NDSWho?

[Tailbone]

I expect to be hammered for this.
It is NOT my intent to bash NDSU - I have nothing but respect for their program and would have preferred it were they, rather than UNC, who joined the BigSky.

That being said, what is the difference between San Diego, Hampton, and NDSU (all undefeated)?
Has NDSU's schedule been significantly more difficult than that of San Diego or Hampton...at least to this point in the season? Does it rate a #6 position in the polls?
Is there evidence - do you really feel - that the Bison are better than UMass, New Hampshire, or JMU? Have they even proved to be better than Hampton?

I like the NDSU program and feel that they may even deserve their ranking, but as of yet.....their record (schedule) doesn't provide adequate justification for a #6 ranking....does it?

[SochorField]

[QUOTE=Tailbone] Has NDSU's schedule been significantly more difficult than that of San Diego or Hampton [QUOTE]


I think so, yes.

[SochorField]

Has NDSU's schedule been significantly more difficult than that of San Diego or Hampton...at least to this point in the season? Does it rate a #6 position in the polls?

I think so, yes.

I don't really know how Hampton or San Diego would do against:

Concordia-St. Paul
Northeastern
Ball State
Stephen F. Austin
Georgia Southern
Mississippi Valley State

AND Minnesota this saturday.

I venture a guess Georgia Southern (I know they are having a bit of a down year), Ball State and especially Minnesota beat on USD, badly.

I don't know too much about Hampton, but the USD posters on this board make it seem like USDwould beat the San Diego freaking Chargers.

All I know, is if you let NDSU play San Diego's schedule, a lot of kids would get hurt.

[*****]

GPI undefeateds last week:
6 N Dakota St 6.22
13 Harvard 15.44
16 Princeton 17.44
18T Hampton 18.44
20 San Diego 19.11

[bison95]

GPI undefeateds last week:
6 N Dakota St 6.22
13 Harvard 15.44
16 Princeton 17.44
18T Hampton 18.44
20 San Diego 19.11

nuff said:nod:

The schedule gets tougher as the season goes along for the BISON so if they are the frauds Tailbone thinks they are it will show on the field! Me, I think they are ranked where they should be, and have the potential to go 10-1 this season with a slip up at UMinn, or when CalPoly comes to town.

[Jacks99]

I think so, here is their record. We will know for sure at the end when they play the highest ranked confernce...

Concordia-St. Paul 66 - 7 (W)
Northeastern 23 - 10 (W)
Ball State 29 - 24 (W)
Stephen F. Austin 17 - 9 (W)
Georgia Southern 34 - 14 (W)
Mississippi Valley State 45 - 0 (W)
Minnesota - - at Minneapolis, Minn. 2:30 p.m. ESPN Plus
Southern Utah* - - at Cedar City, Utah 2 p.m.
UC Davis* - - at Davis, Calif. 3:05 p.m. Comcast SportsNet West
Cal Poly* (Harvest Bowl) - - Fargo, N.D. 1 p.m.
South Dakota State* (Dakota Marker) - - Fargo, N.D. 6 p.m.

[RabidRabbit]

I expect to be hammered for this.
It is NOT my intent to bash NDSU - I have nothing but respect for their program and would have preferred it were they, rather than UNC, who joined the BigSky.

That being said, what is the difference between San Diego, Hampton, and NDSU (all undefeated)?
Has NDSU's schedule been significantly more difficult than that of San Diego or Hampton...at least to this point in the season? Does it rate a #6 position in the polls?
Is there evidence - do you really feel - that the Bison are better than UMass, New Hampshire, or JMU? Have they even proved to be better than Hampton?

I like the NDSU program and feel that they may even deserve their ranking, but as of yet.....their record (schedule) doesn't provide adequate justification for a #6 ranking....does it?

Ball St. or GSU would have likely hung a loss on either Hampton or San Diego. Yes, GSU is down, relative to the top 10 team that they usually are, but I suspect that App St. is going to have a difficult win at Statesboro. A place that NDSU came for a first trip, and won.

We won't know til the end of the season how good this Bison team is. However, we know that they are 6-0, they've played and beaten reputable, prior play-off teams, and they've played five different D-I conferences. By being the ONLY UNBEATEN, WITH A WIN OVER IA, yes, they should be that high. At this point they are two wins from being considered eligible (except for their transitional status). The two schools in a comparable status prior to this last weekend were 1) UNH, and 2) SIU.

