Can the A-10 not only get 4 teams in the playoffs, but 5....

[DB_Atlantic10]

Check this Scenario:

North:
Maine wins out and finish 9-2, with 8 Div-I wins while winning the the A-10North
UMass only losses to Maine and finishes 9-2, 9 Div-I wins, A-10 north 2nd due to head to head
UNH finished 8-3, 8 Div-I wins, including 1 Div-1A win, 3rd A-10 north

South:
JMU finished 10-1, 9 Div-1 wins, overal A-10 champion
Richmond with 2 losses and finishes 9-2, 9 Div-I wins including 1 Div-1A win, 2nd A-10 south..

Now the question is, will the Committee let five teams from one conference get in? Who losses out in this scenario for they are all impressive and possible?

Also note that as of today, each team is top 15 in the GPI the largest indicator for play-off selections....

DB

[UNH_ORACLE]

why not wait until this is actually a debate? What's with all the what if debating on this forum????

[DB_Atlantic10]

xlolx
why not wait until this is actually a debate? What's with all the what if debating on this forum????

With a name like the ORACLE, I figured this would be right up your alley..... LOL

[UNH_ORACLE]

xlolx

With a name like the ORACLE, I figured this would be right up your alley..... LOL


I can only see UNH's future...

[rcny46]

Check this Scenario:

North:
Maine wins out and finish 9-2, with 8 Div-I wins while winning the the A-10North
UMass only losses to Maine and finishes 9-2, 9 Div-I wins, A-10 north 2nd due to head to head
UNH finished 8-3, 8 Div-I wins, including 1 Div-1A win, 3rd A-10 north

South:
JMU finished 10-1, 9 Div-1 wins, overal A-10 champion
Richmond with 2 losses and finishes 9-2, 9 Div-I wins including 1 Div-1A win, 2nd A-10 south..

Now the question is, will the Committee let five teams from one conference get in? Who losses out in this scenario for they are all impressive and possible?

Also note that as of today, each team is top 15 in the GPI the largest indicator for play-off selections....

DB


I think UNH would be on the sidelines if your scenario pans out.I just don't see five teams going from any conference.

[th0m]

I agree. Even though other conferences are down this year, both the Gateway and the A-10 seem to fight for the most teams in, and 5 out of 8 at-large leaves 3 teams for the Gateway, Socon and Big Sky, (the 3 most likely conferences with multiple teams getting in) as well as Cal Poly.

[*****]

why not wait until this is actually a debate? What's with all the what if debating on this forum????We're here to type/talk...

[griz37]

Do you guys really think the top 2 most visible players in I-AA (Santos & Ball) would left out of the field, even if their team finishes 8-3? The committee is human & this COULD come into play.

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

I agree...

If UNH looses to both Maine and Umass as stated they will be out.

I don't belive that will happen.

[Mr. C]

Do you guys really think the top 2 most visible players in I-AA (Santos & Ball) would left out of the field, even if their team finishes 8-3? The committee is human & this COULD come into play.
Does the name Brian Westbrook ring a bell? There was one year where four A-10 teams tied for the league title, Villanova being one of them. Villanova had a loss to a D-II (Lock Haven, if I remember right) and was left out of the field, while William & Mary, Maine and I think Delaware made it in the field. The committee had a hard enough time agreeing to put four teams from a conference in. It's not going to put five in.

[blur2005]

I already asked this question one of the many playoff prediction threads but I guess it was probably buried pretty deep in there. I'd say there's almost no chance of it happening but you never know...to do it, other teams with playoff aspirations in other conference would have to fold. Since I don't see that happening, looks like four is the best we can do. Except the A-10 can definitely get four teams in, like in 2004, so that'd be sweet.

[JMUfan2008]

Does the name Brian Westbrook ring a bell? There was one year where four A-10 teams tied for the league title, Villanova being one of them. Villanova had a loss to a D-II (Lock Haven, if I remember right) and was left out of the field, while William & Mary, Maine and I think Delaware made it in the field. The committee had a hard enough time agreeing to put four teams from a conference in. It's not going to put five in.

If it was Lock Haven they deserved to be out...even with someone like Westbrook...

[blukeys]

Does the name Brian Westbrook ring a bell? There was one year where four A-10 teams tied for the league title, Villanova being one of them. Villanova had a loss to a D-II (Lock Haven, if I remember right) and was left out of the field, while William & Mary, Maine and I think Delaware made it in the field. The committee had a hard enough time agreeing to put four teams from a conference in. It's not going to put five in.


Let's see 4 teams represent 33% of the conference and folks have an objection. But in 2003 the Gateway had 4 teams in the playoffs which was 50% of the conference and no one raised an eyebrow despite the fact that none of these teams advanced Past the 2nd round. :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

By the 2003 Gateway Standard the A-10 is entitled to 6 teams with none of the East Coast bias whining that comes with the territory.

After all there were no complaints about the Mid West Bias in 2003 when the Gateway got 50% of their conference in the playoffs. Of course none of these teams advanced past the second round. :nod: :nod:

:nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod:

[*****]

less than half of the A-10 (five teams) is not unreasonable to be selected

[FlyYtown]

I still think you will see in the end the Gateway will have the most teams.. And then we will show you why we are the best!

[blukeys]

less than half of the A-10 (five teams) is not unreasonable to be selected


Agreed but it is way to soon to tell!!!!

Could be 5 or 3 the next month will tell us.

[JMUfan2008]

Agreed but it is way to soon to tell!!!!

