PATSY Ratings - Bucknell's Class of 2018

[Lehigh Football Nation]

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2014/02/patsy-ratings-bucknells-class-of-2018.html

[RichH2]

Well, I doubt Bison fans will be happy with the ratingxblehx Clear Susan considers D to be his main concern. BU may not score much this coming season but not likely anyone will score much on them either.

[PAllen]

So, you rounded down by at least a point in three categories, then have a committee adjustment of -5? That's a bit harsh, even if you are that in love with Offensive Linemen. To use your own words against you:"Bodies do not a need meet."

[van]

agree with PA, if they graduate 0 OL, where is the replacement need? Negative adjustment in large part due to no OL seems too harsh.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The Committee felt that have zero OL in an incoming class in an area that is 1) notoriously injury-prone and 2) is supposed to be nearly 1/6th the overall roster, is not a good thing. Compounding this is the fact that there are only 3 offensive players in a class of 18. It is the combination that causes the negative adjustment.

[carney2]

I disagree with the previous posters about the adjustments for a void in O-line recruiting. You just can't have it. You need more of the big uglies than any other position. They are prone to injury and starting the year without AT LEAST 10 serviceable O-linemen is asking for trouble. Add to that the fact - and it is a fact - that O-linemen are pretty much useless as freshmen (they need a year of college level weight training plus some time to learn a very complex job) and Bucknell is now two years from putting people into this pipeline. Just ask Lafayette's Frank Tavani what happens when you don't have REAL players for those positions. He is about to enter year 5 of digging out from an uglies famine. IMO, you need a minimum of 3 per year. Zero is like putting a gun to your had, especially in Buffalo where it's been mostly defense now for a few years with minimal results.

[RichH2]

The lack of any OL in a class will be an ongoing issue now for Bison.The fact that Susan may have decided the risk was worth it to bolster D does not alter the negative aspects in the least.

[van]

I disagree with the previous posters about the adjustments for a void in O-line recruiting. You just can't have it. You need more of the big uglies than any other position. They are prone to injury and starting the year without AT LEAST 10 serviceable O-linemen is asking for trouble. Add to that the fact - and it is a fact - that O-linemen are pretty much useless as freshmen (they need a year of college level weight training plus some time to learn a very complex job) and Bucknell is now two years from putting people into this pipeline. Just ask Lafayette's Frank Tavani what happens when you don't have REAL players for those positions. He is about to enter year 5 of digging out from an uglies famine. IMO, you need a minimum of 3 per year. Zero is like putting a gun to your had, especially in Buffalo where it's been mostly defense now for a few years with minimal results.

And just how many returning OL do they have? I counted 14 and mostly rising so and Jr? they lose a distribution point for no OL, fair enough. But additional -5 adjustment seems to great.

[van]

With a roster cap in place, what 3 other position players would you drop to add 3 OL to the 14 returning?

[PAllen]

With a roster cap in place, what 3 other position players would you drop to add 3 OL to the 14 returning?

This ^

[carney2]

And just how many returning OL do they have? I counted 14 and mostly rising so and Jr? they lose a distribution point for no OL, fair enough. But additional -5 adjustment seems to great.

I count 13, but not much difference. You make the same assumption/mistake as too many people playing the Patriot League scholarship numbers game. To wit, 15 scholarships = 15 bodies. As you will learn when the Patsies move through their course, Frank Tavani turned those 15 +/- scholarships into 26 bodies. Where there's a will, there's a way, and, as I pointed out above, Joe Susan has put a serious crimp in a very necessary pipeline. He needed to find a way. He didn't.

[RichH2]

Ok, 13 returnng 5 so' 4 jr and 4 sr. Bu s/b OK next yr assuming all stay and progress. The issue is the following yrs. Only 9 the next yr again assuming all stay and are healthy. Now BU must bring in a bunch and hope that a frosh or 2 can step up. As carney pointed out , a very rare event. Now Ol perhaps full but the imbalance continues as those extra spots must come from some other position.
I cant say how much the negative s/b but the lack of any OL cannot be ignored.

[bison137]

agree with PA, if they graduate 0 OL, where is the replacement need? Negative adjustment in large part due to no OL seems too harsh.


Any downward adjustment - even one point - would be way too harsh. Bucknell returns all 14 from what was a good offensive line - and almost all are frosh and sophs. Four frosh, in fact, made the two-deep this past season - and two of them started. Getting an OL, if a really good one was available, would have been nice - but there was absolutely no need for one this year.

