ODU football to start by Fall 2009!

[henfan]

http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories/story.cfm?story=87778&ran=203045&tref=po

Congratulations to ODU. Terrific news for the CAA!

[89Hen]

:hurray: :beerchug: :hyped:

Can't wait too start kicking their arses!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The consultant’s report was one of several prerequisites -- or “triggers” — Runte outlined Tuesday.

Others:

The university must have received pledges totaling $8 million by June 1, 2006.

...

By December, the city of Norfolk must make a commitment to ODU in terms of land for a practice facility for football and softball facilities.

...

Tickets would be priced at $20 each, with projected paid attendance of 6,000. Students wouldn’t have to pay for tickets, but would support football and the other new programs by paying higher activity fees. Those fees would increase gradually over three years and in the end total $7 per credit hour. For a student taking 15 hours of coursework a semester, the addition fee would amount to $210.

...

ODU would eventually distribute 63 football scholarships and compete at the I-AA level within the Colonial Athletic Association, its current conference...

To comply with Title IX, ODU’s plan calls for the addition of women’s crew in 2007, women’s softball in 2009 and women’s volleyball in 2015, along with adding funding to its current women’s programs.


Good for them, but to be clear, that means - they need $8 million dollars in donations, new facilities, higher activity fees, more money for Title IX programs, 63 schollies... wonder what the *real* cost is? I don't know if they need to spruce up the old field too. Sounds like a pretty high cost.

And that's not including what in Sam Hill the CAA will do with 13 teams... maybe boot Richmond out? Cut UMass loose? Hope URI goes to the NEC?

[bluehenbillk]

You can count on the CAA not having more than 12 schools.

[WMTribe90]

Wow, VA is becoming a hotbed of I-AA football. VA could form its own conference and I think it be one of the better ones in the country. A little top heavy, but not bad.

VAC Virginia Athletic Conference:

1) WM
2) JMU
3) UR
4) Hampton
5) Liberty
6) VMI
7) Norfolk St.
8) ODU (2009)
9) GMU (?)

Happy for ODU, not so happy about possible increased competition for in-state recruits.

[henfan]

It is a high cost, LFN, but obviously ODU thinks it'll be worth it. Let the fund-raising begin.

I'm also in the camp who doesn't believe we'll ever see 13 or more teams in the CAA FB league. Interesting decisions may lie ahead for George Mason, Georgia State, UMaine, UNH, UMass, URI, Nova and Richmond.

[Hansel]

Always good to see schools adding FB :)

[89Hen]

VAC Virginia Athletic Conference
I was thinking the 'Virginia Athletic Group' or VAG for short.

[Go...gate]

I can't see that; I think they would look to hook up with the Patriot League, as might Villanova and Maine (IMHO, UMASS is destined for Division 1-A or the equivalent, provided the State of Massachusetts is willing to come up with some funding.)

[Sly Fox]

I love the idea, WMtribe!

Seriously, what kind of repercussions will this have on the membership. Do you guys seriously think someone would have to go? I know ODU would have to go through a probationary period after they finally get a team on the field. So this is WAY down the road. But it does get one to thining.

[rokamortis]

As far as the 'triggers' - I would bet that most of these things are already aco****ed for. I'm sure they have private commitments for most of the 8 million already.

[ChickenMan]

Could the ODU decision possibly motivate a similar move by George Mason???

[justballn21]

I can't see that; I think they would look to hook up with the Patriot League, as might Villanova and Maine (IMHO, UMASS is destined for Division 1-A or the equivalent, provided the State of Massachusetts is willing to come up with some funding.)

I dont know if they'll try and hook up with the Patriot League. It looks like they're trying to stay in the same conference as their other sports teams, but don't quote me on that. I'm just not sure if Old Dominion is really a PL school.

[Husky Alum]

If I'm Maine and UNH, I start to sweat a bit.

URI Football is probably on life support now.

Nova and Richmond to the PL, perhaps??

We could see America East football as well...

URI
Maine
New Hampshire
Albany
Stony Brook
UMass (?) - If they don't go 1-A

Do a scheduling deal with the PL?

Who knows, let the speculation begin!!!

