Keeler Says Sam Houston Considering FBS

[superman7515]

Didn't see this in the other threads, just thought it interesting that they obviously brought up in the interview with him that they were considering FBS...

http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20140124/SPORTS07/301240040/Sam-Houston-State-great-situation-K-C-Keeler?nclick_check=1


“We really feel like we hit a home run here,” said Keeler, referring to his and wife Janice’s impressions after their recent visit. “There’s a lot in place. They’re talking about maybe going FBS in the future – and that’s something, if they go they go, if they don’t they don’t. I’ll leave that up to the decision-makers. But to have an opportunity to recruit this territory and win national championships, I can’t tell you how fired up I am.”

[Professor Chaos]

So the same team that has to have their Special Teams Coach pulling double duty as their Equipment Manager and has their Director of Football Operations also coaching their Tight Ends Coach is gonna head to the FBS?

http://66.147.244.204/~chocolh2/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/guinnessbrilliant.jpg

[katstrapper]

Didn't see this in the other threads, just thought it interesting that they obviously brought up in the interview with him that they were considering FBS...

http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20140124/SPORTS07/301240040/Sam-Houston-State-great-situation-K-C-Keeler?nclick_check=1

Sam Houston has been talking about that for the last 5 years. It was the same talk when Coach Fritz was hired. Dont listen to that part of the conversation. SHSU is NO WHERE NEAR moving up. Facilities need major upgrades, fundraising needs major upgrades, the athletic department needs sweeping changes. The current Ath Director has no vision and is VERY WEAK in fundraising and attracting big money donors. If they dropped that line on KCK, it wont take him long to realize that the Ath Director was full of bull. Until Bobby Williams is shown the door or he decides to leave, SHSU wont be moving up anytime soon.
Anyway, good to know KCK is excited about taking this program to the championship once again.

[PAllen]

KCK would be a horrible coach for an FBS program. His MO has always been to rely on high impact transfers who take advantage of not having to sit out a year. He has done quite well with that MO, but it will fall apart quickly once these transfers would need to sit.

[superman7515]

KCK would be a horrible coach for an FBS program.

Absolutely. Just look at Jim Tressel, the guy never won a game after he couldn't take in transfers like he did at Youngstown State.

[PAllen]

Absolutely. Just look at Jim Tressel, the guy never won a game after he couldn't take in transfers like he did at Youngstown State.

Apples and Oranges Supe

[superman7515]

How so?

[MSUBobcat]

Apples and Oranges Supe


How so?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dx32b5igLwA

[Tubakat2014]

"In the future". Yeah, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that SHSU will move up sometime between now and the end of civilization. Closer to the end of civilization, of course. Our athletic department needs to think like an FBS program- and even that could only elevate us to the top tier of the FCS in facilities and attendance. In order to truly make a move to the FBS worth it, it's going to take a lot of time and financial support. I'd bet everything I own on Keeler not being coach by the time we finally make the move.

I'd really like to see us actually win a championship before we move up.

[RabidRabbit]

Does SHSU have the support levels of UTSA or TX ST? Can they get there? Because it would appear that SHSU would be a tough move-up candidate. But is this any different than Lamar dreams of FBS? LA-Monroe or LA Tech could also be comparible. South Alabama also.

IMHO, if Montana, Idaho, NMSU, NDSU or SDSU believe that FBS were the place to be, that any of these flagship or Land-grants would be better positioned to be FBS. Idaho is demonstrating that FBS is no panacea, and is more of a problem than it's worth. App St., JMU, Ga Southern are good examples of where it may make sense to move up.

[katstrapper]

"In the future". Yeah, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that SHSU will move up sometime between now and the end of civilization. Closer to the end of civilization, of course. Our athletic department needs to think like an FBS program- and even that could only elevate us to the top tier of the FCS in facilities and attendance. In order to truly make a move to the FBS worth it, it's going to take a lot of time and financial support. I'd bet everything I own on Keeler not being coach by the time we finally make the move.

I'd really like to see us actually win a championship before we move up.

I will bet that KCK sticks in Huntsville no more than 3 or 4 years. He will get a gut full of Bobby Williams and decide its time to go and land a gig back on the east coast.

