Holy Cross to play Syracuse and Connecticut in 2017

[crusader11]

Tweet from highly touted freshman linebacker Nick McBeath: "@NickMcBeath5: Just found out we play Uconn and Syracuse my senior year ✊🏈😁"

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Schollies paying off! xthumbsupx

[Sader87]

Changes are afoot in Worcester....at long last.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

2 FBS games in one year is a bit overkill. Still, they're against the right type of regional opponents....

[UNHWildcat18]

Good for HC! While I like the fact that for the most part UNH plays FBS games they have a chance of winning, I would really like to see them play one of the five schools cuse army bc uconn umass on a regular basis if possible from year to year

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Does anyone know how HC is handling the funding of scholarships? I believe they were one of the programs that was still one the fence when it came to adopting them.

It seems like the programs that do schedule 2 FBS games are in need of money. Hopefully, HC does not need to take money games to stay afloat. These FBS games mean two likely losses as well as two less home games. 2017 could end up being a rather poor year for HC football. Then again, success in Worcester, MA is measured by the company you keep, not W's and L's....

[crusader11]

2017 could end up being a rather poor year for HC football.

Amazing you are able to project what the team will look like four seasons from now. HC's incoming freshmen will be seniors in 2017, and they haven't even strapped on the pads yet.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Amazing you are able to project what the team will look like four seasons from now. HC's incoming freshmen will be seniors in 2017, and they haven't even strapped on the pads yet.

Just saying that HC will start the year as an underdog in 2 games that will be played on a the road. Maybe HC will have things turned around by then. Perhaps not though. They've certainly struggled recently....

[Sader87]

We Catholics like our beatings xrotatehx.

In all honesty, I'd rather play and lose to both UConn and Syracuse than beat a lot of random FCS schools.

[CFBfan]

2 FBS games in one year is a bit overkill. Still, they're against the right type of regional opponents....

NO it's not, Good for HC!!! let LU keep playing the creampuff ooc and then whine when they don't get a bid

[CFBfan]

We Catholics like our beatings xrotatehx.

In all honesty, I'd rather play and lose to both UConn and Syracuse than beat a lot of random FCS schools.

+ 1

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

NO it's not, Good for HC!!! let LU keep playing the creampuff ooc and then whine when they don't get a bid

I doubt the committee would reward HC for playing UConn and 'Cuse anymore than they would reward Lehigh for playing JMU and UNH.....

[Go...gate]

We Catholics like our beatings xrotatehx.

In all honesty, I'd rather play and lose to both UConn and Syracuse than beat a lot of random FCS schools.

Agreed.

[Go...gate]

Just saying that HC will start the year as an underdog in 2 games that will be played on a the road. Maybe HC will have things turned around by then. Perhaps not though. They've certainly struggled recently....

Any concrete word on what Lehigh will be doing to strengthen their schedule? I know there was some discussion last fall about the subject.

[Go...gate]

Back in the day, Syracuse played Colgate, Holy Cross and Army quite often. The Syracuse - Army series dates to 1890, for example.

[bonarae]

In all honesty, I'd rather play and lose to both UConn and Syracuse than beat a lot of random FCS schools.

Agreed. Those random FCS schools (read: the schools with the most number of posters here who have stayed through thick and thin, I'm not naming names so as not to offend them) may seem like virtual unknowns to the northeast FCS fans, save for a few schools. I believe that the Ivies are aware of that and are stigmatizing themselves of those schools and national exposure by not scheduling them. xsmhx

EDIT - In contrast, the schools that we do schedule are also virtual unknowns to the scholly FCS teams in the South, the Midwest and the West.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Any concrete word on what Lehigh will be doing to strengthen their schedule? I know there was some discussion last fall about the subject.

This year's OOC is solid. Starting with JMU and UNH is about as good as it gets FCS wise. LU has one of the better OOC schedules in the league this year.

FBS games do not make a schedule better imo. With that said, I believe Lehigh was in talks with Army and Syracuse as well as a "big time" FBS program. Rich knows a little more than me....

