JMU QB Recruit Announces Dukes to C-USA

[superman7515]

http://www.mycentraljersey.com/article/20131227/NJSPORTS0110/312270053?gcheck=1&nclick_check=1


“I just really loved the coaches and the whole staff,’’ Nittolo said. “It’s really up and coming and they’re moving to Conference USA soon. The new coaches I really like and I just loved the facilities and the school campus itself.’’

James Madison, which competes on the Division I-FCS level in the Colonial Athletic Association, is on the verge of moving up to the Division I-FBS level in the near future in Conference USA, according to Nittolo, though nothing official has been announced.

“I don't think it was as big as a decision as most people would think it is,’’ said Nittolo of James Madison’s impending move to the FBS playing level.

James Madison recently hired Ohio State defensive coordinator Everett Whithers as its new head coach.

[Twentysix]

Lol, Just like Lamar to the sun belt a year or two ago.

Well, this one is more likely, but still... a hs qb isn't leaking this.

[hebmskebm]

I have no doubt the kid has been told a move is happening; whether it actually happens is another story altogether.

[ngineer]

Yes, recruits get told all sorts of pie in the sky 'expectations'....and maybe JMU will be moving in the 'near future', but I think it will be a mistake.

[UNHWildcat18]

With the potential to further expand the stadium there is no way they would stay in the FCS so regardless of how worth it the move is they will go FBS no doubt.

[bluehenbillk]

Villanova worked this into their favor a few years ago with the Big East talk but I have to believe that JMU will be gone soon. Not a matter of if, but when.

[Seawolf97]

That will be a nice rivalry with Old Dominion so close. Good for both fan bases and a better deal than UMass worked.

[knucklehead]

Interesting if true. Will shake up the Sun Belt's choices a bit.

[walliver]

Interesting if true. Will shake up the Sun Belt's choices a bit.

I think it was fairly obvious last year that JMU wasn't really interested in the Sun Belt. Consultants generally recommend whatever it is you pay them to recommend, so I believe JMU had already made their FBS vs. FCS decision.

After the new year, we should start hearing rumors. I doubt Liberty will be seriously considered for political reasons. Jax State would be a good choice, but I doubt Troy would stand for it.

[knucklehead]

I think it was fairly obvious last year that JMU wasn't really interested in the Sun Belt. Consultants generally recommend whatever it is you pay them to recommend, so I believe JMU had already made their FBS vs. FCS decision.

After the new year, we should start hearing rumors. I doubt Liberty will be seriously considered for political reasons. Jax State would be a good choice, but I doubt Troy would stand for it.

Agree and Disagree. I do think there is a better chance of Sun Belt going for Jax St or Missou St if they are ready and willing. I don't want to make this about Liberty since it's about JMU, but if LU doesn't get in it's not about politics or religion. That stuff is great for us to talk about here, but I doubt it has much play in these discussions. It's more about money, academics, and what do you bring in athletics.

[Twentysix]

I don't think Missouri State is interested in the Sun Belt; Basketball in the Sun Belt is too **** box.

CUSA is only a tiny step down in basketball for Missouri State and offers FBS football.

SB is a huge step backwards, Missouri State is in a top 10 basketball conference, SB is in the 20s as a basketball conference.

[clenz]

Supposedly msu had had a full member invite (including fb) to the sun belt for a while....still saying no.

It goes to show,I know it's hard to believe for almost all of your you hear and the DSUs when talking about wanting in the mvc, that the mvfc schools are still all basketball first.

UNI AD Dannen is on record saying he will not make a football move that will impact UNIs basketball future negatively at all

Sent from my S4 using Tapatalk

[superman7515]

I don't think Missouri State is interested in the Sun Belt; Basketball in the Sun Belt is too **** box.

CUSA is only a tiny step down in basketball for Missouri State and offers FBS football.

SB is a huge step backwards, Missouri State is in a top 10 basketball conference, SB is in the 20s as a basketball conference.

MVC = 10
Sun Belt = 13
CUSA = 19

[Twentysix]

MVC = 10
Sun Belt = 13
CUSA = 19

In what raiting?

Sagarin 2012-13 final

Sunbelt 21
MVC 9
CUSA 11

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/ncaab/sagarin/2013/conference/


RPI 2012-13 final

Sunbelt 15
CUSA 11
MVC 9

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/bracketology/conference/rpi/2012-13

[MSUBear42]

I don't think Missouri State is interested in the Sun Belt; Basketball in the Sun Belt is too **** box.

CUSA is only a tiny step down in basketball for Missouri State and offers FBS football.

SB is a huge step backwards, Missouri State is in a top 10 basketball conference, SB is in the 20s as a basketball conference.

I think Missouri State is MUCH closer to going to the MAC than to either of those two. We already are a part of the MAC in two sports and are putting money into building a Field Hockey stadium... not sure why else we would do that.

[Twentysix]

I think Missouri State is MUCH closer to going to the MAC than to either of those two. We already are a part of the MAC in two sports and are putting money into building a Field Hockey stadium... not sure why else we would do that.

Interesting.

[Cocky]

I would leave FBS and the SB for an MVC basketball invite. Would be interesting if this was offered to WKU before they moved to CUSA.

[Cocky]

I'm pro JSU moving to FBS. Our only conference choice would be the SB. A conference championship would be easier to achieve than a FCS National Championship.

[dgtw]

I'm pro JSU moving to FBS. Our only conference choice would be the SB. A conference championship would be easier to achieve than a FCS National Championship.

I'd prefer being in the Sun Belt for everything, I'd just as soon stay in FCS than having sports split between two leagues. The MVC has good basketball, but it is a lot of travel for the other Olympic sports.

[superman7515]

In what raiting?

Sagarin 2012-13 final

Sunbelt 21
MVC 9
CUSA 11

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/ncaab/sagarin/2013/conference/


RPI 2012-13 final

Sunbelt 15
CUSA 11
MVC 9

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/bracketology/conference/rpi/2012-13


http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_conf_Men.html

[Twentysix]

http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_conf_Men.html

Kind of iffy using something like that when it isn't a final. It will shift considerably.

[clenz]

http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_conf_Men.html
The MVC is still a head of both - with the loss of Creighton - and by a rather large margin.

Since 03 the MVC's average RPI finish is like 8-9.

Sun Belt is about 19-20

CUSA is 10ish.

[superman7515]

Kind of iffy using something like that when it isn't a final. It will shift considerably.

I understand it isn't final, that's kind of the of the point of it being "real time". But you said "is" not "was" so I was under the impression you were speaking of this season and just wanted to post the numbers. My bad.

[Skjellyfetti]

Hmmmmmmm. Sounds awfully familiar. xlolx


Wide receiver Malachi Jones (Lawrenceville, Ga./Central Gwinnett) put up some monster numbers as a senior and grabbed the attention of a few schools. One was Appalachian State, which he visited this weekend.

"He committed to Appalachian State this morning," said Todd Wofford, Central Gwinnett's coach. "They are moving to Conference USA in two seasons, and he wanted to be a part of that. He loves their facilities, the guys on the team and the stadium. He likes how they spread the ball out and says he can come in a make an immediate impact."

http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/ncfrecruiting/southeast/post?id=2448&action=upsell&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fblo g%2fnc%E2%80%8Bfrecruiting%2fsoutheast%2fpost%3fid %3d2448

[Twentysix]

I understand it isn't final, that's kind of the of the point of it being "real time". But you said "is" not "was" so I was under the impression you were speaking of this season and just wanted to post the numbers. My bad.

Yeah, "would be" would have been better wording, since it is conditional tense. My bad.

[MplsBison]

CUSA already has two more members than they need, since 12 is the requirement for hosting a championship game (and even that may be abolished per the Big XII).

Even if Navy backs out of the American and they take one more from the core five remaining in the CUSA (SoMiss, UAB, Marshall, Rice, UTEP) would the CUSA take JMU or look for another Sun Belt team? None of the remaining SB options are great (either very small market teams or big market, new teams that may not even be better than JMU).

[marenlee]

The MVC is still a head of both - with the loss of Creighton - and by a rather large margin.

Since 03 the MVC's average RPI finish is like 8-9.

Sun Belt is about 19-20

CUSA is 10ish.

Ummm... Maybe I'm retarded. But where is the American Athletic Conference in that list?

[clenz]

What does the AAC have to do with this?


If you are asking where they fall, so far, this year...

They don't appear on RealTimeRPI this season - don't know why

According to one site that I can find them on they are 7th...

Boosted greatly by a team that won't be there after this season.

[93henfan]

That will be a nice rivalry with Old Dominion so close. Good for both fan bases and a better deal than UMass worked.

I think ECU will be the more natural rival for NoDU, as Greenville, NC is an hour closer than Harrisonburg, VA to Norfolk.

[frozennorth]

the aac, sunbelt, and cusa need to all be abolished and a new set of geographically coherent conferences made. One on the NE/Mid atlantic/midwest (uconn umass cincy temple army navy marshall etc) one in the southeast (gsu asu troy etc) and one in the plains/southwest (UNT, tulsa, rice, utep, nmsu etc)

Because right now all three of those conferences suck.

[SIUSalukiFan]

Missouri State to the MAC? I'm not sure I've ever heard that before. I can believe the Sun Belt possibility, though.

[mainejeff]

I wonder if UMass will get an invite to the AAC after Central Florida and Cincinnati leave for the Big 12?

[zilla]

If/when JMU moves to FBS, which school will fill their void in the CAA???

[superman7515]

Well, Monmouth needs a conference. xsmhx

[superman7515]

And yes, I'm aware that they're in the Big South, but even they are hoping not to be there for too long.

[Tribal]

JMU coaches/recruiters have historically made promises they didn't keep.

[hebmskebm]

Well, Monmouth needs a conference. xsmhx

Actually, that is plausible

CAA North
1. Maine
2. UNH
3. URI
4. Albany
5. SBU
6. Monmouth

CAA South
1. Nova
2. Delaware
3. Towson
4. W&M
5. Richmond
6. Elon

[MplsBison]

I wonder if UMass will get an invite to the AAC after Central Florida and Cincinnati leave for the Big 12?

If the Big XII was forced to go to 12 members to get a championship game (which I doubt they will be) and knowing that they can't go after any current ACC schools anymore, I'm certain that many high up folks in Texas politics would fight hard to see Houston (new stadium) and SMU (new-ish stadium) reunited with former SWC members Baylor and TCU.

Not that it would happen, but I'm just saying they'd put up a fight.

BYU would also be in the mix and maybe some other MWC schools (Colorado St? New Mexico?)


But Cincy would make a lot of sense to bridge the gap to West Virginia. No way for South or Central Florida or UConn.

[MplsBison]

Actually, that is plausible

CAA North
1. Maine
2. UNH
3. URI
4. Albany
5. SBU
6. Monmouth

CAA South
1. Nova
2. Delaware
3. Towson
4. W&M
5. Richmond
6. Elon

How does the north in this alignment not break off as America East football??? Makes too much sense and guarantees an auto bid for the Northern schools amongst themselves, not having to worry about it always going to the southern schools.

[superman7515]

Actually, that is plausible

Oh I'm quite aware that it's plausible. That's what is so sad about it.

[superman7515]

How does the north in this alignment not break off as America East football??? Makes too much sense and guarantees an auto bid for the Northern schools amongst themselves, not having to worry about it always going to the southern schools.

Although not a given, certainly more realistic now that Boston U is gone. UMass Lowell would be a good one to start football and get them up to speed.

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

How does the north in this alignment not break off as America East football??? Makes too much sense and guarantees an auto bid for the Northern schools amongst themselves, not having to worry about it always going to the southern schools.

Many of the CAA North schools would have a time difficult scheduling a strong OOC if we were independent of the CAA south schools, heck Maine struggles with it now.
Maine and UNH would not be high on the list of destination locations for a W&M or Richmond. We also like the added exposure in the footprint of the "CAA South"
UNH has done a nice job with its OOC and the past and have a strong next couple years already scheduled, but increasing the OOC from three games to six would be a scheduling nightmare.

[knucklehead]

And yes, I'm aware that they're in the Big South, but even they are hoping not to be there for too long.

They are not the only ones in that boat. haha

[jmufan999]

JMU coaches/recruiters have historically made promises they didn't keep.

JMU is the only school that does this? Noted.

[Tribal]

JMU is the only school that does this? Noted.

No, of course not but that's not what I said, either. JMU isn't the only school but I know with absolute certainty that some JMU recruiters told certain kids things that they had no interest in honoring.

With Mickey gone, maybe JMU will shed the "false promises" label but that's TBD. My post wasn't a slam on your school...just a fact about your previous regime.

[fc97]

How does the north in this alignment not break off as America East football??? Makes too much sense and guarantees an auto bid for the Northern schools amongst themselves, not having to worry about it always going to the southern schools.

then why did the great west fail then? all those tightly knit schools in one conference scattered into bigger, more established leagues.

couple that with you don't understand anything on the east coast.... and it's another good post of you dont know what youre talking about.

-again-

[Dane96]

the aac, sunbelt, and cusa need to all be abolished and a new set of geographically coherent conferences made. One on the NE/Mid atlantic/midwest (uconn umass cincy temple army navy marshall etc) one in the southeast (gsu asu troy etc) and one in the plains/southwest (UNT, tulsa, rice, utep, nmsu etc)

Because right now all three of those conferences suck.

So much so that UCF manhandled Baylor and Louisville dominated Miami? Been hearing it for years about the Big East-Now AAC football teams. They are now 9-7 in BCS games.

[Dane96]

And yes, I'm aware that they're in the Big South, but even they are hoping not to be there for too long.

It would be interesting, however everything we heard during the UA process was that Monmouth needs at least 8000 seats before the CAA will look that way.

[Dane96]

How does the north in this alignment not break off as America East football??? Makes too much sense and guarantees an auto bid for the Northern schools amongst themselves, not having to worry about it always going to the southern schools.

This alignment was presented years ago, and again a few years ago. D.O.A.

[walliver]

So much so that UCF manhandled Baylor and Louisville dominated Miami? Been hearing it for years about the Big East-Now AAC football teams. They are now 9-7 in BCS games.

Of course, Louisville will be playing in the ACC next year. I'm sure Tulane will pick up the slack though.

[ASUMountaineer]

I think ECU will be the more natural rival for NoDU, as Greenville, NC is an hour closer than Harrisonburg, VA to Norfolk.

ECU is moving to the AAC next year. ODU and ECU will not be conference rivals.

[Danielr11220]

If/when JMU moves to FBS, which school will fill their void in the CAA???
How about Central Connecticut State University?

[Dane96]

Of course, Louisville will be playing in the ACC next year. I'm sure Tulane will pick up the slack though.

Your missing the point- commenter said the conference has sucked for years. Fact is actually WRONG.

- - - Updated - - -

Leave this to Ace, however I'm not sure the current alignment of the CAA (even with a move by JMU to FBS) fits the financial expenditures of CCSU.

[MplsBison]

Although not a given, certainly more realistic now that Boston U is gone. UMass Lowell would be a good one to start football and get them up to speed.

I wasn't suggesting other AE schools starting football.

Just to get an autobid for the northern schools and have their own conference where they look out for themselves.

[MplsBison]

Many of the CAA North schools would have a time difficult scheduling a strong OOC if we were independent of the CAA south schools, heck Maine struggles with it now.
Maine and UNH would not be high on the list of destination locations for a W&M or Richmond. We also like the added exposure in the footprint of the "CAA South"
UNH has done a nice job with its OOC and the past and have a strong next couple years already scheduled, but increasing the OOC from three games to six would be a scheduling nightmare.

Already way ahead of you, because I've already thought of this for the Summit/MVC football split.

Basically you have two 6-team conferences, which is only five conference games (unless you play teams twice - not a good option). So the obvious, basically required solution is to have a scheduling alliance with the other conference. You play three teams from the other conference one year (or home/home) and then the other three the next year (or home/home - four years total cycle).

That gets you back to eight conference games.

[MplsBison]

then why did the great west fail then? all those tightly knit schools in one conference scattered into bigger, more established leagues.

couple that with you don't understand anything on the east coast.... and it's another good post of you dont know what youre talking about.

-again-

Tightly knit??

That's what you call: two teams from the Dakotas (first NDSU/SDSU, later replaced by UND/USD), a team in Utah and two teams in California??

Wow. I guess you really are on the east coast.

[MplsBison]

This alignment was presented years ago, and again a few years ago. D.O.A.

I can taste the panic in your post. The cold sweat on your forehead is palpable.

"Nooo!! We just got to the CAA!! Albany football is legitmized by having that CAA patch on our uniforms!!! Noooo!!!!!"

Bunk.


It's not the CAA anymore - hence why you got invited in the first place. Not what it was. Especially when JMU leaves.

So really, having Delaware, Towson (former America East teams, no less), Richmond, Elon, Villanova & W&M come up to Albany legitimizes your program?

Bunk.

[Redbirdz]

Actually Jax State would be good for Troy in the Sunbelt. The two used to be fierce rivals and would bring sell out crowds to each other's stadiums. It would also be a good travel partner for South Alabama. My guess is JSU would be good to go. It certainly has one of the best football stadiums in the FCS and would be a great place to play in the SB.

[Redbirdz]

Jax State actually would be good for Troy in the Sunbelt. The two used to be fierce rivals and would bring sell-out crowds to each other's stadiums. It would also be a good travel partner for South Alabama. My guess is JSU would be good to go. It certainly has one of the best football stadiums in FCS and it would also be a great place to play for the SB.

For Troy to object would kind of like Alabama not wanting to play Auburn. (Wait, that might not be a such a bad idea).

[dgtw]

Jax State would also be a good draw for Georgia State, which would be their closest Sun Belt rival along with a lot of JSU alums in the Atlanta area. If GSU ever gets it going they'd both bring big crowds for road games.

[MplsBison]

Jax State would also be a good draw for Georgia State, which would be their closest Sun Belt rival along with a lot of JSU alums in the Atlanta area. If GSU ever gets it going they'd both bring big crowds for road games.

But would JSU's president and AD be able to convince the Sun Belt presidents and Benson given the modern conference expansion school of thought that prospective new members must be located in new, large markets?

[aceinthehole]

Leave this to Ace, however I'm not sure the current alignment of the CAA (even with a move by JMU to FBS) fits the financial expenditures of CCSU.

Thanks, and you're right. If JMU leaves the CAA, Central Connecticut might be able to make that move for football only. I'm not 100% we could afford it (I'm getting some mixed messages from my sources), but if URI can do it, I think CCSU could make it work as well.

Anyway, affordability aside, CCSU to CAA Football can only happen with the 100% support of all the AE schools. CCSU can not make this change without putting its other sports in America East because I just can't see us staying in the NEC for everything else. So, for anyone one wanting to read the tea leaves on CCSU's likelihood to backfill JMU, I would expect you would hear some rumors out of Boston before anything bubbled up in Virginia.

[MplsBison]

Thanks, and you're right. If JMU leaves the CAA, Central Connecticut might be able to make that move for football only. I'm not 100% we could afford it (I'm getting some mixed messages from my sources), but if URI can do it, I think CCSU could make it work as well.

Anyway, affordability aside, CCSU to CAA Football can only happen with the 100% support of all the AE schools. CCSU can not make this change without putting its other sports in America East because I just can't see us staying in the NEC for everything else. So, for anyone one wanting to read the tea leaves on CCSU's likelihood to backfill JMU, I would expect you would hear some rumors out of Boston before anything bubbled up in Virginia.

With Hartford being the only private school left in the AE, why not swap them with the NEC for CCSU? That leaves the AE with just larger publics or state flagships in the NE and gives five football teams in the conference.

Bing, Vermont, Lowell and Baltimore County could potentially (re)start football one day, but in the meantime perhaps Towson and Delaware would dump the remnants of the ECAC South and come back to the AE to finally realize their dreams of a single conference for all sports. They don't have it now via the Yankee football conf and ECAC South for the rest. Both the AE and the CAA are one bid teams for men's bball, so no loss there.

[Danielr11220]

With Hartford being the only private school left in the AE, why not swap them with the NEC for CCSU? That leaves the AE with just larger publics or state flagships in the NE and gives five football teams in the conference.

Bing, Vermont, Lowell and Baltimore County could potentially (re)start football one day, but in the meantime perhaps Towson and Delaware would dump the remnants of the ECAC South and come back to the AE to finally realize their dreams of a single conference for all sports. They don't have it now via the Yankee football conf and ECAC South for the rest. Both the AE and the CAA are one bid teams for men's bball, so no loss there.


I agree the nec should trade ccsu for Hartford. Making the NEC an all private school conference the America East would be all public, They probably could add NJIT as well. The conference could form a working relationship that leads to an albeit smaller challenge series like the acc big ten challenge in bball

[Tribe93]

The CAA will never accept CCSU for football only.

[UNHWildcat18]

As much as id like to see a caa school in Connecticut, even with the upgrades to arute I really just don't see it. Or Monmouth for that matter. Besides SB AlB UNH UM URI Nova in currently I don't see any possible schools Joining from Pennsylvania New York New Jersey or New England. That could move from PL or NEC or start up for that matter IMO

[Redbirdz]

But would JSU's president and AD be able to convince the Sun Belt presidents and Benson given the modern conference expansion school of thought that prospective new members must be located in new, large markets?

JSU is in a triangle between Birmingham, Chattanooga and Atlanta and is a bigger media market already than Troy. Atlanta is only 90 miles away, Birmingham 60.

[SU DOG]

Jax State actually would be good for Troy in the Sunbelt. The two used to be fierce rivals and would bring sell-out crowds to each other's stadiums. It would also be a good travel partner for South Alabama. My guess is JSU would be good to go. It certainly has one of the best football stadiums in FCS and it would also be a great place to play for the SB.

For Troy to object would kind of like Alabama not wanting to play Auburn. (Wait, that might not be a such a bad idea).

Everything you say is right-on Redbirdz, and it would be good for the state. However, a better analogy is that Bama will play NO
instate school except Auburn. JSU Fans might be underestimating the hate from Troy for JSU. I have heard Troy folks say that they will support the Gamecocks move to the SBC when the proverbial place of the doomed freezes over. Similar(but somewhat milder) comments from USA folks. Granted, these were just fans and not officials, but I still think that JSU is in for a long wait for the invite that they hope for. Of course, times and conditions could change the situation.

[MplsBison]

The CAA will never accept CCSU for football only.

The AE would have its own football conference, so no worries there. Let's say Delaware goes back to the AE to (finally) realize its own single-conference dream and as mentioned the NEC swaps CCSU for Hartford.

That gives:

AE (ECAC North): Maine*/Vermont, UNH*/Lowell, Albany*/Bing, SB*/CCSU*, Del*/UMBC. (* football members)

CAA (ECAC South): CoC/UNCW, Elon/WM, Towson/Drexel, NE/Hofstra

CAAFC (Yankee): URI/Nova, Towson/Richmond, Elon/WM

The AE and the CAAFC would then have the scheduling alliance that I already talked about, to guarantee eight conference games for all teams. This guarantees two auto-bids as well, thus superior to keeping all football teams in the CAAFC.

[tribe_pride]

The AE would have its own football conference, so no worries there. Let's say Delaware goes back to the AE to (finally) realize its own single-conference dream and as mentioned the NEC swaps CCSU for Hartford.

That gives:

AE (ECAC North): Maine*/Vermont, UNH*/Lowell, Albany*/Bing, SB*/CCSU*, Del*/UMBC. (* football members)

CAA (ECAC South): CoC/UNCW, Elon/WM, Towson/Drexel, NE/Hofstra

CAAFC (Yankee): URI/Nova, Towson/Richmond, Elon/WM

The AE and the CAAFC would then have the scheduling alliance that I already talked about, to guarantee eight conference games for all teams. This guarantees two auto-bids as well, thus superior to keeping all football teams in the CAAFC.

In this scenario, URI either drops football or goes to the NEC if they are accepted. URI stayed in the CAA because more northeastern teams joined the CAA for football.

[MplsBison]

In this scenario, URI either drops football or goes to the NEC if they are accepted. URI stayed in the CAA because more northeastern teams joined the CAA for football.

Fine, leave Delaware in the CAA and CAAFC and put URI as football only members of the AE.


The overarching point here is that it makes zero sense to keep all the football teams under the CAAFC when you can: a) get two auto-bids and b) have a scheduling alliance.


Delaware is probably too bitter to go back to the AE anyway.


The key for the AE teams getting their own auto-bid is getting CCSU and URI football teams to join up with SB, UA, UNH and Maine, then negotiating the scheduling alliance with the remaining CAAFC teams. I suppose that could be done without just the football teams and not swapping Hartford and CC.

[Tribe4SF]

The AE would have its own football conference, so no worries there. Let's say Delaware goes back to the AE to (finally) realize its own single-conference dream and as mentioned the NEC swaps CCSU for Hartford.

That gives:

AE (ECAC North): Maine*/Vermont, UNH*/Lowell, Albany*/Bing, SB*/CCSU*, Del*/UMBC. (* football members)

CAA (ECAC South): CoC/UNCW, Elon/WM, Towson/Drexel, NE/Hofstra

CAAFC (Yankee): URI/Nova, Towson/Richmond, Elon/WM

The AE and the CAAFC would then have the scheduling alliance that I already talked about, to guarantee eight conference games for all teams. This guarantees two auto-bids as well, thus superior to keeping all football teams in the CAAFC.

Will this silliness never end? The CAA holds the cards in football, and has no interest in splitting up the conference. If JMU leaves there are still eleven football members, and the conference will continue to consider a twelfth team. Auto bids aside, the league will remain a 3-5 playoff team probability which won't change for these schools with an additional auto bid. What we need to do is get Stony Brook and Albany in as all-sport members.

[MplsBison]

Will this silliness never end? The CAA holds the cards in football, and has no interest in splitting up the conference. If JMU leaves there are still eleven football members, and the conference will continue to consider a twelfth team. Auto bids aside, the league will remain a 3-5 playoff team probability which won't change for these schools with an additional auto bid. What we need to do is get Stony Brook and Albany in as all-sport members.

Nope. AE schools hold the power when JMU leaves and they want their own auto-bid.

The mid-Atlantic teams can have their own under the CAA.

[MplsBison]

JSU is in a triangle between Birmingham, Chattanooga and Atlanta and is a bigger media market already than Troy. Atlanta is only 90 miles away, Birmingham 60.

All good, but irrelevant points. It adds nothing to the Sun Belt TV market footprint.

That's what they'll say, anyway.

[tribe_pride]

Nope. AE schools hold the power when JMU leaves and they want their own auto-bid.

The mid-Atlantic teams can have their own under the CAA.

The AE had their chance to grab the power but rejected it when they voted against taking in a number of CAA teams 13 years ago. Have you heard something specific recently that has changed things besides a random poster who said something different?

[UNHWildcat18]

I don't know why people think the teams will split and AE will make a league. I Hope SBU and ALB do NOT leave for CAA all sports but the AE-4 want to be in a football conference with URI UD VU TU UR and W&M, they could care less about Elon(horrible addition in football they honestly suck and have sucked for a while) and if JMU leaves well not much they can do. They aren't going to add CCSU and Bryant to make a conference of their own. They want the highest possible level of FCS play and branding.

[aceinthehole]

The CAA will never accept CCSU for football only.

Not that I disagree, but can you explain Elon? I would have never thought the CAA would add Elon either, but they did.

[fc97]

Not that I disagree, but can you explain Elon? I would have never thought the CAA would add Elon either, but they did.

a number of the schools wanted a southern school and davidson was the first choice, elon was a failsafe. the caa has otehr options that they are going after for when jmu leaves. none of this is unknowns to anyone that is or has been around the caa. elon joined knowing what jmu was going to do and the conference brought in charleston and elon knowing what jmu was going to do.

this is business and nothing more.

[fc97]

here's an idea. stop listening to mplsbison.

he's been wrong on everything about the caa, ae, patriot and socon so far. why would anyone listen to him now? he posts all this same stuff on every board under different usernames and then cites himself on these other boards to prove that he knows what he's talking about.

he's the source of all his own made up information.

[Dane96]

Nope. AE schools hold the power when JMU leaves and they want their own auto-bid.

The mid-Atlantic teams can have their own under the CAA.\

News to us, you know the people who actually have relationships with our schools.

[zilla]

Will Coastal ever get a look from the Colonial?

[superman7515]

I'd rather have Coastal Carolina than some of the other options that have been bandied about. None of them are perfect,and Coastal is not without its warts; while they're decent at football and baseball, they are terrible for men's & women's basketball. The men's team would be ranked 8th in the MEAC right now and that's just not appetizing at all.

[fc97]

I'd rather have Coastal Carolina than some of the other options that have been bandied about. None of them are perfect,and Coastal is not without its warts; while they're decent at football and baseball, they are terrible for men's & women's basketball. The men's team would be ranked 8th in the MEAC right now and that's just not appetizing at all.

all you have to do is look at the foia material.
app, davidson, charleston were first choices
albany, elon were second choices

so far 2.5 of those are in

they knew odu and gmu were leaving, and all indications point that they know jmu is leaving

the other options that we know have been pursued, can be pursued or are being pursued: fairfield, uncg, furman, hampton, ccu, stony brook.

other foia material shows that uncg is in dicussions and albany most likely accepts full membership this summer.

so, all this points to is that mplsbison is wrong.

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I'd rather have Coastal Carolina than some of the other options that have been bandied about. None of them are perfect,and Coastal is not without its warts; while they're decent at football and baseball, they are terrible for men's & women's basketball. The men's team would be ranked 8th in the MEAC right now and that's just not appetizing at all.all you have to do is look at the foia material.app, davidson, charleston were first choicesalbany, elon were second choicesso far 2.5 of those are inthey knew odu and gmu were leaving, and all indications point that they know jmu is leavingthe other options that we know have been pursued, can be pursued or are being pursued: fairfield, uncg, furman, hampton, ccu, stony brook.other foia material shows that uncg is in dicussions and albany most likely accepts full membership this summer.so, all this points to is that mplsbison is wrong.

[superman7515]

And that has absolutely nothing to do with what I said, so I'm confused as to why you quoted my post, haha.

[mainejeff]

America East holds no power in ANYTHING. They will never sponsor football.......and will be lucky to hold on to the schools that they currently have.

That being said........I think that with Albany already being in the CAA for football and the very real possibility of JMU leaving the CAA for all sports.......it is probably less likely that Albany leaves America East for the all-sports CAA. The CAA will go after Furman hard IMO........and if they can't get them then Coastal Carolina is probably next on the list. The CAA needs schools from Virginia and South to fill it's all-sports roster if/when JMU leaves. The prospect of sending minor sports programs on long road trips that far South just to join another 1 bid basketball conference with a $1 million buyout is probably not going to be too attractive to schools from the Northeast no matter how unattractive America East seems.........

[Dane96]

Yup. Agreed.

[MplsBison]

America East holds no power in ANYTHING. They will never sponsor football.......and will be lucky to hold on to the schools that they currently have.

That being said........I think that with Albany already being in the CAA for football and the very real possibility of JMU leaving the CAA for all sports.......it is probably less likely that Albany leaves America East for the all-sports CAA. The CAA will go after Furman hard IMO........and if they can't get them then Coastal Carolina is probably next on the list. The CAA needs schools from Virginia and South to fill it's all-sports roster if/when JMU leaves. The prospect of sending minor sports programs on long road trips that far South just to join another 1 bid basketball conference with a $1 million buyout is probably not going to be too attractive to schools from the Northeast no matter how unattractive America East seems.........

Thanks for this well written and obviously correct post. No AE schools are going to swap 1-bid leagues with the CAA at this point.

That said, even you and Dane96 have to agree that I have the correct point: all other things being equal, does it make more sense to have 12 teams under one conference with one auto-bid and no guarantee that AE football teams will have equal access to that auto-bid or does it make more sense for the AE teams have an auto-bid to themselves, guaranteeing access while sacrificing nothing else and still having eight games a year guaranteed (three from the CAA schools per year).

I've already explained how easy it would be.

[MplsBison]

News to us, you know the people who actually have relationships with our schools.

Common sense, my man. When the argument makes that much sense, surely those in positions to make decisions are already discussing it at this very moment.

[MplsBison]

I don't know why people think the teams will split and AE will make a league. I Hope SBU and ALB do NOT leave for CAA all sports but the AE-4 want to be in a football conference with URI UD VU TU UR and W&M, they could care less about Elon(horrible addition in football they honestly suck and have sucked for a while) and if JMU leaves well not much they can do. They aren't going to add CCSU and Bryant to make a conference of their own. They want the highest possible level of FCS play and branding.

You still play those six teams, three one year and three the next (or four years if they do home/home).

The only thing that changes is now you don't have to share the auto-bid with them.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

Common sense, my man. When the argument makes that much sense, surely those in positions to make decisions are already discussing it at this very moment.


You still play those six teams, three one year and three the next (or four years if they do home/home).

The only thing that changes is now you don't have to share the auto-bid with them.

If it was so much of a no brainer, then why is it that it hasn't happened and you don't ever hear any rumblings of it happening?

Maybe it's because that scheduling alliance you talk about would never happen. The CAA would find other teams and be a nine member league and with most playing a FBS game, there would only be two OOC games per season. Richmond and W&M would continue to schedule local teams (VMI, Liberty, Norfolk State, Hampton, etc.) for those other two games. Delaware will continue to demand home games for their OOC games. Pretty safe to say that Andy Talley isn't bringing Villanova up to Durham for an OOC game. Why would Elon want OOC games with schools in New England and New York when they'd have so many options in the Carolinas and Virginia?

I'm with Tribe4SF, can we just stop this silliness!

[fc97]

in other words, it makes sense to mplsbison, so no more explanation needed. no truth about conference setup needed. no explanation on alumni demographics needed. it just simply, _is_

duh!

[MplsBison]

If it was so much of a no brainer, then why is it that it hasn't happened and you don't ever hear any rumblings of it happening?

Maybe it's because that scheduling alliance you talk about would never happen. The CAA would find other teams and be a nine member league and with most playing a FBS game, there would only be two OOC games per season. Richmond and W&M would continue to schedule local teams (VMI, Liberty, Norfolk State, Hampton, etc.) for those other two games. Delaware will continue to demand home games for their OOC games. Pretty safe to say that Andy Talley isn't bringing Villanova up to Durham for an OOC game. Why would Elon want OOC games with schools in New England and New York when they'd have so many options in the Carolinas and Virginia?

I'm with Tribe4SF, can we just stop this silliness!

Your contention is that the remaining six CAA football teams (Del, Nova, Tow, W&M, Rich, Elon) will add three teams from the Big South and refuse to schedule any teams from the AE?

Nonsense.


Like I said, you're thinking about this in the wrong context.

Try to think about it like this: it's exactly the same thing as if the 12 teams were all still in the CAAFC, just with two auto-bids (one for the ECAC South schools and one for the ECAC North schools). It's fair and it makes sense.

[Tribe4SF]

Please ignore this guy.

http://i1367.photobucket.com/albums/r798/Tribe4SF/i-love-it-when-you-call-me-big-pontificator_zps3baeddfd.jpg

[MplsBison]

Interestingly enough, the scenario I'm describing could've already been in place.

When Northeastern moved to the CAA, giving that conference six football playing members, they decided to sponser football since they now had the minimum number of teams required.

The A10 would've likewise been left with six teams, three A10 members in UMass, URI and Richmond and then UNH, Maine and Nova.

This could've remained and a scheduling alliance agreed upon between the two conferences to guarantee eight games per year.


But then the CAA invited Richmond, who wanted to play against W&M and JMU and once that happened all the teams switched over.


But now of course it's difference because SB and Albany are from the same conference as UNH and Maine. Add CCSU (football only or all-sports) and convince URI to stick with the Northern schools (shouldn't be hard) and viola!

[fc97]

you know why none of them will do it? try to get this through your thick head.

a conference with 6 teams is too risky. breaking the caa like that will cause problems between schools and who instigates it (because it wouldn't be the current caa schools that do). 6 teams is a risk. this drops the caa to 6 schools, ae to 6 schools and nec to 6 schools. if any member changes then, it is a loss of the automatic bid. no school, or conference, is going to sponsor the sport and lose money to take that risk.

the only benefit you pose is an extra automatic-bid, while the risk you pose far exceeds that. the nec still has an automatic bid and the caa will always have multiple bids. so, the only point you make is pointless.

plus, you also assume that albany isn't going to become and all-sports caa member this year as all indications point.

[fc97]

as i keep saying and mplsbison keeps ignoring. why don't you stay out of east coast conference decisions that you don't understand and start your own threads about getting the great west conference back together because it makes more travel sense. i dont see how you can argue any of this out of one side of your mouth without talking about your own school's situation.

[MplsBison]

Despite your aversion to the English language (such as proper punctuation or using any form of capitalization), you make a semi-reasonable point about risk at six teams.

However, if forming a six team conference is too risky to undertake - why was the CAA willing to move forward at six teams in the first place? They were going to form, Richmond or no.

I could understand perhaps that Delaware ram-rodded its own agenda down everyone's throats, but would be curious to know if you have another answer.

[fc97]

Despite your aversion to the English language (such as proper punctuation or using any form of capitalization), you make a semi-reasonable point about risk at six teams.

However, if forming a six team conference is too risky to undertake - why was the CAA willing to move forward at six teams in the first place? They were going to form, Richmond or no.

I could understand perhaps that Delaware ram-rodded its own agenda down everyone's throats, but would be curious to know if you have another answer.

because the caa knew they could poach teams from other conferences. that had already been in discussions with elon and liberty prior.

[MplsBison]

because the caa knew they could poach teams from other conferences. that had already been in discussions with elon and liberty prior.

Are you claiming that the CAA was having membership discussions with Elon and Liberty in 2007? Not that I don't believe you, but I'm just worried you're conflating this issue with more recent expansion efforts.


But likewise, since the NEC and Big South ultimately don't matter in the FCS world, I don't see any reason that the CAA and the new AE conferences couldn't both pick off a 7th or even 8th member from those two conferences.

There should be new move-ups (North Alabama, West Georgia? Pioneer teams?) so it's not like those conferences are doomed either.

[fc97]

Are you claiming that the CAA was having membership discussions with Elon and Liberty in 2007? Not that I don't believe you, but I'm just worried you're conflating this issue with more recent expansion efforts.


But likewise, since the NEC and Big South ultimately don't matter in the FCS world, I don't see any reason that the CAA and the new AE conferences couldn't both pick off a 7th or even 8th member from those two conferences.

There should be new move-ups (North Alabama, West Georgia? Pioneer teams?) so it's not like those conferences are doomed either.

the caa first had discussions with elon and liberty in 2000 and then again later before the big south even sponsored football as well as others. in fact, there was a supposed near miss of exodus from the socon to the caa before as well.

because, again, what i am saying is that the ae and caa need to break for this to happen. and this break has to be a mutual break for schools to keep playing and no penalties paid to leave the caa, otherwise schools will simply play the politics card and not play one another. there are 6 caa north teams, to poach a nec team means to poach a school from a conference that you need to use for out of conference opponents. this is where your "idea" falls apart.

none of this is new, and none of this helps anyone in the caa to do anything with. you'll see albany as all sports and another southern school before you'll see a breakup for the caa football as it stands now.

and sure, those conferences would be doomed. the big south has 6 members now, one of which is leaving and monmouth is coming back. i'll be interested to see if the ncaa enforces there 6 teams of the same teams for 2 years mandate to qualify for the automatic bid.

[Sandlapper Spike]

the caa first had discussions with elon and liberty in 2000 and then again later before the big south even sponsored football as well as others. in fact, there was a supposed near miss of exodus from the socon to the caa before as well.


The CAA went after the SoCon twice, actually -- in 1996 and (more seriously) in 2000. The 2000 attempt failed, rather spectacularly, when Richmond surprised Tom Yeager and co. by jumping to the A-10. I think it is doubtful that he could have pulled off the big switcheroo anyway. You never know, though.

[fc97]

The CAA went after the SoCon twice, actually -- in 1996 and (more seriously) in 2000. The 2000 attempt failed, rather spectacularly, when Richmond surprised Tom Yeager and co. by jumping to the A-10. I think it is doubtful that he could have pulled off the big switcheroo anyway. You never know, though.

i remember the 2000 slot, which is the first round of going after elon and liberty who, at the time, balked at it because they needed a football home first. who in the socon was involved in 1996 and 2000. the 2000 group i remember being furman, charleston and maybe the citadel (but seemed like 4-6 schools). who was in the 1996 group?

[fc97]

mplsbison. look. answer one question.

why dont you do this same stuff with the western group of fcs schools? wouldn't a conference of und, ndsu, usd, sdsu, ssu and unc make more sense than splitting everyone up between the big sky and mvfc? i mean, the same logic lies here. but you never focus on that. the great west made more sense by your logic than the setup that exists now.

- - - Updated - - -

mplsbison. look. answer one question.

why dont you do this same stuff with the western group of fcs schools? wouldn't a conference of und, ndsu, usd, sdsu, ssu and unc make more sense than splitting everyone up between the big sky and mvfc? i mean, the same logic lies here. but you never focus on that. the great west made more sense by your logic than the setup that exists now, by your logic.

[Sandlapper Spike]

i remember the 2000 slot, which is the first round of going after elon and liberty who, at the time, balked at it because they needed a football home first. who in the socon was involved in 1996 and 2000. the 2000 group i remember being furman, charleston and maybe the citadel (but seemed like 4-6 schools). who was in the 1996 group?

1996: The Citadel, VMI, Furman, Davidson
2000: The Citadel, VMI, Furman, Davidson, Wofford, UNC-Greensboro, College of Charleston

I wrote about some of the history of this a while back, if anyone's interested... L (http://thesportsarsenal.com/2013/05/07/conference-realignment-socon-style-history-repeats-itself/)ink (http://thesportsarsenal.com/2013/05/07/conference-realignment-socon-style-history-repeats-itself/)

[UNHWildcat18]

I wonder however, if JMU leaves how will the northern schools feel about the conference adding in another school that is even further south like Coastal Carolina?

[fc97]

I wonder however, if JMU leaves how will the northern schools feel about the conference adding in another school that is even further south like Coastal Carolina?

it won't affect football too much, but the all sports might be. but, virginia schools have been replaced by elon, charleston and left to be seen albany. adding coastal, uncg or furman which seem like targets are still more northern than georgia state.

- - - Updated - - -


1996: The Citadel, VMI, Furman, Davidson
2000: The Citadel, VMI, Furman, Davidson, Wofford, UNC-Greensboro, College of Charleston

I wrote about some of the history of this a while back, if anyone's interested... L (http://thesportsarsenal.com/2013/05/07/conference-realignment-socon-style-history-repeats-itself/)ink (http://thesportsarsenal.com/2013/05/07/conference-realignment-socon-style-history-repeats-itself/)

great article, thanks! so the 2000 move could have come with elon and liberty at the time too. so, the key here, it isn't as easy to paint a picture as mplsbison was saying.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

I wonder however, if JMU leaves how will the northern schools feel about the conference adding in another school that is even further south like Coastal Carolina?

I'm sure they won't like it, but will deal with it just like they did when another all sports member that was farther South (GA State) was involved. (I'm assuming that Coastal Carolina would only join CAAF as an all sports member.) Easing things will be only having to travel down there once every four years on average. Just part of the price of playing in a strong conference rather than a weaker, more regional one. As a fan, I've got no problem going to Myrtle Beach once every four years!

[zilla]

CofC will remain the southern-most outlier of the CAA. Coastal is less than 30 minutes from the NC/SC state line & only one hour away from UNCW.

I don't think CCU would leave for the Colonial unless it was an all-sports invite.

From all I've read, if/when JMU leaves, the CAA will probably target Furman as replacement option A. We might receive some consideration if the Paladins reject such an offer. And I can't imagine a scenario where they would leave the SoCon.

[fc97]

uncg and furman are the only targets according to the foia materials. cosatal is not mentioned, nor liberty.

[Yotes]

why dont you do this same stuff with the western group of fcs schools? wouldn't a conference of und, ndsu, usd, sdsu, ssu and unc make more sense than splitting everyone up between the big sky and mvfc? i mean, the same logic lies here. but you never focus on that. the great west made more sense by your logic than the setup that exists now.
I think it would be pretty cool if the Dakota schools plus a few more regional universities formed their own conference, but that just isn't remotely likely.

[Twentysix]

I think it would be pretty cool if the Dakota schools plus a few more regional universities formed their own conference, but that just isn't remotely likely.

The conference would lack NCAA bball cash for several years (unless it could somehow be eligible right away). That would be a problem.

[UNHWildcat18]

it won't affect football too much, but the all sports might be. but, virginia schools have been replaced by elon, charleston and left to be seen albany. adding coastal, uncg or furman which seem like targets are still more northern than georgia state.

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great article, thanks! so the 2000 move could have come with elon and liberty at the time too. so, the key here, it isn't as easy to paint a picture as mplsbison was saying.


CRAP sorry haha i meant all sports not caafb

[UNHWildcat18]

I'm sure they won't like it, but will deal with it just like they did when another all sports member that was farther South (GA State) was involved. (I'm assuming that Coastal Carolina would only join CAAF as an all sports member.) Easing things will be only having to travel down there once every four years on average. Just part of the price of playing in a strong conference rather than a weaker, more regional one. As a fan, I've got no problem going to Myrtle Beach once every four years!

Yeah my bad I meant all sports not the football conference, caafb I agree wouldn't matter much IMO.

[fc97]

I think it would be pretty cool if the Dakota schools plus a few more regional universities formed their own conference, but that just isn't remotely likely.

of course it isn't! it was an entirely tongue in cheek remark. mplsbison focuses all these efforts into demanding how other schools should form conferences yet doesn't post anything about his own.

[zilla]

uncg and furman are the only targets according to the foia materials. cosatal is not mentioned, nor liberty.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Furman would be the top choice. However, they've been in the SoCon forever (since the 1920s or 1930s). I just don't see them breaking ties with the Southern...but crazier things have happened.

The CAA would need an all-sports, football member if JMU departs, right? Probably a school from the South??? So aside from the schools mentioned in the FOIA report, who would be the Colonial's targets? Coastal??? Wofford maybe?

[walliver]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Furman would be the top choice. However, they've been in the SoCon forever (since the 1920s or 1930s). I just don't see them breaking ties with the Southern...but crazier things have happened.

The CAA would need an all-sports, football member if JMU departs, right? Probably a school from the South??? So aside from the schools mentioned in the FOIA report, who would be the Colonial's targets? Coastal??? Wofford maybe?

Coastal would be the obvious choice. It is reasonably close to CofC and UNC-W for most sports. Coastal has also been vocal about wanting to leave the Big South for some time, and would likely tolerate being a geographic outlier in football.

I doubt the CAA would want a school as small as Wofford. Even if they chose to go that way, the CAA is not particularly attractive to Wofford for geographic reasons. Currently, FU, WCU, Citadel, ETSU, The Citadel, Chattanooga and Mercer (as well as UNCG) are within about a 4 hour drive or less. Samford and VMI are about 5 hours. In the CAA, Elon would be the only football school in that radius.

The geographic considerations for Furman are similar. Now the Paladins did tear up their grass field for a plastic field, so anything can happen. A good deal of FU's alumni live in metro Atlanta and would be much less likely to attend CAA away games.

I suspect that for any SoCon FB team to leave, it would have to be part of a package deal.