playing FCS schools and that he seems to understand how important those FBS games are for FCS school athletic department budgets.

Dewey

[ThompsonThe]

Florida announced no more FCS games.

http://www.fbschedules.com/2014/05/florida-move-forward-without-scheduling-fcs-schools/#comment-20432

[McNeese72]

I wonder how LSU comes down on this???? We open with them in 2015.

Doc

[SpiritCymbal]

I wonder how LSU comes down on this???? We open with them in 2015.

Doc

It may come down to the impact of playing 1-aa teams affects this year's "playoff". If the selection committee knocks a school out or even down a seeding due to playing a 1-aa team, then LSU may op to buy out McNeese and try to schedule a G5 school to keep their championship hopes up. But if there's no apparent consequence for Bama playing WCU, Auburn playing Samford, Oregon playing S. Dakota, etc... then there's no reason to fret.

[BEAR]

Arkansas needs FCS games. It's the only way those cellar-dwellers can make a bowl game most years. Yeah they had a couple good ones...in over 20 years in the SEC...but seriously they need a rent-a-win to make it that's why they choose Nicholls for the W. I can't see teams like that NOT playing FCS.

[BEAR]

It may come down to the impact of playing 1-aa teams affects this year's "playoff". If the selection committee knocks a school out or even down a seeding due to playing a 1-aa team, then LSU may op to buy out McNeese and try to schedule a G5 school to keep their championship hopes up. But if there's no apparent consequence for Bama playing WCU, Auburn playing Samford, Oregon playing S. Dakota, etc... then there's no reason to fret.

For midlevel BCS teams to make it to the title game without winning the SEC, they are going to have to schedule better. That means IF they are scheduling an FCS, it had better be a top 10 team. If not, they had better go for a lower level FBS. Unless of course they know they are in a conference with teams like Bama, Florida, LSU, and Auburn to name a few and their hopes of national glory are shot even before they step on the field.

[Catatonic]

I wonder how LSU comes down on this???? We open with them in 2015.

Doc

LSU, Georgia and Ole Miss all plan to continue scheduling FCS teams.

Florida's prolly just mad cause Ga Southern whooped em.

[SpiritCymbal]

I wonder how LSU comes down on this???? We open with them in 2015.

Doc

Miles said today that he still favors scheduling 1-aa teams, so unless the playoff committee hammers teams that play 1-aa, you're good to go.

- - - Updated - - -


LSU, Georgia and Ole Miss all plan to continue scheduling FCS teams.

Florida's prolly just mad cause Ga Southern whooped em.

Spurrier also said that he doesn't mind playing in-state 1-aa teams too.

[ThompsonThe]

They do not know exactly how to handle the Access Bowl requirements right now. Arkansas State said Friday they would no longer play FCS schools again.
Not so sure FCS schools have a lot to worry about right now. Main thing will be if there is a decision made over the next few years concerning someone playing an FCS team, then it might become a panic situation. Too much money to be made on playing them right now.

[Southern Bison]

Last fall, I was sitting near some SEC school fans and they knew who NDSU was and what we'd done in the NCs & against FBS. Their SEC arrogance was off the charts that we couldn't even compete with the SEC bottomfeeders like Vandy, Ole Miss, Kentucky, etc. Sure, even the Bison wouldn't hold up well against Bama, LSU, or Georgia...but look at what did happen at the end of the season for a SEC perennial leader against an FCS team:


http://youtu.be/CYdd35cb6H8

[IBleedYellow]

From Twitter:
@MCMurphyESPN
"Bill Hancock on FCS teams impacting strength of schedule: "North Dakota State may be better than 'team Y' in 1 of our (FBS) conferences"

Honestly, I'm not worried. As long as the top FCS schools stay competitive, they will be allowed to be scheduled. Whether teams will WANT to schedule us is a different story entirely.

[BEAR]

I say the top 20 FCS teams MAKE them pay for it.

As for Arkansas State not playing anymore FCS schools... I think we are tentatively scheduled for 2016. But I'm sure that can be bought out to increase their chances of a national title run.

[McNeese72]

I say the top 20 FCS teams MAKE them pay for it.

As for Arkansas State not playing anymore FCS schools... I think we are tentatively scheduled for 2016. But I'm sure that can be bought out to increase their chances of a national title run.

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!

Doc

[citdog]

Arkansas State said Friday they would no longer play FCS schools.

This thread was about the SEC, an ACTUAL fbs conference. NOT your group of pretenders. The bletch just doesn't want to get BEAT.

[CrazyCat]

How much will all those new benefits cost that the group of 65 wants ? How much will a non 65 school now ask for 1 game against the power conferences ? things that make you go hmmmm.

[Professor Chaos]

I wish Muschamp and others *cough*BARRYALVAREZ*cough* would just come out and say the real reason why they don't want to play FCS teams and it's because they're scared. They know that FCS schools look at their FBS game as a chance to prove themselves and gain some national exposure and they know that they have a hard time motivating their own teams and convincing them to take an FCS squad seriously. They also know that the gap between upper level FCS teams and their mediocre Power 5 teams isn't as big as the common FBS fan likes to think. Quit hiding behind the "our fans want to see better opponents" BS and call it what it is, a no win scenario for your team.

[Cocky]

Just think how much SB teams will make if FCS games are ended. With few teams which would be easy wins supply and demand will take over. Ever SEC and B1G team can't play Troy, ULL and Ark St every year for a sure win.

