Numbers Game, San Diego Toreros

[Torero Tradition]

On October 9th, 2006:

San Diego is ranked #11 in Don Hansen's top 40.
San Diego is ranked #19 in the College Sporting News (CSN) Coaches Poll.
San Diego is ranked #20 in the AGS Poll.
San Diego is ranked #21 in the Sportsnetwork Poll.

The USD TOREORS moved up to 79th in the Sagarin Power Ratings for all I-A and I-AA programs, including up to 17th for all I-AA programs.

In the GPI poll last week (top indicator for at-large playoff selection) the Toreros were ranked #22.

San Diego are winners of 13 straight, and 21 of their last 22 games. The 13 straight is only matched by Ohio State in I-A and I-AA football.

For the 7th time this season and 13th poll in a row overall, the Toreros claim the No. 1 spot in the Sports Network I-AA Mid-Major Top 10, and the Toreros are the Defending National I-AA Mid-Major Champions.

Through five games this season the Toreros find themselves ranked as a team in 20 I-AA Top-25 statistical categories, but more importantly, in the Top-10 in fifteen statistical departments:
1st in total offense (498.40 yards)
1st in scoring defense (9.6)
1st in 3rd down efficiency (67.7%)
1st in punt return yardage defense (0.0)
2nd in total defense (199.60 ypg)
2nd in pass efficiency defense (79.23 rating)
3rd in scoring offense (43.40 ppg)
4th in passing offense (282.2 ypg)
4th in pass defense (117.8 ypg)
5th in rushing defense (81.8 ypg)
6th in turnovers lost (4)
6th in passing efficiency (167.31 rating)
7th in tackles for loss allowed (3.4 per game)
10th in turnover margin (+1.2)
10th inpasses had intercepted (2).

Josh Johnson, USD's outstanding junior quarterback, was selected the Pioneer Football League Offensive Player of the Week for the fourth time in six weeks this season. Johnson ranks nationally in six I-AA statistical categories - 1st in points responsible for (26.0 ppg), 2nd in total offense (330.8 ypg), 4th in total passing yards (1,321), 5th in passing yards per game (264.20), tie-5th in passing (21 completions per game), and 6th in passing efficiency (168.7 rating).

[ThreadStopper]

Thanks for the numbers TT. Do you moonlight as the USD SID? :)

[Pards Rule]

He could!!

[Maverick]

One key number you forget that impacts all of the other numbers. Strength of schedule out of 241 teams, San Diego ranks 220 according to Sagarin. That kind of number alone will be enough to keep you out of the playoffs. All of the good things and stats you cite are a function of that factor. The committee also looks at the SOS also. Until that number has improved significantly and consistently, San Diego will be a candidate for the Gridiron Classic. The chance at an NCAA Playoffs At-Large berth will require a continuous upgrade of schedule to gain the respect at this level necessary to be considered (not just mathematically eligible).

[Go Poly]

SD may be good and I hope their streak continues, but frankly they will likely get pummeled by UC Davis at the end of the season and all this talk will cease! xcoffeex

[poly51]

One key number you forget that impacts all of the other numbers. Strength of schedule out of 241 teams, San Diego ranks 220 according to Sagarin. That kind of number alone will be enough to keep you out of the playoffs. All of the good things and stats you cite are a function of that factor. The committee also looks at the SOS also. Until that number has improved significantly and consistently, San Diego will be a candidate for the Gridiron Classic. The chance at an NCAA Playoffs At-Large berth will require a continuous upgrade of schedule to gain the respect at this level necessary to be considered (not just mathematically eligible).
Strength of schedule is huge for any school without an autobid. In 1997 Cal Poly was 10-1. The beat Saint Mary's, New Mexico State I-A, Northern Iowa, Montana State, Dayton and Sac State. Their only loss was to Liberty. They also beat UC Davis D-II at that time, D-II Western Montana, D-II Western New Mexico and Simon Fraser. The schedule was too weak.

