WHINING about playoff selection

[DaBizon]

My Oh My

People whining about being left out or poor seed need to stop and remember one thing.....If you had won the games you had scheduled there would be nothing to whine about.
WIN YOUR GAMES... ALL OF THEM. Don't leave it up to some committee to decide your fate.
Those teams that schedule cupcakes thinking that's the way to pad a record hoping to get to the playoffs..come on..that is selling your team short. If your team is only good enough to beat cupcakes, do they really deserve to play in December ? If your team is good enough to beat top tier teams, prove it..schedule those games..win those games and I bet you won't be whining come playoff time.


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[Bisonator]

My Oh My

People whining about being left out or poor seed need to stop and remember one thing.....If you had won the games you had scheduled there would be nothing to whine about.
WIN YOUR GAMES... ALL OF THEM. Don't leave it up to some committee to decide your fate.
Those teams that schedule cupcakes thinking that's the way to pad a record hoping to get to the playoffs..come on..that is selling your team short. If your team is only good enough to beat cupcakes, do they really deserve to play in December ? If your team is good enough to beat top tier teams, prove it..schedule those games..win those games and I bet you won't be whining come playoff time.


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The end. xthumbsupx

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Best post I've seen in a couple days. xlolx

I must not remember it form year to year because somehow it always catches me off guard how much people try to defend one middling record against another. Don't have a middling record and everything else goes away.

[Sam_Kats]

Clenz in 3....2......1.........

[MSUBobcat]

My Oh My

People whining about being left out or poor seed need to stop and remember one thing.....If you had won the games you had scheduled there would be nothing to whine about.
WIN YOUR GAMES... ALL OF THEM. Don't leave it up to some committee to decide your fate.
Those teams that schedule cupcakes thinking that's the way to pad a record hoping to get to the playoffs..come on..that is selling your team short. If your team is only good enough to beat cupcakes, do they really deserve to play in December ? If your team is good enough to beat top tier teams, prove it..schedule those games..win those games and I bet you won't be whining come playoff time.


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Damn good post for a guy with 4 posts in almost a year of membership!

[MSUBobcat]

Clenz in 3....2......1.........

xlolxxnodxxlolx

[Professor Chaos]

There's also a difference between whining and discussion. Too many people don't differentiate between the two because there are whiners that love to **** all over valid discussions with comments like "F*** the selection committee!" and things like that. I think it's a discussion worth having regarding why Montana was seeded over NAU or why SCSU was included but teams like YSU and UNI were not. Overall, it brings out interesting trends and biases that the selection committee has that they deserve to be called out for but in any case the team that's the best on the field over the next month and change will be the one that wins it all and every team that has a chance to accomplish that is included in this playoff field.

[PanthersBlue]

My Oh My

People whining about being left out or poor seed need to stop and remember one thing.....If you had won the games you had scheduled there would be nothing to whine about.
WIN YOUR GAMES... ALL OF THEM. Don't leave it up to some committee to decide your fate.
Those teams that schedule cupcakes thinking that's the way to pad a record hoping to get to the playoffs..come on..that is selling your team short. If your team is only good enough to beat cupcakes, do they really deserve to play in December ? If your team is good enough to beat top tier teams, prove it..schedule those games..win those games and I bet you won't be whining come playoff time.


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Amen.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

There's also a difference between whining and discussion. Too many people don't differentiate between the two because there are whiners that love to **** all over valid discussions with comments like "F*** the selection committee!" and things like that. I think it's a discussion worth having regarding why Montana was seeded over NAU or why SCSU was included but teams like YSU and UNI were not. Overall, it brings out interesting trends and biases that the selection committee has that they deserve to be called out for but in any case the team that's the best on the field over the next month and change will be the one that wins it all and every team that has a chance to accomplish that is included in this playoff field.

It's a great point and the overly emotional stuff is the reason I'm just staying out of most of it. I can't get into all the conspiracy theories that float around to justify why things happened.

[SIUSalukiFan]

If there was a 32-team field some fan of a 5-6 team from the MVFC or CAA would be arguing its four Division 1 wins carried more weight over the Division 1 wins of MEAC and Southland teams that got into the field.

[BisonTru]

I'm pretty new to this forum, but did anyone not expect any complaining about the selections. No matter how the committee picked the bracket there is going to be someone that can come up with an argument that their team should be included. IMO, the valley (-NDSU) got the shaft. All three bubble teams snubbed and they let in SCSU and SHSU. Then they send SDSU (the only other valley rep.) on a collision course with the two best Big Sky teams on the road. My team (the bison if you couldn't figure that out) took care of everything they could on the field, but I certainly can see why YSU, UNI, and SIU certainly could feel they are more deserving than SCSU.

[centennial]

Some SC State fan suggested that there is some affirmative action going on in the playoff committee. I am not one for conspiracy theories but this has happened before to the CAA. I still think you should have 6 d1 wins in 11 game season and 7 d1 wins in 12 game season. Other than that as a football fan its disappointing that multiple good teams were left at home in lieu of teams that will get blown out this week. It seems like there is a lot of politics going on in the background.

Firstly the NCAA ratings need to be corrected, they are really horrible. They encourage cheap wins. Secondly, the playoff committee system needs reforms. Thirdly, NCAA needs to stop regionalism and seed the teams appropriately. Also when rankings are more appropriate and fair there will be much less whining.

[Mountaineer]

I'm pretty new to this forum, but did anyone not expect any complaining about the selections.

Nope. Complaining about the playoff selections is as time honored as the playoffs themselves. xlolx

If your team is having to rely on other teams to make make into the bracket, they're doing it wrong.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I'm pretty new to this forum, but did anyone not expect any complaining about the selections. No matter how the committee picked the bracket there is going to be someone that can come up with an argument that their team should be included. IMO, the valley (-NDSU) got the shaft. All three bubble teams snubbed and they let in SCSU and SHSU. Then they send SDSU (the only other valley rep.) on a collision course with the two best Big Sky teams on the road. My team (the bison if you couldn't figure that out) took care of everything they could on the field, but I certainly can see why YSU, UNI, and SIU certainly could feel they are more deserving than SCSU.

None of the teams that didn't make it are very deserving and that case can also be made for a couple that did make it. The fact that none of them are deserving that they should all get in the playoffs. If you are in that 20-30 range in the selection committee's eyes then you leave it up to lottery and you will probably lose while a guy that has the same sort or credentials may win.

The fact that any of those teams even have a shot at still getting the lottery pick doesn't mean you have any gripe for not winning the thing. The arguments about this non worthy team vs. that other one is just dumb.

I'm just surprised because with the lengthening of the field there are still those who think they or their conference deserves more because of some certain statistic or whatever other immaterial point they can find.

[DaBizon]

^^^^^ :-)

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[walliver]

We should go back to 16 teams with 8 auto-bids, then people will have legitimate gripes to complain about.

[SIUSalukiFan]

I'm just surprised because with the lengthening of the field there are still those who think they or there conference deserves more because of some certain statistic or whatever other immaterial point they can find.

There are several teams that did not make the playoffs who proved they could play and beat anybody in the country.

There are several teams that did make the playoffs who only proved they could beat non-conference dregs and weaklings in their conference.

If South Carolina State, Jacksonville State or Southern Utah makes a deep run in the playoffs then I'll offer my apologies and tip my hat to the NCAA.

Forgive those of us who aren't enamored with an NCAA-rating system that rewards a team such as Jacksonville State - and its overtime wins over non-affiliated North Alabama and winless Georgia State - with a postseason bid.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

There are several teams that did not make the playoffs who proved they could play and beat anybody in the country.

There are several teams that did make the playoffs who only proved they could beat non-conference dregs and weaklings in their conference.

If South Carolina State, Jacksonville State or Southern Utah makes a deep run in the playoffs then I'll offer my apologies and tip my hat to the NCAA.

Forgive those of us who aren't enamored with an NCAA-rating system that rewards a team such as Jacksonville State - and its overtime wins over non-affiliated North Alabama and winless Georgia State - with a postseason bid.

Your hat will not move.

[BisonTru]

None of the teams that didn't make it are very deserving and that case can also be made for a couple that did make it. The fact that none of them are deserving that they should all get int he playoffs. If you are in that 20-30 range in the selection committee's eyes then you leave it up to lottery and you will probably lose while a guy that has the same sort or credentials may win.

The fact that any of those teams even have a shot at still getting the lottery pick doesn't mean you have any gripe for not winning the thing. The arguments about this non worth team vs. that other one is just dumb.

I'm just surprised because with the lengthening of the field there are still those who think they or there conference deserves more because of some certain statistic or whatever other immaterial point they can find.

Sorry I didn't realize we picked the last 4 in by drawing names out of a hat. I could probably agree that SCSU is the 30th best team and must of got a lucky draw. Hell, why do we stop there, let's just draw from all the remaining teams. That would create some excitement. Of course the CAA and Big Sky would get two names a piece in the hat.

[SIUSalukiFan]

Your hat will not move.

I know it won't. xlolx

I'm pretty excited about the chances of Butler, Samford and Tennessee State, too.

[SIUSalukiFan]

Of course the CAA and Big Sky would get two names a piece in the hat.

xlolx

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I know it won't. xlolx

I'm pretty excited about the chances of Butler, Samford and Tennessee State, too.

This is kind of it. Expansion does little more than just add games.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

There are several teams that did not make the playoffs who proved they could play and beat anybody in the country.

There are several teams that did make the playoffs who only proved they could beat non-conference dregs and weaklings in their conference.

If South Carolina State, Jacksonville State or Southern Utah makes a deep run in the playoffs then I'll offer my apologies and tip my hat to the NCAA.

Forgive those of us who aren't enamored with an NCAA-rating system that rewards a team such as Jacksonville State - and its overtime wins over non-affiliated North Alabama and winless Georgia State - with a postseason bid.

So what? Those teams also proved they could lose to about anybody as well for the most part.

"Oh I'm upset because I thought I had this hand won and was counting on having the river card because of some game I won earlier that's better than that teams!"

As I said whining about undeserving teams is pointless but provides some laughs so keep us chuckling if you wish.

Here are some things that have and always will matter if you are bubble team:

Finishing on a strong note in the last four games of the season.

Not outside of the say the top 3 in your own conference...maybe four sometimes now that expansion has come.

NOT losing to teams you should not have lost to...bad losses.

Having a couple of teams you proably should not have beaten in the win column for your team...good wins.

That's of course not all of it, I'm sure it gets slightly more granulated but if you can't claim ALL of those things then good luck in the lottery is all I got for ya.xthumbsupx


Sometimes mediocrity gets rewarded but if didn't the you got no gripe.

[DSUrocks07]

Your hat will not move.

I'm surprised that everyone believes that YSU, SIU and UNI would have made a deep run.

Let's just cut the BS and admit it. The power conferences in FCS want what the power conferences in FBS have, guaranteed results. FBS want their guaranteed big time bowl, FCS want their guaranteed national championships. The autobids are a thorn in their sides and most would love to just have a strictly Big Sky/CAA/MVFC multiple bid playoff every year.

Do I think that SC State, Jax State, and/SHSU "deserved" their bids? Absolutely not. But do I think that YSU, SIU and UNI (because this thread is a MVFC bitchfest) deserved them instead? No I don't.

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[SoupCity85]

I would have to agree with the group that has the view about winning your games. All YSU needed was a 9th win and they would have been in, no questions asked. And then to add some salt to the wound....you get ABSOLUTELY blown out of your last 2??? We all thought if they could keep the NSDU/SDSU games close, well maybe YSU had a better shot. They didn't get it done, thus they don't deserve to be in. Not a single person on here should comment about YSU not getting in, none of the fans are. As for some teams that got in and maybe didn't deserve it? Well, the last 4 out should have won that 1 more game they needed.

[MSUBobcat]

So what? Those teams also proved they could lose to about anybody as well for the most part.

"Oh I'm upset because I thought I had this hand won and was counting on having the river card because of some game I won earlier that's better than that teams!"

As I said whining about undeserving teams is pointless but provides some laughs so keep us chuckling if you wish.

Here are some things that have and always will matter if you are bubble team:

Finishing on a strong note in the last four games of the season.

Not outside of the say the top 3 in your own conference...maybe four sometimes now that expansion has come.

NOT losing to teams you should not have lost to...bad losses.

Having a couple of teams you proably should not have beaten in the win column for your team...good wins.

That's of course not all of it, I'm sure it gets slightly more granulated but if you can't claim ALL of those things then good luck in the lottery is all I got for ya.xthumbsupx


Sometimes mediocrity gets rewarded but if didn't the you got no gripe.

xthumbsupx That seems like a pretty good recipe for punching your ticket to the playoffs. xnodx

[UNHFootballAlum]

Some SC State fan suggested that there is some affirmative action going on in the playoff committee. I am not one for conspiracy theories but this has happened before to the CAA. I still think you should have 6 d1 wins in 11 game season and 7 d1 wins in 12 game season. Other than that as a football fan its disappointing that multiple good teams were left at home in lieu of teams that will get blown out this week. It seems like there is a lot of politics going on in the background.

Firstly the NCAA ratings need to be corrected, they are really horrible. They encourage cheap wins. Secondly, the playoff committee system needs reforms. Thirdly, NCAA needs to stop regionalism and seed the teams appropriately. Also when rankings are more appropriate and fair there will be much less whining.

The most fair way to do this is to not have auto bids at all. Just pick the 24 best teams in the country regardless of conference and then may the best team win. There would be a selection process that all conferences would agree to. This would force teams looking to get in the playoffs to upgrade their schedules or be left out.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

The most fair way to do this is to not have auto bids at all. Just pick the 24 best teams in the country regardless of conference and then may the best team win. There would be a selection process that all conferences would agree to. This would force teams looking to get in the playoffs to upgrade their schedules or be left out.

That is not what NCAA championships are about and nor should it be. Fair is sort of subjective thing.

Before doing something like that which is very BCS style bull**** I'd rather see them go to only autobids and everyone else can shut up.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I'm surprised that everyone believes that YSU, SIU and UNI would have made a deep run.

Let's just cut the BS and admit it. The power conferences in FCS want what the power conferences in FBS have, guaranteed results. FBS want their guaranteed big time bowl, FCS want their guaranteed national championships. The autobids are a thorn in their sides and most would love to just have a strictly Big Sky/CAA/MVFC multiple bid playoff every year.

Do I think that SC State, Jax State, and/SHSU "deserved" their bids? Absolutely not. But do I think that YSU, SIU and UNI (because this thread is a MVFC bitchfest) deserved them instead? No I don't.

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I didn't say that. I'm saying that, outside of the seeds, chances are you will be 1 or 2 and done. The best chance is NAU who should have been a seed instead of Montana.

[Grizalltheway]

I didn't say that. I'm saying that, outside of the seeds, chances are you will be 1 or 2 and done. The best chance is NAU who should have been a seed instead of Montana.

Bookmarked.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Bookmarked.

Don't worry. I'll probably say that several times in the next 12 days

[dbackjon]

None of the teams that didn't make it are very deserving and that case can also be made for a couple that did make it. The fact that none of them are deserving that they should all get in the playoffs. If you are in that 20-30 range in the selection committee's eyes then you leave it up to lottery and you will probably lose while a guy that has the same sort or credentials may win.

The fact that any of those teams even have a shot at still getting the lottery pick doesn't mean you have any gripe for not winning the thing. The arguments about this non worthy team vs. that other one is just dumb.

I'm just surprised because with the lengthening of the field there are still those who think they or their conference deserves more because of some certain statistic or whatever other immaterial point they can find.


Very true.

UNI had a five game losing streak, with losses to a very bad ISU-r team, and a mediocre (at least that is what MVFC people say) USD.
YSU ended season on three game losing streak.



I still would have put UNI in over SHSU

Last year, NAU ended on two game losing streak, with an FBS win, and were left out.

[Grizalltheway]

Don't worry. I'll probably say that several times in the next 12 days

xlolxxthumbsupx

[dbackjon]

I know it won't. xlolx

I'm pretty excited about the chances of Butler, Samford and Tennessee State, too.

What has YSU shown that they would make a run of any kind?

[dbackjon]

This is kind of it. Expansion does little more than just add games.

Now you sound like a Big Ten, etc complaining about the Summit League getting a bid to the NCAA basketball tourney.

[SIUSalukiFan]

Here are some things that have and always will matter if you are bubble team:

Finishing on a strong note in the last four games of the season.

Not outside of the say the top 3 in your own conference...maybe four sometimes now that expansion has come.

NOT losing to teams you should not have lost to...bad losses.

Having a couple of teams you proably should not have beaten in the win column for your team...good wins.

That's of course not all of it, I'm sure it gets slightly more granulated but if you can't claim ALL of those things then good luck in the lottery is all I got for ya.xthumbsupx

While your suggestions have merit it's a shame the NCAA use the same criteria.

Teams made the field who didn't finish the season strong.

Teams made the field with bad losses (44-0 to Eastern Kentucky?).

There's no perfect formula. I get that. But, this selection committee didn't do much research. It seemed to take the easy road to fill out the brackets.

[dudeitsaid]

That is not what NCAA championships are about and nor should it be. Fair is sort of subjective thing.

Before doing something like that which is very BCS style bull**** I'd rather see them go to only autobids and everyone else can shut up.

Hit the nail on the head here. There is a lot of talk and polls and computer rankings, etc that prognosticate the best teams throughout the season. Which ones would be used to determine without any controversy those best 24 teams in the field. Autobids are a good system to see a well represented group of FCS teams that will settle the issue on the field. If there were no autobids, we would essentially have 24 "at larges." And we would likely see the frustration and complaining multiply accordingly.

How many times has an underdog won a playoff game? Our perceptions of who the better team is not always, but often proven wrong on the field. That's part of what makes this interesting.

[Sammy94]

Do I think that SC State, Jax State, and/SHSU "deserved" their bids?

Come on....you can't spell bracket without Bearkat so they had to be in.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

While your suggestions have merit it's a shame the NCAA use the same criteria.

Teams made the field who didn't finish the season strong.

Teams made the field with bad losses (44-0 to Eastern Kentucky?).

There's no perfect formula. I get that. But, this selection committee didn't do much research. It seemed to take the easy road to fill out the brackets.

You must have missed the caveat that these are things that come into play WHEN you don't win the autobid and are not considered one of the top 20 teams. At that point you are getting down to a whole bunch of if's and but's talk and you just have ot hope you find a golden ticket in chocolate bar.

There is zero legitimate reason for a few that got in just as there zero legitimate reasons that some left out should have overtaken those last couple of spots. If an argument can go either way and you are looking at a coin flip situation then you have put yourself in a bad situation and have to deal with disappointment when charity isn't thrown your way.

[Hammerhead]

Southern Utah is the #52 team in the FCS according to the Sagarin ratings.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Southern Utah is the #52 team in the FCS according to the Sagarin ratings.

And?

[dbackjon]

Southern Utah is the #52 team in the FCS according to the Sagarin ratings.

Sagarin also has NDSU as #22 in all of college football...

[jacksfan29]

Sagarin also has NDSU as #22 in all of college football...

And?

[dbackjon]

And?

Exactly my point. Look at the Sagarin Ratings. They are worthless. To try to build an argument around them is the height of stupidity.

[BisonTru]

The sagarin has the bison and the valley ranked #1. The srs and the committee agree that the OVC, big sky, and caa are heads and shoulders above the valley. The srs also has the bison at #2. Luckily we have a playoff system to see which one of these models works better.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

The sagarin has the bison and the valley ranked #1. The srs and the committee agree that the OVC, big sky, and caa are heads and shoulders above the valley. The srs also has the bison at #2. Luckily we have a playoff system to see which one of these models works better.

See here's the thing. The Bison are clearly heads and shoulders above the rest of the MVFC. We aren't listening to and fielding arguments on The Biosn because that case is made and clearly set.

Now the rest trying to grab some charity ranking and status is the problem. Without NDSU in that conference it's not even a question in my mind that it is not the best conference. Probably 3rd or 4th. The rest of the teams outside of the next clear top team (SDSU) are just middle of the pack in any of the top 4 conferences.

SDSU is a very tough team and would challenge the top of any of the conferences for a title and that is why they are in. Right now NDSU would waltz through any FCS conference.

[BisonTru]

See here's the thing. The Bison are clearly heads and shoulders above the rest of the MVFC. We aren't listening to and fielding arguments on The Biosn because that case is made and clearly set.

Now the rest trying to grab some charity ranking and status is the problem. Without NDSU in that conference it's not even a question in my mind that it is not the best conference. Probably 3rd or 4th. The rest of the teams outside of the next clear top team (SDSU) are just middle of the pack in any of the top 4 conferences.

SDSU is a very tough team and would challenge the top of any of the conferences for a title and that is why they are in. Right now NDSU would waltz through any FCS conference.

If you take NDSU out of the conference you add one more win and take away one loss to the next four teams and the valley likely is a 4 playoff team conference. Plus how much healthier would all of those teams been if they hadn't squared off with NDSU and instead a much less physical team. At the end of the day you have to include NDSU in conference strength.

[Trumpster]

If you take NDSU out of the conference you add one more win and take away one loss to the next four teams and the valley likely is a 4 playoff team conference. Plus how much healthier would all of those teams been if they hadn't squared off with NDSU and instead a much less physical team. At the end of the day you have to include NDSU in conference strength.

^ This is what I think people forget when saying that the MVFC isn't that great. If NDSU didn't go undefeated the rest of the MVFC would have better records (except WIU, NDSU didn't play them).

[TennBison]

None of the teams that didn't make it are very deserving and that case can also be made for a couple that did make it. The fact that none of them are deserving that they should all get in the playoffs. If you are in that 20-30 range in the selection committee's eyes then you leave it up to lottery and you will probably lose while a guy that has the same sort or credentials may win.

The fact that any of those teams even have a shot at still getting the lottery pick doesn't mean you have any gripe for not winning the thing. The arguments about this non worthy team vs. that other one is just dumb.

I'm just surprised because with the lengthening of the field there are still those who think they or their conference deserves more because of some certain statistic or whatever other immaterial point they can find.
Good point, it is kind of like saying if you are in that 20-30 range (of teams that could make the playoffs) that your team is in what most would refer to as average (as far as playoff teams are concerned). The fact that anyone in that 20-30 range made it is a gift,4 of them made it and 6 did not. If your team did not make it don't cry to or about the selection committee, instead go bitch out your head coach for not getting your team to more wins.

[TennBison]

We should go back to 16 teams with 8 auto-bids, then people will have legitimate gripes to complain about.
Should go back to 16 with no auto bids, who wants any team even from one of the power conferences making the playoffs with a record like Lafayette. It should be the 16 best and that is it.

[TennBison]

The most fair way to do this is to not have auto bids at all. Just pick the 24 best teams in the country regardless of conference and then may the best team win. There would be a selection process that all conferences would agree to. This would force teams looking to get in the playoffs to upgrade their schedules or be left out.
And lets get teams that schedule FBS powerhouses to stop playing them for the money knowing they will lose and then crying because they feel that loss should not count against them. No matter who you play, a loss is a loss.

[TennBison]

That is not what NCAA championships are about and nor should it be. Fair is sort of subjective thing.

Before doing something like that which is very BCS style bull**** I'd rather see them go to only autobids and everyone else can shut up.
So you don't mind that your team sits at home while a 5-6 Lafayette makes it? Why don't you have your AD call up the NCAA and tell them your team wants to give up its spot in the playoffs and let one of those bubble teams in then. Lets see how you feel about an all auto bid only playoff then.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

If you take NDSU out of the conference you add one more win and take away one loss to the next four teams and the valley likely is a 4 playoff team conference. Plus how much healthier would all of those teams been if they hadn't squared off with NDSU and instead a much less physical team. At the end of the day you have to include NDSU in conference strength.

Not taking them out. I am saying that the other teams can't act like they are better than they are because NDSU is in the mix. They are not.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

So you don't mind that your team sits at home while a 5-6 Lafayette makes it? Why don't you have your AD call up the NCAA and tell them your team wants to give up its spot in the playoffs and let one of those bubble teams in then. Lets see how you feel about an all auto bid only playoff then.

You clearly aren't focusing here. I said that isn't how NCAA championships work...look at March Madness for instance. I did not advocate anyone conference giving up it's spot as the process stands now. I advocated not being an emotional thinker and trying to not move things to a BCS style setup so those of us in the more powerful conferences can take something away from what an NCAA championship has going for it. If I had the choice between one or the other I'd rather see it be only the conference champions because they have earned their way into the championship.

Stop with the silly manipulation of what I said.

We have auto's and we have at larges and that is the way it should be. You do not make a stronger division by purposely weakening and taking away something for the little guy to shoot for.

[JayJ79]

was Bill Fette on the selection committee?

[Hammerhead]

Does anyone know how the SRS is calculated? If not, how do we know they aren't cooking the books to make sure they have some profitable matchups?

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Does anyone know how the SRS is calculated? If not, how do we know they aren't cooking the books to make sure they have some profitable matchups?

Here is one of their researchers consulting the library.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/head-up-butt.png

[ElCid]

I know it won't. xlolx

I'm pretty excited about the chances of Butler, Samford and Tennessee State, too.

If you don't think Samford or Tenn St are good then you have not been paying attention.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

If you don't think Samford or Tenn St are good then you have not been paying attention.

I'll give Samford some respect but Tenn State?

Name me a significant win on their schedule.

[ElCid]

That is not what NCAA championships are about and nor should it be. Fair is sort of subjective thing.

Before doing something like that which is very BCS style bull**** I'd rather see them go to only autobids and everyone else can shut up.

Seriously. I am so tired of hearing about which conference is better and how some conferences are not worthy. Win your conference or shut up. All this talk of revamping the requirements has me laughing. I am sick of people wanting some 7-5 team in as an at large because they are better than an 9-3 team who won their conference. Win your games and this would not be an issue.

I like the auto bid. I don't care what their record is. It is a compromise. Determining who is worthy for the at-large is always a fun exercise, but people need to lay off the "this team is not worthy thing." If a team won their conference, what ever their conference rules are, they are worthy, because they won their conference. People need to get over it. Their will always be points to argue over the at-larges, but who the conference victors are should be off the table. This usually comes form some team on the bubble who feels slighted.

[ElCid]

Southern Utah is the #52 team in the FCS according to the Sagarin ratings.

i saw that also. When talking about at-larges, I was surprised. I think they are a pretty good team, but of all the teams that made the cut, they are the weakest per the computer. I think I would have taken a YSU over them, but they finished so badly, it was hard to justify. I would have taken a UTC over them.

[SIUSalukiFan]

If you don't think Samford or Tenn St are good then you have not been paying attention.

I have the Southern Conference TV package and watched Samford score with seven seconds left Saturday to rally by the mighty 2-9 Elon Phoenix and snag a playoff bid. I kid, I kid ... the SoCon gets props from me.

Tennessee State, on the other hand, gets to play Butler in the first round so it is guaranteed to break the OVC's playoff win futility streak.

[TennBison]

Seriously. I am so tired of hearing about which conference is better and how some conferences are not worthy. Win your conference or shut up. All this talk of revamping the requirements has me laughing. I am sick of people wanting some 7-5 team in as an at large because they are better than an 9-3 team who won their conference. Win your games and this would not be an issue.

I like the auto bid. I don't care what their record is. It is a compromise. Determining who is worthy for the at-large is always a fun exercise, but people need to lay off the "this team is not worthy thing." If a team won their conference, what ever their conference rules are, they are worthy, because they won their conference. People need to get over it. Their will always be points to argue over the at-larges, but who the conference victors are should be off the table. This usually comes form some team on the bubble who feels slighted.
Apply what you said and now see how you feel about a 5-6 (Lafayette) team making the playoffs over a 8-4 team like YSU, or even a 7-5 UNI. Can anyone here honestly say that 5-6 team in any realistic way deserves to be in over the other two, or any other team for that matter with those same or better records. The fact that Lafayette is in is nothing but a joke.

[ElCid]

I'll give Samford some respect but Tenn State?

Name me a significant win on their schedule.

They have good victories over Tenn-Martin and Jacksonville St on the road. Powerhouses? No. But good teams and both W's were on the road. But I am not just going to restrict it to w's and L's. I try and look at performances in L's as well. They played #2 E Illinois (18 point loss) and #13 B-C (3 point loss) good at home but got L's. About the only smear they have is crapping the bed at an on-again, off-again E Kentucky. They are 24 (FCS) per the computer (sag), but to me the computer is just a data point, but it favors them. Not that the OVC is necessarily the cream of the crop, but they are competitive this year. I think they at least deserve a shot at 9-3. They will handle Butler, but the rematch against E Ill will be tough.

[SIUSalukiFan]

Apply what you said and now see how you feel about a 5-6 (Lafayette) team making the playoffs over a 8-4 team like YSU, or even a 7-5 UNI. Can anyone here honestly say that 5-6 team in any realistic way deserves to be in over the other two, or any other team for that matter with those same or better records. The fact that Lafayette is in is nothing but a joke.

Maybe FCS needs to do the same thing they are about to do in FBS - hire a committee of knowledgeable football folks who will do nothing but watch FCS football all year then set the playoff field based on what they see.

I know good football and while I bash Tennessee State and Jacksonville State the fact of the matter is I haven't seen them play. I have seen Eastern Illinois - a phenomenal team - and only know nobody in the OVC could stay within 18 points of them.

A dedicated playoff selection crew can't be a worse idea than that half-assed NCAA poll/formula that seems to rule the day.

[ElCid]

Apply what you said and now see how you feel about a 5-6 (Lafayette) team making the playoffs over a 8-4 team like YSU, or even a 7-5 UNI. Can anyone here honestly say that 5-6 team in any realistic way deserves to be in over the other two, or any other team for that matter with those same or better records. The fact that Lafayette is in is nothing but a joke.

No it isn't a joke. I do not like it anymore than the next fan, but the formula that FCS has says it is fine. X number of conferences have auto bids. How they determine who their rep is is nobody's business but theirs. End of argument. It is a compromise. I am not willing to shut out any conference that takes part in this scheme of cyphering playoff spots. We have 13 spots for conferences. 2 have decided not to take part. That is 11 out of, now, 24 spots. I got no problem with that. And before too many people decide to complain, think about what if your conference had a down year. Want your spot taken? No, of course not. You will always get one, no questions asked. 13 at larges is sufficient to include the remaining spots by good teams. This leaves nobody out. Again, it is a compromise. Their is no fair way to decide otherwise. Any computer program can be built to favor whomever the programer decides. Also, if you want a comparison, it is kind of like why should Delaware, RI, or Wyoming get 2 Senators, the same as California or Texas which have 20-30 times the population. Go ahead and look up the history. It is called, compromise. When you force the issue, the entire house will crumble.

[JayJ79]

Apply what you said and now see how you feel about a 5-6 (Lafayette) team making the playoffs over a 8-4 team like YSU, or even a 7-5 UNI. Can anyone here honestly say that 5-6 team in any realistic way deserves to be in over the other two, or any other team for that matter with those same or better records. The fact that Lafayette is in is nothing but a joke.

they won their league. *shrug* people arguing against AQs just don't get it. it's like saying that North Dakota should get any representatives in congress b/c their population "record" is lousy.

[DSUrocks07]

they won their league. *shrug* people arguing against AQs just don't get it. it's like saying that North Dakota should get any representatives in congress b/c their population "record" is lousy.

Pffft, New York, California, Florida and Texas are the only states that matter. If people want to have a voice then they should just move there.

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/197i9mjr5kca5gif/original.gif

[BisonTru]

Not taking them out. I am saying that the other teams can't act like they are better than they are because NDSU is in the mix. They are not.

But having NDSU in your conference does affect your record. Take NDSU out and the valley could easily be a 4 playoff conference. UNI will be NDSU's best competition till frisco.

[Catbooster]

So you don't mind that your team sits at home while a 5-6 Lafayette makes it? Why don't you have your AD call up the NCAA and tell them your team wants to give up its spot in the playoffs and let one of those bubble teams in then. Lets see how you feel about an all auto bid only playoff then.
As a fan of a supposed bubble team, no, I don't mind that my team is sitting at home while Lafayette made it in the playoffs. We didn't earn a spot. Will Lafayette go far in the playoffs? Probably not, but neither would my team the way they're playing now. Lafayette having that berth doesn't really affect the playoffs - any of the bubble teams would probably have about the same result.

Additionally, Lafayette didn't take that berth from YSU, UNI or SIU (I'll just list the MVFC bubble teams since they're virtually the only ones complaining). They took that spot from Lehigh. It's an autoberth for their conference. And as much as the Lehigh fans are sometimes maligned, I don't see them complaining about Lafayette taking their berth.

Which brings us to autoberths. Perhaps the biggest complaint about the BCS system is that it locks out the little guys - the cinderella teams. Any step toward a true playoff that loosens the death-grip of the BCS conferences on the FBS championship is generally praised. Yet here we are proposing to move closer to their model? IMO, the autoberths are one of the best parts of our playoffs.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

But having NDSU in your conference does affect your record. Take NDSU out and the valley could easily be a 4 playoff conference. UNI will be NDSU's best competition till frisco.

So what? Is that the UNI team we'd be seeing in the playoffs? No.

[Wallace]

the MVFC has reason to complain, plain and simple.

[WileECoyote06]

There is a scholarship level of the NCAA that does not award autobids for their playoff system (Division II). Our system, especially considering that some conferences choose not to participate in the playoff system is much better.

[HensRock]

The MVFC is now what the CAA/Atlantic-10 was years ago.
A well-balanced, competitive league that beats up on each other.
Unfortunately, when you play 8 conference games, 8 losses need to be handed out.
10 teams playing 8 games against each other, means that 40 losses need to be distributed.
That averages out to 4 losses each. In an unbalanced league, the bulk of those losses go to a few teams while the rest get the lions share of the W's.
In a balanced league the losses are more evenly distributed, leaving the margin for error in OOC games very small.

MVFC,
Welcome to the (former) CAA!

[penguinpower]

As I stated before. There is an East Coast Bias. TSN was out waving the flag 2-3 weeks ago about the strength and depth of the CAA.

Joe Scalzo of the Y-Town Vindicator did an article about a week ago about the selection process when he interviewed YSU's AD Ron Strollo. Strollo said that there is no scientific method used. Reading between the lines the at large team picking is all politics. Since Patty Viverito carries no weight in football (an area that women need to stay the **** out of since they don't play) the MVFC has been under represented. I have stated before, that YSU must win the conference to get in, otherwise there is discrimination against them. I am not saying that YSU deserves to be in, but this is not new. It has happened 4 times since 2005. It was revealed that YSU the last bubble team being considered, meaning they would have placed 4 other teams above them before choosing YSU this year. That is politics and the kids and coaches, athletics department, and fans that dump all of their time and money into state of the art facilities for football deserve better. YSU is not and does not want to be known as a basketball school.

The issue that I have is that the criteria changes from year to year. In the past they said you need to have 7 division 1 wins, one year the said you can't have a losing streak at the end of the year (they used this one again this year but have allowed other teams in with losing streaks in other years past) then they said they were using the GPI and now the SRS. That is all bull****. The decisions are made in a smoke filled room with back of the napkin analysis with conference representatives making an argument for their conferences or even other conferences.

It is really sad it is that way. In this day and age you would think when the livelyhoods of people are involved something more scientific would be used.

One other item that I would like to point out is that when YSU last made the playoffs in 2006 they were the MVFC champions and instead of playing a team around number 14,15 or 16, they were paired against JMU who was ranked very high and was picked to beat us that year. That was a loud and clear message that says that they think the MVFC is weak or that they just don't want YSU in the field. Not to beat a dead horse, but YSU will only get in if they win the conference. That is what the data says.

At the end of the day arguably the strongest conference (anyway you slice it) only got two team into the field and that is bull****. I have not looked at the brackets but if NDSU and SDSU are placed in opposite brackets they can ruun the table and meet in Frisco. I don't think they will do that, but I have seen both teams and there are very few weaknesses on either teams and SDSU is playing some good ball right now.

UNI is also an excellent team and I sure as hell would not want to play YSU if I were in the playoffs because they can play well when they put it together. I think the injuries took a toll on YSU in the last 2 games. Hess really didn't play much against NDSU and he was not mobile adainst SDSU. I think the team simply did not play as well knowing he was a liability.

I'm not bitching either. Just saying it the way it is.

[penguinpower]

The MVFC is now what the CAA/Atlantic-10 was years ago.
A well-balanced, competitive league that beats up on each other.
Unfortunately, when you play 8 conference games, 8 losses need to be handed out.
10 teams playing 8 games against each other, means that 40 losses need to be distributed.
That averages out to 4 losses each. In an unbalanced league, the bulk of those losses go to a few teams while the rest get the lions share of the W's.
In a balanced league the losses are more evenly distributed, leaving the margin for error in OOC games very small.

MVFC,
Welcome to the (former) CAA!

I fully agree.

[clenz]

The MVFC is now what the CAA/Atlantic-10 was years ago.
A well-balanced, competitive league that beats up on each other.
Unfortunately, when you play 8 conference games, 8 losses need to be handed out.
10 teams playing 8 games against each other, means that 40 losses need to be distributed.
That averages out to 4 losses each. In an unbalanced league, the bulk of those losses go to a few teams while the rest get the lions share of the W's.
In a balanced league the losses are more evenly distributed, leaving the margin for error in OOC games very small.

MVFC,
Welcome to the (former) CAA!
When that was happening the CAA still got 4-6 teams in because of how strong the conference was. Conferences like the MVFC were told we needed to be better top to bottom to get more bids. Now that the MVFC is strong top to bottom (save InSU...who sadly UNI didn't get to play this year as we'd be in if we did) we are we don't get more teams because the records aren't very good.

It's a no win situation apparently in the MVFC unless the conference adds 2 or 3 bottom feeders. That allows every one of the top teams to play the bottom feeders and average teams and occasionally playing eachother. That gives the top teams wins and bottom teams more losses. The MVFC needs to pull Drake out of the PFL and tell them they don't have to offer scholarships if they don't want too and bring along Valpo and/or Butler....

That gives the MVFC 12/13 teams and a clear separation from top to bottom

[penguinpower]

When that was happening the CAA still got 4-6 teams in because of how strong the conference was. Conferences like the MVFC were told we needed to be better top to bottom to get more bids. Now that the MVFC is strong top to bottom (save InSU...who sadly UNI didn't get to play this year as we'd be in if we did) we are we don't get more teams because the records aren't very good.

It's a no win situation apparently in the MVFC unless the conference adds 2 or 3 bottom feeders. That allows every one of the top teams to play the bottom feeders and average teams and occasionally playing eachother. That gives the top teams wins and bottom teams more losses. The MVFC needs to pull Drake out of the PFL and tell them they don't have to offer scholarships if they don't want too and bring along Valpo and/or Butler....

That gives the MVFC 12/13 teams and a clear separation from top to bottom

Thanks for bringing that up. Some people forget about those remarks back in the mid 2000's. The CAA once placed 5 teams in a 10 team league.

Viverito has no pull either. It is obvious.

[Houndawg]

The ticket for the MVC is to schedule down but not too far down for OOC.

[SIUSalukiFan]

When that was happening the CAA still got 4-6 teams in because of how strong the conference was. Conferences like the MVFC were told we needed to be better top to bottom to get more bids. Now that the MVFC is strong top to bottom (save InSU...who sadly UNI didn't get to play this year as we'd be in if we did) we are we don't get more teams because the records aren't very good.

It's a no win situation apparently in the MVFC unless the conference adds 2 or 3 bottom feeders. That allows every one of the top teams to play the bottom feeders and average teams and occasionally playing eachother. That gives the top teams wins and bottom teams more losses. The MVFC needs to pull Drake out of the PFL and tell them they don't have to offer scholarships if they don't want too and bring along Valpo and/or Butler....

That gives the MVFC 12/13 teams and a clear separation from top to bottom

1) Has anybody heard anybody talk about the MVFC splitting into two divisions? SIU coach Dale Lennon brought it up Sunday night in a press conference and it's a pretty interesting idea.

2) Why is Northern Iowa being talked about as the fourth team in the MVFC playoff pecking order this year when Southern Illinois beat the Panthers in Cedar Falls, had the same overall record and won two more league games? Wait ... your AD was on the selection committee. xlolx

[TypicalTribe]

the MVFC has reason to complain, plain and simple.

No, they really don't. There was never any expectation that five loss teams were going to be seriously considered and YSU lost three straight chances to lock up a bid, including getting annihilated at home in the season finale. The Penguins didn't give the committee a compelling reason to put them in and that closing stretch gave them reason to leave them out. I have no love for SHSU or SUU, but Sammy had a marquee win over EWU and two straight finals appearances and SUU had a good win on the road over Montana State on the next-to-last Saturday. All any of the MVFC teams had to do was...wait for it...win another game.

[SIUSalukiFan]

No, they really don't. There was never any expectation that five loss teams were going to be seriously considered and YSU lost three straight chances to lock up a bid, including getting annihilated at home in the season finale. The Penguins didn't give the committee a compelling reason to put them in and that closing stretch gave them reason to leave them out. I have no love for SHSU or SUU, but Sammy had a marquee win over EWU and two straight finals appearances and SUU had a good win on the road over Montana State on the next-to-last Saturday. All any of the MVFC teams had to do was...wait for it...win another game.

Do you believe if Youngstown State had won Saturday that South Dakota State would have still got a bid at 7-5? I don't. It's pretty obvious the MVFC was only going to get two bids no matter what.

And that's what's a little infuriating to fans of the league. What's really funny is this - if you watched the selection show William & Mary was listed as one of the last three teams out. I'm sure if you had beaten Richmond you were in the field in place of Jacksonville State or somebody like that. Would that have been a travesty? No. You guys had an awfully good team. It would have improved the overall field.

All you had to do was get to eight wins and you are in the field but Youngstown State was held to a different standard. Maybe an eight-win UNI and/or Southern Illinois would have been treated differently than YSU but that's no guarantee.

[TypicalTribe]

Thanks for bringing that up. Some people forget about those remarks back in the mid 2000's. The CAA once placed 5 teams in a 10 team league.

Go back and look at the records from some of those years though. The CAA in 2008 was tremendous and all five of those teams had records that merited being picked. Four of them won first-round games, two made the semis and Richmond won the national championship. In 2009, four teams made it and I think all four had beaten FBS teams, including the Tribe's win over Virginia. Villanova won the National Championship. What made the CAA unique in that stretch was the depth of the teams that had great seasons and made deep runs. Four different schools won titles and I think six made it as far as the semis.

Ultimately, the CAA this year dealt with pretty much the same thing the MVFC did. Delaware was 7-2 and had a win over a seed (Towson) but lost their last three. W&M played West Virginia and seven ranked teams but lost their last two to finish 7-5 as well. More notably, due to the CAA schedule, the Tribe didn't get to play either Stony Brook or Albany, while New Hampshire missed Delaware and Richmond. So, Delaware and W&M needed one more win, as did 6-5 Villanova ultimately and even 6-6 Richmond lost three games by a combined 5 points. They all knocked off each other and so none had enough wins to make a compelling case.

[eiupantherfan94]

I'll give Samford some respect but Tenn State?

Name me a significant win on their schedule.

Depending on how you view them, the Tigers defeated both Jacksonville State and Jackson State.

[TypicalTribe]

Do you believe if Youngstown State had won Saturday that South Dakota State would have still got a bid at 7-5? I don't. It's pretty obvious the MVFC was only going to get two bids no matter what.

And that's what's a little infuriating to fans of the league. What's really funny is this - if you watched the selection show William & Mary was listed as one of the last three teams out. I'm sure if you had beaten Richmond you were in the field in place of Jacksonville State or somebody like that. Would that have been a travesty? No. You guys had an awfully good team. It would have improved the overall field.

All you had to do was get to eight wins and you are in the field but Youngstown State was held to a different standard. Maybe an eight-win UNI and/or Southern Illinois would have been treated differently than YSU but that's no guarantee.

SDSU would not have gotten in at 7-5, just like all the other 5 loss teams, including Villanova who beat Towson, W&M and Delaware. 5 loss teams will not get in except under extraordinary circumstances.

As for YSU, they were not held to a different standard. They lost their last three games and did not have a signature win to hang their hat on. So they were edged out by other 8-4 teams that had better wins to pint towards. Youngstown had opportunities on their home field the last two weeks and couldn't take advantage, including losing to another bubble team by 29 points to close the season.

[stuperman17]

I've only skimmed through all of these posts, as I've completely accepted YSU being left out by now.

Here's my take on it. Yes, the MVFC should have gotten more than 2 teams in; considering the strength of the conference. And I agree with a previous post I did see, I think no matter who won the SDSU/YSU game; only one of them were getting in. 2 is not enough for a league this brutal.

However, as a long time YSU fan.....I don't feel like they got screwed here. They blew it. They don't deserve to be in at all. Do I think they're better than a handful of schools that made it in?.. Yes. But they don't deserve to be in, end of story. They had their chance.. and they **** the bed. I'm sure the team knows it too.

No whining here.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

The thing that I don't understand is the fact that someone/anyone thinks this is all static and the things that happen one year will recur over and over.

Some years there are a load of good teams finishing with 7,8, &9 wins, some years there are only a few to choose from.

The bigger the pool of bubble teams the better and deeper your resume has to be. The committee doesn't always have to go down to "a team finishing on a losing streak" or some of the more granulated devices to make decisions and sometime they do have to.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I've only skimmed through all of these posts, as I've completely accepted YSU being left out by now.

Here's my take on it. Yes, the MVFC should have gotten more than 2 teams in; considering the strength of the conference. And I agree with a previous post I did see, I think no matter who won the SDSU/YSU game; only one of them were getting in. 2 is not enough for a league this brutal.

However, as a long time YSU fan.....I don't feel like they got screwed here. They blew it. They don't deserve to be in at all. Do I think they're better than a handful of schools that made it in?.. Yes. But they don't deserve to be in, end of story. They had their chance.. and they **** the bed. I'm sure the team knows it too.

No whining here.

Good take on it man. I agree that if YSU had gotten in they would be tough, would challenge and very, very like beat the piss out of some contestants. But taking some of the responsibility for how it all came about is refreshing to say the least.

[SIUSalukiFan]

SDSU would not have gotten in at 7-5, just like all the other 5 loss teams, including Villanova who beat Towson, W&M and Delaware. 5 loss teams will not get in except under extraordinary circumstances.

As for YSU, they were not held to a different standard. They lost their last three games and did not have a signature win to hang their hat on. So they were edged out by other 8-4 teams that had better wins to pint towards. Youngstown had opportunities on their home field the last two weeks and couldn't take advantage, including losing to another bubble team by 29 points to close the season.

I believe they were. I'm not sure how not having a signature win is the barometer for 8-4 and 7-5 teams but it's not for a nine-win team from a BS conference.

Maybe we can take Youngstown State, Southern Illinois and Northern Iowa and put them with the Tribe, Richmond and Delaware and have an unsanctioned tourney during the holidays. xlolx

That would actually be pretty entertaining.

[stuperman17]

I believe they were. I'm not sure how not having a signature win is the barometer for 8-4 and 7-5 teams but it's not for a nine-win team from a BS conference.

Maybe we can take Youngstown State, Southern Illinois and Northern Iowa and put them with the Tribe, Richmond and Delaware and have an unsanctioned tourney during the holidays. xlolx

That would actually be pretty entertaining.

It could be an "NIT" of sorts haha

[TypicalTribe]

Easier question, what did Youngstown actually accomplish on the field that merited inclusion and should have outweighed the collapse at the end? I see 7 wins over mediocre to poor OOC teams and four wins over MVFC teams with losing records. That leaves a late-September one-point win over Southern Illinois. Is that the argument for inclusion?

[stuperman17]

I wasn't making an argument....

[JSUBison]

1) Has anybody heard anybody talk about the MVFC splitting into two divisions? SIU coach Dale Lennon brought it up Sunday night in a press conference and it's a pretty interesting idea.

2) Why is Northern Iowa being talked about as the fourth team in the MVFC playoff pecking order this year when Southern Illinois beat the Panthers in Cedar Falls, had the same overall record and won two more league games? Wait ... your AD was on the selection committee. xlolx

On point 1, no I didn't hear what Lennon said. What was his plan on that?


The thing that I don't understand is the fact that someone/anyone thinks this is all static and the things that happen one year will recur over and over.

Some years there are a load of good teams finishing with 7,8, &9 wins, some years there are only a few to choose from.

The bigger the pool of bubble teams the better and deeper your resume has to be. The committee doesn't always have to go down to "a team finishing on a losing streak" or some of the more granulated devices to make decisions and sometime they do have to.

I don't know about the rest of the poll voters, but this year seemed kind of harder than years past to figure out teams outside the top 8-10. If I had problems figuring out how to place teams, I'm sure the committee struggled as well.

[SIUSalukiFan]

On point 1, no I didn't hear what Lennon said. What was his plan on that?

http://www.siusalukis.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/112413aab.html

[ursus arctos horribilis]

On point 1, no I didn't hear what Lennon said. What was his plan on that?



I don't know about the rest of the poll voters, but this year seemed kind of harder than years past to figure out teams outside the top 8-10. If I had problems figuring out how to place teams, I'm sure the committee struggled as well.

You are dead on sir. That is exactly the different perspective that those who vote in the poll have that most do not.

There were no politics or conspiracies going on in our ballots and even then it's tough as hell to put things together in a way that you feel is completely comfortable and we have tons of information available to us everyday on this board to make these decision and have these arguments as the season progressed.

[SIUSalukiFan]

Easier question, what did Youngstown actually accomplish on the field that merited inclusion and should have outweighed the collapse at the end? I see 7 wins over mediocre to poor OOC teams and four wins over MVFC teams with losing records. That leaves a late-September one-point win over Southern Illinois. Is that the argument for inclusion?

What did Jacksonville State accomplish on the field that merited inclusion? Was it the back-to-back overtime wins over non-affiliated North Alabama and Georgia State? The October win over 7-5 UT-Martin? We can play this game with several teams.

My point is this - the MVFC was only going to get two teams in the playoffs regardless of what happened Saturday and as a fan of the No. 1 ranked conference that seems a bit odd. I'm not sure why the Penguins were put under the microscope where 4-5 other teams didn't get the same treatment.

[penguinpower]

Easier question, what did Youngstown actually accomplish on the field that merited inclusion and should have outweighed the collapse at the end? I see 7 wins over mediocre to poor OOC teams and four wins over MVFC teams with losing records. That leaves a late-September one-point win over Southern Illinois. Is that the argument for inclusion?

The selection criteria at least at one time was 7 division 1 wins-YSU has 8.

SOS was not taken into account on the with other conferences. You have to be fair across the board if you want to drag that into the equation. Look a SHSU's schedule and record.

If the MVFC is not the toughest conference then it deserves only two teams but if it is the toughest or at least upper tier then it deserves at least 3 just as the CAA and the Big Sky got correct? That would only be fair.


Jeff Bourne said that how the teams played FBS teams mattered greatly. He also said number of wins was an important factor. UNI put a major beatdown on McNeese and had a win over an FBS team and the committee's response to that was that teams had to win league games. That is how they disqualified UNI, by adding this new requirement-winning league games. If the MVFC is really a tough conference you must automatically assume that league games are more difficult to win.

[jacksfan29]

http://www.siusalukis.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/112413aab.html

Interesting comments. Not sure how it would work, that would be an awful lot of OOC games we would need to schedule. I'm thinking of just how hard it is for NDSU to get anyone to come up to Fargo and play them OOC. My guess it that a split would mean bringing D2 schools back onto the schedule, something I am not in favor of. Now, if would could add two teams to the mix, one north one south two 6 team leagues; with one or two games inter-league I think it gets more interesting. It sounds as if Lennon has talked about this with others in the conference. Could it happen?

[Mountaineer]

Weaksauce. xlolx

Q: What would you like to see corrected about the process?

“One thing we have talked about is splitting the conference into a north-south league. I’m of the belief you should play everyone in your league and have a true conference champion, but by doing that, your records won’t be as impressive at the end of the year. If you have a north-south, east-west or however you want to break it up; you don’t play everyone in your league. You play more non-conference games, therefore, at the end of the year you have a much more attractive schedule to make the playoffs. So that’s something we are considering.

Was Lennon crying into his blankey the entire press conference? For SIU it was simple, win one more game. Beat Missouri State at home and your problems are solved.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Weaksauce. xlolx

Q: What would you like to see corrected about the process?

“One thing we have talked about is splitting the conference into a north-south league. I’m of the belief you should play everyone in your league and have a true conference champion, but by doing that, your records won’t be as impressive at the end of the year. If you have a north-south, east-west or however you want to break it up; you don’t play everyone in your league. You play more non-conference games, therefore, at the end of the year you have a much more attractive schedule to make the playoffs. So that’s something we are considering.

Was Lennon crying into his blankey the entire press conference? For SIU it was simple, win one more game. Beat Missouri State at home and your problems are solved.

Read: We don't want to play NDSU every year.

[TypicalTribe]

The selection criteria at least at one time was 7 division 1 wins-YSU has 8.

SOS was not taken into account on the with other conferences. You have to be fair across the board if you want to drag that into the equation. Look a SHSU's schedule and record.

If the MVFC is not the toughest conference then it deserves only two teams but if it is the toughest or at least upper tier then it deserves at least 3 just as the CAA and the Big Sky got correct? That would only be fair.


Jeff Bourne said that how the teams played FBS teams mattered greatly. He also said number of wins was an important factor. UNI put a major beatdown on McNeese and had a win over an FBS team and the committee's response to that was that teams had to win league games. That is how they disqualified UNI, by adding this new requirement-winning league games. If the MVFC is really a tough conference you must automatically assume that league games are more difficult to win.

You seem to be under the impression that the MVFC should have gotten more teams in the field simply because they were members of the conference. The overall conference strength is not what determines playoff teams, individual bodies of work do. Unfortunately for the league, the individual teams did not have compelling enough records.

There is no conspiracy involved. Five loss teams, especially those with five conference losses simpy don't get into the playoffs and they won't in the years to come barring extraordinary circumstances. Again, I have no love for many of the at-large selections but it doesn't change the fact that YSU did very little on the field to overcome closing the season in such poor fashion.

[Herder]

Yet the CAA got 3 teams into the playoff incluing a 7-4 team, and had 2 seeds. In Fact, the CAA, Southland and Big Sky all had 2 seeded teams, and all had at least 3 teams in the field. The sagarin ratings do not support the CAA, Big Sky and Southland being anywhere near the strength of the MVFC. How do you expalin that? The FBS discussions are always talking about "The eye Test" in evaluating teams. Clearly the selection committee is blind. The Big Sky, the 6th ranked conference in FCS got 4 teams in . . . hard to understand.

16 MISSOURI VALLEY (AA)= 59.80 59.67 ( 15) 10 59.47 ( 17)
17 CONFERENCE USA-EAST (A) = 58.33 56.96 ( 18) 7 59.54 ( 16)
18 SUN BELT (A) = 57.93 57.52 ( 17) 8 57.74 ( 18)
19 MAC-EAST (A) = 57.30 56.95 ( 19) 7 57.30 ( 19)
20 COLONIAL (AA)= 56.96 55.80 ( 20) 11 56.89 ( 20)
21 SOUTHLAND (AA)= 53.18 53.58 ( 21) 8 53.32 ( 21)
22 OHIO VALLEY (AA)= 51.66 51.33 ( 22) 9 51.37 ( 22)
23 IVY LEAGUE (AA)= 50.07 48.42 ( 24) 8 50.44 ( 23)
24 BIG SKY (AA)= 48.93 48.83 ( 23) 13 48.96 ( 24)

In my strong opinion, some balance should have been brought to the equation in favor of the MoValley. The 4th team in the Big Sky should have been replaced with a 3rd Valley team (Youngstown), just to keep some balance and sanity in the equation. Does New Hampshire with 7 wins have a better shot at winning the title than SUI or UNI, also with 7 wins?

[TypicalTribe]

Again, we are not arguing about conferences as a whole, simply the bodies of work of individual teams. UNH got in because they went 6-1 to close the season and pounded a top 5 Maine team in the last game. Isn't that more than YSU could offer?

[SIUSalukiFan]

Read: We don't want to play NDSU every year.

SIU damn near beat you in 2011 and 2012 and we led at halftime this year so I'm not sure the Salukis are trying to dodge NDSU. But, nice try.

[SIUSalukiFan]

Again, we are not arguing about conferences as a whole, simply the bodies of work of individual teams. UNH got in because they went 6-1 to close the season and pounded a top 5 Maine team in the last game. Isn't that more than YSU could offer?

Answer the Jacksonville State question I posed earlier then. Quit going to back to Youngstown. xlolx

And, critique Southern Utah and a couple of other "last four ins" while you are at it.

[344Johnson]

See here's the thing. The Bison are clearly heads and shoulders above the rest of the MVFC. We aren't listening to and fielding arguments on The Biosn because that case is made and clearly set.

Now the rest trying to grab some charity ranking and status is the problem. Without NDSU in that conference it's not even a question in my mind that it is not the best conference. Probably 3rd or 4th. The rest of the teams outside of the next clear top team (SDSU) are just middle of the pack in any of the top 4 conferences.

SDSU is a very tough team and would challenge the top of any of the conferences for a title and that is why they are in. Right now NDSU would waltz through any FCS conference.


Tough to say where the Valley would be...if you take 'SU out or at least bring 'em back to Earth..a couple of those on the bubble would probably have an extra win and the Valley could have 3 or 4 teams in. Tough to get the requisite number of wins when you have an FBS, and NDSU on your schedule.

That said, these teams who missed out had games they should have won, but lost, on their schedules. I think next year the Valley will be able to get another team or two in just because NDSU likely won't be throwing teams around so much.

EDIT: Another thing the Valley teams NEED to do, is win some playoff games when they do qualify for the playoffs. Wonder why the Big Sky gets teams in? Cause Montana, EWU, and Montana State(I know they choke in the QTRs) win at least a game or two when they make it in...if the committee routinely is seeing Valley teams(outside of NDSU) make it past the first couple rounds, they will give more bids to the conference.

[penguinpower]

Again, we are not arguing about conferences as a whole, simply the bodies of work of individual teams. UNH got in because they went 6-1 to close the season and pounded a top 5 Maine team in the last game. Isn't that more than YSU could offer?

The committee did a bad job. I could argue that UNI gets in over YSU. Doesn't matter. The MVFC teams were screwed. And this was political becuase they held them to a higher standard. It is flat out wrong.

[Herder]

Again, we are not arguing about conferences as a whole, simply the bodies of work of individual teams. UNH got in because they went 6-1 to close the season and pounded a top 5 Maine team in the last game. Isn't that more than YSU could offer?

You cannot argue about an individual team without considering the conf they play in. A win in the Pioneer is not the same as a win the CAA. UNH did not play SDSU, NDSU and UNI to end the season . . . and they had 7 wins, which apparently meant nothing in the MVFC . . . even 8 wins meant nothing. Maybe Miane should have been move out of a Seed position, after all they ended the regular season on a losing streak and got thrashed by a 7 win team.

By the way, in UNH last 4 games, they got shutout, beat 2 teams with losing records in Albany and Stony, the had a good win vs. Maine. Not that impressive, other than Maine.

The committee arbitrarily decided that losses in some conferences were devistating to playoff chances, while losses in other conferences (CAA) were meaningless.

[penguinpower]

You are smoking the crack pipe ursus. You think the BIG Sky is that tough? I don't think anyone will even compete with the two valley teams in the playoffs until they eliminate themselves. SIU nearly beat EIU and Big 10 Illinois. The valley is the best conference TOP to BOTTOM

[ursus arctos horribilis]

You are smoking the crack pipe ursus. You think the BIG Sky is that tough? I don't think anyone will even compete with the two valley teams in the playoffs until they eliminate themselves. SIU nearly beat EIU and Big 10 Illinois. The valley is the best conference TOP to BOTTOM


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWn0OCs0h-E

[Herder]

Ursus . . . the Big Sky was 6th ranked as an FCS conference. There's some wins in those there numbers for the Big Sky's top teams.

16 MISSOURI VALLEY (AA)= 59.80 59.67 ( 15) 10 59.47 ( 17)
17 CONFERENCE USA-EAST (A) = 58.33 56.96 ( 18) 7 59.54 ( 16)
18 SUN BELT (A) = 57.93 57.52 ( 17) 8 57.74 ( 18)
19 MAC-EAST (A) = 57.30 56.95 ( 19) 7 57.30 ( 19)
20 COLONIAL (AA)= 56.96 55.80 ( 20) 11 56.89 ( 20)
21 SOUTHLAND (AA)= 53.18 53.58 ( 21) 8 53.32 ( 21)
22 OHIO VALLEY (AA)= 51.66 51.33 ( 22) 9 51.37 ( 22)
23 IVY LEAGUE (AA)= 50.07 48.42 ( 24) 8 50.44 ( 23)
24 BIG SKY (AA)= 48.93 48.83 ( 23) 13 48.96 ( 24)

[SIUSalukiFan]

EDIT: Another thing the Valley teams NEED to do, is win some playoff games when they do qualify for the playoffs. Wonder why the Big Sky gets teams in? Cause Montana, EWU, and Montana State(I know they choke in the QTRs) win at least a game or two when they make it in...if the committee routinely is seeing Valley teams(outside of NDSU) make it past the first couple rounds, they will give more bids to the conference.

Are you on crack?

We all know that in 2012 NDSU won the championship but Illinois State made the quarters and South Dakota State crushed Eastern Illinois in the first round.

In 2011 NDSU won the title and Northern Iowa advanced to the quarters.

In 2010 Western Illinois and NDSU won first-round games and NDSU advanced to the quarters.

In 2009 Southern Illinois advanced to the quarters.

We win plenty as long as we can get there.

Now, let me regale you with the number of OVC playoff wins during that same time span ...

[TypicalTribe]

You cannot argue about an individual team without considering the conf they play in. A win in the Pioneer is not the same as a win the CAA. UNH did not play SDSU, NDSU and UNI to end the season . . . and they had 7 wins, which apparently meant nothing in the MVFC . . . even 8 wins meant nothing. Maybe Miane should have been move out of a Seed position, after all they ended the regular season on a losing streak and got thrashed by a 7 win team.

By the way, in UNH last 4 games, they got shutout, beat 2 teams with losing records in Albany and Stony, the had a good win vs. Maine. Not that impressive, other than Maine.

The committee arbitrarily decided that losses in some conferences were devistating to playoff chances, while losses in other conferences (CAA) were meaningless.

But the argument I was responding to was that the MVFC deserved another team because it was the best conference. It doesn't work like that. The individual teams need to merit inclusion. 5 loss teams are not going to make it into the field unless there are extraordinary circumstances, no matter how good they may be or how good the conference is.

Also, UNH's profile isn't overwhelming, but it's still better than YSU's.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Ursus . . . the Big Sky was 6th ranked as an FCS conference. There's some wins in those there numbers for the Big Sky's top teams.

16 MISSOURI VALLEY (AA)= 59.80 59.67 ( 15) 10 59.47 ( 17)
17 CONFERENCE USA-EAST (A) = 58.33 56.96 ( 18) 7 59.54 ( 16)
18 SUN BELT (A) = 57.93 57.52 ( 17) 8 57.74 ( 18)
19 MAC-EAST (A) = 57.30 56.95 ( 19) 7 57.30 ( 19)
20 COLONIAL (AA)= 56.96 55.80 ( 20) 11 56.89 ( 20)
21 SOUTHLAND (AA)= 53.18 53.58 ( 21) 8 53.32 ( 21)
22 OHIO VALLEY (AA)= 51.66 51.33 ( 22) 9 51.37 ( 22)
23 IVY LEAGUE (AA)= 50.07 48.42 ( 24) 8 50.44 ( 23)
24 BIG SKY (AA)= 48.93 48.83 ( 23) 13 48.96 ( 24)

I really don't know why any of you think I care or that the what the computer says matters to me in any way. If it matters to you great, have at it but you won't be convincing me of anything with it.xthumbsupx

[TypicalTribe]

Answer the Jacksonville State question I posed earlier then. Quit going to back to Youngstown. xlolx

And, critique Southern Utah and a couple of other "last four ins" while you are at it.

I'll say it again, I have no love for some of the other at-larges. Southern Utah is the shakiest case, but I think the committee respected the FBS win and the road win at Montana State. JSU, TSU and SCSU basically get credit for those nice, shiny 9-3 marks they brought to the table.

[SIUSalukiFan]

I'll say it again, I have no love for some of the other at-larges. Southern Utah is the shakiest case, but I think the committee respected the FBS win and the road win at Montana State. JSU, TSU and SCSU basically get credit for those nice, shiny 9-3 marks they brought to the table.

I'm really not trying to be a dick here but how does a win over 7-5 Montana State carry more weight than a win over a 7-5 Southern Illinois? It's kind of a slippery slope. I don't put much stock in the SU win over South Alabama, although it is an FBS win.

While some of the noise from me and my MVFC brethren can be construed as whining I'd like to see the reaction of CAA and Big Sky folks if the same scenario happened to them. It's just odd. You have given rational explanations on several teams and I respect your thoughts.

Three bids for the OVC and two for the MEAC have me up in arms. xlolx

[clenz]

Are you on crack?

We all know that in 2012 NDSU won the championship but Illinois State made the quarters and South Dakota State crushed Eastern Illinois in the first round.

In 2011 NDSU won the title and Northern Iowa advanced to the quarters.

In 2010 Western Illinois and NDSU won first-round games and NDSU advanced to the quarters.

In 2009 Southern Illinois advanced to the quarters.

We win plenty as long as we can get there.

Now, let me regale you with the number of OVC playoff wins during that same time span ...

UNI national title game in 2005...entered the playoffs with a 7-4 record

UNI 2007 quarters

UNI 2008 semis

What's this about not winning games when teams get there?

If it is about winning games when you get there why did the OVC (winless since 97) and MEAC get as many/more than the MVFC

Sent from my S4 using Tapatalk

[dbackjon]

I'm really not trying to be a dick here but how does a win over 7-5 Montana State carry more weight than a win over a 7-5 Southern Illinois? It's kind of a slippery slope. I don't put much stock in the SU win over South Alabama, although it is an FBS win.

While some of the noise from me and my MVFC brethren can be construed as whining I'd like to see the reaction of CAA and Big Sky folks if the same scenario happened to them. It's just odd. You have given rational explanations on several teams and I respect your thoughts.

Three bids for the OVC and two for the MEAC have me up in arms. xlolx


NAU got left out last year at 8-3, with an FBS win.

Again, if SIU didn't have 5 losses (i.e. beat a weak Missouri State) then they'd be in. Or maybe more than 6 DI wins.

[clenz]

NAU got left out last year at 8-3, with an FBS win.

Again, if SIU didn't have 5 losses (i.e. beat a weak Missouri State) then they'd be in. Or maybe more than 6 DI wins.

The issue is you can't use the 6 win argument

Sent from my S4 using Tapatalk

[SIUSalukiFan]

NAU got left out last year at 8-3, with an FBS win.

Tough one. You had the misfortune of having three teams tie a 7-1 atop the Big Sky and NAU wasn't one of them. At least the OVC didn't steal your at-large bid.

[SIUSalukiFan]

UNI national title game in 2005...entered the playoffs with a 7-4 record

UNI 2007 quarters

UNI 2008 semis

What's this about not winning games when teams get there?

If it is about winning games when you get there why did the OVC (winless since 97) and MEAC get as many/more than the MVFC

Sent from my S4 using Tapatalk

Preach it, my brother in purple!

[TypicalTribe]

I'm really not trying to be a dick here but how does a win over 7-5 Montana State carry more weight than a win over a 7-5 Southern Illinois? It's kind of a slippery slope. I don't put much stock in the SU win over South Alabama, although it is an FBS win.

While some of the noise from me and my MVFC brethren can be construed as whining I'd like to see the reaction of CAA and Big Sky folks if the same scenario happened to them. It's just odd. You have given rational explanations on several teams and I respect your thoughts.

Three bids for the OVC and two for the MEAC have me up in arms. xlolx

It carries more weight because it was the next to last week of the season and it was on the road against an MSU team that was in the top 10 at the time. And the FBS win against South Alabama is legitimate because they weren't exactly terrible this year, especially compared to Georgia State.

As for the CAA, it was in pretty much the same boat this year as the MVFC, with several teams that ended up a win short of probably being included.

Do I think both conferences have better teams than JSU, TSU and SCSU? Absolutely. But those same CAA/MVFC teams had multiple chances to play their way into the field and didn't take advantage of them. So, it's hard to complain about not being included.

For the record, I'm still upset about my senior year when Idaho got the last at-large over the Tribe despite one less win. Still bothers me.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

It carries more weight because it was the next to last week of the season and it was on the road against an MSU team that was in the top 10 at the time. And the FBS win against South Alabama is legitimate because they weren't exactly terrible this year, especially compared to Georgia State.

As for the CAA, it was in pretty much the same boat this year as the MVFC, with several teams that ended up a win short of probably being included.

Do I think both conferences have better teams than JSU, TSU and SCSU? Absolutely. But those same CAA/MVFC teams had multiple chances to play their way into the field and didn't take advantage of them. So, it's hard to complain about not being included.

For the record, I'm still upset about my senior year when Idaho got the last at-large over the Tribe despite one less win. Still bothers me.

That case in particular shows how much weight the committee puts on winning down the stretch. They started off 0-4 and then won their final seven if you are talking about 1995?

[clenz]

That case in particular shows how much weight the committee puts on winning down the stretch. They started off 0-4 and then won their final seven if you are talking about 1995?

SHSU lost their last 2

Sent from my S4 using Tapatalk

[dungeonjoe]

The term "Woofed" comes from 2002 and a "deserving" Wofford team that got left out. Wofford lost to VMI that year and that is what cost my team. The truth is, Wofford didn't so what they needed to do in 2002. Looking back, not getting selected set us up to go strong for the next decade. In 2003, Wofford was on fire and went deep in the playoffs.

Life is about how you respond to the setbacks you face. Your team didn't get in, what happens next year?

[SIUSalukiFan]

Life is about how you respond to the setbacks you face. Your team didn't get in, what happens next year?

I sent an email to our AD today asking him to apply for admission into the OVC or MEAC.

[penguinpower]

The committee has shown that it is inconsistent, biased, and picks and chooses which so called "guidelines" they will arbitrarily use to get the teams they want into the field.

[dbackjon]

I sent an email to our AD today asking him to apply for admission into the OVC or MEAC.

As long as you keep losing to the Missouri State's of the world, doesn't matter what conference you are in.

[SIUSalukiFan]

As long as you keep losing to the Missouri State's of the world, doesn't matter what conference you are in.

When Northern Arizona wins a conference or national title let me know. Until then, use your energy to figure out a way to beat Montana State.

[ndsubison]

Not to be a homer but as an NDSU and Valley fan I have to scratch my head. NDSU obviously gets in, SDSU (an underrated team) gets in, Youngstown got majorly screwed and UNI on a good day can give anybody a run for their money. SIU and ISUr are no slouches, either. Any top 4 Valley team could make a nice playoff run. S.O.S. needs to be taken into consideration, IMO.

[putter]

really? UNI goes O-Fer in the month of October and finishes 7-5, YSU finished on a 3 game losing streak, ISU 5-6 and SIU was 7-5. I agree YSU and UNI are quality teams but you still have to perform and have to be playing well at the end of the season. IMO only YSU really had any legit complaint.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Jesus Christ dude. Can't you see that we already have at least 10 MVFC whining threads?

There's plenty of places to go put the MVFC groupthink in. MVFC fans have definitely taken over the top slot in this category.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Jesus Christ dude. Can't you see that we already have at least 10 MVFC whining threads?

There's plenty of places to go put the MVFC groupthink in. MVFC fans have definitely taken over the top slot in this category.


This here. Good post ursus.

Valley fans...Quit bitching and win games next year.

E-mail your AD and tell them to quit scheduling 1 or 2 FBS games and start with FCS teams. Then win the frickin games.

Can SIU-UNI-YSU beat some teams in the playoffs? You bet they can but they didn't step up during the season and win the ones they needed to.

YSU needed to beat 1 team in their last 3......nope!
UNI needed to win one of their OT games......nope!
SIU should have beat EIU before it went into OT........nope!

[Go...gate]

My Oh My

People whining about being left out or poor seed need to stop and remember one thing.....If you had won the games you had scheduled there would be nothing to whine about.
WIN YOUR GAMES... ALL OF THEM. Don't leave it up to some committee to decide your fate.
Those teams that schedule cupcakes thinking that's the way to pad a record hoping to get to the playoffs..come on..that is selling your team short. If your team is only good enough to beat cupcakes, do they really deserve to play in December ? If your team is good enough to beat top tier teams, prove it..schedule those games..win those games and I bet you won't be whining come playoff time.


Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

I totally agree with this.

[SIUSalukiFan]

SIU should have beat EIU before it went into OT........nope!

Would you believe in the Eastern Illinois game we had an offensive lineman who got his thumb stuck in a defender's facemask and that hurt our comeback chances?

Amazingly, the same thing happened to Montana against Eastern Washington. xrotatehx

[Grizalltheway]

This here. Good post ursus.

Valley fans...Quit bitching and win games next year.

E-mail your AD and tell them to quit scheduling 1 or 2 FBS games and start with FCS teams. Then win the frickin games.

Can SIU-UNI-YSU beat some teams in the playoffs? You bet they can but they didn't step up during the season and win the ones they needed to.

YSU needed to beat 1 team in their last 3......nope!
UNI needed to win one of their OT games......nope!
SIU should have beat EIU before it went into OT........nope!

xbowxxbowx

[JayJ79]

Easier question, what did Youngstown actually accomplish on the field that merited inclusion and should have outweighed the collapse at the end? I see 7 wins over mediocre to poor OOC teams and four wins over MVFC teams with losing records. That leaves a late-September one-point win over Southern Illinois. Is that the argument for inclusion?

how did they manage to win 7 games against OOC teams?

[JayJ79]

There is no conspiracy involved. Five loss teams, especially those with five conference losses simpy don't get into the playoffs and they won't in the years to come barring extraordinary circumstances.

I don't understand why conference wins are considered of more value than non-conference wins when it comes to at-large consideration.

Perhaps they should add a "rule" that states that teams with 5 losses may be at risk of not being selected, similar to the "rule" about 7 (now 6) division I wins.

[penguinpower]

This here. Good post ursus.

Valley fans...Quit bitching and win games next year.

E-mail your AD and tell them to quit scheduling 1 or 2 FBS games and start with FCS teams. Then win the frickin games.

Can SIU-UNI-YSU beat some teams in the playoffs? You bet they can but they didn't step up during the season and win the ones they needed to.

YSU needed to beat 1 team in their last 3......nope!
UNI needed to win one of their OT games......nope!
SIU should have beat EIU before it went into OT........nope!

Why does YSU have to win another game? They have more D1 wins than other teams that were taken.

Why did SHSU get in when UNI had better wins and also qualified with 7 wins?


It is not about winnin one more game. The timing of your losses is subjective. The record is all that should count.

[Grizzlies82]

Why does YSU have to win another game? They have more D1 wins than other teams that were taken.
Why did SHSU get in when UNI had better wins and also qualified with 7 wins?
It is not about winnin one more game. The timing of your losses is subjective. The record is all that should count.

Not picking a fight just offering my two bits;
Momentum does matter. So a 4 loss YSU was punished for not only losing their final three games, but being blown out at home in their finale.
Overall records matter. So UNI was punished for losing five. One less loss and I can virtually guarantee they would have been in due to their quality wins.
Past success matters. I too was surprised Sam Houston got in, yet suspect it was due to their win over E. WA, and having won their way into the finals two years running.
Making a splash helps. Both So. Utah & New Hampshire greatly benefited from beating top ten teams in the last two weeks of the season. The committee favors "hot" teams and those big wins helped tilt the balance among the bubble teams to get these two in. I may be completely wrong but I believe these are the likely answers to your questions.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Not picking a fight just offering my two bits;
Momentum does matter. So a 4 loss YSU was punished for not only losing their final three games, but being blown out at home in their finale.
Overall records matter. So UNI was punished for losing five. One less loss and I can virtually guarantee they would have been in due to their quality wins.
Past success matters. I too was surprised Sam Houston got in, yet suspect it was due to their win over E. WA, and having won their way into the finals two years running.
Making a splash helps. Both So. Utah & New Hampshire greatly benefited from beating top ten teams in the last two weeks of the season. The committee favors "hot" teams and those big wins helped tilt the balance among the bubble teams to get these two in. I may be completely wrong but I believe these are the likely answers to your questions.

I've laid it out several times that you need to do the greatest number of those things possible otherwise you buy less tickets to the lottery you find yourself in. Doesn't matter they keep trying pick one or the other to say why it is a conspiracy against them. In short, better to just sit back and laugh at this point.

[Grizzlies82]

I've laid it out several times that you need to do the greatest number of those things possible otherwise you buy less tickets to the lottery you find yourself in. Doesn't matter they keep trying pick one or the other to say why it is a conspiracy against them. In short, better to just sit back and laugh at this point.

Agreed.

[Mountaineer]

This here. Good post ursus.

Valley fans...Quit bitching and win games next year.

E-mail your AD and tell them to quit scheduling 1 or 2 FBS games and start with FCS teams. Then win the frickin games.

Can SIU-UNI-YSU beat some teams in the playoffs? You bet they can but they didn't step up during the season and win the ones they needed to.

YSU needed to beat 1 team in their last 3......nope!
UNI needed to win one of their OT games......nope!
SIU should have beat EIU before it went into OT........nope!

http://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Youre-God-Damn-Right-Walt-In-Breaking-Bad-Reaction-Gif.gif

[Thumper76]

I only made it to page 9 before i couldnt read any more. This whole thing just reeks like people whining about a blown call at the end of a game that costs one team the win that outplayed the other team. However, the team that lost out gained and manhandled the other team, but had three turnovers at the goal line. Does that team deserve to win even though they outplayed the other team and pissed it down their leg? If you ask me, then no. And don't bitch about the refs. There were a lot of other opportunities to win the game that you blew. Same here. Do I think the Valley was better and has teams left out who would boatrace a bunch of other at large teams? Yup. But they screwed themselves out of the chance when they had the opportunities. When you leave your fate up to others then you cant complain about their decisions, since you gave them that power. Let it go.

Sent from my SCH-S738C using Tapatalk

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Why does YSU have to win another game? They have more D1 wins than other teams that were taken.

Why did SHSU get in when UNI had better wins and also qualified with 7 wins?


It is not about winnin one more game. The timing of your losses is subjective. The record is all that should count.


Really?



Really???


YSU was 8-1 and poised to take over the lead in the conference. Going and not taking care of business at UNI was mistake #1. Then they had the #1 team in FCS come into your house on Jim Tressel Day and commenced to get your butt kicked....another opportunity missed. Then when everything was on the line with SDSU coming in the Guins laid another egg.

To me that is 3 chances to get that last win and YSU crapped their pants. Why let the committee try to hash it out with other 8-4 and 9-3 teams.

Now can YSU beat some of the teams that are in the field? No doubt in my mind they could probably beat 2/3 of the teams in the field right now. But when they were in position to control their own 'destiny' they didn't rise to the challenge.

Ya, it sucks the Valley only has 2 team in the field, more should be represented but 3 teams had the opportunity to prove it on the field and they didn't get it done.

My 2$

[JayJ79]

so basically league scheduling (which the team has no control over) kept YSU from the playoffs.
Because they played their three toughest games at the end of the season, and ended up with three losses.
If they had had those games (and lost those same three), but spread out more, or even if they had had lost those same three games in a row, but then finished with a couple wins, they would probably be in the playoffs.

[Catbooster]

Why does YSU have to win another game? They have more D1 wins than other teams that were taken.

Why did SHSU get in when UNI had better wins and also qualified with 7 wins?


It is not about winnin one more game. The timing of your losses is subjective. The record is all that should count.
Seriously? I guess now you're arguing that Charleston Southern and Mercer should have been selected and you'd be happy? I'm not sure you believe half of what you're saying - you just want to complain and play the victim. You've tried to make your point. Most of us still don't agree with you. Let it go.

It's a subjective process. I don't think there's a way of avoiding that without creating other problems. It makes sense that momentum is important. If you're closing the season with a bunch of losses, maybe injuries have decimated your team and you're not as strong as earlier in the season and therefore not a strong contender for the playoffs. If you're closing strong, maybe you've gotten some key players back from injury, or the line is gelling, or the quarterback is finally making his reads, etc. I think they should use how you finish the season as one of the things they look at.

[Cleets]

I remember a month ago... when I said: Villanova and JMU should be ranked #30 & #31
You'da think I said something crazy like Fire Mickey Mathews or sumthin'

and look where they wound up at seasons end (even lower than I said)

I also said the MSU Bobcats were WAY over rated at #3 or 4 or whatever insane location they were back then

I'm a god damned prognosticating magician!!!

[ursus arctos horribilis]

so basically league scheduling (which the team has no control over) kept YSU from the playoffs.
Because they played their three toughest games at the end of the season, and ended up with three losses.
If they had had those games (and lost those same three), but spread out more, or even if they had had lost those same three games in a row, but then finished with a couple wins, they would probably be in the playoffs.

They would have definitely had a better chance if you ask me. If a a team loses say three (even in a row) and then are able to come back if they finish strong and if they had at least an equal footing with the win total, power conferencee etc. in this season I think they'd get the nod.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I remember a month ago... when I said: Villanova and JMU should be ranked #30 & #31
You'da think I said something crazy like Fire Mickey Mathews or sumthin'

and look where they wound up at seasons end (even lower than I said)

I also said the MSU Bobcats were WAY over rated at #3 or 4 or whatever insane location they were back then

I'm a god damned prognosticating magician!!!

That's the thing about you. You say everything so you have your bases covered and then only remember what was correct.

I'd have ot look for sure but I don't think MSU ever cracked more than 10 or so after they dropped the SFA game and I also didn't have UM anything above #14 or so until the last couple weeks.

[344Johnson]

Really?



Really???


YSU was 8-1 and poised to take over the lead in the conference. Going and not taking care of business at UNI was mistake #1. Then they had the #1 team in FCS come into your house on Jim Tressel Day and commenced to get your butt kicked....another opportunity missed. Then when everything was on the line with SDSU coming in the Guins laid another egg.

To me that is 3 chances to get that last win and YSU crapped their pants. Why let the committee try to hash it out with other 8-4 and 9-3 teams.

Now can YSU beat some of the teams that are in the field? No doubt in my mind they could probably beat 2/3 of the teams in the field right now. But when they were in position to control their own 'destiny' they didn't rise to the challenge.

Ya, it sucks the Valley only has 2 team in the field, more should be represented but 3 teams had the opportunity to prove it on the field and they didn't get it done.

My 2$


Exactly...gotta win. That said, YSU's schedule was not conducive to getting into the playoffs. Its too bad, so sad for the Valley this year. Gotta keep winning and hope for the best.

[Grizzlies82]

I remember a month ago... when I said: Villanova and JMU should be ranked #30 & #31
You'da think I said something crazy like Fire Mickey Mathews or sumthin' and look where they wound up at seasons end (even lower than I said). I also said the MSU Bobcats were WAY over rated at #3 or 4 or whatever insane location they were back then

I'm a god damned prognosticating magician!!!

Either that, or some damned voodoo devil who hexes unsuspecting teams? xchinscratchx

[skinny_uncle]

Come on....you can't spell bracket without Bearkat so they had to be in.

You can't spell UNInvited without UNI, either.

[penguinpower]

2 things-#1 I am not whining about YSU not making the playoffs.
#2 the playoff criteria is 7 divison 1 wins, then won lost record of your opponents, then won lost record of your conference against other conferences. It has been that way for years. Several years ago the committee decided to add wiining at the end of the season on the list, but they are inconsistent in the application of this measure. SHSU did not deserve an at large over 3 other Valley teams. You cannot justify this. Same thing goes for the directional utah school. The rules are arbitrary. This year they decided to add "winning league games" and "performance against FBS competition"to the at large teams. The selection process is not consistent. I personally didn't think YSU deserved to get in, but after looking at the field and resumes of other teams that did get in, I have changed my mind. UNI deserved to be in over YSU if you look at the criteria. They beat an FBS team, achieved 7 D1 wins, and had no blowout losses. They took SHSU over UNI after using the criteria? That is politics and it is wrong.

[Houndawg]

2 things-#1 I am not whining about YSU not making the playoffs.
#2 the playoff criteria is 7 divison 1 wins, then won lost record of your opponents, then won lost record of your conference against other conferences. It has been that way for years. Several years ago the committee decided to add wiining at the end of the season on the list, but they are inconsistent in the application of this measure. SHSU did not deserve an at large over 3 other Valley teams. You cannot justify this. Same thing goes for the directional utah school. The rules are arbitrary. This year they decided to add "winning league games" and "performance against FBS competition"to the at large teams. The selection process is not consistent. I personally didn't think YSU deserved to get in, but after looking at the field and resumes of other teams that did get in, I have changed my mind. UNI deserved to be in over YSU if you look at the criteria. They beat an FBS team, achieved 7 D1 wins, and had no blowout losses. They took SHSU over UNI after using the criteria? That is politics and it is wrong.

xeekx

Wait a minute, buddy. Are you suggesting that politics plays a part in selecting the playoff field?

[TypicalTribe]

That is politics and it is wrong.

There are no politics involved. First and foremost, the committee was not going to take teams with 5 losses unless they had no other options. That eliminates UNI and SIU. Next, YSU gave them every reason to be left out by losing the final 3 and collapsing at home in the last game. No politics necessary. The MVFC was a good enough league to have 3, 4 or even 5 teams in the field this year and if a few close games broke the other way, they would have, but sometimes it just doesn't happen.

[SoupCity85]

Not picking a fight just offering my two bits;
Momentum does matter. So a 4 loss YSU was punished for not only losing their final three games, but being blown out at home in their finale.
Overall records matter. So UNI was punished for losing five. One less loss and I can virtually guarantee they would have been in due to their quality wins.
Past success matters. I too was surprised Sam Houston got in, yet suspect it was due to their win over E. WA, and having won their way into the finals two years running.
Making a splash helps. Both So. Utah & New Hampshire greatly benefited from beating top ten teams in the last two weeks of the season. The committee favors "hot" teams and those big wins helped tilt the balance among the bubble teams to get these two in. I may be completely wrong but I believe these are the likely answers to your questions.

As far as YSU goes, that may be the statement of this entire thread. I don't believe that it had much to do about losing 3 straight (hell, those 3 teams are the very best in the MVFC), its the fact that the last 2 were blowouts. If YSU keeps those games close, I believe they're in. And I also believe that the many YSU fans (me included) who felt YSU didn't deserve to be in.....change their minds.

[Wallace]

I really don't know why any of you think I care... you won't be convincing me of anything with it.Understood


The term "Woofed" comes from 2002 and a "deserving" Wofford team that got left out...Yes, "Wofforded" became "Woofed" meaning "dogged", disrespected and not chosen even though the GPI said they were worthy.


Jesus Christ dude. Can't you see that we already have at least 10 MVFC whining threads? There's plenty of places to go put the MVFC groupthink in. MVFC fans have definitely taken over the top slot in this category.Said by the board admin in an unbiased way? Is all anyone can do is respond to the admin with "yes sir"? My oh my let the people give their opinions without using religious epithets or namecalling.

Three MVFC teams were woofed this year, the most ever in history from any league. Acknowledge that and let the discussions play out. Just my suggestion.

[Houndawg]

Understood

Yes, "Wofforded" became "Woofed" meaning "dogged", disrespected and not chosen even though the GPI said they were worthy.

Said by the board admin in an unbiased way? Is all anyone can do is respond to the admin with "yes sir"? My oh my let the people give their opinions without using religious epithets or namecalling.

Three MVFC teams were woofed this year, the most ever in history from any league. Acknowledge that and let the discussions play out. Just my suggestion.

A rare triple woofing...

[maine612]

Is it kickoff time yet?

[Bisonoline]

A rare triple woofing...

Yes------but if they would have taken care of business they wouldnt have been in that position. So they really dont have any reason to bitch that they werent chosen BUT they sure can bitch about some of the teams that WERE chosen.

[Green26]

Yes------but if they would have taken care of business they wouldnt have been in that position. So they really dont have any reason to bitch that they werent chosen BUT they sure can bitch about some of the teams that WERE chosen.

I don't understand. If you believe they can complain about some of the teams that were chosen, why can't they complain about not be selected. Isn't that the point?

Saying they didn't take care of business is another subject. Of course, any team that wins more games puts itself in better position to be selected. Nobody disputes that. However, if weaker teams are selected, and they were, the MV teams left out have every right to complain.

[Wallace]

A rare triple woofing...

a tri-fooked up as it were

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Understood

Yes, "Wofforded" became "Woofed" meaning "dogged", disrespected and not chosen even though the GPI said they were worthy.

Said by the board admin in an unbiased way? Is all anyone can do is respond to the admin with "yes sir"? My oh my let the people give their opinions without using religious epithets or namecalling.

Three MVFC teams were woofed this year, the most ever in history from any league. Acknowledge that and let the discussions play out. Just my suggestion.

Yes, the board admin now acts like he always has. He can take criticism, be called any variety of things anyone else can etc. and is at the same level of the other posters on this board. I don't put myself above them as some sort of sacred cow like you did.

If you had looked at the post titles in that last one you quoted you might notice a different thread title. That means it does not have anything to do with the poster stating his opinion. It had everything to do with the fact that there were a half dozen other threads saying the exact same thing and he chose to start another instead of putting in this one...which I did shortly after that.

In the first one you did your old tactics of eliminating some of the sentence to try and turn the phrase into something that fits you which is to be expected I guess.

I know it really eats at you Ralph that you no longer own this place but please try and control yourself and get over it. I wouldn't keep trying to poison this well because I can easily choose not to help you in the future. I specifically avoid criticizing you and your things you promote but you keep trying to get digs in here for some reason in spite of my staying away from your stuff.

http://www.searchquotes.com/sof/images/picture_quotes/54588_20130226_163941_387500_426648824083497_23070 9214_n.jpg

[Wallace]

...

pfft, same old crap... you help me, lol -- who are you, use your real name, see?

[BisonTru]

I don't understand. If you believe they can complain about some of the teams that were chosen, why can't they complain about not be selected. Isn't that the point?

Saying they didn't take care of business is another subject. Of course, any team that wins more games puts itself in better position to be selected. Nobody disputes that. However, if weaker teams are selected, and they were, the MV teams left out have every right to complain.

Completely agree. YSU, UNI, SIU should have done more, but the argument is why are those teams being left out and teams like TSU, JSU, and SCSU are getting in. Hell, everybody but NDSU and EIU should have done more.

[Houndawg]

Yes------but if they would have taken care of business they wouldnt have been in that position. So they really dont have any reason to bitch that they werent chosen BUT they sure can bitch about some of the teams that WERE chosen.

This. It isn't aggravated felony woofing, this is more like woofed on a technicality. Replace any three teams from seeds 2-24 with them and the result is a stronger bracket in the large majority of cases.

[Bisonoline]

I don't understand. If you believe they can complain about some of the teams that were chosen, why can't they complain about not be selected. Isn't that the point?

Saying they didn't take care of business is another subject. Of course, any team that wins more games puts itself in better position to be selected. Nobody disputes that. However, if weaker teams are selected, and they were, the MV teams left out have every right to complain.

Of course you dont understand it.

[Bisonoline]

Completely agree. YSU, UNI, SIU should have done more, but the argument is why are those teams being left out and teams like TSU, JSU, and SCSU are getting in. Hell, everybody but NDSU and EIU should have done more.

I am not even talking about the complete body of work. There were key games that they needed to win and they didnt coming down the home stretch that would have put them in the playoffs. We are talking one game.

[SIUSalukiFan]

I am not even talking about the complete body of work. There were key games that they needed to win and they didnt coming down the home stretch that would have put them in the playoffs. We are talking one game.

Here's the rub, though.

Youngstown State was penalized for getting blown out by you guys at home in its next-to-last game but Jacksonville State took a 54-17 home ass-whipping against Eastern Illinois in the same situation and didn't see a repercussion. What was JSU's key game? Beating 3-8 SE Missouri at home to close the season?

[Bisonoline]

Here's the rub, though.

Youngstown State was penalized for getting blown out by you guys at home in its next-to-last game but Jacksonville State took a 54-17 home ass-whipping against Eastern Illinois in the same situation and didn't see a repercussion. What was JSU's key game? Beating 3-8 SE Missouri at home to close the season?

Sorry I didnt clarify. My post was in reference to YSU and UNI.

[TennBison]

Here's the rub, though.

Youngstown State was penalized for getting blown out by you guys at home in its next-to-last game but Jacksonville State took a 54-17 home ass-whipping against Eastern Illinois in the same situation and didn't see a repercussion. What was JSU's key game? Beating 3-8 SE Missouri at home to close the season?
YSU was penalized more for the loss to SDSU than they were in losing to NDSU. Remember UNI was ranked 4th when they played NDSU and stayed 4th after the loss. SDSU shut them out, if the game had been closer maybe YSU would have made it, but the goose egg in my mind was the dagger.

[Daved]

I would have to agree with the group that has the view about winning your games. All YSU needed was a 9th win and they would have been in, no questions asked. And then to add some salt to the wound....you get ABSOLUTELY blown out of your last 2??? We all thought if they could keep the NSDU/SDSU games close, well maybe YSU had a better shot. They didn't get it done, thus they don't deserve to be in. Not a single person on here should comment about YSU not getting in, none of the fans are. As for some teams that got in and maybe didn't deserve it? Well, the last 4 out should have won that 1 more game they needed.Totally agree!--Hess himself said that if they lost to SDSU they didn't deserve to be in--After his injury in the UNI game YSU's chances of winning any remaining games was realistically nonexistant.

[Redbird Ray]

Don't give me any crap about how finishing strong matters. In 2011, ISU won 5 of 6 with their only loss coming to a top 5 ranked team in OT and was left out. The fact is, the MVFC has horse**** leadership at the top, and its ability to lobby for bids is a gd joke. There's no reason a league that is rated higher than a handful of FBS divisions should have the same playoff representation as the MEAC and Patriot.

[underdawg]

Don't give me any crap about how finishing strong matters. In 2011, ISU won 5 of 6 with their only loss coming to a top 5 ranked team in OT and was left out. The fact is, the MVFC has horse**** leadership at the top, and its ability to lobby for bids is a gd joke. There's no reason a league that is rated higher than a handful of FBS divisions should have the same playoff representation as the MEAC and Patriot.

What he said

[Green26]

Don't give me any crap about how finishing strong matters. In 2011, ISU won 5 of 6 with their only loss coming to a top 5 ranked team in OT and was left out. The fact is, the MVFC has horse**** leadership at the top, and its ability to lobby for bids is a gd joke. There's no reason a league that is rated higher than a handful of FBS divisions should have the same playoff representation as the MEAC and Patriot.

And 3 from the Ohio Valley. If the playoff teams from these 3 conferences, with the exception of East Ill, played in the MV, CAA or the Big Sky, none of them would be playoff teams this year.

[Bisonoline]

Don't give me any crap about how finishing strong matters. In 2011, ISU won 5 of 6 with their only loss coming to a top 5 ranked team in OT and was left out. The fact is, the MVFC has horse**** leadership at the top, and its ability to lobby for bids is a gd joke. There's no reason a league that is rated higher than a handful of FBS divisions should have the same playoff representation as the MEAC and Patriot.

You have made an excellent point.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

After watching these first round games I'm even less convinced that expanding the playoffs was a good idea. Not a single game so far has been decided by single digits. Granted, Fordham-SHU was a very even game....

It's like watching the first round of conference basketball tournaments....

[Herder]

However, getting these other conferences into the playoff will lift them up, make them more compeitive down the road. Getting more conferences into the playoff is a good thing in general.

[clenz]

However, getting these other conferences into the playoff will lift them up, make them more compeitive down the road. Getting more conferences into the playoff is a good thing in general.

Will it make them more competitive?

Is the MEAC more competitive?

I guess going from 30 point losses to 20 is an improvement

Sent from my S4 using Tapatalk

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Will it make them more competitive?

Is the MEAC more competitive?

I guess going from 30 point losses to 20 is an improvement

Sent from my S4 using Tapatalk

When a conference goes 14 years without a win there's a fundamental problem imo. There's very few, if any, college hoops leagues that have gone that long without a win in March Madness. I know the MEAC has won at least two (Hampton/Norfolk State) games in the tournament since 1999.

[centennial]

After watching these first round games I'm even less convinced that expanding the playoffs was a good idea. Not a single game so far has been decided by single digits. Granted, Fordham-SHU was a very even game....

It's like watching the first round of conference basketball tournaments....
Less convinced because the teams that should've been in there aren't.
No offense to these teams, replace the 4 worst teams with UNI, YSU, W&M and SIU or Nova. Keep the automatic qualifiers, now these games don't look as bad.

[youwouldno]

Will it make them more competitive?

Is the MEAC more competitive?

I guess going from 30 point losses to 20 is an improvement

Sent from my S4 using Tapatalk

Imagine how bad they would be if not for the autobid.

Maybe a point of comparison would be the non-participating SWAC, which was 14th out of 14 conferences this year, behind the Pioneer League that had 4 of the 5 worst teams in all of FCS.

[Twentysix]

Less convinced because the teams that should've been in there aren't.
No offense to these teams, replace the 4 worst teams with UNI, YSU, W&M and SIU or Nova. Keep the automatic qualifiers, now these games don't look as bad.

Agreed, UNI's band would have beaten alot of these teams.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Less convinced because the teams that should've been in there aren't.
No offense to these teams, replace the 4 worst teams with UNI, YSU, W&M and SIU or Nova. Keep the automatic qualifiers, now these games don't look as bad.

I don't believe any of those teams would have really fared any better. Of all of those, maybe SIU because of their schedule and toughness. YSU was garbage down the stretch. W&M lost to an average at best Richmond team to end the year. Villanova had 6 D1 wins...meh....

This year, like most years, is about 8-10 teams. The rest is generally just fluff. We just have more fluff now....

[Twentysix]

I don't believe any of those teams would have really fared any better. Of all of those, maybe SIU because of their schedule and toughness. YSU was garbage down the stretch. W&M lost to an average at best Richmond team to end the year. Villanova had 6 D1 wins...meh....

This year, like most years, is about 8-10 teams. The rest is generally just fluff. We just have more fluff now....

Big Fluff? :D

[clenz]

I don't believe any of those teams would have really fared any better. Of all of those, maybe SIU because of their schedule and toughness. YSU was garbage down the stretch. W&M lost to an average at best Richmond team to end the year. Villanova had 6 D1 wins...meh....

This year, like most years, is about 8-10 teams. The rest is generally just fluff. We just have more fluff now....
Why not say how you think UNI would have done?

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Why not say how you think UNI would have done?

I doubt they would have fared any better either....

Of all those i think SIU deserved a shot. Played a very difficult schedule imo and showed the ability to overcome a major injury, the loss of their QB.

[kdinva]

It is what it is.........Sam Houston a romp over a good SUU squad.......they proved they belong in 2013. Lafayette won the Patriot outright by the rules set for the 2013 season.

[DSUrocks07]

So the consensus here is that the MEAC, Patriot and OVC should take their balls and go home. Because SIU losing to Furman at home 30-20 would be a better game. UNI beating Butler 31-0 would have been a better game.

Sent from my HTC One V using Tapatalk

[Grizzlies82]

So the consensus here is that the MEAC, Patriot and OVC should take their balls and go home. Because SIU losing to Furman at home 30-20 would be a better game. UNI beating Butler 31-0 would have been a better game.

While those are likely outcomes I think there is a different moral here.
Until they demonstrate in playoff games that they're players, some of those conferences should never get a second bid above their auto.

[Engineer86]

While those are likely outcomes I think there is a different moral here.
Until they demonstrate in playoff games that they're players, some of those conferences should never get a second bid above their auto.

I am sure you are not lumping the PL in the comment about "demonstrate in playoff games" with the MEAC and OVC.

[SIUSalukiFan]

There's no need to discuss any further who didn't get into the field.

Many of us knew South Carolina State was going to get smoked, and few expected a Pioneer League team to do anything.

I'm just glad Tennessee State and Jacksonville State got advantageous first-round draws and were able to deliver the first OVC playoff victories in more than a decade.

[Houndawg]

As long as you keep losing to the Missouri State's of the world, doesn't matter what conference you are in.


You may want to avoid scheduling Missouri State. They thumped the Jacks worse than the Jacks thumped you.


The argument is over, the case is proven. The BSC is weak and plays a soft schedule.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

You may want to avoid scheduling Missouri State. They thumped the Jacks worse than the Jacks thumped you.


The argument is over, the case is proven. The BSC is weak and plays a soft schedule.

Exactly

Every year there is one team worth a damn in the BSC this year is an exception because there are no good teams and its total BS the BSC got 4 teams in the playoffs. Weak every year and these idiots still try to talk it up like its a powerhouse.

[Green26]

Big Fluff? :D


SHS and SDS are good teams. Tough first round draws, especially for SU playing at SHS. SU probably wasn't a strong team, but they would have beaten all of the weaker teams in the first round. NAU was a better team, but not necessarily a strong team. NAU had a nice season, though, even tho they didn't play EWU or PSU. I believe Montana is a stronger team, but we'll see.

[Red & Black]

You may want to avoid scheduling Missouri State. They thumped the Jacks worse than the Jacks thumped you.


The argument is over, the case is proven. The BSC is weak and plays a soft schedule.

Is that why the Big Sky has had a semi-finalist in each of the past 4 years?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

[Twentysix]

Is that why the Big Sky has had a semi-finalist in each of the past 4 years?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

When you throw enough **** at the wall some of it is bound to stick, lol. Give the BSC 1 bid and none make it to the Semi's http://www.anygivensaturday.com/images/smilies/tongue2.png.

[penguinpower]

SDSU smashed their Little Sky opponent. Smashed them. It was like a college team playing a high school team. The MVFC got 2 teams in. The playoff committee is an F'ing joke.

[Twentysix]

SDSU smashed their Little Sky opponent. Smashed them. It was like a college team playing a high school team. The MVFC got 2 teams in. The playoff committee is an F'ing joke.

I am so glad I don't have to be as pissed off as YSU fans. I get to just prod the Big Fluff for fun, you seem genuinely mad.

[Houndawg]

I am so glad I don't have to be as pissed off as YSU fans. I get to just prod the Big Fluff for fun, you seem genuinely mad.

I'm not a doctor but I think we're dealing with the agony of tertiary butthurt compounded by an advanced case of sphincter-lock.....

[DSUrocks07]

the past

xcoffeex

[ysubigred]

Totally agree!--Hess himself said that if they lost to SDSU they didn't deserve to be in--After his injury in the UNI game YSU's chances of winning any remaining games was realistically nonexistant.

xblehxThis is total **********!! I don't get the love affair with Ole'#12? His family must have been big donors to the university. In his career I challenge you to dig up the stats of how his performance dropped off against teams that were above .500 DIV 1 (SCHOLARSHIP). This coaching staff painted their self into a corner believing that Hess was the best QB and not preparing for the future. These stupid MF'r even in a blow out game had #12 still in the game to help him achieve all the YSU QB records xsmhx One game against Pitt was a good game for him and YSU since the Wolford era began. Everybody loves to blame the defense and I can't argue that they don't suck... BUT!! remember Wolford, Montgomery and the rest of the high paid/profile coaches at YSU put together the best and most dangerous offense ever seen. With all the offensive talent recruited and the great offensive minds at YSU we should just out score everybody right? LOL!! xthumbsupx Keep drinking the YSU kool aid of the uninformed xconfusedx

[Daved]

SDSU smashed their Little Sky opponent. Smashed them. It was like a college team playing a high school team. The MVFC got 2 teams in. The playoff committee is an F'ing joke.I agree that the MVFC should've got more than 2 teams in but YSU is better off taking the extra time to recruit and upgrade their defense--with a healthy Hess they had some chance in the playoffs but with no experienced backup chances are they wouldn't go far.Would be great to see a NDSU-SDSU rematch in the finals.

[ysubigred]

SDSU smashed their Little Sky opponent. Smashed them. It was like a college team playing a high school team. The MVFC got 2 teams in. The playoff committee is an F'ing joke.

I would not call that a smashing? NAU SHOT THEIR SELF IN THE FOOT way to many times and in the end SDSU was physically better. I'll go out on a limb and say even with a 100% healthy Hess NAU would have torched YSU. YSU O would not have put up 21 on NAU and the defense would have buckled form it.

[Houndawg]

I would not call that a smashing? NAU SHOT THEIR SELF IN THE FOOT way to many times and in the end SDSU was physically better. I'll go out on a limb and say even with a 100% healthy Hess NAU would have torched YSU. YSU O would not have put up 21 on NAU and the defense would have buckled form it.


What? NAU would struggle to finish above seventh place in the MVC. xcoffeex

[ysubigred]

What? NAU would struggle to finish above seventh place in the MVC. xcoffeex

We'll never know that answer about 7th place in the MVFC but I believe NAU would have beat YSU yesterday. I've said this before and I'll put it on here. The MVFC has the best team and two decent teams this year. Sadly one of the decent teams went on a 5 game skid with a bunch of starters hurt. The rest of the MVFC was ummm, shiitty xtwocentsx

[SIUSalukiFan]

We'll never know that answer about 7th place in the MVFC but I believe NAU would have beat YSU yesterday. I've said this before and I'll put it on here. The MVFC has the best team and two decent teams this year. Sadly one of the decent teams went on a 5 game skid with a bunch of starters hurt. The rest of the MVFC was ummm, shiitty xtwocentsx

Listen, you may be pissed at Youngstown but don't take it out on the rest of the Valley.

[DSUrocks07]

I would not call that a smashing? NAU SHOT THEIR SELF IN THE FOOT way to many times and in the end SDSU was physically better. I'll go out on a limb and say even with a 100% healthy Hess NAU would have torched YSU. YSU O would not have put up 21 on NAU and the defense would have buckled form it.

Conference homerism, you're doing it wrong xawesomex

[ysubigred]

Listen, you may be pissed at Youngstown but don't take it out on the rest of the Valley.

I hear you... I'm not pissed at anybody. I'm just calling it as I see it. Personally, I'm sick and tired of hearing about the Valley and the toughest conference etc... All the conferences are tough to their respective teams. SIU would be my 4th team in toughness at the end..

[ysubigred]

Conference homerism, you're doing it wrong xawesomex

LOL!! I'm a lot of things but not a homer... If I think the Valley/YSU is the best I'll be the 1st to say it. This year.. we ARE NOT.

[penguinpower]

I hear you... I'm not pissed at anybody. I'm just calling it as I see it. Personally, I'm sick and tired of hearing about the Valley and the toughest conference etc... All the conferences are tough to their respective teams. SIU would be my 4th team in toughness at the end..

Get a clue. I watched several FCS games yestersay and the MVFC line play is superior in the top 5 teams of the MVFC. As bad as YSU's defense is the DL is still superior to more than half the playoff field that played yesterday.

[penguinpower]

I would not call that a smashing? NAU SHOT THEIR SELF IN THE FOOT way to many times and in the end SDSU was physically better. I'll go out on a limb and say even with a 100% healthy Hess NAU would have torched YSU. YSU O would not have put up 21 on NAU and the defense would have buckled form it.

They didn't shoot themselves in the foot they were bullied by superior line play. They had 7 yards in the3rd qter and went backwards on almost every drive except the last one.

[Daved]

I would not call that a smashing? NAU SHOT THEIR SELF IN THE FOOT way to many times and in the end SDSU was physically better. I'll go out on a limb and say even with a 100% healthy Hess NAU would have torched YSU. YSU O would not have put up 21 on NAU and the defense would have buckled form it.First of all I know you can't stand Hess so I'm wasting my time arguing about him---I don't consider him as a god but since he has started every single game without our backups getting experience I don't think we would've stood a chance of winning any games in the playoffs without him.I'm not trying to glorify the man but experience can't be learned and our backups were all non-experienced.The Hess that played against ILS was unstoppable but you would never know for sure which Hess would show up till game time.I don't entirely see eye to eye with you on Hess but I certainly do on the pictures you have posted.

[ysubigred]

First of all I know you can't stand Hess so I'm wasting my time arguing about him---I don't consider him as a god but since he has started every single game without our backups getting experience I don't think we would've stood a chance of winning any games in the playoffs without him.I'm not trying to glorify the man but experience can't be learned and our backups were all non-experienced.The Hess that played against ILS was unstoppable but you would never know for sure which Hess would show up till game time.I don't entirely see eye to eye with you on Hess but I certainly do on the pictures you have posted.
That's what I could not understand.. Nothing against the kid but we wasted time not developing someone behind him.

[mmiller_34]

The Hess that played against ILS was unstoppable but you would never know for sure which Hess would show up till game time.I don't entirely see eye to eye with you on Hess but I certainly do on the pictures you have posted.

I think most SDSU fans would agree that we feel the same way about Sumner. Never know who is going to show up. He could go 4-10 for 50 yards and an interception or throw for over 300 and 4 TDs.

[ysubigred]

Get a clue. I watched several FCS games yestersay and the MVFC line play is superior in the top 5 teams of the MVFC. As bad as YSU's defense is the DL is still superior to more than half the playoff field that played yesterday.

:D I'm sorry my evaluations are clueless. I forgot that with all your playing experience and coaching time I would look clueless to your evaluations. I'll step aside and let you bring back the creditability of the YSU fan base with your spot on homerless evaluations. Carry on Seabee xsalutex


P.S. I can't believe that I'm here putting my two cents into something I have no idea about anyways... This is my last post for this year on the football board. I don't have a dog in the fight and here's to the best team winning it all in Frisco xthumbsupx Daved, I'll get busy back in the lounge where I'm appreciated xrolleyesx

[ysubigred]

I think most SDSU fans would agree that we feel the same way about Sumner. Never know who is going to show up. He could go 4-10 for 50 yards and an interception or throw for over 300 and 4 TDs.

I like Sumner the kid is a winner. In the big games he seems to step up to the plate xthumbsupx.

[penguinpower]

:D I'm sorry my evaluations are clueless. I forgot that with all your playing experience and coaching time I would look clueless to your evaluations. I'll step aside and let you bring back the creditability of the YSU fan base with your spot on homerless evaluations. Carry on Seabee xsalutex


P.S. I can't believe that I'm here putting my two cents into something I have no idea about anyways... This is my last post for this year on the football board. I don't have a dog in the fight and here's to the best team winning it all in Frisco xthumbsupx Daved, I'll get busy back in the lounge where I'm appreciated xrolleyesx

YSU is not the number 1 team but they are in the top 16. That is what you don't get. With all of your playing experience I would expect that you could see that, but obviously your head is too hard or you are blind.

[ysubigred]

YSU is not the number 1 team but they are in the top 16. That is what you don't get. With all of your playing experience I would expect that you could see that, but obviously your head is too hard or you are blind.

I'll agree to disagree here.. YSU IS NOT top 16 material in my opinion. I've removed my rose colored glasses years ago and use my playing experience to make these evaluations. It breaks my heart to say what I feel is honest about YSU but I've seen nothing yet in the Wolford era that has me believing YSU is heading in the right direction. I'm seeing new big paydays, droves of fans disappearing etc.. Again, YSU roared out to 8-1 against a silly front loaded schedule and blew up when the competition stiffened.

[SIUSalukiFan]

I'll agree to disagree here.. YSU IS NOT top 16 material in my opinion. I've removed my rose colored glasses years ago and use my playing experience to make these evaluations. It breaks my heart to say what I feel is honest about YSU but I've seen nothing yet in the Wolford era that has me believing YSU is heading in the right direction. I'm seeing new big paydays, droves of fans disappearing etc.. Again, YSU roared out to 8-1 against a silly front loaded schedule and blew up when the competition stiffened.

Would you have felt differently had YSU had its last three games spread through out the season and the Penguins had beaten Western Illinois on the last Saturday to finish 8-4?

[Houndawg]

WIU will be next years surprise contender. Heard it here first.

[penguinpower]

I'll agree to disagree here.. YSU IS NOT top 16 material in my opinion. I've removed my rose colored glasses years ago and use my playing experience to make these evaluations. It breaks my heart to say what I feel is honest about YSU but I've seen nothing yet in the Wolford era that has me believing YSU is heading in the right direction. I'm seeing new big paydays, droves of fans disappearing etc.. Again, YSU roared out to 8-1 against a silly front loaded schedule and blew up when the competition stiffened.

Look-Do I want the team to look and play like the 1990's teams? Yes. Is our current coach building a team that looks like that? No. We are being buit like Kansas State-1 good team is fielded every 4-5 years, all other years they are middle of the pack. The is no focus on defense, the offense is the kind that gets shut down by super defensive lines and Lb's. Wolford is not going to build a YSU team that looks anything like NDSU or SDSU. Do I like it? No-I despise it. Strollo hired him. All I'm saying is that this year, we are in the top 16. Next year we are far from it. I understand that the schedule was front loaded with weak teams-thank the athletic dept for that. Wolford does not control it. We had a good win at SIU and showed we can play with a banged up UNI team, but just because the team does not look like you want it to look doesn't mean that it isn't in the top 16. We were clearly better than other teams and we would have beaten other teams that were picked ahead of us.

[katstrapper]

For all the continued SHSU haters... 531 total yds, 300+yards rushing and 51 points scored against a SUU defense that only gave up 19 ppg all year and barely 100yds rushing per game... NUFF SAID!!!!!!

HATERS GONNA HATE!!

[Grizalltheway]

For all the continued SHSU haters... 531 total yds, 300+yards rushing and 51 points scored against a SUU defense that only gave up 19 ppg all year and barely 100yds rushing per game... NUFF SAID!!!!!!

HATERS GONNA HATE!!

I really hope you realize the irony of having that line in your signature.

[ysubigred]

Would you have felt differently had YSU had its last three games spread through out the season and the Penguins had beaten Western Illinois on the last Saturday to finish 8-4?

xchinscratchx No.. You've got to beat the best to be the best. In your scenario YSU would still be left out of the playoff's. At least I could not claim a melt down with the 3 game in a row loss. xsmugx

[ysubigred]

Look-Do I want the team to look and play like the 1990's teams? Yes. Is our current coach building a team that looks like that? No. We are being buit like Kansas State-1 good team is fielded every 4-5 years, all other years they are middle of the pack. The is no focus on defense, the offense is the kind that gets shut down by super defensive lines and Lb's. Wolford is not going to build a YSU team that looks anything like NDSU or SDSU. Do I like it? No-I despise it. Strollo hired him. All I'm saying is that this year, we are in the top 16. Next year we are far from it. I understand that the schedule was front loaded with weak teams-thank the athletic dept for that. Wolford does not control it. We had a good win at SIU and showed we can play with a banged up UNI team, but just because the team does not look like you want it to look doesn't mean that it isn't in the top 16. We were clearly better than other teams and we would have beaten other teams that were picked ahead of us.

Let's let the board decide..

Is YSU a Top 16 team ~ YES or NO

1 vote for NO.

[Twentysix]

Let's let the board decide..

Is YSU a Top 16 team ~ YES or NO

1 vote for NO.

No, the same players could probably be a top 10 team with better coaching though.

[Daved]

That's what I could not understand.. Nothing against the kid but we wasted time not developing someone behind him.I agree--we had the Ohio Division 2 Offensive player of the year as a backup for 2 years that many had considered the best qb in Ohio as a senior in high school.Hess led us to a victory over Pitt last year as well as the victory in the Fargodome 2years ago when NDSU won the NC and 15 games and I give him major props for that but I also recognize that he could be consistently inconsistent.

[Bisonoline]

I agree--we had the Ohio Division 2 Offensive player of the year as a backup for 2 years that many had considered the best qb in Ohio as a senior in high school.Hess led us to a victory over Pitt last year as well as the victory in the Fargodome 2years ago when NDSU won the NC and 15 games and I give him major props for that but I also recognize that he could be consistently inconsistent.

Your offensive line won that game for you.

[SIUSalukiFan]

xchinscratchx No.. You've got to beat the best to be the best. In your scenario YSU would still be left out of the playoff's. At least I could not claim a melt down with the 3 game in a row loss. xsmugx

I'm not so sure.

From what I've read Youngstown State didn't get into the playoffs because it finished the season on a three-game losing streak. If YSU had lost to NDSU, UNI and SDSU earlier in the season (maybe every other week at some point) then that argument couldn't have been applied. It would have been an eight-win team with more than enough D1 wins to satisfy the selection committee.

[putter]

What? NAU would struggle to finish above seventh place in the MVC. xcoffeex


Um, no. NAU was horrible yesterday after the half. First half NAU was how they played most of the year but when they lost Poe it all went in the shi&&er and SDSU did what good teams do, they pounce and finish the job on a one dimensional team.

[Twentysix]

Um, no. NAU was horrible yesterday after the half. First half NAU was how they played most of the year but when they lost Poe it all went in the shi&&er and SDSU did what good teams do, they pounce and finish the job on a one dimensional team.

That's funny, because SDSU was also a one dimensional team.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

That's funny, because SDSU was also a one dimensional team.

yeah, I thought I made a comment about that yesterday but they are a way better one dimensional team than most in the country and especially NAU yesterday. I'd take NDSU and SDSU as my choice of the two top teams if the rest of the way it was a choice of one dimension as it turned out in that game yesterday. I still don't know that the game would have went any diffeerent but there was a pretty serious drop off once Poe was out but that's football and a good team has to be able to overcome that.

[Houndawg]

Hard to believe that they deserved a seed.

[stevdock]

yeah, I thought I made a comment about that yesterday but they are a way better one dimensional team than most in the country and especially NAU yesterday. I'd take NDSU and SDSU as my choice of the two top teams if the rest of the way it was a choice of one dimension as it turned out in that game yesterday. I still don't know that the game would have went any diffeerent but there was a pretty serious drop off once Poe was out but that's football and a good team has to be able to overcome that.

I understand what you are saying here but NDSU is far from one dimensional this year. We become one dimensional when it's time to run the clock out and just wear teams down. That normally starts shortly after halftime so if you only watch the second half of our games I can see why you would say that ;)

[LeeshaJo]

WIU will be next years surprise contender. Heard it here first.

without knowing who the teams have back, if we are going only based on what we saw this year, MSU could be right in it too.

[Houndawg]

without knowing who the teams have back, if we are going only based on what we saw this year, MSU could be right in it too.

True dat, but they won't be a surprise.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I understand what you are saying here but NDSU is far from one dimensional this year. We become one dimensional when it's time to run the clock out and just wear teams down. That normally starts shortly after halftime so if you only watch the second half of our games I can see why you would say that ;)

I nevver even came close to saying NDSU or even SDSU are one dimensional normally. They both have terrific ability to get it done in a couple different ways. The key word in my last comment was "if" and then it's a landslide.

[RabidRabbit]

Amazing how powerful that little word IF :p is!

SDSU and NDSU are very similar teams in how they play the game, and what the type game strategies are. So happy that the selection committee saw fit to put the Jacks on the other side of the bracket from NDSU. Sure, SDSU will have to play through some extremely talented teams to make it to Frisco, but I can see these two Dakota States move up partners and intense friendly rivals in a neutral site game for the title. xsmugx

As Coach Stig would say 1-0 each week. This Sat. it's at EWU.

Appreciate the free recruiting, and sports page emphasis game at Flagstaff. Should help the Jackrabbits continue to import AZ talent to SD. Don't know if we have much out of WA, ID or OR, so that should be a very focused game.

[KUlawJack]

Um, no. NAU was horrible yesterday after the half. First half NAU was how they played most of the year but when they lost Poe it all went in the shi&&er and SDSU did what good teams do, they pounce and finish the job on a one dimensional team.

NAU was horrible after the half because we beat the piss out of them up front on both sides of the ball. Bauman had negative yards in the second half. Poe was out for the third quarter because we put him out. Somehow, he did manage to come back in garbage time against our second teamers after the game was in hand to lead NAU on its longest drive of the second half before being picked off again. Two drives in the second half for Poe - two picks.

[penguinpower]

NAU was horrible after the half because we beat the piss out of them up front on both sides of the ball. Bauman had negative yards in the second half. Poe was out for the third quarter because we put him out. Somehow, he did manage to come back in garbage time against our second teamers after the game was in hand to lead NAU on its longest drive of the second half before being picked off again. Two drives in the second half for Poe - two picks.

Good post.

And the BSC should not have had 4 teams get in. The bottom of the BSC is lower than the bottom of the MVFC. 0-2 on the opening weekend is enough proof.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

NAU was horrible after the half because we beat the piss out of them up front on both sides of the ball. Bauman had negative yards in the second half. Poe was out for the third quarter because we put him out. Somehow, he did manage to come back in garbage time against our second teamers after the game was in hand to lead NAU on its longest drive of the second half before being picked off again. Two drives in the second half for Poe - two picks.
All these points are true. It was made easy for your DC to tee off on them once Cartright came in...dude couldn't do anything at all and it was all Bauman and SDSU knew it and made them pay for it.

NAU could not return the favor with their front 7 even though the secondary was keping it down on the back end.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Good post.

And the BSC should not have had 4 teams get in. The bottom of the BSC is lower than the bottom of the MVFC. 0-2 on the opening weekend is enough proof.

Look dude, the Penguins got smashed worse than NAU did just one week removed so you got no room for your diatribe. You would have loved to have gotten beaten by 19 instead of the 42-13 ass whoopin' you guys took. NAU handled SDSU much better than YSU did and they were definitely more deserving to be there than the team you keep barking about.

[Bisonator]

Would have been better to have 3 teams from both the BSC and the MVFC but didn't happen. We are now even! :D

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Would have been better to have 3 teams from both the BSC and the MVFC but didn't happen. We are now even! :D

Agreed. BSC almost always gets two and in a very rare year a third but it is what it was and when you are down to that last four or six in it doesn't make too much difference in the product outcome as to who you choose cuz it really wasn't earned. NAU did earn their way in though.

[Bisonator]

Agreed. BSC almost always gets two and in a very rare year a third but it is what it was and when you are down to that last four or six in it doesn't make too much difference in the product outcome as to who you choose cuz it really wasn't earned. NAU did earn their way in though.

I agree. SUU did not IMO.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I agree. SUU did not IMO.

In retrospect it would be hard to argue that and I won't do it. Of course a lot of other teams in that area that would have been let in would also have the same look back I'm guessing.

[Daved]

Look dude, the Penguins got smashed worse than NAU did just one week removed so you got no room for your diatribe. You would have loved to have gotten beaten by 19 instead of the 42-13 ass whoopin' you guys took. NAU handled SDSU much better than YSU did and they were definitely more deserving to be there than the team you keep barking about.Yeah remember NAU smashed Montana so they must be the real deal.xcoolx

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Yeah remember NAU smashed Montana so they must be the real deal.xcoolx

They did smash us. They were the real deal at that time and deserved to be in the playoffs. Any questions?

I'll answer anyway.

It's pretty pathetic to be walking around and acting like you've got some reason to be measuring your richard when you are borrowing several inches from a relative.