NDSU recruiting in Nebraska

[MplsBison]

Nice article from Kolpack today: http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/416268/group/Sports/

A) I love that we're out of Texas. Good! Stay out of Arizona too. And California. And Florida. And any place that it doesn't snow during the winter.

B) I love the Nebraska connection!! A lot of really good, big, strong, "fast enough", hard-nosed midwestern boys that remind me a lot of Dakota and Minn/Wisc players. I don't know what it is about cold winters that hardens you, but it does.


I'd like to see the following every year:

3-4 players from NE
2-3 players from SD
2-3 players from ND
5-6 from MN
5-6 from WI

That's the winning formula **AT ANY LEVEL**.

And the thing that all of these states have in common is that they either only have one major B1G university in the state that for the most part does not recruit in-state players AND no other DI football teams in the state - or they're the Dakota schools where NDSU is the top program in the two state area.

[Twentysix]

I'm a fan of our Illinois players too... Ojuri...Walker...Mays...etc.

[Grizalltheway]

bisonville ------>

[Twentysix]

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FCS Discussion Button

[Bisonator]

bisonville ------>

I agree. Why post this here? Do we need to post every article from the local paper?? What is the relevance to other FCS fans???

[344Johnson]

Irrelevant to AGS. More suited for BV. Wish people knew the difference.

[Twentysix]

Eh that's a slippery argument.

Most non-polling/non-gameday thread stuff is about one specific team.

[Twentysix]

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?144857-Missouri-State-releases-new-turf-concepts

(http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?144857-Missouri-State-releases-new-turf-concepts)http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?144852-Lafayette-tries-to-set-a-Record

(http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?144857-Missouri-State-releases-new-turf-concepts)http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?144298-There-are-no-moral-victories-but-damn-WCU-almost-pulled-it-off

(http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?144857-Missouri-State-releases-new-turf-concepts)http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?144770-91-0-HS-FB-win-becomes-a-bullying-scandal


Granted the last one just has nothing to do with FCS football. And this is just from the first 20 non stickied threads.

The rest are polls, pickem's, triva, a gameday thread and 2 articles that could be interesting to a few teams, Grambling and Shakir Bell.

[Tubakat2014]

I agree. Why post this here? Do we need to post every article from the local paper?? What is the relevance to other FCS fans???

Though I agree with you, look at it like this.

It's taken back-to-back national championships and another half of an undefeated season for this kind of thing to be an issue. Many fan bases (including my own, regretfully) would likely become insufferable after just one championship. I'd say Bison fans have handled everything pretty well, all things considered. That said...


Nice article from Kolpack today: http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/416268/group/Sports/

A) I love that we're out of Texas. Good! Stay out of Arizona too. And California. And Florida. And any place that it doesn't snow during the winter.

B) I love the Nebraska connection!! A lot of really good, big, strong, "fast enough", hard-nosed midwestern boys that remind me a lot of Dakota and Minn/Wisc players. I don't know what it is about cold winters that hardens you, but it does.

Comments like these that imply superiority due to climate conditions don't do you any favors. Football players are football players no matter where they come from. Great players have come from Idaho, great players have come from Africa...

[Twentysix]

Though I agree with you, look at it like this.

It's taken back-to-back national championships and another half of an undefeated season for this kind of thing to be an issue. Many fan bases (including my own, regretfully) would likely become insufferable after just one championship. I'd say Bison fans have handled everything pretty well, all things considered. That said...



Comments like these that imply superiority due to climate conditions don't do you any favors. Football players are football players no matter where they come from. Great players have come from Idaho, great players have come from Africa...

It's not that they aren't good football players. It's that they leave North Dakota because they can't handle living in the winter. Cold sucks, and if you grew up in it its easier to deal with, at least that's the idea. His spin on it is stupid.

[FargoBison]

bisonville ------>

Agreed...

