On stadium expansion and jumping to I-A

[GrizzlyBill]

I rarely have anything to say about I-AA football that someone else on here doesn't say better, but on the rumored move to expand Washington Grizzly Stadium, I have to chime in. I hate all this insane growth, and I oppose moving to I-A. Someone already said it in another thread: We have a good thing going in Missoula, but the dollars are too important. I wish they (the big wigs) could just concentrate on the game and watch the kids play.

Some beautiful football is played several saturdays every Fall in Missoula, I would hate to see that tradition killed by a never satisfied desire for more money. I doubt that jumping to a higher level with more scholarships, budget, staff, and facilities would continue to produce the kind of excellence we get now. Right now we (and the Bobcats) are getting the best talent the state produces. And, that talent competes well in I-AA nationally. However, to compete at the next level, we would have to recruit more from out of state. Right now I think the Cats and Griz together give about half their football scholarships to Montana kids (Someone here may have the real figures).

[Stang Fever]

I think Montana could do just fine at I-A...great place to play. if the program is developed just right could remind me of a Nebraska or some other state were football (the college) is the only major level sports team.

[GeauxColonels]

The only thing I think that would hinder a I-A program at Montana is the ability to recruit out of state. It would be a tough sell to get top-flight talent to go up to the state.

[Stang Fever]

Well when you getting ALL of the top talent instead of sharing it with MSU you could develop a nice little program right there. and eventually become a national power....i.e Nebraska

[GeauxColonels]

Well when you getting ALL of the top talent instead of sharing it with MSU you could develop a nice little program right there. and eventually become a national power....i.e Nebraska
The balance of power in I-A has shifted considerably since the days of Nebraska dominance. It would be much harder to put together a program like that now.

[Proud Griz Man]

UM has no plan for moving to I-A, just investigating some reasonable expansion plan for the stadium. Every game has 104% of capacity attendence. :rotateh:

[GGASU]

Stay I-AA until I-A sheds the retarded bowl system. The only other consideration would be an invite to a bcs conference.

[Ronbo]

The only thing I think that would hinder a I-A program at Montana is the ability to recruit out of state. It would be a tough sell to get top-flight talent to go up to the state.

Boise State doesn't have much trouble. Washington State is more remote and in a smaller town than Missoula. We have an attractive town with all the amenities, golly we even have indoor plumbing now.

[GeauxColonels]

Boise State doesn't have much trouble. Washington State is more remote and in a smaller town than Missoula. We have an attractive town with all the amenities, golly we even have indoor plumbing now.
I'm not saying that Missoula is a podunk town or anything like that...I agree that they could have limited success like Boise State...but on the I-A level, the true measure of success is competing with BCS conference teams and getting into a BCS bowl...I think that would be harder than some people think.

[mtgrizfan4life]

Nebraska comparison is fair in regards to the state and the allegiance to football. I have lived all but 10 years of my life in MT, those 10 were spent in Omaha. I hate the Huskers when I got there in 89, but it took 1 year there to become a fan, still am, and always will be. Up to that point in my life I had never seen such great fans at any level. The fans grew on me, then I took interest in getting to know the team. I am glad I did. Now I am back in MT and can honestly say MT GRIZ and NE Husker fans are amongst the TOP 10 fan bases in the nation, IMHO regardless of level. The fact is both states are all about football and THE SHOW in there states. Granted, Omaha also has its fair share of great basketball players too. GRIZ and Husker fans are as avid as any being these teams do not share fan allegiance with professional teams. As for shear numbers, no mt does not compete being we do not have the population. As for percentage of population in the state that are fans, NE and MT have very few rivals. TOO bad MT ST and MT cannot combine programs. However, chances are very unlikey one school moving up without the other in MT. IF and when the GRIZ move to 1a, i pray the fans will prove they are true fans verses fair weathered. NE has many years of allegiance compared to MT. Even when NE struggles, they still sell out every game. That is something MT would still have to proof, being we have not had bad season in over 20 years now. Rather it be AA or A, I love games at WA GRIZ and cannot wait for another 4k-6k FANATICS every home game.

[mcveyrl]

JMU has always spread rumors of expanding the stadium and making the jump. Apart from the ridiculous recruiting problems this would create, this is a terrible idea! Why would the program want to risk having a Buffalo-esque existence in I-A when they are (at least recently) competing for a national championship (or at least a playoff) most years (oh yeah, I know why, money!!). On top of that, there is no excitement like college playoff football!!

