PATSY Ratings - Lehighl's Class of 2018

[Lehigh Football Nation]

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2014/03/patsy-ratings-lehighs-class-of-2018.html

The other members of the Patriot League won't like this.

[RichH2]

Not bad. Fair assessment. Had us a bit higher. Included an adjustment for Yosha and more points for WRs based on Andy saying 5 WRs in class. You're right tho 2 are listed as Athletes. Did not consider that.

[carney2]

The standings (With 1 To Go):

1. LEHIGH 79
2. LAFAYETTE 77
3. COLGATE 76
3. HOLY CROSS 76
5. FORDHAM 63
6. BUCKNELL 39

[seenalot]

The standings (With 1 To Go):

1. LEHIGH 79
2. LAFAYETTE 77
3. COLGATE 76
3. HOLY CROSS 76
5. FORDHAM 63
6. BUCKNELL 39

Not unreasonable, but not sure they rank over LC, CU and HC. But, as has been said, anything within a few points isn't worth arguing about and its undoubtedly a good class especially with Yosha. Not sure I get the comment about the LU/LC game being w/in a touchdown or did I mis-read something?

[carney2]

Speed has always been a serious flaw in the Patsy Ratings. That’s because the information varies from sporadic to useless. In the first place, The Committee does not and cannot treat the Patsies as a full time job. The information has to be accessible - and equally accessible for all schools. The Committee has kept it simple by finding Speed numbers in the (now four) rating service write-ups or not at all. If it isn’t there, it doesn’t exist for Patsy purposes. No combing through tweets or home town newspapers. In addition, the information can be head scratching bordering on useless. A single recruit may be listed as running the 40 in 4.5 by one rating service and 4.95 in another. The Committee always chooses the lowest published number, but tell me that isn’t questionable. Simply put, for 2-star and lower rated recruits speed information is not consistent and, more often than not, is unavailable.

Which brings us to the case at hand. Lehigh is the top Patsy primarily because they were awarded 12 Speed points – a relatively high number for this year. Is it because they recruited really fast kids? I’m sure they did, but more important is the fact that Andy Coen recruited kids who just happened to have speed information included in their rating service write-ups. Case in point on the other side is Frank Tavani at Lafayette. He went into the recruiting season stating that he would be recruiting speed. He came out saying he got it. How many Speed points were awarded to his recruiting class? Two. Is that because he doesn’t know a fast kid when he sees one? Is it because he lied? No and no again. It is simply because the rating services did not include enough information for the kids he recruited.

This is not to say that this Lehigh recruiting class is not very good. Take out the Speed points and the Patsies still say “exceptional.” I’ll even say that LFN seems to have bent over backwards not to look like a homer. Lehigh’s Needs points, in my opinion, are understated. Still the chants of “We’re number one!” by the dung crowd ring hollow. Their top 3 Patsy competitors this year – Colgate, Holy Cross and Lafayette – averaged 4 Speed Points apiece. If Lehigh had garnered that average of 4, their Patsy total would be 71 (4th) instead of 79 (1st).

Just sayin’ – for the record.

[RichH2]

Accurate analysis carneyxthumbsupx Tome anything within 5 to 10 points in scores is for all intents and purposes dentical.

[ngineer]

Pretty good analysis. I agree it would have been nice to get 1-2 more linemen, but I think we have two seniors who have been awarded an additional medical redshirt year, so the depth should not be as big a concern...for this year. Those numbers will certainly have to improve next year. Also agree that any school within 10 points on this scale is basically a wash. What we have seen so far is pretty good parity..with exception.

[RichH2]

Yeah, incoming tide raises all boats. Hoyas just refuse to get a boat.

[carney2]

To me anything within 5 to 10 points in scores is for all intents and purposes dentical.

You got it. 79, 77, 76, and 76 = no one has run away from any of the others. Throw in Fordham who is currently approaching roster staffing in a different way - with transfers - and I think 5 of the schools have blown the doors off. A pretty good day for Patriot League football.

As long as the T-word has come up, I will say that I am firmly and irrevocably against including transfers in the Patsies.

[Pard4Life]

Said to myself weeks ago: "Of course, Lehigh is going to get the top marks. LFN is in charge. Watch" Lo and behold...

[Gater]

Colgate has 2.5 recruits at d-line (one listed at o-line/d-line). Two rated. Lehigh has three recruits on d-line. Two rated. Lehigh gets three points. Colgate gets zero. A three point swing for half of an unrated player? Seems like the committee should be reprimanded for this by deducting five points from Bucknell's Patsy rating.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

xpopcornx

[van]

Said to myself weeks ago: "Of course, Lehigh is going to get the top marks. LFN is in charge. Watch" Lo and behold...

Keep talking to yourself, nobody else cares.

[carney2]

Said to myself weeks ago: "Of course, Lehigh is going to get the top marks. LFN is in charge. Watch" Lo and behold...

C'mon, P4L, get with the program. One of the (few) upside pieces of the Patsies is its objectivity. Get a copy of the rules and sit in front of your computer for hours and you will arrive at virtually the same numbers as LFN. VERY little opinion in there and, in my opinion (that word again), LFN undershot on Lehigh. Was he just reluctant to let it hit 80? I don't know

[DFW HOYA]

C'mon, P4L, get with the program. One of the (few) upside pieces of the Patsies is its objectivity. Get a copy of the rules and sit in front of your computer for hours and you will arrive at virtually the same numbers as LFN. VERY little opinion in there and, in my opinion (that word again), LFN undershot on Lehigh. Was he just reluctant to let it hit 80? I don't know

Agreed.

The Committee can now take a six week break and figure out what to do with the seventh rating. It won't be in the single digits but the gap will be striking and a point of concern for more than a few of us.

[van]

Have there ever been four ratings in the 70's before? I am guessing not and a clear indication that change in aid is having and effect, hopefully positive but it may be a few years before we answer that.

[RichH2]

Quick memory scan, dont think there was a similar group. Schollies have substantially altered the parameters w so many * recruits now. How that will impact actual OOC results will be interesting.

[van]

Yep, potential is not the same as execution so will need to see how the next few years go.

[carney2]

Have there ever been four ratings in the 70's before? I am guessing not and a clear indication that change in aid is having and effect, hopefully positive but it may be a few years before we answer that.

Just an aside, but LFN added a 4th rating service (sorry, but I forget the name) to the Patsies data pool this year, and it has caused some ratings inflation. Still, I think that the top 5 classes (including Fordham whose Patsy Points total was lower primarily due to having only 10 bodies) are, as a group, the best we've ever seen in the Patriot League. The Ivys may be shunning us just in time.

[RichH2]

247 added. Much better coverage of FCS classes. And more *s available. :) And adds more published names to count.

[ngineer]

Quick memory scan, dont think there was a similar group. Schollies have substantially altered the parameters w so many * recruits now. How that will impact actual OOC results will be interesting.

Yes, considering some of the kids coming in had offers from lower tier FBS schools like the MAC as well as Marshall. The "physicality bar" appears to have been raised.

[Lehigh'98]

Said to myself weeks ago: "Of course, Lehigh is going to get the top marks. LFN is in charge. Watch" Lo and behold...

Waaaa :((

Seemed like a very objective write up to me...

[Gater]

For sure more scouting services means more *'s to go around but has the grading process gotten tougher when it comes to filling needs? Colgate had linebackers as a need. Had four recruits. Two rated. One two stars. Got one out of four points. Seems like a few years ago, four recruits at a position with two rated (one with two stars) would be killing it. Can't imagine Colgate's D-line (with only 2.5 recruits) having Curtis Mitchell--two stars and offers from Akron, Air Force and Navy and Connor Buck (listed on Scout) with offers from UMASS and UNH (among others) would have netted 0 out of 5 need points a few years ago. Seems like Colgate would need four or five d-line recruits with FBS offers to get two or three points these days (if I could figure out how, I'd put a winking emoticon here and it would be a hit with everyone who went to Lafayette).