[bluehenbillk]

I will bet that KCK sticks in Huntsville no more than 3 or 4 years. He will get a gut full of Bobby Williams and decide its time to go and land a gig back on the east coast.

I don't know about that. KC was loyal at Delaware to a fault. Granted he played at Delaware & called it his dream job but one of the many reasons he was let go was his persistence with pushing an administration for upgrades that were near or at the bottom of their priority list.

[FormerPokeCenter]

La Tech had a tough year, but on balance, they've fared better than ULM or ULL...

[Grizalltheway]

How so?

Keeler ain't no Jim Tressel. Sorry.

[superman7515]

Keeler ain't no Jim Tressel. Sorry.

Never claimed he was, Tressel had multiple NCAA violations. But the point of the matter was that PAllen said "KCK would be a horrible coach for an FBS program" because he couldn't rely on transfers. I pointed out that they said the same thing about Tressel, which he said was apples and oranges, and I asked how so.

[MplsBison]

So the same team that has to have their Special Teams Coach pulling double duty as their Equipment Manager and has their Director of Football Operations also coaching their Tight Ends Coach is gonna head to the FBS?



I can find absolutely zero fault in any NCAA Division I athletic program that fields a varsity football team wanting to provide the maximum number of scholarships to football student-athletes. That's the only impetus that needs to be considered.

If the students vote to fund the increased cost with increased student fees, then nothing more can be said about the financials of the move. If you want nice things, you choose to pay for them.

[TexasTerror]

I am still convinced that SHSU can/will find the money it needs to go FBS within the next few years, especially if the enrollment continues to grow and the President in place is able to execute her vision...

I am a big supporter of the Southland Conference, but from my spot as an alum, I can see why Sam Houston State people may want to get out of the Southland. From an academic standpoint, our institution is at the top of the league academically amongst football schools.

The La. schools are all in the state of La.'s bottom tier and amongst the Texas schools, SHSU is above SFA and above Lamar. I say this without a doubt as the debate could be made that SHSU was equal or above TXST based on the factors used by the Texas State University System going back to when I was a student a decade ago. If academics do play a significant role, than getting out of the Southland should and could be a priority.

[MplsBison]

I am still convinced that SHSU can/will find the money it needs to go FBS within the next few years, especially if the enrollment continues to grow and the President in place is able to execute her vision...

I am a big supporter of the Southland Conference, but from my spot as an alum, I can see why Sam Houston State people may want to get out of the Southland. From an academic standpoint, our institution is at the top of the league academically amongst football schools.

The La. schools are all in the state of La.'s bottom tier and amongst the Texas schools, SHSU is above SFA and above Lamar. I say this without a doubt as the debate could be made that SHSU was equal or above TXST based on the factors used by the Texas State University System going back to when I was a student a decade ago. If academics do play a significant role, than getting out of the Southland should and could be a priority.

When you say "find the money", it sounds like donations - which are typically for one-time payments and therefore used to build facilities (unless it's a huge donation such that the payments from the investment of the gift (endowment) are significant).

The "operating costs", if you will, of moving higher in the classifications of the NCAA are yearly recurring costs. To continually fund higher costs like that for athletics, you really need the students to be involved and to get them to agree to foot the bill with higher fees. That is, assuming additional revenues from the move wouldn't pay those costs (which I assume they ultimately wouldn't, on a move from the Southland to Sun Belt or CUSA).

[Mr. C]

Apples and Oranges Supe
At least K.C. has run a clean program, unlike the Teflon Don. I think Keeler would do fine coaching at any level. He was actually working with the NFL Films guys this season, teaching them some of the ins and out of the read option and the spread. Also, don't forget he has already been very successful as a championship coach at two levels for Rowan and Delaware. He knows how to build programs.

[Mr. C]

And the idea of Sam Houston State moving to FBS ... about as dumb as all of the other schools that have done it that are not named Boise State.

[BisonBacker]

Does SHSU have the support levels of UTSA or TX ST? Can they get there? Because it would appear that SHSU would be a tough move-up candidate. But is this any different than Lamar dreams of FBS? LA-Monroe or LA Tech could also be comparible. South Alabama also.

