Holy Cross - Darthmouth brawl?

[griz37]

Sorry if this has been posted earlier, I had not even heard of it until this morning.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/football/ncaa/10/17/dartmouth.holycross.ap/index.html

[blur2005]

Eh, it can't compare to Miami-FIU. Then again, nothing I've ever seen brawl-wise can compare to Miami-FIU.

[Green26]

As stated in the article, this was nothing like the Miami brawl, and I doubt that it's a big deal. I'm glad it's largely not on tape.

The Hanover police ought to stay out of this. If no one is complaining, then why are legal authorities involved. The police chief is bad news, according to what I've heard. The Hanover police raided a Dartmouth fraternity this summer, with something like a dozen officers, and apparently didn't find what they were looking for and netted virtually nothing. Huge overkill.

This is a matter that should be dealt with by school and conference officials. Maybe I'm old school, but if no one got hurt and no one is complaining, and the replay is not being televised constantly, what's the big deal? Punches get thrown during games all the time during games, and in other places.

Note that Dartmouth and Holy Cross players seem to be smart enough to keep them helmets on in situations like this.

[rcny46]

I have to agree with Green26 100% regarding this matter.The fact that the word "arrest" was even mentioned in this case is ludicrous. :twocents:

[atlGAmocs]

i think that these "thugs" should be expelled from their respective colleges. There is no room in athletics for this type of behavior, except in hockey and baseball (where apparently bench clearing brawls are okay if someone is hit by an inside pitch). I mean lets use the same terms and slanders for Dartmouth that people are using for Miami.

[WMTribe90]

You can't compare an outright brawl (Miami and FIU) to a few punches thrown.

You also can't compare Miami's two decades worth of thuggery to an isolated incident in Dartmouth's and Holy Cross's otherwise exemplary record of sportsmanship.

[UNHWildCats]

Im sick of what started With Terrell Owens and the Dallas Star, moved onto Michigan State planting there flag at Notre Dames 50 yard line last year and then some team trying that this year to another team, to Holy Cross dancing on the Dartmouth D.

It is disrespectful to the team you just beat and those players have no place in the representation of their school.

Any collerge athlete that does that should be banished from NCAA sanctioned sports permanently. I applaud the Dartmouth Players for their actions.

[tribe_pride]

If the same thing happened at a I-A school, people on here would and have ripped apart the schools, the programs and all of I-A saying how this would never happen in I-AA.

Let's hold I-AA schools to the same standard. There is no room for this anywhere. The game was over. Not only were there punches thrown but people were thrown to the ground and kicked as well. It may not have been as bad as Mia-FIU but there is no place in football for this on any level and there better be some suspensions coming.

By the way, I agree that the police need to stay out of this.

[Mr. C]

Reminds me of a fight at a high school game I covered 15 or 20 years ago in California. The team I regularly covered blew a 13-point lead in the final two minutes (fumbling two consecutive dive plays to set up TDs for their opponents) and lost by one point. When they were doing the post-game handshakes, a couple of players decided to go at and a huge brawl erupted. While the kids were fighting, several school administrator (the guys who were suppose to be doing security) tried to obstruct my photographer from taking photos, rather than trying to break up the fight. A police officer, meanwhile, got involved and body slammed an injured player, who was trying to break up the fight, to the ground and seperated his shoulder. It ended this kid's season. A lot of times, security and police just make matters worse in these things.

[GannonFan]

Im sick of what started With Terrell Owens and the Dallas Star, moved onto Michigan State planting there flag at Notre Dames 50 yard line last year and then some team trying that this year to another team, to Holy Cross dancing on the Dartmouth D.

It is disrespectful to the team you just beat and those players have no place in the representation of their school.

Any collerge athlete that does that should be banished from NCAA sanctioned sports permanently. I applaud the Dartmouth Players for their actions.

I agree with everything you said up to applauding the Dartmouth guys who threw the punches. There's been way too much disrespect allowed in sports lately, and all the examples you bring up are good examples of that. Players should play the game, celebrate when they win, but not go out of their way to disrespect the other team when they do. Coaches need to step in here and lay down some harsh discipline when a player or players go too far. Just as the Dartmouth guys shouldn't have thrown punches, the Holy Cross guys should've never danced on the D - that kind of disrespect was unwarranted.

