3 FBS Games - Worth FCS Doing Away With?

[TexasTerror]

Wish FCS would outlaw playing games at non-Div I schools and allowing schools to play three FBS.

Thoughts on scheduling of three FBS games?

Seems Nicholls State (Air Force, North Texas and Arkansas) and Presbyterian (Northern Illinois, NC State and Ole Miss) are guilty of essentially scheduling themselves out of the playoffs. The Colonels have eight conference games while the Blue Hose have five, so I guess it is slightly more acceptable for a Presbyterian program that has a hard time finding games...

Tip of the cap to the Blue Hose for scheduling Div I foes at home (Furman and Western Carolina) out of conference, in addition to non-Div I Bluefield. Nicholls was only able to muster a Henderson State.

[centennial]

Agreed about the FBS, not D-II. Ferris state last year gave NDSU more of a game than some D1 teams including Delaware state and arguably 1 or 2 more. I would rather play a good D-II instead of a no scholarship D-I.

[lionsrking2]

I don't think either should be "outlawed." Scheduling is difficult enough as it is, and taking options away makes it that much tougher. Plus some schools need three FBS games to balance the budget, and doing away with non D-I road games could kill longstanding rivalries.

If there was a way to work it out, I would be in favor of some sort of rule, that would require FCS schools to try and schedule an FCS opponent first, before playing non D-Is, or a third FBS game, but I wouldn't ban the practice altogether.

[PaladinFan]

I don't think either should be "outlawed." Scheduling is difficult enough as it is, and taking options away makes it that much tougher. Plus some schools need three FBS games to balance the budget, and doing away with non D-I road games could kill longstanding rivalries.

If there was a way to work it out, I would be in favor of some sort of rule, that would require FCS schools to try and schedule an FCS opponent first, before playing non D-Is, or a third FBS game, but I wouldn't ban the practice altogether.

In my estimation, if you need three FBS games to balance the budget, you might want to check and see whether FCS football is the right move for your university.

It is not unheard of. I recall when Troy moved into the FBS ranks they played just about anyone that would pay them anywhere they'd play them. I just don't think you want to make a habit of it, but if it helps fill the coffers so you can get a foothold, then go for it.

[TexasTerror]

Agreed about the FBS, not D-II. Ferris state last year gave NDSU more of a game than some D1 teams including Delaware state and arguably 1 or 2 more. I would rather play a good D-II instead of a no scholarship D-I.

NDSU did not travel to Ferris State... was referring to traveling to non-Division I schools as is the case with a limited amount of institutions.


In my estimation, if you need three FBS games to balance the budget, you might want to check and see whether FCS football is the right move for your university.

Agreed... I think playing three FBS games negatively impacts the conference and its competitiveness. You can say what you want, but playing three of these games has some impact on a team, even if you win one of them - especially when you lead off the season with these games. It also hurts the conference when said team(s) are essentially making themselves ineligible for the playoff (presuming three losses, which is more likely than not) and having to climb themselves through the conference to get an AQ in order to reach the playoffs.

[lionsrking2]

In my estimation, if you need three FBS games to balance the budget, you might want to check and see whether FCS football is the right move for your university.

It is not unheard of. I recall when Troy moved into the FBS ranks they played just about anyone that would pay them anywhere they'd play them. I just don't think you want to make a habit of it, but if it helps fill the coffers so you can get a foothold, then go for it.

That's another issue entirely, and not quite that simple. For instance, the state of Louisiana has undergone several years of draconian budget cuts which have been applied, disproportionately, to higher education. Nicholls State has been hit especially hard, due to their relatively low enrollment, and scheduling three FBS games is a necessity for the time being to balance the athletic budget. It's easy to say they should reassess their FCS status, but that's not something you simply give up when times are bad, or should be forced into doing.

[walliver]

I have no issues with D-2 games. The better D-2 teams are playing at a higher level than many FCS teams. There is a reason few FCS teams ever schedule Valdosta State and its peers. Many of the lower level FCS teams have attendance figures at or below D-2 schools. If you want to ban games against D-2 schools, you should also ban games against PFL schools.

NDSU, Montana, and others of that ilk will probably never play at a D-2 of PFL school because it makes no financial sense. For some of the smallest FCS programs, a home-and-home with a D-2 does make sense.

As for FBS games, I think it is a bad idea to schedule more than 2, and even 2 is often too much. PC has had a hard time competing at D-I and needs all the financial help they can get.

I don't think the NCAA should tell any school who they can and cannot play.

[Bogus Megapardus]

The Patriot League rules supposedly prohibit DII games. Are there any others who prohibit them?

[lionsrking2]

It also hurts the conference when said team(s) are essentially making themselves ineligible for the playoff (presuming three losses, which is more likely than not) and having to climb themselves through the conference to get an AQ in order to reach the playoffs.

In Nicholls' case, it would hurt the conference worse, if they were not allowed to pursue all potential revenue streams, and potentially being forced into D-II or D-III, or abandoning football altogether. You may disagree, but they're a valued member of the Southland Conference, and should be allowed to operate the way they see fit, within reason of course. If they can schedule three FBS games, and feel it gives them the best opportunity to balance the books, more power to them.

[centennial]

In Nicholls' case, it would hurt the conference worse, if they were not allowed to pursue all potential revenue streams, and potentially being forced into D-II or D-III, or abandoning football altogether. You may disagree, but they're a valued member of the Southland Conference, and should be allowed to operate the way they see fit, within reason of course. If they can schedule three FBS games, and feel it gives them the best opportunity to balance the books, more power to them.
Usually with 3 games they are helping finance the whole athletic budget. I know it might be necessary but going against 3 opponents that are almost sure losses probably hurts the team morale. Even in a good year 2-3 FBS games can send you out of the playoffs.

[lionsrking2]

Usually with 3 games they are helping finance the whole athletic budget. I know it might be necessary but going against 3 opponents that are almost sure losses probably hurts the team morale. Even in a good year 2-3 FBS games can send you out of the playoffs.

I'm not saying it's an ideal situation, or good for your football program ... I just don't think there should be a rule against it.

[Go Green]

The Patriot League rules supposedly prohibit DII games. Are there any others who prohibit them?

I assume those 100-something games the PL played against D-II schools go way back...

http://cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_iaa/patriot/vs_conf.php

The Ivy has played a few D-II schools since the I-AA split. But all of them were in the 1980s.

[Sader87]

I assume those 100-something games the PL played against D-II schools go way back...

http://cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_iaa/patriot/vs_conf.php

The Ivy has played a few D-II schools since the I-AA split. But all of them were in the 1980s.

The PL is 15-11 against the SEC all-time....just sayin' :D

[Oldschool Colonel]

I think our schedule gives us a little recruiting advantage. Most of these kids think they were missed by the big boys, why not play the best and see how you compare?
Beating Western Michigan was the high point of our season last year.Maybe an SEC win will be next year.
The budget is what it is. I kinda like the trips to Oregon,Arkansas,and Oregon State.

[Catatonic]

Merits of the argument aside, the NCAA has too many &^*) rules unevenly enforced as it is. Worse than the federal gobermint. Let schools what is in their best interest or at least leave rules about scheduling to conferences. Keep the NCAA out of it.

That's my contribution to this thread. Bye

[TexasTerror]

I think our schedule gives us a little recruiting advantage. Most of these kids think they were missed by the big boys, why not play the best and see how you compare?

How has the 'recruiting advantage' played out in Southland Conference play? Individuals on the Nicholls' board have showed that under Stubbs, the program has regressed. Is Nicholls recruiting better athletes than its fellow Louisiana programs? Has it closed the gap when comparing recruiting efforts with McNeese or Northwestern State? Gotten a leg up on Southeastern?


Beating Western Michigan was the high point of our season last year.Maybe an SEC win will be next year.
The budget is what it is. I kinda like the trips to Oregon,Arkansas,and Oregon State.

The win over Western Michigan was a nice feather in the cap of the Colonels, but what's the demeanor for the team, what's the goals for the team when you are more times than not starting 0-3 vs Div I competition and being outscored by an average of 25+ points per game heading into league play?

Nice experiences, certainly... but budget shortcomings aside, from a football standpoint, what real benefits are there to playing not one, not two, but three FBS games? I just don't see too many.

[PAllen]

I assume those 100-something games the PL played against D-II schools go way back...

http://cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_iaa/patriot/vs_conf.php

The Ivy has played a few D-II schools since the I-AA split. But all of them were in the 1980s.

Bucknell played Southern Conn St. twice in the mid '90s. So, I'm not so sure about the "rule".

22-11 against the Big XII, 2-1 vs the PAC 12, and 15-11 vs the SEC. I love historical stats posed against today's environment. :)

[Oldschool Colonel]

How has the 'recruiting advantage' played out in Southland Conference play? Individuals on the Nicholls' board have showed that under Stubbs, the program has regressed. Is Nicholls recruiting better athletes than its fellow Louisiana programs? Has it closed the gap when comparing recruiting efforts with McNeese or Northwestern State? Gotten a leg up on Southeastern?



The win over Western Michigan was a nice feather in the cap of the Colonels, but what's the demeanor for the team, what's the goals for the team when you are more times than not starting 0-3 vs Div I competition and being outscored by an average of 25+ points per game heading into league play?

Nice experiences, certainly... but budget shortcomings aside, from a football standpoint, what real benefits are there to playing not one, not two, but three FBS games? I just don't see too many.

When I typed recruiting advantage I knew someone would scream "ya'll suck" so how is that an advantage.
Well lets be honest. It's not easy getting kids to Nicholls anyway. We are almost a last resort. For us it's can we get a kid to take a scholly over walking on somewhere else.
Don't believe anything you read on our board. Coach Stubbs is doing an outstanding job. Things started to go down hill last year with injuries. It started with the Northwestern State game. First we lost our rb Washington, then our all Slc and all Louisiana te Scelfo. Before the year was over we lost 9 of 11 starters on defense.
I wonder where we would have finished if the team that beat Western Michigan had played the rest of the season.

[JSUBison]

The Patriot League rules supposedly prohibit DII games. Are there any others who prohibit them?

I'm pretty sure the NEC as well.