[The Cats]

IMO the only two things that will prevent most of the P5 teams from playing FCS games - 1) those games are no longer counted toward bowl eligibility 2) having a FCS team on the schedule adversely effects the SOS of one of the top 4 or 5 teams preventing them from being in the FBS playoffs.

Individual schools such as Florida may decide not to schedule FCS teams, but we all know why FCS made that decision. Only some of the very top tier teams would probably make this move, if they feel a loss to a FCS team is just to much to bare.

Do you actually think Florida would have made this move IF they had crushed Georgia Southern last year? They should man up, like Michigan did, and invite GSU back for a repeat performance.

[darell1976]

I wish Muschamp and others *cough*BARRYALVAREZ*cough* would just come out and say the real reason why they don't want to play FCS teams and it's because they're scared. They know that FCS schools look at their FBS game as a chance to prove themselves and gain some national exposure and they know that they have a hard time motivating their own teams and convincing them to take an FCS squad seriously. They also know that the gap between upper level FCS teams and their mediocre Power 5 teams isn't as big as the common FBS fan likes to think. Quit hiding behind the "our fans want to see better opponents" BS and call it what it is, a no win scenario for your team.

Could you imagine Alvarez's reaction if NDSU went to Camp Randall and knocked off the Badgers. He would be on suicide watch.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

From Twitter:
@MCMurphyESPN
"Bill Hancock on FCS teams impacting strength of schedule: "North Dakota State may be better than 'team Y' in 1 of our (FBS) conferences"

Honestly, I'm not worried. As long as the top FCS schools stay competitive, they will be allowed to be scheduled. Whether teams will WANT to schedule us is a different story entirely.

It's always refreshing to read that the realities I've been saying now for years are now a proper part of the conversation.

[PaladinFan]

IMO the only two things that will prevent most of the P5 teams from playing FCS games - 1) those games are no longer counted toward bowl eligibility 2) having a FCS team on the schedule adversely effects the SOS of one of the top 4 or 5 teams preventing them from being in the FBS playoffs.

Individual schools such as Florida may decide not to schedule FCS teams, but we all know why FCS made that decision. Only some of the very top tier teams would probably make this move, if they feel a loss to a FCS team is just to much to bare.

Do you actually think Florida would have made this move IF they had crushed Georgia Southern last year? They should man up, like Michigan did, and invite GSU back for a repeat performance.

Folks tend to forget that Furman had (a much better) Florida on the ropes for four quarters in Gainseville three years ago as well. At the end of the day, losing to an FCS school is inexcusable in the strongest terms. It costs coaches their job. Will Muschamp after that Florida/Furman game looked like he'd seen a ghost, just blubbering his way through post game interviews. He'd almost blown his HC career before it'd even started.

Georgia Southern game was a second time Florida had been embarrassed by an FCS team at home in the last three seasons. That's tough to sell to a fan base.

[Catatonic]

I wish Muschamp and others *cough*BARRYALVAREZ*cough* would just come out and say the real reason why they don't want to play FCS teams and it's because they're scared. They know that FCS schools look at their FBS game as a chance to prove themselves and gain some national exposure and they know that they have a hard time motivating their own teams and convincing them to take an FCS squad seriously. They also know that the gap between upper level FCS teams and their mediocre Power 5 teams isn't as big as the common FBS fan likes to think. Quit hiding behind the "our fans want to see better opponents" BS and call it what it is, a no win scenario for your team.

I agree with your point that the better FCS teams are as good or better than many mid-majors and lower tier schools from P5 conferences. You are wrong however to say P5 to say that are "hiding" behind the "our fans want to see better opponents" argument. As a 30 plus year season ticket holder at a P5 school, I hated going to games against small schools. I was clearly not alone. Tickets were always readily available outside the stadium below face value and students stayed away in droves. The exception was when the smaller school opponent was from in-state. Far from a no win scenario, the big school gets the bonus of an extra home game each year and an almost certain win and a chance to rest most first teamers. I should add that same phenomenon exists when lower level mid majors are scheduled (A game against Idaho is as disappointing as a game against Nichols State.

[Catatonic]

Folks tend to forget that Furman had (a much better) Florida on the ropes for four quarters in Gainseville three years ago as well. At the end of the day, losing to an FCS school is inexcusable in the strongest terms. It costs coaches their job. Will Muschamp after that Florida/Furman game looked like he'd seen a ghost, just blubbering his way through post game interviews. He'd almost blown his HC career before it'd even started.

Georgia Southern game was a second time Florida had been embarrassed by an FCS team at home in the last three seasons. That's tough to sell to a fan base.

To their own fan base, for sure. The fan bases of other SEC schools love it. xlolx

[PaladinFan]

Just think how much SB teams will make if FCS games are ended. With few teams which would be easy wins supply and demand will take over. Ever SEC and B1G team can't play Troy, ULL and Ark St every year for a sure win.

I agree. For instance, Furman routinely plays Clemson and now has started seeing USC again (it only took them nearly 30 years after beating them in the early 80s to schedule us again). Those teams have to pay Furman a fraction of what they would have to pay a random FBS school to come play, still get a home gate and (likely) a win.

