Coaches Poll Week 9

[melloware13]

1. North Dakota State
2. Eastern Illinois
3. Coastal Carolina
4. Eastern Washington
5. Montana State
6. Towson
7. McNeese State
8. Fordham
9. Sam Houston State
10. Youngstown State
11. Maine
12. Bethune-Cookman
13. Montana
14. Northern Arizona
15. Central Arkansas
16. Wofford
17. New Hampshire
18. Charleston Southern
19. Samford
20. South Dakota State
21. Lehigh
22. Villanova
23. James Madison
24. Tennessee State
25. Southeastern Louisiana

ORV: Northern Iowa 61, Chattanooga 35, Princeton 33, Jacksonville State 32, William and Mary 31, Delaware 17, Harvard 9, Alcorn State 5, Southern Utah 4, Southern Illinois 1

[FargoBison]

Poll is a complete joke.

Seriously I don't even know where to start when ripping it.

[dbackjon]

Poll is a complete joke.

Seriously I don't even know where to start when ripping it.

Agreed.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Who sponsors this one? Can they just stop?

[msupokes1]

I'll be honest, I don't see it as being any worse than AGS. Most voters in AGS don't know anything about the other teams.

[gotts]

I'll be honest, I don't see it as being any worse than AGS. Most voters in AGS don't know anything about the other teams.

You serious, Clark?

[citdog]

I'll be honest, I don't see it as being any worse than AGS. Most voters in AGS don't know anything about the other teams.


the AGS poll has been the best of the lot for YEARS. 9 out of 10 at larges picked correctly last season. you should really start paying attention.

[FargoBison]

I'll be honest, I don't see it as being any worse than AGS. Most voters in AGS don't know anything about the other teams.

http://commonsenseatheism.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/explanation-i-demand-one.png

[mainejeff]

I wonder if Maine goes 14-1 and wins the National Championship if they'll make the Coaches Top 10 in the final poll.....???

[msupokes1]

I am definitely serious. There is so much east coast bias in the AGS poll. If a team with the resume of Fordham came from the Big Sky there is no way they sniff the top 5.

[dbackjon]

I wonder if Maine goes 14-1 and wins the National Championship if they'll make the Coaches Top 10 in the final poll.....???

No

[FargoBison]

I am definitely serious. There is so much east coast bias in the AGS poll. If a team with the resume of Fordham came from the Big Sky there is no way they sniff the top 5.

I have Fordham in my top 5 and honestly they are worthy of being ranked there.

[msupokes1]

I have Fordham in my top 5 and honestly they are worthy of being ranked there.

Based on what? I just can't see it. They have the win over Villanova, which is decent. Then they have nothing. Temple is terrible and it was a close game. Lehigh is all they got. I just don't see it. I do have them in my top 10, I just cant see them top 5.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Based on what? I just can't see it. They have the win over Villanova, which is decent. Then they have nothing. Temple is terrible and it was a close game. Lehigh is all they got. I just don't see it. I do have them in my top 10, I just cant see them top 5.

Undefeated with FBS win. That is plenty good enough. FBS is FBS.

[thebootfitter]

I am definitely serious. There is so much east coast bias in the AGS poll. If a team with the resume of Fordham came from the Big Sky there is no way they sniff the top 5.
Ursus has addressed this many times. East Coast bias doesn't exist in the AGS poll. The human mind is funny like that... It sees what it wants to see. But when you look at the actual data will will see that you are making something up where nothing exists.

[msupokes1]

I have Fordham in my top 5 and honestly they are worthy of being ranked there.

What exactly makes them worthy of being ranked there? That is what I am trying to understand. I am not going to say you are wrong I just don't see it. I had a lot of trouble with my poll this week. There are a lot of teams that I just am not understanding the love for.

[msupokes1]

Ursus has addressed this many times. East Coast bias doesn't exist in the AGS poll. The human mind is funny like that... It sees what it wants to see. But when you look at the actual data will will see that you are making something up where nothing exists.

I am not buying it.

[citdog]

Ursus has addressed this many times. East Coast bias doesn't exist in the AGS poll. The human mind is funny like that... It sees what it wants to see. But when you look at the actual data will will see that you are making something up where nothing exists.

there was even a thread about it a few weeks ago. you could search for it even

[citdog]

Go back and look at LFN's poll on the AGS poll thread and then tell me there is no ECB. I am not buying it.


lfn is NOT a good barometer for anything other than trying his best to make the patsy SEEM like a good football conference.

he FAILS at that too.