[RichH2]

Repeating perceived anomalies does sort of sucking the fun out of Patsys. I did Gate just now and came out 1 pt lower. Take carney's advice, do it yourself and you will come out w similar result.

[Gater]

Sorry, was trying more for good-natured ribbing than anything. I am very appreciative of the Patsys and the good people who put in the time to do them.

[RichH2]

Then my apology for jumping. Just get testy when folks treat this like a death match for superiority :)

[Gater]

You're right to jump. I guess part of me wishes the Patsys led to debate as opposed to questioning (the way I did) with the committee ultimately winning by telling people like me that they can't possibly understand what goes into the ratings. Sadly, it gets worse-- I was honestly hoping that you guys would shut me down by pointing out that when Coach Hunt talked about the class that he said the Colgate recruit listed at OL/DL was going to be used on the O-line. I'm not saying this was good planning on my part.

[carney2]

part of me wishes the Patsys led to debate

So, let's debate. You've seen the Patsies now for everyone except Georgetown - and even DFW admits that the Hoyas won't be worth debating. The ratings say that 4, maybe 5, teams did pretty well. Despite stars, trigger points, speed info, etc. you must believe in your heart of hearts that some did better than others. Let's hear it. What's your order, one thru six - and WHY?! Homer posts accepted.

[RichH2]

So, let's debate. You've seen the Patsies now for everyone except Georgetown - and even DFW admits that the Hoyas won't be worth debating. The ratings say that 4, maybe 5, teams did pretty well. Despite stars, trigger points, speed info, etc. you must believe in your heart of hearts that some did better than others. Let's hear it. What's your order, one thru six - and WHY?! Homer posts accepted.
Yup :). Of course LU hit all its mark with studs :) , y'all can debate who came in 2nd.

[carney2]

Yup :). Of course LU hit all its mark with studs :) , y'all can debate who came in 2nd.

Homers welcome, but Homers with well explained and thought out arguments and looking beyond their own noses will be wined and dined, not just let in the door. I'm hoping we're better than this.

[RichH2]

Just teasing:). I'll post my thoughts on LU when I get home.

[van]

Based on PATSY criteria the LU score seems about right. My personal thought is the RB was more of a need than WR and ignoring the transfer, the incoming RBs do not seem distinguished. A big part of the score is for speed, which is a real wild card. HC, Pards and Gate recruits might have just as much speed, but less publicized. Would have liked to see more "stars" on the defensive side of the ball, as that was the real weakness last year. Of course there are some that believe the D weakness was more of a scheme and coaching issue than talent.

[breezy]

Speed is an important -- I might even say critical -- factor in recruiting. I understand the concept of using only speed numbers from the recognized recruiting sites (instead of, for example, Hudl or NCSA, where the numbers are most likely "self-reported" and therefore susceptible to exaggeration -- perhaps gross exaggeration). For example, I reviewed the entire Holy Cross recruiting class. Under the Patsy guidelines, HC received 3 speed points. Using other sources, primarily Hudl and NCSA, HC would have had 26 speed points. Not very likely. So, speed is really a wild card in the Patsy ratings.

On the other hand, speed is not everything. Several years ago, HC received a commitment from a recruit in the mid-Atlantic area. On a local HS forum, someone asked if anyone knew anything about this player. There was a response to this inquiry that read: "Fast as hell; not much of a football player."

[CFBfan]

Speed is an important -- I might even say critical -- factor in recruiting. I understand the concept of using only speed numbers from the recognized recruiting sites (instead of, for example, Hudl or NCSA, where the numbers are most likely "self-reported" and therefore susceptible to exaggeration -- perhaps gross exaggeration). For example, I reviewed the entire Holy Cross recruiting class. Under the Patsy guidelines, HC received 3 speed points. Using other sources, primarily Hudl and NCSA, HC would have had 26 speed points. Not very likely. So, speed is really a wild card in the Patsy ratings.

On the other hand, speed is not everything. Several years ago, HC received a commitment from a recruit in the mid-Atlantic area. On a local HS forum, someone asked if anyone knew anything about this player. There was a response to this inquiry that read: "Fast as hell; not much of a football player."

#'s on those sites are SELF REPORTED

[RichH2]

OK,here goes.
Andy covered all positions,other than Ks quite well

#1 need wasa run stuffer to shore up an extremely porousinside run D.Cavenas fits the bill big and agile. 2 time A-S Penn. Also got 2 highly recruited ILBs in Coffman and McCain. The latter being probably the best D recruit. Alsobrought in 2 DLs In Gille and Johnson both very good.Johnson on Fla A-S Elite team and is clocked at 4.66?40
Next up O skill positions. We lose 3 QBs to graduation this year. Andy brought in 2 **s in Craven and Timochenko. I note that Baur ,;isted as a TE was a star QB in Hs big and agile. Promised a shot at QB.
AT RB have to disagree with van. Even discounting Yosha,Chris Leigh from Mich is a stellar recruit. A 200lb RB that runs a 4.5/40.Had 1757 yds and 27 TDs as a senior.
WR restocked superbly with 5 kids ( 2 listed as Aths) Lots of speed and size. The listed WRs include Kelsey A-S 1st team Fla, Casey A-S 2nd team Fla,Pelletier 2 time A-S in Fball and Bball
OL only got 2 but with 14 returning OL not a major need. Even there Andy brought in 2 studs. Kadeem Smoth A-S Fla 2nd team ,very highly recruited by FBS and FCS.
Last but not least Andy brought in our #3 need for a cover corner in 3 CBs and a FS
Given such a short staff Andy did an amazing job building a remarkable class.

[Lafalumni29]

I'm curious how the ratings shake out without the speed points. B/c let's face it, we're talking about FCS scholarship fball. If they couldn't run, they wouldn't be given a scholly.

[Doc QB]

I'm curious how the ratings shake out without the speed points. B/c let's face it, we're talking about FCS scholarship fball. If they couldn't run, they wouldn't be given a scholly.

EXACTLY. And to extend this further, people need to realize just how fast a 4.5 kid is....there are not nearly as many on PL rosters as you think, single digits actually. For the whole league. That is big time speed, remembering that the 4.3-4.4 kids are elite, 4.5 is blazing as well. Watch the combine, the elite WRs for the entire nation are in that range, and not all of them. These kind of guys usualy end up FBS and bigger programs within FBS, too.

When I was at LU we had VERY few of those, Horace Hamm may have been the only one. Probably only played against a few as well. Barry Boroussa from UNH may hve been one, Keith Elias from Princeton may have been 4.6, but was a punisher as well. And they were damn good. Two WRs from Idaho ran by us all day, and they may have been 4.5. Erik Marsh, for all his numbers, skills, pounding yards in four games and 1000 yrds alone against LU...was prob a 4.6. So, I think those speed numbers, self reported or not, are hard to embrace. Self reported or HS coach reported, maybe combine reported, just too many confounding reports, and whose going to put their realy 4.8 time down when they are a skill guy? Answer--no one. Gotta go to the tape and who else wanted them.

[RichH2]

4.5 is indeed very fast. PL getting more fast kids but not elite speed I agree. Fastest ever at LU was a 4.29/40 ( Gerran Walker at Bears rookie camp). Very rare. Speed in Patsys only includes combine ,camp or track results ,not self reported times. Even then they are subject to wide variation. One WR for LU had a 4.58 and a 4.76 at different camps the same summer. Were they both hand timed or one perhaps electric? Also Patsys dont include recruits with no independent times. That takes away possible points from a score but is noindication of whether HC actually recruited speed.
One just has to look at Pards or Cross,both coaches pleased with recruited speed, yet Patsys may not fully reflect that.
I dont see any way to remedy that short of requiring all coaches to make their prospects attend combines or camps :)
It may well be that the impact of speed in Patsy analysis s/b minimized a bit.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

To briefly explain the inclusion of the 247sports rankings, the Committee felt like their numbers this season reflected that this outfit, unlike in 2013, had blossomed to becoming a bona-fide service with to some degree their own ratings. Backed by CBS, their presence could really not be ignored this season.