[bison137]

I count 13, but not much difference. You make the same assumption/mistake as too many people playing the Patriot League scholarship numbers game. To wit, 15 scholarships = 15 bodies. As you will learn when the Patsies move through their course, Frank Tavani turned those 15 +/- scholarships into 26 bodies. Where there's a will, there's a way, and, as I pointed out above, Joe Susan has put a serious crimp in a very necessary pipeline. He needed to find a way. He didn't.


Actually there are 14 - hopefully 15 if a player returns. The OL is stacked with good frosh and sophs. This class did not put any crimp at all in the pipeline. If he doesn't bring in some OL next year, then that will be a legitimate comment.

[bison137]

You need more of the big uglies than any other position. They are prone to injury and starting the year without AT LEAST 10 serviceable O-linemen is asking for trouble. Add to that the fact - and it is a fact - that O-linemen are pretty much useless as freshmen (they need a year of college level weight training plus some time to learn a very complex job) and Bucknell is now two years from putting people into this pipeline.


Bucknell had a good OL this year. Two of the five starters were "useless" freshmen. One of the two "useless" starting freshmen made All-PL.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Bucknell had a good OL this year. Two of the five starters were "useless" freshmen. One of the two "useless" starting freshmen made All-PL.

This isn't a reflection about who is there now. (And take it from a Lehigh fan - they slapped Lehigh's defense around last year.) It's more about the four-year plan, and the amount of runway you leave yourself at such a critical position where you need bodies.

[RichH2]

137
agree,dont see an issue for the upcoming season. Ongoing it will be an issue. Your argument is based on assumptions that all remain,some come back and all remain healthy. Too many. That BU had some frosh step up is great for next yr. If all the assumptions pan out,OL could be OK.Risky proposition.

[van]

still waiting for someone to suggest what 3 other position players should not have been recruited so that there could be 17 OL on next years roster. Not sure how buffs got to a situation where they had so many sr's on D this year, but it seems to me that if your graduating guys are unbalanced by position, your recruiting will be unbalanced

[carney2]

dont see an issue for the upcoming season. Ongoing it will be an issue.

Is Rich the only guy who gets it? A Lehigh grad and he understands. Shame on all of you "educated" people. C'mon. The is the Patsies. This is about recruiting. This is about the next four years. This is NOT about the first game this September.

[CFBfan]

who is up next?

[van]

who is up next?

check ur alphabet, a b c______

[DFW HOYA]

check ur alphabet, a b c______

The order:
B, C, F, H, La, Le, (wait three months).......G.

[CFBfan]

check ur alphabet, a b c______

thanks, didn't know that you did it alphabetically

[ngineer]

I disagree with the previous posters about the adjustments for a void in O-line recruiting. You just can't have it. You need more of the big uglies than any other position. They are prone to injury and starting the year without AT LEAST 10 serviceable O-linemen is asking for trouble. Add to that the fact - and it is a fact - that O-linemen are pretty much useless as freshmen (they need a year of college level weight training plus some time to learn a very complex job) and Bucknell is now two years from putting people into this pipeline. Just ask Lafayette's Frank Tavani what happens when you don't have REAL players for those positions. He is about to enter year 5 of digging out from an uglies famine. IMO, you need a minimum of 3 per year. Zero is like putting a gun to your had, especially in Buffalo where it's been mostly defense now for a few years with minimal results.

Very true. You cannot ignore such a key component of the team.

[ngineer]

Keep in mind the ratings are for the incoming freshman class, NOT the ratings for next year's team. IF the Bison can remain healthy in the OL and with a true rising star RB, they could have a great ground game attack. And, perhaps, if they recruit a good number of OL in 2015,they can overcome this void, but it is unusual and not recommended.

[carney2]

thanks, didn't know that you did it alphabetically

Things have changed. Pre-scholarships, the recruiting classes would be released in dribs and drabs. Lafayette would inevitably be released on LoI day, Lehigh about 10 days later, then maybe 'gate or Cross, etc. It would generally take 4-6 weeks to get everyone but Georgetown. Now everyone* gets a press release out on LoI day so they're all* available immediately. The Patsies can go out in almost any order the author wishes. Starting with Bucknell hints that maybe it will be alphabetical, so...