[blukeys]

I dont know if they'll try and hook up with the Patriot League. It looks like they're trying to stay in the same conference as their other sports teams, but don't quote me on that. I'm just not sure if Old Dominion is really a PL school.

They aren't and won't be. They are currently CAA and that is where they will be playing football.

[blukeys]

Could the ODU decision possibly motivate a similar move by George Mason???
Certainly, should be a consideration. They have enough students. GMU may have more Title IX considerations than ODU. (Adding softball and volleyball was probably on ODU's list anyway and of course they have a ready made conference.) I don't think they have a favorable facility situation.

[justballn21]

They aren't and won't be. They are currently CAA and that is where they will be playing football.

totally agree, and I think that one of the CAA members will have to leave to make room for Old Dominion. 12 is the max in that conference.

[blukeys]

If I'm Maine and UNH, I start to sweat a bit.

URI Football is probably on life support now.

Nova and Richmond to the PL, perhaps??

We could see America East football as well...

URI
Maine
New Hampshire
Albany
Stony Brook
UMass (?) - If they don't go 1-A

Do a scheduling deal with the PL?

Who knows, let the speculation begin!!!

If the PL allowed scholarships Nova and Richmond could go. Neither school wants to go the grant in aid route. Also, the PL would have to drop the rule not allowing graduate students to play in their 5th year. Brian Westbrook would not have gotten in his last year of eligibility if Nova had been in the PL.

It would be tough for Richmond to leave a conference with 3 other VA. Schools. Much will depend on how competitive Richmond becomes in the next few years.

[justballn21]

If the PL allowed scholarships Nova and Richmond could go. Neither school wants to go the grant in aid route. Also, the PL would have to drop the rule not allowing graduate students to play in their 5th year. Brian Westbrook would not have gotten in his last year of eligibility if Nova had been in the PL.

It would be tough for Richmond to leave a conference with 3 other VA. Schools. Much will depend on how competitive Richmond becomes in the next few years.

Good point also just one correction. In the case of a medical redshirt, a player in the Pl can play out his fifth year. We have two such players, Steve Silva and our TE Luke Dugan. Also, at least this is my understanding, that the PL does not ban 5th year players who did not medical redshirt, but "strongly discourage" PL schools from utilizing the redshirt option.

[justballn21]

Im going to have to correct that again (I'm and idiot and can't read) and say that your right about graduate students not being able to play out their fifth year. Because Holy Cross is a purely undergraduate school, that rule does not apply to the afformentioned players.

[Husky Alum]

Hey Crusader guy, when is your school going to strap em up and play Northeastern again?

When we weren't full scholarship in the late 80s we were your personal whipping boys every year. Now that we are full scholarship and you're not, you've conveniently avoided us.

Let's re-start the rivalry!

[TheValleyRaider]

I dont know if they'll try and hook up with the Patriot League. It looks like they're trying to stay in the same conference as their other sports teams, but don't quote me on that. I'm just not sure if Old Dominion is really a PL school.

I think Go...gate was actually responding to the notion of URI in the PL, not ODU. Not that it matters because neither one will join. For better or worse, the PL seems to be content as a group of small, elite private colleges. Like blukeys said, Richmond and Villanova are the only teams that would possibly join the PL at some point, and certainly not before scholarships are allowed.

I have to say, I like Husky Alum's idea of the America East Conference, especially since we know Albany is trying to increase its competitive level, and there's nothing wrong, IMO, with another eastern conference. Of course, that'd be predicated on UMass staying I-AA and URI still having football, because otherwise, it probably wouldn't be worth it. It'll be interesting to see how this all this conference moving shapes out, when you factor in WKU's apparent move to the I-A MAC, UNC leaving the GWFC for the Big Sky, and, it seems, the possibility of George Mason football.

[Husky Alum]

Theoretically speaking 'Nova and Richmond could also be affiliates in the AE Football conference, if the CAA decided to go with "full membership" in its football conference in the near future, but they'd be geographic outliers. They make a better geographic fit with the PL.

The CAA has 7 "full" members now with ODU, and as said before, it's not a good number b/c you're staring at 5-6 OOC's. I think the affiliates stick until ODU is fully loaded with scholies, or the Big East divorce forces other conference affiliations.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I'll try to fully break down the ODU ramifications here.