Lehigh's roots are not in major college football. I don't think you'll see a steady diet of FBS games on Lehigh's or Lafayette's future schedules. One every 2-3 years is fine. I'd bet the house you won't see 2 FBS games on LU's or LC's schedule for at least 10 years, if ever...

H&H's with Wofford, Montana, Furman, Youngstown, Richmond is what interests me. Then again, I get my FBS "fix" via Temple and ND.

[Brad82]

It shows HC is getting serious about FB.

[CFBfan]

This year's OOC is solid. Starting with JMU and UNH is about as good as it gets FCS wise. LU has one of the better OOC schedules in the league this year.

FBS games do not make a schedule better imo. With that said, I believe Lehigh was in talks with Army and Syracuse as well as a "big time" FBS program. Rich knows a little more than me....

Lehigh's roots are not in major college football. I don't think you'll see a steady diet of FBS games on Lehigh's or Lafayette's future schedules. One every 2-3 years is fine. I'd bet the house you won't see 2 FBS games on LU's or LC's schedule for at least 10 years, if ever...

H&H's with Wofford, Montana, Furman, Youngstown, Richmond is what interests me. Then again, I get my FBS "fix" via Temple and ND.


I'm pretty sure "most of us" (and clearly that does NOT include LU fans) would rather see games against schools like Cuse, U Conn, Navy, Army, Air Force, etc instead of schools like Furman, Wofford, Youngstown, but hey....every fan base is different

[Sader87]

Agreed. Those random FCS schools (read: the schools with the most number of posters here who have stayed through thick and thin, I'm not naming names so as not to offend them) may seem like virtual unknowns to the northeast FCS fans, save for a few schools. I believe that the Ivies are aware of that and are stigmatizing themselves of those schools and national exposure by not scheduling them. xsmhx

EDIT - In contrast, the schools that we do schedule are also virtual unknowns to the scholly FCS teams in the South, the Midwest and the West.

By "random FCS schools" I meant essentially the many schools that have been on HC's schedule in the non-scholarship era that weren't even D1 when I graduated in the late 1980s etc. No offense to them, we all gotta start somewhere, but I'd just rather see HC schedule a UConn instead of a Central Connecticut, a Syracuse instead of a Marist etc etc

We should definitely remain FCS, all I'm saying is that if a schedule opening pops up and we have a relatively balanced schedule already i.e. 6PL games, 2 Ivies, I 1 CAA, 1 NEC....lets go after adding an FBS game before another NEC or Ivy game.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I'm pretty sure "most of us" (and clearly that does NOT include LU fans)

Don't drag the fans into this! Nothing would make me happier than getting an FBS game on the schedule. Though I think it should only be one, and it should be a like-minded institution, like Army, Navy, Duke, etc.

[RichH2]

LFN correct on future FBS for LU,as of now. Dont expect one every year but goal seems to be 2 or 3 for every class in their career.
Shame Joe not at Duke any longer but maybe we'll get LSU instead :)

[PAllen]

I'm pretty sure "most of us" (and clearly that does NOT include LU fans) would rather see games against schools like Cuse, U Conn, Navy, Army, Air Force, etc instead of schools like Furman, Wofford, Youngstown, but hey....every fan base is different

This is one LU fan who would love to see games against Syracuse, U Conn, Buffalo, Army, Navy, Pitt, BC, Temple, Rutgers, UVa. Especially if they take the place of the NEC schools currently on the schedule. While two a year might be a bit much, I'd like to strive for close to one a year, or at least 3 out of every 4. Regional FBS games are good for the program, save the Furmans and the YSUs for the playoffs. That said, I would still like to see Wofford finish the 2 for 1 with a return trip to Goodman.

[RichH2]

Agree PAllen, CAA ,some Ivies and an FBS a nice OOC mix. Wofford series appears dormant. No indication series will wrap up anytime soon. I like Liberty,games have been great as are their fans.

[DFW HOYA]

Supply and demand: as the PL continues to evolve towards a hybrid of the CAA, fewer Ivy teams will schedule them and these schools will have to expand scheduling west and south as a matter of necessity.