[FargoBison]

Based on what? I just can't see it. They have the win over Villanova, which is decent. Then they have nothing. Temple is terrible and it was a close game. Lehigh is all they got. I just don't see it. I do have them in my top 10, I just cant see them top 5.

Lehigh has turned into a mess but they were decent when Fordham beat them. Nova is a solid team. Temple is terrible but they are an FBS so that amounts in my view to another top 25 FCS win. They are undefeated and in my opinion made an attempt of putting together a solid non-conference schedule.

With that said I did drop Fordham from #3 to #5 this week. EWU and Maine moved past them....if McNeese wins out they'll move ahead of Fordham as well.

[msupokes1]

lfn is NOT a good barometer for anything other than trying his best to make the patsy SEEM like a good football conference.

he FAILS at that too.

That is my point. There are quite a few that fail. A lot of us base our polls on who our team has played. I know that McNeese played Sam Houston better than EWU did therefore to me McNeese must be better. Looking at a lot of peoples polls that's how they do it too. All of the Lehigh fans have Fordham significantly higher than anyone else.

[thebootfitter]

I am not buying it.
I'm not trying to convince you of anything. If you're intellectually honest enough with yourself, then you can give the topic due diligence. If not, then feel free to continue to base your opinion on limited anecdotal evidence.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

I am definitely serious. There is so much east coast bias in the AGS poll. If a team with the resume of Fordham came from the Big Sky there is no way they sniff the top 5.

I have Fordham at #5 and McNeese at #6 in my poll, and the resumes look pretty similar. Wins over bad FBS teams (Temple and USF are pretty equivalent), some cupcake wins (PL teams and Ivies for Fordham, a SWAC team a DII, and Weber for McNeese), and some solid wins ('Nova and Lehigh for Fordham, SHSU and UCA for McNeese). The big difference is that Fordham is still undefeated, while McNeese dropped one to UNI.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I have Fordham at #5 and McNeese at #6 in my poll, and the resumes look pretty similar. Wins over bad FBS teams (Temple and USF are pretty equivalent), some cupcake wins (PL teams and Ivies for Fordham, a SWAC team a DII, and Weber for McNeese), and some solid wins ('Nova and Lehigh for Fordham, SHSU and UCA for McNeese). The big difference is that Fordham is still undefeated, while McNeese dropped one to UNI.

In spectacular fashion.

[JMUNJ08]

Isn't their the perception to East Coast bias because there are WAY more teams in the East? I think with everything we have now that our AGS folks are well versed in those teams that apparently exist west of the Mississippi...

Fordham has been VERY good this year. I would feel safe to say everyone has them in the Top 10 at this point. Really, behind NDSU, you can move around the next 9 teams and have a legitimate reason. But ultimately, they deserve to be there and will prove it in the playoffs or not.

[msupokes1]

I have Fordham at #5 and McNeese at #6 in my poll, and the resumes look pretty similar. Wins over bad FBS teams (Temple and USF are pretty equivalent), some cupcake wins (PL teams and Ivies for Fordham, a SWAC team a DII, and Weber for McNeese), and some solid wins ('Nova and Lehigh for Fordham, SHSU and UCA for McNeese). The big difference is that Fordham is still undefeated, while McNeese dropped one to UNI.

Don't bring McNeese into this. I am not arguing where they sit. My argument is why is everyone so high on Fordham. I just don't see it. Yes our FBS opponents are similarly bad but we won ours by 32 they won by 1.

[ngineer]

I am definitely serious. There is so much east coast bias in the AGS poll. If a team with the resume of Fordham came from the Big Sky there is no way they sniff the top 5.

East Coast Bias? I think the geographical distribution is fairly representative of where the top teams are at the moment. Keep in mind, there a ton more schools in the East Coast than elsewhere, so with the percentages, you are going to have more 'top teams'. Also, not sure if you include the southern schools as 'east coast' since some view the east coast schools, in terms of football conferences, those in the mid-atlantic and north, with the SoCon, Big South. Certainly if throw those two conferences in the discussion there will be more 'east coast' representation because there are alot more quality schools playing tough schedules every week.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

Don't bring McNeese into this. I am not arguing where they sit. My argument is why is everyone so high on Fordham. I just don't see it. Yes our FBS opponents are similarly bad but we won ours by 32 they won by 1.

FBS upsets are also easier in the first week. Where do you think Fordham should be? Who's ranked below them in the AGS poll that you think should be above? I think they're a bit high in the AGS poll, I have NDSU, EIU, Towson and Maine all above them.