I do think that there's a mutual respect for Furman and Wofford between those two programs, though. Unlike many FBS schools, the South Carolina programs and their fans know how good the FCS programs in the state are and have been. They take us seriously.

[PaladinFan]

To their own fan base, for sure. The fan bases of other SEC schools love it. xlolx

At the end of the day, UF had bona fide world class sprinters at receiver (one competed in the Olympics in London). It's hard enough to overcome the scholarship gap in an FBS game, but I'm not sure there's an FCS team in the country that can put a player on the field that can run with those boys. You just hang on.

[walliver]

I don't anticipate a lot of change in the near future.
Nick Saban may not care for FCS, but his AD keeps scheduling Western Carolina.
Some P5 school may one day miss getting the 4th playoff spot by having an FCS school on the schedule, but some P5 school may miss out by losing to Boise State instead of winning against an FCS team.
If strength of schedule really matters, then scheduling any non-P5 school hurts, as does playing Wake Forest or Kentucky.
Most of the gloom-and-doom talk seems to come from the very soon to depart Hillbillies and Crackers, who have a great need to constantly remind us that FCS is failing and that the rest of us should just roll over and die. The Sun Belt crowd wants, craves, begs that the P5 ban FCS games in the hopes that they can charge more for money games, but the people running the Big Time programs are driven by money and know that paying an SBC team $2M when they can buy an FCS game for $300K-$400K makes no sense. To the fans of the top programs, every body else is division 2. A game against App State, might put some more butts in seats for Wake, Duke, or Eastern Carolina but is not going to outdraw a game against Western in Tuscaloosa. Other than BYU and BSU, no G5 members have great drawing power for Big Time programs.

On the other hand, college football as we know it may be sued out of business and many of us will end up in the Pioneer League. I would still uye season tickets and enjoy the games.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The Sun Belt crowd wants, craves, begs that the P5 ban FCS games in the hopes that they can charge more for money games, but the people running the Big Time programs are driven by money and know that paying an SBC team $2M when they can buy an FCS game for $300K-$400K makes no sense. To the fans of the top programs, every body else is division 2. A game against App State, might put some more butts in seats for Wake, Duke, or Eastern Carolina but is not going to outdraw a game against Western in Tuscaloosa. Other than BYU and BSU, no G5 members have great drawing power for Big Time programs.

In fact, I think that's the whole idea - keep the guarantee costs of their OOC games down.

[Professor Chaos]

I agree with your point that the better FCS teams are as good or better than many mid-majors and lower tier schools from P5 conferences. You are wrong however to say P5 to say that are "hiding" behind the "our fans want to see better opponents" argument. As a 30 plus year season ticket holder at a P5 school, I hated going to games against small schools. I was clearly not alone. Tickets were always readily available outside the stadium below face value and students stayed away in droves. The exception was when the smaller school opponent was from in-state. Far from a no win scenario, the big school gets the bonus of an extra home game each year and an almost certain win and a chance to rest most first teamers. I should add that same phenomenon exists when lower level mid majors are scheduled (A game against Idaho is as disappointing as a game against Nichols State.
And it makes a difference to you and other fans of like minds if your P5 school plays Western Kentucky instead of Eastern Kentucky? Moreover, if you want to only play schools with name recognition it's ok then to take a home game away each year because your P5 school will have to travel to another school with name recognition to repay them for coming to your home digs for a game?

I think Florida fans would be a little easier on the team and coaches if they lost to WKU instead of EKU because WKU has the FBS tag attached to them but I fail to see how that generates more fan interest in the games.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Over a year old, and still relevant:

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2013/02/b1gs-collossally-stupid-decision-to.html

[Herder]

For midlevel BCS teams to make it to the title game without winning the SEC, they are going to have to schedule better. That means IF they are scheduling an FCS, it had better be a top 10 team. If not, they had better go for a lower level FBS. Unless of course they know they are in a conference with teams like Bama, Florida, LSU, and Auburn to name a few and their hopes of national glory are shot even before they step on the field.

So, is it easier or harder to make a playoff field of 2 teams, or of 4 teams? Which is Easier? Obviously, it is easier to make a field of 4, than a field of 2, right? Why is scheduling a bigger deal now than it was previously?

Everyone is trying to spin the new playoff and SOS make their own self serving arguements. Have at it spin doctors.

[Catatonic]

I should add that same phenomenon exists when lower level mid majors are scheduled (A game against Idaho is as disappointing as a game against Nichols State.

See the above comment. Nope, no difference between lower mid-majors and FCS schools. I thought I'd made that clear.


And it makes a difference to you and other fans of like minds if your P5 school plays Western Kentucky instead of Eastern Kentucky? Moreover, if you want to only play schools with name recognition it's ok then to take a home game away each year because your P5 school will have to travel to another school with name recognition to repay them for coming to your home digs for a game?

I think Florida fans would be a little easier on the team and coaches if they lost to WKU instead of EKU because WKU has the FBS tag attached to them but I fail to see how that generates more fan interest in the games.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

All I know is Western Michigan's national title hopes were completely ruined by Nicholls' upset of them last year.

[Go Bison]

Could you imagine Alvarez's reaction if NDSU went to Camp Randall and knocked off the Badgers. He would be on suicide watch.