IMHO, if Montana, Idaho, NMSU, NDSU or SDSU believe that FBS were the place to be, that any of these flagship or Land-grants would be better positioned to be FBS. Idaho is demonstrating that FBS is no panacea, and is more of a problem than it's worth. App St., JMU, Ga Southern are good examples of where it may make sense to move up.

You got it rabbid. As much as I don't want to see NDSU left behind and I believe in our AD and president as they understand the importance of a successful sports program and what it means to a university I don't see us ready to make that move. Not to mention we are hamstrung by location. Not that that's a deal breaker by any means but it is an obstacle. I'd see more likely the chance that say Montana NDSU and some other regional universities that have the desire to make the move do it as a group and have a new conference. The likely hood of that happening anytime let alone anytime soon is anyone's guess. It's much easier said than done. This doesn't even begin to cover the topic of no national championships opportunities in football any longer. To me bowl games have no appeal.

[lionsrking2]

Sam isn't going FBS anytime soon. They just hired a new staff and he's dangling the FBS card to see if he can give recruiting a shot in the arm down the stretch. Kids fall for it all the time.

[TexasTerror]

Sam isn't going FBS anytime soon. They just hired a new staff and he's dangling the FBS card to see if he can give recruiting a shot in the arm down the stretch. Kids fall for it all the time.

If the opportunity arises, SHSU will jump. Is it a dangling carrot? Probably so, but we all are aware of meetings that SHSU administration has had in the last year with leagues outside of the Southland.


And the idea of Sam Houston State moving to FBS ... about as dumb as all of the other schools that have done it that are not named Boise State.

SHSU would prefer to stay FCS, but as I said above - if the opportunity exists, they'll make the move. If the decision comes, it'd likely be the feeling of those in power positions that it'd be as much about leaving behind certain schools as it would potential for enhanced 'exposure', funds, etc.


When you say "find the money", it sounds like donations - which are typically for one-time payments and therefore used to build facilities (unless it's a huge donation such that the payments from the investment of the gift (endowment) are significant).

The "operating costs", if you will, of moving higher in the classifications of the NCAA are yearly recurring costs. To continually fund higher costs like that for athletics, you really need the students to be involved and to get them to agree to foot the bill with higher fees. That is, assuming additional revenues from the move wouldn't pay those costs (which I assume they ultimately wouldn't, on a move from the Southland to Sun Belt or CUSA).

Our former Southland rivals - TXST and UTSA - basically funded a move to FBS on the backs of their students. SHSU's student population continues to rise. In about 12 years, we've seen it go from about 12k to a shade under 20k. If SHSU continues to grow at that percentage, they'll be able to duplicate that effort in next 5-to-10 years.

[lionsrking2]

If the opportunity arises, SHSU will jump. Is it a dangling carrot? Probably so, but we all are aware of meetings that SHSU administration has had in the last year with leagues outside of the Southland.




It's not going to arise.

[TexasTerror]

It's not going to arise.

Maybe... maybe not. Not saying it will, but if it were... SHSU is gone.

[BEAR]

I am a big supporter of the Southland Conference, but from my spot as an alum, I can see why Sam Houston State people may want to get out of the Southland. From an academic standpoint, our institution is at the top of the league academically amongst football schools.


Hmmmm.... let's see. If I read them correctly then out of 8 football playing schools SHSU faired this: (Noting that there are only spring and fall honor rolls which indicate how well top students are doing for each school. )

FALL 2013
UCA- 113 honorees 24 perfect 4.0
SFA- 92 honorees 15 perfect 4.0
McNeese- 92 honorees 10 perfect 4.0
SLU- 85 honorees 15 perfect 4.0
Lamar- 81 honorees 23 perfect 4.0
SHSU- 75 honorees 19 perfect 4.0
Nicholls- 70 honorees 13 perfect 4.0

Spring 2013- SHSU 4th place
Fall 2012- SHSU 6th place
Spring 2012- SHSU 6th place

Who was it again that told you SHSU was at the top of the league in academics? That smoke must be thick with your donors.

[Hammerhead]

Most schools also need a booster club that donates money year after year. It's debatable whether or not NDSU's Team Makers club could increase donations enough to make FBS financially feasible.


When you say "find the money", it sounds like donations - which are typically for one-time payments and therefore used to build facilities (unless it's a huge donation such that the payments from the investment of the gift (endowment) are significant).