[Professor Chaos]

Comments like these that imply superiority due to climate conditions don't do you any favors. Football players are football players no matter where they come from. Great players have come from Idaho, great players have come from Africa...
I won't surmise what Mpls was trying to imply because it's likely completely different from my stance. But I agree that NDSU should spend more time in the upper Midwest and less, if any, time in places like Florida, Arizona, and Texas. It's not because I think players from the upper Midwest are better, it's just a proven scientific fact that they're more likely to stick with the program once they get here. NDSU has only been recruiting Arizona for the last few years but attrition rates are already terrible, I don't think that's just a coincidence. Texas has produced some of the best players NDSU has fielded in the last 10 years but for each stud there's been 2-3 washouts. It's all about minimizing attrition.

[Grizalltheway]

It's not that they aren't good football players. It's that they leave North Dakota because they can't handle living in the winter. Cold sucks, and if you grew up in it its easier to deal with, at least that's the idea. His spin on it is stupid.

I personally don't mind cold at all. My fondest memories of Griz football are all from games where the temperature was 20 degrees or lower.xnodx

[Twentysix]

I personally don't mind cold at all. My fondest memories of Griz football are all from games where the temperature was 20 degrees or lower.xnodx

It has nothing to do with football. It has to do with going to class in -40. It is easier to justify transferring over something like that when you are from Houston then when you are from Red Cloud.

[MarkyMark]

I won't surmise what Mpls was trying to imply because it's likely completely different from my stance. But I agree that NDSU should spend more time in the upper Midwest and less, if any, time in places like Florida, Arizona, and Texas. It's not because I think players from the upper Midwest are better, it's just a proven scientific fact that they're more likely to stick with the program once they get here. NDSU has only been recruiting Arizona for the last few years but attrition rates are already terrible, I don't think that's just a coincidence. Texas has produced some of the best players NDSU has fielded in the last 10 years but for each stud there's been 2-3 washouts. It's all about minimizing attrition.

I gotta disagree with you Chaos. NDSU only has 1 recruiter covering all of those states plus the guys that don't work out usually only stick around for 1 or 2 years. Its really not that big of a risk. Plus how do you argue with results? We've only lost 2 games during the last 2 years, haven't lost on the road since 2010! I'd say NDSU recruiting is going great even without our suggestions.

[robsnotes4u]

It has nothing to do with football. It has to do with going to class in -40. It is easier to justify transferring over something like that when you are from Houston then when you are from Red Cloud.

If you are not from hear it is hard to understand walking to class at -30 with a 15 mph wind. At 20 degrees we wear shorts and a windbreaker.

Total Agreement


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[DJKyR0]

The southern speed bit is overplayed to the point of ridiculousness. Christian Dudzik is one of the fastest guys on the team and he's from Nebraska.

[gumby013]

The southern speed bit is overplayed to the point of ridiculousness. Christian Dudzik is one of the fastest guys on the team and he's from Nebraska.

Middle speed my good man. Middle speed.

[Professor Chaos]

I gotta disagree with you Chaos. NDSU only has 1 recruiter covering all of those states plus the guys that don't work out usually only stick around for 1 or 2 years. Its really not that big of a risk. Plus how do you argue with results? We've only lost 2 games during the last 2 years, haven't lost on the road since 2010! I'd say NDSU recruiting is going great even without our suggestions.
That's exactly the problem. The reason why NDSU is 35-2 in the last three years is due not only to the quality of the recruits but to the fact that the 2009 and 2010 recruiting classes had a very low attrition rate. And look at the contributors to these teams and where they're from:

ND: Luecke, Beck, Drevlow, Grothman, Ryan Smith, Thorton, Plankers
SD: Hardie, Gebhart
MN: Jirik, Perry, Lavoy, Olson, Littlejohn, Williams, CJ Smith, Haeg, Turner, Gimmestad, Colville, Johnson, Turner, Crockett, Vaadeland, Nelson, Vraa, Woods
WI: Schaetz, Heagle, Jensen, Lang
NE: Emmanuel, Deluca, Dudzik, Hinz
IL: Gee-Tucker, Ojuri, LeCompte

Then you look at what's outside of that: Shepherd (KS), Pierre (FL), Champion (AZ), Keller (PA), Murphy (CA)

In Arizona, for example, they've lost 5 of 7 AZ recruits since the 2011 class. Your point about the success in the last few years only reinforces where the recruiting focus should be. I don't know how many recruiters they have going to AZ and FL but I just question how useful spending any recruiting resources there is. This is all just my opinion but I'll trust that the coaching staff is aware of the risks and knows a lot more about it than me.