My :twocents:

[birdsflyhigh]

Good post Tailbone. I'm of the same mind. I completely respect the NDSU program, but their schedule is pathetic so far. Know that a team can only beat who's on their schedule (and so far NDSU has beaten all their opponents), but IMO the Bison's sched has consisted of some pretty weak-sisters. The Bison's "big" win so far is over a VERY down Georgia Southern team....that's not saying too much.

I'm just looking at schedules, strength of oppenents and score results. Think the Bison DO have a darn good team, but when posters start talking about voting NDSU #1 because they are undefeated, I have to shake my head in disbelief. Yes, NDSU has an unblemished record, but c'mon folks who have they played?? :eek:

[Tailbone]

GPI undefeateds last week:
6 N Dakota St 6.22
13 Harvard 15.44
16 Princeton 17.44
18T Hampton 18.44
20 San Diego 19.11

Ralph, I understand your infatuation with the GPI, but the record of NDSU opponents is 9-16 (.360).
Not exactly a stellar resume.

[Tailbone]

Ball St. or GSU would have likely hung a loss on either Hampton or San Diego. Yes, GSU is down, relative to the top 10 team that they usually are, but I suspect that App St. is going to have a difficult win at Statesboro. A place that NDSU came for a first trip, and won.

We won't know til the end of the season how good this Bison team is. However, we know that they are 6-0, they've played and beaten reputable, prior play-off teams, and they've played five different D-I conferences. By being the ONLY UNBEATEN, WITH A WIN OVER IA, yes, they should be that high. At this point they are two wins from being considered eligible (except for their transitional status). The two schools in a comparable status prior to this last weekend were 1) UNH, and 2) SIU.

My :twocents:

Give me a break!

Ball state is the 122nd ranked team in Div-1 per Sagarin.
There are 22 I-AA teams above Ball state.
GSU is the only quality win on NDSU's schedule this year, and even GSU fans would question that.

Like I said, I am NOT bashing NDSU, and the coming weeks will tell whether or not they deserve the accolades they are receiving - but right now it appears to be a lot of hype without substance.

As for those who would argue that you can only play the hand you've been dealt (or the teams you have scheduled)....careful how you argue the San Diego issue (what's sauce for the goose........)

[birdsflyhigh]

Oh and forgot to mention NDSU's other "big" win over a 2-5 I-A Ball State.
Who did Ball State beat to get those two wins? The Cardinals beat a 1-5 E. Michigan team and an 0-6 Buffalo team. What I'm saying is that NDSU getting a I-A win looks great on paper, but when you look at who they beat (a bottom of the barrel MAC team), then that "big" win is NOT worth hanging your hat on.

I will be rooting for NDSU this weekend against Minnesota, but realistically I think the Gophers (who sport a very deceiving 2-5 record) will easily dispatch the Bison. Why? Because Minnesota is a decent Big Ten team....not some sad-sack MAC school. :twocents:

[ucdtim17]

Good post Tailbone. I'm of the same mind. I completely respect the NDSU program, but their schedule is pathetic so far. Know that a team can only beat who's on their schedule (and so far NDSU has beaten all their opponents), but IMO the Bison's sched has consisted of some pretty weak-sisters. The Bison's "big" win so far is over a VERY down Georgia Southern team....that's not saying too much.

I'm just looking at schedules, strength of oppenents and score results. Think the Bison DO have a darn good team, but when posters start talking about voting NDSU #1 because they are undefeated, I have to shake my head in disbelief. Yes, NDSU has an unblemished record, but c'mon folks who have they played?? :eek:


You do realize they beat Ball State, a I-A team with 2 I-A wins this year? Undefeated with a I-A win, it's a pretty easy argument that they could be underrated

[Go Bison]

I expect to be hammered for this.
It is NOT my intent to bash NDSU - I have nothing but respect for their program and would have preferred it were they, rather than UNC, who joined the BigSky.

That being said, what is the difference between San Diego, Hampton, and NDSU (all undefeated)?
Has NDSU's schedule been significantly more difficult than that of San Diego or Hampton...at least to this point in the season? Does it rate a #6 position in the polls?
Is there evidence - do you really feel - that the Bison are better than UMass, New Hampshire, or JMU? Have they even proved to be better than Hampton?

I like the NDSU program and feel that they may even deserve their ranking, but as of yet.....their record (schedule) doesn't provide adequate justification for a #6 ranking....does it?

NDSU is doing its best putting together a tough schedule. When the Georgia Southern game was scheduled it looked like it would be a good one. They would love to play App St, UMass, New Hampshire, Montana. Call up our AD and get it scheduled. If you really want a challenge come play the Bison in the Fargodome.