[dbackjon]

That is my point. There are quite a few that fail. A lot of us base our polls on who our team has played. I know that McNeese played Sam Houston better than EWU did therefore to me McNeese must be better. Looking at a lot of peoples polls that's how they do it too. All of the Lehigh fans have Fordham significantly higher than anyone else.

So how do you explain Montana higher than NAU up until this week?

There is a school bias - traditional powers get rated higher than they should.

[msupokes1]

FBS upsets are also easier in the first week. Where do you think Fordham should be? Who's ranked below them in the AGS poll that you think should be above? I think they're a bit high in the AGS poll, I have NDSU, EIU, Towson and Maine all above them.

I have them at 7. I have NDSU, EIU, Maine, Towson, McNeese, and Youngstown State ahead. I am not particularly proud of my poll. I will be the first to admit that I give a little extra weight to the so called power conferences.

[msupokes1]

So how do you explain Montana higher than NAU up until this week?

There is a school bias - traditional powers get rated higher than they should.

NAU was higher in my poll than Montana.

[Sammy94]

xlolx He said Lehigh was a solid win.

[tribe_pride]

I am definitely serious. There is so much east coast bias in the AGS poll. If a team with the resume of Fordham came from the Big Sky there is no way they sniff the top 5.

6 of the top 10 and 9 or so of the top 15 in AGS are not eastern teams (not sure specifically how you are defining east). And there are more teams in FCS in the East than outside of the East.

Can you make arguments against where an individual team is here and there? Sure but not as a whole to say there is an ECB in the poll unless you are stating that the non-eastern teams are that much better than the eastern ones.

[msupokes1]

6 of the top 10 and 9 or so of the top 15 in AGS are not eastern teams (not sure specifically how you are defining east). And there are more teams in FCS in the East than outside of the East.

Can you make arguments against where an individual team is here and there? Sure but not as a whole to say there is an ECB in the poll unless you are stating that the non-eastern teams are that much better than the eastern ones.

ECB does not lie in where the teams is as much as it does where the voter is. There are certainly some great teams from the east coast. Definitely some teams that are worthy of top 5 rankings. There are those teams however that's resume does not warrant a top 5 ranking. Put the same resume on the a west coast team and they would not be ranked.

[andy7171]

I wonder if Maine goes 14-1 and wins the National Championship if they'll make the Coaches Top 10 in the final poll.....???

Fastest way for Maine to crack the top 10, have Fordham, SHSU and YSU lose. #8 spot guarenteed!

[dbackjon]

NAU was higher in my poll than Montana.

Has it been since NAU beat Montana? Or is this the first week?

[BlueHenSinfonian]

I have them at 7. I have NDSU, EIU, Maine, Towson, McNeese, and Youngstown State ahead. I am not particularly proud of my poll. I will be the first to admit that I give a little extra weight to the so called power conferences.

Your's isn't that different from mine, I have: NDSU, EIU, Towson, Maine, Fordham, McNeese, EWU, and Youngstown in that order. Between what you have an the official poll we're only talking about a few spots difference.

[tribe_pride]

ECB does not lie in where the teams is as much as it does where the voter is. There are certainly some great teams from the east coast. Definitely some teams that are worthy of top 5 rankings. There are those teams however that's resume does not warrant a top 5 ranking. Put the same resume on the a west coast team and they would not be ranked.

You just seemed to contradict yourself with the 2 partsI bolded.

I also don't really understand your 1st sentence (especially in this context) since you don't know where each voter is located unless they are one of the few who post their final polls on AGS.

What is your definition of East Coast Bias?

[msupokes1]

Has it been since NAU beat Montana? Or is this the first week?

NAU is a tough one for me. the fact that your average points scored is less than your average points given up is odd to me. Right after the Montana win I had yall ahead of them but then the loss to Mont. St changed that. The Big Sky is really confusing to me. EWU definitely has the best win, in my opinion, in all of FCS. But then they have the loss to SHSU, which isn't a bad loss but a loss anyway. Then you have MSU losing to SFA. I don't know what to think of the Big Sky.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

ECB does not lie in where the teams is as much as it does where the voter is.

You are mistaken and I've broken it down by how voters have teams ranked according to their conference affiliations a few different times now. If you want to reject reality I will stand by and watch you do so.

[msupokes1]

Thought about my wording after I posted and thought for sure someone would catch that. What I was trying to say is that you cannot just look at the poll and assume that just because there are as many west coast teams as there are east coast teams that there is no bias. All I am saying is there always seems to be an East Coast team that some of the Northeast voters like to vote in that in my opinion are just not worthy of that spot. There is the same situation with west coast voters but I do not believe there is as many so it does not effect the polls as much. I could be completely off base but it is just a feeling I have had about the poll for along time. I have no facts to back up my opinion. It is an opinion and that is it.