[Gil Dobie]

The southern speed bit is overplayed to the point of ridiculousness. Christian Dudzik is one of the fastest guys on the team and he's from Nebraska.

A lot of speed has come out of Omaha, maybe not to NDSU, but players like Gale Sayers, Johnny Rodgers, Ahman Green etc.

[darell1976]

A lot of speed has come out of Omaha, maybe not to NDSU, but players like Gale Sayers, Johnny Rodgers, Ahman Green etc.

Good thing they went to U of Nebraska and NOT U of Nebraska-Omaha. UNO would've been a threat in the NCC.

[Bisonoline]

I won't surmise what Mpls was trying to imply because it's likely completely different from my stance. But I agree that NDSU should spend more time in the upper Midwest and less, if any, time in places like Florida, Arizona, and Texas. It's not because I think players from the upper Midwest are better, it's just a proven scientific fact that they're more likely to stick with the program once they get here. NDSU has only been recruiting Arizona for the last few years but attrition rates are already terrible, I don't think that's just a coincidence. Texas has produced some of the best players NDSU has fielded in the last 10 years but for each stud there's been 2-3 washouts. It's all about minimizing attrition.

I think you should look at the attrition of MN and ND players. Its more than you think.

[thebootfitter]

Good thing they went to U of Nebraska and NOT U of Nebraska-Omaha. UNO would've been a threat in the NCC.
UNO was a threat in the NCC for awhile. They were bad for awhile, but I think it was in the 90s that they picked up their game quite a bit. I recall a few years where they were ranked among the top teams in the country.

[Professor Chaos]

I think you should look at the attrition of MN and ND players. Its more than you think.
I know what it is and it isn't nearly as high as the AZ or TX attrition rates. It's definitely significant, like at any program, but it's not above 50%.

[Bisonoline]

I know what it is and it isn't nearly as high as the AZ or TX attrition rates. It's definitely significant, like at any program, but it's not above 50%.

If you know then what is it?

[UNDBIZ]

It's not that they aren't good football players. It's that they leave North Dakota because they can't handle living in the winter. Cold sucks, and if you grew up in it its easier to deal with, at least that's the idea. His spin on it is stupid.

The people of Fargo wish more of them left North Dakota..... ;)

[darell1976]

UNO was a threat in the NCC for awhile. They were bad for awhile, but I think it was in the 90s that they picked up their game quite a bit. I recall a few years where they were ranked among the top teams in the country.

Towards the end of the 90's into the 2000's before and after the SU's left they were a threat. But not to much a threat in the 80's and early 90's (when NU had those good running backs).

[Professor Chaos]

If you know then what is it?
Since 2009 (which would be when this year's redshirt seniors signed) and not counting this year's true freshman class.

Total: 59 of 92 (64.13%) stuck with the program - which is very good overall

SD: 3 of 3 (100%)
PA: 1 of 1 (100%)
UT: 1 of 1 (100%)
NE: 6 of 7 (85.71%)
ND: 13 of 16 (81.25%)
MN: 19 of 24 (79.17%)
WI: 7 of 11 (63.64%)
IL: 3 of 6 (50%)
KS: 2 of 6 (33.3%)
IA: 1 of 3 (33.3%)
CA: 1 of 3 (33.3%)
AZ: 2 of 7 (28.57%)
FL: 0 of 2 (0%)
TX: 0 of 2 (0%)

CA, AZ, FL, and TX add up to 3 of 14 (21.4%). It doesn't take an acountant to see the trend.

[Twentysix]

What about by position?

QB's transfer more than other players right?

This is interesting stuff.

[Professor Chaos]

What about by position?

QB's transfer more than other players right?

This is interesting stuff.
In the '09-'12 classes only 1 QB (Ryan Stanford) has left the program. There 5 QB commitments in those classes.

[Thundar]

couple of the AZ kids were booted and didn't transfer due to anything but their own stupidity

and both were top notch recruits

[FargoBison]

Another AZ player had a career ending injury.