In 2004 they were 9-2. They beat Idaho State, Montana State, South Dakota State (transitional), Southern Utah, Texas State, North Dakota State (transitional) Northern Colorado and Sac State. They also beat D-II Humbolt State. The only losses were to UC Davis (transitional) and Eastern Washington. Again no invite due to the schedule. And that one was pretty tough.

University of San Diego needs to schedule tougher I-AA opponents or just move up to the Great West.

[IaaScribe]

Jeez ... we get it. You think USD rawks. No amount of squawking is going to get you the "respect" you feel you deserve, not until you play anyone. And racking those numbers up against that sort of competition isn't hard.

[ucdtim17]

Yeah look at what CP had to go through to finally get an at-large bid last year. SD's schedule is not even close to what CP's was both years they got shut out. I don't know how many OOC spots they have to fill, but if they want any shot at being considered for an at-large bid, it should look something like @UCD, @CP, @NAU, @San Diego State - not just one game against UCD

[coover]

Strength of schedule is huge for any school without an autobid. In 1997 Cal Poly was 10-1. The beat Saint Mary's, New Mexico State I-A, Northern Iowa, Montana State, Dayton and Sac State. Their only loss was to Liberty. They also beat UC Davis D-II at that time, D-II Western Montana, D-II Western New Mexico and Simon Fraser. The schedule was too weak.

In 2004 they were 9-2. They beat Idaho State, Montana State, South Dakota State (transitional), Southern Utah, Texas State, North Dakota State (transitional) Northern Colorado and Sac State. They also beat D-II Humbolt State. The only losses were to UC Davis (transitional) and Eastern Washington. Again no invite due to the schedule. And that one was pretty tough.

University of San Diego needs to schedule tougher I-AA opponents or just move up to the Great West.


They are in the Pioneer League, I-AA for sure, but a league that plays without scholarships. How Pioneed League teams compete with other I-AA competition, mostly schools with about 63 scholarships (the number may be wrong, but it is close) is amazing. How do they get the talent?

San Diego is a great no scholarship team. But West Coast I-AAs like Cal Poly, UC Davis, even Sacramento State, would kill them. Of course, there is another school in San Diego (with about 85 scholarships) that they just might be able to beat.

I wish you well, Torreros. Go Poly!

[Mustang Man]

One key number you forget that impacts all of the other numbers. Strength of schedule out of 241 teams, San Diego ranks 220 according to Sagarin.

Ouch.

All hail the Torreros! King of the cream puffs!

[*****]

Ouch.
All hail the Torreros! King of the cream puffs!Keep following the GPI through the season.

2005... Final Regular Season Gridiron Power Index (GPI), Appalachian State No. 1
I-AA.org
http://www.i-aa.org/article.asp?articleid=74448
Rank Total Team Conf W L
43 37.44 San Diego Pioneer 11 1

This year may be much different.

[poly51]

They are in the Pioneer League, I-AA for sure, but a league that plays without scholarships. How Pioneed League teams compete with other I-AA competition, mostly schools with about 63 scholarships (the number may be wrong, but it is close) is amazing. How do they get the talent?

San Diego is a great no scholarship team. But West Coast I-AAs like Cal Poly, UC Davis, even Sacramento State, would kill them. Of course, there is another school in San Diego (with about 85 scholarships) that they just might be able to beat.

I wish you well, Torreros. Go Poly!
We will find out just how good that other team in San Diego with 85 scholarships is in about 3 weeks.

[Torero Tradition]

Then maybe you can compare the two Diego's... especially if you play us in the playoffs. xlolx

[Gordon Shumway]

They are in the Pioneer League, I-AA for sure, but a league that plays without scholarships. How Pioneed League teams compete with other I-AA competition, mostly schools with about 63 scholarships (the number may be wrong, but it is close) is amazing. How do they get the talent?
San Diego is a great no scholarship team. But West Coast I-AAs like Cal Poly, UC Davis, even Sacramento State, would kill them. Of course, there is another school in San Diego (with about 85 scholarships) that they just might be able to beat.