The "operating costs", if you will, of moving higher in the classifications of the NCAA are yearly recurring costs. To continually fund higher costs like that for athletics, you really need the students to be involved and to get them to agree to foot the bill with higher fees. That is, assuming additional revenues from the move wouldn't pay those costs (which I assume they ultimately wouldn't, on a move from the Southland to Sun Belt or CUSA).

[TexasTerror]

Who was it again that told you SHSU was at the top of the league in academics? That smoke must be thick with your donors.

Believe you have a misunderstanding.

The information you provided was related to the student-athletes and their rate of success under the Southland Conference award program.

That information does not correlate to the academic standing of the University as a whole and I do not think anyone would base academic standing of an entire institution based on the student-athletes' honors from the conference office.

It would be like asking whether the University of Texas compares itself academically with Texas A&M-Texasarkana. A little extreme, but trying to get a point across.

BTW - not that this matters to the subject, but SHSU student-athletes as a whole have registered over a 3.0 grade-point average in spring 2013 and spring 2012. Can't recall fall 2013 (if it came out) or the fall 2012 numbers. Really impressed by the job that is done by the academic support group in Huntsville.

[BEAR]

When your statement is this:
From an academic standpoint, our institution is at the top of the league academically amongst football schools.
Then it appears to refer to the academics among athletes in the 8 football playing schools. Sorry, but I can't see where it implies overall academics of all students at the university. I also drew that conclusion from the fact this is a football message board that involves sports and student athletes with typically NO access to the general student population's grade point average. If SHSU is kind enough to reveal its high standing of GPA of the general student population along with its student athletes, that's GREAT! Where can I find that information out for the 8 SLC football playing schools? You must have gotten it from somewhere, some source. I ask because I want to know where my university stands. Thanks!

[TexasTerror]

When your statement is this:
From an academic standpoint, our institution is at the top of the league academically amongst football schools.
Then it appears to refer to the academics among athletes in the 8 football playing schools. Sorry, but I can't see where it implies overall academics of all students at the university. I also drew that conclusion from the fact this is a football message board that involves sports and student athletes with typically NO access to the general student population's grade point average. If SHSU is kind enough to reveal its high standing of GPA of the general student population along with its student athletes, that's GREAT! Where can I find that information out for the 8 SLC football playing schools? You must have gotten it from somewhere, some source. I ask because I want to know where my university stands. Thanks!

Still missing the point...

1) We're on the topic of realignment. A great deal of this realignment situation is not just about who you would like to associate with athletically, but who you would like to associate with academically. Does the University of Texas (a flagship academic institution in its state) want to be in a conference with a Nicholls State (a school in the bottom tier of the University system with fellow 'regional' institutions)? Yes, an extreme example - but it is what it is.

2) You do not determine an academic standing of a school based on the grade-point average, whether you are comparing general student body populations or student-athletes. This involves amount of post-graduate work available (masters and doctoral programs available), research monies coming into the school and other areas deemed by academics as defining marks. You'll note some of the conference realignment talk circled around what academic group certain schools were in. Heard of the Association of American Universities? It was a big to-do when the Big 10 looked outside of the AAU (see list at https://www.aau.edu/about/default.aspx?id=5476) at Nebraska and why Rutgers/Maryland (outside of TV-related reasons) were chosen.

3) The Southland Conference has changed significantly in recent years. The "kinds of schools" are much different, especially with the entrance of private schools. The Southland has not had a private school in decades before ORU - then ACU, HBU + UIW - came in. This has been the cause for multiple issues in some leagues, even at the low-major level (which the Southland is). In the case of Sam Houston State, does the public institution of nearly 20k students want to be 'associated' athletically (and/or academically) with private schools with enrollments much smaller? Or does Sam Houston State want to be back with schools like Texas State-San Marcos (with over 25k students, public institution) and Louisiana-Lafayette (16k students and considered in the 'second tier' of the La. tier system with La Tech and New Orleans)?

I hope the above explains things properly to you... Sam Houston State is not the school it was a decade ago, whether you are looking at enrollment, post-graduate degrees, research monies and even... athletic budget (the gap is growing in the Southland). These are all factors when it comes to realignment, which has plenty to do with academics as it does with athletics.