[UAalum72]

...an FBS game on the schedule. Though I think it should only be one, and it should be a like-minded institution, like Army, Navy, Duke, etc.This is the usual theme on the Ivy board, too. Exactly how many "like-minded" FBS universities are in the "etc." compared to the PL and other FCS teams that only want to play that type?
The usual suspects are Army, Navy, Stanford, Duke, Rice, Vanderbilt, Northwestern. Maybe Air Force, Ga. Tech and Tulane. BC and Notre Dame for Fordham and HC. How many games can they play vs. Patriot and Ivy teams? How often do you think they'd want to?

[PAllen]

This is the usual theme on the Ivy board, too. Exactly how many "like-minded" FBS universities are in the "etc." compared to the PL and other FCS teams that only want to play that type?
The usual suspects are Army, Navy, Stanford, Duke, Rice, Vanderbilt, Northwestern. Maybe Air Force, Ga. Tech and Tulane. BC and Notre Dame for Fordham and HC. How many games can they play vs. Patriot and Ivy teams? How often do you think they'd want to?

I'm good with like minded or regional. I don't see much good in flying 2000+ miles to get killed by Oregon or USC.

[Bogus Megapardus]

This is great news for the Crusaders and for their fans. One thing is certain - quality, high academic recruits such as Nick McBeath (a kid who we were recruiting as well) will open their eyes and take notice.


This is the usual theme on the Ivy board, too. Exactly how many "like-minded" FBS universities are in the "etc." compared to the PL and other FCS teams that only want to play that type?
The usual suspects are Army, Navy, Stanford, Duke, Rice, Vanderbilt, Northwestern. Maybe Air Force, Ga. Tech and Tulane. BC and Notre Dame for Fordham and HC. How many games can they play vs. Patriot and Ivy teams? How often do you think they'd want to?

I understand UAlum72's point. From the looks of things so far in the newly-scholarshipped Patriot League the focus is on the "traditional" opponents of PL member schools whose schedules drifted apart following the 1A/1AA split. I continue to maintain that PL schools will not seek to schedule Alabama, LSU or Ohio State (and the like) simply for a pay day. Schools such as Rice, Vanderbilt and Northwestern might seem like options but PL members have little history with those institutions.

Some of the the current FBS teams likely to find their way onto PL schedules, IMHO, are Syracuse, Buffalo, Rutgers, Boston College, Temple, Navy, UConn, Ohio U., Duke, UMass, Army, Penn State, Pitt, Maryland, Air Force, West Virginia and possibly - well into the future - Michigan, Indiana, Purdue and Virginia. These are the programs that have a history with, or a significant past connection to, the PL schools.

But Holy Cross is making quite the grand statement by scheduling UConn and Syracuse together. Well done!




EDIT - question for Sader87 or other HC fans - not that it would happen but would a Holy Cross/UConn game possibly draw better were it played at Fitton Field instead of at Rentschler Field? Home games last season for UConn vs. Memphis and UConn vs. Rutgers were well below Fitton's capacity. Just sayin' . . . .

[bonarae]

Don't drag the fans into this! Nothing would make me happier than getting an FBS game on the schedule. Though I think it should only be one, and it should be a like-minded institution, like Army, Navy, Duke, etc.

Yes, there should be only one FBS game ideally for each FCS. But for those that schedule 2 or 3 FBS - they have big money problems.


This is one LU fan who would love to see games against Syracuse, U Conn, Buffalo, Army, Navy, Pitt, BC, Temple, Rutgers, UVa. Especially if they take the place of the NEC schools currently on the schedule. While two a year might be a bit much, I'd like to strive for close to one a year, or at least 3 out of every 4. Regional FBS games are good for the program, save the Furmans and the YSUs for the playoffs. That said, I would still like to see Wofford finish the 2 for 1 with a return trip to Goodman.

Also agree.


Supply and demand: as the PL continues to evolve towards a hybrid of the CAA, fewer Ivy teams will schedule them and these schools will have to expand scheduling west and south as a matter of necessity.

Which schools West and South? That's already watering down the SOS of the Ivies. Ideally there should be more games like Yale-CP last year. Montana? NDSU? Wofford? Furman? Not quite familiar to the alumni and the ADs of the Ivies.