Could be 5 or 3 the next month will tell us.

Like we always say...it is the A10, anything could happen. It could play out like this or like you said we could only get 3 because of some crazy upsets...

[*****]

Like we always say...it is the A10, anything could happen. It could play out like this or like you said we could only get 3 because of some crazy upsets...When you have nearly 10% of I-AA in your conference, yeah... you should be looking for a title every year... why has this not been the case?

[umassfan]

I still think you will see in the end the Gateway will have the most teams.. And then we will show you why we are the best!
After YSU gives UNI their third loss and they pick up a 4th later in the season, that will give the Gateway only 3 teams in the playoffs this year. :D

[89Hen]

less than half of the A-10 (five teams) is not unreasonable to be selected
Yes it is. :twocents:

[dbackjon]

Yes, Ralph it is unreasonable - and brings up one of my pet peeves about larger conferences - not every team plays each other. Much easier to have multiple good record teams in a larger conference when the teams all don't play each other every year. This year, UMass avoids playing BOTH Richmond, and JMU. With a full conference schedule, two of those teams would have another loss. So IMHO, it is unfair to give the A-10 4 bids, let alone 5.

Personally, that would be one of my qualifications for an auto-bid: To win the league AQ, you would have to play EVERY team in your conference every year.....

[AppGuy04]

Depends how they end the season, whoever struggles down the stretch gets left out. I don't think they would take 5

[89Hen]

So IMHO, it is unfair to give the A-10 4 bids, let alone 5.

Personally, that would be one of my qualifications for an auto-bid: To win the league AQ, you would have to play EVERY team in your conference every year.....
Even though the A10 went 4-0 in the first round with their four bids in 2004? (and 6-1 against non-A10 teams for the entire playoffs)

I agree that it may be easier to have more teams with a better record since they don't have to play each other, but I don't agree with your assessment of the autobid. It's actually an interesting situation though. In all honesty, the A10 doesn't need an auto-bid. Their #1 and #2 teams are always going to get in. But if you look back over the years it would appear that the Big Sky's auto is more of a question mark. Montana State made the playoffs in two consecutive years in which they would not have received an at-large bid. Both years they lost in the first round and were 13-12 against DI competition (including two wins over St. Mary's). IMO they were clearly not a playoff caliber team.

[PantherRob82]

no way do they get 5.

[HensRock]

Yes, Ralph it is unreasonable - and brings up one of my pet peeves about larger conferences - not every team plays each other. Much easier to have multiple good record teams in a larger conference when the teams all don't play each other every year. This year, UMass avoids playing BOTH Richmond, and JMU. With a full conference schedule, two of those teams would have another loss. So IMHO, it is unfair to give the A-10 4 bids, let alone 5.

Personally, that would be one of my qualifications for an auto-bid: To win the league AQ, you would have to play EVERY team in your conference every year.....


If you look at it this way...
The A10 is 2 conferences - North and South, each with 6 teams. They all play each other within their conference. Is it then unreasonable to have one 6-team conference place 3 in the playoffs and another to place 2?

[89Hen]

If you look at it this way...
The A10 is 2 conferences - North and South, each with 6 teams.
You know, you're right. I think the A10 North and South should both apply for autobids. :nod: :smiley_wi

[HensRock]

When you have nearly 10% of I-AA in your conference, yeah... you should be looking for a title every year... why has this not been the case?

It HAS been the case. The A10 LOOKS FOR a title every year.

Since we have nearly 10% of I-AA in our conference, it is therefore reasonable to expect to actually OBTAIN a title 1 out of every 10 years. This has also been the case. (I-AA => 27 years)

[OL FU]

Right now I am just worried about the SoCon getting two in :eek:

[HensRock]

no way do they get 5.

If the Gateway can send half of their conference, why can't the A10 send just 42% of it's?

[grizbeer]

The only way I see 2 teams from the BSC this year is if MSU wins out and get the auto bid.

If Montana wins out I think it is possible for the A-10 to get 5 teams, because that means another loss for Cal Poly, plus I would be surprised if they beat both San Diego State and NDSU. The Southern looks like a 2 team conference this year, and I don't see the Southland getting an at-large, so that leaves 7 at-large available for the A-10, gateway, and other conferences.

Gateway teams will start to drop after they play each other and rack-up losses - maybe they get 3 at-large teams for 4 total, leaving 4 at-large for the A-10, San Diego, CCU, OVC, and maybe a couple other long shots. Wouldn't surprise me a bit to see the A-10 get 5 in this year.

[BillLuc1982]

If the Gateway can send half of their conference, why can't the A10 send just 42% of it's?

Gateway teams play everybody, not just half. The A10 would do that, but there are 12 teams, and most I-AA teams play 11 games so every A10 team would have no non-conference games. That's why the A10 is divided into regions. It would be nice if the A10 had a North-South championship for the automatic bid, but time constraints do not permit that because of the I-AA playoffs system.

Yes, the A10 is tougher than a lot of I-AA conferences such as the MEAC, Patriot, and Southland. Now if 50% (or even 37.5%) of the Gateway got in if there were a Gateway East and Gateway West and most of those teams played easy non-conference schedules, then that wouldn't be right.

For instance, I'd like to see UMass play New Hampshire, Richmond, Delaware, and Maine every year. That's what Gateway teams face. Yes, Gateway teams play Missouri State and Indiana State, but they also play Illinois State, Northern Iowa (in the UNIDome half the time), Southern Illinois, Western Illinois (they're better than most think), Western Kentucky, and Youngstown State.

