Coaching quality -- IAA vs other classifications

[PapaBear]

If you believe in the "follow the money" approach, you'd assume 1A has the best coaches and that things decline from there. But that's not necessarily correct. In academia, for example, it's often said the best teachers are in elementary school and the worst are college professors. (We're talking teaching skill, here, not core knowledge.)

I happen to believe IAA might just have the best true coaches in college football, especially head guys and top assistants. There seem to be fewer career climbers at this level, and more guys who truly love their universities and their players, while also knowing the game and possessing great teaching and motivational skills.

Not intending any disprespect to IA coaches and certainly not ignoring career-stable guys like Paterno. But old-school teachers like him seem to be the exception at their level.

Curious how you guys feel about this.

[bison95]

Definately agree. The "big time" programs seldom look down when making a new hire. They feel they must create some hype for the fans. Look at the difference between Ohio State and Nebraska. Both had good coaches that maintained top 15 status. Both schools wanted to take it back to a championship level. OSU looked down, and Tressel took them up instantly. Nebraska grabbed "Tommy" Callhan he was looking for a steak in a bulls ass, and took a 10 & 3 team into the crapper of the big 12 north. Great coaches are in the D-1AA, II, and III they just need some jack off AD to see them as great coaches, not looking for the next great thing.

[eaglefan452]

I think there are many I-A coaches who at some point in their careers, had a coaching position at a I-AA school. Maybe not a head coaching position, but a position nonetheless. I do think you are on to something, the I-A coaches who had success at I-AA schools seem to being doing pretty well in I-A e.g. Jim Tressell, Paul Johnson, Joe Glenn (by the way, great article on Glenn in the recent Sporting News).

[Ronbo]

Funny you bring this up, it's a sore spot at Montana. We can't keep a Coach here as the Program is on the radar bigtime as a training program for IA Coaches. Now Bobby Hauck is a hot item.

From the Sporting News. http://www.sportingnews.com/exclusives/20050616/626096.html


They've got it, too

By Matt Hayes - SportingNews

Five coaches you'll hear about during next year's hiring frenzy:

Dan Hawkins, Boise State. Hawkins took what Houston Nutt and Dirk Koetter started and nurtured and developed it into a monster of a program. Who could have imagined Boise State, close to a decade removed from I-AA, paying its white-hot coach $525,000 per year, plus heavy incentives? He's a master motivator with exceptional game-day acumen, but Hawkins won't go anywhere until his son finishes high school in 2008.

Gregg Brandon, Bowling Green. The architect of Urban Meyer's offense at Bowling Green, Brandon has further developed the system and has other MAC teams lifting his schemes and pass sets. He has 20 wins in two seasons and has proved he can develop a young, raw quarterback into a big-time talent (Omar Jacobs). Brandon won't make the same mistake Terry Hoeppner made by diving into the first BCS job that's offered. A MAC rising star at Miami (Ohio), Hoeppner is the new coach at Indiana.

Tim Murphy, Harvard. Before leaving for Harvard, Murphy had a five-year stint at Cincinnati (1989-93), where he took a dog of a program and carved out an 8-3 record in 1993. One of the game's best offensive minds, he has proved he can recruit with strict academic standards (and no athletic scholarships). One problem: Harvard is his dream job, and he's not leaving for just any mid-major spot. It would have to be a BCS team with unwavering administrative support.

Chris Hatcher, Valdosta State. In five years, he has put up 59 wins, one Division II national title, one national title runner-up and four Gulf South Conference titles. Here's the best part: He's only 32. He won the Harlon Hill Trophy -- the Division II Heisman -- in 1994 as a quarterback at Valdosta State, and he has fantastic knowledge of the passing game.

Bobby Hauck, Montana. A young Rick Neuheisel without all of the baggage, Hauck is an energetic, passionate recruiter and the charismatic voice of the program. He has worked as an assistant at major programs -- UCLA, Colorado, Washington -- and flourished in his first head coaching job despite huge expectations (think Alabama). Hauck won a piece of the Big Sky Conference title in each of his first two seasons and lost in the I-AA championship game last season.

Senior writer Matt Hayes covers college football for Sporting News. Email him at [email protected].

[OL FU]

I think it works both ways. Furman's coaches have both loved the school and looked at it as a stepping stone. 80's coach Dick Sheridan has been quoted as saying his most fond coaching memories are at Furman, but that did not stop him from taking a bigger payday at NC state (and who could blame him). Lamb, at FU now, (I would not classify him as one of the top coaches yet but, in time, he will be) is more then likely an example of someone who loves the program. He has been at Furman his entire adult life from quarterback to assistant to head coach. And yet, if the pay day comes along, he would have to consider it.