This is the usual theme on the Ivy board, too. Exactly how many "like-minded" FBS universities are in the "etc." compared to the PL and other FCS teams that only want to play that type?
The usual suspects are Army, Navy, Stanford, Duke, Rice, Vanderbilt, Northwestern. Maybe Air Force, Ga. Tech and Tulane. BC and Notre Dame for Fordham and HC. How many games can they play vs. Patriot and Ivy teams? How often do you think they'd want to?

Probably zero, unfortunately for most of the list. These schools are part of the Power 5.


I'm good with like minded or regional. I don't see much good in flying 2000+ miles to get killed by Oregon or USC.

I agree with this one too. Those two Power 5 schools are in a class of their own among others.

[DFW HOYA]

Which schools West and South? That's already watering down the SOS of the Ivies. Ideally there should be more games like Yale-CP last year. Montana? NDSU? Wofford? Furman? Not quite familiar to the alumni and the ADs of the Ivies.


I was referring to the scheduling at PL schools. More Youngstown State, less Yale.

[carney2]

This year's OOC is solid.

It certainly is. OOCs:

JMU
@UNH
@Yale
Monmouth
@ Cornell

Someone must have grabbed the scheduling stick from Joe Sterrett while he was sleeping.

[Gordon Shumway]

This is great news for the Crusaders and for their fans. One thing is certain - quality, high academic recruits such as Nick McBeath (a kid who we were recruiting as well) will open their eyes and take notice.



I understand UAlum72's point. From the looks of things so far in the newly-scholarshipped the focus is on the "traditional" opponents of PL member schools whose schedules drifted apart following the 1A/1AA split. I continue to maintain that PL schools will not seek to schedule Alabama, LSU or Ohio State simply for a pay day. Rice, Vanderbilt and Northwestern might seem like options but PL teams have little history with those schools.

Some of the the current FBS teams likely to find their way onto PL schedules, IMHO, are Syracuse, Buffalo, Rutgers, Boston College, Temple, Navy, UConn, Ohio U., Duke, UMass, Army, Penn State, Pitt, Maryland, Air Force, West Virginia and possibly - well into the future - Michigan, Indiana, Purdue and Virginia. These are the schools that have a history with, or a significant past connection to, the PL schools.




I think your list may be a little shorter than above unless the B1G changes their mind about banning FCS games in the future.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

B1G is not banning FCS games. I am not at all clear why this myth persists.

[Gater]

This is great for Holy Cross and the whole league.

[Gordon Shumway]

B1G is not banning FCS games. I am not at all clear why this myth persists.

Alright, then lets just call it phasing out.

http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/71561/alvarez-no-more-fcs-games-for-b1g

[Sader87]

This is great news for the Crusaders and for their fans. One thing is certain - quality, high academic recruits such as Nick McBeath (a kid who we were recruiting as well) will open their eyes and take notice.



I understand UAlum72's point. From the looks of things so far in the newly-scholarshipped the focus is on the "traditional" opponents of PL member schools whose schedules drifted apart following the 1A/1AA split. I continue to maintain that PL schools will not seek to schedule Alabama, LSU or Ohio State simply for a pay day. Rice, Vanderbilt and Northwestern might seem like options but PL teams have little history with those schools.

Some of the the current FBS teams likely to find their way onto PL schedules, IMHO, are Syracuse, Buffalo, Rutgers, Boston College, Temple, Navy, UConn, Ohio U., Duke, UMass, Army, Penn State, Pitt, Maryland, Air Force, West Virginia and possibly - well into the future - Michigan, Indiana, Purdue and Virginia. These are the schools that have a history with, or a significant past connection to, the PL schools.

But Holy Cross is making quite the grand statement by scheduling UConn and Syracuse together. Well done!




EDIT - question for Sader87 or other HC fans - not that it would happen but would a Holy Cross/UConn game possibly draw better were it played at Fitton Field instead of at Rentschler Field? Home games last season for UConn vs. Memphis and UConn vs. Rutgers were well below Fitton's capacity. Just sayin' . . . .