The basic philosophy of the Committee was "more data is better", and thus it was included. This opened up the possibility that kids that only fogged a mirror in one place could be ** recruits in 247sports, more speed information could be available, etc., and thus some classes could have significantly more points. But in practice the inflation of points was actually pretty slight, perhaps confirming a ** kid elsewhere. The Committee seems to recall that the class most positively influenced in this way was Fordham, but it's a bit hazy.

The Committee also wanted to remind people that the key of the Patsy Ratings is to compare all the classes with a similar methodology within a particular year. As long as the criteria are applied evenly to all the teams, it should be fair for a particular year.

[carney2]

I'm curious how the ratings shake out without the speed points. B/c let's face it, we're talking about FCS scholarship fball. If they couldn't run, they wouldn't be given a scholly.

Ask and it shall be provided. The Patsies sans Speed points:

1. LAFAYETTE: 77-2 = 75
2. HOLY CROSS: 76-4 = 72
3. COLGATE: 76-6 = 70
4. LEHIGH: 79-12 = 67
5. FORDHAM: 63-13 = 50
6. BUCKNELL: 39-3 = 36

[carney2]

OK,here goes.
Andy covered all positions,other than Ks quite well

#1 need wasa run stuffer to shore up an extremely porousinside run D.Cavenas fits the bill big and agile. 2 time A-S Penn. Also got 2 highly recruited ILBs in Coffman and McCain. The latter being probably the best D recruit. Alsobrought in 2 DLs In Gille and Johnson both very good.Johnson on Fla A-S Elite team and is clocked at 4.66?40
Next up O skill positions. We lose 3 QBs to graduation this year. Andy brought in 2 **s in Craven and Timochenko. I note that Baur ,;isted as a TE was a star QB in Hs big and agile. Promised a shot at QB.
AT RB have to disagree with van. Even discounting Yosha,Chris Leigh from Mich is a stellar recruit. A 200lb RB that runs a 4.5/40.Had 1757 yds and 27 TDs as a senior.
WR restocked superbly with 5 kids ( 2 listed as Aths) Lots of speed and size. The listed WRs include Kelsey A-S 1st team Fla, Casey A-S 2nd team Fla,Pelletier 2 time A-S in Fball and Bball
OL only got 2 but with 14 returning OL not a major need. Even there Andy brought in 2 studs. Kadeem Smoth A-S Fla 2nd team ,very highly recruited by FBS and FCS.
Last but not least Andy brought in our #3 need for a cover corner in 3 CBs and a FS
Given such a short staff Andy did an amazing job building a remarkable class.


And the other schools?

[Lafalumni29]

Ask and it shall be provided. The Patsies sans Speed points:

1. LAFAYETTE: 77-2 = 75
2. HOLY CROSS: 76-4 = 72
3. COLGATE: 76-6 = 70
4. LEHIGH: 79-12 = 67
5. FORDHAM: 63-13 = 50
6. BUCKNELL: 39-3 = 36

Lafayette first?! I'm shocked and amazed! :)

LC is going to have to finish first to stay near top of the league. I don't ever see us getting transfers.

[carney2]

LC is going to have to finish first to stay near top of the league. I don't ever see us getting transfers.

I'm sure there have been a few, but I can't think of any. There certainly haven't been any Nebrich-type difference makers.

In fact, here's a challenge to one and all: name any and all transfers to the Patriot League who have "made a difference."

[RichH2]

Good question. Do recall a few. There was a DB from Snow JC who was solid ( a better student than player ) Another from oregon St who never saw the field. And,of cousre, the QB from Rutgers ,who I wish had never seen the field. i have no doubt I am not recalling all over the years. Oh,just remembered the OL from Cincinnati. He would have been good but did notpass physical.

[Fordham]

I'm sure there have been a few, but I can't think of any. There certainly haven't been any Nebrich-type difference makers.

In fact, here's a challenge to one and all: name any and all transfers to the Patriot League who have "made a difference."
Tebucky Jones had a heckuva year last year.

Do you count JuCo transfers? If so, we've had a few good ones including second team All-PL safety Levon Williams. Also, Greg Wilson played WR for us as a JuCo transfer from CA and was signed by the Broncos just before the SB. http://nypost.com/2014/01/23/fordhams-greg-wilson-goes-from-salesman-to-super-bowl/

[DFW HOYA]

In fact, here's a challenge to one and all: name any and all transfers to the Patriot League who have "made a difference."

Dan Weiss?

[RichH2]

:) Apt but think carney wanted guys who played football not ones that played with football :).

[ngineer]

Speed is an important -- I might even say critical -- factor in recruiting. I understand the concept of using only speed numbers from the recognized recruiting sites (instead of, for example, Hudl or NCSA, where the numbers are most likely "self-reported" and therefore susceptible to exaggeration -- perhaps gross exaggeration). For example, I reviewed the entire Holy Cross recruiting class. Under the Patsy guidelines, HC received 3 speed points. Using other sources, primarily Hudl and NCSA, HC would have had 26 speed points. Not very likely. So, speed is really a wild card in the Patsy ratings.

On the other hand, speed is not everything. Several years ago, HC received a commitment from a recruit in the mid-Atlantic area. On a local HS forum, someone asked if anyone knew anything about this player. There was a response to this inquiry that read: "Fast as hell; not much of a football player."

But it's the one thing that cannot be taught.

[ngineer]

OK,here goes.
Andy covered all positions,other than Ks quite well

#1 need wasa run stuffer to shore up an extremely porousinside run D.Cavenas fits the bill big and agile. 2 time A-S Penn. Also got 2 highly recruited ILBs in Coffman and McCain. The latter being probably the best D recruit. Alsobrought in 2 DLs In Gille and Johnson both very good.Johnson on Fla A-S Elite team and is clocked at 4.66?40
Next up O skill positions. We lose 3 QBs to graduation this year. Andy brought in 2 **s in Craven and Timochenko. I note that Baur ,;isted as a TE was a star QB in Hs big and agile. Promised a shot at QB.
AT RB have to disagree with van. Even discounting Yosha,Chris Leigh from Mich is a stellar recruit. A 200lb RB that runs a 4.5/40.Had 1757 yds and 27 TDs as a senior.
WR restocked superbly with 5 kids ( 2 listed as Aths) Lots of speed and size. The listed WRs include Kelsey A-S 1st team Fla, Casey A-S 2nd team Fla,Pelletier 2 time A-S in Fball and Bball
OL only got 2 but with 14 returning OL not a major need. Even there Andy brought in 2 studs. Kadeem Smoth A-S Fla 2nd team ,very highly recruited by FBS and FCS.
Last but not least Andy brought in our #3 need for a cover corner in 3 CBs and a FS
Given such a short staff Andy did an amazing job building a remarkable class.

Very true. I was concerned about how decent this class would be considering the coaching vacancies having an impact, and the reduction of manpower for the recruiting. I think, what I've said for years still applies, that student-athletes looking at PL schools are looking beyond simply the immediate personnel, but at the bigger picture of what the Institution will be providing for the player's future 50 years. Not to say that personalities, skills or facilities have no impact, but the focus is different than most FBS schools and many FCS schools.

[RichH2]

Example, Kadeem Smith ,bunch of FBS offers chose LU to major in engineering.

[carney2]

The Squawkers, of course, talk only about themselves. That's because, as we all know, Patriot League football is about the Dungheaps and them only.

Anyway, the following is my assessment of the recruiting classes and is a bit more like what I had in mind when I said "Let's debate." Apologies to RichH, Van, etc., I know I should have devoted this entire page to the Brownturds because that's all that matters.

1. LAFAYETTE – Tavani filled ALL his needs, with special emphasis on building around his phenom QB. Quality at WR, RB and DB should contribute immediately. Quality in the OL bodes well for the future. Frank says he recruited speed despite what the Patsies say. I believe him.