[MarkyMark]

In Arizona, for example, they've lost 5 of 7 AZ recruits since the 2011 class. Your point about the success in the last few years only reinforces where the recruiting focus should be. I don't know how many recruiters they have going to AZ and FL but I just question how useful spending any recruiting resources there is. This is all just my opinion but I'll trust that the coaching staff is aware of the risks and knows a lot more about it than me.

Just 1 guy covers AZ and FL and that's AJ Cooper. Here is a good article on how NDSU divides up the recruiting territories. http://www.bisonillustrated.com/2013/09/roaming-the-sidelines/

I am very happy we dabbled in TX and came up with Holloway and McNorton. Too me it was well worth it to take all the kids from TX to get those two. Mike Sigers was awesome too, he really helped us in the playoffs in 2010.

[Twentysix]

In the '09-'12 classes only 1 QB (Ryan Stanford) has left the program. There 5 QB commitments in those classes.

But if you increase that just a few years you get a lot more QB's departing right?

Like who is Andrew farby, did he graduate on the team?

Did Troy Jackson graduate on the team?

Jose Mohler transferred for sure.

Mitch Brekke.

Ryan Parsons.

Ryan Stanford.

I only went back to the 07 roster, and maybe some of them changed position.

[Tubakat2014]

It's not that they aren't good football players. It's that they leave North Dakota because they can't handle living in the winter. Cold sucks, and if you grew up in it its easier to deal with, at least that's the idea. His spin on it is stupid.


I won't surmise what Mpls was trying to imply because it's likely completely different from my stance. But I agree that NDSU should spend more time in the upper Midwest and less, if any, time in places like Florida, Arizona, and Texas. It's not because I think players from the upper Midwest are better, it's just a proven scientific fact that they're more likely to stick with the program once they get here. NDSU has only been recruiting Arizona for the last few years but attrition rates are already terrible, I don't think that's just a coincidence. Texas has produced some of the best players NDSU has fielded in the last 10 years but for each stud there's been 2-3 washouts. It's all about minimizing attrition.

I agree with both of you. Heck, even someone like me that LOVES cold weather wouldn't want to deal with driving on ice and shoveling snow. So I can only imagine what moving up north would be like if you don't like the cold or simply can't handle it. And of course, as a Bearkat, I definitely don't mind NDSU leaving the Texas kids for us :)

[Bisonoline]

I won't surmise what Mpls was trying to imply because it's likely completely different from my stance. But I agree that NDSU should spend more time in the upper Midwest and less, if any, time in places like Florida, Arizona, and Texas. It's not because I think players from the upper Midwest are better, it's just a proven scientific fact that they're more likely to stick with the program once they get here. NDSU has only been recruiting Arizona for the last few years but attrition rates are already terrible, I don't think that's just a coincidence. Texas has produced some of the best players NDSU has fielded in the last 10 years but for each stud there's been 2-3 washouts. It's all about minimizing attrition.

Please provide link for said study-facts etc. TIA.

[Professor Chaos]

Please provide link for said study-facts etc. TIA.
http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?144896-NDSU-recruiting-in-Nebraska&p=2035606#post2035606

If you don't trust my research feel free to do it yourself. Here's the NDSU recruiting lists from 2009-2012:
2012 Recruiting Summary (http://www.bisonville.com/forum/showthread.php?24154-2012-Recruiting-Summary)
2011 Recruiting Summary (http://www.bisonville.com/forum/showthread.php?20018-2011-Recruiting-Summary)
2010 Recruiting Summary (http://www.bisonville.com/forum/showthread.php?16978-2010-Recruiting-Summary)
2009 Recruiting Summary (http://www.bisonville.com/forum/showthread.php?14825-2009-Recruiting-Quick-Reference)

Cross reference it with the current roster: http://gobison.com/roster.aspx?path=football&tab=roster2

The proof is in the data. From 2009-2012 the Bison have retained 3 of 14 players from CA, FL, AZ, and TX. From ND, MN, SD, NE they retained 41 of 50. You tell me what I'm supposed to be surprised about?