At this point in time, I don't think so. If by 2024, which would be Fitton's unofficial/official centennial, the Saders are going strong, I could possibly see a BC, UMass etc coming to Fitton ala West Point to the Yale Bowl this year.

[DFW HOYA]

I continue to maintain that PL schools will not seek to schedule Alabama, LSU or Ohio State simply for a pay day. Rice, Vanderbilt and Northwestern might seem like options but PL teams have little history with those schools.

If LSU or Ohio State offered Lafayette $700K for a game, travel included, would Frank Tavani turn it down? I don't think so. How many PL teams would pass that up?

In 2011, Lafayette picked up a guarantee to play at North Dakota State and there was no discussion that Lafayette should somehow be scheduling Davidson instead.

[crusader11]

Just to clarify that initial tweet, HC won't be playing Syracuse and Connecticut in the same season. Here's how HC's FBS games shakeout from 2017-2020:

2017: Connecticut
2018: Boston College
2019: Syracuse
2020: Boston College

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Just to clarify that initial tweet, HC won't be playing Syracuse and Connecticut in the same season. Here's how HC's FBS games shakeout from 2017-2020:

2017: Connecticut
2018: Boston College
2019: Syracuse
2020: Boston College

xthumbsupx

I'm happy that this is the case because that give Lehigh a chance to play one or more of them! ;)

[Go...gate]

If LSU or Ohio State offered Lafayette $700K for a game, travel included, would Frank Tavani turn it down? I don't think so. How many PL teams would pass that up?

In 2011, Lafayette picked up a guarantee to play at North Dakota State and there was no discussion that Lafayette should somehow be scheduling Davidson instead.

How about Lehigh - Penn State? Didn't the Engineers give PSU one of their all-time worst losses?

[Bogus Megapardus]

Just to clarify that initial tweet, HC won't be playing Syracuse and Connecticut in the same season. Here's how HC's FBS games shakeout from 2017-2020:

2017: Connecticut
2018: Boston College
2019: Syracuse
2020: Boston College

Thanks for the clarification. Still, an excellent job by Holy Cross in scheduling its traditional opponents; ones that were beyond reach without scholarships. Crusader fans are justifiably pleased.


If LSU or Ohio State offered Lafayette $700K for a game, travel included, would Frank Tavani turn it down? I don't think so. How many PL teams would pass that up?

In 2011, Lafayette picked up a guarantee to play at North Dakota State and there was no discussion that Lafayette should somehow be scheduling Davidson instead.

I see your point. But NDSU still is an FCS team; it was a big reach for us competitively, for sure, but it's never really "out of the ordinary" for any FCS team to schedule any other FCS team. Personally, I do not think that Coach Tavani or our AD would schedule LSU or Ohio State for $700K even if offered. I do think we'd schedule Rutgers or Syracuse or a similar FBS institution for a third of that that instead. I'm not sure that our program is in such dire need of income that the difference in the pay day would be determinative.

[Bogus Megapardus]

How about Lehigh - Penn State? Didn't the Engineers give PSU one of their all-time worst losses?

I was thinking Bucknell, actually, which at one point won six straight over Penn State.

But Lehigh did shut out Penn State 106-0 in 1889.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Are any PL school in talks with Temple? We have the most history with Bucknell and have the most success against Lafayette. There were talks about Lafayette but nothing has come about.

The time is now to schedule us since we might be getting booted from the Linc in 2017.

This is a big year for the program. We improved under Rhule as last season went on. UCF needed a miracle to beat us. Still, 2-10 with losses to Idaho, UConn and Fordham is about as bad as it gets. Optimism is based on returning players and a second year coach who hopefully understands the AAC.

At the end of the day, the better PL teams would give us a competitive game most years.

[PAllen]

Just to clarify that initial tweet, HC won't be playing Syracuse and Connecticut in the same season. Here's how HC's FBS games shakeout from 2017-2020:

2017: Connecticut
2018: Boston College
2019: Syracuse
2020: Boston College

Excellent xthumbsupx Great Scheduling HC!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

How about Lehigh - Penn State? Didn't the Engineers give PSU one of their all-time worst losses?