[shakdaddy3]

After all there were no complaints about the Mid West Bias in 2003 when the Gateway got 50% of their conference in the playoffs. Of course none of these teams advanced past the second round.


you know why your arguement is flawed as are the other ones dealing with PAST gateway teams making the playoffs without winning too much? those are PAST team, not THIS YEARS teams...

with that said, there's a lot of college football to be played... and depending how things wond up, i can see the A-10 getting 5 teams in... i don't think it will happen, but it can...

[dbackjon]

If you look at it this way...
The A10 is 2 conferences - North and South, each with 6 teams. They all play each other within their conference. Is it then unreasonable to have one 6-team conference place 3 in the playoffs and another to place 2?

Yes, it would be. I also think that you should have at least 7 teams to qualify for an auto-bid ;)

No one is disputing that the top A-10 team will get in regardless of auto-bid status, or that the A-10 deserves multiple teams. And on further reflection in the shower this morning, it was hasty to say that a conference that doesn't require a team to play all other teams doesn't deserve an auto-bid - the conference can send WHOMEVER it wants, as long as it meets the criteria for an autobid conference.

The issue here is whether a conference where members duck each other deserves so many bids - I say no.

Then, if you leave some one out, whom? New Hampshire is the only team that plays UMass, Richmond, JMU and Maine. All of the other teams only play TWO of the other four contenders. JMU and Richmond do not have to play UMass OR Maine.

[shakdaddy3]

For instance, I'd like to see UMass play New Hampshire, Richmond, Delaware, and Maine every year. That's what Gateway teams face. Yes, Gateway teams play Missouri State and Indiana State, but they also play Illinois State, Northern Iowa (in the UNIDome half the time), Southern Illinois, Western Illinois (they're better than most think), and Youngstown State.
don't forget Westerk Kentucky either...

[89Hen]

Gateway teams will start to drop after they play each other and rack-up losses - maybe they get 3 at-large teams for 4 total, leaving 4 at-large for the A-10, San Diego, CCU, OVC, and maybe a couple other long shots. Wouldn't surprise me a bit to see the A-10 get 5 in this year.
At-large best bets so far IMO:

Southern - 1
Gateway - 2
A10 - 3

The A10 has four teams at 5-1 and interestingly UMass doesn't play two of them and UNH already played two of them. There are only two games left between the 5-1 teams UR/JMU and UNH/UMass. It's conceivable that you could have two 10-1 teams and two 9-2 teams. It may not be likely given the history of the A10 beating each other up, but IF that were the case, there is no way the A10 doesn't get 3 at-large.

The Southland, Patriot and OVC all seem like longshots to get any at-large consideration IMO. The interesting one in my book is Delaware State. They have a decent shot at going 9-2 and may benefit from the above three conferences not having good years.

[dbackjon]

You know, you're right. I think the A10 North and South should both apply for autobids. :nod: :smiley_wi

They will - except it will be as the CAA and America East......:smiley_wi

[89Hen]

For instance, I'd like to see UMass play New Hampshire, Richmond, Delaware, and Maine every year. That's what Gateway teams face. Yes, Gateway teams play Missouri State and Indiana State, but they also play Illinois State, Northern Iowa (in the UNIDome half the time), Southern Illinois, Western Illinois (they're better than most think), and Youngstown State.
Impossible to say who will be good from year to year. Illinois State hasn't been a playoff team since 1999. SIU was horrible before 2003. They are all pretty good this year, but WIU is average at best (after their 3-1 start and being ranked, I said they may only win two more games the rest of the year).

FWIW, in your example, UMass does play UNH and Maine every year and this year I'd rather play Delaware than Towson or Villanova. :smiley_wi

[89Hen]

They will - except it will be as the CAA and America East......:smiley_wi
Yup, but they will be bigger than 6 teams a piece.

[BillLuc1982]

don't forget Westerk Kentucky either...

Just added them. Unless an A-10 team has a tough nonconference schedule, I could not see that team with only one tough A-10 game and four Indiana State like games making the playoffs.

[dbackjon]

Yup, but they will be bigger than 6 teams a piece.

Quite right - I don't know if the split will occur in the next few years, but definately when ODU comes aboard. 13 is WAY to big a conference. Add SBU, Albany, CCSU into the mix, and you have 16 teams.

[HensRock]

Gateway teams play everybody, not just half. The A10 would do that, but there are 12 teams, and most I-AA teams play 11 games so every A10 team would have no non-conference games. That's why the A10 is divided into regions. It would be nice if the A10 had a North-South championship for the automatic bid, but time constraints do not permit that because of the I-AA playoffs system.

Yes, the A10 is tougher than a lot of I-AA conferences such as the MEAC, Patriot, and Southland. Now if 50% (or even 37.5%) of the Gateway got in if there were a Gateway East and Gateway West and most of those teams played easy non-conference schedules, then that wouldn't be right.

For instance, I'd like to see UMass play New Hampshire, Richmond, Delaware, and Maine every year. That's what Gateway teams face. Yes, Gateway teams play Missouri State and Indiana State, but they also play Illinois State, Northern Iowa (in the UNIDome half the time), Southern Illinois, Western Illinois (they're better than most think), and Youngstown State.

UMass does play UNH and Maine every year. They play UD and Richmond 2 years out of 4 on a rotating basis. Think of the A10 as two conferences that could EACH qualify for an autobid and be happy they only get 1!