2. HOLY CROSS – After some bad recruiting and bad playing, the ‘saders needed almost everything. To some extent they got it. Gilmore is also giving his ROY QB the tools to win. Frankly, given how low the Crossers had sunk, this class will have more positive impact than any in the League – starting now.

3. LEHIGH – Kudos to Coen for getting a quality group while his coaching staff was in chaos. The Squawks may have filled a screaming need at QB and spread some quality into other areas too. That quality seems a bit light on the defense, but the faithful say they need coaches and schemes, not bodies. We’ll see. A real good group. Not League best.

4. COLGATE – Lots of star rated players and are building an OL for the ages. But ya gotta ask, What’s ‘gate’s biggest problem year in and year out? Defense. And what did this class do to plug that gaping hole? Not much.

5. FORDHAM – 5th, 6th, whatever, the Rams couldn’t care less. Moorhead recruits on college campuses, not at high schools. Unfortunately, the Patsies don’t count transfers in the calculations. Fordham’s rookies are big on quality, lacking in quantity.

6. BUCKNELL – It’s hard to see the Buckies digging out of the hole with this group going against what the rest of the League has added to their rosters. They needed a lot and got little.

Enough of this. Let's talk Lehigh.

[RichH2]

Unnecessarily snarky. I assumed from your post that you wanted each of us to support our scores and then debate. OK, dont really know in depth other teams needs and recruits but I'll read up and post my thoughts.

[carney2]

Unnecessarily snarky. I assumed from your post that you wanted each of us to support our scores and then debate. OK, dont really know in depth other teams needs and recruits but I'll read up and post my thoughts.

I freely admit to snarky and am overjoyed that it was received in the manner intended. Unnecessarily? I think not. Just to put it in perspective: xlolx xsmiley_wix and xblehx

Why wait till November?!

[RichH2]

Okmy opinion FWIW

1A Lafayette Tavani seemed to hit all of needs with quality recruits. Overall best depth and quality.
1B Lehigh Not as deep a class but Andy also hit all of his needs with excellent quality
1C Cross Depth of quality best class for Cross in many years. Finally addressed need for athletes and speed
!D Gate Solid class addressing most needs with quality.D tho raises questions for me.
1E Fordham excellent quality small class move them down a notch or two
2. Bucknell all D,1 QB, Susan betting the farm on one rollof the dice by overloading an excellent returning D. Pretty much dooms BU into an ongoing cycle of such classes.IMO,shortsighted and relies overmuch on frosh stepping in quickly in non emphasized areas.
TBD Hoyas actually of the few verbal commits I've seen they are pretty good. Do not expect any change here when GU does announce class

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Overall I though Holy Cross' was the biggest impact class to me, just across the board. I don't think anyone recruited the secondary better, and leaping in and getting McBeath when he decommitted from UMass was a real coup. All that at a 315 lb nose tackle.

Lehigh's strength is recruiting at OL and DL, and that's where they did their best work.

For Colgate it all comes down to those FBs and RBs, where it seems they did well, but again, it's shocking they didn't get more on defense.

Lafayette's class comes down to the QB and TE combination. If those guys are home runs, they have a home run class. Lots of bulk on the O line, which will also help.

Fordham's team has great names across the board - just not a lot of them.

Bucknell's big score in their class was their TE. But the class is ridiculously stacked towards the defense. Maybe coach Susan has another CJ Williams-type late signing, I'm not sure.

[Sader87]

Holy Cross recruited very well last year too....though it was largely overlooked by both the Committee and ultimately, a very poor 2nd half of the season.

[van]

Seems to me the HC class hit their needs the best and agree with Carney on near term impact for them. Disagree with the committee mark down of Buffs, but their class is definitely second tier compared to rest of league. Rams will be just fine with their class given their starting point is ahead of the rest. Like Rich, I don't know enough about details of any but LU, except for Pards, and can't say anything good about them.

[RichH2]

I really would like to get BU take on their class in comparison to rest of us. Will Susan's gamble pay off?

[ngineer]

I really would like to get BU take on their class in comparison to rest of us. Will Susan's gamble pay off?

If not, I guess he gets a black eye??

[carney2]

I really would like to get BU take on their class in comparison to rest of us. Will Susan's gamble pay off?

What's the "gamble?" If we can hold you to zero points, we get no worse than a tie?

Anyway, the "BU take" is if he can't shoot and/or play the post we don't really give a crap.

[RichH2]

:) true but its water polo season for them now.

[RichH2]

Andy completed staff. Botts named DC. Brisson back as WR coach.

[Lehigh'98]

Will be very interested to see how the team looks under new coaching staff. May very well have a better D. Although it's tough to envision anything but taking a step back on O.

[carney2]

Will be very interested to see how the team looks under new coaching staff. May very well have a better D. Although it's tough to envision anything but taking a step back on O.

With almost 6 months to go until blocks are thrown in anger it appears that all but Fordham are fighting for second place. Even so, based on the way the 2013 season ended, I'm thinking that the Squawks need to upgrade the D, and need the rookie QB to be of Pujals/Reed quality long before his senior year.

[DFW HOYA]

With almost 6 months to go until blocks are thrown in anger it appears that all but Fordham are fighting for second place. Even so, based on the way the 2013 season ended, I'm thinking that the Squawks need to upgrade the D, and need the rookie QB to be of Pujals/Reed quality long before his senior year.

1. Fordham
2. Lafayette/Lehigh annual winner
4-6. Some mix of Colgate, Bucknell, HC
----
7. Georgetown

[van]

Will be very interested to see how the team looks under new coaching staff. May very well have a better D. Although it's tough to envision anything but taking a step back on O.

Hard to imagine the D being worse too.

[RichH2]

Not quite as pessimistic 98. OOC will be a tough shake out particularly for QB. Anticipate Nick will do OK as he learns. Dont expect he will make as many waves as Reed and Pujols but fell he will be a force come PL sched. D just by having Botts will be much better. Agree w carney tho if QB for us does not perform we will be a 500 team. Need not star but must manage.

[Lehigh'98]

I don't think I'm being very pessimistic at all. Lehigh has had 4 very good years (1 outstanding in 2011) on offense. With Cecchini and RJ gone along with big Q at qb, it's very hard to envision them not regressing some. Coen isn't as involved as he used to be in the offense. They could still be formidable. Also, the D was so bad last yr, can't see them not improving some.

[RichH2]

True enif, with Matt out for Spring Nick will certainly get enuf reps. Gives Folmar an opportunity toget a fee lfo rour O,i hope. Olwill have toretool a bit with Douglas seemingly not coming back. Going tobe a veryinteresting spring.
definitely a next man up seasonfor us.

[ngineer]

Glad to see decision made on staff. Is Wicher staying as secondary coach? Not clear on that. Possible that Andy will become more engaged in the O this year with a new OC and considering his own background. I hope the weather on April 19 is good so that we can get a good look at how well Shafnisky can move the O.
Also, Ryan had the special teams, I think; so who is taking that over?

[RichH2]

Article does not specify a ST coach. Sutyak seems to be only one with prior experience.
With only 2 healthy QBs, Nick should get reps. OL and DL hopefully will get sorted out. Loss of Douglas at G a surprise ,depth helps there. DL ,all sophs out so dont expect much. LB and WR competition will be fierce for 2 deep.

[carney2]

This is not a :) . You Squawks need a better Lehigh forum. All of your in-house chatter keeps spilling over into this, a supposedly "national" meeting place.

[ngineer]

This is not a :) . You Squawks need a better Lehigh forum. All of your in-house chatter keeps spilling over into this, a supposedly "national" meeting place.

And this is a Lehigh thread regarding our recruiting season, which has been effected by coaching changes. Deal with it.:p

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Article does not specify a ST coach. Sutyak seems to be only one with prior experience.
With only 2 healthy QBs, Nick should get reps. OL and DL hopefully will get sorted out. Loss of Douglas at G a surprise ,depth helps there. DL ,all sophs out so dont expect much. LB and WR competition will be fierce for 2 deep.