They did, behind the running of halfbacks Samuel Warriner and Paul Dashiell. Dashiell ended up as a HOF coach of Navy.

Fun facts: Lafayette had beaten them only two days earlier, 26-0, and Penn State was badly injured going into the game vs. Lehigh.

http://www.blackshoediaries.com/2010/6/28/651622/penn-state-history-the-lehigh


After the game against Lafayette and prior to the game against Lehigh, Penn State captain Charles Hildebrand and two other players went to Philadelphia to attend the funeral of Hildebrand's younger sister. The three men did not make it back to the game until the first half was nearly complete, and Penn State was forced to start the game with just nine players.

Not exactly a good idea to play a game down two men from the get-go.

More fun facts: Lehigh started the game out with five straight touchdowns, including a 75 yard run by Dashiell where he ran right through the Penn State defense. Their next possession Dashiell and Warriner razzle-dazzled and executed what appeared to be an end-around play for a sixth straight TD. The game was actually called early thanks to the "mercy rule," so Lehigh could have theoretically scored even more points!

[PAllen]

They did, behind the running of halfbacks Samuel Warriner and Paul Dashiell. Dashiell ended up as a HOF coach of Navy.

Fun facts: Lafayette had beaten them only two days earlier, 26-0, and Penn State was badly injured going into the game vs. Lehigh.

http://www.blackshoediaries.com/2010/6/28/651622/penn-state-history-the-lehigh



Not exactly a good idea to play a game down two men from the get-go.

More fun facts: Lehigh started the game out with five straight touchdowns, including a 75 yard run by Dashiell where he ran right through the Penn State defense. Their next possession Dashiell and Warriner razzle-dazzled and executed what appeared to be an end-around play for a sixth straight TD. The game was actually called early thanks to the "mercy rule," so Lehigh could have theoretically scored even more points!

An end around against a team playing with only 9 players? That's just mean. Oh well, they deserved it :).

[LUHawker]

Just to clarify that initial tweet, HC won't be playing Syracuse and Connecticut in the same season. Here's how HC's FBS games shakeout from 2017-2020:

2017: Connecticut
2018: Boston College
2019: Syracuse
2020: Boston College

That is a nice docket. Good names, regional, and maybe a couple of winnable games in the later years.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

That is a nice docket. Good names, regional, and maybe a couple of winnable games in the later years.

I agree! That is a great slate of FBS games! Even better that it's only one a year....

[Bogus Megapardus]

Fun facts: Lafayette had beaten them only two days earlier, 26-0, and Penn State was badly injured going into the game vs. Lehigh.

I was not aware of that. So we softened 'em up for ya, did we?

And then there's this tidbit: "Two weeks later [Penn State] defeated hated rival Bucknell 12-0 on the Old Main lawn on Thanksgiving Day to salvage a 2-2 season." So it looks like the Nittany Lions were outscored 12-132 vs. the Patriot League that year. Not too shabby for the good guys.

As aside, Lafayette lost to Lehigh that year but beat Rutgers and Penn. Lehigh beat Navy, Penn and Virginia but lost to Princeton. The good ol' days, right?




EDIT: UNH still was several years away even from having a football team at the time. So there.


SECOND EDIT: The posters on Black Shoe Diaries would fit in well here. The topic morphs from the 106-0 thrashing Penn State took from Lehigh, to the logistics of train travel at the time, to a discussion of why Lehigh changed its mascot from "Engineers" to "Mountain Hawks," to an analysis of the original Water Camp rules, to Bronko Nagurski, to speculation that Lafayette/Lehigh/Bucknell in recent years have been invited (but have refused) to face Penn State, to confusion over whether or not Pitt is a 1-AA school.

A PL-worthy thread!

[Bogus Megapardus]

BTW - sorry for the diversion. Now back to our regularly-scheduled Holy Cross discussion.