When you think of it that way, your demand seems unreasonable - it's like requiring UMass to play Montana every year. Another way to look at it is that each A-10 team has to play all the other members in their (sub)conference, but are then required to play 3 OOC games from another really tough conference and then have 3 more OOC that they can use as they wish. It's not like the teams can diecide who they are going to "dodge" - as you put it - each year.

[89Hen]

four Indiana State like games making the playoffs.
There aren't four Indiana States in the A10. I'm not sure there's even one. 23 losses in a row? :confused: : smh :

[BillLuc1982]

UMass does play UNH and Maine every year. They play UD and Richmond 2 years out of 4 on a rotating basis. Think of the A10 as two conferences that could EACH qualify for an autobid and be happy they only get 1!

When you think of it that way, your demand seems unreasonable - it's like requiring UMass to play Montana every year. Another way to look at it is that each A-10 team has to play all the other members in their (sub)conference, but are then required to play 3 OOC games from another really tough conference and then have 3 more OOC that they can use as they wish. It's not like the teams can diecide who they are going to "dodge" - as you put it - each year.

With the amount of teams the A10 has, the A10 should get 2-4 bids each year (depending on nonconference game results). Five, though, is way too many.

And the teams can't decide who to dodge, but in most cases, they'll dodge some bullets. The Gateway dodges no bullets. Sometimes you have to play teams back-to-back-to-back. YSU faces Northern Iowa, Illinois State (on the road), and Southern Illinois without a bye week or an easy game. Their bye week has been the last week of the season since 2002. Imagine that kind of schedule!

[BillLuc1982]

There aren't four Indiana States in the A10. I'm not sure there's even one. 23 losses in a row? :confused: : smh :

Indiana State plays Gateway football; that's why. And a lot of their games are I-A money games! I'm sure if Northeastern had INSU's schedule, they may be in the same scenario. And how about Rhode Island and W&M? I'd love to see them in the Gateway!

[89Hen]

Sometimes you have to play teams back-to-back-to-back. YSU faces Northern Iowa, Illinois State (on the road), and Southern Illinois without a bye week or an easy game. Their bye week has been the last week of the season since 2002. Imagine that kind of schedule!
I dunno. Last time an A10 had to play teams like SIU and UNI back-to-back it was fairly one sided. They were actually the easiest games of the year except for the DII. :smiley_wi

http://www2.delawareonline.com/newsjournal/sports/2003/11/images/112903ud01.jpg

http://www2.delawareonline.com/newsjournal/sports/2003/12/images/120603ud03.jpg

[89Hen]

Indiana State plays Gateway football; that's why. And a lot of their games are I-A money games! I'm sure if Northeastern had INSU's schedule, they may be in the same scenario. And how about Rhode Island and W&M? I'd love to see them in the Gateway!
C'mon. Murray State, Eastern Illinois, St. Francis (IN)... they're losing to everyone. As for W&M... you don't know much about I-AA.

[BillLuc1982]

C'mon. Murray State, Eastern Illinois, St. Francis (IN)... they're losing to everyone. As for W&M... you don't know much about I-AA.

I'd still love to see W&M in the Gateway! And as for Eastern Illinois, it seems like you don't know much about I-AA!

[dbackjon]

Check this Scenario:

North:
Maine wins out and finish 9-2, with 8 Div-I wins while winning the the A-10North
UMass only losses to Maine and finishes 9-2, 9 Div-I wins, A-10 north 2nd due to head to head
UNH finished 8-3, 8 Div-I wins, including 1 Div-1A win, 3rd A-10 north

South:
JMU finished 10-1, 9 Div-1 wins, overal A-10 champion
Richmond with 2 losses and finishes 9-2, 9 Div-I wins including 1 Div-1A win, 2nd A-10 south..

Now the question is, will the Committee let five teams from one conference get in? Who losses out in this scenario for they are all impressive and possible?





And to answer your original question - in the unlikely event this scenario occurs, you leave out Richmond....

[B&G]

I don't think it is a matter of whether the A-10 has five teams who are deserving. They certainly do. But you have to look at other factors. If the rest of the field were a little bit weaker this year it would be possible. However if the committee sees two teams they feel are equal, would they take the team that finished 5th in the A-10 or a team that finished 3rd in some other conference?

Personally, I feel that if a team wants to get into the playoffs they need to do better than 5th in their own conference.

[GannonFan]

Indiana State plays Gateway football; that's why. And a lot of their games are I-A money games! I'm sure if Northeastern had INSU's schedule, they may be in the same scenario. And how about Rhode Island and W&M? I'd love to see them in the Gateway!

Did you see Northeastern's schedule this year? Are you honestly going to say that playing at Va Tech, at Holy Cross, at North Dakota St, at JMU, at Richmond, home against UD, home against UNH, home against UMass, and at Maine as your first 9 games isn't a hard schedule?

And as for W&M, weren't they in the national semifinals just two years ago (2004) and had the Payton Award winner to boot? Come on, you have to try better than this.

[GannonFan]

I don't think it is a matter of whether the A-10 has five teams who are deserving. They certainly do. But you have to look at other factors. If the rest of the field were a little bit weaker this year it would be possible. However if the committee sees two teams they feel are equal, would they take the team that finished 5th in the A-10 or a team that finished 3rd in some other conference?

Personally, I feel that if a team wants to get into the playoffs they need to do better than 5th in their own conference.

How do you judge a team that finishes 3rd in a 6 team conference then? Where do you draw the line? The Gateway got 4 in before (50% of the conference), so is 50% the line?