As far as the Grizz, I think, for reasons already mentioned, that they could fiield a competitive I-A program. I think their transition would be a lot like Marshall's. At the same time, I was at the '04 national champtionship and saw the Montana fans' passion and wonder whether it would be as fun for them if they were to play in the Potato Bowl as opposed to the already exalted excitement of the playoffs.

[89Hen]

Boise State doesn't have much trouble.
I'd rather be Montana than Boise State. If it weren't for the blue turf, 99% of America wouldn't know who they were. Mention Boise to anyone around here and the turf is the first thing they say. :twocents:

[PantherRob82]

I think a lot of recruits would go to Montana. If you see that scenery and the area's commitment to football you'd be ready to sign up.

[JDC325]

Out of all the 1-AA teams who would have the best shot in being sucessfull in a short period of time moving to 1-A it is Montana having been a fixture at or near the top of 1-AA forever and the best fan support in 1-AA IMO.

Distantant seconds top four minimum 5-10 years.
App
GSU
Delaware
UMASS

I am not trying to start a debate on whether they should or not that horse has probably been beat to death on your own boards like on TSC. Just saying these are the teams that would make the most sense if they decided to go that route.

[JMUfan2008]

Don't count JMU out too quickly. I wish I remembered exaclty what Bourne, our AD, said, but we are more or less planning on making major upgrades to our stadium and moving up to I-A in the next 10-15 years depending on how quickly we can get the type of money needed to upgrade.

[SoCon48]

ASU needs expansion badly just to seat the present I-AA crowds. We operated last year at 139% capacity and have had one game at 144% this year.

[89Hen]

Out of all the 1-AA teams who would have the best shot...
Chances for success are slim for any I-AA at this point IMO. Troy, ArkSt, FAU.... no offense to our one ArkSt fan that comes here, but I would absolutely hang myself if my school were clinging to the bottom of I-A. Also sorry to the Hilltopper fans, but be prepared for the long march to death.

[mcveyrl]

I think the best teams that have a chance are the ones that don't compete with a lot of teams in their region for recruits. That's why I agree that Montana probably has the best chance out of anyone to make the jump.

[Stang Fever]

I think the best teams that have a chance are the ones that don't compete with a lot of teams in their region for recruits. That's why I agree that Montana probably has the best chance out of anyone to make the jump.


Thats all I was trying to say with the whole Nebraska connection.

[JMU_MRD'03-'07]

If you are at 104% capacity every game, stadium upgrades are a must.
"If you build it, they will come."
Even if you don't make the jump to I-A (which I believe to be foolish when you can compete well in the highest level of championship football), it will help recruiting, home field advantage, and ticket sales! I believe that what you put in is what you'll get out.
Don't let your facilities fall behind your fan's demands.

[JMUfan2008]

If you are at 104% capacity every game, stadium upgrades are a must.
"If you build it, they will come."
Even if you don't make the jump to I-A (which I believe to be foolish when you can compete well in the highest level of championship football), it will help recruiting, home field advantage, and ticket sales! I believe that what you put in is what you'll get out.
Don't let your facilities fall behind your fan's demands.

...like JMU...the past 2 seasons I'm pretty sure we've been sold out of tickets for weeks before each of the games and the student section always seems to be full...we need permanent seats in that endzone NOW. We needed the new field, but by next year I really want to see some new stands... JMU football is a fast growing program (basically before 2004 and post 2004 has been a complete 180) and I think it'd be great if we had room to fit everyone who wants to come to the games.

http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/2006/Internet/attendance/IAA_CAPACITY.pdf

top 5 by %:
1) UNH 147.36% after 3 games
2) ASU 140.45% after 4 games
3) CCU 125.22% after 3 games
4) Cent Conn St 117.58% after 2 games
5) JMU 104.64% after 3 games (bound to go up after Homecoming this weekend)

I think anything over 90% average should make the school start thinking about upgrading. 95% should be the most any school should have, upgrading should be happening. 100% should mean immediate action. 105%...no school should top this... Of course these numbers depend on whether the numbers are increasing and whether they are expected to stay at least at these numbers. I don't know much about Central Connecticut, but UNH, ASU, CCU, and JMU should all be upgrading in the near future (UNH especially)

[ucdtim17]

Everyone always forgets about this when talking about I-A moves, but Montana would lose all the I-A transfers they get each year. They'd be competing with established I-A programs for recruits without the safety net of I-A transfers that come because they can play right away

[89Hen]

BTW, by definition you really can't exceed 100% capacity.

[JMUfan2008]

BTW, by definition you really can't exceed 100% capacity.

sorry...100% seating capacity...apparently some people have a lot of standing room and people sitting on laps...haha

[arkstfan]

Chances for success are slim for any I-AA at this point IMO. Troy, ArkSt, FAU.... no offense to our one ArkSt fan that comes here, but I would absolutely hang myself if my school were clinging to the bottom of I-A. Also sorry to the Hilltopper fans, but be prepared for the long march to death.