Well, Wisconsin already has had some big scares playing FCS teams. Cal Poly should have beat them back in 2008 when the Badgers got luck to win 36-35 in OT. Cal Poly missed 3 extra points and a FG at the end of the game. UNI gave them a very good game back in 2012 but Wisconsin pulled out a win 26-21. I know UNI had to ball at the end but couldn't get a drive together. Seems like the people most against playing FCS schools are the ones that either have gotten beat or known they should have been beaten by a FCS school.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Well, Wisconsin already has had some big scares playing FCS teams. Cal Poly should have beat them back in 2008 when the Badgers got luck to win 36-35 in OT. Cal Poly missed 3 extra points and a FG at the end of the game. UNI gave them a very good game back in 2012 but Wisconsin pulled out a win 26-21. I know UNI had to ball at the end but couldn't get a drive together. Seems like the people most against playing FCS schools are the ones that either have gotten beat or known they should have been beaten by a FCS school.

That also doesn't include citdog's pride and joy giving them the scare of their lives, leading during most (if not all) of the first half in a game there a few years ago.

[BEAR]

IMO the only two things that will prevent most of the P5 teams from playing FCS games - 1) those games are no longer counted toward bowl eligibility 2) having a FCS team on the schedule adversely effects the SOS of one of the top 4 or 5 teams preventing them from being in the FBS playoffs.

Individual schools such as Florida may decide not to schedule FCS teams, but we all know why FCS made that decision. Only some of the very top tier teams would probably make this move, if they feel a loss to a FCS team is just to much to bare.

Do you actually think Florida would have made this move IF they had crushed Georgia Southern last year? They should man up, like Michigan did, and invite GSU back for a repeat performance.

That's the theory in this state..that's why uaf doesn't play an instate school. Can you imagine Walmart's pet being nipped by a perennial top 15 FCS team like UCA. It would split the fanbase, the U would lose money, cheap tshirts at Wally world would go unsold, cats and dogs would live in peace, brimstone would fall down upon the Ozarks, the snake will sit with the child, oooooh never let it be so!

or

Life would go on and everyone would remember even a dog, or Bear, has its day every once in a while.


Oh wait, you said "top teir".... nevermind.

[BEAR]

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!

Doc

I nearly forgot ASU was a SLC team once. Wondered why you thought that was funny. Duh..

[MplsBison]

To every fan on here parroting that FBS schools should keep scheduling FCS teams: that must mean you advocate your team to schedule DII teams for home games. Right?

Must be. It's exactly the same argument. It works exactly the same in both directions.


Didn't think so. Carry on.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

To every fan on here parroting that FBS schools should keep scheduling FCS teams: that must mean you advocate your team to schedule DII teams for home games. Right?

Must be. It's exactly the same argument. It works exactly the same in both directions.


Didn't think so. Carry on.

It does not because there is an exception in the NCAA bylaws that allow for one FCS game to count for bowl eligibility, as long as that school averages more than 57 scholarships over a two-year period.

Qualification for the FCS playoffs either comes from an autobid, where OOC scheduling doesn't matter, or as an at-large team, where your schedule is evaluated on its overall "schedule strength" and some metrics, such as "Division I wins", are considered.

Having a schedule with seven wins, including two against sub-D-I teams, threatens a team's potential at-large selection, especially when they're going up against a team who scheduled an FBS team.

Similarly, at least for the past five years, at least one at-large team has been selected with an OOC win against a D-II team. Last year, Sam Houston made it with one. The year before, Wofford. So it's not, and has never been, a hard and fast rule. (In fact, my argument is that scheduling all D-I opponents should count more.)

[BEAR]

I think we should schedule DII teams... they are usually very hard fights at the upper level of DII.

Heck at UCA we schedule DII teams and even lower... like Henderson State and UAPB. xlolx xwhistlex

But since the SLC is in a cycle where one team will dominate for a couple of years, its best to schedule upperlevel DII or as many FCS as possible IMO.

[MplsBison]

It does not because there is an exception in the NCAA bylaws that allow for one FCS game to count for bowl eligibility, as long as that school averages more than 57 scholarships over a two-year period.

Qualification for the FCS playoffs either comes from an autobid, where OOC scheduling doesn't matter, or as an at-large team, where your schedule is evaluated on its overall "schedule strength" and some metrics, such as "Division I wins", are considered.

Having a schedule with seven wins, including two against sub-D-I teams, threatens a team's potential at-large selection, especially when they're going up against a team who scheduled an FBS team.

Similarly, at least for the past five years, at least one at-large team has been selected with an OOC win against a D-II team. Last year, Sam Houston made it with one. The year before, Wofford. So it's not, and has never been, a hard and fast rule. (In fact, my argument is that scheduling all D-I opponents should count more.)

NDSU scheduled a DII last year as well. Of course they won the conference, but if they had lost to UNI for a 7-1 conference record and if UNI had gone undefeated in conference play, NDSU would've gotten a seed with that DII win.

In fact, there was a Fargo Forum article from last year quoting NDSU's AD that he got specific reassurance from the selection committee that they'd rather see 8-3 with a DII win over 7-3 without the DII game.


So that dismisses your argument that FBS teams have more to gain from scheduling FCS than FCS teams have in scheduling DII teams. Like I said, it works exactly the same in both directions.

Yet you advocate for FCS teams only scheduling DI schools while on the other hand you suggest that FBS teams should schedule FCS teams.

You're talking out of both sides of your mouth.