[blukeys]

I do think you are on to something, the I-A coaches who had success at I-AA schools seem to being doing pretty well in I-A e.g. Jim Tressell, Paul Johnson, Joe Glenn (by the way, great article on Glenn in the recent Sporting News).
The interesting thing is that despite the obvious success of these guys, they are the exceptions. More often than not the lower division head coaches are not looked at for head jobs when the time comes for replacing a I-A coach. One need not look at just I-AA. There are solid coaches at the D-2 and 3 ranks who warrant a shot.

The situation again is one of perception. Will alumni and media be accepting of a coach from a I-AA school? It is much safer for an AD from a I-A school to go with a I-a retread or an assistant coach. If He fails, you look for another. Andy Talley was a possible candidate for vacancies at Army and Duke yet nothing came of it.

It will be interesting to see what happens at Penn State when Jopa goes. Despite having some excellent I-AA coaches in the back yard, my betting is that none will get a serious look at that job.

[blueballs]

Lamb has improved so much as a HC, this coming from a GSU fan so I say it grudgingly but it is w/o a doubt true, that his "decision" day will surely come.

The UD folks will have the same issue with K.C. too.

[OL FU]

Lamb has improved so much as a HC, this coming from a GSU fan so I say it grudgingly but it is w/o a doubt true, that his "decision" day will surely come.

The UD folks will have the same issue with K.C. too.

Thanks for the sincerity and unfotunately I agree and it will be way to soon. PS, if we had beat JMU last year I would have put him in the great coach category :)

[LBPop]

My sense is that coaches at the I-A level are as much administrators/executives as they are coaches. The demands on I-A coaches that can essentially be traced to the multi-millions of dollars at stake, can be overwhelming. Certainly, the I-AA coaches deal with pressure and management issues, but they are magnified at the I-A level by the number of dollars. For that reason, I think that I-AA coaches have a better opportunity to truly coach vs. their typical I-A brethren. I doubt that they are truly better overall.

The best example that I observed closely is that of Mark Duffner who came to Maryland from Holy Cross. He failed as the Terp coach despite his outstanding record at Holy Cross. My impression (and that's all it really was) was that he was overwhelmed by the non-coaching demands at that level. It is obviously more complicated than that, but I think the jobs can be very different despite the similar job descriptions.

[Mr. C]

Lamb has improved so much as a HC, this coming from a GSU fan so I say it grudgingly but it is w/o a doubt true, that his "decision" day will surely come.

The UD folks will have the same issue with K.C. too.
I honestly believe that Bobby Lamb is one of the major reasons that Furman didn't win a national championship last season. Poor coaching decisions cost Furman at least two games last season, Appalachian State and James Madison, and maybe a third at Pittsburgh (though I'm not ready to put blowing that fourth quarter lead on Lamb instead of the injuries and poor kicking game).

You will, though, find great and not-so-great coaches at ALL levels of football.

[arkstfan]

My perception (I've not looked at the numbers) is that being a I-AA head coach is a lousy way to become a I-A head coach.

It seems to me that most I-A's either hire other I-A head coaches (if they've got the bucks to do it) or they hire assistant coaches internally or from other I-A programs.

Part of the problem is that a I-AA head coach with a good set-up isn't likely to leap for the MAC/WAC/Sun Belt jobs that aren't going to be a huge step up financially. You might be able to double your income (see Steve Roberts leaving NW State for Arkansas State) but it isn't the sort of leap you can get from those jobs going to one of the six rich I-A leagues or the upper MWC and CUSA. You could triple your salary leaving a Bowling Green for a Utah or Toledo for Missouri.

If MAC/WAC/Sun Belt job comes open, if the guy leaving did a good job they are more likely to look internally. If the guy leaving got fired the AD is going to be pressured to hire a coordinator from a successful I-A. Even if you get past that pressure to look at a I-AA head coach he has to assess why the other guy got fired. If the program isn't funded well and lags even conference members in facilities then it is going to be a four or five year job no matter what. Is the school realistic? San Jose State had three losing seasons with Dave Baldwin and fires him after a 7-5 season in his fourth year?

With a significant pool of I-A AD's unwilling to look at a I-AA head coach coupled with those that might be working on quicksand I just don't see it happening often.