As I've said before if the NCAA hadn't adopted the rule preventing I-A's from counting any I-AA wins, Arkansas State probably never would have moved to I-A and I suspect we are not the only school that was in that boat.

I know its blasphemy here but I'd never happily swap the bowl experience for the playoff experience.

[BillLuc1982]

I wonder why some I-A schools aren't forced to go to I-AA. Imagine Temple in I-AA xlolx

[mcveyrl]

I know its blasphemy here but I'd never happily swap the bowl experience for the playoff experience.


You're right, that's blasphemy.

[BearsCountry]

I think with Montana they got to figure who they like seeing the best on their home field. If demand is high for Portland St, Northern Arizona, Sac State etc, then I would hate to see when a Boise St, Nevada, Idaho, Oregon St type would come to Missoula on a regular basis.

[Ronbo]

I've talked about this before Bears. If we had Washington State and BYU for non conference and Boise State and Fresno State for conference we could sell out a 30,000 seats easy. Maybe 35,000. But the fear is that everyone would bail if we weren't competitive.

[arkstfan]

I wonder why some I-A schools aren't forced to go to I-AA. Imagine Temple in I-AA xlolx

Get your yucks at Temple's expense while you can. If they don't right that ship pretty soon Temple football will be a memory, mostly a bad memory but a memory.

I think they are far more likely to just pull the plug than move to I-AA.

[*****]

... I think they are far more likely to just pull the plug than move to I-AA.Maybe not if they are moving from BS to CS?

[*****]

hahahaha just thought of it:
getting rid of the A
but gain the B
and the C

current I-A can still say the will be alphabetically ahead of current I-AA. :)

[elkmcc]

I think with Montana they got to figure who they like seeing the best on their home field. If demand is high for Portland St, Northern Arizona, Sac State etc, then I would hate to see when a Boise St, Nevada, Idaho, Oregon St type would come to Missoula on a regular basis.

The man surely has a point there. The only reason I might be interested in a I-A move would be to see some bigger name teams come to Missoula. No offense to the directional schools intended.

[UMTbuds]

I've talked about this before Bears. If we had Washington State and BYU for non conference and Boise State and Fresno State for conference we could sell out a 30,000 seats easy. Maybe 35,000. But the fear is that everyone would bail if we weren't competitive.

I really like to think our fans are strong enough to endure a couple .500 or less seasons at the beginning. However, basketball is becoming scary good and if the jump to 1-a is made, and football struggles, the school sport could swing in the round ball direction, and football may take awhile to get off the ground.

[arkstfan]

Maybe not if they are moving from BS to CS?
From what I hear out of Philly internal support for football is not that strong and they would have already pulled the plug but a few key people insisted that they try the MAC membership thing to see if a softer schedule can cure their ills.

[Ronbo]

Picture of Wash/Griz for the Stones concert.

http://www.egriz.com/GrizPics2/albums/userpics/10001/normal_RollingStonesMSOc.jpg

[GeauxColonels]

Picture of Wash/Griz for the Stones concert.

http://www.egriz.com/GrizPics2/albums/userpics/10001/normal_RollingStonesMSOc.jpg
Now THAT is impressive! :bow: :bow:

[DaGriz]

Here's another article from our AD today on the expansion and a jump.

"The question is often asked: "If Washington-Grizzly Stadium were to expand, are we planning to make a move to Division I-A in football?" To that, I assure you this has nothing to do with any expansion talks. In fact, UM would currently qualify for Division I-A status, should we ever choose to do so, because our average three-year football attendance figures top 15,000 annually (UM competes in Division I in all its sports, and only football has a sub-division).

Our facilities are also at a level that would keep us competitive at I-A. However, at this time, a move is not eminent, nor even being discussed. We like where we are, and look at continuing to be "positioned" should a move ever need to be made based upon the future of I-AA football."

http://www.missoulian.com/articles/2006/10/21/grizmania/griz-gameday/gday05.txt

[slycat]

if ya'll were to expand, where would you add the seating?

[Ronbo]

A second tier on the East side is what's being talked about.

[Proud Griz Man]

A second tier on the East side is what's being talked about.

Not necessarily.


Further discussion would help decide whether expansion should proceed on the east, west or south side of the stadium. It has to take into account any related renovations of present facilities, which could be costly, as well as providing more restroom facilities, concession stands and storage, while also addressing ADA issues.