[89Hen]

I'd still love to see W&M in the Gateway! And as for Eastern Illinois, it seems like you don't know much about I-AA!
I listed all the non I-A's that Indiana State has lost to during this streak. :rolleyes: But if you'd like to challenge me on that one anyway...

Eastern Illinois 3-10 playoff record, last win... 1989. Winless in last 5 against I-AA's OOC not named Indiana State. :eyebrow:

BTW, W&M is 4-7 in the playoffs with their last wins coming in 2004.

[89Hen]

And to answer your original question - in the unlikely event this scenario occurs, you leave out Richmond....
You leave out a 9-2 team with a I-A shutout win and a playoff win last year and their only two losses being to the nearly unanimous #1 and the team that beat the nearly unanimous #1? :confused:

[BillLuc1982]

I listed all the non I-A's that Indiana State has lost to during this streak. :rolleyes: But if you'd like to challenge me on that one anyway...

Eastern Illinois 3-10 playoff record, last win... 1989. Winless in last 5 against I-AA's OOC not named Indiana State. :eyebrow:

BTW, W&M is 4-7 in the playoffs with their last wins coming in 2004.

That is not overly impressive either!

[B&G]

How do you judge a team that finishes 3rd in a 6 team conference then? Where do you draw the line? The Gateway got 4 in before (50% of the conference), so is 50% the line?

That is more of a rhetorical question that the committee would have to decide on a case-by-case scenario. My opinion is that if you want to make the playoffs, then you need to do better than 5th in your conference. I wouldnt even be able to see a school's complaint if they had a nice resume. If you were that good you wouldn't be in 5th place right now. There are too few at-large bids for that. Just my :twocents:

[89Hen]

That is not overly impressive either!
Well, it is when you were trying to compare W&M to Indiana State. xlolx

Bill, you have to know that I am the crowned King of Useless Stats. Getting into an stupid arguement with me (stupid to begin with) isn't wise. :smiley_wi

BTW, nice to have another DC area poster on board. :thumbsup:

[BillLuc1982]

Well, it is when you were trying to compare W&M to Indiana State. xlolx

Bill, you have to know that I am the crowned King of Useless Stats. Getting into an stupid arguement with me (stupid to begin with) isn't wise. :smiley_wi

BTW, nice to have another DC area poster on board. :thumbsup:

Whereabouts in Maryland? I'm in NoVa (bored to death at work so I'm working up to your ranks)

[dbackjon]

You leave out a 9-2 team with a I-A shutout win and a playoff win last year and their only two losses being to the nearly unanimous #1 and the team that beat the nearly unanimous #1? :confused:
Sure.

No easy answer in that scenario. Came down to UNH or UR, and UNH wins that head-to-head battle.

UR doesn't play UMass or Maine, and that has to be taken into account.

[89Hen]

Came down to UNH or UR
Not sure about that. It would come down to UR or Delaware State or Jacksonville State or Monmouth.... If you look at UR on their own, it would be awfully tough to leave out a 9-2 team with a I-A win and a playoff win last year in favor of one of those other teams. :twocents:

[dbackjon]

Not sure about that. It would come down to UR or Delaware State or Jacksonville State or Monmouth.... If you look at UR on their own, it would be awfully tough to leave out a 9-2 team with a I-A win and a playoff win last year in favor of one of those other teams. :twocents:

You may be right. But one thing - What a team did last year, the year before, etc should have ABSOLUTELY NO bearing on whether or not they are picked/seeded etc. this year. This year is this year. Players/teams are not the exact same.

[DTSpider]

If Richmond finishes 9-2 they will be ranked in the top 10. Both losses will be to top 10 teams (one on the road). 1A shutout win. Conference rated highly by Saragin.

If that doesn't deserve a playoff berth than I'm at a loss as to what does deserve a playoff berth? How many times has a 9-2 A10 team been left at home? What about 9-2 Big Sky, SoCon or Gateway teams?

[GannonFan]

I agree - there's just no logical way to leave out a 9-2 Richmond team if it ends up that way. That's 9 DI wins and the only losses beaing to two top 10 teams. How do you pick another team over that?

[jmuroller]

Indiana State plays Gateway football; that's why. And a lot of their games are I-A money games! I'm sure if Northeastern had INSU's schedule, they may be in the same scenario. And how about Rhode Island and W&M? I'd love to see them in the Gateway!


Do you realize how stupid this sounds? Every single team in the A10 has been ranked in the Top 25 at some point in the last 6 years. Almost all of them have gone to the playoffs also. Someone needs to freshen up on their 1AA knowledge.

[bandl]

I agree - there's just no logical way to leave out a 9-2 Richmond team if it ends up that way. That's 9 DI wins and the only losses beaing to two top 10 teams. How do you pick another team over that?

What if that second loss wasn't to JMU but to Villanova or Mary & Bill? I guess the argument could still be made that they also beat a top 10 team (assuming JMU is still in the top 10 at that time). There's just no way to tell at this point...maybe in another 2 or 3 games.

[BillLuc1982]

Do you realize how stupid this sounds? Every single team in the A10 has been ranked in the Top 25 at some point in the last 6 years. Almost all of them have gone to the playoffs also. Someone needs to freshen up on their 1AA knowledge.