*Everyone and all obviously excludes Georgetown and it shouldn't have to be stated...and restated...and...

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The Committee has been slow to determine who the next Patsy Rating release shall be, probably because the Committee is required to have a quorum and several of the Committee's vehicles have been accidentally (some say purposefully, by irate Buffalo fans) been frozen in with shovelled snow. Do these Committee members not have internet, mobile phones, or telex? (Do you have to ask?)

[CFBfan]

The Committee has been slow to determine who the next Patsy Rating release shall be, probably because the Committee is required to have a quorum and several of the Committee's vehicles have been accidentally (some say purposefully, by irate Buffalo fans) been frozen in with shovelled snow. Do these Committee members not have internet, mobile phones, or telex? (Do you have to ask?)

so thanks Carney and LFN, I thought that Van was being a d-bag but wasn't sure.....now I know

[RichH2]

xrolleyesx As we wait with baited breath for the next installment ( spooky movie music here), I wonder how teams are doing filling the numerous staff slots open thru the PL?xcoffeex

[carney2]

xrolleyesx As we wait with baited breath for the next installment ( spooky movie music here), I wonder how teams are doing filling the numerous staff slots open thru the PL?xcoffeex

Lafayette's DC search is looking for someone - anyone - with experience - or even a dream of - stopping that Colgate two back read-run thing. Rumor is they've even talked to a guy with an old Dickie Biddle doll with pins in it. Lehigh is still trolling the homeless population under the Hill-to-Hill Bridge. The rallying cry is "Warm bodies before spring practice." Georgetown has filled its primary position with the only qualified guy likely to take the job. They now need to fill in with people on suicide watch. As for the others, they are focusing on "best available. God knows what that means.

And exactly how does on bait breath? Night crawlers?, dough balls?, unlaundered athletic socks?,...

[RichH2]

xnodx
Lafayette's DC search is looking for someone - anyone - with experience - or even a dream of - stopping that Colgate two back read-run thing. Rumor is they've even talked to a guy with an old Dickie Biddle doll with pins in it. Lehigh is still trolling the homeless population under the Hill-to-Hill Bridge. The rallying cry is "Warm bodies before spring practice." Georgetown has filled its primary position with the only qualified guy likely to take the job. They now need to fill in with people on suicide watch. As for the others, they are focusing on "best available. God knows what that means.

And exactly how does on bait breath? Night crawlers?, dough balls?, unlaundered athletic socks?,...


Very good. I was wondering whether anyone would catch thatxlolx Got my punch line tho;)

[Lehigh'98]

Lehigh's coaching situation is a disaster. Still no word on the defense and it's almost March. An unproven OC who is younger than 2 assistants who are teaching him the offense. Coen doesn't seem to be very organized at the moment and my hopes are getting lower each passing day for this season. Winning has masked a lot the last 3 seasons, with Cecchini gone, the wins could be much harder to come by.

[RichH2]

Over reacting 98. Andy said staff complete by end of Feb. Spec is choices already made. Delay probably HR posting at LU. Calm thyself

[Fordham]

How many DL are on the Bison roster? Looks like they picked up 5 in this class. Are all 5 of them purely DL and didn't play OL in HS? That seems very unlikely imo.

I think there is typically alot of back and forth between the OL and DL positions so that you can almost count them as one group of "linemen". Just my .02 but I would argue that (-5) is over the top for that reason; unless you come back and say that they're all skinny, pass rushing DE's who's other position was WR or RB.

As always, thanks for the work, fellas.

[carney2]

How many DL are on the Bison roster? Looks like they picked up 5 in this class. Are all 5 of them purely DL and didn't play OL in HS? That seems very unlikely imo.

I think there is typically alot of back and forth between the OL and DL positions so that you can almost count them as one group of "linemen". Just my .02 but I would argue that (-5) is over the top for that reason; unless you come back and say that they're all skinny, pass rushing DE's who's other position was WR or RB.

As always, thanks for the work, fellas.

The Buckies return 5 DL from 2013, all but one of whom weigh in as "jumbos." As LFN pointed out, only one of the 5 DL recruits is a "jumbo," and he is only 260. As a group they average 239. It would be very surprising if any of those guys could be switched to play in a Patriot League Offensive line. Apparently Susan felt that he has the run stuffing interior linemen, but needed help at DE.

[RichH2]

Only we could squeeze hockey and Bball into a Patsy thread.