Hypothetical Ivy League Playoff Bid

[LUHawker]

With several teams in the Ivy League having excellent seasons thus far, it really is a shame that the league doesn't have a place in the postseason. That being said, there is no rule preventing the Selection Committee from offering a bid to the best team in the Ivy League. Granted, the presidents of the Ivy have voted to preclude the Ivy Champ, but what if the Selection Committ forced the presidents' hands by offering a bid. By doing so, it was elevate the playoff issue for the Ivy League schools and would probably generate a good bit of media attention. Don't you think there would be a clamoring among Harvard alums, for example, if a Harvard team was invited? The committee of course, would have to have a back-up team, but I think this would be a very interesting issue. Even if it didn't produce an Ivy participant this year, it may highlight the debate and maybe we'd see a change to their position. It would be very intriguing. I don't think the NCAA has the moxie to do it, but man would it create some waves.

[Pards Rule]

I agree - do it!!

[th0m]

In theory it does sound like a cunning plan. Thing is, will the NCAA ever have the 'balls' to do so? I'd love to play an Ivy, an opportunity you just don't get very often (aside from the PL).

[Lehigh Football Nation]

That's fine, as long as it's an at-large bid :p

[Pards Rule]

Affirmed LFN...

[carney2]

Let's see - bids go out on a Sunday, with the first game scheduled for 6 days later. This proposal says that an Ivy - or two - gets a bid and then all of I-AA sits around for a day or two or more holding their breath waiting for the lords of Cambridge or Nassau Street or West Philadelphia to hand down their decision(s). In the meantime some "backup" team or two or three is out there supposedly getting psyched and prepared for a game that they will probably - but may not - play. Absurd.

The Ivys have flat out stated that they do not wish to be invited to the dance and, by implication, if invited, they will not participate. It all seems oh so clear to me: forget about them and get on with the tournament. Oh yeah, would you like to be that "backup" team?

[LUHawker]

Let's see - bids go out on a Sunday, with the first game scheduled for 6 days later. This proposal says that an Ivy - or two - gets a bid and then all of I-AA sits around for a day or two or more holding their breath waiting for the lords of Cambridge or Nassau Street or West Philadelphia to hand down their decision(s). In the meantime some "backup" team or two or three is out there supposedly getting psyched and prepared for a game that they will probably - but may not - play. Absurd.

The Ivys have flat out stated that they do not wish to be invited to the dance and, by implication, if invited, they will not participate. It all seems oh so clear to me: forget about them and get on with the tournament. Oh yeah, would you like to be that "backup" team?

Hey, buddy, this is a HYPOTHETICAL. Of course there would be complicating factors, such as the short time frame, but you are missing the intent of the intent of the post. As your fellow LC posters note on the LC board, you really are a negative guy.

[AppGuy04]

If the Ivies, as a whole, do not want to play in the playoffs, then I say its a waste of time to even offer

[1Aneedsplayoffs]

Why dont they want to play in the playoffs? Is it because of Ivy league officials want the kids to stay in school? That is bull **** because they are allowed to play in the NCAA tournament...

[carney2]

Hey, buddy, this is a HYPOTHETICAL. Of course there would be complicating factors, such as the short time frame, but you are missing the intent of the intent of the post. As your fellow LC posters note on the LC board, you really are a negative guy.

All that you say is true,

but

the argument of this thread is still absurd.

[UNHFan99]

I once asked an old coach of mine who played QB at Dartmouth if he ever thought the IVY's would ever take part in the playoff's. He said that if they didnt let his team play in a bowl game forty years ago when they were ranked in the top 15 in all of college football then the IVY League will never do it. I think its too late for the IVY League to go back in their decision however long ago it was. They should have made the change when they officially joined the 1-AA ranks.

[MplsBison]

I think once the old guys in charge die off, the new guys will fix everything.

It may be too much to ask for them to hold a post season tournament in basketball, but I could see them in the football playoffs.

[LBPop]

While it would be fun to see this scenario play out, it really would be a non-starter. Even if the logistical problems that Carney2 mentions could be solved, there is the primary overriding factor that is at the root of this issue. The Ivy League does not care one little bit about what any of the inferior non-Ivy-League people (to them that is redundant) think about anything. In fact, I think they would enjoy saying "No" in the face of such an invitation.