That's because a bunch of wins over weak A-10 teams help with ranking. Indiana State plays Gateway Teams year in and year out. Maybe if Indiana State played in another conference, they'd be slightly better. Not a powerhouse, but a .350 team :smiley_wi

[BillLuc1982]

Do you realize how stupid this sounds? Every single team in the A10 has been ranked in the Top 25 at some point in the last 6 years. Almost all of them have gone to the playoffs also. Someone needs to freshen up on their 1AA knowledge.

Also, I was at Safeway a couple weeks ago and started talking with a girl around my age (24) who had a JMU shirt on. I introduced myself and told her about how good JMU's football program is. She didn't even realize it! It's pretty sad when you go there and you don't know about your own school's football program : smh :

[GannonFan]

Also, I was at Safeway a couple weeks ago and started talking with a girl around my age (24) who had a JMU shirt on. I introduced myself and told her about how good JMU's football program is. She didn't even realize it! It's pretty sad when you go there and you don't know about your own school's football program : smh :

You've just described something that could be the case for every I-AA school out there, not to mention pretty much every school in America. Although the idea seems repelling to us, there are people out there that don't like football, even college students. Live and let live man. :hurray:

[PantherRob82]

This thread has turned into an incredibly boring pissing match. :nod:

[umassfan]

All I got to say is the playoffs will prove who the best conference is. Gateway teams have a habit of not showing up when it counts though.

[GannonFan]

All I got to say is the playoffs will prove who the best conference is. Gateway teams have a habit of not showing up when it counts though.

Wow, and that's from a guy who backs a UMass team that hasn't won a playoff game in 6 years and lost the one they should've won because they were spending too much time whining about it to prepare properly.

[Black Saturday]

I don't think it is a matter of whether the A-10 has five teams who are deserving. They certainly do. But you have to look at other factors. If the rest of the field were a little bit weaker this year it would be possible. However if the committee sees two teams they feel are equal, would they take the team that finished 5th in the A-10 or a team that finished 3rd in some other conference?

Personally, I feel that if a team wants to get into the playoffs they need to do better than 5th in their own conference.

This is just one of those years with no margin for error.

[umassfan]

Wow, and that's from a guy who backs a UMass team that hasn't won a playoff game in 6 years and lost the one they should've won because they were spending too much time whining about it to prepare properly.
Why should we have won it? Correct me if im wrong but wasnt that game on the road? Wasnt Colgate seeded? Alright then!

[BillLuc1982]

All I got to say is the playoffs will prove who the best conference is. Gateway teams have a habit of not showing up when it counts though.

YSU won the national championship in 1997 and didn't even win the Gateway. WKU won it all in 2002.

[GannonFan]

Why should we have won it? Correct me if im wrong but wasnt that game on the road? Wasnt Colgate seeded? Alright then!

Oh, now you guys were hopeless underdogs???? Come on, that's a Colgate team that got stomped 40-0 by a team that UMass went to OT with not too many weeks before that. UMass didn't come to play that day and that had a lot more to do with the loss than anything else. Forget the seeds - Hampton was seeded last year too but that didn't mean anything. You underacheived that year, plain and simple.

[umassfan]

YSU won the national championship in 1997 and didn't even win the Gateway. WKU won it all in 2002.
UMass did the same in 98. We were a very low seed and had just 1 home game.

[LacesOut]

Five??? Hmmm, I highly highly doubt that. The 5th best team in a conference does not deserve a playoff bid, imo. And I'll also assume that the 5th team will have 3 losses, and there will be another team out there that is 8-3 or 9-2 and is also deserving of a bid. I-AA is not that down this season where the committee would have to take 5 teams from one conference.

But what do I know? I just provide avatars for you all to lovingly view. lol

[Maroon&White]

Oh, now you guys were hopeless underdogs???? Come on, that's a Colgate team that got stomped 40-0 by a team that UMass went to OT with not too many weeks before that. UMass didn't come to play that day and that had a lot more to do with the loss than anything else. Forget the seeds - Hampton was seeded last year too but that didn't mean anything. You underacheived that year, plain and simple.

Please stop with your obsession of UMass!!

[BillLuc1982]

you can actually make it to UD faster than any of those

Yes, either UD or JMU would be the easiest drives (66 to 81 is a nice drive). Richmond isn't too bad either. If I went to UD, I'd Bay Bridge it or take US 1 (I-95 is $10 in tolls!!!). I may go to the UD-JMU game at JMU Nov. 4 and/or one of the last 2 UD home games in November. This weekend the folks are in town, and next weekend I'm going back to Youngstown for family reasons.

[GannonFan]

Please stop with your obsession of UMass!!

Too funny!!!!!! xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

[GannonFan]

Five??? Hmmm, I highly highly doubt that. The 5th best team in a conference does not deserve a playoff bid, imo. And I'll also assume that the 5th team will have 3 losses, and there will be another team out there that is 8-3 or 9-2 and is also deserving of a bid. I-AA is not that down this season where the committee would have to take 5 teams from one conference.

But what do I know? I just provide avatars for you all to lovingly view. lol

I think if everyone was sitting around 9-2, yeah, they'd all get in. Reality is, though, that's unlikely to happen. Having 4 get in from the A10 this year could be much easier to happen, though.

[BigApp]

Personally, that would be one of my qualifications for an auto-bid: To win the league AQ, you would have to play EVERY team in your conference every year.....

hmmmmmm...I like that idea...makes for a fair league champ as well.

[GannonFan]

hmmmmmm...I like that idea...makes for a fair league champ as well.

Nonsense - why have any conference greater than 6 teams? Heck, the A10 should just officially call itself two conferences (CAA North and CAA South) and ask for a second AQ. The proliferation of conferences and AQ in response to such a mandate would throw a wrench in the whole thing. Keep it the way it is and let the Selection Committee sift through the worthy candidates.

