OFFICIAL 2013 WOOFED: MVFC - UNI and YSU

[CSN-info]

In an AGS tradition, this official announcement of the WOOFED team(s).


GPI AT-LARGE
5. Towson (6.00)
6. Montana (7.00)
7T. S Dakota St (8.14)
7T. McNeese St (8.14)
10. Northern Arizona (13.29)
12T. Northern Iowa (15.86)
12T. Youngstown St (15.86)
14. S Illinois (17.00)
16. Fordham (18.29)
18. Tennessee St (19.29)
19. New Hampshire (19.57)
20. Villanova (19.86)
21. Sam Houston St (20.29)

NCAA COMMITTEE AT-LARGE
Fordham
Jacksonville State
McNeese State
Montana
New Hampshire
Northern Arizona
Sam Houston State
Samford
South Carolina State
South Dakota State
Southern Utah
Tennessee State
Towson

So bitter rivals #12T Northern Iowa and #12T Youngstown State share the "WOOFED" recognition of 2013 as the highest ranked team(s) in the GPI that were passed over by the committee for playoff selection. In fact the GPI indicated an additional two teams in #14 Southern Illinois and #20 Villanova that were also not chosen. The playoff committee decided to choose #22 Jacksonville State, #30 Samford, #33 South Carolina State and #38 Southern Utah instead.

http://www.collegesportingnews.com/content.php?1022-2013-Gridiron-Power-Index-(GPI)-Regular-Season-Ends-NDSU-1-and-the-MVFC-WOOFED

A side note, most woofed teams in one year make the playoffs the next year.

This is the most the GPI rankings have ever been wronged by the playoff committee since it began in the 1990s.

[Wallace]

my god, when three indicated teams get left out in one year from the same league it is a travesty

[TypicalTribe]

A couple of quick points:

1. The term "Woofed" has nothing to do with the GPI. It came about to describe the team left out by the committee that most people thought would be included in the field. With five losses, no one really went into the final weekend expecting UNI or SIU to be included and it was largely thought that a third straight loss by YSU would leave them out. You can't be Woofed if you weren't really expected to be in.
2. Take a closer look at the GPI and one thing jumps out; neither UNI or SIU were ranked in either poll that was used. If you go back and look at the GPI, a high poll ranking will normally outweigh a high computer ranking.

[penguinpower]

Based on the criteria that is supposed to be used, both had higher rankings in the GPI than other teams that were placed and UNI also had an FBS win and the ASS Beating they put on McNeese ba win over YSU and did not get in with 7 divison 1 wins? WTF??

What happened is that if they actually followed protocl the teams they wanted to place would not have gotten in so they had to change the criteria to get the teams they wanted to get in.

[Houndawg]

Based on the criteria that is supposed to be used, both had higher rankings in the GPI than other teams that were placed and UNI also had an FBS win and the ASS Beating they put on McNeese ba win over YSU and did not get in with 7 divison 1 wins? WTF??

What happened is that if they actually followed protocl the teams they wanted to place would not have gotten in so they had to change the criteria to get the teams they wanted to get in.

Sweetheart, you're going to catch yourself the vapors if you don't let it go. Yes good teams get left out and not-so-good ones make it in and the committee uses different approaches to justify their picks. Some teams it helps and some it doesn't and I would love to have backed in now that Faulkner is back because I know we could beat most of the field, as could UNI and YSU, but that ain't the way its working this year and I can live with that because we controlled our destiny and didn't get it done. What does piss me off a little is that the criteria seem to change from team to team. A weak OOC is dissed over here but not over there. Six D1 wins hurt this team but not that team. This team played a tough schedule but that team beat one team with a winning record and gets seeded...that kind of stuff.

[dbackjon]

I guess this shows how worthless computer rankings really are. Along with the GPI

[Paladin1aa]

It shows how worthless the committee and how lacking in integrity it is.

[LeeshaJo]

Oh Good grief. I am so sick of the whining. I don't let my kids whine as much as some of you do on here.

Do I believe the MVFC is the best conference in the country, Yes!
Do I think Youngstown deserved to be in, yes. they had 8 d1 wins.
Do I think UNI deserved to be in, No.

UNI rallied/healed a little to late... you didn't have 7 let alone 8 D1 wins. Injuries decimated you. Win one of your OT games and you were in. you left it on the field. You are starting to get healthy. nobody wanted to play you. You gave them a reason to leave you out and give their conferences and teams an easier road to wins in the playoffs.

YSU, Unfortunately you ran into a what have you done for me lately, you dropped your last three and gave the committee an excuse to leave you out.
Win even one of your games or better yet play SDSU to a competitive game and you would be playing Saturday. You didn't. Again, ADs from other conferences did not want to play you, you gave them a reason to leave you out. Win and it wouldn't be an issue.

Funny thing is I think it is the NDSU fans bitching the most about the 'insult' to the valley. Personally, I hope SDSU goes out there and dominates their side of the bracket, NDSU do the same. at this point that is all we can do to prove the valley was the best. Please quit whining.

[Houndawg]

It shows how worthless the committee and how lacking in integrity it is.

You say that like it is news.

[Bisonator]

Oh Good grief. I am so sick of the whining. I don't let my kids whine as much as some of you do on here.

Do I believe the MVFC is the best conference in the country, Yes!
Do I think Youngstown deserved to be in, yes. they had 8 d1 wins.
Do I think UNI deserved to be in, No.

UNI rallied/healed a little to late... you didn't have 7 let alone 8 D1 wins. Injuries decimated you. Win one of your OT games and you were in. you left it on the field. You are starting to get healthy. nobody wanted to play you. You gave them a reason to leave you out and give their conferences and teams an easier road to wins in the playoffs.

YSU, Unfortunately you ran into a what have you done for me lately, you dropped your last three and gave the committee an excuse to leave you out.
Win even one of your games or better yet play SDSU to a competitive game and you would be playing Saturday. You didn't. Again, ADs from other conferences did not want to play you, you gave them a reason to leave you out. Win and it wouldn't be an issue.

Funny thing is I think it is the NDSU fans bitching the most about the 'insult' to the valley. Personally, I hope SDSU goes out there and dominates their side of the bracket, NDSU do the same. at this point that is all we can do to prove the valley was the best. Please quit whining.

See you wabbit fans in Frisco! xthumbsupx

[PantherRob82]

I don't think UNI or YSU deserved to be in. Who was YSU's quality win? UNI has looked awful since NDSU, win or lose.

[SIUSalukiFan]

I don't think UNI or YSU deserved to be in. Who was YSU's quality win? UNI has looked awful since NDSU, win or lose.

I'm not saying Southern Illinois should have been selected, but I still want to know how the Salukis - who beat Northern Iowa in Cedar Falls, finished with the same overall record and had two more conference wins (including one over South Dakota State) are always mentioned AFTER the Panthers.

For the record, I'm a huge believer in UNI. Just asking here ... xlolx

[RabidRabbit]

See you wabbit fans in Frisco! xthumbsupx

This, of course would be the ultimate demonstration that the MVFC, in 2013, is the dominant league.

If it happens, yes, I look forward to some time in FRISCO, trash talkin' Bizun.

Regarding the MVFC teams that weren't selected, you were ONE win from being there. SDSU played their last 4 games KNOWING that they weren't going to be selected UNLESS THEY WON OUT. It helped having that back to wall attitude. How the H did UNI let 3 OT games get by without a SINGLE W?


UNI shoulda/woulda/coulda been a top 4 seed with their 1 point loss to the Bison, ONLY. That game, and specifically the UNI injuries, unravelled a fabulous team. Both saddened and delighted that it occurred. Saddened in that UNI was the ONE team who truly pushed NDSU this season. Bison should have been beaten by the Panthers. Probably the ONLY team that had the line strength and the offense to go with the D to beat the Bison, and keep them from a 3peat. Delighted, because SDSU wouldn't be in the play-offs but for the UNI game. Further, the only other MVFC school with swaggering, full-of-themselves fans are UNI. Them and Bison fans deserve each other. Good thing that SDSU fans are nothing like that.xrolleyesx

IMHO, xsmiley_wix only McNeese is more sandbagging than SDSU. xblehx

[Grizzlies82]

After watching this for the past few decades I'd offer the following guidelines to teams who want to be in;

First, win a minimum of 9 games. Don't care how. Just do it.
Second, don't have any BAD losses. You can drop games to a ranked (or FBS) team, but don't get caught napping by a below 500 squad.
Third, finish strong. MOMENTUM has always been huge! 8-4 with seven straight wins can often trump a 9-3 team which lost three straight in November.

Even with a field of 24 teams there is little point arguing about how a five loss team should be in. When there are 12 teams with four losses, and just 4 at-large slots available, there will always be eight teams which believe they got screwed. So while a five loss squad can get in, it is so rare it isn't worth thinking about it. Finally, remember EVERY YEAR some teams are left out who are probably better than ones who got in. Accept that and move on. I know 'teams' aren't reading this but if you fans have this in mind as a season unfolds it may prepare you for the likely outcome on selection Sunday.

[Bisonator]

After watching this for the past few decades I'd offer the following guidelines to teams who want to be in;

First, win a minimum of 9 games. Don't care how. Just do it.
Second, don't have any BAD losses. You can drop games to a ranked (or FBS) team, but don't get caught napping by a below 500 squad.
Third, finish strong. MOMENTUM has always been huge! 8-4 with seven straight wins can often trump a 9-3 team which lost three straight in November.

Even with a field of 24 teams there is little point arguing about how a five loss team should be in. When there are 12 teams with four losses, and just 4 at-large slots available, there will always be eight teams which believe they got screwed. So while a five loss squad can get in, it is so rare it isn't worth thinking about it. Finally, remember EVERY YEAR some teams are left out who are probably better than ones who got in. Accept that and move on. I know 'teams' aren't reading this but if you fans have this in mind as a season unfolds it may prepare you for the likely outcome on selection Sunday.

Actually a team in this years field failed on all of those yet was still selected. Baffling I know...xcoffeex

[clenz]

Oh Good grief. I am so sick of the whining. I don't let my kids whine as much as some of you do on here.

Do I believe the MVFC is the best conference in the country, Yes!
Do I think Youngstown deserved to be in, yes. they had 8 d1 wins.
Do I think UNI deserved to be in, No.

UNI rallied/healed a little to late... you didn't have 7 let alone 8 D1 wins. Injuries decimated you. Win one of your OT games and you were in. you left it on the field. You are starting to get healthy. nobody wanted to play you. You gave them a reason to leave you out and give their conferences and teams an easier road to wins in the playoffs.

YSU, Unfortunately you ran into a what have you done for me lately, you dropped your last three and gave the committee an excuse to leave you out.
Win even one of your games or better yet play SDSU to a competitive game and you would be playing Saturday. You didn't. Again, ADs from other conferences did not want to play you, you gave them a reason to leave you out. Win and it wouldn't be an issue.

Funny thing is I think it is the NDSU fans bitching the most about the 'insult' to the valley. Personally, I hope SDSU goes out there and dominates their side of the bracket, NDSU do the same. at this point that is all we can do to prove the valley was the best. Please quit whining.

I stopped reading at saying UNI didn't have 7d1 wins.

Replace UNI with Chatty in my argument...idc.

SHSU, JSU, TSU in no way are "more deserving"than them

Sent from my S4 using Tapatalk

[Grizzlies82]

After watching this for the past few decades I'd offer the following guidelines to teams who want to be in;

First, win a minimum of 9 games. Don't care how. Just do it.
Second, don't have any BAD losses. You can drop games to a ranked (or FBS) team, but don't get caught napping by a below 500 squad.
Third, finish strong. MOMENTUM has always been huge! 8-4 with seven straight wins can often trump a 9-3 team which lost three straight in November.

Even with a field of 24 teams there is little point arguing about how a five loss team should be in. When there are 12 teams with four losses, and just 4 at-large slots available, there will always be eight teams which believe they got screwed. So while a five loss squad can get in, it is so rare it isn't worth thinking about it. Finally, remember EVERY YEAR some teams are left out who are probably better than ones who got in. Accept that and move on. I know 'teams' aren't reading this but if you fans have this in mind as a season unfolds it may prepare you for the likely outcome on selection Sunday.

I should also throw in the disclaimer that the above criteria is regarding teams from the traditional power conferences. The hurdle is ALWAYS much higher for teams from the perceived weaker conferences. Nothing is guaranteed, except win your auto-bid and you're in. Yet if a team from the CAA, MVFC, SLC, or Big Sky meets these three steps they are about 90% certain to be in the playoff mix.

[Herder]

After watching this for the past few decades I'd offer the following guidelines to teams who want to be in;

First, win a minimum of 9 games. Don't care how. Just do it.
Second, don't have any BAD losses. You can drop games to a ranked (or FBS) team, but don't get caught napping by a below 500 squad.
Third, finish strong. MOMENTUM has always been huge! 8-4 with seven straight wins can often trump a 9-3 team which lost three straight in November.

Even with a field of 24 teams there is little point arguing about how a five loss team should be in. When there are 12 teams with four losses, and just 4 at-large slots available, there will always be eight teams which believe they got screwed. So while a five loss squad can get in, it is so rare it isn't worth thinking about it. Finally, remember EVERY YEAR some teams are left out who are probably better than ones who got in. Accept that and move on. I know 'teams' aren't reading this but if you fans have this in mind as a season unfolds it may prepare you for the likely outcome on selection Sunday.

So I'll translate. Play 12 games; Play OOC games against team with losing records to avoid losses; Don't ever play and FBS game; Find your personal Panhandle; If your the 3rd place team in your conf, lobby hard for a Seed; And finally, play in the Big Sky . . . there's lots of wins in that there conf!

Let's face it, that's a great recipe! :)

[Grizzlies82]

So I'll translate. Play 12 games; Play OOC games against team with losing records to avoid losses; Don't ever play and FBS game; Find your personal Panhandle; If your the 3rd place team in your conf, lobby hard for a Seed; And finally, play in the Big Sky . . . there's lots of wins in that there conf! Let's face it, that's a great recipe! :)

Herder, I sense anger issues. Breath deeply in, then let it out slowly........... Better now? As one of the Bison faithful posted elsewhere in AGS...

FOUR of the last FIVE times a mighty MVFC team faced one of our weak ass Big Sky teams in the playoffs, those awesome MVFC teams lost. So yes, Big Sky has lots of wins.
Further this year, 6 of the 10 team MVFC have losing records. 6 of the 13 team Big Sky conference also had losing records. Does the MVC just have a better recipe for losing?
So drop the whine fest. When your boys do better than beating 20% of Big Sky teams they play, or at least half your teams aren't losers, maybe you can talk about MV superiority.

I guess you missed the point of my comments. I was simply posting what I've observed over the years. The formula above isn't perfect but it is a good guide to anticipate how likely a team is to get a playoff invite. Feel free to ignore it. If it makes you happy feel free to bitch about the Grizzlies too. Imagine they twisted the arm of the NCAA if it makes you feel better (you know they're under our thumb, don't you?). Yet realize winning 9 games, avoiding bad losses, and finishing your season strong is the best way to influence the selection committee. That is as opposed to complaining how it is unfair that your conference is sooooo tough the teams beat each other up too much.

[KUlawJack]

Herder, I sense anger issues. Breath deeply in, then let it out slowly........... Better now? As one of the Bison faithful posted elsewhere in AGS...

FOUR of the last FIVE times a mighty MVFC team faced one of our weak ass Big Sky teams in the playoffs, those awesome MVFC teams lost. So yes, Big Sky has lots of wins.
Further this year, 6 of the 10 team MVFC have losing records. 6 of the 13 team Big Sky conference also had losing records. Does the MVC just have a better recipe for losing?
So drop the whine fest. When your boys do better than beating 20% of Big Sky teams they play, or at least half your teams aren't losers, maybe you can talk about MV superiority.

I guess you missed the point of my comments. I was simply posting what I've observed over the years. The formula above isn't perfect but it is a good guide to anticipate how likely a team is to get a playoff invite. Feel free to ignore it. If it makes you happy feel free to bitch about the Grizzlies too. Imagine they twisted the arm of the NCAA if it makes you feel better (you know they're under our thumb, don't you?). Yet realize winning 9 games, avoiding bad losses, and finishing your season strong is the best way to influence the selection committee. That is as opposed to complaining how it is unfair that your conference is sooooo tough the teams beat each other up too much.

Just FYI, that isn't correct. Its five. SDSU, NDSU, SIU, UNI, and YSU all had winning records. Big Sky had 6 with losing records and 2 at .500.*

With the second bolded part, you've opened the door... xlolx

Also, I believe it was pointed out the last 4/5 argument involved BSC teams that were seeded and playing at home. I think these conference arguments are dumb, but we should have all the facts out there.

*Disclaimer - results came from ESPN.com

[dbackjon]

Anyone want to guess what the MVFC OOC record against Full-Scholarship Conferences is?

[clenz]

I know UNI was 3-0



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[dbackjon]

I know UNI was 3-0



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2-0 versus full schollie FCS

Leaving out FBS (MVFC 2-10 vs FBS).

As I have said earlier, I would have put UNI in over SHSU.

[KUlawJack]

I know UNI was 3-0



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SDSU was 2-0.

[penguinpower]

Anyone want to guess what the MVFC OOC record against Full-Scholarship Conferences is?

YSU was 2-0 vs FCS competition. Only OOC loss was to Michigan State who is going to play in the championship game.

[dbackjon]

YSU was 2-0 vs FCS competition. Only OOC loss was to Michigan State who is going to play in the championship game.

3-0 versus FCS, but 0-0 against Full Schollie. YSU beat two non-schollie, and one partial schollie teams - ie three cupcakes.

[KUlawJack]

3-0 versus FCS, but 0-0 against Full Schollie. YSU beat two non-schollie, and one partial schollie teams - ie three cupcakes.

And a bunch of the Big Sky teams play DIIs. What's the point of this?

[thebootfitter]

I guess this shows how worthless computer rankings really are. Along with the GPI
That's an odd conclusion to draw.

What can be concluded is that the apparent opinions of the selection committee are not consistent with the computer models, including the GPI, if we assume that both are attempting to identify the best teams from which to select the at-large teams.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Anyone want to guess what the MVFC OOC record against Full-Scholarship Conferences is?


Let's see: NDSU

1-0 against full scholly FCS
1-0 against D2
1-0 against Big 12 defending champ

[putter]

Don't lose 3 in a row to finish the season.....

[Grizzlies82]

Just FYI, that isn't correct. Its five. SDSU, NDSU, SIU, UNI, and YSU all had winning records. Big Sky had 6 with losing records and 2 at .500.*
With the second bolded part, you've opened the door... xlolx Also, I believe it was pointed out the last 4/5 argument involved BSC teams that were seeded and playing at home. I think these conference arguments are dumb, but we should have all the facts out there.

Good catch there KUlaw. Glad we left that door open aren't we.

So in the end the Missouri Valley & Big Sky conferences look fairly even, this year the MVFC had 50% of its teams with a losing record, Big Sky had 46%.
That is even until we compare actual playoff games played between them where the MVFC won 20% and the Big Sky beat the MV 80% of the time.*

*Disclaimer - Big Sky teams hosted playoff games since they were corrected deemed to be the better, stronger, and more talented team when compared to MVFC.

P.S. I too agree with you that these "conference" p*ssin matches are complete nonsense. In the end it is team X versus team Y, not Big Sky versus Missouri Valley.
Good Luck to your squad throughout their run. Can't wait to watch some playoff football.

[penguinpower]

Good catch there KUlaw. Glad we left that door open aren't we.

So in the end the Missouri Valley & Big Sky conferences look fairly even, this year the MVFC had 50% of its teams with a losing record, Big Sky had 46%.
That is even until we compare actual playoff games played between them where the MVFC won 20% and the Big Sky beat the MV 80% of the time.*

*Disclaimer - Big Sky teams hosted playoff games since they were corrected deemed to be the better, stronger, and more talented team when compared to MVFC.

P.S. I too agree with you that these "conference" p*ssin matches are complete nonsense. In the end it is team X versus team Y, not Big Sky versus Missouri Valley.
Good Luck to your squad throughout their run. Can't wait to watch some playoff football.

You will see the the MVFC teams will both be wrecking balls in the playoffs and then you will see that the MVFC is the better conference. The Big Sky has less parity and more doormats and that is the reason why the got more teams in.

[Grizzlies82]

You will see the the MVFC teams will both be wrecking balls in the playoffs and then you will see that the MVFC is the better conference. The Big Sky has less parity and more doormats and that is the reason why the got more teams in.

There is a fairly wide gap from the top of the Big Sky to the bottom, but "more doormats"? Did you forget half of the MVFC teams lost more than half of their games? So somehow losing records in the MV conference is a badge of honor but in the Big Sky it's a designation as a doormat.

Though there is a fair possibility the MVFC will be Big Sky wrecking balls this year. You have two tough teams playing very well at the right time. So. Dakota State should be a tough game for No. Arizona. Then if SDSU wins they get a crack at E. Washington. If both the Grizzlies and Bison win their first ones there will be yet another opportunity for the MV wrecking ball. So if the MV sweeps the Big Sky this year their playoff record would climb to 4 & 4. Though in all fairness if North Dakota State were to beat Montana we would have to put another "*" next to that one.

[Bisonator]

There is a fairly wide gap from the top of the Big Sky to the bottom, but "more doormats"? Did you forget half of the MVFC teams lost more than half of their games? So somehow losing records in the MV conference is a badge of honor but in the Big Sky it's a designation as a doormat.

Though there is a fair possibility the MVFC will be Big Sky wrecking balls this year. You have two tough teams playing very well at the right time. So. Dakota State should be a tough game for No. Arizona. Then if SDSU wins they get a crack at E. Washington. If both the Grizzlies and Bison win their first ones there will be yet another opportunity for the MV wrecking ball. So if the MV sweeps the Big Sky this year their playoff record would climb to 4 & 4. Though in all fairness if North Dakota State were to beat Montana we would have to put another "*" next to that one.

OK I'll bite. Why is that?

[JayJ79]

UNI rallied/healed a little to late... you didn't have 7 let alone 8 D1 wins.

UNI had 7 D1 wins:
1. Iowa State
2. Drake
3. Northern Colorado
4. McNeese State
5. Youngstown State
6. Missouri State
7. Western Illinois

[ValleyTalk]

YSU's motto this season was, Leave No Doubt. They motto came about after missing out on the playoffs the past 2 seasons by 1 game each year.

In 2011, YSU was a lock to make it in at 7-4 (I can confirm we would have had a home game had we won) had they beaten Missouri State the final game, they blew it and finished 6-5.
In 2012, YSU would have been in with 8 wins. They had a 4 game mid-season losing streak, finished strong winning their last 3, but it was not enough at 7-4.
In 2013, YSU would have been in with 9 wins, but lost on a last second FG to UNI and then lost to NDSU and SDSU badly, finishing with an 8-4 record.

YSU knew they were in trouble when they left it up into the hands of the committee and once again they were left out. Amazing how this year's record would have been enough the past 2 years, but of course not this year, even after they expanded the playoffs. In my research, when on the bubble, YSU has never made it to the playoffs dating back the late 1980s. The only year they may have been on the bubble was 1991 when they started the year off 4-3, but they won out, including a win on the road at #1 Georgia Southern which locked them into the playoffs.

Hope NDSU and SDSU roll into Frisco to quiet the critics of the MVFC.

GO BISON AND JACKRABBITS!

[Grizzlies82]

OK I'll bite. Why is that?
In light of the earlier posts where a distinction was made on a win by a higher seeded team playing at home. So just nonsense.

[frozennorth]

I guess this shows how worthless computer rankings really are. Along with the GPI
empirical evidence doesn't agree with your worldview, so obviously the evidence is wrong.

[frozennorth]

Herder, I sense anger issues. Breath deeply in, then let it out slowly........... Better now? As one of the Bison faithful posted elsewhere in AGS...

FOUR of the last FIVE times a mighty MVFC team faced one of our weak ass Big Sky teams in the playoffs, those awesome MVFC teams lost. So yes, Big Sky has lots of wins.
Further this year, 6 of the 10 team MVFC have losing records. 6 of the 13 team Big Sky conference also had losing records. Does the MVC just have a better recipe for losing?
So drop the whine fest. When your boys do better than beating 20% of Big Sky teams they play, or at least half your teams aren't losers, maybe you can talk about MV superiority.

I guess you missed the point of my comments. I was simply posting what I've observed over the years. The formula above isn't perfect but it is a good guide to anticipate how likely a team is to get a playoff invite. Feel free to ignore it. If it makes you happy feel free to bitch about the Grizzlies too. Imagine they twisted the arm of the NCAA if it makes you feel better (you know they're under our thumb, don't you?). Yet realize winning 9 games, avoiding bad losses, and finishing your season strong is the best way to influence the selection committee. That is as opposed to complaining how it is unfair that your conference is sooooo tough the teams beat each other up too much.
you have to learn, when people talk about the weakness of the sky, they aren't talking about Montana. Some of your conference mates mighty wins: EWU (BSC co champ) at home over 3rd place (5-3) Illinois state, and that was a game in the fourth. seeded BSC champ EWU at home over last team in the field 4-4 mvfc team NDSU, decided in overtime. Lets not forget the montana state is basically a euphemism for blowout home playoff loss.

when was the last time a valley team hosted a bsc team in the playoffs? UNI hosting MSU a decade ago? Yes Montana is going to beat the second or third best mvfc team most of the time.

[frozennorth]

There is a fairly wide gap from the top of the Big Sky to the bottom, but "more doormats"? Did you forget half of the MVFC teams lost more than half of their games? So somehow losing records in the MV conference is a badge of honor but in the Big Sky it's a designation as a doormat.

I don't think you know what doormat means. sac state and usd aren't doormats. isu-b and unc and isu-potato and und and weber are. Notice how many BCS teams I was able to list there?

[Thumper76]

Seems to me one of the big ways to make the playoffs is win two out ot your NDSU, UNI, SIU, YSU games. If one of those teams substitute SDSU. Then if you havent got a winning OOC dont lose to anybody else. If you end with three of those games in a row, you need to win at least one to keep credibility instead of being the team that just beats the lower half of the league.

Note: No research was done on this, just an observation.

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[Wallace]

my god, when three indicated teams get left out in one year from the same league it is a travesty

Funniest thing is how someone could dislike my post. xcoffeex
MTfan4life (http://www.anygivensaturday.com/member.php?u=38932) disliked this post

[FormerPokeCenter]

IMHO, xsmiley_wix only McNeese is more sandbagging than SDSU. xblehx

No, no...we're not very good at sandbagging. We're just modest fans of a modest team that has an awful lot to be modest about...

Looking at the way we got our clocks cleaned by UNI and SELA, and almost lost to a Div II, to say nothing about Lamar, I'm not sure we'll argue with anybody who says we probably don't deserve to be in the playoffs...

[Redbird Ray]

How does the top rated sagarin conference in FCS for three years in a row only get the same number of playoff bids as the MEAC and Patriot? The problem with the MVFC is the leadership at the top of the league. Illinois State gets ****ed two years ago and now a top ten YSU team gets left out. Bull****, Patty V needs to go.

[Thumper76]

No, no...we're not very good at sandbagging. We're just modest fans of a modest team that has an awful lot to be modest about...

Looking at the way we got our clocks cleaned by UNI and SELA, and almost lost to a Div II, to say nothing about Lamar, I'm not sure we'll argue with anybody who says we probably don't deserve to be in the playoffs...

Hey lets be serious for a second. SDSU only beat SELA cause they basically handed us the game with turnovers, and we would have been waxxed by UNI if they werent banged up. And YSU had their qb hurt when we played them. Oh and we really caught UND napping and barely hung on for the win there. We'll honestly be lucky to stay within 10 of NAU cause were at their place and a bunch of flatlanders. We'll be sucking wind by the end of the third with our big slow northern team. And honestly the only teams we beat staight up were the bottom of the MVFC and Butler. Plus we lost to Misery State. Who does that? I'm not sure how we made the playoffs honestly, with our resume.

Sent from my SCH-S738C using Tapatalk

[superman7515]

Since this is about the 18th thread rehashing the same stuff, let's get it back on track by saying that no teams were "Woofed" this year, that a team getting "Woofed" has never been in any shape or form related to their positioning in the GPI, and that this nonsensical posting by CSN Info is, at best, grossly ill-informed and misleading. Continue the Big Sky vs MVFC conference penis measuring contest on another thread that actually deserves our attention.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

How does the top rated sagarin conference in FCS for three years in a row only get the same number of playoff bids as the MEAC and Patriot? The problem with the MVFC is the leadership at the top of the league. Illinois State gets ****ed two years ago and now a top ten YSU team gets left out. Bull****, Patty V needs to go.


Agree here.

The TV deal for starters.

She needs to go sell used cars or something cus she is not a very good commish.

[Gil Dobie]

Since this is about the 18th thread rehashing the same stuff, let's get it back on track by saying that no teams were "Woofed" this year, that a team getting "Woofed" has never been in any shape or form related to their positioning in the GPI, and that this nonsensical posting by CSN Info is, at best, grossly ill-informed and misleading. Continue the Big Sky vs MVFC conference penis measuring contest on another thread that actually deserves our attention.

The Big Sky team actually have the records to be in the playoffs. Not sure on the Southern Conference, but they do have the legendary "Southern Speed", that the committee is well aware of.

[dbackjon]

And a bunch of the Big Sky teams play DIIs. What's the point of this?

Showing that MVFC is not all that you guys are trying to make it out to be - it is very top heavy, like most conferences

[dbackjon]

empirical evidence doesn't agree with your worldview, so obviously the evidence is wrong.

What empirical evidence is that?

[dbackjon]

Since no one has answered the question, here is the answer:

MVFC went 8-8 versus other full schollie FCS conferences

UNI went 2-0 (UNC, McNeese) (PLUS BCS WIN)
SDSU went 2-0 (SDSU, UND)
NDSU went 1-0 (Del State (PLUS BCS WIN)

WIU went 1-0 (Hampton)
SIU went 1-1 (Win over SEMO, loss to EIU)
USD went 1-2 (Win over UC-Davis, losses to Montana and NAU)
ISUb went 0-1 (Loss to Tenn Tech)
ISUr went 0-1 Loss to EIU)
MSU went 0-3 (Losses to NW State, Murray State and UCA)


Outside of SDSU, NDSU, and UNI, MVFC did poorly OOC. beating the dregs of other conferences, losing to either good, or mediocre teams.


If UNI had not had the injuries, they'd be a seed, easily. The rest of the conference is no different than other power conferences.

[SIUSalukiFan]

Since no one has answered the question, here is the answer:

MVFC went 8-8 versus other full schollie FCS conferences

UNI went 2-0 (UNC, McNeese) (PLUS BCS WIN)
SDSU went 2-0 (SDSU, UND)
NDSU went 1-0 (Del State (PLUS BCS WIN)

WIU went 1-0 (Hampton)
SIU went 1-1 (Win over SEMO, loss to EIU)
USD went 1-2 (Win over UC-Davis, losses to Montana and NAU)
ISUb went 0-1 (Loss to Tenn Tech)
ISUr went 0-1 Loss to EIU)
MSU went 0-3 (Losses to NW State, Murray State and UCA)


Outside of SDSU, NDSU, and UNI, MVFC did poorly OOC. beating the dregs of other conferences, losing to either good, or mediocre teams.


If UNI had not had the injuries, they'd be a seed, easily. The rest of the conference is no different than other power conferences.

How is going 1-0 or 1-1 doing poorly OOC?

[dbackjon]

How is going 1-0 or 1-1 doing poorly OOC?

You have to look at the competition.

SIU's only win was over a bad (so bad they fired the coach) SEMO
WIU beat a very bad Hampton team.


Basically, there is no evidence that outside of the great wins by SDSU, UNI, and NDSU, that any Valley team is that good, and that the Valley is full of great teams that just beat each other up.

MVFC is a good conference, but no different than the Southland, Sky, CAA, etc.

[penguinpower]

Since no one has answered the question, here is the answer:

MVFC went 8-8 versus other full schollie FCS conferences

UNI went 2-0 (UNC, McNeese) (PLUS BCS WIN)
SDSU went 2-0 (SDSU, UND)
NDSU went 1-0 (Del State (PLUS BCS WIN)

WIU went 1-0 (Hampton)
SIU went 1-1 (Win over SEMO, loss to EIU)
USD went 1-2 (Win over UC-Davis, losses to Montana and NAU)
ISUb went 0-1 (Loss to Tenn Tech)
ISUr went 0-1 Loss to EIU)
MSU went 0-3 (Losses to NW State, Murray State and UCA)


Outside of SDSU, NDSU, and UNI, MVFC did poorly OOC. beating the dregs of other conferences, losing to either good, or mediocre teams.


If UNI had not had the injuries, they'd be a seed, easily. The rest of the conference is no different than other power conferences.

You forgot YSU. They were 3-0 in FCS OOC's and 0-1 vs FBS.

The record should then be 11-9 correct?

[ValleyTalk]

You forgot YSU. They were 3-0 in FCS OOC's and 0-1 vs FBS.

The record should then be 11-9 correct?
Those don't count, even though their conferences now earn autobids into the playoffs...

[BisonTru]

The valley got shafted. By saying that I'm not saying the big sky doesn't deserve their 4 representatives. OVC > MVFC, MEAC = MVFC. IMO, take out SCSU and replace with your choice UNI or YSU and I'd be just fine with the selections.

[SIUSalukiFan]

You have to look at the competition.

SIU's only win was over a bad (so bad they fired the coach) SEMO

Then feel free to look at ALL of the competition. SIU lost to Eastern Illinois in double overtime. No other FCS team - including the multiple playoff representatives from the OVC - could stay within 18 points of the Panthers.

[centennial]

Patty Viverito NEEDS to be fired.

[Engineer86]

The valley got shafted. By saying that I'm not saying the big sky doesn't deserve their 4 representatives. OVC > MVFC, MEAC = MVFC. IMO, take out SCSU and replace with your choice UNI or YSU and I'd be just fine with the selections.

"Take out SCSU" you are just a hater, wait for it

[SIUSalukiFan]

You have to look at the competition.

SIU's only win was over a bad (so bad they fired the coach) SEMO
WIU beat a very bad Hampton team.


Basically, there is no evidence that outside of the great wins by SDSU, UNI, and NDSU, that any Valley team is that good, and that the Valley is full of great teams that just beat each other up.

MVFC is a good conference, but no different than the Southland, Sky, CAA, etc.

There seems to be a difference - the MVFC can't seem to get more than than two bids to the playoffs while others with marquee wins over such non-conference juggernauts such as North Alabama are ushered right in. Interesting.

[Herder]

Patty Viverito NEEDS to be fired.

Because she isn't threatening people, strong arming them, or paying people under the table? Which of those would you prefer? It isn't Patty's fault that there is a bias against her conference.

What she should be doing is ensuring that more specific criteria are used by the selection committee, so there is some criteria to hold them accountable to. Until there is criteria and accountability, what can she do?

One year the committee put emphasis on OOC wins, then its finishing strong, then its regional balance, then its etc, etc, etc. Really the committee can put their spin on any reason they want for their decisions.

[penguinpower]

Because she isn't threatening people, strong arming them, or paying people under the table? Which of those would you prefer? It isn't Patty's fault that there is a bias against her conference.

What she should be doing is ensuring that more specific criteria are used by the selection committee, so there is some criteria to hold them accountable to. Until there is criteria and accountability, what can she do?

One year the committee put emphasis on OOC wins, then its finishing strong, then its regional balance, then its etc, etc, etc. Really the committee can put their spin on any reason they want for their decisions.

Spot on! But she should probably be conferencing with the AD reps before the committee meets so that the cases for MVFC teams is strong.

[SIUSalukiFan]

Because she isn't threatening people, strong arming them, or paying people under the table? Which of those would you prefer? It isn't Patty's fault that there is a bias against her conference.

What she should be doing is ensuring that more specific criteria are used by the selection committee, so there is some criteria to hold them accountable to. Until there is criteria and accountability, what can she do?

One year the committee put emphasis on OOC wins, then its finishing strong, then its regional balance, then its etc, etc, etc. Really the committee can put their spin on any reason they want for their decisions.

That's all I'm asking for ... a specific criteria that gives every team a clear understanding to what it has to accomplish to be considered for the playoffs.

[dbackjon]

You forgot YSU. They were 3-0 in FCS OOC's and 0-1 vs FBS.

The record should then be 11-9 correct?


NO

They were 0-0 against full schollie conferences. My post was about like conferences.

YSU's cupcake schedule against two non-schollie and one limited schollie was another nail in their coffin, IMHO.

[Houndawg]

NO

They were 0-0 against full schollie conferences. My post was about like conferences.

YSU's cupcake schedule against two non-schollie and one limited schollie was another nail in their coffin, IMHO.


mmmmmmm ....... strong in this one is the butthurt...

[penguinpower]

I am thinking the real issue why another MVFC team was not taken is because of Jeff Bourne. He is from JMU and I don't think he has much respect for the valley.

[dbackjon]

There seems to be a difference - the MVFC can't seem to get more than than two bids to the playoffs while others with marquee wins over such non-conference juggernauts such as North Alabama are ushered right in. Interesting.


And then you have to win in your conference. UNI went 3-5.

Only four at-larges of the 10 had more than 2 conference losses - SDSU, SUU, JSU and SHSU all had three. Once you get to three conference losses, you are treading on thin ice when it comes to the playoffs.


To me, the team with the biggest complaint was actually Chattanooga.

[dbackjon]

mmmmmmm ....... strong in this one is the butthurt...

How so?

I have shown with FACTS and LOGIC that the MVFC isn't this big top-to-bottom juggernaut that dominates everyone else.

Three good teams. Three decent teams. Three cupcakes. Same ratios as other conferences.



The Butthurt is only strong in the MVFC.

[penguinpower]

And then you have to win in your conference. UNI went 3-5.

Only four at-larges of the 10 had more than 2 conference losses - SDSU, SUU, JSU and SHSU all had three. Once you get to three conference losses, you are treading on thin ice when it comes to the playoffs.


To me, the team with the biggest complaint was actually Chattanooga.

That is THIS year. Normally you need 7 division 1 wins. That is the basis, not winning league games. If UNI hammers McNeese, beats a Big 12 team and has 7 wins they deserve to be in. Losing conference games only states that the conference has parity. The OOC record speaks for itself.

Winning league games was invented in 2013 to keep UNI out.

[dbackjon]

That is THIS year. Normally you need 7 division 1 wins. That is the basis, not winning league games. If UNI hammers McNeese, beats a Big 12 team and has 7 wins they deserve to be in. Losing conference games only states that the conference has parity. The OOC record speaks for itself.

Winning league games was invented in 2013 to keep UNI out.


There are no set rules, but guidelines. UNI had FIVE losses total. A five loss team isn't getting a bid. FACT.

If UNI had only pulled out one of the losses, they'd be in.

[penguinpower]

There are no set rules, but guidelines. UNI had FIVE losses total. A five loss team isn't getting a bid. FACT.

If UNI had only pulled out one of the losses, they'd be in.

In the past that has not kept teams out of the playoffs. 7 wins nothing about losses has ever been a part of the selection. That would mean if you scheduled more games but had more wins you would be penalized for the extra game you lost. The committe has always based the selection on division 1 wins first and foremost. As I said new rule for this year. UNI was screwed.

[SIUSalukiFan]

There are no set rules, but guidelines. UNI had FIVE losses total. A five loss team isn't getting a bid. FACT.

If UNI had only pulled out one of the losses, they'd be in.

How about a five-loss team in a season with 12 games? What would be interesting to know is how many 7-5 teams out there, if any, lost the additional game they scheduled this year. I might have to look that one up.

I certainly agree with your thoughts if we are talking about a traditional 11-game season.

[dbackjon]

How about a five-loss team in a season with 12 games? What would be interesting to know is how many 7-5 teams out there, if any, lost the additional game they scheduled this year. I might have to look that one up.

I certainly agree with your thoughts if we are talking about a traditional 11-game season.

So to get to an 11-game schedule, UNI would play one less OOC games (which what the extra game allowed), then UNI would be 6-5, and even less argument.

[dbackjon]

In the past that has not kept teams out of the playoffs. 7 wins nothing about losses has ever been a part of the selection. That would mean if you scheduled more games but had more wins you would be penalized for the extra game you lost. The committe has always based the selection on division 1 wins first and foremost. As I said new rule for this year. UNI was screwed.

And you are still mistaking guidelines for rules. Last year, NAU had SEVEN DI wins, plus a DII win, to finish at 8-3. We stayed home.

We got woofed, yes, but also lost our last two games, both at home. We left our fate in the hands of the committee. Win one of those last two, and we are in, no doubt.

[SIUSalukiFan]

So to get to an 11-game schedule, UNI would play one less OOC games (which what the extra game allowed), then UNI would be 6-5, and even less argument.

Absolutely. Southern Illinois and Delaware and William & Mary would have been in the same boat, too. Didn't know if anybody in this year's field actually was hurt by the 12th game.

[dbackjon]

Absolutely. Southern Illinois and Delaware and William & Mary would have been in the same boat, too. Didn't know if anybody in this year's field actually was hurt by the 12th game.

Maybe Montana State - if they hadn't played SFA, they'd been 7-4

[centennial]

Because she isn't threatening people, strong arming them, or paying people under the table? Which of those would you prefer? It isn't Patty's fault that there is a bias against her conference.

What she should be doing is ensuring that more specific criteria are used by the selection committee, so there is some criteria to hold them accountable to. Until there is criteria and accountability, what can she do?

One year the committee put emphasis on OOC wins, then its finishing strong, then its regional balance, then its etc, etc, etc. Really the committee can put their spin on any reason they want for their decisions.
She represents the league. It is in her interest to promote her league, she is not doing her job. No one is asking her to do anything illegal. However, it is evident she is failing miserably in making a case for the teams. I would take 3 MVFC teams over half the playoff field (UNI, YSU, SIU), yes 2 of these teams did not get enough wins, neither did SHSU. We are the strongest FCS league in the country in multiple polls. You think the SC state AD who was able to strong arm the committee to let her team in is getting condemnation?

[gotts]

Any of the UNI guys happen to hear Farley's remarks regarding YSU's schedule on the postgame show Saturday evening? On the back to Bismarck from Fargo, I was able to pick up the UNI postgame show on the AM dial.

Am I right in remembering that he basically threw YSU under the bus for having similar open dates, but choosing not to schedule tougher competition?

[Daved]

3-0 versus FCS, but 0-0 against Full Schollie. YSU beat two non-schollie, and one partial schollie teams - ie three cupcakes.Agreed YSU did win over 3 cupcakes--they never get the chance to play the mighty Big Sky teams since they don't make the playoffs like in olden days--back in the last century I believe they were 6-0 vs Big Sky powers.

[JayJ79]

In my research, when on the bubble, YSU has never made it to the playoffs dating back the late 1980s. The only year they may have been on the bubble was 1991 when they started the year off 4-3, but they won out, including a win on the road at #1 Georgia Southern which locked them into the playoffs.

UNI has only made the playoffs when they had at least a share of the MVFC/Gateway championship. Yes, there have been a couple times when they didn't get the AQ, but they still had at least a share of the championship

- - - Updated - - -


Agree here.

The TV deal for starters.

She needs to go sell used cars or something cus she is not a very good commish.

Have the PFL folks had any issues with her commissioning? Perhaps she could keep that job, and someone else could take over for the MVFC.

(I don't pay any attention to the administrative side of things, and to be honest, I don't even know what a conference commissioner even does exactly, so i don't personally have an opinion on how she's done her job)

[JayJ79]

And then you have to win in your conference. UNI went 3-5.

Only four at-larges of the 10 had more than 2 conference losses - SDSU, SUU, JSU and SHSU all had three. Once you get to three conference losses, you are treading on thin ice when it comes to the playoffs.
Why should conference record have higher influence than non-conference play? At-large bids should be about overall resume.
Otherwise you are just penalizing teams the play in tougher leagues.


There are no set rules, but guidelines. UNI had FIVE losses total. A five loss team isn't getting a bid. FACT.
I would be fine with that as a guideline..... IF THEY LISTED IT ON THE GORRAM GUIDELINE LIST. Just like the "seven D1 win" guideline, which has now been reduced to six.


(UNI, YSU, SIU), yes 2 of these teams did not get enough wins
by "enough wins", I assume you're referring to D1 wins. The official "guidelines" only require six (though it used to be seven). YSU had 8, UNI had 7, SIU had 6.

[penguinpower]

Why should conference record have higher influence than non-conference play? At-large bids should be about overall resume.
Otherwise you are just penalizing teams the play in tougher leagues.


I would be fine with that as a guideline..... IF THEY LISTED IT ON THE GORRAM GUIDELINE LIST. Just like the "seven D1 win" guideline, which has now been reduced to six.


by "enough wins", I assume you're referring to D1 wins. The official "guidelines" only require six (though it used to be seven). YSU had 8, UNI had 7, SIU had 6.

Excellent post.

[penguinpower]

Damani Leech needs to bring more transparency to the selection process.

[Wallace]

And you are still mistaking guidelines for rules. Last year, NAU had SEVEN DI wins, plus a DII win, to finish at 8-3. We stayed home.

We got woofed...

NAU did not get WOOFED last year.

WOOFED has a very precise definition:
The highest ranked team that had a GPI that indicates they should be included in the playoff selection field, but they were not selected. It can be expanded to mean any team the GPI indicates should be included but are not selected.

Last year:

The GPI Indicated:
2. Montana State
3. Sam Houston State
6. Cal Poly
7T. South Dakota State
9. Old Dominion
10. Illinois State
11. Appalachian State
12. Wofford
13. Eastern Kentucky
14T. Towson

The committee chose #23 Stony Brook and #26 New Hampshire, instead of #13 Eastern Kentucky and #14T Towson.

Sad to say but Eastern Kentucky and Towson share the "Woofed" team of the year.
http://www.collegesportingnews.com/content.php?869-2012-Regular-Season-Ends-with-North-Dakota-State-at-No-1-in-the-Gridiron-Power-Index-%28GPI%29

This year:

GPI AT-LARGE
5. Towson (6.00)
6. Montana (7.00)
7T. S Dakota St (8.14)
7T. McNeese St (8.14)
10. Northern Arizona (13.29)
12T. Northern Iowa (15.86)
12T. Youngstown St (15.86)
14. S Illinois (17.00)
16. Fordham (18.29)
18. Tennessee St (19.29)
19. New Hampshire (19.57)
20. Villanova (19.86)
21. Sam Houston St (20.29)

So bitter rivals #12T Northern Iowa and #12T Youngstown State share the "WOOFED" recognition of 2013 as the highest ranked team(s) in the GPI that were passed over by the committee for playoff selection. In fact the GPI indicated an additional two teams in #14 Southern Illinois and #20 Villanova that were also not chosen.Hence the MVFC being woofed with three of their members (an FCS record).

[Wallace]

Damani Leech needs to bring more transparency to the selection process.

They really do not want to answer to anyone except those who selected them to the committee. It is their party, the members of the NCAA chose them to select the field.

[Houndawg]

There are no set rules, but guidelines. UNI had FIVE losses total. A five loss team isn't getting a bid. FACT.

If UNI had only pulled out one of the losses, they'd be in.


Same for SIU, MSU, and YSU. Any of whom would wallop the bejeezus out of NAU.xcoffeex

[Daved]

How so?

I have shown with FACTS and LOGIC that the MVFC isn't this big top-to-bottom juggernaut that dominates everyone else.

Three good teams. Three decent teams. Three cupcakes. Same ratios as other conferences.



The Butthurt is only strong in the MVFC.Guess its not only strong in the MVFC---SDSU gave some team out west a major enema.xlolx

[Daved]

I don't think UNI or YSU deserved to be in. Who was YSU's quality win? UNI has looked awful since NDSU, win or lose.I agree--however any win against a MVFC team this year(sans ISU-b) is a quality win in my book.

[skinny_uncle]

It was nice to see a team that we beat get a playoff win. That hasn't happened since last year.

[thebootfitter]

It was nice to see a team that we beat get a playoff win. That hasn't happened since last year.
Nice!

BTW - Has dbackjon posted at all since NAU lost? I'm curious to hear his thoughts on the game.

[Houndawg]

Nice!

BTW - Has dbackjon posted at all since NAU lost? I'm curious to hear his thoughts on the game.


It was an aberration, there isn't really any difference between the Big Sky and the MVC.