ODU joins the CAA in 2009, making a potential CAA South Division that has Delaware, JMU, Richmond, Towson, Villanova, W&M, and now ODU.

The folks who run the CAA have the option of trying to fly with a 13-team league, which ends up as a nightmare for scheduling whether it is split into North and South divisions or as a straight league. It just doesn't seem feasible.

They could try to accelerate the development of a George Mason or Georgia State into a football member, making 14 teams, 7 in the North and 7 in the South. This could fly, though it would be tough without a championship game. The only rub is that it looks like the only school that really could be moved to the North would be Villanova, which would kill the Nova/UD rivalry game, so it would be strenuously objected by both schools.

The other questions are:
* Will a school try to make the jump to I-A? The only one with a real shot is UMass, and you could argue that there would be no better time for them than now - if they can secure a spot in the Big East in all sports. With UConn as their major rival, you've got to think they're dusting those I-A plans off now.
* Will the affiliate northern schools (and maybe some others) defect from the CAA and make - you guessed it - a brand-new A-10? They were associated with the A-10 before, and it benefitted them greatly. UMass, Maine, UNH, URI, Villanova... and maybe Richmond?... could maybe make a new A-10 lite. Add Albany and Stony Brook, and all of a sudden things get real interesting.
* How will Hofstra and Northeastern - the two schools with the most to lose with the CAA reverting to its southern roots - react to this? Will they cheerily stand pat? Or will they be rethinking their memberships in a southern league? Are they more comfortable with a new A-10 lite with many of their traditional foes from up north, sans Delaware? How much does the CAA care to keep them happy?

[Tribe4SF]

Whatever changes take place, the CAA is now in the drivers seat with regard to I-AA football on the East Coast. The weaker affiliate schools will see the handwriting on the wall and start looking at options. I think URI will be gone before ODU takes the stage, but I don't see any change in football membership for a few years.

[blukeys]

I'll try to fully break down the ODU ramifications here.

The folks who run the CAA have the option of trying to fly with a 13-team league, which ends up as a nightmare for scheduling whether it is split into North and South divisions or as a straight league. It just doesn't seem feasible.

They could try to accelerate the development of a George Mason or Georgia State into a football member, making 14 teams, 7 in the North and 7 in the South. This could fly, though it would be tough without a championship game. The only rub is that it looks like the only school that really could be moved to the North would be Villanova, which would kill the Nova/UD rivalry game, so it would be strenuously objected by both schools.

The other questions are:
* Will a school try to make the jump to I-A? The only one with a real shot is UMass, and you could argue that there would be no better time for them than now - if they can secure a spot in the Big East in all sports.
* Will the affiliate northern schools (and maybe some others) defect from the CAA and make - you guessed it - a brand-new A-10? They were associated with the A-10 before, and it benefitted them greatly. UMass, Maine, UNH, URI, Villanova... and maybe Richmond?... could maybe make a new A-10 lite. Add Albany and Stony Brook, and all of a sudden things get real interesting.
* How will Hofstra and Northeastern - the two schools with the most to lose with the CAA reverting to its southern roots - react to this?

You are speculating way too much LFN. ;) (I know It's fun). First there will be a lot of Saturdays between now and 2009 so a lot depends on the performance (financial and on the field) of all these teams.

An odd number league would make scheduling difficult but the A-10 has already solved difficult scheduling problems. Keep in mind that if a school drops out of the CAA/A-10 the addition of ODU gives the conference an even number. The addition of ODU gives some insurance regarding schools with problems such as URI.

GMU and GSU will certainly be encouraged to join the football family but the real impetus will have to come from the alumni and students of the schools. With today's announcement the pressure just got ratcheted up at GMU. GMU now has the distinction of being the Virginia school with the highest enrollment that does not have a football program.

Villanova could be moved to the North and keep their yearly rivalry with UD. The game would just be considered as OOC every other year. I think the intensity would still be there and the game would probably have playoff implications regardless of division setup. This would be a very solvable problem. The Philly press has been doing a better job of covering the UD - Nova rivalry in the last couple of years. It has been televised as a local COMCAST game regularly so it is in everyone's interest to keep this going.