[I-AA Fan]

I don't know how to say this, without it coming our negative. It is not meant to be. However, one cannot even begin to compare coaching at the I-AA level to the IA level...at least in the big programs. I mean how can you even compare Ohio State to Navy or Wyoming ... let alone IA to I-AA? At least a major program. A school like OSU is recruiting the top position players in the nation, where schools like Navy, Wyoming, and all I-AA programs are not going to see the top players in their respective states. OSU expects to get every top position player in the state & a coaches job is on the line if he does not do this succesfully. There is a big difference between recruiting and training a player that is hopeful to see post-college ball, and a player that is battling for a higher draft selection and salary. A I-AA player is willing to give 110% of his body and mind for his team, where a top IA player will usually be training & saving himself for what is a guaranteed opportunity at the next level. IA players are bigger, stronger, faster, with a higher skill level ... that is what the millions of dollars in budgets are for. NFL owners are in control at the BCS levels and don't ever think otherwise. Obviously recruiting & coaching in these conditions is completely different. The difference is usually far to difficult to overcome, thus success jumping from I-AA to IA is rare indeed.

[blukeys]

My perception (I've not looked at the numbers) is that being a I-AA head coach is a lousy way to become a I-A head coach.

It seems to me that most I-A's either hire other I-A head coaches (if they've got the bucks to do it) or they hire assistant coaches internally or from other I-A programs.

Part of the problem is that a I-AA head coach with a good set-up isn't likely to leap for the MAC/WAC/Sun Belt jobs that aren't going to be a huge step up financially. You might be able to double your income (see Steve Roberts leaving NW State for Arkansas State) but it isn't the sort of leap you can get from those jobs going to one of the six rich I-A leagues or the upper MWC and CUSA. You could triple your salary leaving a Bowling Green for a Utah or Toledo for Missouri.

If MAC/WAC/Sun Belt job comes open, if the guy leaving did a good job they are more likely to look internally. If the guy leaving got fired the AD is going to be pressured to hire a coordinator from a successful I-A. Even if you get past that pressure to look at a I-AA head coach he has to assess why the other guy got fired. If the program isn't funded well and lags even conference members in facilities then it is going to be a four or five year job no matter what. Is the school realistic? San Jose State had three losing seasons with Dave Baldwin and fires him after a 7-5 season in his fourth year?

With a significant pool of I-A AD's unwilling to look at a I-AA head coach coupled with those that might be working on quicksand I just don't see it happening often.

I have to agree with arkstfan on this one. It is safer for a I-A AD to pick
from in house or another I-A program. It will be interesting to see what happens At Penn State when JoPa retires. There is a wealth of I-AA coaching talent nearby but I bet none of the I-AA guys get a close look.

[arkstfan]

Obviously recruiting & coaching in these conditions is completely different. The difference is usually far to difficult to overcome, thus success jumping from I-AA to IA is rare indeed.

Larry Lacewell once told me the differences between being on staff at Oklahoma and the head coach at I-AA Arkansas State were:
1. At OU they signed guys based on where they were and how they projected to fit in. At ASU recruiting was based on how the coaches projected the player would develop.
2. At OU they normally had a handful of schools to seriously fight for the pool of players they were seriously after. If their need was a running back they made their list, some they would scratch early after first contact because the kid was going to go a Big 10 school if offered or an SEC school (depending on region of the country) and would then concentrate on the interested kids. They knew though it would be one of the 20 best that they would sign. At ASU they had to see what shook out in I-A recruiting. Late interest by a Tulsa or Memphis would mean losing the kid, the kid they hoped to not turn to suddenly would be the best choice so you couldn't have burned your bridges.
3.At OU he never had to tell a kid where the school was, the mascot, colors, what the uniforms look like, what offense they ran, or what conference they were in. At ASU that was usually the early questions except in state or close by.

[OL FU]

I honestly believe that Bobby Lamb is one of the major reasons that Furman didn't win a national championship last season. Poor coaching decisions cost Furman at least two games last season, Appalachian State and James Madison, and maybe a third at Pittsburgh (though I'm not ready to put blowing that fourth quarter lead on Lamb instead of the injuries and poor kicking game).

You will, though, find great and not-so-great coaches at ALL levels of football.

I think ASU game is possible (I know why you guys love him so much). Pitt, I don't think so. JMU, he played the odds. Our defense had performed great. So why not get the ball within your kicker's field goal range and take the shot. If he makes it you win and if he misses, the odds are good your defense keeps JMU from scoring. Unfortunately, playing the percentages did not work. If he had stayed aggresive on offense and had scored a TD he is a hero. If Martin throws an interception, he is an idiot. I can't disagree with the approach that he took even though it did not work.

But yes, I think he still has a small distance to go to be considered a great coach.