[citdog]

I agree. For instance, Furman routinely plays Clemson and now has started seeing USC again (it only took them nearly 30 years after beating them in the early 80s to schedule us again). Those teams have to pay Furman a fraction of what they would have to pay a random FBS school to come play, still get a home gate and (likely) a win.

I do think that there's a mutual respect for Furman and Wofford between those two programs, though. Unlike many FBS schools, the South Carolina programs and their fans know how good the FCS programs in the state are and have been. They take us seriously.

Actually those State schools should quit scheduling you and woffy. You are 'private' institutions remember? There are plenty of State FCS schools that should get those money games before you do.

[MplsBison]

I think we should schedule DII teams... they are usually very hard fights at the upper level of DII.

Heck at UCA we schedule DII teams and even lower... like Henderson State and UAPB. xlolx xwhistlex

But since the SLC is in a cycle where one team will dominate for a couple of years, its best to schedule upperlevel DII or as many FCS as possible IMO.

I can't speak to your situation down in the Southland, but for NDSU I'd champion bringing in one NSIC team for a guarantee game in Fargo every year. It would beat the crap out of paying some far flung, low level FCS team $250k to come to Fargo. The NSIC team would bring more fans and would give the Bison a better game.

And the exact same "it's good for the game" argument works for that too. It's good for upper midwest football for the Bison to give a NSIC chance to come to Fargo, play in the dome, give them a chance to take a swipe at the big boy in the area and redistribute some wealth to the tune of say $100k. Win on all sides.

[walliver]

Actually those State schools should quit scheduling you and woffy. You are 'private' institutions remember? There are plenty of State FCS schools that should get those money games before you do.

Like SC State and Coastal?

We know The Citadel is holding out for a home game.

[walliver]

I have no issues with scheduling sub "D1" games. Many D2 schools offer 25-40 more scholarships than the Pioneer League.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

So that dismisses your argument that FBS teams have more to gain from scheduling FCS than FCS teams have in scheduling DII teams. Like I said, it works exactly the same in both directions.

Yet you advocate for FCS teams only scheduling DI schools while on the other hand you suggest that FBS teams should schedule FCS teams.

I said nothing of the sort. What I feel is a 10-1 team with a full D-I schedule should get at-large consideration over one who is 8-3 or 7-4 with Alabama and Henderson State as its OOC slate. However, the playoff selection committee has not agreed with me the past few years - and demonstrates how scheduling D-IIs has not been a resume-killer.

Nobody is debating NDSU's inclusion in the playoffs, and they could have scheduled three D-IIs and still made the playoffs last season since they won the Valley.

[MplsBison]

I said nothing of the sort. What I feel is a 10-1 team with a full D-I schedule should get at-large consideration over one who is 8-3 or 7-4 with Alabama and Henderson State as its OOC slate. However, the playoff selection committee has not agreed with me the past few years - and demonstrates how scheduling D-IIs has not been a resume-killer.

Nobody is debating NDSU's inclusion in the playoffs, and they could have scheduled three D-IIs and still made the playoffs last season since they won the Valley.

Either way you slice it, you're contradicting yourself.

Now you say that your preference is for FCS schedules with no DII teams. Yet you think that FBS teams should schedule FCS teams and not be penalized for it the way that you would choose to penalize FCS teams that schedule DII teams.

I don't think you can explain why it's ok on one hand but not ok on the other. But you're welcome to try, of course. Remember, I already defeated your first attempt (that the NCAA allows one FCS team to count toward bowl eligibility). So don't rehash that.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Either way you slice it, you're contradicting yourself.

Now you say that your preference is for FCS schedules with no DII teams. Yet you think that FBS teams should schedule FCS teams and not be penalized for it the way that you would choose to penalize FCS teams that schedule DII teams.

I don't think you can explain why it's ok on one hand but not ok on the other. But you're welcome to try, of course. Remember, I already defeated your first attempt (that the NCAA allows one FCS team to count toward bowl eligibility). So don't rehash that.

FCS and FBS are Division I. They compete in the same men's basketball, women's basketball, track, lacrosse, hockey championships. Why should a Division I school be penalized for playing a Division I school?

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

All of the fan wailing about uninteresting OOC matchups is going to fall on deaf ears as long as the Alabamas Michigans, and Texas' can sell a ton of tickets for FCS games. Strength of schedule hasn't been an issue with a BCSNCG format, so why should it be a problem now that four teams get a chance for the NC? For the lesser P5 programs like Vanderbilt or Duke or Indiana, you just want to get a bowl bid and you don't want to pass up a chance to get an FCS win to count towards bowl eligibility.

The money games aren't going to dry up for the FCS or G5 any time soon. The P5 is just throwing a conniption fit because the BCS monopoly is crumbling and more and more mid-major conferences are getting a larger cut of the March Madness pie.

[MplsBison]

FCS and FBS are Division I. They compete in the same men's basketball, women's basketball, track, lacrosse, hockey championships. Why should a Division I school be penalized for playing a Division I school?

Then why does the NCAA require FBS teams to schedule most of their games against FBS teams?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Then why doesn't the NCAA require FBS teams to schedule most of their games against FBS teams?

They, in effect, do, by only counting one FCS game towards bowl eligibility. If you want to play in a bowl, you can only schedule one of these FCS games at most.