If Umass is offered a big east slot they will probably make the move so they can lose more money in I-a than they lose in I-AA. Umass does not have the advantages that UConn had when they made the move. So far the Big East has not come knocking but with the problems that conference has anything is possible. Actually I think UD is the best suited to make a I-A move ( I believe the Big East would take them in no time if UD showed some interest) but they will play it safe. UD is very intent on keeping a relationship with W&M and JMU as they see these 2 Va. schools as natural partners in all sports. If I-AA does ever cease UD will make decisions in concert with these 2 schools.

A-10 lite? Possible but not likely especially in the short term. The affiliate members are there because the A-10 has risen to the top of I-AA. Therefore there is prestige associated with the conference. Stony Brook and Albany instead of Delaware and JMU? This does not work to the affiliate's advantage either from a prestige standpoint or financially.

Richmond is a real puzzle. It does not have the resources of a state supported institution (unlike most of the A-10/CAA) But, it has the longest rivalry in the South, a good tradition, and is in the middle of some great recruiting territory (not to mention they are in the home town of a daily newspaper that covers I-AA extremely well. Read the richmond Times-Dispatch during the season. They do a great job on all Virginia schools and they actually know that I-AA is not D-2)

Will the UR administration follow through on the commitments they made to Dave Clawson? Only time will tell. They basically screwed Jim Reid who is an excellent coach.

Hofstra and Northeastern will have no problems with the new arrangement. They are not affiliates. They are in the CAA in all sports. They will stay. They make a good fit especially in basketball and in Hofstra's case Lacrosse. Northeastern and Hofstra also put the CAA in 2 major northeast media markets, New England and New York. This ties into the reason that the A-10 was failing it's football schools.

Hofstra looked for years for a conference affiliation especially in football. They are not going anywhere. Northeastern extends the CAA footprint into another major media market and is now associated with schools whose student profile is similar to their own. I don't believe there will be that much that needs to be done to keep these schools happy. Especially Hofstra.

The CAA needs to now fulfill the promise they made to really promote and brand CAA football. If these guys treat football the way Linda Bruno did then any negative fallout is possible. If the CAA takes advantage of the fact that they have representatives in almost all of the Major East Coast Media Markets then they will raise the the reputation of the league and, Hopefully, all of I-AA. If they do this even the "12 year old kid in Kansas" will know that I-AA offers quality football.

[justballn21]

Hey Crusader guy, when is your school going to strap em up and play Northeastern again?

When we weren't full scholarship in the late 80s we were your personal whipping boys every year. Now that we are full scholarship and you're not, you've conveniently avoided us.

Let's re-start the rivalry!

Husky I relish a challenge and would love to play you guys. And that whole 80's thing was pretty much the glory days of HC. Gordie Lauchbaum being in the Heisman race is defeinitely a staple of the football tradition at HC. I'd love to play Northeastern though. It's be a fun game.

[Go...gate]

Just Ballin', you are right; I wan't clear and I'm sorry. No question ODU will be in the CAA; my thought was that URI, Maine or Nova might end up in the Patriot League. Also, can't see Richmond going to Patriot given this development; CAA now makes even more sense for them.

[Libertine]

It would be tough for Richmond to leave a conference with 3 other VA. Schools. Much will depend on how competitive Richmond becomes in the next few years.

What timing. A friend of mine in the Big South commissioner's office passed me a copy of a fax sent from Big South commissioner Kyle Kallander to the AD at U of Richmond.
It is a written invitation for UR to "pretty please with sugar on top" join the Big South conference. In exchange for UR's entry, the Big South will:

* ensure that all conference games involving UR will be played in Richmond
* free Shealey's BBQ (Leesville SC, tell your friends) delivered every Wednesday for all UR athletic department personnel
* rename the conference from Big South to "Richmond and the Spiderettes"
* all future press conferences will begin with the UR fight song and only questions about Richmond will be entertained
* barring any playoff appearances, each football season will culminate with the Richmond Classic, featuring UR versus the scout team of "whichever conference member they damn well feel like playing" at a time and place chosen jointly by the UR administration and the Acapulco Bourd of Tourism
* during the annual conference media day golf outing, Dave Clawson will be allowed to tee up 30 yards from the pin. All other conference coaches will tee up from the box and have their clubs replaced with spent flourescent tube lights

[Lehigh Football Nation]

What timing. A friend of mine in the Big South commissioner's office passed me a copy of a fax sent from Big South commissioner Kyle Kallander to the AD at U of Richmond.
It is a written invitation for UR to "pretty please with sugar on top" join the Big South conference....