Do you think this years team will be deeper than last year? Even with the number of new faces? Depth really seemed to plague Lehigh down stretch in '13. With a quick glance of the roster there's a lot of familiar faces that remain. Those guys might not have been every down players but they saw significant time as the year went on. The DL should benefit the most imo.

[RichH2]

Depth excellent most everywhere. OL,LB,DB, TE all have quality depth.DL has depth, quality spotty. WR lost best but has ridiculous depth. QB,FB no depth at all. How new staff meshes w players and system will set O. I think a real DC like Coach Botts will remedy most problems on D. Given sched may be a better team but difficult to count on a better record.

[van]

worried about depth at RB, granted 2 new faces coming in, but of the 3 "veterans" only 1 has any carries and has not impressed, 1 injured all last year and no info on the third.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

worried about depth at RB, granted 2 new faces coming in, but of the 3 "veterans" only 1 has any carries and has not impressed, 1 injured all last year and no info on the third.

RB is my biggest concern. Sodeke has shown very little imo. Sherman will be last years Chagani.

I think the front 7 has the potential to be really good. The LB's, as a group will be top shelf by FCS standards. The DL, while still small, should be able to rotate a lot of bodies. Newton could be in line for a really big year.

The running game and secondary/changes on D will determine this year's ceiling imo. The WRs and OL will give Shafnisky targets and time. Hopefully spring practice goes well. I'm optimistic about the JMU game for now.....

[RichH2]

Sodeke is pedestrian,no big goofs,no big plays. Brown,however,is very good . He and Sherm neck and neck before injury. Healthy now ,will serve well. Yosha ,a wild
card but very talented.What if Crawford hurt? Not one back up. Move a TE in,OK but fills the spot,how well? We dont use FB in that many sets but necessary nonetheless.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

This is not a :) . You Squawks need a better Lehigh forum. All of your in-house chatter keeps spilling over into this, a supposedly "national" meeting place.

"Lafayette vs. New Hampshire"

[Franks Tanks]

RB is my biggest concern. Sodeke has shown very little imo. Sherman will be last years Chagani.

I think the front 7 has the potential to be really good. The LB's, as a group will be top shelf by FCS standards. The DL, while still small, should be able to rotate a lot of bodies. Newton could be in line for a really big year.

The running game and secondary/changes on D will determine this year's ceiling imo. The WRs and OL will give Shafnisky targets and time. Hopefully spring practice goes well. I'm optimistic about the JMU game for now.....

You are VERY optimistic. Part of the reason the secondary looked so bad last year is because your LB's are absolutely terrible at pass coverage. Hopefully they spent more time on their drops than their abs this off season. Lehigh has serious questions around pass coverage, and your expected starting QB has shown virtually no ability to pass like a FCS QB. I suppose Lehigh will be pretty good on the lines, but need a lot of work to even have a chance against JMU.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

You are VERY optimistic. Part of the reason the secondary looked so bad last year is because your LB's are absolutely terrible at pass coverage. Hopefully they spent more time on their drops than their abs this off season. Lehigh has serious questions around pass coverage, and your expected starting QB has shown virtually no ability to pass like a FCS QB. I suppose Lehigh will be pretty good on the lines, but need a lot of work to even have a chance against JMU.

The LB's are s very talented group. I really believe a lot of problems on defense was due to the lack of continuity within the coaching staff. With Wilcher moving on and Roberts back to his normal coaching position, there's definitely reason to be optimistic.

In terms of Shafnisky' ability to pass, I suggest you watch the HC and Colgate games. When given the opportunity he has a good arm and solid awareness. You have to remember he was a 3rd stringer that was forced into action. He was probably getting very few, if any reps in practice. In truth, he should have never seen the field last year. But the fact he got his feet wet should only help him....

[RichH2]

Optimistic, yup. D issues stemmed IMO from DL ineffectiveness which in turn allowed OL to get at LBs who had to play tighter to line. Same issue forced Ss up to stop run. Coverage sucked more a result of scheme not ability. DCs had CBs playing off WRs to limit big plays. As we saw all yr a spectacular failure. D was a cascade failure from DL back.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The LBs struggled because they took their time to come together as a unit. Two true freshman had serious time, and a sophomore was a starter underneath. Only Muhammad had significant experience. In 2014, they all return with more experience, and the unit will be much improved.

[Franks Tanks]

The LB's are s very talented group. I really believe a lot of problems on defense was due to the lack of continuity within the coaching staff. With Wilcher moving on and Roberts back to his normal coaching position, there's definitely reason to be optimistic.

In terms of Shafnisky' ability to pass, I suggest you watch the HC and Colgate games. When given the opportunity he has a good arm and solid awareness. You have to remember he was a 3rd stringer that was forced into action. He was probably getting very few, if any reps in practice. In truth, he should have never seen the field last year. But the fact he got his feet wet should only help him....

The LB's be talented in rushing the passer and stopping the run, they are poor in pass coverage. They are bigger guys who just don't seem to move all that well in space. Regardless of scheme I think those guys will continue to struggle in pass coverage.

Shaf will get better. He has size and athleticism, but was successful when given very easy reads. Nothing wrong with that per se, but he will need to get a better command of the offense. He will also no longer have the luxury to be tutored by the best QB coach in the league. Lehigh has had above average QB play for several years. I think Lehigh will be below average in that dept next year.

[carney2]

"Lafayette vs. New Hampshire"

Where we talk about

Lehigh football

Colgate hockey

Lehigh football

Beers and wines of the east coast

Lehigh football

[carney2]

Let's talk linebackers, assistant coaches, running backs,...

No, let's talk about the elephant in the room - the gaping hole at quarterback. It is rare that the Patriot League trophy goes to a team with a "manage the game" QB, which is code for "he's not really good enough." The Squawks' senior doesn't have it and the sophomore, who could be serviceable in the long run, is not on the same level as some other sophomores in the League. You NEED a freshman to perform miracles or you're just another team fighting to get out of the middle of the pack.

[RichH2]

Amusing to see the selective memory many have. I wont compare Nick to Reed or Pujols. Agree he may not yet be at their level. It does not follow that he is just not that good. Inconsistent last year. Tentative in Pard game when thrown in . In his other 2 games some rookie mistakes but both excellent performances showing off a strong arm and athleticism. As there are only 2 QBs for Spring, he will get the bulk of attention from OC and the necessary reps. Last yr, he spent most of season as the 3rd QB,very few reps and zero PT until injuries to 1 and 2 late in the season.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The elephant in the room is that nobody knows Folmar's style, period. For all we know he's more than willing to start Timochenko against JMU with a good August. Cecchini only would start a freshman in a big game at QB if the bamboo were already under his fingernails, and even then it would be iffy. Case in point: 149.

[RichH2]

Good point on Folmar. He has excellent rep as a QB coach. We'll see. One big plus to new OC, no tie to any one QB. The best fit for him will play and he will have all spring for he and Nick to mesh.
A daunting task to be sure to mesh so many new coaches and players to build a winning team. Much tougher OOC next year will test this team and staff early.

[carney2]

Much tougher OOC next year will test this team and staff early.

Good point. It's as if Lafayette and Lehigh traded schedules for one year. An at-large playoff bid will be hard to come by with this schedule.

[RichH2]

Very true carney. A necessary upgrade from last year :).

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Very true carney. A necessary upgrade from last year :).

Do really think this years schedule is tougher? UNH has the potential to be REALLY good, i get them. I don't see JMU, at home, under a completely new staff, being much different than Princeton last year. Yale and Cornell have been middling the last few years. Monmouth is still a bit shaky.

The JMU game will tell a lot from an athletic standpoint.

[RichH2]

Starting out w UNH and JMU, that's much harder than CCSU & MU.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Starting out w UNH and JMU, that's much harder than CCSU & MU.