[BillLuc1982]

Nonsense - why have any conference greater than 6 teams? Heck, the A10 should just officially call itself two conferences (CAA North and CAA South) and ask for a second AQ. The proliferation of conferences and AQ in response to such a mandate would throw a wrench in the whole thing. Keep it the way it is and let the Selection Committee sift through the worthy candidates.

Who would be removed? Southland or MEAC?

[GannonFan]

Who would be removed? Southland or MEAC?

None probably - they'd just expand the playoffs to accomodate the surge in small conferences - heck, they are going to have to expand eventually - the Great West schools becoming all eligible in 2008 and the NEC moving to schollies mean there are going to be a lot more eligible teams pretty soon. Unless a bunch of teams go away (IA, II, or fold their tents) it isn't hard to imagine the playoffs expanding a little bit.

[BillLuc1982]

None probably - they'd just expand the playoffs to accomodate the surge in small conferences - heck, they are going to have to expand eventually - the Great West schools becoming all eligible in 2008 and the NEC moving to schollies mean there are going to be a lot more eligible teams pretty soon. Unless a bunch of teams go away (IA, II, or fold their tents) it isn't hard to imagine the playoffs expanding a little bit.

I was gonna say to add the GWFC since they have Cal Poly, UC Davis, and ND State. Then you could have 24 teams with 8 getting byes. The bye week will give teams more motivation to win all games instead of just qualifying :)

[BigApp]

I'm finding it amusing to see a Gateway person talking about someone having a "weak" out of conference schedule...

[dbackjon]

Nonsense - why have any conference greater than 6 teams? Heck, the A10 should just officially call itself two conferences (CAA North and CAA South) and ask for a second AQ. The proliferation of conferences and AQ in response to such a mandate would throw a wrench in the whole thing. Keep it the way it is and let the Selection Committee sift through the worthy candidates.


No - you can easily have 9 or 10 teams and play everyone. And minimum AQ size should be seven.

[aceinthehole]

None probably - they'd just expand the playoffs to accomodate the surge in small conferences - heck, they are going to have to expand eventually - the Great West schools becoming all eligible in 2008 and the NEC moving to schollies mean there are going to be a lot more eligible teams pretty soon. Unless a bunch of teams go away (IA, II, or fold their tents) it isn't hard to imagine the playoffs expanding a little bit.


Watch what you say it makes too much sense, not to mention some posters still insist that I-AA playoff expansion is not possible :rolleyes:

[WMTribe90]

If the Gateway can place 4 of 8 teams in the field there is absolutely no reason the A10 can't place 5 of 12. There should be no set number of teams that are allowed from one conference (actually, the selection comittee rules state just that). If an 8-3 UNH has the best resume (compared to the other at-large possibilities) than they should be in the playoffs as the 5th A10 team (per the outlined scenerio).

[crunifan]

I dunno. Last time an A10 had to play teams like SIU and UNI back-to-back it was fairly one sided. They were actually the easiest games of the year except for the DII. :smiley_wi


Actually, I recall the last meeting between the A-10 and the Gateway turned out a tad different.

You might have to ask New Hampshire about that though.

[blur2005]

Watch what you say it makes too much sense, not to mention some posters still insist that I-AA playoff expansion is not possible :rolleyes:
Until the NEC gets its schollies up and the Great West becomes fully eligible, then no, the playoffs shouldn't be expanded.

[TheValleyRaider]

Check this Scenario:

North:
Maine wins out and finish 9-2, with 8 Div-I wins while winning the the A-10North
UMass only losses to Maine and finishes 9-2, 9 Div-I wins, A-10 north 2nd due to head to head
UNH finished 8-3, 8 Div-I wins, including 1 Div-1A win, 3rd A-10 north

South:
JMU finished 10-1, 9 Div-1 wins, overal A-10 champion
Richmond with 2 losses and finishes 9-2, 9 Div-I wins including 1 Div-1A win, 2nd A-10 south..

Now the question is, will the Committee let five teams from one conference get in? Who losses out in this scenario for they are all impressive and possible?

Also note that as of today, each team is top 15 in the GPI the largest indicator for play-off selections....

DB

I'd drop UNH in that situation. In spite of their I-A victory, and having Santos/Ball, they'd have lost 2 of their last 3. This hurt Youngstown last year, and no reason to think it wouldn't get the Wildcats this year.

Of course, this is still all speculation given how much time is left. There's also the requirement that there still be reasonably qualified teams remaining.

[ChickenMan]

Four playoff teams is a stretch... five no chance

[*****]

Four playoff teams is a stretch... five no chance:nod:

[Umass74]

A couple of thoughts. Maine's failure to schedule a I-AA team could really bite them on the butt this year. If the Black Bears had a win over Albany or CCSU instead of Shaw already under their belt, they could really put the committee in bind.

There's a good chance that a pretty darn good A10 squad may not make cut----a team that would beat about 40% of the invited field. :twocents:

[JMU_MRD'03-'07]

Wait 2 weeks and see... thats what the A10 is about... Things change fast and anyone can win... even Rhode Island... that team that most people bash up on has given UD and JMU 2 of the closest games of the year for each.

In two weeks we probably won't have 5 teams to pick from anymore.