I'm assuming there's a grain of truth to this. I can buy the free BBQ, but Clawson teeing up 30 yards closer to the pin? That's ridiculous. ;)

This does bring up another topic. Do 4 Virginia schools belong in the same conference? As a PL fan, I sometimes wonder if 4 Pennsylvania schools would be too many should Villanova join. (Lehigh, Lafayette, Bucknell, Villanova).

If Richmond is weighing its options, they must be: Patriot Membership, Big South Membership, or become a part of a new A-10 "lite" with the rest of the northern schools. Every option is problematic one way or another.

Big South doesn't have an autobid, and for the immediate future doesn't look like they will have one. Coastal is thinking they might fly the coop, which makes the prospects of an autobid even more remote.

A-10 "lite" would only happen if all the CAA associate members would choose to do what they chose not to do last year - break off and form their own league (and also get a new autobid). I don't think UR would choose to be in a league with 2 road games wayyy up north every year (UNH, Maine, URI, UMass), but it could happen.

Patriot membership makes the most sense. There's no natural rivalry, but Bucknell and Georgetown aren't very far, and Lehigh and Lafayette are bus trips. Colgate, Fordham and Holy Cross are big trips, but not as bad as the A-10 "lite" schedule. Plus, there's that fact that they are a playoff conference, and the other schools are not guaranteed to be in the playoffs.

You'd lose UR/W&M, but if they're kicked out of the CAA it would be finished as a league game anyway. Whatever option they choose, they could still arrange it as a yearly OOC anyway, and any of the 3 leagues would be wide open in regards to putting it together.

UR will have to look long and hard again at PL membership methinks. Scholastically and competitively they fit, and it just might be their best option involving the potential for playoffs, with the Big South in flux and "A-10 lite" no guarantee to ever happen.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

A-10 lite? Possible but not likely especially in the short term. The affiliate members are there because the A-10 has risen to the top of I-AA. Therefore there is prestige associated with the conference. Stony Brook and Albany instead of Delaware and JMU? This does not work to the affiliate's advantage either from a prestige standpoint or financially.

...

The CAA needs to now fulfill the promise they made to really promote and brand CAA football. If these guys treat football the way Linda Bruno did then any negative fallout is possible. If the CAA takes advantage of the fact that they have representatives in almost all of the Major East Coast Media Markets then they will raise the the reputation of the league and, Hopefully, all of I-AA. If they do this even the "12 year old kid in Kansas" will know that I-AA offers quality football.

You mean, somebody reads all my ranting posts? I should start a blog or something! :eek: ;)

True that Albany and Stony Brook are not Delaware (nobody could be) and JMU. But maybe with time and $$, maybe they could be at the level of a JMU. Most notably Albany has been making a commitment to better football and wanting to get out of low-scholarship.

If A-10 "lite" happens, they would have to rebuild a conference from the ground up. I don't know if they're interested in restarting football, but after the old A-10 was so successful for them, why not? In my mind, the A-10 has the prestige already, with or without Albany and Stony Brook.

With a core of UMass, Maine, UNH, URI and maybe Villanova - that's a pretty darned good foundation for a 63 scholly league! Again, add Albany and Stony Brook and you have a league from Pennsylvania to Maine. There could be other NEC schools that may be interested in 63 scholarship ball (Central Connecticut St.?), so it is intriguing.

[Sly Fox]

LFN - So you don't believe that if Richmond were to join the Big South we couldn't land an automatic bid? What if SC State were to join as well?

At that point, I don't think Coastal would be as anxious to jump ship.

PS - If BBQ is what it takes to get the Spiders to join the Big South, we can up the ante with some real Texas barbecue.

[colgate13]

Late to the party, but interesting stuff nonetheless...

I can't help but recall a Fordham poster that is adamant that they will be invited into the CAA to play football. Would the CAA ever exist as a 14 team league?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

LFN - So you don't believe that if Richmond were to join the Big South we couldn't land an automatic bid? What if SC State were to join as well?