The first two games are definitely harder. But top to bottom, I don't believe it's anymore difficult. The third game against Yale on road is no picnic. Still it's a game that Lehigh should be able to win imo. Then Monmouth and Bucknell come to Goodman before the Hawks hit road to face Cornell. The Big Red have been middling to say the least lately.

Fordham and Colgate at home is nice too. Plus, there's no trip to Easton.

I'm intrigued for the spring game. I think this year has a lot of potential. There's obviously question marks, but everyone in the league faces them. It's hard to argue that anyone has a better foundation for success than LU over the last 20+years. The disappointment of going 18-4 the last two years and having nothing to show for it should also fuel the hunger.

I'm really looking forward to the JMU game. Both programs will enter the game with a lot to prove. Lehigh has the athletes to compete and beat the Dukes at home imo. The question will be continuity and improvement on defense. As for UNH, just get out of Durham alive.....

[RichH2]

:) Apt for UNH. JMU as opener even home no picnic. Lets remember as easy as our OOC was last yr, they all were cardiac events.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

:) Apt for UNH. JMU as opener even home no picnic. Lets remember as easy as our OOC was last yr, they all were cardiac events.

Trust me, JMU at home will be a tough task. Still, at best they'll enter Goodman as a likely fringe Top 25 team early in the year. This isn't UNH last year or 2011, and certainly not Villanova in 2010. There's no reason to believe, imo, that this won't be a competitive, 60 minute game.....

@ UNH is the only game where I don't think Lehigh has a chance barring a miracle. Fordham at home will be very difficult but it's a league game at home. Still, it's hard to see Lehigh winning that one at this point. JMU, @ HC and Lafayette could determine the fate of the season in terms of league and at large consideration.....

[citdog]

at large consideration.....


that was a joke......right?

[RichH2]

Well owl, an at large would be nice but but very unlikely IMO. OOC I would guess 2-3,3-2 is very possible . An undefeated PL sched. Not very likely. 8-3 would be an achievement. Not enuf to get an at large. Unless Rams take a step back,they should take PL.

[carney2]

One man's opinion:

JMU - Underdog – CAA, 6-6 last year, notable wins = Richmond and Villanova
@ UNH – Underdog – CAA, 10-5, playoff semi-finals
@ Yale – Tossup – Ivy, 5-5
Monmouth – Favored – NEC, 6-6, gave the Squawks a battle last year
Bucknell – Favored – Patriot, 6-5
@ Cornell – Favored – Ivy, 3-7
Fordham – Underdog – Patriot, 12-2
@ Georgetown – Favored – Patriot, 2-9
@ Holy Cross – Tossup – Patriot, 3-9
Colgate – Tossup – Patriot, 4-8
@ Lafayette (150) – Underdog – Patriot, 5-7, Yankee Stadium hype

That's Favored 4, Underdog 4, Tossup 3. Best guess is 7-4 or 6-5. Winning record may depend on beating Yale and Holy Cross.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Lehigh would have to go 4-1 or 5-0 to merit at-large consideration, most likely. You would think it would be difficult to shut Lehigh out if they beat both JMU and UNH, but I won't put anything past the committee after denying Lehigh with 10 wins in 2012.

If they go 3-2, forget it.

[carney2]

Lehigh would have to go 4-1 or 5-0 to merit at-large consideration, most likely. You would think it would be difficult to shut Lehigh out if they beat both JMU and UNH, but I won't put anything past the committee after denying Lehigh with 10 wins in 2012.

If they go 3-2, forget it.

You have a very selective memory, LFN. The Squawks became one of the few teams in FCS history not to get an at large playoff bid with 10 wins because the 10 victories, viewed individually or collectively, were worth far less than a thimble of warm spit. Putting it in something of a formula, which may baffle many of the Lehigh folks:

Didn't Play Anyone = Didn't Beat Anyone = No Playoff Bid

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

At large consideration is not "getting an at large bid"....

If Lehigh enters #150 at 7-3 they'll be in the discussion. I believe they were one of the first four out this past year....

[Lehigh Football Nation]

You have a very selective memory, LFN. The Squawks became one of the few teams in FCS history not to get an at large playoff bid with 10 wins because the 10 victories, viewed individually or collectively, were worth far less than a thimble of warm spit. Putting it in something of a formula, which may baffle many of the Lehigh folks:

Didn't Play Anyone = Didn't Beat Anyone = No Playoff Bid

Fact remains that they're the first team with 10 Division I wins in the post-playoff expansion era ever denied an at-large bid to the playoffs. Other teams had 10 wins, but had one (or more) sub-DI wins. Other teams went 10-1 and were denied when the field was 16 teams. But only Lehigh was denied admittance with 10 D-I wins since the playoffs expanded.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

One man's opinion:

JMU - Underdog – CAA, 6-6 last year, notable wins = Richmond and Villanova
@ UNH – Underdog – CAA, 10-5, playoff semi-finals
@ Yale – Tossup – Ivy, 5-5
Monmouth – Favored – NEC, 6-6, gave the Squawks a battle last year
Bucknell – Favored – Patriot, 6-5
@ Cornell – Favored – Ivy, 3-7
Fordham – Underdog – Patriot, 12-2
@ Georgetown – Favored – Patriot, 2-9
@ Holy Cross – Tossup – Patriot, 3-9
Colgate – Tossup – Patriot, 4-8
@ Lafayette (150) – Underdog – Patriot, 5-7, Yankee Stadium hype

That's Favored 4, Underdog 4, Tossup 3. Best guess is 7-4 or 6-5. Winning record may depend on beating Yale and Holy Cross.

The only three games that Lehigh enters the year as an underdog are JMU, UNH and Fordham. Lafayette is a toss-up. Those two enter the league race as 2A and 2B. Both suffered key losses in personnel and staff but return a strong talent base. Also, both are coming off glass half-full/half-empty seasons. If the game was played 9/1 LC would get the nod because of Reed. By game 11 these two should both be more comfortable in their skin. #150 will be like no other. If Lehigh had 6 more wins than Lafayette entering the game I wouldn't feel comfortable. Emotions will high....

Chances of winning
JMU - 35%
@ UNH - 5%
@ Yale - 60%
Monmouth - 75%
Bucknell - 70%
@ Cornell - 65%
Fordham - 30%
Georgetown - 95%
@ Holy Cross - 55%
Colgate - 65%
Lafayette - 50%

[carney2]

The only three games that Lehigh enters the year as an underdog are JMU, UNH and Fordham. Lafayette is a toss-up. Those two the enter the league race as 2A and 2B. Both suffered key losses in personal and staff but return a strong talent base. Also, both are coming off glass half-full/half-empty seasons. If the game was played 9/1 LC would get the nod because of Reed. By game 11 these two should both be more comfortable in their skin.

Chances of winning
JMU - 35%
@ UNH - 5%
@ Yale - 60%
Monmouth - 75%
Bucknell - 70%
@ Cornell - 65%
Fordham - 30%
Georgetown - 95%
@ Holy Cross - 55%
Colgate - 65%
Lafayette - 50%


Another man's opinion - and well stated. I go back however, to one of my prior arguments. The Patriot League is a QB league, and the Squawks have a hole to fill. You just don't win this thing without a good one under center. "Game manager" doesn't get it done. Looking at the recent history of Patriot League champions:

2009 - Holy Cross, Dominic Randolph
2010 - Lehigh, Chris Lum
2011 - Lehigh, Chris Lum
2012 - Colgate, Gavin McCarney
2013 - Lafayette, Drew Reed

[CFBfan]

At large consideration is not "getting an at large bid"....

If Lehigh enters #150 at 7-3 they'll be in the discussion. I believe they were one of the first four out this past year....

if LU goes into "#150" they won't even get a sniff c'mon let's be real....10-0=NO BID but 7-3 DOES NO WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! not even if they beat LC NO WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Another man's opinion - and well stated. I go back however, to one of my prior arguments. The Patriot League is a QB league and the Squawks have a hole to fill. You just don't win this thing without a good one under center. Looking at the recent history of patriot League champions:

2009 - Holy Cross, Dominic Randolph
2010 - Lehigh, Chris Lum
2011 - Lehigh, Chris Lum
2012 - Colgate, Gavin McCarney
2013 - Lafayette, Drew Reed

Absolutely, and Lehigh had a good one last year before BB broke his collarbone. Shafnisky was a great catch when he was recruited. The fact is, he won two games as a 3rd string QB that should never have seen the field. No one's trying to prop him up but there's no reason to completely discredit his potential either. He outplayed Pujals...