But if you increase that just a few years you get a lot more QB's departing right?

Like who is Andrew farby, did he graduate on the team?

Did Troy Jackson graduate on the team?

Jose Mohler transferred for sure.

Mitch Brekke.

Ryan Parsons.

Ryan Stanford.

I only went back to the 07 roster, and maybe some of them changed position.
Yeah, QB was a mess from about 2007-2010. A few JUCOs and the Parsons Project in there didn't help. Ever since then Bohl and company have adopted the recruit a high school QB every year approach no matter what the depth chart is. Seems to have worked better lately in creating depth for the most important position on the team.

[Bisonoline]

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?144896-NDSU-recruiting-in-Nebraska&p=2035606#post2035606

If you don't trust my research feel free to do it yourself. Here's the NDSU recruiting lists from 2009-2012:
2012 Recruiting Summary (http://www.bisonville.com/forum/showthread.php?24154-2012-Recruiting-Summary)
2011 Recruiting Summary (http://www.bisonville.com/forum/showthread.php?20018-2011-Recruiting-Summary)
2010 Recruiting Summary (http://www.bisonville.com/forum/showthread.php?16978-2010-Recruiting-Summary)
2009 Recruiting Summary (http://www.bisonville.com/forum/showthread.php?14825-2009-Recruiting-Quick-Reference)

Cross reference it with the current roster: http://gobison.com/roster.aspx?path=football&tab=roster2

The proof is in the data. From 2009-2012 the Bison have retained 3 of 14 players from CA, FL, AZ, and TX. From ND, MN, SD, NE they retained 41 of 50. You tell me what I'm supposed to be surprised about?


Yeah, QB was a mess from about 2007-2010. A few JUCOs and the Parsons Project in there didn't help. Ever since then Bohl and company have adopted the recruit a high school QB every year approach no matter what the depth chart is. Seems to have worked better lately in creating depth for the most important position on the team.

You stated scientific fact so what are the percentages? Be sure and include IA, WI and IL. No cherry picking your data.

[Vitojr130]

I agree. Why post this here? Do we need to post every article from the local paper?? What is the relevance to other FCS fans???


Irrelevant to AGS. More suited for BV. Wish people knew the difference.

For once I'm siding with Mpls. It's a message board and he outlined the topic clearly in the title so if other fans don't want to read about it, simply don't click it. I, for one, like NDSU articles on here because I don't go on Bisonville as often as I'd like because I don't have enough time to keep up on both websites. So, that is why he posts this here: for all the NDSU fans who don't venture to Bisonville as much as other sites...

[Drblankstare]

Hmm a thread started by MPLS actually turned out to be an interesting read. Who'd of thought. Thanks Professor for all the stats.

[Professor Chaos]

You stated scientific fact so what are the percentages? Be sure and include IA, WI and IL. No cherry picking your data.

Fair enough. WI, IA, and IL have retained 11 of 20 players. Add those to the rest of the upper Midwest and its 52 of 70. Still much much higher than the 22% rate that players were retained from AZ, CA, FL, and TX. I'm thinking your goal at this point is just to waste my time digging up these numbers because they're not what you think they are.

[MplsBison]

Chaos, thank you! You've hit the nail on the head in all aspects. I was never trying to say that players from one area are better. My simple point is that bringing payers from these warm states to Fargo is a waste of time. Focus on the upper Midwest players that have been the backbone of two national championships.

[MplsBison]

And I understand that coach Cooper is from PHX, so Bohl lets him recruit that area. Fine. I just think those thin-blooded desert boys coming out of high school are quick to get home sick when they're so far from home and that Fargo winter hits.

[semobison]

Chaos, thank you! You've hit the nail on the head in all aspects. I was never trying to say that players from one area are better. My simple point is that bringing payers from these warm states to Fargo is a waste of time. Focus on the upper Midwest players that have been the backbone of two national championships.

Yep, McNorton and Holloway were a waste of time! Simple points from Mpls 101!

[MplsBison]

Yep, McNorton and Holloway were a waste of time! Simple points from Mpls 101!

??? I never said any such thing.