[MplsBison]

All of the fan wailing about uninteresting OOC matchups is going to fall on deaf ears as long as the Alabamas Michigans, and Texas' can sell a ton of tickets for FCS games. Strength of schedule hasn't been an issue with a BCSNCG format, so why should it be a problem now that four teams get a chance for the NC? For the lesser P5 programs like Vanderbilt or Duke or Indiana, you just want to get a bowl bid and you don't want to pass up a chance to get an FCS win to count towards bowl eligibility.

The money games aren't going to dry up for the FCS or G5 any time soon. The P5 is just throwing a conniption fit because the BCS monopoly is crumbling and more and more mid-major conferences are getting a larger cut of the March Madness pie.

You've brought two different arguments to the table that I'd like to dispel, because on the surface they seem reasonable. But once you dig deeper you find that they are invalid.

At the top end: "strength of schedule hasn't prevented a team from playing in the BCS nation championship via the BCS rankings, so it won't prevent a team from playing in the CFP four team playoff".

It's patently misleading. The fact of the matter is that this is an unprecedented season. We simply don't know exactly how much emphasis the selection committee will place on strength of schedule. But the talk says that it's going to be one of the critically important factors. Thus it's invalid to simply dismiss it.

It may turn out in 2014 that the four teams that get into the playoff all have a FCS team on their schedule and the fifth through twelfth ranked teams weren't close to the top four.

Or ... it may turn out that the fifth, sixth and seventh ranked teams all were right with the top four but the difference was that they had an FCS team on their schedule that prevented them from getting into the top four.

It's only going to take one case of the latter happening before you see top FBS teams falling over themselves to purge their schedules of FCS teams.


At the low end: "The lower end P5 programs that know they're unlikely to be in contention for a top ranking in the CFP will put more emphasis on making it to a non-CFP bowl game, to which an FCS game counts for eligibility."

Initially, I agree with this. But it won't last. Two reasons for that: i) from the start you're going to see not just team SOS being analyzed but conference SOS being analyzed and ii) it won't look good to fans and boosters who question why their school is still scheduling FCS teams when the top teams in the conference aren't.

To the first point, if you have 9 out of 14 teams in the conference all with an FCS team on their schedules, then that conference could be thought of as less competitive and therefore the conference wins start to decline in perceived strength.

To the second point, the AD can't very well answer those challenges with "look guys, you all know we suck - so I have to schedule wins!" That won't do.

[MplsBison]

They, in effect, do, by only counting one FCS game towards bowl eligibility. If you want to play in a bowl, you can only schedule one of these FCS games at most.

I apologize, there was a typo. It was supposed to be "does", not "doesn't". But you answered anyway.

The point was that yes the NCAA requires FBS teams to schedule a minimum number of their games to be against FBS teams. If it were truly all "Division I" as you say, no such requirement would exist. Thus your assertion is not correct.

[MR. CHICKEN]

They, in effect, do, by only counting one FCS game towards bowl eligibility. If you want to play in a bowl, you can only schedule one of these FCS games at most.



19005.......2012.....FLORIDA STATE...PLAYED MURRAY STATE/SAVANNAH STATE.......WENT ON TA PLAY...NORFFERN ILLINOIS....IN ORANGE BOWL..........JES' SAYIN'.......xdontknowx.......BRAWK!

[MplsBison]

Without actually checking the handbook, I believe a minimum of nine games out of twelve have to be against FBS teams. That's the only true requirement for an FBS schedule.

So in theory (assuming that's correct) you can schedule three FCS teams in a season and still go to a bowl game. But only one of those can count toward the minimum six wins needed to be eligible for a bowl game.

[McNeese72]

I nearly forgot ASU was a SLC team once. Wondered why you thought that was funny. Duh..

Yep, I sat in the top of their almost empty stadium in 1980 and watched McNeese QB Stephan Starring rush for 234 yards against them. Of course, we ran a lot of option back then.

Doc

[SpiritCymbal]

The teams that have been hurt by SOS are the ones in the Pac12, Big12 and Big10...who happen to be spear heading the "no 1-aa games" charge. That's not a coincidence. SEC hasn't had to worry about SOS hurting them during the BCS era. The conference schedule is strong enough to make up for weak OOC conference games. The schools in the other conferences can't schedule 1-aa teams without taking a bigger SOS hit b/c their conference isn't strong enough to make up for it.

The problem is that the teams that make the 4-team playoff series are going to be determined by humans moving forward, not computers. It's a forgone conclusion that the selection committee is going to look down on scheduling non I-A teams b/c it's human nature. Computers have shown us over the years that the top of 1-aa is as strong as the bottom of I-A...but yet the human factor continues to believe the opposite. And now the human factor has become more powerful in college football.

[MplsBison]

The teams that have been hurt by SOS are the ones in the Pac12, Big12 and Big10...who happen to be spear heading the "no 1-aa games" charge. That's not a coincidence. SEC hasn't had to worry about SOS hurting them during the BCS era. The conference schedule is strong enough to make up for weak OOC conference games. The schools in the other conferences can't schedule 1-aa teams without taking a bigger SOS hit b/c their conference isn't strong enough to make up for it.

The problem is that the teams that make the 4-team playoff series are going to be determined by humans moving forward, not computers. It's a forgone conclusion that the selection committee is going to look down on scheduling non I-A teams b/c it's human nature. Computers have shown us over the years that the top of 1-aa is as strong as the bottom of I-A...but yet the human factor continues to believe the opposite. And now the human factor has become more powerful in college football.