Why he did not see more PT remains the great mystery of #149....

There's no doubt that he still has more to prove. However, in limited time, he did as well as anyone could have expected.

Reed and Pujals still have more to prove. I have to believe the 'Pards desperately want their first winning season since 2009. Holy Cross was 2-9 last year.....

[van]

Another man's opinion - and well stated. I go back however, to one of my prior arguments. The Patriot League is a QB league, and the Squawks have a hole to fill. You just don't win this thing without a good one under center. "Game manager" doesn't get it done. Looking at the recent history of Patriot League champions:

2009 - Holy Cross, Dominic Randolph
2010 - Lehigh, Chris Lum
2011 - Lehigh, Chris Lum
2012 - Colgate, Gavin McCarney
2013 - Lafayette, Drew Reed

Agree on QB comments, but Shaf may turn out to be much more than a game manager, too early to tell. Or, one of the frosh may turn out to be the next Reed or Pujols. Everyone chasing Rams however.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Hard to judge Shaf on one full game and two half games - a game and a half where he played very well, incidentally. We'll have a much better idea in August where he's really at.

[carney2]

I have to believe the 'Pards desperately want their first winning season since 2009. Holy Cross was 2-9 last year.....

For the first time in a few years the Pards schedule says they should be able to make that "winning season" happen. Not sure how realistic it is, but I think they're shooting for more than that.

Actually, the Cross was 3-9 in 2013, beating Dartmouth, Bucknell and Central Connecticut. But that's just a different shade of dismal, isn't it? Even playing a lot of freshmen this year I see the Crusaders occupying one of those "serious" spots on everyone's schedule.

[carney2]

Reed and Pujals still have more to prove.

Absolutely correct. Freshman phenoms have flamed out in the past. And, what happens when the League coaches adjust to whatever it is that these two are doing well and force them to do the things that they don't do so well? Still, these two are light years ahead of anyone we've seen in the Patriot League at this stage of their careers in a long time.

[RichH2]

Absolutely correct. Freshman phenoms have flamed out in the past. And, what happens when the League coaches adjust to whatever it is that these two are doing well and force them to do the things that they don't do so well? Still, these two are light years ahead of anyone we've seen in the Patriot League at this stage of their careers in a long time.


Yup, very true. Mere luck or are these the new parameters of PL recruiting. It'll be interesting to see. For this season, not one team enters w/o holes to be filled. Fordham certainly the odds on favorite and they need to find a D. Conversely Bucknell has by far most daunting D in search of an O. Other than Hoyas and Rams , all of us are looking at frosh and soph kids to really contribute everywhere. While very important,particularly at QB, the reality is we all need to rely on our upperclass players for the bulk of the PT.
LU faces a major transition year. New OC and DC. How quickly can this team mesh ? RB,QB,DL,CB must be settled. A winning season and competing for PL are reasonable expectations.Course, will root for more.

[carney2]

Yup, very true. Mere luck or are these the new parameters of PL recruiting.

Almost certainly the latter with a little luck thrown in. Recruiting for last year's freshmen was not too great League-wide. For this year's recruits, the coaches seem to have gotten their acts together. So, we should see more of this in 2014. Cross, for instance, has a freshman LB who should make things happen.

[RichH2]

Almost certainly the latter with a little luck thrown in. Recruiting for last year's freshmen was not too great League-wide. For this year's recruits, the coaches seem to have gotten their acts together. So, we should see more of this in 2014. Cross, for instance, has a freshman LB who should make things happen.
McBeath is a real FBS get for Cross. Everyone got a few more of these recruits this time, he is potentially the best D recruit.

[heath]

Most of you seem to forget the "Heart" factor. Only a few freshman will play even if others should be given the opportunity. Many highly recruited players just do not pan out. In each class their is always a player or two that was signed to fill a class that ends up being all league. The magic about recruiting is to find these guys. Look in the past and see if your school has found these guys...............I can think of a few

[RichH2]

Reminds me of the Graz. True WO,scout team, ST spot play ,then boom All PL at LB. They are great but few and far between. Lum, dropped by all once injured LU got him w a need schollie. Over the years lots of great kids,but as always must recruit as high as possible to maintain the success of program.

[ngineer]

The LB's be talented in rushing the passer and stopping the run, they are poor in pass coverage. They are bigger guys who just don't seem to move all that well in space. Regardless of scheme I think those guys will continue to struggle in pass coverage.

Shaf will get better. He has size and athleticism, but was successful when given very easy reads. Nothing wrong with that per se, but he will need to get a better command of the offense. He will also no longer have the luxury to be tutored by the best QB coach in the league. Lehigh has had above average QB play for several years. I think Lehigh will be below average in that dept next year.


You imply that you know something about our new OC. He was a pretty good QB in his day--DII All-American, I think. Cecchini was a WR. Granted, Chick was a very good QB coach, but the mere fact he left does not mean that the new guy cannot improve matters of mechanics and reading defenses.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Any word on how the players are taking to Folmar? Injuries? Defections?

[RichH2]

Early, but they seem to like him. Very little system work yet. Kids like new RB coach. Douglas OG starter off roster. No idea why. Lots of precamp injuries and issues. All soph DL kids out,Laub,McHale,Poutier. Lawson and Camasta mono. No word yet on new dings.

[citdog]

All soph DL kids out,Laub,McHale,Poutier. Lawson and Camasta mono.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nxr4xfkD-Ms

[carney2]

I say again, you Squawkers need your own sports board. I know you have one, but it obviously isn't working. For Colgate, Fordham, Holy Cross and Lafayette these "conversations" are held at home, not in a national forum. Bucknell and Georgetown, of course, don't discuss football anywhere. So, please, dear brownshirts, go behind the barn if you are determined to play with yourselves.

[RichH2]

Would love to but since posters are here,here us where we must talk. Confuzzling tho,why it irks you so. As far as I know, no one is compelled to slog thru any thread. Like the doc says if it hurts when you do that,dont do that :)

[citdog]

Would love to but since posters are here,here us where we must talk. Confuzzling tho,why it irks you so. As far as I know, no one is compelled to slog thru any thread. Like the doc says if it hurts when you do that,dont do that :)

When did Rich become a 13 year old galchild who speaks in text?

[carney2]

Would love to but since posters are here,here us where we must talk. Confuzzling tho,why it irks you so. As far as I know, no one is compelled to slog thru any thread. Like the doc says if it hurts when you do that,dont do that :)

It's like a train wreck: you don't want to watch, but you can't tear yourself away. It's a B or C grade novel where you know the ending, but you just have to read on - in this case to watch how Squawkers convince each other that it will be yet another 9-2 year with trophies for everyone.

[RichH2]

:) Perhaps so but then your issue is with yourself not us.

[DFW HOYA]

Bucknell and Georgetown, of course, don't discuss football anywhere.

Georgetown just added another QB. Hopefully, he won't get a better offer before May 1.

https://twitter.com/mwipper1/status/449337677460955136

[carney2]

:) Perhaps so but then your issue is with yourself not us.

Getting completely off track (which never happens in a Patriot League thread, so I apologize), I am inquiring about the use of the word "yourself" in your comment. This usage is becoming more and more common and I've always heard that acceptance makes it correct. Not questioning that. I just don't think that it ever would have been used in our youth, Rich. The comment would have gone "the issue is with you and not us." Just wondering if any of our over-educated grammarians can comment on this.