I wish you well, Torreros. Go Poly!

That is a very good question, and I have asked myself the same thing many times. I believe what it comes down to is that it is crazy to equate "no scholarships" to a belief everyone on the football team is paying their own way. 69% of the student body at USD gets some form of scholarship assistance. I don't think it would be hard to conclude that the football team, at a minimum, gets the same aid profile as the general student body. Not having pure "athletic" scholarships would certainly shrink the available pool of talent, but there is more than one way to skin a cat when it comes to financial aid.

[Torero Tradition]

Gordon good points. Not sure I have the answers, we can not offer athletic aid in the sport of football. Football players are just like any other student in that they can earn their own merit scholarships and need based aid. I think USD is around $40,000 a year (all expenses) etc. to attend per year.

[Maverick]

The Ivy League doesn't have athletic scholarships either does it? Their athletes get aid packages just like the rest of the student body. Yeah, that is what I hear. Not what I believe, but it sure as hell is what I hear. A financial aid package controlled by the institution part of which is related to athletic ability is countable aid even if it is not a "scholarship" by NCAA rules. If it is coincidence that a large number of student-athletes qualify for financial aid packages that resemble scholarships but are not related to athletic ability then they don't count. I figure with all the high-minded members of the business community that come from the Ivies that they can figure out how to do it. I mean after all it can be any harder than some of the financial and legal ledgerdemain that is corporate business in American.

[poly51]

Then maybe you can compare the two Diego's... especially if you play us in the playoffs. xlolx
Why don't you just schedule us in the regular season down the road? But wait, that might hurt our strength of schedule. Oh hell, Poly would probably schedule you anyway. You know, anybody, anyplace, anytime. Or anywhere or anyone. Whatever it is.

[ucdtim17]

I don't know many black young men out of Oakland Tech HS that can afford $30k/yr for USD. I'd bet Johnson is paying the same he'd be paying if he got a full ride to San Diego State - nothing. The whole "non-schollie" thing is a little misleading

[coover]

Why don't you just schedule us in the regular season down the road? But wait, that might hurt our strength of schedule. Oh hell, Poly would probably schedule you anyway. You know, anybody, anyplace, anytime. Or anywhere or anyone. Whatever it is.

Heck, I'd like to see Poly schedule a game with anybody south of San Luis Obispo. Even SLO is a 5 to 6 hour drive for me, so anyplace closer is great. But wait ... all the teams in SoCal (except for San Diego St. and USD) are too good for little ole SLO (do you see USC or UCLA scheduling Poly?) or Division III (Redlands, Occidental, or Whittier College, anybody?). And off the top of my head, I don't think there are any Division II football schools left in SoCal.

[Death Dealer]

Wow! Give it a rest. How many threads about USD does this make? Does anyone know...could it be a record # for one topic?

[PantherRob82]

it's gotta be a record. 1 loss and it all ends. :rotateh:

[AppGuy04]

it's gotta be a record. 1 loss and it all ends. :rotateh:

waiting for a Hamptonesque performancexsmileyclapx

[MrTitleist]

The Ivy League doesn't have athletic scholarships either does it? Their athletes get aid packages just like the rest of the student body. Yeah, that is what I hear. Not what I believe, but it sure as hell is what I hear. A financial aid package controlled by the institution part of which is related to athletic ability is countable aid even if it is not a "scholarship" by NCAA rules. If it is coincidence that a large number of student-athletes qualify for financial aid packages that resemble scholarships but are not related to athletic ability then they don't count. I figure with all the high-minded members of the business community that come from the Ivies that they can figure out how to do it. I mean after all it can be any harder than some of the financial and legal ledgerdemain that is corporate business in American.