[JMUNJ08]

You are mistaken and I've broken it down by how voters have teams ranked according to their conference affiliations a few different times now. If you want to reject reality I will stand by and watch you do so.

xpopcornx

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Thought about my wording after I posted and thought for sure someone would catch that. What I was trying to say is that you cannot just look at the poll and assume that just because there are as many west coast teams as there are east coast teams that there is no bias. All I am saying is there always seems to be an East Coast team that some of the Northeast voters like to vote in that in my opinion are just not worthy of that spot. There is the same situation with west coast voters but I do not believe there is as many so it does not effect the polls as much. I could be completely off base but it is just a feeling I have had about the poll for along time. I have no facts to back up my opinion. It is an opinion and that is it.

Well I see what you are getting at but I can tell you that your feeling is not correct. Take any CAA team that you might think is overvalued. It is almost a certainty that you would think it is because of a great number of CAA voters overvaluing them correct?

It is not the case. When I've done these breakdowns in the past the people that are valuing the CAA lower are the CAA voters. It was also that way with BSC teams, PL, etc. I think the only two groups of conference voters which overvalued (in comparision to the whole poll) were the MVFC and SLC and that was only once in the three times I've broken it down and even then the position change usually one spot so really insignificant in other words.

I would have believed exactly as you do if I didn't see all the facts as I now can so I've done it a few times now to try and dispel that which is not true because if I did still believe that I'd like to know better.

That's what I'm trying to do for you here and it can either be taken or left on the table. You now have facts.xthumbsupx

[msupokes1]

I think the only two groups of conference voters which overvalued (in comparision to the whole poll) were the MVFC and SLC and that was only once in the three times I've broken it down and even then the position change usually one spot so really insignificant in other words.

Are you sure we were overvaluing and the East Coast people weren't undervalueing. xsmiley_wix

[caribbeanhen]

JMU should not be in the top 25, should be receiving less votes than Delaware

[Tribal]

Poll is a complete joke.

Seriously I don't even know where to start when ripping it.

Yep...simply cannot be overstated. A witch doctor could throw chicken bones with team names on them into a circle made of twigs and have a more reputable listing.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Are you sure we were overvaluing and the East Coast people weren't undervalueing. xsmiley_wix

No I am not. I put the reference point in quotes because of that. Either could be right at that point.

So, one of these back atcha.xsmiley_wix

[robsnotes4u]

Based on what? I just can't see it. They have the win over Villanova, which is decent. Then they have nothing. Temple is terrible and it was a close game. Lehigh is all they got. I just don't see it. I do have them in my top 10, I just cant see them top 5.

I have watched them play 2 or 3 games. Definitely top 5


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[msupokes1]

No I am not. I put the reference point in quotes because of that. Either could be right at that point.

So, one of these back atcha.xsmiley_wix

I will quit being a trouble maker. The AGS poll isn't too far off of what I have. I guess I just don't have as much love for some of the "weaker conference" teams. I will admit though that I have not seen most of these teams play. I did see Fordham play a half against Lehigh and must say that I was not impressed with either team but I know that it is hard to get a feeling watching any team for such a short time. I know that the ones who have only seen McNeese play against UNI were not impressed. Its hard to judge a team off of one game.

[Sam_Kats]

Polls, smolls.....it will all sort itself out.

[gotts]

Polls, smolls.....it will all sort itself out.

Yeah, someone will rise to take 2nd place :D

[Sam_Kats]

Any Given Saturday...

[dbackjon]

NAU is a tough one for me. the fact that your average points scored is less than your average points given up is odd to me. Right after the Montana win I had yall ahead of them but then the loss to Mont. St changed that. The Big Sky is really confusing to me. EWU definitely has the best win, in my opinion, in all of FCS. But then they have the loss to SHSU, which isn't a bad loss but a loss anyway. Then you have MSU losing to SFA. I don't know what to think of the Big Sky.

For one, take out the FBS game :)

Montana State played SFA without McGhee - completely different team with or without him.

[msupokes1]

For one, take out the FBS game :)

Montana State played SFA without McGhee - completely different team with or without him.

They still gave up 50 something points to them. To me it just seems like the Big Sky is a little down this year. Certainly there are some teams that could win a couple of games in the playoffs but overall just seems to be a down year. I could be way off since I haven't seen a lot of the teams play but just looking at results I just see it being down.

[Squealofthepig]

there was even a thread about it a few weeks ago. you could search for it even

Searching would interfere with the troll's confirmation bias.