Kenny Rogers a cheater????

[AppGuy04]

Watch the video, this isn't the first time

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=wojciechowski_gene&id=2635618

DETROIT -- Here at The North Face photo shoot, otherwise known as the 102nd World Series, you didn't know whether they were going to play Game 2 or a Grey Cup championship here.

But they played Game 2, Detroit beat St. Louis, 3-1, and, oh, by the way, Tigers starter Kenny Rogers may or may not have cheated for an inning.

With or without some sort of mysterious brown sludge on the inner palm of his pitching hand, Rogers was nearly unhittable. He certainly was un-scoreable. But did he get caught red- (or brown-) handed?

[saint0917]

I was a Pitcher from the time I was 9 up through High school, and I Pitched One year of American Legion Ball. Sorry Roger, but that's not "Dirt" :nonono2: So Yes, Roger is cheating.

[GannonFan]

There's no way a pitcher has that amount of stuff on his pitching hand and not have it be intentional. How he was cheating with it would be up for speculation, but that was clearly intentional to have that material where it was.

[AppGuy04]

If it was the first time, I might be inclined to give him a break, but this is the 3rd time in this playoffs. After seeing this one, ESPn went back and noticed it in all the games he pitched.

However, after he washed it off, he did pitch 8 more shutout innings.

[GannonFan]

However, after he washed it off, he did pitch 8 more shutout innings.

Just because you pitch fine after getting rid of the vasoline doesn't mean you didn't use vasoline illegally before then. Cheating is still cheating, even if you didn't have to do it to win.

[AppGuy04]

Just because you pitch fine after getting rid of the vasoline doesn't mean you didn't use vasoline illegally before then. Cheating is still cheating, even if you didn't have to do it to win.

Oh I know, if St Louis had done what they were supposed to, catch him in the act, he would have been ejected and suspended.

[bandl]

Just because you pitch fine after getting rid of the vasoline doesn't mean you didn't use vasoline illegally before then. Cheating is still cheating, even if you didn't have to do it to win.
Wow...so it's already been determined that it was in fact vaseline on Roger's hand, and not dirt, dirt collected from his resin bag or pinetar? :confused:

I'm glad that we have some MLB execs on the AGS board that have all the inside knowledge that us common folk don't have!!! :hurray: Must have been some handy ol' CSI kinda testing on his hand after the game. :nod:

[Ivytalk]

So will the Cards succeed in "getting into Kenny's head" in time for Game 6?

[GeauxColonels]

Just because you pitch fine after getting rid of the vasoline doesn't mean you didn't use vasoline illegally before then. Cheating is still cheating, even if you didn't have to do it to win.
Just curious, but how does vaseline give a pitcher an edge? In what way does it affect the ball?:confused:

[bandl]

Just curious, but how does vaseline give a pitcher an edge? In what way does it affect the ball?:confused:

quoted from some website or other:

The Spitball

The spitball and its variations, The Vaseline ball, the emeryball, the scuffball, the mudball, etc, are illegal under most organised baseball rules. However, illegal in this case means simply, don't get caught. The spit in spitball comes from the fact that saliva or some other substance is applied to the side of the ball before it is thrown. This substance is meant to reduce spin, causing the ball to move opposite that side. The substance used in the spitball can be used before any type of pitch with varying results, but for best results, it should be applied to fastballs. The fastball will then break with a complete unexpectedness at a high rate of speed, fooling the batter.

There are many theories about what substances to apply to the ball and where to keep them. Essentially, anything that will detract from the overall spheroid nature of the baseball will be effective. The key here is secrecy. The spit (or its cousin, sweat) is easy enough to procure, as long as the umpire doesn't see you expectorating2 on the baseball. Vaseline can be hidden at the belt line or under the cap. The scuffball and emeryball are produced by scratching the cover of the ball using a small file, emery board, or nail. These implements are often hidden in the glove between two of the fingers or within the padding. The mudball uses not only the spin-reducing substance, but has the added bonus of making the ball harder to see (especially at twilight). Furthermore, mud is easily found on the pitcher's mound on rainy days.

[GeauxColonels]

quoted from some website or other:

The Spitball

The spitball and its variations, The Vaseline ball, the emeryball, the scuffball, the mudball, etc, are illegal under most organised baseball rules. However, illegal in this case means simply, don't get caught. The spit in spitball comes from the fact that saliva or some other substance is applied to the side of the ball before it is thrown. This substance is meant to reduce spin, causing the ball to move opposite that side. The substance used in the spitball can be used before any type of pitch with varying results, but for best results, it should be applied to fastballs. The fastball will then break with a complete unexpectedness at a high rate of speed, fooling the batter.