As it should be. Humans are correct. Computers are wrong.

[cmaxwellgsu]

The teams that have been hurt by SOS are the ones in the Pac12, Big12 and Big10...who happen to be spear heading the "no 1-aa games" charge. That's not a coincidence. SEC hasn't had to worry about SOS hurting them during the BCS era. The conference schedule is strong enough to make up for weak OOC conference games. The schools in the other conferences can't schedule 1-aa teams without taking a bigger SOS hit b/c their conference isn't strong enough to make up for it.

The problem is that the teams that make the 4-team playoff series are going to be determined by humans moving forward, not computers. It's a forgone conclusion that the selection committee is going to look down on scheduling non I-A teams b/c it's human nature. Computers have shown us over the years that the top of 1-aa is as strong as the bottom of I-A...but yet the human factor continues to believe the opposite. And now the human factor has become more powerful in college football.

Those conferences are also spearheading the nine game conference schedule. I think the SEC will keep on scheduling their in state FCS games. They should. Those games draw crowds, and spark local interest. Not every game has to have the same relevance nationwide vs. regional.

[Southern Bison]

MplsSioux, your comment about Gene's (NDSU AD) quote was completely taken out of context. Considering 2013 was a 12-game season with a week for a bye (13 total weekends), the NCAA suggested to him that they would rather see NDSU play more games overall vs. having 2-3 bye weeks in the long season.

Take the blinders off, the Belmont Stakes isn't for a couple of weeks and NO ONE on AGS would bet on you anyways.

[Catatonic]

Those conferences are also spearheading the nine game conference schedule. I think the SEC will keep on scheduling their in state FCS games. They should. Those games draw crowds, and spark local interest. Not every game has to have the same relevance nationwide vs. regional.

I would agree with you if the SEC scheduled in state games. They don't, at least not consistently.

Most SEC schools are playing FCS schools from out of state, games that don't spark much interest or draw crowds.

[citdog]

Like SC State and Coastal?

We know The Citadel is holding out for a home game.

Unlike wofford The Citadel actually has people show up for our home games. We will NEVER play in Orangeburg or in Conway. You have to go to BOTH.

[chattownmocs]

I would agree with you if the SEC scheduled in state games. They don't, at least not consistently.

Most SEC schools are playing FCS schools from out of state, games that don't spark much interest or draw crowds.


They may not sell out but they are still at 90% capacity most of the time.

[walliver]

Unlike wofford The Citadel actually has people show up for our home games. We will NEVER play in Orangeburg or in Conway. You have to go to BOTH.

We've never played in Conway.

We did routinely play in Orangeburg at the county fair in the mid 50's, but The Citadel got tired of losing and cancelled the series.

Over the last decade, our home playoff attendance is infinitely higher than yours.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

You've brought two different arguments to the table that I'd like to dispel, because on the surface they seem reasonable. But once you dig deeper you find that they are invalid.

At the top end: "strength of schedule hasn't prevented a team from playing in the BCS nation championship via the BCS rankings, so it won't prevent a team from playing in the CFP four team playoff".

It's patently misleading. The fact of the matter is that this is an unprecedented season. We simply don't know exactly how much emphasis the selection committee will place on strength of schedule. But the talk says that it's going to be one of the critically important factors. Thus it's invalid to simply dismiss it.

It may turn out in 2014 that the four teams that get into the playoff all have a FCS team on their schedule and the fifth through twelfth ranked teams weren't close to the top four.

Or ... it may turn out that the fifth, sixth and seventh ranked teams all were right with the top four but the difference was that they had an FCS team on their schedule that prevented them from getting into the top four.

It's only going to take one case of the latter happening before you see top FBS teams falling over themselves to purge their schedules of FCS teams.


At the low end: "The lower end P5 programs that know they're unlikely to be in contention for a top ranking in the CFP will put more emphasis on making it to a non-CFP bowl game, to which an FCS game counts for eligibility."

Initially, I agree with this. But it won't last. Two reasons for that: i) from the start you're going to see not just team SOS being analyzed but conference SOS being analyzed and ii) it won't look good to fans and boosters who question why their school is still scheduling FCS teams when the top teams in the conference aren't.

To the first point, if you have 9 out of 14 teams in the conference all with an FCS team on their schedules, then that conference could be thought of as less competitive and therefore the conference wins start to decline in perceived strength.

To the second point, the AD can't very well answer those challenges with "look guys, you all know we suck - so I have to schedule wins!" That won't do.

On the first point, you are right that the process of selection is going to change. If you are Central Florida or Boise State your non-conference schedule could definitely hurt you if you want to get into the playoff. But if you are a one-loss team with a Pac-12, Big XII, or SEC championship under your belt, what are the odds that there will be four teams with a better case to get into the playoff? Not overly likely.

And it's not like filling up your non-conference schedule with big-name teams is actually doable. If it were teams would do it every year and rake in huge TV revenues. With that in mind, can you honestly tell me that when the selection committee meets they are going to say "well, team A beat a mid-level Big South team OOC and team B beat a 3-win ACC team, so we'll give the edge to team B". No. Why would they compare the quality of teams in the cellar of their schedules?

Same issue with the lesser P5 programs. If the better football programs in the top conferences aren't going to totally oppose FCS games, why will they when they have the same scheduling issues and they can use FCS games to count towards bowl eligibility?