[BEAR]

Let's say SHSU and UCA leave the Southland in 10 years for let's say the Sunbelt or its equivalent. Adding no further schools to the mix what do you think the Southland would look like academically? The same? Vastly different? Who would be on top? McNeese?

[TexasTerror]

Let's say SHSU and UCA leave the Southland in 10 years for let's say the Sunbelt or its equivalent. Adding no further schools to the mix what do you think the Southland would look like academically? The same? Vastly different? Who would be on top? McNeese?

Tough to say.

Amongst football schools - academically - McNeese is considered to be on the same 'plane' as Nicholls, Northwestern State and Southeastern Louisiana. Significant changes to the tier system develop over time and with the current La. education system, I do not see those schools moving up the food chain. That is not a negative strike against them, but the three tier system in La. has been pretty consistent for some time.

The Texas public schools can see changes more rapidly and a large part of that does involve new programs which thereby turn into more research monies and increased enrollment. Though most of that starts with leadership and the decisions made. Many alums credit their Universities' rises & falls to decisions made by Presidents whether it was adding/eliminating football, changing conferences, leadership position decisions, consolidating colleges/departments, removing majors and response to crisis (see major events like Katrina/Rita in case of SLC institutions).

[MplsBison]

And the idea of Sam Houston State moving to FBS ... about as dumb as all of the other schools that have done it that are not named Boise State.

Then by implication you view football scholarships as "dumb".

[MplsBison]

If the opportunity arises, SHSU will jump. Is it a dangling carrot? Probably so, but we all are aware of meetings that SHSU administration has had in the last year with leagues outside of the Southland.



SHSU would prefer to stay FCS, but as I said above - if the opportunity exists, they'll make the move. If the decision comes, it'd likely be the feeling of those in power positions that it'd be as much about leaving behind certain schools as it would potential for enhanced 'exposure', funds, etc.



Our former Southland rivals - TXST and UTSA - basically funded a move to FBS on the backs of their students. SHSU's student population continues to rise. In about 12 years, we've seen it go from about 12k to a shade under 20k. If SHSU continues to grow at that percentage, they'll be able to duplicate that effort in next 5-to-10 years.

Thanks for the info. I'm guessing most students would be in favor of supporting FBS with higher fees. Texans love football.

[MplsBison]

Most schools also need a booster club that donates money year after year. It's debatable whether or not NDSU's Team Makers club could increase donations enough to make FBS financially feasible.

Not an invalid point, but I'm guessing NDSU's booster club donates maybe $2million a year out of an athletic budget that is approaching $20million.

I would love to be shown wrong, but I'm guessing NDSU's athletic department gets 50% to 75% of the money it uses to pay the bills from student fees, with the rest coming from donations (like those from TeamMakers), sales (tickets, concessions, direct merchandise) and royalties for third party merchandise.

[MplsBison]

Hmmmm.... let's see. If I read them correctly then out of 8 football playing schools SHSU faired this: (Noting that there are only spring and fall honor rolls which indicate how well top students are doing for each school. )

FALL 2013
UCA- 113 honorees 24 perfect 4.0
SFA- 92 honorees 15 perfect 4.0
McNeese- 92 honorees 10 perfect 4.0
SLU- 85 honorees 15 perfect 4.0
Lamar- 81 honorees 23 perfect 4.0
SHSU- 75 honorees 19 perfect 4.0
Nicholls- 70 honorees 13 perfect 4.0

Spring 2013- SHSU 4th place
Fall 2012- SHSU 6th place
Spring 2012- SHSU 6th place

Who was it again that told you SHSU was at the top of the league in academics? That smoke must be thick with your donors.

No offense, but these numbers are absolutely irrelevant to what he is talking about.

Often - whether right or wrong - "academics" is mostly about the perception of the academic reputation of both the school and its associated schools, by people looking from the outside. If SHSU is trying to change its peer group via switching conferences, then the academic perception of the Southland schools is a valid concern regardless of what numbers you pull up.

[BEAR]

No offense, but these numbers are absolutely irrelevant to what he is talking about.