[*****]

Ralph, I understand your infatuation with the GPI, but the record of NDSU opponents is 9-16 (.360).
Not exactly a stellar resume.Tailbone, I understand your infatuation with won/loss records as well (laughing how you reference Sag and discount the GPI).

[Tailbone]

NDSU is doing its best putting together a tough schedule. When the Georgia Southern game was scheduled it looked like it would be a good one. They would love to play App St, UMass, New Hampshire, Montana. Call up our AD and get it scheduled.

I would not, and am not, accusing the Bison of dodging good teams in favor of the "little sisters of the poor", that's not the NDSU that I know.
I have little doubt that when the schedules were made, this looked like a good one. Doesn't change the fact that in retrospect, it's pretty weak.
You don't get credit for good intentions.

[Bison05]

Oh and forgot to mention NDSU's other "big" win over a 2-5 I-A Ball State.
Who did Ball State beat to get those two wins? The Cardinals beat a 1-5 E. Michigan team and an 0-6 Buffalo team. What I'm saying is that NDSU getting a I-A win looks great on paper, but when you look at who they beat (a bottom of the barrel MAC team), then that "big" win is NOT worth hanging your hat on.

I will be rooting for NDSU this weekend against Minnesota, but realistically I think the Gophers (who sport a very deceiving 2-5 record) will easily dispatch the Bison. Why? Because Minnesota is a decent Big Ten team....not some sad-sack MAC school. :twocents:

I would also say that Ball State's record is very deceiving, they lost by 1 to Indiana, and by 10 to Purdue (Minnesota lost by a very comparable score). Ball State would easily be a top 25 team in I-AA.

[Bison05]

Also look at the 'Biggest Dissapointment/ Suprise" thread and see how many non-Bison fans are impressed with what NDSU has done this season. We have a very good team this year, and at the end of the season, I think this thread will be something of a joke.

[*****]

... it's pretty weak...*Thu 8/31/2006 Conc-St Paul at North Dakota St, North Dakota St 66-7
Sat 9/16/2006 Northeastern at North Dakota St, North Dakota St 23-10
**Sat 9/23/2006 North Dakota St at Ball State, North Dakota St 29-24
Sat 9/30/2006 North Dakota St at Stephen F. Austin, North Dakota St 17-9
Sat 10/7/2006 North Dakota St at Ga Southern, North Dakota St 34-14
Sat 10/14/2006 Miss Valley St at North Dakota St, North Dakota St 45-0
**Sat 10/21/2006 North Dakota St at Minnesota 3:30 PM
***Sat 10/28/2006 North Dakota St at Southern Utah 3:00 PM
***Sat 11/4/2006 North Dakota St at UC Davis 4:00 PM
***Sat 11/11/2006 Cal Poly at North Dakota St 2:00 PM
***Sat 11/18/2006 South Dakota St at North Dakota St 7:00 PM

* D-II
** I-A
*** Conference

That is NOT a weak schedule. 10 full scholly D-I games.

[Tailbone]

Tailbone, I understand your infatuation with won/loss records as well (laughing how you reference Sag and discount the GPI).

Touche'.

GPI & win/loss records are tantamount to the blind men describing an elephant, and as isolated statistical data, offer little.
In some cases (perhaps most), unbiased subjective appraisal will yield a more accurate assessmant of relative strength.

How many people thought that Hampton desrved their GPI or tourney seeding last year (ranking based on "statistical data")?
I would venture that most AGS posters (correctly) felt there were more deserving teams below the Pirates.

[Tailbone]

..........Ball State would easily be a top 25 team in I-AA.

There is no evidence of that, and frankly, they should be a I-AA team.


..........We have a very good team this year .....

No-one said you didn't.
There is just no evidence to support that assertion.....yet.
Stay tuned. We're about to find out.

[*****]

Touche'.
GPI & win/loss records are tantamount to the blind men describing an elephant, and as isolated statistical data, offer little.
In some cases (perhaps most), unbiased subjective appraisal will yield a more accurate assessmant of relative strength.
How many people thought that Hampton desrved their GPI or tourney seeding last year (ranking based on "statistical data")?...Hampton was tied for 14th last year in the final regular season GPI so I don't know what you mean. How you say "unbiased subjective appraisal will yield a more accurate assessmant of relative strength" and discount the GPI is questionable. Explain it for us please.