[*****]

If the same thing happened at a I-A school, people on here would and have ripped apart the schools, the programs and all of I-A saying how this would never happen in I-AA. Let's hold I-AA schools to the same standard...That kind of minor stuff happens a bunch even at I-AA. Suspend the troublemakers.
"I don't remember seeing anyone using a helmet as a weapon," [police chief Nicholas Giaccone] said. "It was not any type of fighting situation. There was a lot of screaming, yelling and physical contact."

[WMTribe90]

If the same thing happened at a I-A school, people on here would and have ripped apart the schools, the programs and all of I-A saying how this would never happen in I-AA.

Let's hold I-AA schools to the same standard. There is no room for this anywhere. The game was over. Not only were there punches thrown but people were thrown to the ground and kicked as well. It may not have been as bad as Mia-FIU but there is no place in football for this on any level and there better be some suspensions coming.

By the way, I agree that the police need to stay out of this.

TP,

I wasn't condoning the fight between HC and Dartmouth. Players who threw punches or kicks should be suspended. I was only taking exception to comparing the HC and Dartmouth programs to the level of a Miami program in terms of thuggery. One was likely an isolated situation (still requiring stiff consequences) the other represents a continuation (or perhaps escalation) of two decades worth of horrendous on and off field behavior with a near total lack of instiutional control.

[hvsader]

our place kicker was interviewed on sportsjuice.com...no questions about the fight. What was he thinking before the kick? Was it anything like his OT game winner from a few years ago? He says...yes, it was. In fact he's sort of thinking about how he almost got crushed by the team that time. So this time he decides to run after making the kick, and is finally caught up to at midfield and the mob scene begins...jumping and dancing (I guess) where the "D" happens to be...I wasn't there, but might just be all there is to the story

[dirtbag]

http://sports.bostonherald.com/college/football/view.bg?articleid=162886

It just burns me when gutless administrators like Donna Shalala and Charles Bare coddle criminals just because they play football.

[cosmo here]

http://sports.bostonherald.com/college/football/view.bg?articleid=162886

It just burns me when gutless administrators like Donna Shalala and Charles Bare coddle criminals just because they play football.

Did you read the article? :confused: :read: Charles Bare is the sports information director. He has no more power to discipline these players than you or I do. Please amend your post accordingly, before anybody thinks he had anything to do with it.

Donna Shalala, meanwhile, is the President of the University of Miami. So if you want to bash anybody for the Holy Cross incident, go at the AD, president and head coach.

[Green26]

What do you think the Dartmouth guys should have done--after they asked, or demanded, that the HC guys stop stomping/kicking the D, which they did do? Would it be okay to push them off the D, which again I believe they did do. By the way, I don't think it should be assumed that a Dartmouth guy threw the first punch.

[tribe_pride]

I personally am not blaming one side or the other for starting the fight. You throw a punch, you kick someone, you should be suspended at a minimum. The schools, the conference and the NCAA should be embarassed if nobody gets punished for this.

[*****]

I personally am not blaming one side or the other for starting the fight. You throw a punch, you kick someone, you should be suspended at a minimum. The schools, the conference and the NCAA should be embarassed if nobody gets punished for this.and I-AA in general :nod:

[Dabnus Brickey]

Seems like there's been a lot of fighting lately in football...

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I think this is a gutless "see, even Dartmouth and Holy Cross fight too" in response to the Miami/FIU brawl. Kind of unfortunate timing, and of course nowhere near the same intensity.

Too bad there's no film of the inicident... that would atop this bull**** "fight equivalence" thing in its tracks. Of course, they are two completely different things.

[justballn21]

Im sick of what started With Terrell Owens and the Dallas Star, moved onto Michigan State planting there flag at Notre Dames 50 yard line last year and then some team trying that this year to another team, to Holy Cross dancing on the Dartmouth D.

It is disrespectful to the team you just beat and those players have no place in the representation of their school.

Any collerge athlete that does that should be banished from NCAA sanctioned sports permanently. I applaud the Dartmouth Players for their actions.

alright, a few things need to be cleared up about this "dancing on the D" thing that Dartmouth keeps bringing up. At no point in time dide holy cross dance on the d, either before or after the game. Before every game during pregame the team gets behinod their punt unit as he punts out of the end zone to the middle of the field. The team then gathers and breaks it down into the locker room. It has been a harmless tradition, whether theyre home or away, and no one has questioned it before Dartmouth decided to take it personally. After the game, when holy cross kicked the winning field goal, they migrated to the middle of the field to gather to do the sportsmanship handshake. As coach Gilmore mentioned, if a team isn't excited about winning an overtime football game, then there is something seriously wrong with them. At no point did Holy Cross "stomp on the D", Dartmouth just chose to take it taht way, and now that they're in trouble theyve decided to resort to using it as an excuse to charge the Holy Cross team after the victory. Let's be clear on one thing....Dartmouth definitely charged Holy Cross, not the other way around. Even Dartmouth fans admit their guilt on their own boards. sp give it a rest. Dartmouth is just trying to find some justification for their actions. I don't buy it.