[Sader87]

The Holy Cross-Penn St rivalry, alas, wasn't as interesting.....Crusaders going 0-9 against the Nittany Lions, interestingly in a short span from 1954-1963:

http://cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_iaa/patriot/holy_cross/opponents_records.php?teamid=2514

Sort of the era when both Penn St was starting to emerge and Holy Cross was descending at the national level.

I don't foresee us ever playing them again.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

It's interesting to see the different paths the PL schools have taken. Rutgers is far and away Lehigh's most played FBS program. Compared to Holy Cross and Colgate, Lehigh has very little history with "big time" programs.

Notable FBS opponents
Rutgers 74
Penn St. 22
Navy 20
Army 11
Buffalo 9
UConn 11
Virginia 9
UMass 6
Temple 2
Syracuse 2

Rutgers, Army, Navy, UConn and Buffalo make sense to start with. In time, Duke, Wake Forest, Temple, UMass, Virginia, BC etc would be cool...

[Sader87]

Both Holy Cross and Colgate were probably playing "way ovah their heads" at the University/D1/today's FBS level from about the mid-60s to the early 80s given the size of their schools, institutional support etc etc.....the game had changed but both soldiered on as D1 programs until the 1-A/1-AA split.

When the Ivies went 1-AA both Holy Cross and Colgate basically followed suit.

[Bogus Megapardus]

It's interesting to see the different paths the PL schools have taken. Rutgers is far and away Lehigh's most played FBS program. Compared to Holy Cross and Colgate, Lehigh has very little history with "big time" programs.

Notable FBS opponents
Rutgers 74
Penn St. 22
Navy 20
Army 11
Buffalo 9
UConn 11
Virginia 9
UMass 6
Temple 2
Syracuse 2

Rutgers, Army, Navy, UConn and Buffalo make sense to start with. In time, Duke, Wake Forest, Temple, UMass, Virginia, BC etc would be cool...

IMHO, that portfolio does not equate to "very little" history with prominent FBS programs. Many other institutions pale in comparison.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Both Holy Cross and Colgate were probably playing "way ovah their heads" at the University/D1/today's FBS level from about the mid-60s to the early 80s given the size of their schools, institutional support etc etc.....the game had changed but both soldiered on as D1 programs until the 1-A/1-AA split.

When the Ivies went 1-AA both Holy Cross and Colgate basically followed suit.

Playing "way ovah their heads" is what the PL is all about, and it always has been. It's what distinguishes the league. We're the over-achievers; the ones who push the envelope for the betterment of our students. Otherwise we'd be the silly NESCAC or some such thing. None of us wants that.

[Go...gate]

I was not aware of that. So we softened 'em up for ya, did we?

And then there's this tidbit: "Two weeks later [Penn State] defeated hated rival Bucknell 12-0 on the Old Main lawn on Thanksgiving Day to salvage a 2-2 season." So it looks like the Nittany Lions were outscored 12-132 vs. the Patriot League that year. Not too shabby for the good guys.

As aside, Lafayette lost to Lehigh that year but beat Rutgers and Penn. Lehigh beat Navy, Penn and Virginia but lost to Princeton. The good ol' days, right?




EDIT: UNH still was several years away even from having a football team at the time. So there.


SECOND EDIT: The posters on Black Shoe Diaries would fit in well here. The topic morphs from the 106-0 thrashing Penn State took from Lehigh, to the logistics of train travel at the time, to a discussion of why Lehigh changed its mascot from "Engineers" to "Mountain Hawks," to an analysis of the original Water Camp rules, to Bronko Nagurski, to speculation that Lafayette/Lehigh/Bucknell in recent years have been invited (but have refused) to face Penn State, to confusion over whether or not Pitt is a 1-AA school.

A PL-worthy thread!

1889 - Colgate had not yet fielded a team! They got FB going the next year.

[DFW HOYA]

Playing "way ovah their heads" is what the PL is all about, and it always has been. It's what distinguishes the league. We're the over-achievers; the ones who push the envelope for the betterment of our students.

Maybe for the Pennsylvania schools, but Georgetown and Fordham continue to be underachievers in this regard. For all the money Fordham has spent on football over the years, they should be a national power.