[MplsBison]

I hate all this insane growth, and I oppose moving to I-A. Someone already said it in another thread: We have a good thing going in Missoula, but the dollars are too important. I wish they (the big wigs) could just concentrate on the game and watch the kids play.


You're either growing or you're dying.

There ain't no 3rd direction.


IE, there is no such thing as "let's just stay the same every year".

If you want to be on the top of I-AA every year, you still have to keep growing, because all the other schools are growing. If you just stay the same, you'll go down.


But I mean, for crissakes, you hate growth?

How old are you? 87?


Come on now. Growth is model for every single college and university in America. They'd all cringe to know that their fans were against growth.


That being said, there is absolutely no way that Montana couldn't compete for the WAC championship, RIGHT NOW. After the way NDSU just played Minnesota, the gap between the 50-119 schools in I-A and the top I-AA schools is very....VERY small. Perhaps non existant.

You'd be playing Boise this year for the league title.


And your basketball team obviously would be doing quite well too, seeing how you handled Nevada last year. Heck, if you won the WAC in bball, YOU might be the ones getting the #5 seed instead of 12.

[Sam Adams]

I really enjoy 1AA football. In order to make me want to move up to 1A it would have to be a great opportunity otherwise it doesn't seem worth the hassle and expense.

What do you folks think about setting up a 1AA Super Conference with teams like Montana, UD, UMass, Youngstown, App State, JMU, GSU and a few others. Ultimately after 3-5 seasons the entire conference could just go to 1A if it made sense to do so.

[MplsBison]

I don't see why UMass couldn't do what UConn has done.

The only thing is that they play in Hartford.


It would be harder to do the same thing in Boston.

[UMass922]

I don't see why UMass couldn't do what UConn has done.

UConn was able to ride the extraordinary enthusiasm, excitement, and support generated by the sustained success of its basketball programs. That had everything to do with UConn's belief that it could successfully upgrade to big-time college football. UMass doesn't have that kind of athletic climate.

Personally, I would only be interested in UMass going I-A if it meant joining the Big East. I want that rivalry game with UConn! And I'd want BC on the OOC schedule every year.

[Sam Adams]

I don't see why UMass couldn't do what UConn has done.

The only thing is that they play in Hartford.


It would be harder to do the same thing in Boston.


UMass wouldn't want to do what UConn has done. No interest in playing in Boston either. UMass would stay on Campus thank you very much.

[UMass922]

I don't see why UMass couldn't do what UConn has done.

The only thing is that they play in Hartford.


It would be harder to do the same thing in Boston.

I don't like that UConn plays in East Hartford rather than in Storrs, but at least it's not ridiculously far away. And the UConn basketball teams already play a lot of their games off-campus in Hartford anyway, so at least the football team doing the same isn't anything Husky fans aren't already used to.

UMass playing two hours away from campus in Boston would be beyond absurd.

[Death Dealer]

OK, you guys can relax.....FU is not going to go I-A. xlolx

[DaGriz]

What do you folks think about setting up a 1AA Super Conference with teams like Montana, UD, UMass, Youngstown, App State, JMU, GSU and a few others.

We already have, it's called the playoffs. You just have to earn your shot at playing in it each year.

[MplsBison]

UConn was able to ride the extraordinary enthusiasm, excitement, and support generated by the sustained success of its basketball programs. That had everything to do with UConn's belief that it could successfully upgrade to big-time college football. UMass doesn't have that kind of athletic climate.


Didn't UMass make the final four not too long ago?

[UMass922]

Didn't UMass make the final four not too long ago?

Yes, once, ten years ago. But UMass's brief flirtation with basketball success (which it obviously did not sustain) is absolutely nothing compared to the "Huskymania" which has dominated the state of Connecticut for the past fifteen years (and only seems to keep getting more and more feverish). There's just nothing like that climate in Massachusetts as far as UMass goes.

[MplsBison]

Doesn't mean there couldn't be.

And doesn't justify completely ignoring any possibility of I-A for UMass.

[UMass922]

Doesn't mean there couldn't be.

And doesn't justify completely ignoring any possibility of I-A for UMass.

Of course there could be, and of course it's not necessarily a reason for ignoring the possibility of upgrading to I-A. I'm just explaining why the respective situations with UConn and UMass are very different.

[Sam Adams]

Not so different. UMass would go 1A if the BE invited us, that is the only reason UConn went 1A.

[JohnStOnge]

Someone already said it in another thread: We have a good thing going in Missoula, but the dollars are too important.