Often - whether right or wrong - "academics" is mostly about the perception of the academic reputation of both the school and its associated schools, by people looking from the outside. If SHSU is trying to change its peer group via switching conferences, then the academic perception of the Southland schools is a valid concern regardless of what numbers you pull up.

So Sam moving has these requirements:
FBS
High academic accomplishments, regardless of actual numbers, to satisfy academic reputation
Proximity to school, no long road trips fans can't attend
Cost to remain part of it for the long term (regardless of the fact upper level FBS schools, BCS as they may, most likely will break off anyway and form an even higher level than they already are thus putting Sam back where they started)
Anything else?

So when Sam finds that conference will that conference accept them based on their academic reputation? Who will that be? Sunbelt?

And before you think I'm bashing Sam, I'm not. UCA isn't a research school. We harbor few masters programs and few doctorate programs but our reputation for graduation and retention is well known. But its Arkansas so it will most likely never reach the level of funding or academic status as lower level Texas schools, I know that.

[TexasTerror]

Thanks for the info. I'm guessing most students would be in favor of supporting FBS with higher fees. Texans love football.

The students at Sam Houston State have supported an increase in fees for athletics on multiple occasions. If you told them it would mean competing against XYZ and that they would see ABC with - you would get the support. The Student Government has been very pro-athletics in the last few years.


So Sam moving has these requirements:
FBS
High academic accomplishments, regardless of actual numbers, to satisfy academic reputation
Proximity to school, no long road trips fans can't attend
Cost to remain part of it for the long term (regardless of the fact upper level FBS schools, BCS as they may, most likely will break off anyway and form an even higher level than they already are thus putting Sam back where they started)
Anything else?

So when Sam finds that conference will that conference accept them based on their academic reputation? Who will that be? Sunbelt?

And before you think I'm bashing Sam, I'm not. UCA isn't a research school. We harbor few masters programs and few doctorate programs but our reputation for graduation and retention is well known. But its Arkansas so it will most likely never reach the level of funding or academic status as lower level Texas schools, I know that.

Not concerned about sustaining costs long-term as much as I am building the appropriate facilities (football is biggest concern with soccer/track & field as a secondary - baseball, softball, basketball are suitable for Sun Belt) and actually getting an invitation.

[Wallace]

The students at Sam Houston State have supported an increase in fees for athletics on multiple occasions. If you told them it would mean competing against XYZ and that they would see ABC with - you would get the support. The Student Government has been very pro-athletics in the last few years.

Not concerned about sustaining costs long-term as much as I am building the appropriate facilities (football is biggest concern with soccer/track & field as a secondary - baseball, softball, basketball are suitable for Sun Belt) and actually getting an invitation.

It does seem this is truth about the fees. Facilities is also a reasonable priority. FBS is not tomorrow at SHSU but "in the plan" is a no-brainer.

[MplsBison]

So Sam moving has these requirements:
FBS
High academic accomplishments, regardless of actual numbers, to satisfy academic reputation
Proximity to school, no long road trips fans can't attend
Cost to remain part of it for the long term (regardless of the fact upper level FBS schools, BCS as they may, most likely will break off anyway and form an even higher level than they already are thus putting Sam back where they started)
Anything else?

So when Sam finds that conference will that conference accept them based on their academic reputation? Who will that be? Sunbelt?

And before you think I'm bashing Sam, I'm not. UCA isn't a research school. We harbor few masters programs and few doctorate programs but our reputation for graduation and retention is well known. But its Arkansas so it will most likely never reach the level of funding or academic status as lower level Texas schools, I know that.

I'll defer to TexasTerror's post. It seems very reasonable for me to see SHSU move up to the Sun Belt - if they're invited. That's the main if left in the equation, in my mind.

[FargoBison]

Not an invalid point, but I'm guessing NDSU's booster club donates maybe $2million a year out of an athletic budget that is approaching $20million.

I would love to be shown wrong, but I'm guessing NDSU's athletic department gets 50% to 75% of the money it uses to pay the bills from student fees, with the rest coming from donations (like those from TeamMakers), sales (tickets, concessions, direct merchandise) and royalties for third party merchandise.

I think the number was $2.8 million this year.

NDSU's total subsidy(school funds + student fees) is 43.16%. Only 6.32% of that is student fees.

Those numbers are from 2012 btw. The Booster club raised $2.6 million that year.