[grayghost06]

Both Holy Cross and Colgate were probably playing "way ovah their heads" at the University/D1/today's FBS level from about the mid-60s to the early 80s given the size of their schools, institutional support etc etc.....the game had changed but both soldiered on as D1 programs until the 1-A/1-AA split.

When the Ivies went 1-AA both Holy Cross and Colgate basically followed suit.

Pretty accurate.

Eddie Anderson kept the Cross competitive at the Major College level until he retired after the 1964 season. In his 21 years as Crusader head coach, he went 11-10 against BC and had a 129-67 record. At the time of his retirement, BC lead the rivalry with Holy Cross only 30-28. It ended in 1986 with BC leading 48-31.

In many ways, that time period and scenario mirrored the demise of the Va Tech (VPI)- VMI Thanksgiving Day rivalry. The small school not being able to keep up with its' larger brother- a brother who committed resources to compete nationally. The relegation to I-AA status for the 1982 seasons marked the end of competitive games.

Colgate recognized the differences in philosophies and competitive disadvantages a bit earlier than HC and VMI. They ended their long time series with Syracuse while they still had the all-time lead.

It always a bummer when historical rivalries wither away but each school did what they felt was best and that is to be respected.

[Pard4Life]

It certainly is. OOCs:

JMU
@UNH
@Yale
Monmouth
@ Cornell

Someone must have grabbed the scheduling stick from Joe Sterrett while he was sleeping.

Not bad for Lehigh... JMU, UNH top-tier opponents... Yale is up and coming, and won at Cal Poly with a young team. Monmouth won't be easy, but not too much trouble either. Cornell should be your Columbia this year.

Looks like I will have to get a new pre-season hobby this year.. :(

Meanwhile, LC OOC schedule is semi-awful aside from W&M and Harvard.

[Pard4Life]

Nice job HC... rest of the PL has their work cut out for them developing a top FBS schedule.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Not bad for Lehigh... JMU, UNH top-tier opponents... Yale is up and coming, and won at Cal Poly with a young team. Monmouth won't be easy, but not too much trouble either. Cornell should be your Columbia this year.

Looks like I will have to get a new pre-season hobby this year.. :(

Meanwhile, LC OOC schedule is semi-awful aside from W&M and Harvard.

Lehigh's weak scheduling has been mostly a myth. For whatever reason, 2012's schedule was deemed the rule, not the exception....

Monmouth is now a full scholarship Big South team. Lehigh has developed a nice series with them over the last 15 years...

Last 5 years
2014 - JMU, UNH, Yale, Monmouth, Cornell
2013 - CCSU, Monmouth, Princeton, UNH, Columbia
2012 - Monmouth, CCSU, Princeton, Liberty, Columbia
2011 - Monmouth, UNH, Princeton, Liberty, Yale
2010 - Drake, Villanova, Princeton, UNH, Harvard

There's some really good names there. Playing Princeton basically every year is no picnic....

[citdog]

the fact that you pasty league defenders consider princeton to be a 'tough opponent" is hysterical

[Sader87]

the fact that you pasty league defenders consider princeton to be a 'tough opponent" is hysterical

I concur...

[Bogus Megapardus]

the fact that you pasty league defenders consider princeton to be a 'tough opponent" is hysterical

Princeton is a tough opponent in our neck of the woods. And that's the only neck that matters. xcoolx

[Go...gate]

Playing "way ovah their heads" is what the PL is all about, and it always has been. It's what distinguishes the league. We're the over-achievers; the ones who push the envelope for the betterment of our students. Otherwise we'd be the silly NESCAC or some such thing. None of us wants that.

Amen, brother.

[Southsider]

Princeton is a tough opponent in our neck of the woods. And that's the only neck that matters. xcoolx


Why bother responding to anything the dog posts...........xblehx

[Bogus Megapardus]

Why bother responding to anything the dog posts...........xblehx

I think he's pretty funny.

[citdog]

Why bother responding to anything the dog posts...........xblehx

reps to you.


Bless your heart!

[Pard4Life]

We've said it before... we could dress the Seattle Seahawks in Lafayette uniforms and we'd still lose to Princeton 45-21.