[Green26]

Holy Cross was jumping on the D and kicking at it, both before and after game. This is based on first hand reports from mulitple people at the game. Since HC kicked a FG to win in overtime, does it not seem odd that they would hold their celebration at midfield, instead of near the endzone where the FG was kicked?

[Fordham]

Holy Cross was jumping on the D and kicking at it, both before and after game. This is based on first hand reports from mulitple people at the game. Since HC kicked a FG to win in overtime, does it not seem odd that they would hold their celebration at midfield, instead of near the endzone where the FG was kicked?
posted as if you were there. were you?

[kardplayer]

Reminds me of a fight at a high school game I covered 15 or 20 years ago in California...several school administrator (the guys who were suppose to be doing security) tried to obstruct my photographer from taking photos, rather than trying to break up the fight...

I think this was a good move.

Photos of fights at a high school sporting event serve no public good and shouldn't be published or even taken. All it does is potentially scar the 14-18 year olds captured on film and make them the public face of an unsavory incident that they likely didn't instigate. With football in the fall, its more than likely that none of these kids was even 18 yet. For pete's sake, give these kids a chance to actually break all the way through puberty before tarnishing them.

If you think I'm overreacting, I can tell you that I'm not. My freshman year of high school, "my" football team (I was standing on the sideline) won the state championship in a rout. On what would be the last play of what had become a game full of cheap shots by our opponents, with about 2 minutes left our punter ran out of the back to give them a safety (score after safety - 52-8) and avoid injury (coaches were certain they would rough the kicker based on the previous 5 minutes).

As our punter cleared the back of the end zone and relaxed, he was hit by two of their players. A bench clearing brawl erupted, which included one of their fans tearing off a piece of bleacher and bringing it onto the field to get into the fight. Being a team player, I ran onto the field to defend my teammates. This included pulling opposing players off of them when needed.

If a photographer had snapped a picture of me that looked like I was up to no good, despite the fact I was keeping the peace, I could have been suspended the following season. Essentially, your photographer could have done the exact same thing that the policeman had done - injure an innocent player.

So tell me now what the administrator did wrong?

[kardplayer]

I personally am not blaming one side or the other for starting the fight. You throw a punch, you kick someone, you should be suspended at a minimum. The schools, the conference and the NCAA should be embarassed if nobody gets punished for this.

I agree.

[justballn21]

Taking only Dartmouth fans accounts into consideration is absurd. I was on the sidelines that game and we did not stomp on the D intentionally. Let me present this idea to you. Why has Dartmouth been the only one to complain of a Holy Cross team going to midfield to celebrate during the pregame, considering the punt drill is something that holy cross has done FOR YEARS? It's just justification for their actions.


heres accounts from people at the game:

Author:
OldGreen
[Edit] Date Posted: 23:09:23 10/15/06 Sun
You better get your glasses updated or you are the classless one, spreading obvious falsehoods about this incident. I'm all for competitveness and intensity but HC was simply celebrating an overtime win. They were not taunting our players or coaches. Their sideline met their players on the filed around the 30 and chased their kicker doen near midfield. I did not take it as any deliberate disrespect and even if it was, it still does not justify the Green actions.

As much as it pains me to admit, we were the classless ones in this case. Our players and coaches started the whole incident. I hate losing as much as the next guy but some of us obviously just can't take another loss and are making excusues for our obnoxious behavior.

Author:
digginit (Joyful)
[Edit] Date Posted: 02:41:59 10/15/06 Sun
the holy cross team goes to the middle of the field before every game before they are led into the locker room as I am told by my friend who is a longtime holy cross fan. that is ridiculous they were "stomping on the d" before they went in. No coaches were in the huddle during this period, dartmouth fans obviously have a different view...but I know for a fact there wre no HC coaches before the game in the middle of the huddle. After the game, it was the kicker who was running across the field (hc) who ended up being caught by his players near the "D" to celebrate. After a BRIEF celebration, Dartmouth players came out and pushed HC players..which started the fight. This blame on HC is ridiculous, as any team would celebrate an overtime field goal. Gilmore did not throw a punch, but merely approached Teevens about sending his players out to "protect the "D" which the HC players were celebrating NEAR (i emphasize near) after their defeat. The dartmouth players were responsible for the incident, and I feel ashamed to be a part of the homecoming crowd in attendence. In no way should Holy Cross be responsible...once a dartmouth fan, now I'm not.