Ivy's (Columbia at least) doesn't have athletic scholarships. A guy I went to HS with went to wrestle for them and has a tuition scholarship to make up for the lack of athletic scholarship. I forget the correct term, but his tuition and stuff is still taken care ofi.

[Torero Tradition]

Does it really matter if a school gives out scholarships or not... just because USD doesn't along with some other schools why does everyone label them as inferior?

[RadMann]

What's a Torero and why not change the name to English? ;)

[Torero Tradition]

What's a Torero and why not change the name to English? ;)

Spanish word for Bull-fighter... USD is modeled after a city in Alcala, Spain.
Amazing campus, you should check it out sometime... along with the football team... who wants video copies of games? xlolx

[Maverick]

You are not labeled inferior because you don't give scholarships. You are a member of an inferior conference that does not now nor is likely to have an AQ in the forseeable future. As to your current team, the membership in that conference will hold you back even if you win out before you play UCD. This not to the say they are not "good". Being good against weak competition does not make you a playoff contender. The numbers you have cited in the polls and GPI indicate you may be a playoff candidate but the lack of a quality schedule has derailed the playoff hopes of teams many times. The best you can hope for are two quality wins (one of would happen after the selection weekend). There is great doubt that you could even win that one after the selection weekend. All of that will override your sterling numbers against weak competition. The only real number will be zero, which will be the number of Pioneer teams in the playoffs this year.

[Torero Tradition]

You are not labeled inferior because you don't give scholarships. You are a member of an inferior conference that does not now nor is likely to have an AQ in the forseeable future. As to your current team, the membership in that conference will hold you back even if you win out before you play UCD. This not to the say they are not "good". Being good against weak competition does not make you a playoff contender. The numbers you have cited in the polls and GPI indicate you may be a playoff candidate but the lack of a quality schedule has derailed the playoff hopes of teams many times. The best you can hope for are two quality wins (one of would happen after the selection weekend). There is great doubt that you could even win that one after the selection weekend. All of that will override your sterling numbers against weak competition. The only real number will be zero, which will be the number of Pioneer teams in the playoffs this year.

Thanks Mav... even if i don't completely share your entire viewpoint :thumbsup:

[AppGuy04]

You are not labeled inferior because you don't give scholarships. You are a member of an inferior conference that does not now nor is likely to have an AQ in the forseeable future. As to your current team, the membership in that conference will hold you back even if you win out before you play UCD. This not to the say they are not "good". Being good against weak competition does not make you a playoff contender. The numbers you have cited in the polls and GPI indicate you may be a playoff candidate but the lack of a quality schedule has derailed the playoff hopes of teams many times. The best you can hope for are two quality wins (one of would happen after the selection weekend). There is great doubt that you could even win that one after the selection weekend. All of that will override your sterling numbers against weak competition. The only real number will be zero, which will be the number of Pioneer teams in the playoffs this year.
xsmileyclapx xsmileyclapx xsmileyclapx xsmileyclapx xsmileyclapx xsmileyclapx xsmileyclapx xsmileyclapx xsmileyclapx xsmileyclapx xsmileyclapx xsmileyclapx xsmileyclapx xsmileyclapx xsmileyclapx xsmileyclapx xsmileyclapx xsmileyclapx

[Torero Tradition]

Can you tell strength of schedule numbers by looking at the GPI?

[Maverick]

Still I admire your passion for your team and I certainly hope that they "throw some money" at the program and get them into the GWFC. That would be a win-win for the conference and USD. My only word of advice is don't let your passion make Torero bashin' an option. We already have one team supporter who has made such a mistake. I wont name any names but his initials are U assfan!

[AppGuy04]

Can you tell strength of schedule numbers by looking at the GPI?

go to http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/mainpage.jsp and look up toughest schedule

[YoUDeeMan]

In the last football game around here, I simply dominated my 2 1/2 year old son and his fluffy stuffed dog. The kid had heart and the dog held his ground, but I controlled the line of scrimmage, won big, and my stats look great! I'd have a shot to whup up on Montana, App St. and UNH, but I scheduled a non-conference game against my neighbor on the first playoff Saturday.