[Mike Johnson]

I think so, here is their record. We will know for sure at the end when they play the highest ranked confernce...

Concordia-St. Paul 66 - 7 (W)
Northeastern 23 - 10 (W)
Ball State 29 - 24 (W)
Stephen F. Austin 17 - 9 (W)
Georgia Southern 34 - 14 (W)
Mississippi Valley State 45 - 0 (W)
Minnesota - - at Minneapolis, Minn. 2:30 p.m. ESPN Plus
Southern Utah* - - at Cedar City, Utah 2 p.m.
UC Davis* - - at Davis, Calif. 3:05 p.m. Comcast SportsNet West
Cal Poly* (Harvest Bowl) - - Fargo, N.D. 1 p.m.
South Dakota State* (Dakota Marker) - - Fargo, N.D. 6 p.m.

While San Diego would not be guaranteed to win the first 6 games on this schedule (neither was North Dakota State guaranteed to win them either), they would have a decent chance of beating all six.

And like North Dakota State, they would likely get their clocks cleaned at Minnesota this week.

As for the four Great West teams, I would love to see San Diego in the Great West and while I wouldn't predict they would finish first or second, they would be competitive.

The main argument against San Diego is a weak schedule and that because they have no scholarships they have no depth. They appear to have a lot of depth in the games they have played this year, when 2nd and 3rd string backs are ripping off 10+ yards a carry. Besides something like 91% of the team gets "need-based" grants covering at least part of their tuition.

I wouldn't argue that they would beat the San Diego Chargers or even the San Diego State Aztecs, but they would be competitive in the Great West and as long as they play in the Pioneer Football Conferenece, many will suspect their ability to compete for a season.

The rest of the season will say a lot about the Bison and San Diego doesn't have anything like that for them to show whether or not they can compete. The Great West needs another team or two; San Diego needs to be able to show if it can compete at a high level in Division IAA week in and week out and this would also get a number of conference opponents that are relatively close to them geographically. I think it would be a great match for San Diego to be in the Great West.

[Tailbone]

...........

That is NOT a weak schedule. 10 full scholly D-I games.

Against 6 teams with 9 wins amongst them.
Any way you slice it, that's unimpressive.

[AggiePride]

I think they have played a pretty good schedule (granted their opponents have gone on to have some tough first half of their seasons), won in convincing fashion, and have gone undefeated.

You dislike the GPI it seems, but it actually takes more into account than just the opponents records, as you should too.

I guess UC Davis would be another easy game for the Bison from your perspective. We are only .500.

You do realize that a team could have all their opponents records add up to under .500 and have played all ranked teams......right? ESPECIALLY when it is midseason.

I think you present a poor argument.

[*****]

... The main argument against San Diego is a weak schedule and that because they have no scholarships... something like 91% of the team gets "need-based" grants covering at least part of their tuition...No football student-athlete at USD receives any money that the entire student body cannot receive. True non-scholarship/grants in aid.

[birdsflyhigh]

Well, if we're going to play the game of connect the dots, then that's the same Indiana team that lost (by a touchdown) at home to SIU. And that's the same SIU that just gone blown off the field by Illinois State...37-10.

And when Ball St. gave Purdue somewhat of a game that was around the same time that the Boilmakers were given a pretty good game by a now-still-winless Indiana State team (they've lost 23 in a row....sorry Syc fans).

I agree with Tailbone that NDSU shouldn't be punished for playing what looked liked a good schedule initially (but has since developed into a bunch of weak-sisters). However, at the same time, I don't think that NDSU should be rewarded by such a high ranking simply for going undefeated against a poor schedule. No way!

Hey, I like the Bison!! Just suprised at how many pollsters are giving them big props and voting them high in the polls considering all the facts.
Who knows? Maybe NDSU gets the win at Minnesota this weekend. :thumbsup:

[Jacks99]

Bottom line, if the Great West had 8/9 teams, NDSU would have played 2-3 conference games, but they haven't and played mid range I-AA teams for the most part. That is one big negative in College football is that there are only a few weeks for non-conference games to get a good judge on teams before conference play. Once that starts, the conference bias plays heavy in polls. At least I-AA has playoffs which can sort it out at the end. (except for NDSU this year) The BS still leaves most scratching their head at the end on how good most teams/conferences really are.

Time will tell...

[*****]

Against 6 teams with 9 wins amongst them...You mean they are undefeated against 6 teams with 9 wins amongst them. They have five games left, so do the opponents they have already whipped.

[*****]

... I don't think that NDSU should be rewarded by such a high ranking simply for going undefeated against a poor schedule...Support your statement with something other than deceiving w/l records. Oh yeah, tell the teams that the NDSU beaten opponents played that they are "weak sisters." xlolx

[89Hen]

That being said, what is the difference between San Diego, Hampton, and NDSU (all undefeated)?
Has NDSU's schedule been significantly more difficult than that of San Diego or Hampton...at least to this point in the season?
Yes. At least enough to make a difference of 10-20 spots in the poll.

NDSU beat a I-A that you like to point out is so low in I-A that they are behind 20+ I-AA... wouldn't that make them a Top 25 I-AA? GSU, although down for them, are still a solid I-AA team. One that will go on to beat 5+ other I-AA's. Even Northeastern is not horrible and beat the #1 PL team to date (Holy Cross). Hampton's schedule is weaker IMO and USD's weaker still.

[birdsflyhigh]

Yes those first six games on NDSU schedule are a virtual murderer's row of competition. Glad you posted that up ralph, so a few others can take a good look at who the Bison have faced so far. WOW!! :rolleyes:

[bison95]

Southern Illinois beat Indiania, Indiania beat Iowa, Iowa beat Montana by a ton. Is montana ranked too high because of their weak schedule and being beaten like a rented mule by a bad Iowa team?

This who beats who **** needs to stop, We are half way through the season, and it will be played on the field by players. The first three years in I-AA the Bison have been ranked, and this tradition helps them convince voters that they belong. I hear more people on this board stating that NDSU is being screwed out of the playoffs than the Non- Scolies. The year I see Montana, GSU, UNH, Deleware..... all not ranked in pre season, is when your argument holds water. Reputation matters, tradition matters! So when your non scollie programs play and beat the best in DI-AA you will be thought of in the same light that most voters see NDSU.

[AggiePride]

Yes those first six games on NDSU schedule are a virtual murderer's row of competition. Glad you posted that up ralph, so a few others can take a good look at who the Bison have faced so far. WOW!! :rolleyes:

Looks pretty solid to me.

The win over I-A Ball St. is as impressive as any top 25 1-AA win and going into GSU's house and winning in dominant fashion (even in a down year) and almost setting defensive records to boot, are the highlights.

The fact they took care of business with everyone else is not to bad either, while also piling up nice stats.

[Tailbone]

I think they have played a pretty good schedule (granted their opponents have gone on to have some tough first half of their seasons), won in convincing fashion, and have gone undefeated.

I fail to see the point.
There are teams that have played a more difficult schedule, with a loss or two, that I feel are as good or better than NDSU. Of course, just as the bison have insufficient "on-field" evidence to support their ranking, I likewise am unable to produce a compelling argument that would convince you that PSU, JMU, UCD,or Cal-Poly are better teams than the Bison.


You dislike the GPI it seems, but it actually takes more into account than just the opponents records, as you should too..

I don't dislike the GPI, It is one of many tools by which one may evaluate relative strength. I don't however, believe it is the only word or final word on the matter. I hold win/loss records in special reverence either - like GPI it is one of many tools.


I guess UC Davis would be another easy game for the Bison from your perspective. We are only .500. .

I didn't say that for exactly the reason you stated in the next quote.
A quick inspection of the NDSU opponents to date however, is evidence that the Bison have NOT played a schedule consisting of all top 25 teams....or even above .500 teams....and that's my point.


You do realize that a team could have all their opponents records add up to under .500 and have played all ranked teams......right? ESPECIALLY when it is midseason..

See above. This isn't the case. Ridiculous argument.


I think you present a poor argument.

And you offer no evidence whatsoever to support your assertion.
You have NO argument.
Checkmate.

[birdsflyhigh]

Guess my looking at NDSU's schedule and thinking they've playing a pretty weak slate is just me being delusional ...xlolx

Good luck Bison this weekend versus the Gophers! I'll be real interested in the outcome of this game. Like I said earlier...who knows? Maybe NDSU gives 'em a game. That would be pretty cool...just not sure that is how it's going to happen. Hmmm????

[Bison05]

Similarly, Montana would then have no reason to be ranked in the top 5. Look at the combined records of the teams they have beat 13-26 (.406). :eyebrow: Obviously going by your argument they shouldnt be ranked nearly as high as they are.
This whole topic is stupid.xidiotx xidiotx

P.S. I do think Montana deserves their ranking, however I also think that NDSU deserves theirs too.

[Tailbone]

There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.

I am not saying NDSU is undeserving of their ranking, I am questioning the "evidence" that supports it.

I am not saying that SD or Hampton is as good as NDSU, though they might make an argument based on win/loss and refute NDSU arguments based on quality of opponent (as relates to their collective w/l record).

Regarding subjective assessment of relative strength.
Case in point: Portland State. I'd bet even money, that they would beat, if not crush the Bison. And there is no evidence that would support an assertion to the contrary!

[bison95]

THAT IS WHY IT IS CALLED A POLL AND NOT THE WORD OF GOD!

[Russ B]

NDSU's schedule/results looks pretty similar to UMass and they are ranked about the same. UMass has a loss to a I-A team and has only played one I-AA opponent with a winning record.

[AggieFinn]

THAT IS WHY IT IS CALLED A POLL AND NOT THE WORD OF GOD!

Amen, polls don't win the games, the team wins the games, and well, the Bison have won the games, so let's not overanalyze a good football team into the ground. The second half of the NDSU schedule should reveal a little more about the Bison squad, but they're a good football team. :cool:

[AggiePride]

I fail to see the point.
There are teams that have played a more difficult schedule, with a loss or two, that I feel are as good or better than NDSU. Of course, just as the bison have insufficient "on-field" evidence to support their ranking, I likewise am unable to produce a compelling argument that would convince you that PSU, JMU, UCD,or Cal-Poly are better teams than the Bison.



I don't dislike the GPI, It is one of many tools by which one may evaluate relative strength. I don't however, believe it is the only word or final word on the matter. I hold win/loss records in special reverence either - like GPI it is one of many tools.



I didn't say that for exactly the reason you stated in the next quote.
A quick inspection of the NDSU opponents to date however, is evidence that the Bison have NOT played a schedule consisting of all top 25 teams....or even above .500 teams....and that's my point.



See above. This isn't the case. Ridiculous argument.



And you offer no evidence whatsoever to support your assertion.
You have NO argument.
Checkmate.

Highlighted what I needed too.

[BisonBacker]

NDSU's schedule/results looks pretty similar to UMass and they are ranked about the same. UMass has a loss to a I-A team and has only played one I-AA opponent with a winning record.
I think our rank is deserved however I also understand the questions of some but I don't know how you can leave out Montana or others as have been pointed out. There are so many ways to look at it and thats what makes it fun. I take no offense to it and as has been pointed out the season will play itself out and the pretenders and the contenders will be weeded out. I'm just sorry that NDSU isn't playoff eligible so we could make our case in the playoffs. I also hope some better or alleged better competition will be in the offing in the next couple years. I liked the schedule we had before the season and nobody can argue we were trying to look for cupcakes as it was all the teams except Concordia St. Paul looked to be competitive if not very good teams. We can't help it if some are having off years : smh :

[Russ B]

SFA looks particularly bad...until one notices that two of their losses are to I-A teams. W/L records are a little weird this time of year, with so many teams adding a I-A game or two and just now getting into their conference schedules.

[FargoBison]

Before I post this I am not trying to slight Cal Poly in anyway, I know you guys are a great program. I am just saying NDSU and Cal Poly are close, very close.

so here goes

Cal Poly-5-1
W-Fort Lewis(DII)
W-Weber St(2-4)
W-Sac St(2-4)
L-San Jose St(I-A, 4-1)
W-SUU(3-4)-Two wins over DII schools
W-UCD(3-3)

NDSU-6-0
W-CSP(DII)
W-Northeastern(2-4)
W-Ball St(I-A, 2-5)
W-SFA(1-5)
W-GSU(3-3)
W-MVSU(3-4)

Fort Lewis=CSP
Weber=Northeastern
Sac St=MVSU
SUU=SFA
UCD=Ball St

So why aren't you calling out Cal Poly, tailbone? This whole thread is crazy, if NDSU shouldnt be ranked 6th what should it be ranked? 7,8,9 or 10, whats the big deal?

[Russ B]

The top teams should stop beating people, that way their opponents records will look better. ;)

[Tailbone]

Highlighted what I needed too.

Good catch. :o
But the inclusion of the word "either", and "one of many tools" should have given evidence as to what I intended to convey.

As I said, There are none so blind as he who refuses to see.

FWIW: I do feel that NDSU is a top 10 team, and if they manage to get get through their GWFC schedule relatively unscathed, they will have proved it (at least to my satisfaction).

[ucdtim17]

This is stupid - by the standards of this thread, no one deserves to be ranked top-10. NDSU has played a schedule ranked 166 by Sagarin, 10 behind UNH and comparable to plenty of top I-AA teams. They've beaten everyone - there isn't exactly a whole bevy of I-AA teams that have gone undefeated against 6 ranked opponents and a top I-A school

[RabidRabbit]

Has a IAA school ever won against 2 IA'S in the same year? :confused: :confused:

Here we have a TRANSITIONAL team, not eligible for the Play-offs. And we have a group that questions if this team is worthy of a #1 vote.

In the thread about Who's #1, about the same percentage said NDSU as said Il St. U. (With 2005 NC App St with 1/2 the total votes). Each person used their knowledge to arrive at a decision. Each person is right for themselves.

For most of the teams in IAA, the play-offs will establish whose #1. For about 27 teams it won't. NDSU is among those 27. The rest of the season is big for them, as well as the other teams. But as of right now, they have a good an argument as any team out there to be #1. Maybe not better argument, but as good. :read: :read: :twocents:

[blueballs]

I've seen NDSU up close and personal and they are very good. They would be a playoff team if allowed to participate and would be a contender for the title with the right draw.

Thay are very big, very physical-especially their front seven defensively- and are one of the smartest teams I've seen in this division in a while- extremely solid and well coached, a class act.

NDSU definitely deserves their ranking.

BTW, I am a longtime GSU season ticket holder and have seen enough championship football in this division in person to recognize good teams and NDSU fits that description.

[bisonbill]

Schedule strength is only part of what to look for. The whole idea of a poll is.. Who do I think is better than the next team.

NDSU has not exactly blown out their competition in every game (score wise). I do believe however that they were better than all their competition thus far.

NDSU did dominate and control of the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball in every win. Coach Bohl has called a very conservative season in my opinion. I believe we were in complete control of our competition by the end of each game.

There were no fluke games... we were just better.

[Tailbone]

I've seen NDSU up close and personal and they are very good. They would be a playoff team if allowed to participate and would be a contender for the title with the right draw.

Thay are very big, very physical-especially their front seven defensively- and are one of the smartest teams I've seen in this division in a while- extremely solid and well coached, a class act.

NDSU definitely deserves their ranking.

BTW, I am a longtime GSU season ticket holder and have seen enough championship football in this division in person to recognize good teams and NDSU fits that description.

BB, I'll take your word for it as you have seen the Bison play, and many other quality teams as well.
NDSU has always been a great program, and I'm not surprised that they are smart, solid, and well coached.

My questions were not meant to discount any aspect of the Bison or their ranking...The same questions posed might apply to Cal-Poly, or App State.
My contention is that there is insufficient basis for speculative claims, given the quantity and quality (>.500) teams.

Consider the following:
Teams listed with >.500 opponents (I-AA only), and their record against a schedule that includes those teams.

2 or more, = or > .500 teams
UNH: JMU, Richmond, Delaware, N'Western
JMU: Appy, UNH
Mont: SDSU, PSU
PSU: 2 1AA (1-1), Mont, MSU
YSU: Maine, Davis
ISU: WKU, SIU, EIll
Davis: YSU, CalPoly, MSU
MSU: Davis, PSU
SDSU: Mont,UNI
Coastal: GSU, Furman
Maine: YSU, Towson

1 = or > .500 teams
NDSU: GSU
calPoly: Davis
Appy: JMU
Richmond: UNH

Any of these teams might make a good argument for high poll placement, and given the quantity and quality of the opposition, might make a case for a higher rank than NDSU (or Cal-Poly or App State). Of course, one might make a case to the contrary but ought to have some basis other than their record (given the teams they played).

your opinion, based on first hand observation, is sufficient basis for your opinion. Some have no basis other than hearsay or unsupported speculation.
It was to those fans for whom my questions were intended.

In any event, All teams are about to hit the "meat" of their conference schedules and things will sort themselves out. I do expect NDSU to end up a top 10 team.

[MrTitleist]

NDSU is justified with their ranking. They are a top notch program, and a quality program at that. They're knocking people off like it was nothing, and I fully expect them to give Minnesota all they can handle this weekend. I don't know that they'll win, but they'll certainly make it a game. They're a hard-nosed, smack you in the mouth team, and don't seem to get pushed around. #6 is the right ranking for them, and I bet they'd beat half the teams in the top 10. Maybe even some higher seeds. It's a shame they can't make the playoffs this year, because they'd certainly make some noise.

[PantherRob82]

I'm glad that NDSU is not playing us this year. They are impressive. They aren't out begging for votes. They're getting them the old fashioned way. They're doing their talking on the field. :thumbsup:

[NorthDakotaBison]

That being said, what is the difference between San Diego, Hampton, and NDSU (all undefeated)?

What's the difference?

How about night and day.

NDSU has always and will always play a tough schedule.

(With the exception of CSP)

Northeastern-a quality A10 team. Beat Delaware. Currently #32 in the GPI.

Ball State-A DI-A team.

Stephen F. Austin-a team with nuts that played with Arizona for three quarters.

Georgia Southern-ever heard of them?

Mississippi Valley State-picked by some to win their side of the SWAC. We beat 'em 45-0.

You need to use your brains. You've not only unjustly criticized a legitimate top 10 team, you've insulted those which it is has beaten this year.


IMO USD has no business being ranked. You've beaten one 'average' DI-AA school in Yale (#31 in the GPI) and you think you belong in the playoffs.


I sincerely congratulate the team on their success, but some of its fans, certainly its coach, and some members of the media are doing nothing but embarassing yourselves.


If you want to prove yourselves call up our AD, I bet he'd give you a home and home and our football team would introduce you to true top 25 I-AA College Football.

[PantherRob82]

If you want to prove yourselves call up our AD, I bet he'd give you a home and home and our football team would introduce you to true top 25 I-AA College Football.

Call anyone's AD for that matter. Anyone in the Gateway besides Indiana St or Missouri St, anyone in the Great West, anyone in the Big Sky...the list goes on. Tell him to call someone. :nod:

[BearsCountry]

Call anyone's AD for that matter. Anyone in the Gateway besides Indiana St or Missouri St, anyone in the Great West, anyone in the Big Sky...the list goes on. Tell him to call someone. :nod:

Hey now we can handle non-scholly programs. :nod:

Besides you guys complaining about NDSU's schedule just wait a few years when they get in the Gateway.

[BillLuc1982]

Hey now we can handle non-scholly programs. :nod:

Besides you guys complaining about NDSU's schedule just wait a few years when they get in the Gateway.

I've heard that they will probably enter the Gateway. They play Gateway-caliber football. Which other teams may enter/exit the Gateway since W. Kentucky is moving to the Sun Belt in I-A?

[BisonBacker]

I would say SDSU is a likely candidate as well.

[BearsCountry]

Yeah SDSU is the most likely. Besides those two are the only ones in the region that are similar to the Gateway schools.

[Eaglegus2]

I have to give credit to NDSU for scheduling Georgia Southern. They actually caught the Eagles at their weakest. Hopefully, when GSU travels to the Fargo Dome, you will see a better team than you faced in Statesboro.

Best of luck against the Gophers. I do believe you have the opportunity to knock them off.

[spelunker64]

Hopefully, when GSU travels to the Fargo Dome, you will see a better team than you faced in Statesboro.

Me too, I don't want another MVSU 45-0 type game

[X-Factor]

the MVS game was incredibly dull. Playing good teams like GSU makes such a big difference! I would seriously love to see San Diego come to the dome. There is really no excuse for San Diego not having a few decent teams on their schedule as we all know how desperate most Great West teams are for games (including NDSU).

BTW, would San Deigo even count as a DI team towards the 7 DI wins to make playoffs?

[Bison05]

Since USD is DI they would count towards the 7 win requirement, although I would think that the comittee would look at the fact that their a non-schloraship program.

[blueballs]

BB, I'll take your word for it as you have seen the Bison play, and many other quality teams as well.
NDSU has always been a great program, and I'm not surprised that they are smart, solid, and well coached.

My questions were not meant to discount any aspect of the Bison or their ranking...The same questions posed might apply to Cal-Poly, or App State.
My contention is that there is insufficient basis for speculative claims, given the quantity and quality (>.500) teams.



I'll let you know about Appalachian State after this weekend as they travel to Statesboro.

I agree that it is hard to quantify the quality of wins early in the season. We are starting to get to the point where enough games have been played where we all pretty much know what each other's got and that grows weekly.

[lucchesicourt]

All I can input here about NDSU is, I have seen this program play UCD over the past 30 years, and they are a very, very, good team. Anyone who thinks they are EVER going to have a guaranteed win over them is in for a very big surprise. I have always felt that UCD is the underdog when we play them. I believe we have split our meetings with them, but they are a tough program that keeps the score close or they blow you out. They are always in the game!!!