Author:
big d
[Edit] Date Posted: 11:17:42 10/15/06 Sun
What appears to be the consistent theme throughout all of these postings is that the Dartmouth team instigated this activity after the game. If one wants to say that HC instigated it by celebrating on the field let me remind you that this is not a group of boys in the school playground being told to be nice to each other. Obviously Dartmouth is hugely frustrated by their 0-5 record this year and 0-9 record over the last nine games but like any team they are a reflection of their coach....good luck.

Author:
OldGreen
[Edit] Date Posted: 23:24:47 10/15/06 Sun
You can't be serious! HC just won an emotional game in overtime. Should we restrict the area where they can celebrate? This is riduculous and I can't believe that you are defending these actions and somehow blaming Gilmore. We should have defended our turf during the game instead of fabricating this motivation to start a brawl after we lost!

[cosmo here]

http://sports.bostonherald.com/college/football/view.bg?articleid=162886

It just burns me when gutless administrators like Donna Shalala and Charles Bare coddle criminals just because they play football.

I'm still waiting on dirtbag to disassociate Charles Bare (HC's sports information department) from this post. xcoffeex

[Andy]

Other opinions:

"What Dartmouth will have to put behind them without a doubt is the fiasco that occurred after last week's game. Spurred by Holy Cross' almost Terrell Owens-esque dancing on the Dartmouth "D" at midfield after the loss, a fight ensued between the Crusaders and the Big Green, with both coaches becoming involved as well. The general consensus among players and students is that the act was "classless."


http://www.thedartmouth.com/article.php?aid=2006101903010

[cosmo here]

Other opinions:

"What Dartmouth will have to put behind them without a doubt is the fiasco that occurred after last week's game. Spurred by Holy Cross' almost Terrell Owens-esque dancing on the Dartmouth "D" at midfield after the loss, a fight ensued between the Crusaders and the Big Green, with both coaches becoming involved as well. The general consensus among players and students is that the act was "classless."


http://www.thedartmouth.com/article.php?aid=2006101903010

good to see you back Andy, I saw you posted this on the voy too. where have you been? it's been a long time since Bucknell : smh :

[Andy]

good to see you back Andy, I saw you posted this on the voy too. where have you been? it's been a long time since Bucknell : smh :

Busily over-posting on the voy board, wish you'd stop by more often.

[cosmo here]

Busily over-posting on the voy board, wish you'd stop by more often.

You've gotta hang out over here . . then you don't have to put up with readynow? and that crew.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Fartmouth is a bunch of loud mouthed, fat, namedropping losers and I am sure the whole thing started from their lack of class.

[Marcus Garvey]

Fartmouth is a bunch of loud mouthed, fat, namedropping losers and I am sure the whole thing started from their lack of class.

I agree! Especially with the childish namecalling and the meticulous attention to fact checking that you clearly put into this post.

Does your mommy know you've logged onto her computer? xrolleyesx

[HensRock]

Why are we digging this up from LAST OCTOBER???
Pleae no responses - let this thread die (again).

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

If you read most of the posts on this lame ass board, we have to dredge stuff up to keep it from turning into a funeral.

If you dont like it dont read it. Now make me a sandwich, hen.

[UNHFan99]

Hate to bring it up, but UNI stomped and kicked the wildcat logo after their playoff win at UNH in 05. It wasnt every player and just about 15 and then they were pulled back by teamates of theirs that had some more class and poise. There was a group of about 20 UNH players that were ready snap on them, but I think the only reason they didnt go was because of their respect for Sean Mcdonnel. One thing he preaches is win with class and lose with class.

Once again this isnt against UNI or their team. I just think people get caught up in the moment and become followers.

I do think it shows how much control a coach has if his team is dumb enough to fight.

[TheValleyRaider]

If you read most of the posts on this lame ass board, we have to dredge stuff up to keep it from turning into a funeral.

If you dont like it dont read it. Now make me a sandwich, hen.

For only have a dozen posts, you're making quite an entrance here xeyebrowx