McNorton and Holloway were great players for NDSU and I'm glad they played in Fargo.

[MSUBobcat]

Chaos, thank you! You've hit the nail on the head in all aspects. I was never trying to say that players from one area are better. My simple point is that bringing payers from these warm states to Fargo is a waste of time. Focus on the upper Midwest players that have been the backbone of two national championships.

I think this is oversimplifying why a student leaves NDSU. There are more factors involved than the temperature when walking to class or the grocery store. What if the player thought they would see significant playing time and are 2nd or 3rd team on a pretty stacked squad? Maybe Fargo doesn't suite them for whatever reason (I lived in Anchorage and left after 1 year and weather had nothing to do with it).

I don't have the stats of what % leave, but in looking at the rosters of Montana State and Montana, you see lots of kids from CA and TX, as well as a handful from AZ and even 3 from HI on UM, and our teams don't play in a dome. Hell I've been to games where I've been bundled up and freezing and McGhee isn't wearing long sleeves or a glove and he's from Euless, TX and I wonder if it affects his performance. MSU has on its roster this year, more kids from CA (21) and TX (14) than NDSU recruited from all of CA, TX and FL from 2009-2012. Perhaps it's lack of recruiting presence in those states results in kids who think they are starters and end up being backups and they can't accept it.

The point is it's a bit myopic to say that warm weather kids rarely stay because Fargo's weather chases them out. Maybe NDSU should do exit interviews so we could know their true motivations. I, for one, think we MUST get to the bottom of this. xnodx:D

[semobison]

??? I never said any such thing.

McNorton and Holloway were great players for NDSU and I'm glad they played in Fargo.

Huh! You stated above, "My simple point is that bringing players from these warm states to Fargo is a waste of time". I don't disagree that the Midwest is where we should continue our focus, but to ignore recruiting in warmer states would be a terrible idea. When we moved up we knew we had to expand our recruiting base and we did. Great programs recruit a wide area of the country and we need to continue to get the players we need even if they are from warmer climates. Our focus will remain in the Midwest but sometimes we find a gem or two from AZ, FL, TX or wherever.

[FargoBison]

I don't care what the numbers say...sometimes you have to go out of region to fill a certain need. Our region of the country doesn't always produce a plethora of skill players. I'm glad our coaches keep on working to build a pipeline in these states, eventually it will pay off in a big way.

[Bisonoline]

Fair enough. WI, IA, and IL have retained 11 of 20 players. Add those to the rest of the upper Midwest and its 52 of 70. Still much much higher than the 22% rate that players were retained from AZ, CA, FL, and TX. I'm thinking your goal at this point is just to waste my time digging up these numbers because they're not what you think they are.

No my point was to just have you dig up the number after the scientific fact statement. Did you really say that? Really?
But 11 of 20 for those states? Almost 50% I guess we should just not recruit there either? I bet you could cherry pick the states and get an even lower %. Ya think.
I will go with what a few others have said. There are skill players in other regions of the country that need to be recruited regardless of the attrition rate. You think its a waste. Obviously the coaches certainly dont. We have had many players not from the midwest who have had a huge impact on the Bison program. To say its a waste of time and money is ridiculous.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

I think this is oversimplifying why a student leaves NDSU. There are more factors involved than the temperature when walking to class or the grocery store. What if the player thought they would see significant playing time and are 2nd or 3rd team on a pretty stacked squad? Maybe Fargo doesn't suite them for whatever reason (I lived in Anchorage and left after 1 year and weather had nothing to do with it).

I don't have the stats of what % leave, but in looking at the rosters of Montana State and Montana, you see lots of kids from CA and TX, as well as a handful from AZ and even 3 from HI on UM, and our teams don't play in a dome. Hell I've been to games where I've been bundled up and freezing and McGhee isn't wearing long sleeves or a glove and he's from Euless, TX and I wonder if it affects his performance. MSU has on its roster this year, more kids from CA (21) and TX (14) than NDSU recruited from all of CA, TX and FL from 2009-2012. Perhaps it's lack of recruiting presence in those states results in kids who think they are starters and end up being backups and they can't accept it.