[Torero Tradition]

I know a certain school in the PFL who would love to be invited. :)

[kardplayer]

I don't know who the Patriot League rep is to the committee this year, but I doubt that AD would want to be a part of "forcing the Ivies hands" and potentially fracturing the relationships with Ivy presidents. If that were to lead to a "no scheduling PL schools OOC" that would have a huge negative impact on the PL...

[carney2]

I think once the old guys in charge die off, the new guys will fix everything.

Don't bet on it. In IvyLand, tradition is always at the head of the parade.

LBPop has it pretty well surrounded and I will paraphrase: Don't expect the ancients to sully themselves by mixing with the hoi polloi anytime soon. These are, after all, the fathers of football and the argument that "they participate in other NCAA playoffs, so why not football" carries little weight with them. I have a theory on this:

In every other sport the NCAA tournament that the Ivys participate in is played at the top level. There are no As and AAs in basketball, soccer, field hockey, whatever. Harvard/Dartmouth/Brown is in the NCAA Div. I tournament. In football, however, the I-AA playoffs are somehow a second class event, a sideshow to the NCAA's big tent bowl extravaganza as contested in I-A. In the minds of the Ivys if they can't vie for the gold in the center ring with Notre Dame, Southern Cal, et al. as they did up to about 50 years ago, why bother? It is by their standards a lesser event, insignificant, and it therefore does not - and in their sheltered world, should not - matter to them.

The only way this gains any legs is if the ancient eight lose lots and lots of recruits because of it and it becomes an on the field embarrassment. No signs of it at this point. Anyway, how could you tell if they are on the wane? They play only 10 games: 7 against each other and most of the rest against teams in a league (the Patriot) that they set up just so they could knock it down. Don't be fooled by any "populist" uprisings as stated in Ivy student publications or athletic/alumni groups. An aristocracy does not respond to the rabble - even "our rabble." This aint gonna happen. They are holding their own just fine, thank you.

[Franks Tanks]

One old arguement that I have heard is that the snobbish Ivy's will not participate in the I-AA playoff is that they do want to associate with many of the schools on I-AA. In the basketball tourney for example they may play against UCLA or BC or Georgetown or other solid well known academic school. I have heard they feel it is beneath them to comepete againt poor Directional State U. Crazy but dont downplay this as also being a reason.

[ngineer]

One old arguement that I have heard is that the snobbish Ivy's will not participate in the I-AA playoff is that they do want to associate with many of the schools on I-AA. In the basketball tourney for example they may play against UCLA or BC or Georgetown or other solid well known academic school. I have heard they feel it is beneath them to comepete againt poor Directional State U. Crazy but dont downplay this as also being a reason.

They certainly 'lowered' themselves back in 1979 or so when Penn played Michigan State in the Final Four first round when Ervin Johnson was a Spartan...:D

[siugrad99]

SHUT IT WITH THE SD Talk

[PIRATETIZED1]

Originally posted by 1Aneedsplayoffs
Why dont they want to play in the playoffs? Is it because of Ivy league officials want the kids to stay in school? That is bull **** because they are allowed to play in the NCAA tournament...

True 'dat...!

How many $$$'s do ya' get for being in NCAA Tourney vs. the Div.I-AA Playoffs?
Easy math problem!!

PIRATETIZED :cool:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HAMPTON UNIVERSITY - “…Of Service To God and Our Nation…”

[Harvard Worship]

What really gets me is why Ivy League schools get to compete in playoffs in every other sport but not football? We go to the Hockey nat'l tourney every other year it seems. I think the Ivy presidents must have something against football. Maybe we should make one of the selection criteria for the new Harvard president "does not hypocritically hate football"...

[Pard4Life]

Hey, buddy, this is a HYPOTHETICAL. Of course there would be complicating factors, such as the short time frame, but you are missing the intent of the intent of the post. As your fellow LC posters note on the LC board, you really are a negative guy.