[chattownmocs]

the idea that these games are much different than scheduling the sunbelt or the CUSA is absurd. Not a team in contention for a national. A national championship contending team is in no danger either way. That's a bogus argument against the SEC. Just like the one that claims that they don't play anyone in OOC. Complete. There may be a few teams that don't but must of the teams have at least 1 big OOC game every single year.

[citdog]

We've never played in Conway.

We did routinely play in Orangeburg at the county fair in the mid 50's, but The Citadel got tired of losing and cancelled the series.

Over the last decade, our home playoff attendance is infinitely higher than yours.

The revision is STRONG with you. You would have to win how many more in a row to even the series? You play coastal in Conway and SC State in Orangeburg. If either wants a game with us they have to come to Charleston like CCU is to open the season.

[walliver]

The revision is STRONG with you. You would have to win how many more in a row to even the series? You play coastal in Conway and SC State in Orangeburg. If either wants a game with us they have to come to Charleston like CCU is to open the season.

We have played Coastal ONCE and that was at home. You have obviously confused us with the Baptists down the road who have travelled to metropolitan Aynor.

Are you looking forward to this year's game in Ladson?

[citdog]

We have played Coastal ONCE and that was at home. You have obviously confused us with the Baptists down the road who have travelled to metropolitan Aynor.

Are you looking forward to this year's game in Ladson?

absolutely! CSU has earned a visit by a real program.

[BEAR]

They may not sell out but they are still at 90% capacity most of the time.

Caution: They usually stick those FCS games at the beginning of the year when fans are football hungry. Look at what happened at LSU,or was it Bama, a couple of years ago when they scheduled a late season FCS. Poor poor attendance. Fans like to se their team off and running with a whipping boy...later in the year that whipping boy becomes a side show and the fans await a season ending title winning matchup.

[catamount man]

Wofford hasn't lost to citadel since Bill Clinton was in the White House. (crickets)

[FormerPokeCenter]

Yep, I sat in the top of their almost empty stadium in 1980 and watched McNeese QB Stephan Starring rush for 234 yards against them. Of course, we ran a lot of option back then.

Doc

At the 1982 Southland Conference Indoor Track Meet in Monroe, ASU head coach Larry Lacewell (former roommate of Jerry Jones and some guy with helmet hair) walked over to where we were warming up and introduced himself to Stephen, and told him that was the most amazing QB rushing performance he'd ever seen...gushing about how much team speed McNeese always had. Stephen liked to psyche people out. He just grinned and introduced me to Lacewell. "This is my center. He runs the hurdles, too"....the look on Lacewell's face was awesome...He just looked at me like I was from another planet ;)

[Ground&Pound]

I love seeing the FCS play the bigger schools.

Eastern Washington is taking on Washington State (2X), Oregon, and Washington over the next 4 seasons. Of course they just beat Oregon State in 2013 and it was a huge win for the program. 2014 they play Washington, and I may very well travel to that one!

[citdog]

Wofford hasn't lost to citadel since Bill Clinton was in the White House. (crickets)


At least we beat Div I teams with regularity.

[catamount man]

At least we beat Div I teams with regularity.

Yeah, but how sad is that 2 of our last 3 DIV I wins have come against....citadel. LOL!

[MplsBison]

MplsSioux, your comment about Gene's (NDSU AD) quote was completely taken out of context. Considering 2013 was a 12-game season with a week for a bye (13 total weekends), the NCAA suggested to him that they would rather see NDSU play more games overall vs. having 2-3 bye weeks in the long season.

Take the blinders off, the Belmont Stakes isn't for a couple of weeks and NO ONE on AGS would bet on you anyways.

You are incorrect, sir. The information is in the old Forum article, as I stated it. It can't be looked up unfortunately, unless you are a subscriber.

[MplsBison]

On the first point, you are right that the process of selection is going to change. If you are Central Florida or Boise State your non-conference schedule could definitely hurt you if you want to get into the playoff. But if you are a one-loss team with a Pac-12, Big XII, or SEC championship under your belt, what are the odds that there will be four teams with a better case to get into the playoff? Not overly likely.

And it's not like filling up your non-conference schedule with big-name teams is actually doable. If it were teams would do it every year and rake in huge TV revenues. With that in mind, can you honestly tell me that when the selection committee meets they are going to say "well, team A beat a mid-level Big South team OOC and team B beat a 3-win ACC team, so we'll give the edge to team B". No. Why would they compare the quality of teams in the cellar of their schedules?

Same issue with the lesser P5 programs. If the better football programs in the top conferences aren't going to totally oppose FCS games, why will they when they have the same scheduling issues and they can use FCS games to count towards bowl eligibility?

I can honestly tell you that no one knows for sure. This season sets the precedent.

And if it so happens that the committee picks team B over team A because team A played an FCS team, then FCS teams will be purged from many a P5 schedule.

[citdog]

Yeah, but how sad is that 2 of our last 3 DIV I wins have come against....citadel. LOL!


And we beat your rival like Lee beat Pope at Second Manassas the last two meetings. You'd trade your record with ours EVERY year and be HAPPY. Meanwhile The 'Dogs are THRUSTING!

[gotts]

http://i423.photobucket.com/albums/pp311/gotts811/Untitled_zps79bee658.png