The point is it's a bit myopic to say that warm weather kids rarely stay because Fargo's weather chases them out. Maybe NDSU should do exit interviews so we could know their true motivations. I, for one, think we MUST get to the bottom of this. xnodx:D


Different recruiting philosophies in the coaching staffs.

Big Sky teams tend to be pass happy and light on the defense. MV teams tend to be running teams and more defensive oriented. For example, take the MSU/NDSU playoff match-up in '10. After the game the MSU coach said they have to get better on both lines.....has MSU done that?

If NDSU and MSU match-up this year I believe the game will go like the one in '10....MSU wears out in the 2nd half and gets blown out.

[Twentysix]

Different recruiting philosophies in the coaching staffs.

Big Sky teams tend to be pass happy and light on the defense. MV teams tend to be running teams and more defensive oriented. For example, take the MSU/NDSU playoff match-up in '10. After the game the MSU coach said they have to get better on both lines.....has MSU done that?

If NDSU and MSU match-up this year I believe the game will go like the one in '10....MSU wears out in the 2nd half and gets blown out.

Yeah that's probably what will happen. I will continue to think Big Sky teams lack physicality until I see otherwise.

[Bisonoline]

??? I never said any such thing.

McNorton and Holloway were great players for NDSU and I'm glad they played in Fargo.

"""My simple point is that bringing payers from these warm states to Fargo is a waste of time.""

Your words---

[Bisonoline]

I don't care what the numbers say...sometimes you have to go out of region to fill a certain need. Our region of the country doesn't always produce a plethora of skill players. I'm glad our coaches keep on working to build a pipeline in these states, eventually it will pay off in a big way.

Well said.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Yeah that's probably what will happen. I will continue to think Big Sky teams lack physicality until I see otherwise.


Between EWU-Grizz-MSU, the team I think that could give the Bison a run would be the Grizz just for the fact that they play some defense.

[Professor Chaos]

No my point was to just have you dig up the number after the scientific fact statement. Did you really say that? Really?
But 11 of 20 for those states? Almost 50% I guess we should just not recruit there either? I bet you could cherry pick the states and get an even lower %. Ya think.
I will go with what a few others have said. There are skill players in other regions of the country that need to be recruited regardless of the attrition rate. You think its a waste. Obviously the coaches certainly dont. We have had many players not from the midwest who have had a huge impact on the Bison program. To say its a waste of time and money is ridiculous.
You can't cherry pick any combination of AZ, CA, TX, and FL and get anything higher than 33% of players retained. If you want to crow about that and poo-poo the fact that only 55% are retained from WI, IA, and IL go ahead but I'll continue to marvel at the fact that you choose to ignore the numbers and rely on your own preconceived notions about retention based on geography.

You can go ahead and "cherry pick" McNorton and Holloway as reasons why we should recruit those states but where did the current offensive skill players come from? Where did Jensen, Wentz, Ojuri, Crockett, Lang, Morlock, Vraa, R Smith, Gebhart, Woods, Perkins, Moody, Wahlo, Vaadeland, Nelson come from? Answer: ND, SD, MN, IL, and WI. Like I said, McNorton and Holloway were tremendous players and I'm proud to say they were NDSU football players but why exactly do the Bison need to recruit skill players from the southern states? They've done plenty well in the upper Midwest and I don't see any reason why they can't continue to do so. Being a fan of NDSU I won't try to claim that I'm smarter than the current recruiting coordinators but look at the data. Can you really tell me with a straight face that they need to recruit AZ, TX, CA, and FL? If you can I think your head's in the sand. I think it's great that they have the resources to recruit those states but to make any of them a priority is just asinine IMO. Having said that they can continue to recruit wherever the hell they want to and if they continue to win championships I won't really care, I just find it as a very interesting topic of discussion.

[Gil Dobie]

UNO did get Marlon Brisco.


Good thing they went to U of Nebraska and NOT U of Nebraska-Omaha. UNO would've been a threat in the NCC.

[Darlinikki150]

Why are you picking on the Professor? I tend to agree w analysis. He isn't saying that players we have recruited from those states haven't added value to Bison football, but he has a point.