You would be surprise that carney brings the sunshine at times. :D

[Pard4Life]

With several teams in the Ivy League having excellent seasons thus far, it really is a shame that the league doesn't have a place in the postseason. That being said, there is no rule preventing the Selection Committee from offering a bid to the best team in the Ivy League. Granted, the presidents of the Ivy have voted to preclude the Ivy Champ, but what if the Selection Committ forced the presidents' hands by offering a bid. By doing so, it was elevate the playoff issue for the Ivy League schools and would probably generate a good bit of media attention. Don't you think there would be a clamoring among Harvard alums, for example, if a Harvard team was invited? The committee of course, would have to have a back-up team, but I think this would be a very interesting issue. Even if it didn't produce an Ivy participant this year, it may highlight the debate and maybe we'd see a change to their position. It would be very intriguing. I don't think the NCAA has the moxie to do it, but man would it create some waves.

Ivy League does not have a league rep on the playoff committee selection board... therefore I don't think they could even do that without a rep there..

[Pard4Life]

While it would be fun to see this scenario play out, it really would be a non-starter. Even if the logistical problems that Carney2 mentions could be solved, there is the primary overriding factor that is at the root of this issue. The Ivy League does not care one little bit about what any of the inferior non-Ivy-League people (to them that is redundant) think about anything. In fact, I think they would enjoy saying "No" in the face of such an invitation.

This is 13's arguement... a good one at that.

[Pard4Life]

One old arguement that I have heard is that the snobbish Ivy's will not participate in the I-AA playoff is that they do want to associate with many of the schools on I-AA. In the basketball tourney for example they may play against UCLA or BC or Georgetown or other solid well known academic school. I have heard they feel it is beneath them to comepete againt poor Directional State U. Crazy but dont downplay this as also being a reason.

Not necesarily true. Harvard will have no hesitation to play Bemidji St. or Colorado College in the NCAA ice hockey tourney... that is because it is the 'highest level of competition'.. as 13 noted... I-AA is not the highest level so they balk at the postesason.

[MplsBison]

Well then why don't they move up to I-A?

[carney2]

Well then why don't they move up to I-A?


They can't compete with mega-football as practiced at Ohio State, Texas, et al. - and they really don't want to get involved in big time college football. Here's the deal - and I fail to understand why so many on this board won't accept it:

They want to compete at the Division I level - and they do.

Within the memory of anyone drawing a breath today - and certianly not since the founding of the league after WWII - none of them have ever gotten involved in post-season football. It's their tradition. ("No games played after Harvard-Yale.") Traditions are very important in the Ivy League. In fact, after 9/11 the Ivys cancelled - did not reschedule - their games to be played on the following Saturday. Most felt that it was because the games would have to be scheduled after Harvard-Yale.

They have walled off their own little universe and are content to exist there. They consider it a special place.

They see no down side to what they are doing. Why is this so hard to understand? The Swiss want to be neutral. The Amish want to be left alone. The Ivys want to end their football season before Thanksgiving.

[arkstfan]

Well then why don't they move up to I-A?

Unless they change their philosophy they cannot meet the criteria. They don't award 200 grants-in-aid across all sports and will not award an average of 76.5 grants in football.

I am a big believer in the phrase "institutional decision", each should seek out the level they wish to be at. HOWEVER, I also believe that if a group of institutions wishes to avail itself of NCAA membership that part of membership is competing in NCAA sanctioned championships if eligible and selected and that conferences should not be permitted to pick and choose which championships they avail themselves of. There is just something wrong with the idea that a league makes sure to participate in the lucrative NCAA Men's Basketball Tournament but declines to participate in the Championship Subdivision Playoff.

[Pard4Life]

Unless they change their philosophy they cannot meet the criteria. They don't award 200 grants-in-aid across all sports and will not award an average of 76.5 grants in football.

I am a big believer in the phrase "institutional decision", each should seek out the level they wish to be at. HOWEVER, I also believe that if a group of institutions wishes to avail itself of NCAA membership that part of membership is competing in NCAA sanctioned championships if eligible and selected and that conferences should not be permitted to pick and choose which championships they avail themselves of. There is just something wrong with the idea that a league makes sure to participate in the lucrative NCAA Men's Basketball Tournament but declines to participate in the Championship Subdivision Playoff.

The funny thing is they can all easily afford it and build/maintain 60,000 seat facilities.

[arkstfan]

The funny thing is they can all easily afford it and build/maintain 60,000 seat facilities.
Yeah they can afford it, but its not who they want to be.

I give their leadership credit though, they saw where intercollegiate athletics were headed and opted to not follow along.