[MplsBison]

I think the number was $2.8 million this year.

NDSU's total subsidy(school funds + student fees) is 43.16%. Only 6.32% of that is student fees.

Those numbers are from 2012 btw. The Booster club raised $2.6 million that year.

If true, then I'm pleasantly surprised! By including the source of your numbers, you would remove any suspicion of mine. But I suspect you're correct based on the precision.

I don't like that school funds are spent on athletics. That means tax dollars and tuition dollars, which are meant to fund the school, are ending up in the athletic department coffers. That's wrong on principle, for me. Student fees should be paying 100% of the remaining costs that the athletic department can't cover from their own revenue streams. Athletics is a purely extra-curricular enterprise, that the students must desire to have and therefore support.

[FargoBison]

If true, then I'm pleasantly surprised! By including the source of your numbers, you would remove any suspicion of mine. But I suspect you're correct based on the precision.

I don't like that school funds are spent on athletics. That means tax dollars and tuition dollars, which are meant to fund the school, are ending up in the athletic department coffers. That's wrong on principle, for me. Student fees should be paying 100% of the remaining costs that the athletic department can't cover from their own revenue streams. Athletics is a purely extra-curricular enterprise, that the students must desire to have and therefore support.

Here are a few links of interest...

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/schools/finances/

http://www.prairiebizmag.com/media/full/jpg/2013/10/11/101113.n.ff.subsidies.jpg

http://www.prairiebizmag.com/event/article/id/16327/

[Mr. C]

Then by implication you view football scholarships as "dumb".
What a ridiculous argument. The troll crawls out of his hole to express his warped views again. We all know you are gung-ho for having schools like NDSU go to FBS. No one said anything about not wanting athletic scholarships. I'm fine with all these schools splitting 63 of them any way they like. But as has been state repeatedly and backed by studies, the teams that move from FCS to FBS and are in the bottom quadrant in spending stay in the bottom quadrant in spending. There is a direct correlation between spending and success at the FBS level. The goals of cost-containment major college football still work for FCS.

[MplsBison]

Here are a few links of interest...

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/schools/finances/



http://www.prairiebizmag.com/event/article/id/16327/

Excellent post! Thank you

NDSU's student fee for athletics should look a lot closer to what UND's fee is at.

[MplsBison]

What a ridiculous argument. The troll crawls out of his hole to express his warped views again. We all know you are gung-ho for having schools like NDSU go to FBS. No one said anything about not wanting athletic scholarships. I'm fine with all these schools splitting 63 of them any way they like. But as has been state repeatedly and backed by studies, the teams that move from FCS to FBS and are in the bottom quadrant in spending stay in the bottom quadrant in spending. There is a direct correlation between spending and success at the FBS level. The goals of cost-containment major college football still work for FCS.

A) Teams that move from FCS to FBS increase their scholarships provided from around 63 to around 85.

Thus, since you're not only against any remaining FCS team moving to FBS but actually want to see some FBS teams dragged down to FCS, you're against those additional scholarships.


B) You just contradicted yourself. First you said that spending equals success, then you immediately followed that by saying major college football works within a cost-containment basis.

Which is it?

[Bisonoline]

A) Teams that move from FCS to FBS increase their scholarships provided from around 63 to around 85.

Thus, since you're not only against any remaining FCS team moving to FBS but actually want to see some FBS teams dragged down to FCS, you're against those additional scholarships.


B) You just contradicted yourself. First you said that spending equals success, then you immediately followed that by saying major college football works within a cost-containment basis.

Which is it?

I think you need to go back and re-read his post. How you came up with your assertions from his post is really a stretch.

[Wallace]

I think you need to go back and re-read his post. How you came up with your assertions from his post is really a stretch.

it's not a stretch at all, in fact it is exact... if you have the football money and go fbs (and can keep spending) then no problem. If you are responsible and desire cost-containment then fcs is best.

[Bisonoline]

it's not a stretch at all, in fact it is exact... if you have the football money and go fbs (and can keep spending) then no problem. If you are responsible and desire cost-containment then fcs is best.

I totally understand what MR C was saying and dont find that a stretch at all. Its Mpls interpretation--assertion of his post are whats in question.