[DB_Atlantic10]

Yes, Ralph it is unreasonable - and brings up one of my pet peeves about larger conferences - not every team plays each other. Much easier to have multiple good record teams in a larger conference when the teams all don't play each other every year. This year, UMass avoids playing BOTH Richmond, and JMU. With a full conference schedule, two of those teams would have another loss. So IMHO, it is unfair to give the A-10 4 bids, let alone 5.

Personally, that would be one of my qualifications for an auto-bid: To win the league AQ, you would have to play EVERY team in your conference every year.....

Geeze, is 8 freaken conference games not enough.. there are 12 teams, who could know year in and year out who will be the best...with your scenerio, there would never be any OOC games, it will be 11 straight A-10 games each year...... No other conference has 8 games as the A-10....

[*****]

... No other conference has 8 games as the A-10....Whatever that means. :confused: Several conferences have 8 league games. Please don't tell me this is another "A-10 is toughest" boast posts. That all remains to be seen.

[DB_Atlantic10]

Five??? Hmmm, I highly highly doubt that. The 5th best team in a conference does not deserve a playoff bid, imo. And I'll also assume that the 5th team will have 3 losses, and there will be another team out there that is 8-3 or 9-2 and is also deserving of a bid. I-AA is not that down this season where the committee would have to take 5 teams from one conference.

But what do I know? I just provide avatars for you all to lovingly view. lol

Why does everyone assume it's the 5th best team...it could be a 4 place tie for 2nd with one clear winner for the auto.... Three 9-2 teams would not be a 5th best.....

[*****]

maybe eleven A-10 teams will be tied at 8 wins... :)

[DB_Atlantic10]

Whatever that means. :confused: Several conferences have 8 league games. Please don't tell me this is another "A-10 is toughest" boast posts. That all remains to be seen.


Not at all.... I think 8 conference game is enough... why should all 12 teams play each other year in and year out... it has nothing to do with the toughness of the A-10....that was a post specific reply.... If I'm wrong about other 8 games confs, sorry... I didn't think there were that many 9 or more teams conferences out there....

[*****]

... I didn't think there were that many 9 or more teams conferences out there....No prob. Half the AQ conferences have more than 8 teams (Big Sky, MEAC and OVC join the A-10).

[YoUDeeMan]

Yes, either UD or JMU would be the easiest drives (66 to 81 is a nice drive). Richmond isn't too bad either. If I went to UD, I'd Bay Bridge it or take US 1 (I-95 is $10 in tolls!!!). I may go to the UD-JMU game at JMU Nov. 4 and/or one of the last 2 UD home games in November. This weekend the folks are in town, and next weekend I'm going back to Youngstown for family reasons.

Money saving tips to visit a UD game from south on I-95.

1) You can avoid the DE-MD line toll by getting off on the last exit in MD (Elkton/Newark) instead of crossing into DE to the Newark, DE exit. No time lost.

2) If you plan on coming to Newark, or any place north on I-95, you can avoid the I-95 toll over the Susquahanna by getting off in Havre de Grace and crossing the Rt 40 bridge. The toll is the same ($4), as the I-95 toll, but you only have to pay it once per year versus paying it each time you stay on I-95. Time difference is about 5 minutes, but you can visit HdG and find some decent food. Next fall, if you like sailing, you can get to HdG on a Saturday morning, hitch a ride in a race, then still make a UD tailgate in time for a night game.

[dbackjon]

Not at all.... I think 8 conference game is enough... why should all 12 teams play each other year in and year out... it has nothing to do with the toughness of the A-10....that was a post specific reply.... If I'm wrong about other 8 games confs, sorry... I didn't think there were that many 9 or more teams conferences out there....
And I will always disagree on this. Teams duck out of tough conference games, then claim they have a good record...and the conference should get x number of teams in...:rolleyes: The fact that JMU/Richmond doesn't play UMass/Maine SHOULD be a factor in bids - a negative factor. If you want a big conference, fine - but IMHO, every team should play each other.

[DTSpider]

Way too early to have this discussion...check back in 3 weeks.

[BillLuc1982]

Money saving tips to visit a UD game from south on I-95.

1) You can avoid the DE-MD line toll by getting off on the last exit in MD (Elkton/Newark) instead of crossing into DE to the Newark, DE exit. No time lost.

2) If you plan on coming to Newark, or any place north on I-95, you can avoid the I-95 toll over the Susquahanna by getting off in Havre de Grace and crossing the Rt 40 bridge. The toll is the same ($4), as the I-95 toll, but you only have to pay it once per year versus paying it each time you stay on I-95. Time difference is about 5 minutes, but you can visit HdG and find some decent food. Next fall, if you like sailing, you can get to HdG on a Saturday morning, hitch a ride in a race, then still make a UD tailgate in time for a night game.

Seeing that I'm from DCish, I will probably take the Bay Bridge to US 301. The Eastern Shore of MD is awesome, and I may consider moving there if I ever work from home.

[Dukie95]

Yep, this talk was way premature. At this point, UNH appears to be the team on the outside looking in as they still have UMass and Maine.

[ccd494]

And I will always disagree on this. Teams duck out of tough conference games, then claim they have a good record...and the conference should get x number of teams in...:rolleyes: The fact that JMU/Richmond doesn't play UMass/Maine SHOULD be a factor in bids - a negative factor. If you want a big conference, fine - but IMHO, every team should play each other.

Fine, us in the A-10 will play only each other. No OOC. But EVERY team that goes 8-3 in the league gets into the playoffs. I'll make that deal.

[PantherRob82]

with the way things are going, the A-10 will not some of it's own teams out.