There were numerous discussions of the issue of moving to I-A for money. To me, it's clear that a I-AA does not in any way guarantee a better bottom line by moving to I-A. Revenues increase dramatically but so do expenses. Montana probably has a better bottom line right now (revenues - expenses) than most non BCS I-A programs.

[newsbreaker]

Watching WKU moving in the I-A direction is an interesting thing, and it's an issue that isn't going away at the I-AA level. These types of moves have been happening for a while now, and more administrations are going to be tempted by the dreams of BCS money.

Really, however, if we look at schools that have made the move, there is a lone success story, in a very unique environment. Boise State has been something of a "perfect storm," but that's simply not realistic for most schools. If ever there was a school primed for the move, it was Marshall, and yet they are now a Division I-A afterthought. The rest of the "jumpers" aspire to even be that.

This is going to be the fate in Western Kentucky, and it would be the fate almost certainly in places like Montana. Thankfully, this discussion has not even begun to take place in my hometown of Cedar Falls.

Yes, Montana has been wildly successfull at the IAA level, and yes they draw well enough to move. They are also competing for a National Championship every single year. That will NEVER happen at the IA level. If anything, you're fighting to play in a marginal to forgotten bowl game in mid-december. This, again, will be WKU's fate. NO team from the SunBelt has ever gone to any Bowl game other then the "New Orleans Bowl"...easily the worst of an increasingly watered down bowl bunch.

It's a nice dream to pretend you're going to go to a "real" bowl game *someday*, but it's just not that likely.

Neither is these dreams of brining in BCS level teams to play in your stadium. BCS teams don't go play at non-BCS places very often, and if you really think a team like Nevada is a marquee opponent, you're fooling yourself.

So you're left, like most of the MAC and WAC conferences, selling less important accomplishments to fans who have to pay more to see you. The best football point was made earlier and passed by. When you move to IA, you lose those IA transfers, and there isn't enough talent in a state like Montana to compete at the higher ends of the IA world, even if you get every in-state recruit you want. Nebraska is a neat story, but it's also a singular one.

In the end, you increase your costs, put shackles on the rest of your athletic programs, lay yourself before the Title IX alter, and in a short ammount of time end up like so many other schools...forgotten with nowhere to go.

[BearsCountry]

Marshall is hardly an afterthought. Actually their move to CUSA from the MAC probally hurt them on the field more, but they gained in the pocket book. MAC the tv deal was around 100k now they get a million dollars just from tv.

[UMass922]

Not so different. UMass would go 1A if the BE invited us, that is the only reason UConn went 1A.

Yes, but why do you think UConn was such an appealing invite for the Big East to begin with? Because of the massive, rabid, dedicated UConn fan-base that has made UConn basketball enormously profitable. The Big East--and UConn itself, of course--figures that that fan-base is large enough and obssessed enough that it can be sold on big-time football.

[RadMann]

I have no desire for UD to go to I-A. In the A10 I see JMU as having the most desire to make the move and they could probably pull it off. UMass does not have the fan support for it or the finances. I think Montana could make a good go of it in I-A.

[bkrownd]

But I mean, for crissakes, you hate growth?

How old are you? 87?


You don't have to be "87" to remember what good things have been lost due to the unfortunate American addiction to "growth".

[bkrownd]

Yes, but why do you think UConn was such an appealing invite for the Big East to begin with? Because of the massive, rabid, dedicated UConn fan-base that has made UConn basketball enormously profitable. The Big East--and UConn itself, of course--figures that that fan-base is large enough and obssessed enough that it can be sold on big-time football.

They also had an administration and government that was committed to making it happen. I'm not totally confident that the people in charge in Amherst and Boston get the job done.

[bkrownd]

I don't see why UMass couldn't do what UConn has done.
The only thing is that they play in Hartford.
It would be harder to do the same thing in Boston.

UMass isn't anywhere near Boston. UMass isn't even near Springfield, but let's not discuss that place either.

[PantherRob82]

I really enjoy 1AA football. In order to make me want to move up to 1A it would have to be a great opportunity otherwise it doesn't seem worth the hassle and expense.

What do you folks think about setting up a 1AA Super Conference with teams like Montana, UD, UMass, Youngstown, App State, JMU, GSU and a few others. Ultimately after 3-5 seasons the entire conference could just go to 1A if it made sense to do so.

If you saw the atmosphere at Stambaugh Stadium in Youngstown yesterday you might leave them out. Great stadium, great tailgating. Crowd was pretty quiet and people were leaving all throughout the 4th quarter, long before the game was out of hand.

[PantherRob82]

I'm glad to be where we are. I-AA playoff football and 3 straight NCAA B-Ball tourney appearances. You don't have to be I-A to have success in your sports programs.