At that point, I don't think Coastal would be as anxious to jump ship.

PS - If BBQ is what it takes to get the Spiders to join the Big South, we can up the ante with some real Texas barbecue.

I think the Big South could definitely land an auto bid - but it's not a guaranteed thing. I'm saying that if Richmond joined the PL there's a 100% chance of an autobid since the PL already has one, whereas the Big South would need to get one (and any A-10 "lite" conference).

For 2007, UR was debating whether to join the CAA in football, while UR management was floating the option of joining the PL instead, causing an uproar on campus. To be fair, UR gave as a reason cost-containment for joining the PL, which was misleading at best (the best PL schools pay just about as much on football as CAA schools). But the PL was misrepresented as the end of good football for UR. Like any conference, your team will be only as good as the effort you put into your program. If you don't put any effort into building it, you'll suck as a member of the CAA, as an independent, or anywhere you play.

Your chance of landing UR depends on the perception of competition in the Big South conference. Unfortunately until some Big South gets some big scalps from CAA or Patriot schools, I think UR fans will see it again as the beginning of the end of UR football. The lack of a playoff bid further reinforces this myth.

[The Gadfly]

At that point, I don't think Coastal would be as anxious to jump ship.

The only reason Coastal is jumping ship is FOOTBALL ONLY. I can see Coastal Carolina staying if some decent teams came rolling in like SC State, Richmond, or even Delaware State (football only). But I don't see the big wigs who run the Big South doing a whole lot about the situation. It's as if they really don't give a rat's ass whether we go or not. Oh well... :cool:

If ODU was added to the CAA mix in 2009, wouldn't that leave 9 teams in all? Hell, I can wait four more years if the CAA wants to make it an even 10 by adding Coastal. :D

[henfan]

If ODU was added to the CAA mix in 2009, wouldn't that leave 9 teams in all? Hell, I can wait four more years if the CAA wants to make it an even 10 by adding Coastal.

Assuming no teams drop off, ODU would be the 13th team in the CAA Football League. 7 of those schools would be full CAA members.

[The Gadfly]

Odd #s all around. ;)

[blukeys]

True that Albany and Stony Brook are not Delaware (nobody could be)

Ahh Yes, that is so True!! ;) ;) :D

[bluehenbillk]

Don't leave Lehigh out of the Stony Brook/Albany mix.

Damn I can't wait till September 10th.

[youwouldno]

If UR was going to join another conference, why would the Big South even be on the radar? The SoCon would be a much better fit and the conference would almost certainly let them in given their overall athletic strength. Though GSU & UTC wouldn't like it.

[Libertine]

If UR was going to join another conference, why would the Big South even be on the radar? The SoCon would be a much better fit and the conference would almost certainly let them in given their overall athletic strength. Though GSU & UTC wouldn't like it.
The Big South reference was a joke. The only way Richmond joins the Big South is if they leave the CAA and then get pissy with the SoCon and Patriot Leagues.

[89Hen]

They don't. Land is entirely too rare and too expensive in Fairfax County for them too do the type of construction that would be needed to build a I-AA stadium facility.
Not true at all IMO. They could EASILY put enough stands around their current field to accomodate what they need. I'd picture it looking a lot like W&M, or Elon or Coastal.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Not true at all IMO. They could EASILY put enough stands around their current field to accomodate what they need. I'd picture it looking a lot like W&M, or Elon or Coastal.

That's right, my understanding is that they have an existing field that would need to be renovated. They do, however, need to have training/weight facilities in place, which would require land.

I have to admit, ODU has a pretty good plan for I-AA, and they seem serious. After doing my best to punch holes, I didn't see anything glaringly wrong or not thought out.

[89Hen]

That's right, my understanding is that they have an existing field that would need to be renovated. They do, however, need to have training/weight facilities in place, which would require land.
The existing stadium is across a busy road from the main campus. There is a field house, two practice fields, a track around the football field and a baseball diamond there right now. They could easily convert the field house into what they need. They play bball in the Patriot Center which is on the main campus side and seat upwards of 12K.

[henfan]

George Mason Stadium:
http://graphics.fansonly.com/photos/schools/gema/nonsport/facilities/mason-stadium-300wide.jpg