Ranking the Conferences

[dystopiamembrane]

1. Missouri Valley
2. Colonial
3. Southland
4. OH Valley
5. Big Sky
6. Ivy League
7. Patriot League
8. Southern
9. Big South
10. Mid-Eastern AC
11. Northeast
12. Southwestern AC
13. Pioneer

[Twentysix]

1. Missouri Valley
2. Colonial
3. Southland
4. OH Valley
5. Big Sky
6. Ivy League
7. Patriot League
8. Southern
9. Big South
10. Mid-Eastern AC
11. Northeast
12. Southwestern AC
13. Pioneer

Nope.

[Twentysix]

1 MISSOURI VALLEY
2 --
3 --
4 --
5 COLONIAL
6 SOUTHLAND
7 OHIO VALLEY
8 IVY LEAGUE
9 BIG SKY
10 SOUTHERN
11 BIG SOUTH
12 PATRIOT
13 I-AA INDEPENDENTS
14 MID-EASTERN
15 NORTHEAST
16 SWAC-EAST
17 PIONEER
18 SWAC-WEST

[kalm]

1 MISSOURI VALLEY
2 --
3 --
4 --
5 COLONIAL
6 SOUTHLAND
7 OHIO VALLEY
8 IVY LEAGUE
9 BIG SKY
10 SOUTHERN
11 BIG SOUTH
12 PATRIOT
13 I-AA INDEPENDENTS
14 MID-EASTERN
15 NORTHEAST
16 SWAC-EAST
17 PIONEER
18 SWAC-WEST

Nope

[Twentysix]

Nope

U mad bro?¹

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/ncaaf/sagarin/2013/conference/


----------------------
¹ This is so you can see my rankings were an alternative computer ranking, and you can now lulz. Dystopiamembrane titled his thread "Ranking the Conferences" when he should have titled it, "Massey Conference Rankings"; he has done this all season, that is why it is entertaining to throw alternate algorithms at him. He is simply plagiarizing someone else’s information and pretending he arrived at it on his own.

[ming01]

1. CAA
2. MVC
3. Big Sky
4. Southland
5. OVC
6. SoCo
7. Ivy
8. Big South
9. Patriot
10. MEAC
11. NEC
12. Swac
13. Pioneer

[Professor Chaos]

1 MISSOURI VALLEY
2 MID-AMERICAN
3 SUN BELT
4 CONFERENCE USA
5 COLONIAL
6 SOUTHLAND
7 OHIO VALLEY
8 IVY LEAGUE
9 BIG SKY
10 SOUTHERN
11 BIG SOUTH
12 PATRIOT
13 I-AA INDEPENDENTS
14 MID-EASTERN
15 NORTHEAST
16 SWAC-EAST
17 PIONEER
18 SWAC-WEST
FIFY xthumbsupx

[Sammy94]

1. Missouri Valley
2. SEC
3. Pac-12
4. Big 10
5. Big XII

[MSUBobcat]

U mad bro?

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/ncaaf/sagarin/2013/conference/

Since you refuted dystopia's rankings, which we all know are based on some computer rankings, with a computer ranking of your own choosing, why is kalm's "Nope" any less valid than your "Nope" to dystopia? xrotatehxxrolleyesx

[Professor Chaos]

1. Missouri Valley
2. SEC
3. Pac-12
4. Big 10
5. Big XII
I may put the SEC and Pac-12 slightly ahead of the MVFC... it's a tough call though so I can see your argument.

[Twentysix]

Since you refuted dystopia's rankings, which we all know are based on some computer rankings, with a computer ranking of your own choosing, why is kalm's "Nope" any less valid than your "Nope" to dystopia? xrotatehxxrolleyesx

U mad bro?

[Franks Tanks]

By tier

Tier 1- CAA & MVC

Tier 2- Big Sky, Southland, OVC & Southern

Tier 3- Ivy, Patriot & Big South

Tier 4- MEAC, SWAC & NEC

Tier 5- Pioneer


We can argue all day regarding the rankings within the tiers, but IMO this is generally the break down.

[Squealofthepig]

U mad bro?

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/ncaaf/sagarin/2013/conference/

He merely dismissed you in EXACTLY the same way dismissed another. If you can't take it, don't dish it, bro.

[Red & Black]

U mad bro?

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/ncaaf/sagarin/2013/conference/

UNC, ISU, Weber, and UND drag the Sky's rankings waaaay down. One of the down sides to having such a large conference.

The Big Sky's top 3 or 4 are very comparable to any of the other power conferences.

Does anyone SERIOUSLY believe that the OVC is a stronger conference than the Big Sky? The Sky obviously has far more depth at the top.
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[Twentysix]

He merely dismissed you in EXACTLY the same way dismissed another. If you can't take it, don't dish it, bro.

Lol, I simply dismissed masseytopia by using another algorithm. Obviously the lulz went over the bigsky's head.

I'll make sure to include footnotes in the future so everyone can follow along.

[kalm]

He merely dismissed you in EXACTLY the same way dismissed another. If you can't take it, don't dish it, bro.

For all the terrific on-field success achieved by NDSU and SHSU over the past two years, the level of insecurity still seen in some of their fans is simply breathtaking.

[kalm]

Lol, I simply dismissed masseytopia by using another algorithm. Obviously the lulz went over the bigsky's head.

I'll make sure to include footnotes in the future so everyone can follow along.

Case in point.

[Twentysix]

Case in point.

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?147925-Ranking-the-Conferences&p=2054396&viewfull=1#post2054396

I made it easier for people to follow along.

The footnote should really help the elderly.

[kalm]

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?147925-Ranking-the-Conferences&p=2054396&viewfull=1#post2054396

I made it easier for people to follow along.

The footnote should really help the elderly.

You mad bro?

[dystopiamembrane]

Thanks for setting me straight, Twentysix. I was pretending that I arrived at it on my own.

[Twentysix]

You mad bro?

He gets it!

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_nU_C8t8tNEg/TJjoVvNRIZI/AAAAAAAAAFU/0hWsRLmAKvw/s1600/sloth-300x199.jpg¹

----------------
¹ This sloth is me giving you a digital high five for realizing why the OP should be mocked for deliberately trying to conceal that he is copy and pasting Massey ratings, intentionally plagiarizing without even a mention of the original source.

[Twentysix]

Thanks for setting me straight, Twentysix. I was pretending that I arrived at it on my own.

No problem Massey. Massey doesn't use any sort of intellectual copyright, right? Atleast what you are doing is only immoral and not illegal. Wouldn't want you to get AGS in some kind of legal battle.

[centennial]

UNC, ISU, Weber, and UND drag the Sky's rankings waaaay down. One of the down sides to having such a large conference.

The Big Sky's top 3 or 4 are very comparable to any of the other power conferences.


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Top 5 MVFC
Sagarin= (24+ 86 + 91 + 102 + 105)/5 =81.6 GPI top 5 avg =11
Top 5 Big Sky
Sagarin = (72+103+ 125+ 133+137)/5=114 GPI top 5 avg = 17.4

[kalm]

Top 5 MVFC
Sagarin= (24+ 86 + 91 + 102 + 105)/5 =81.6 GPI top 5 avg =11
Top 5 Big Sky
Sagarin = (72+103+ 125+ 133+137)/5=114 GPI top 5 avg = 17.4

Kind of missing the point here

[Twentysix]

Kind of missing the point here

This needs a footnote.

[dystopiamembrane]

No problem Massey. Massey doesn't use any sort of intellectual copyright, right? Atleast what you are doing is only immoral and not illegal. Wouldn't want you to get AGS in some kind of legal battle.Not sure where our relationship went wrong, Twentysix. I still love you, you know. You can always call me.

[Red & Black]

Top 5 MVFC
Sagarin= (24+ 86 + 91 + 102 + 105)/5 =81.6 GPI top 5 avg =11
Top 5 Big Sky
Sagarin = (72+103+ 125+ 133+137)/5=114 GPI top 5 avg = 17.4

Removing NDSU and EWU out of the equation, you get:

MVFC=96 GPI
Big Sky=124.5 GPI

So as you can see, the MVFC's GPI is somewhat slanted because of NDSU's ratings. My point still stands. xtwocentsxxcoffeex

And I never said that the Sky is stronger than the MVFC - I said it is comparable. My argument was towards the OVC, specifically, and how it's not really realistic to claim that it's a tougher conference.

But I guess when all you do is look at computer rankings...

[Twentysix]

Not sure where our relationship went wrong, Twentysix. I still love you, you know. You can always call me.

http://i.imgur.com/2TdgdA0.gif

[MSUBobcat]

26,

If you have a problem with dystopia not citing Massey or claiming it as his own, your comment should have been directed at him, not "you mad bro" to kalm when he disagrees with the computer ranking that you cited. Not sure how your initial response to kalm would be seen as calling out dystopia for "plagiarizing", but somehow in your head there's some circular logic where it should have been obvious to the rest of us.

[kalm]

Removing NDSU and EWU out of the equation, you get:

MVFC=96 GPI
Big Sky=124.5 GPI

So as you can see, the MVFC's GPI is somewhat slanted because of NDSU's ratings. My point still stands. xtwocentsxxcoffeex

And I never said that the Sky is stronger than the MVFC - I said it is comparable. My argument was towards the OVC, specifically, and how it's not really realistic to claim that it's a tougher conference.

But I guess when all you do is look at computer rankings...

This.

line up the top six teams from each conference head to head on neutral fields and it would be a toss up. Conference rankings show a flaw in the computers this year.

[Twentysix]

26,

If you have a problem with dystopia not citing Massey or claiming it as his own, your comment should have been directed at him, not "you mad bro" to kalm when he disagrees with the computer ranking that you cited. Not sure how your initial response to kalm would be seen as calling out dystopia for "plagiarizing", but somehow in your head there's some circular logic where it should have been obvious to the rest of us.

No worries man, I added the footnote. It's all solved now innit.

[centennial]

Well and as you see even without the top team, MVFC and Big Sky have some difference. Take Eastern Washington and NDSU out and the bottom 3-4 teams and the MVFC is still stronger. South Dakota almost took out your 3rd place team and was close to your 2nd place team. They are 7th in our conference.
Big Sky Logic-
Take MVFC top 2 teams out and our bottom 4 teams out and we are equals.

[MSUBobcat]

No worries man, I added the footnote.

Yeah, saw it. Probably should have cited your rankings in post #3, as that could be seen as doing the same thing as dystopia, no? In that same post, you could also have told dystopia he needs to cite his post also and there would be no need for your "you mad bro" 's. But then there'd only be 4 posts to this thread and we'd have to find something else to discuss..... so good call in how you handled it. xthumbsupxxlolx

[Twentysix]

Yeah, saw it. Probably should have cited your rankings in post #3, as that could be seen as doing the same thing as dystopia, no? In that same post, you could also have told dystopia he needs to cite his post also and there would be no need for your "you mad bro" 's. But then there'd only be 4 posts to this thread and we'd have to find something else to discuss..... so good call in how you handled it. xthumbsupxxlolx

I provided the url on the same page ;).

http://cdn.firstwefeast.com/assets/2013/06/2836.gif

[kalm]

Well and as you see even without the top team, MVFC and Big Sky have some difference. Take Eastern Washington and NDSU out and the bottom 3-4 teams and the MVFC is still stronger. South Dakota almost took out your 3rd place team and was close to your 2nd place team. They are 7th in our conference.
Big Sky Logic-
Take MVFC top 2 teams out and our bottom 4 teams out and we are equals.

Yeah, and barely beat our 8th best team at home. Them there's your 3rd best team SDSU who let a terrible 1-10 UND back in the game winning by one score. See how this works?

(Playfully lobbing vollies back to the Midwest)

[Texas]

Wait ranking don't take history into account?!?! Say it ain't so!

Face it Big Sky is a shadow of its former self, purely overrated because of past success. Time to put this old girl down.


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[Red & Black]

Well and as you see even without the top team, MVFC and Big Sky have some difference. Take Eastern Washington and NDSU out and the bottom 3-4 teams and the MVFC is still stronger. South Dakota almost took out your 3rd place team and was close to your 2nd place team. They are 7th in our conference.
Big Sky Logic-
Take MVFC top 2 teams out and our bottom 4 teams out and we are equals.

Yeah, except that's not what I said at all. There are some really bad teams in the Big Sky this year. UNC is horrible...Weber State is horrible...so is ISU and UND. When you have a 13 member conference, and 4 of those 13 are very bad teams, of course it's going to drag the rest of the conference down. It also means that a win against one of them, even a blow-out win, doesn't do much to improve your team's ratings.

The MVFC is a good conference. Probably the best conference in the FCS; but you guys act like there is some major disparity in talent between it and all the other conferences. Clearly not true - See Illinois State @ EWU in last year's playoffs. A lot of the NDSU fans were claiming that the 3rd team in the MVFC was going to blow us out, and they got rocked. That is just one example. There are many others.

[Red & Black]

Wait ranking don't take history into account?!?! Say it ain't so!

Face it Big Sky is a shadow of its former self, purely overrated because of past success. Time to put this old girl down.


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Having a team from the conference make the semi-finals in each of the past 4 years, with a NC thrown in there is over-rated? If you say so, I guess.

[centennial]

Yeah, and barely beat our 8th best team at home. Them there's your 3rd best team SDSU who let a terrible 1-10 UND back in the game winning by one score. See how this works?

(Playfully lobbing vollies back to the Midwest)

They also beat SELA who beat your nemesis Sam Houston. Big Sky has just been down, I don't know why you guys think that it is stronger than MVFC, CAA, Southland. OVC is probably the only argument that works.

[Texas]

Having a team from the conference make the semi-finals in each of the past 4 years is over-rated? If you say so, I guess.

Yes.
-love Fan of SHSU the destroyer of Big Sky hopes and dreams.


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[MSUBobcat]

I provided the url on the same page ;).

I don't really care, but I don't think providing the url on the same page, but different post, is proper citing. Its like saying, "here's my thoughts." and then saying, "see, this guy agrees with me". Just saying.

18551

[Red & Black]

They also beat SELA who beat your nemesis Sam Houston. Big Sky has just been down, I don't know why you guys think that it is stronger than MVFC, CAA, Southland. OVC is probably the only argument that works.

I don't think anyone is saying the Sky is a stronger conference than the MVFC. I think it's stronger than the OVC, and comparable with the CAA and Southland.

As far as head to heads this season, there just isn't a great sampling between the two:
Northern Arizona 22, South Dakota 16
Montana 31, South Dakota 27
UC-Davis 7, South Dakota 10
UNI 26, UNC 7
UND 28, SDSU 35

[kalm]

They also beat SELA who beat your nemesis Sam Houston. Big Sky has just been down, I don't know why you guys think that it is stronger than MVFC, CAA, Southland. OVC is probably the only argument that works.

No one has claimed the BSC is stronger. I've contended for years that the big 4 are all pretty equal. You'll go through spells like the CAA has of late where they might not get a team in the semi's for a couple of years, but overall they're pretty much comparable. Hell, it wasn't that long ago that the MVFC was considered the worst of the 4 not winning a chipper in a decade and getting pummeled every trip they made to Missoula. And up until two years ago, the Southland was a distant 5th. It appears it's now the Southern's turn to be the worst of the big 5.

Stick with it hit awhile and you'll start to figure things out.

[fmrbearkat]

1. North Dakota State
2. Colonial
4. Southland
5. OH Valley
6. Big Sky
7. MVC
8. Ivy League
9. Patriot League
10. Southern
11. Big South
12. Mid-Eastern AC
13. Northeast
14. Southwestern AC
15. Pioneer

I'd say this is more accurate!

[maine612]

By tier

Tier 1- CAA & MVC

Tier 2- Big Sky, Southland, OVC & Southern

Tier 3- Ivy, Patriot & Big South

Tier 4- MEAC, SWAC & NEC

Tier 5- Pioneer


We can argue all day regarding the rankings within the tiers, but IMO this is generally the break down.

Very good way of looking at it. Agree with this assessment.

[centennial]

I think Southern's time is done. They just lost their top 2 teams. They are no better than the Big South now, that might change in 3 years but for now they are a weak conference top to bottom.

[Silenoz]

Jesus, MVFC and Sam Houston fans are obsessed with "us". Flattering?

[Tealblood]

I still find it funny that Big South is ranked beneath Southern despite our record against them this year

I think it would be interesting if this was re-computed moving easily the worst team in Big South--VMI to their new home the Southern

[coastalalum]

I counted quickly so I hope I'm right here. The Big South is 6-3 versus the SoCon. The top 4 Big South teams are 6-0 while the 3 SoCon wins have come against Presby and VMI.

[fmrbearkat]

Jesus, MVFC and Sam Houston fans are obsessed with "us". Flattering?

I wouldn't say obsessed at all. We understand and respect that yall are good better than anybody would. But the MVC at the beginning of the year looks a whole lot weaker than it does right now. If the game was played this saturday I wouldn't pick any team in the conference outside of the Buffaloes to beat SELA, McNeese or SHSU. After week 3 that wasn't the case.

[jacksfan29]

UNC, ISU, Weber, and UND drag the Sky's rankings waaaay down. One of the down sides to having such a large conference.

The Big Sky's top 3 or 4 are very comparable to any of the other power conferences.

Does anyone SERIOUSLY believe that the OVC is a stronger conference than the Big Sky? The Sky obviously has far more depth at the top.
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Once you get past EWU and Montana there really isn't much to talk about.

Also dragging BSC down, Poly, Davis, and lately MSU. NAU and SUU are mid-pack teams in the CAA or MVFC. To your point about the OVC, that I would agree with. EIU is my choice to be the first seed to go down.

[frozennorth]

the weakness of the sky isn't at the top, NAU, UM and EWU are pretty good. It's the vast terrible bottom. The CAA and MVFC really only have 1 cupcake each this year.

[Texas]

the weakness of the sky isn't at the top, NAU, UM and EWU are pretty good. It's the vast terrible bottom. The CAA and MVFC really only have 1 cupcake each this year.

The weakness is the whole conference the top is slightly above average at best. Let's be real here.


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[Red & Black]

Once you get past EWU and Montana there really isn't much to talk about.

Also dragging BSC down, Poly, Davis, and lately MSU. NAU and SUU are mid-pack teams in the CAA or MVFC. To your point about the OVC, that I would agree with. EIU is my choice to be the first seed to go down.

Not sure how MSU, at 7-4, is dragging down the Big Sky. They have one bad loss (SFA) when they were missing their starting QB, but other than that their losses have been to an FBS and two playoff bound teams. Disagree that NAU and SUU are "mid-pack" teams in the CAA or MVFC, but IMO neither will go very far in the playoffs. NAU is not balanced enough offensively, and SUU just lacks the offensive production to hang with some of the elite teams. They do have a good defense, though.

The MVFC is a bit of a one-trick pony this year - outside of NDSU, and maybe Youngstown, there's not much to talk about. 5-7 Missouri State...the 3rd place team in the MVFC? SDSU is a bubble team at best, and if they beat YSU, then YSU most likely is a bubble as well. UNI is a good team, but lost too many games they should have won, injuries or not.

[Red & Black]

The weakness is the whole conference the top is slightly above average at best. Let's be real here.


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The Southland is decent, this year. It has been quite a while...

[Texas]

The Southland is decent, this year. It has been quite a while...

Ok? I could honestly give two ****s on what SLC does. Conference CJs the Big Sky have are retarded. Almost as bad as the SEC.


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[ValleyTalk]

MVFC has 7 teams in top 26 in Massey. It is more than just NDSU folks, the league is solI'd from top to bottom.

[SeattleGriz]

Top 5 MVFC
Sagarin= (24+ 86 + 91 + 102 + 105)/5 =81.6 GPI top 5 avg =11
Top 5 Big Sky
Sagarin = (72+103+ 125+ 133+137)/5=114 GPI top 5 avg = 17.4

We shall see. I personally think that the MVC ranking is over-inflated because they play a lot of Big 10 teams, which in turn get to play a lot of other conferences. Most of the computer rankings become more valid as the wider sample size becomes wider. Essentially, I think the MVC benefits from being in a great geographical location.

Of course I could be totally off too, but it sure sounds good being a Big Sky fan. xlolx

[fmrbearkat]

MVFC has 7 teams in top 26 in Massey. It is more than just NDSU folks, the league is solI'd from top to bottom.

Massey is a bs poll!! There are 3 total and only 1 in the top 10 in the polls that matter!

[kalm]

Ok? I could honestly give two ****s on what SLC does. Conference CJs the Big Sky have are retarded. Almost as bad as the SEC.


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And the obsession and insecurity continue...

You guys have two really great years to hang your hats on and who knows, perhaps you'll make another solid run.


No reason to feel so inadequate my man...

[skinny_uncle]

Massey is a bs poll!! There are 3 total and only 1 in the top 10 in the polls that matter!

What polls do you think matter? I have a feeling you might be in for a surprise.

[Red & Black]

What polls do you think matter? I have a feeling you might be in for a surprise.

There's not enough inter-conference play in the FCS to take any of the polls that seriously. Thank goodness we have the playoffs. xnodx

[Lehigh'98]

MVFC has 7 teams in top 26 in Massey. It is more than just NDSU folks, the league is solI'd from top to bottom.

Take away NDSU and UNI and the Massey ratings for the rest of the conference would be in the toilet. Between all the rest of the teams there is one good OOC win ( SDSU vs SELA). After NDSU and a non injured UNI, every single other team is remarkably average or bad.

[centennial]

Take away NDSU and UNI and the Massey ratings for the rest of the conference would be in the toilet. Between all the rest of the teams there is one good OOC win ( SDSU vs SELA). After NDSU and a non injured UNI, every single other team is remarkably average or bad.
Massey
Youngstown - 10
SDSU - 14
SIU- 23
Missouri St- 31
Illinois State - 33
South Dakota - 52

Lehigh - 35

[ValleyTalk]

Massey
Youngstown - 10
SDSU - 14
SIU- 23
Missouri St- 31
Illinois State - 33
South Dakota - 52

Lehigh - 35
Truth hurts.

FWIW. YSU is ahead of 44 FBS teams in Sagarin... Which puts them in the 80s of all D1 teams...

These computer polls play a factor into the new ratings system the playoff committee will be using his year.

[Lehigh'98]

Massey
Youngstown - 10
SDSU - 14
SIU- 23
Missouri St- 31
Illinois State - 33
South Dakota - 52

Lehigh - 35

Not sure what Lehigh has to do with this besides my name. Of course your conference is stronger than Patriot. My point was that team in MVFC minus NDSU and winner of YSU / SDSU has enough good wins to be considered for playoffs. UNI is an interesting case, but ultimately 5 conf losses will do them in. The reason your conference is so high in computer polls is because of the ridiculous amount of weight placed on SOS. Had it not been for NDSU beating KSU and UNI beating Iowa State the conference would be crap as far as computers go.

[centennial]

So take NDSU out also UNI. Then the conference is crap? I don't know what the problem on this board is MVFC is not a 1 team conference. Ideally there should be 4 teams coming out of it to the playoffs. The only reason they aren't is because they beat up on each other too much. I still think SDSU(with win) and YSU are a lock along with a chance for UNI. We have been solid across the board. A lot of our OOC is BCS/FBS are we aren't getting blown away every game.
Indiana State-
vs Indiana 73-35L
vs Purdue 20-14L
WIU-
vs Minnesota 29-12L
vs UNLV 38-7L

UNI-
vs Iowa State 28-20W
vs McNesse 41-6W

SD-
vs Kansas 31-14L
vs Montana 31-27L

Illinois State
vs Ball State 51-28L
vs EIU 57-24L

SDSU
vs Nebraska 59-20L
vs SELA 34-26W

SIU
vs Illinois 42-34L
vs EIU 40-37L

MSU
vs Iowa 28-14L

YSU
vs Michigan State 55-17L

NDSU
vs Kansas State 24-21W

[gotts]

So I caught up on a day's worth of threads just right now (this thread included), and I must say, that is a fantastic trolling effort today 26, kudos! :D

[Cocky]

So take NDSU out also UNI. Then the conference is crap? I don't know what the problem on this board is MVFC is not a 1 team conference. Ideally there should be 4 teams coming out of it to the playoffs. The only reason they aren't is because they beat up on each other too much. I still think SDSU(with win) and YSU are a lock along with a chance for UNI. We have been solid across the board. A lot of our OOC is BCS/FBS are we aren't getting blown away every game.
Indiana State-
vs Indiana 73-35L
vs Purdue 20-14L
WIU-
vs Minnesota 29-12L
vs UNLV 38-7L

UNI-
vs Iowa State 28-20W
vs McNesse 41-6W

SD-
vs Kansas 31-14L
vs Montana 31-27L

Illinois State
vs Ball State 51-28L
vs EIU 57-24L

SDSU
vs Nebraska 59-20L
vs SELA 34-26W

SIU
vs Illinois 42-34L
vs EIU 40-37L

MSU
vs Iowa 28-14L

YSU
vs Michigan State 55-17L

NDSU
vs Kansas State 24-21W
Missouri St who is 2nd or 3rd in the conference loss to NW St, Murray St and CAU.

[Red & Black]

Missouri St who is 2nd or 3rd in the conference loss to NW St, Murray St and CAU.

They'll find a way to explain those ones away. xlolx

[Hammerhead]

The average Sagarin rating of the top 4 teams in the following conferences have the Big Sky as the 5th best conference among those who participate in the playoffs.
MVFC = 75.75
CAA = 79.25
Southland = 97.25
OHV = 104.50
BSC = 108.25

Using the average of the top 3 teams, the Big Sky is still 5th.

MVFC = 67.00
CAA = 77.33
Southland = 86.33
OHV = 95.67
BSC = 100.00




UNC, ISU, Weber, and UND drag the Sky's rankings waaaay down. One of the down sides to having such a large conference.

The Big Sky's top 3 or 4 are very comparable to any of the other power conferences.

Does anyone SERIOUSLY believe that the OVC is a stronger conference than the Big Sky? The Sky obviously has far more depth at the top.
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[fmrbearkat]

What polls do you think matter? I have a feeling you might be in for a surprise.

The polls that "matter" are the sports network and the coaches poll. You know...the ones that are actually used by the committee to select the playoff teams. I know they are not the best polls as ags is usually better but they are consistently quite a bit better than the sagarin and Massey.

[FormerPokeCenter]

I think you have to wait until after the season to rank the conferences objectively...

[robsnotes4u]

The polls that "matter" are the sports network and the coaches poll. You know...the ones that are actually used by the committee to select the playoff teams. I know they are not the best polls as ags is usually better but they are consistently quite a bit better than the sagarin and Massey.

Where did you read that?

http://www.ncaa.com/fcs-selections-101

4. At any time during the process, the committee my consider comparative data of individual teams, including but not limited to overall record, record against division 1opponents, record against opponents from other qualifying conferences, records against FBS opponents, head to head record, common opponent records, NCAA SRS and input from regional advisory committee.

Selection, seeding, and bracketing require a 70% approval by committee members.




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[fmrbearkat]

Where did you read that?

http://www.ncaa.com/fcs-selections-101

4. At any time during the process, the committee my consider comparative data of individual teams, including but not limited to overall record, record against division 1opponents, record against opponents from other qualifying conferences, records against FBS opponents, head to head record, common opponent records, NCAA SRS and input from regional advisory committee.

Selection, seeding, and bracketing require a 70% approval by committee members.




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“We try to look at the teams from a broad perspective,” Bourne said. “We don’t look strictly at win-loss record.”
Teams are chosen by their record, national coaches and media polls, and strength of schedule, Bourne said.

http://www.montanakaimin.com/sports/article_36507b1c-5183-11e3-9df5-0019bb30f31a.html

I was told that they are given a set of information to use and coaches, sid, and sports network were the only polls used and that no system using a computer was used. Now this was well before the new SRS but im still not even sure if they are using that this year or if they are going to examine it this year after the picks to see how it would have changed things. My guess is they don't use it this year.

[lionsrking2]

Tom Burnett said last night that the polls are NOT used to select and seed teams. They will zero impact.

[robsnotes4u]

“We try to look at the teams from a broad perspective,” Bourne said. “We don’t look strictly at win-loss record.”
Teams are chosen by their record, national coaches and media polls, and strength of schedule, Bourne said.

http://www.montanakaimin.com/sports/article_36507b1c-5183-11e3-9df5-0019bb30f31a.html

I was told that they are given a set of information to use and coaches, sid, and sports network were the only polls used and that no system using a computer was used. Now this was well before the new SRS but im still not even sure if they are using that this year or if they are going to examine it this year after the picks to see how it would have changed things. My guess is they don't use it this year.

I see where he mentions coaches poll, here is the actual interview which talks about the use of SRS. They use everything they can through the year.http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=sportsnetwork&page=cfoot2/news/news.aspx?id=4641812



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[dystopiamembrane]

Massey is a bs poll!! There are 3 total and only 1 in the top 10 in the polls that matter!The rankings produced by Massey are not created through a polling process. It is a computational algorithm.

[fmrbearkat]

Tom Burnett said last night that the polls are NOT used to select and seed teams. They will zero impact.

Burnett said in the link provided that they use coaches and media polls. They do not have a bearing on the teams selected but they are there to provide more information.

Robs-

I read that same interview but i guess i didn't fully comprehend it. I took where he said it wouldn't be released until after sunday as we would all be seeing it then but it looks like they will have it saturday night and we don't get it until sunday.

[robsnotes4u]

Burnett said in the link provided that they use coaches and media polls. They do not have a bearing on the teams selected but they are there to provide more information.

Robs-

I read that same interview but i guess i didn't fully comprehend it. I took where he said it wouldn't be released until after sunday as we would all be seeing it then but it looks like they will have it saturday night and we don't get it until sunday.

I read that also. It would be cool to see the actual reasoning after the selection is complete, but then precedent would be hell.

I think we agree that there are a lot of tools for them, we just don't know what is most important, and it goes by a case by case basis.

No matter what, as much as we Ll think we know, they more than likely get it right. 70% for the most part need to agree! you could never get that on a forum.


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[Professor Chaos]

While the national polls (Coach's and TSN) are not directly used by the selection committee I'm sure they have an indirect effect on the selections because I'd have to think committee members do their research on the eligible teams and part of that research is seeing where teams rank in the two major human polls.

[Engineer86]

So take NDSU out also UNI. Then the conference is crap? I don't know what the problem on this board is MVFC is not a 1 team conference. Ideally there should be 4 teams coming out of it to the playoffs. The only reason they aren't is because they beat up on each other too much. I still think SDSU(with win) and YSU are a lock along with a chance for UNI. We have been solid across the board. A lot of our OOC is BCS/FBS are we aren't getting blown away every game.
Indiana State-
vs Indiana 73-35L
vs Purdue 20-14L
WIU-
vs Minnesota 29-12L
vs UNLV 38-7L

UNI-
vs Iowa State 28-20W
vs McNesse 41-6W

SD-
vs Kansas 31-14L
vs Montana 31-27L

Illinois State
vs Ball State 51-28L
vs EIU 57-24L

SDSU
vs Nebraska 59-20L
vs SELA 34-26W

SIU
vs Illinois 42-34L
vs EIU 40-37L

MSU
vs Iowa 28-14L

YSU
vs Michigan State 55-17L

NDSU
vs Kansas State 24-21W

All I see is L L L L L ...

[centennial]

All I see is L L L L L ...
If those were wins we'd be rated below big 10/12

[Red & Black]

If those were wins we'd be rated below big 10/12

You guys are becoming as bad as CAA fans, circa 2004-2009.

[centennial]

You guys are becoming as bad as CAA fans, circa 2004-2009.
When did I ever claim we are a BCS league? All I said was we aren't a 1 team league and then listed the hardest games, most of them were losses(to FBS/BCS). I've seen it all in this thread. MVFC sucks because outside of NDSU everyone sucks, proven wrong multiple times. Big sky is as good, proven wrong multiple times. Without EWU and NDSU the leagues are equal, proven wrong.
Now, I am giving up and have changed my mind with all the evidence that is been presented.
Here is my new list-
1. EWU
2. Rest of Big Sky
3. Lehigh
4. Colonial
5. Southland
6. Patriot League
7. NDSU
8. OH Valley
9. Southern
10. Big South
11. Mid-Eastern AC
12. Northeast
13. Southwestern AC
14. Pioneer
15. Rest of MVFC

[Lehigh'98]

I would change 15 and 9 on your list and its perfect!!

[centennial]

I would change 15 and 9 on your list and its perfect!!
New list from orders of our Lehigh masters-
1. EWU
2. Rest of Big Sky
3. Lehigh
4. Colonial
5. Southland
6. Patriot League
7. NDSU
8. OH Valley
9. Rest of MVFC
10. Big South
11. Mid-Eastern AC
12. Northeast
13. Southwestern AC
14. Pioneer
15. Southern

[Red & Black]

When did I ever claim we are a BCS league? All I said was we aren't a 1 team league and then listed the hardest games, most of them were losses(to FBS/BCS). I've seen it all in this thread. MVFC sucks because outside of NDSU everyone sucks, proven wrong multiple times. Big sky is as good, proven wrong multiple times. Without EWU and NDSU the leagues are equal, proven wrong.
Now, I am giving up and have changed my mind with all the evidence that is been presented.
Here is my new list-
1. EWU
2. Rest of Big Sky
3. Lehigh
4. Colonial
5. Southland
6. Patriot League
7. NDSU
8. OH Valley
9. Southern
10. Big South
11. Mid-Eastern AC
12. Northeast
13. Southwestern AC
14. Pioneer
15. Rest of MVFC


We could go around and around with this. Look, nobody is saying the MVFC or NDSU sucks - far from it. What I am saying is that what you are referencing to "prove" your point sucks. There just aren't enough inter-conference games in the FCS to be able to draw accurate data from and then rank teams in a reliable manner through computer models. You cite Sagarin and then act like it's gospel. It is a flawed system for ranking FCS teams, IMO, which relies heavily on strength of schedule, and that plays in the MVFC's favor. But just because you get beat down by a bunch of B1G teams, that doesn't make you far and away the best conference in the FCS.

At the end of the day, this is all cyclical. Every conference has a down year here and there. For a while the Big Sky could lay claim to being the best conference, then the Southern, the CAA...and now, the MVFC. The fact remains that during any given year, you could could take 2 or 3 teams from all those conferences I listed, and they're going to be very good teams that are capable of beating most teams in the country. This is my whole point, and why I made the "CAA fans circa 2004-2009" comment. A lot of those fans were saying a lot of the same stuff you are, and then were knocked out of the semi's and finals in 2010 and haven't had a team back to the Chipper since.

[dbackjon]

the weakness of the sky isn't at the top, NAU, UM and EWU are pretty good. It's the vast terrible bottom. The CAA and MVFC really only have 1 cupcake each this year.

SB, UA and URI look pretty cup-cakey.

ISU-b, WIU as well.

[Engineer86]

If those were wins we'd be rated below big 10/12

IF IF IF IF IF IF .....

[DoWe]

I suspect most here will be changing their minds about the SoCon in the weeks that follow.

[penguinpower]

UNI smashed McNeese and they aren't even being considered in the playoff picture. The MVFC is the best conference followed by everyone else

[SeattleGriz]

UNI smashed McNeese and they aren't even being considered in the playoff picture. The MVFC is the best conference followed by everyone else

Is that why the MVC hasn't had a team not named NDSU make it past the quarterfinals since 2008? Yeah, power conference.

[MSUBobcat]

UNI smashed McNeese and they aren't even being considered in the playoff picture. The MVFC is the best conference followed by everyone else

Are they not considered in the playoff picture because they lost to teams they wouldn't have if they hadn't had so many injuries, or because they lost to teams they could have because the MVFC is so equal? My guess is UNI, and its fans, are pissed the way this season, which looked very promising, ended up.

[BisonTru]

Any way you slice it the valley seems to be the best conference at the moment. We'll have a better idea after the conclusion of the playoffs. The CAA and Big Sky are hoping for 4 teams. The OVC and SLC are hoping for 3 teams. IMO, the valley at least deserves three representatives. If SDSU loses UNI has an argument they should be the third valley team in. SDSU and SIU should also be in the conversation. I'd take any three of those teams vs. the Big Sky or CAA's #4 in a first round matchup.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

UNI smashed McNeese and they aren't even being considered in the playoff picture. The MVFC is the best conference followed by everyone else

What about Missouri State losing to Murray State, Northwestern State, and Central Arkansas? They are certainly one of the better MVFC teams.

[Red & Black]

What about Missouri State losing to Murray State, Northwestern State, and Central Arkansas? They are certainly one of the better MVFC teams.

Didn't you know? Those don't count. xcoffeex

[thebootfitter]

You cite Sagarin and then act like it's gospel. It is a flawed system for ranking FCS teams, IMO, which relies heavily on strength of schedule, and that plays in the MVFC's favor.
I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but I am curious why you believe Sagarin is a flawed system for FCS teams.

[Bisonoline]

What about Missouri State losing to Murray State, Northwestern State, and Central Arkansas? They are certainly one of the better MVFC teams.

We dont consider MSU one of the better teams.

[Red & Black]

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but I am curious why you believe Sagarin is a flawed system for FCS teams.

Sample size.

[Red & Black]

We dont consider MSU one of the better teams.

They are 3rd in the MVFC with a 5-7 record.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

We dont consider MSU one of the better teams.

Really, the team that is in third place?

[Bisonoline]

Really, the team that is in third place?

Sounds strange I know but they arent that good. They are the prime example of AGS. Plus this conference is tough. Teams get beat up every week.

[SeattleGriz]

Sounds strange I know but they arent that good. They are the prime example of AGS. Plus this conference is tough. Teams get beat up every week.


You do know that the whole, "teams in the MVC beat each other up every week" mantra has been going as long as I have been paying attention to all of FCS? That is coming up on 20+ years now. You guys really need to find a new shtick...and I get that you are saying all of that with tongue in cheek. xthumbsupx

Just throwing that out there for the others.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Sounds strange I know but they arent that good. They are the prime example of AGS. Plus this conference is tough. Teams get beat up every week.

Missouri State is 3rd because of the AGS principle, but not UNI beating McNeese?

[thebootfitter]

Sample size.
Can you elaborate?

[SeattleGriz]

Can you elaborate?

MVC is awesome and the third place team sucks ass. What don't you understand?

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[kalm]

MVC is awesome and the third place team sucks ass. What don't you understand?

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xlolx

/thread

[frozennorth]

Not sure what Lehigh has to do with this besides my name. Of course your conference is stronger than Patriot. My point was that team in MVFC minus NDSU and winner of YSU / SDSU has enough good wins to be considered for playoffs. UNI is an interesting case, but ultimately 5 conf losses will do them in. The reason your conference is so high in computer polls is because of the ridiculous amount of weight placed on SOS. Had it not been for NDSU beating KSU and UNI beating Iowa State the conference would be crap as far as computers go.
in the case of sagarin at least, SOS is determined from the predictor, not the other way around. It's more of an OLS type model.

[Cocky]

UNI smashed McNeese and they aren't even being considered in the playoff picture. The MVFC is the best conference followed by everyone else

Isnt the OVC 4 or 5 - 1 v the MVC? All but 2 games are top 6 v top 6
SEMO loss to SIU. 7th v 3rd in conference
TTU beat ISUb next to last v last

[caribbeanhen]

there was a time when the CAA fans would of dominated this thread just like the CAA dominated the FCS, Still the best conference just not as obvious anymore

[Gil Dobie]

MVC is awesome and the third place team sucks ass. What don't you understand?

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FYI - MVC is a basketball conference.

Bottom of the MVFC, WIU was ahead of Minnesota (8-2) with a minute left in the third quarter. Portland State gave Cal a close call, Cal's only win of the season. 8th place UNI beat a 1 win FBS school. 2-8 in the MVFC are pretty equal with all the injuries leveling things out.

[Gil Dobie]

Is that why the MVC hasn't had a team not named NDSU make it past the quarterfinals since 2008? Yeah, power conference.

NDSU is not in the MVC, that is a basketball conference.

I think we are talking 2013, not 2008 ;)

[kalm]

FYI - MVC is a basketball conference.

Bottom of the MVFC, WIU was ahead of Minnesota (8-2) with a minute left in the third quarter. Portland State gave Cal a close call, Cal's only win of the season. 8th place UNI beat a 1 win FBS school. 2-8 in the MVFC are pretty equal with all the injuries leveling things out.

This...for now.

[Bisonoline]

You do know that the whole, "teams in the MVC beat each other up every week" mantra has been going as long as I have been paying attention to all of FCS? That is coming up on 20+ years now. You guys really need to find a new shtick...and I get that you are saying all of that with tongue in cheek. xthumbsupx

Just throwing that out there for the others.

Its a matter of perspective I guess. MSU is in 3rd place but we dont considcer them very good. Where as the other conferences think there 3rd place team is good.
Considering how tough our conference is our 3rd place team would kick your and every others conferences 3rd place teams azz.:Dxlolx Is that whaT YOU WERE LOOKING FOR?

[kalm]

Its a matter of perspective I guess. MSU is in 3rd place but we dont considcer them very good. Where as the other conferences think there 3rd place team is good.
Considering how tough our conference is our 3rd place team would kick your and every others conferences 3rd place teams azz.:Dxlolx Is that whaT YOU WERE LOOKING FOR?

Not sure...you're second BEST team beat our worst team by a touchdown.

so there's that.

[SeattleGriz]

FYI - MVC is a basketball conference.

Bottom of the MVFC, WIU was ahead of Minnesota (8-2) with a minute left in the third quarter. Portland State gave Cal a close call, Cal's only win of the season. 8th place UNI beat a 1 win FBS school. 2-8 in the MVFC are pretty equal with all the injuries leveling things out.

ESPN says you are full of ****.

[Twentysix]

ESPN says you are full of ****.

http://www.valley-football.org/home/default/

Wouldn't be the first time ESPN was wrong.

Check the logo bud.

[Gil Dobie]

ESPN says you are full of ****.

I say you are full of ESPN :)