[RichH2]

:) Correct. Seems I have been corrupted by twitter :)

[Lehigh Football Nation]

This does actually exist, FYI:

http://www.lehighsportsforum.com/

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I say again, you Squawkers need your own sports board. I know you have one, but it obviously isn't working. For Colgate, Fordham, Holy Cross and Lafayette these "conversations" are held at home, not in a national forum. Bucknell and Georgetown, of course, don't discuss football anywhere. So, please, dear brownshirts, go behind the barn if you are determined to play with yourselves.

It's a lot easier to read various threads on here to gain info than it is to visit every school's message board.

[carney2]

It's a lot easier to read various threads on here to gain info than it is to visit every school's message board.

Including your own apparently.

If this were a business, LFN, the Board of Directors would be demanding to know why your customers are going elsewhere.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Including your own apparently.

If this were a business, LFN, the Board of Directors would be demanding to know why your customers are going elsewhere.

I check Temple's board religiously :p....

This is a Lehigh thread so it seems reasonable to post Hawk related questions/comments. Why don't you ask the W&M people why there's three Tribe threads on the front page?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I check Temple's board religiously :p....

This is a Lehigh thread so it seems reasonable to post Hawk related questions/comments. Why don't you ask the W&M people why there's three Tribe threads on the front page?

That's an easy one. They're getting ready for the Tribe's move to the Patriot League. Kind of like kicking the tires.

[ngineer]

Getting completely off track (which never happens in a Patriot League thread, so I apologize), I am inquiring about the use of the word "yourself" in your comment. This usage is becoming more and more common and I've always heard that acceptance makes it correct. Not questioning that. I just don't think that it ever would have been used in our youth, Rich. The comment would have gone "the issue is with you and not us." Just wondering if any of our over-educated grammarians can comment on this.

You are correct. It started about a decade ago with the self-aggrandizement on TV by the star athletes always speaking of themselves in the third-person and self possessive, i.e. always referring to themselves as "myself" instead of "me." Many times I have heard something like, "It was given to myself" rather than "It was given to me." Don't know who started it , but it grates on me and my English major wife when ever she hears it and silently curses about "dumb jocks".

[carney2]

This is a Lehigh thread so it seems reasonable to post Hawk related questions/comments.

This thread is about the Patsy Ratings for the Dung's current recruiting class. That's it. Discussions of which assistant coaches wear boxers, which wear briefs, and which wear nothing at all don't belong here.

[RichH2]

Seems carney has decided that he s/b the arbiter of what can and cannot be posted on AGS. Guess we should all send proposed thoughts to him first for permission to post. Carney , your perogative to mock us ,but not to censor us.

[heath]

This thread is about the Patsy Ratings for the Dung's current recruiting class. That's it. Discussions of which assistant coaches wear boxers, which wear briefs, and which wear nothing at all don't belong here.
Very true Carney, that crap should be discussed on the Spotted Pussies at New Hampshire threadxeyebrowx You win 1 game and all the sudden you become Data Commissioner...........very nicexconfusedx

[carney2]

Seems carney has decided that he s/b the arbiter of what can and cannot be posted on AGS. Guess we should all send proposed thoughts to him first for permission to post. Carney , your perogative to mock us ,but not to censor us.

Merely prepping for my days as emperor.

[RichH2]

Merely prepping for my days as emperor.

:) Well OK then.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Well, I'm going to do it again. With the Brown and White game next weekend, how's the team looking? Strengths? Weaknesses?

[RichH2]

Abunch of us are going, so I'll post what I see. So far Andy not real happy with execution. Not surprising given all the new staff and players.

[citdog]

Well, I'm going to do it again. With the Brown and White game next weekend, how's the team looking?



le high looks a little bigger and stronger up front this year




http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-3Wxb_urpA8g/URZxfVpwQqI/AAAAAAAAN8c/VCtaPu--QEc/s1600/PeeWee+(1).jpg

[heath]

[QUOTE=citdog;2103208]le high looks a little bigger and stronger up front this year
That would be funny if you could photo shop, otherwise very lame.xeyebrowx

[RichH2]

No new thread. Scrimmage. Standouts Yosha is the real deal,fast with shiftiness and strength.Very impressive. Brown and Kee likewose were quite good. FB and RB are better overallthan I anticipated Nick look good on short and mid level throws crispand accurate. Long ones were balloons and not close. The shoulder tendinitis clearly got his arm strength.WRs Gaul impressed. Way too many drops. On D 2ndary mich better scheme. Press coverage by CBs very good.In dire need of a long snapper.Laub out for Spring butnone of the ones used today were any good.OLabit inconsistent but just needs more reps. Duffy and James looked good.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

No new thread. Scrimmage. Standouts Yosha is the real deal,fast with shiftiness and strength.Very impressive. Brown and Kee likewose were quite good. FB and RB are better overallthan I anticipated Nick look good on short and mid level throws crispand accurate. Long ones were balloons and not close. The shoulder tendinitis clearly got his arm strength.WRs Gaul impressed. Way too many drops. On D 2ndary mich better scheme. Press coverage by CBs very good.In dire need of a long snapper.Laub out for Spring butnone of the ones used today were any good.OLabit inconsistent but just needs more reps. Duffy and James looked good.

About what one would expect...

How did the the DL look? Overall team speed?

[RichH2]

Gyles and Newton looked good. Both lines inconsistent. DL had very good pass rush. A bunch of sakes. Hard to tell whether its D or OLletting themin. Speed,yes.Leaks,Lawson,Yosha,Kee Knott stoodout but Nick quick feet and moves well in pocket. Needs work on mechnics tho.Throws off back foot too much. Owens markedly quicker Ran a couple of Rackley's offside pull plays. Got to the hole on time andopened it. Crawford showedsome whells on flares.
Entire team is a work in progress. We normally have 30-40guys on campus over the summer thoseseeking PT best be there.

[van]

Lot of guys out with injuries, so hard to get a read on strength of team. Saw some nice stuff from Yosha and Gaul. Secondary coverage seemed pretty tight, but they know the O very well so hard to take much from that either. Lot of questions going into fall.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

When it comes to spring games it's about the little things, lining up right, communicating, right routes, switches, individual plays etc.

There's no reason to believe there's not a lot of talent. It's putting it all together....

The offense will have some growing pains but there's potential. The OL will lead the way. If Yosha is the real deal that takes A LOT of pressure off of Shaf. I really like Knott and the TE's. I'm not sure if Parris is a true #1.

I like the more aggressive style D. Lehigh's best defenses play quick and create turnovers. They don' t "need" size if there's quality depth. Bott has a history of nasty D's at Lehigh.

[ngineer]

the only thing that really stood out was the need to have a long snapper. #93 of the defense seemed to be most consistent. Not sure why they kept trying Gaul as a long snapper. Very poor. I thought Pandy's FGs were crisp and excellent leg. New punter Devlin looks like he should be okay in terms of leg strength and decent yardage. One thing that needs to be worked on will be placement within the 20 which Divers was so good at. Very impressed with our RBs. Very nice depth. The QBs are huge question marks at this point. August will be very interesting on the competition there. AJ actually had some very nice throws. Shaf finally seemed to get more accurate as the scrimmage went on. Shoulder issues could be problematic down the road. Not having full contact makes much evaluation difficult.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

My recap of the spring game:

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2014/04/brown-defense-starts-strong-but-white.html

Lots to like, but such a young team and a new coaching staff. It's not hard to get caught up, though, in the excitement and potential that this group could bring.

The biggest ? still remains under center. Shaf looked great on short throws but didn't establish himself as so far ahead of the competition that he's "the man". August will see a huge battle with the QBs, which is gonna be interesting.

[DFW HOYA]

Hope springs eternal, but it's still Fordham's to lose.

1. Fordham 5-1
2. Winner of Leh/Laf game 4-2
3. Loser of Leh/Laf game 4-2
4. Holy Cross 3-3
5. Bucknell 3-3
6. Colgate 2-4
7. Georgetown 0-6

[RichH2]

Reasonable DFW , but really can flip around 2-4 any way and it would still be reasonable :)