Did I mention my stats look good?

[Dallas Demon]

go to http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/mainpage.jsp and look up toughest schedule

Boy, the toughest schedule link is totally misleading. Notice that it shows ALL 7 Southland schools as having the WEAKEST schedule (with Montana St. and one other team thrown in). They're only counting wins/losses. With every Southland team playing 2-3 I-A (many BCS schools) with the exception of Texas St. (1 I-A BCS), it's no wonder the Southland schools are having issues in this report. Totally misleading.:eyebrow:

[AppGuy04]

Boy, the toughest schedule link is totally misleading. Notice that it shows ALL 7 Southland schools as having the WEAKEST schedule (with Montana St. and one other team thrown in). They're only counting wins/losses. With every Southland team playing 2-3 I-A (many BCS schools) with the exception of Texas St. (1 I-A BCS), it's no wonder the Southland schools are having issues in this report. Totally misleading.:eyebrow:

It also only uses games that have been played thus far, so that could change

[Tailbone]

In the last football game around here, I simply dominated my 2 1/2 year old son and his fluffy stuffed dog. The kid had heart and the dog held his ground, but I controlled the line of scrimmage, won big, and my stats look great! I'd have a shot to whup up on Montana, App St. and UNH, but I scheduled a non-conference game against my neighbor on the first playoff Saturday.

Did I mention my stats look good?

xsmileyclapx

[PantherRob82]

It also only uses games that have been played thus far, so that could change

you have a couple different options or sorting, including cumalitive or just future.

[AppGuy04]

you have a couple different options or sorting, including cumalitive or just future.

yeah, either way, its just wins and losses, so that doesn't really scratch the surface. It does give some indication though.

[Torero Tradition]

In the last football game around here, I simply dominated my 2 1/2 year old son and his fluffy stuffed dog. The kid had heart and the dog held his ground, but I controlled the line of scrimmage, won big, and my stats look great! I'd have a shot to whup up on Montana, App St. and UNH, but I scheduled a non-conference game against my neighbor on the first playoff Saturday.

Did I mention my stats look good?

While i understand your point... that is a dig on a lot of teams that are I-AA. I don't think USD is boasting about look what we did to "X" team, therefore we should get in. Our biggest win so far is probably Yale. The question about playoffs stems from the high rankings USD currently has and the likeyhood of them being undefeated. USD is not whining and complaining... and they certainly wouldn't if and when they are not selected.

[AppGuy04]

While i understand your point... that is a dig on a lot of teams that are I-AA. I don't think USD is boasting about look what we did to "X" team, therefore we should get in. Our biggest win so far is probably Yale. The question about playoffs stems from the high rankings USD currently has and the likeyhood of them being undefeated. USD is not whining and complaining... and they certainly wouldn't if and when they are not selected.

No, but you guys have created 1000000000000000 threads saying that if you go undefeated, you should be in the playoffs. And quite frankly, that is absolutely NOT true

[PantherRob82]

No, but you guys have created 1000000000000000 threads saying that if you go undefeated, you should be in the playoffs. And quite frankly, that is absolutely NOT true

off topic- when did ASU use that helmet?

[Torero Tradition]

No, but you guys have created 1000000000000000 threads saying that if you go undefeated, you should be in the playoffs. And quite frankly, that is absolutely NOT true

Seriously, where to people come up with this stuff... no one has said... "SHOULD" and "MUST" and it's a "LOCK", the threads have provided some in depth knowledge as to peoples perceptions of I-AA non scholarship football and the difficulty of making the playoffs. I believe the question is, could an undefeated Torero team who might be highly ranked this year make it in? Many of the posts of been discussing all facets of the difficulty.

[BigApp]

can't get enough of your love...