There are many theories about what substances to apply to the ball and where to keep them. Essentially, anything that will detract from the overall spheroid nature of the baseball will be effective. The key here is secrecy. The spit (or its cousin, sweat) is easy enough to procure, as long as the umpire doesn't see you expectorating2 on the baseball. Vaseline can be hidden at the belt line or under the cap. The scuffball and emeryball are produced by scratching the cover of the ball using a small file, emery board, or nail. These implements are often hidden in the glove between two of the fingers or within the padding. The mudball uses not only the spin-reducing substance, but has the added bonus of making the ball harder to see (especially at twilight). Furthermore, mud is easily found on the pitcher's mound on rainy days.
Ah I see. I knew that it had some sort of effect, just not certain as to what it did. Thanks. :thumbsup:

[GannonFan]

Wow...so it's already been determined that it was in fact vaseline on Roger's hand, and not dirt, dirt collected from his resin bag or pinetar? :confused:

I'm glad that we have some MLB execs on the AGS board that have all the inside knowledge that us common folk don't have!!! :hurray: Must have been some handy ol' CSI kinda testing on his hand after the game. :nod:

Hey, I was just using vaseline as an example - I don't think anyone knows what was on his hand. It's kinda curious, though, that after he was told about it he never seemed to have it resurface all during the rest of the game, although he did touch the resin bag several times over the remaining 7-8 innings. Odd that such a random occurrence should not come up again after he got caught with it.

[AppGuy04]

I think it was pine tar, atleast the color was consistent

[MarkCCU]

i think it's ****

what? just saying,maybe he doesn't wipe well or wash his hands afterwards

[bandl]

Hey, I was just using vaseline as an example - I don't think anyone knows what was on his hand. It's kinda curious, though, that after he was told about it he never seemed to have it resurface all during the rest of the game, although he did touch the resin bag several times over the remaining 7-8 innings. Odd that such a random occurrence should not come up again after he got caught with it.

I'm just pickin' on ya...I know you were using it as an example. I, for one, think he is guilty of cheating. But there is no solid proof...the umps asked him to clean his hand, La Russa didn't raise his voice about the matter, and that was that. If it WAS vaseline, then I think I am correct in saying that he could of been ejected. In fact, I think the rules are that ejection is mandatory for a foreign substance and dirt is not always considered a foreign substance, considering the fact that the game is played on dirt. ?? Duh.

[dirtbag]

i think it's ****

what? just saying,maybe he doesn't wipe well or wash his hands afterwards

Only if he's been eating strained peas.

That was the exact color of the stuff that I used to find in my daughter's diaper.

[RobsPics]

I think he was just eating chocolate cake before the games.

[KiddBrewer]

first off, for you big time major league baseball fans here, his name is kenny rogers, not roger something. and as a college pitcher, pine tar, if thats what it was, will not give you any advantage as a pitcher, other than being able to grip the ball. the cardinals probably didnt say anything about it because 1) pitchers do it all the time, they just dont have cameras all over their hands, and 2) with extra grip, it gives the batter that much more confidence that the ball wont get away from the pitcher and them get drilled.

[KiddBrewer]

regardless, 8 scoreless innings DID NOT come from having something on his hand.

[AppGuy04]

first off, for you big time major league baseball fans here, his name is kenny rogers, not roger something. and as a college pitcher, pine tar, if thats what it was, will not give you any advantage as a pitcher, other than being able to grip the ball. the cardinals probably didnt say anything about it because 1) pitchers do it all the time, they just dont have cameras all over their hands, and 2) with extra grip, it gives the batter that much more confidence that the ball wont get away from the pitcher and them get drilled.

Tony LaRussa stated that none of his players said the ball was doing funny things as the media reported. The players did however note that Rogers was hitting 92, when he usually averages 85-86

[KiddBrewer]

yea, if anything pine tar would slow the ball down out of your hand, not speed it up 6 mph.

[AppGuy04]

yea, if anything pine tar would slow the ball down out of your hand, not speed it up 6 mph.

Agreed, pine tar would not help a fastball IMO, only breaking stuff

[dirtbag]

yea, if anything pine tar would slow the ball down out of your hand, not speed it up 6 mph.

And his best pitch is a change-up. Hmmmmm...

[dirtbag]

pine tar, if thats what it was, will not give you any advantage as a pitcher, other than being able to grip the ball.

:rolleyes:

Yeah, and a bat won't give you any advantage as a hitter, other than being able to hit the ball.

[MissouriStateBear]

Im just pissed that LaRussa didnt say anything...if it was dirt, fine...but damn it SAY SOMETHING...forget if the opposing manager is a good friend...you know the rules forward and backward and he knew that he would have been ejected...ahhh...i hope that this doesnt come to cost the Cards the series...

[AZGrizFan]

Im just pissed that LaRussa didnt say anything...if it was dirt, fine...but damn it SAY SOMETHING...forget if the opposing manager is a good friend...you know the rules forward and backward and he knew that he would have been ejected...ahhh...i hope that this doesnt come to cost the Cards the series...

They're now saying the reason he didn't say something is because 80% of the guys in HIS bullpen use something too....and THEY'D have been pissed as hell, cuz it would have raised a red flag. :eyebrow: :eyebrow: