Title IX Causes Recruiting Frenzy For... Women's Soccer

[Lehigh Football Nation]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/27/sports/committing-to-play-for-a-college-then-starting-9th-grade.html?hp&_r=1


Before Haley Berg was done with middle school, she had the numbers for 16 college soccer coaches programmed into the iPhone she protected with a Justin Bieber case.
She was all of 14, but Hales, as her friends call her, was already weighing offers to attend the University of Colorado, Texas A&M and the University of Texas, free of charge.
Haley is not a once-in-a-generation talent like LeBron James. She just happens to be a very good soccer player, and that is now valuable enough to set off a frenzy among college coaches, even when — or especially when — the athlete in question has not attended a day of high school. For Haley, the process ended last summer, a few weeks before ninth grade began, when she called the coach at Texas to accept her offer of a scholarship four years later.


One of the more interesting collateral effects of modern recruiting and Title IX is the fact that, in a non-revenue sport like women's soccer, there is a glut of scholarships and a dearth of top-flight talent, meaning the pressure to recruit and retain the services of the top athletes is enormous, and even the Ivy League is reaching into ninth grade to recruit the top girls.

What's really interesting, and not mentioned by the article, is how Title IX has been around for multiple decades yet the pool of elite women athletes has not grown to accommodate all the scholarships, like it has in football and men's basketball. Also, women's basketball was not mentioned in the article, but I bet it could have been, since there's about 10 programs that get all the elite talent.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Ima hold out for curling and synchronized swimming. That's where the big bucks are.

[Go Green]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/27/sports/committing-to-play-for-a-college-then-starting-9th-grade.html?hp&_r=1



and even the Ivy League is reaching into middle schools to recruit the top girls.


Not really sure the article said that.

"Ivy League colleges, which generally have the toughest standards for admission, generally avoid recruiting high school freshmen, but the programs do not stay out of the process altogether, according to coaches at the colleges, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the topic.

Two Ivy League coaches said they were generally able to look at players with a grade-point average above 3.7 and a score above 2,000 on the College Boards — out of 2,400 — much lower than the standard for nonathlete applicants. Ivy League coaches can put their recruits on a list of preferred candidates given to admissions officers, who in turn help the process along by telling coaches in the summer after an athlete’s junior year whether the player is likely to be admitted — months before other applicants find out."

If Ivy coaches are looking at middle school girls at all, they're probably limited to middle schools that lead into high schools that are traditional Ivy feeders (among others, Harvard-Westlake, Sidwell Friends, etc.). I'd imagine it would be too much of a waste of time for Ivy coaches to follow some middle school girls only to find out by her junior year that her SAT is far too low for Ivy admissions departments.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Not really sure the article said that.

"Ivy League colleges, which generally have the toughest standards for admission, generally avoid recruiting high school freshmen, but the programs do not stay out of the process altogether, according to coaches at the colleges, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the topic.

Two Ivy League coaches said they were generally able to look at players with a grade-point average above 3.7 and a score above 2,000 on the College Boards — out of 2,400 — much lower than the standard for nonathlete applicants. Ivy League coaches can put their recruits on a list of preferred candidates given to admissions officers, who in turn help the process along by telling coaches in the summer after an athlete’s junior year whether the player is likely to be admitted — months before other applicants find out."

If Ivy coaches are looking at middle school girls at all, they're probably limited to middle schools that lead into high schools that are traditional Ivy feeders (among others, Harvard-Westlake, Sidwell Friends, etc.). I'd imagine it would be too much of a waste of time for Ivy coaches to follow some middle school girls only to find out by her junior year that her SAT is far too low for Ivy admissions departments.

I amended it to read "ninth graders". I agree that it would be a likely waste for IL schools to go to 9th grade too often because grades can go anywhere from middle school to high school.

Though the competition appears to be so great I think top grades could also be used as a eliminating factor in these schools. I'd bet if you look at these women's soccer APRs they're probably close to perfect scores of 1,000.

[Bill]

Ima hold out for curling and synchronized swimming. That's where the big bucks are.

Synchronized swimming? Has to be one of the best SNL skits...ever.

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=18812&stc=1

[MplsBison]

Neither the NCAA nor Title IX makes any requirement about fielding competitive teams in non-revenue or women's athletics .In other words, simply having a team is sufficient to meet the NCAA and Title IX participation requirements.

Thus, there shouldn't be any pressure to win games for those teams.


So, the idea of spending money to attain "top talent" for such teams does not compute. Just sign some players from local high schools and be done with it. What difference does it make?

[Sader87]

It does make you wonder.... "what is the point???" ...actually.

I'm all for gender equity but there must be a better way to do this. Give straight academic/musical/artistic etc. scholarships to prospective women students to offset the # of football schollies???

[clenz]

This is one of the reasons I'm excited I had a daughter rather than a son.

I saw the talent level of girls in my area getting athletic scholarships that,imo, had no business getting one but there was no competition for them.

I'm not going to be a dad that forces get to do any sport, or any extra-curricular that she doesn't want to. However, if she wants to do a sport I will give her every advantage possible

Sent from my S4 using Tapatalk

[ccd494]

It does make you wonder.... "what is the point???" ...actually.

I'm all for gender equity but there must be a better to do this. Give straight academic/musical/artistic etc. scholarships to prospective women students to offset the # of football schollies???

Or realize that the fourth string punter doesn't need a scholarship to Florida.

[MplsBison]

It does make you wonder.... "what is the point???" ...actually.

I'm all for gender equity but there must be a better to do this. Give straight academic/musical/artistic etc. scholarships to prospective women students to offset the # of football schollies???

I've proposed this before: just give 85 females on campus a scholarship to go to school. Why does the scholarship have to have to have the condition of participation on an extra-curricular organization? Why are we saying that giving a female a scholarship for playing soccer (or the violin) simply because one was given to a male for playing football advances equality for women? Does providing women the opportunity to kick a ball (or play an instrument) really make things equal in the real world for them?

I would argue the most empowering thing that you can ever give a woman is a quality education. Why isn't that enough?

[Skjellyfetti]

It really is ridiculous.

I swam my freshman year of college at TCU. A girl from the team left after her sophomore year to transfer to Michigan State -- she was offered a scholarship on their crew team... with ZERO experience in the sport. They just knew she was an athletic girl that would likely be able to pick up the sport. Unreal....

[clenz]

It really is ridiculous.

I swam my freshman year of college at TCU. A girl from the team left after her sophomore year to transfer to Michigan State -- she was offered a scholarship on their crew team... with ZERO experience in the sport. They just knew she was an athletic girl that would likely be able to pick up the sport. Unreal....

Like I said...I'm going to give my daughter every giving possible tool to be good at any sport she picks...if I stop a couple grand in her youth on camps and what not it's more than made up for in the cost of tuition

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[MplsBison]

Like I said...I'm going to give my daughter every giving possible tool to be good at any sport she picks...if I stop a couple grand in her youth on camps and what not it's more than made up for in the cost of tuition

Sent from my S4 using Tapatalk

I'd invite you to consider two points first: A) the number of girls participating in high school girl's athletics teams vs. the number of women receiving athletic scholarships for women's sports at the NCAA level and B) the risk of injuries for women in athletics, particularly enhanced, sport-dependent risks (like ACL tears in girl's soccer).

I think you'd find that unless your daughter has particular aptitude in a sport the risk for injury, particularly brain injury, far outweighs the chances of her getting a scholarship.

Perhaps instead, if you invested that couple grand when she was born then with compound interest by the time she turns 18 you'll be able to fully fund her college anyway? Or maybe pay for piano/violin lessons, or dance, or arts - or whatever she likes?


Just a few thoughts.

[clenz]

1. Don't ever giving reply to me again

2. **** you

3. You invest the money on training to help create muscle memory to aid in avoiding injuries. Most of the injuries are due to improper training, techniques, muscle memory, etc. Not really any different than a guy I play basketball with in Thursday night's blowing his knee out a couple months ago. At 30, "minimal"exercise with almost no explosion/quick twitch training I'm shocked it doesn't happen to more of us...also see the number of injuries from slow pitch softball....

4. Look at the number of girls who are scholarship worthy...they are very very rare. That means a **** ton of girls get them that don't really "deserve them". Look at the number of playing sports then look at what percent get injuries that are serious.

Dance/performing arts scholarships don't exist in ant form that makes them a "real"option to seek...doesn't mean she won't get involved in them if she wants too.

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[MplsBison]

1. Don't ever giving reply to me again

2. **** you

3. You invest the money on training to help create muscle memory to aid in avoiding injuries. Most of the injuries are due to improper training, techniques, muscle memory, etc. Not really any different than a guy I play basketball with in Thursday night's blowing his knee out a couple months ago. At 30, "minimal"exercise with almost no explosion/quick twitch training I'm shocked it doesn't happen to more of us...also see the number of injuries from slow pitch softball....

4. Look at the number of girls who are scholarship worthy...they are very very rare. That means a **** ton of girls get them that don't really "deserve them". Look at the number of playing sports then look at what percent get injuries that are serious.

Dance/performing arts scholarships don't exist in ant form that makes them a "real"option to seek...doesn't mean she won't get involved in them if she wants too.

Sent from my S4 using Tapatalk

Your first two points are entirely inappropriate and I will be reporting the post.

As for your point 3, I disagree that enhancing "muscle memory" decreases injuries. Certain it enhances sports performance, but the more times you step onto the field or court (for practice or games) you're only rolling the dice another time. Eventually, you will be injured.

I don't disagree with your point 4, but this point is not relevant to the point I was making. I was making the point that the number of girls who do receive athletic scholarships (regardless if they're "worthy" of them) is still a small fraction of the total number of girls participating on teams at the high school age (club and school teams).

Therefore, I was only suggesting that the money you'd spend on camps might be better spent elsewhere. But of course, you will do what you think is best for your own. That's all anyone can ask of you. (maybe take a chill pill, as well?)

[gotts]

I'd invite you to consider two points first: A) the number of girls participating in high school girl's athletics teams vs. the number of women receiving athletic scholarships for women's sports at the NCAA level and B) the risk of injuries for women in athletics, particularly enhanced, sport-dependent risks (like ACL tears in girl's soccer).

I think you'd find that unless your daughter has particular aptitude in a sport the risk for injury, particularly brain injury, far outweighs the chances of her getting a scholarship.

Perhaps instead, if you invested that couple grand when she was born then with compound interest by the time she turns 18 you'll be able to fully fund her college anyway? Or maybe pay for piano/violin lessons, or dance, or arts - or whatever she likes?


Just a few thoughts.

Do you have kids?

[Sader87]

I think the "ease" of which hs girls can get athletic scholarships for soccer, field hockey, lacrosse, softball etc is a bit over stated in this article and thread. I've taught/coached (guys hoop and tennis) at a fairly strong athletic high school for nearly 20 years and can think of only about 8-10 or so of girls who received a D1 scholarship in all those sports in total over those years.

I'm not saying it's a "fool's gold" and good luck to Clenz and his daughter....just that it isn't as easy as it seems/sounds here.

[clenz]

I think the "ease" of which hs girls can get athletic scholarships for soccer, field hockey, lacrosse, softball etc is a bit over stated in this article and thread. I've taught/coached (guys hoop and tennis) at a fairly strong athletic high school for nearly 20 years and can think of only about 8-10 or so of girls who received a D1 scholarship in all those sports in total over those years.

I'm not saying it's a "fool's gold" and good luck to Clenz and his daughter....just that it isn't as easy as it seems/sounds here.

You do realize there is not only d1 scholarships but d2, naia, juco, etc...

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[Sader87]

You do realize there is not only d1 scholarships but d2, naia, juco, etc...

Sent from my S4 using Tapatalk

Very true clenz.....in total though, there is a lot more schollie $$$ out there for academics.

[clenz]

Very true clenz.....in total though, there is a lot more schollie $$$ out there for academics.
It's not like I'm going to not study and only practice.

My wife graduated with a 3.96 undergrad GPA and 3.98 GPA. I have been accepted into MA programs (if I follow through I'm not sure). Academics/intelligence is stressed at out house all of the time.

We aren't going to qualify for any "need" based aid because we are a white, middle class (with rather high earning potential that we haven't reached yet due to age/experience obviously), family living in a "newer/affluent" part of the city we live in.

There is a lot more academic money, but any penny we can help her potentially earn is well worth any investment on our part - ESPECIALLY if it is doing something she loves. Like I said, I'm not going to force her to do a damn thing athletically she doesn't want to do - I simply said I'm going to give her every possible tool to further herself. I didn't get a single penny of financial aid going through college - didn't "qualify" for academic aid or financial need. I turned down the athletic scholarships I had earned to play football at a D3 (ended up only playing a year and transferring to UNI). I know all too well about not having enough help to get through college - especially after the fact when those loan repayments eat a **** ton of your paycheck before it's even in your account.

There are 35 colleges in the state of Iowa that offer football. I know that is a male sport BUT...realize not every school offers football. Meaning there are close to 45ish colleges in the state of Iowa (all within a 4.5-5 hour drive) to earn a possible scholarship at. That isn't including the fact we live only and hour and a half from Illinois, 2 hours from Missouri, 1.5 from Wisconsin and 2 from Minnesota.

I went to a high school of 110 kids 9-12. My high school girls basketball team has 9 players on college rosters on scholarship right now in NAIA, JUCO, or D2 since 2010. They aren't even "that good". There are just so many schools in the area that girls are getting them because rosters need to be filled and there is a HUGE separation between great and good and good and everyone else in womens athletics.

[Bill]

Clenz

I hope things do work out for your family, and there are exceptions to every rule, but I'm pretty sure a 2012 report from the NCAA stated something like only 2.5% of all HS athletes get any form of athletic scholarship, averaging about $13,000 a year (and that figure includes the free rides). As you know, only basketball, volleyball, and tennis - and gymnastics - can even get full rides... I guess what I'm trying to say is that it might be harder than the picture you are painting.

Still looking for that report - will get back.

[MplsBison]

It's not like I'm going to not study and only practice.

My wife graduated with a 3.96 undergrad GPA and 3.98 GPA. I have been accepted into MA programs (if I follow through I'm not sure). Academics/intelligence is stressed at out house all of the time.

We aren't going to qualify for any "need" based aid because we are a white, middle class (with rather high earning potential that we haven't reached yet due to age/experience obviously), family living in a "newer/affluent" part of the city we live in.

There is a lot more academic money, but any penny we can help her potentially earn is well worth any investment on our part - ESPECIALLY if it is doing something she loves. Like I said, I'm not going to force her to do a damn thing athletically she doesn't want to do - I simply said I'm going to give her every possible tool to further herself. I didn't get a single penny of financial aid going through college - didn't "qualify" for academic aid or financial need. I turned down the athletic scholarships I had earned to play football at a D3 (ended up only playing a year and transferring to UNI). I know all too well about not having enough help to get through college - especially after the fact when those loan repayments eat a **** ton of your paycheck before it's even in your account.

There are 35 colleges in the state of Iowa that offer football. I know that is a male sport BUT...realize not every school offers football. Meaning there are close to 45ish colleges in the state of Iowa (all within a 4.5-5 hour drive) to earn a possible scholarship at. That isn't including the fact we live only and hour and a half from Illinois, 2 hours from Missouri, 1.5 from Wisconsin and 2 from Minnesota.

I went to a high school of 110 kids 9-12. My high school girls basketball team has 9 players on college rosters on scholarship right now in NAIA, JUCO, or D2 since 2010. They aren't even "that good". There are just so many schools in the area that girls are getting them because rosters need to be filled and there is a HUGE separation between great and good and good and everyone else in womens athletics.

All I'm saying (and sounds like others as well):

Scenario 1 - you pay $2000 for youth sport camps for your daughter, she develops into an above average player, earns an athletic scholarship that will save you >($2000 + inflation).

Scenario 2 - you pay $2000 for youth sports camps for your daughter, she tears her ACL, gets multiple concussions, etc., quits the sport before she graduates high school and is accepting to college having to pay the full cost minus federal aid (as you predicted)

Probability of scenario 2 >> probability of scenario 1

[MplsBison]

Do you have kids?

Sure. Does that satisfy you?

Any other irrelevant questions?

[dgtw]

It really is ridiculous.

I swam my freshman year of college at TCU. A girl from the team left after her sophomore year to transfer to Michigan State -- she was offered a scholarship on their crew team... with ZERO experience in the sport. They just knew she was an athletic girl that would likely be able to pick up the sport. Unreal....

I lived in Knoxville when Tennessee started their crew team. They took out an ad in the paper recruiting girls saying no rowing experience was necessary.

[PAllen]

It's not just about College scholarships though. As the article states, recruited atheletes get preferred treatment. There is also the admissions/financial aspect of the private school system if you are so inclined. The folks who used to live next to my Mom's place built a quarter soccer field (for their son) and tennis court (for their daughter) in their back yard. The kids loved playing their chosen sports and practiced all the time. They both got free rides to elite prep schools (Ivy feeders) in the area. I know they both went on to college, but the parents moved away right after the daughter graduated HS, so I don't know where, or under what circumstances, but they were both still playing their sport. College scholarship or not, they got an excellent HS education ($35K/yr) with at least an in to the Ivy of their choice, all for free.