Tuesday's question!

[PaladinFan]

Entreat me...

I have often watched some teams be so dominate on offense while employing sometimes only one or two plays. The Denver Broncos a few years back could run the sweep with Terrell Davis til the wheels fell off. West Virginia can sit and that shotgun running the option and nobody can do a thing about it. Georgia Southern killed teams for year with the triple option.

My question is this. If you were a I-AA defensive coordinator, which opponent's offensive set or play would you have the hardest time preparing for?

I am most familiar with SoCon, so I'll start there...

1. Wofford's buck option. The Terriers are not as athletically skilled as other teams, but they still hold on to a dying offense. Their quarterbacks are about the most disciplined you'll find and run this play over and over, usually with great success. This past weekend the radio announcer claimed that the fullback was stopped for no gain, when in fact the quarterback was getting run out of bounds 12 yrds down the field. Tough stuff.

2. Appalachian's read option. ASU will stick their quarterback and RB in the shotgun. The QB will read the defense and then either keep the ball or hand it off (much like WVU does). With the athletic talent they have in the backfield, it is extremely hard to stop as both the QB and the RB are usually accomplished runners. When they use that to set up a play action pass....it will go for huge gains.

3. Furman's jumbo set. No team better in IAA (IMO) at short yardage conversions. Furman will take out the WRs and replace them with two big tightends and another fullback. With size at all the backfield positions lined up in the I and accomplished blockers and pass catchers in their second fullback and two tight ends, the Paladins can send the ball just about anywhere, on the ground or in the air. Defending it is easy, stopping it is nearly impossible.


Those were three off the top of my head. What are some of the scary plays/formations you find in the other conferences?

[DFW HOYA]

What are some of the scary plays/formations you find in the other conferences?

None come to mind in the PL this year.

Then again, the Hoyas' leading running back has 86 yards after five games, so there's nothing scary about that.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

I agree with your three choices, and with Georgia Southern's Paul Johnson offense.

A lot of people say that the option offense can’t be successful at pro and high level college football because the linebackers are too fast. I say BS. In PJ’s version of the TO, the quarterback can fake a handoff to the fullback before rolling out with the pitch man. On a fullback dive, he can fake like he is doing an option play. This keeps the linebackers from being able to react too quickly. Paul Johnson has turned the Navy team around completely, and it’s because of his superior offensive scheme. Navy doesn’t even have the same level of talent that GSU has. If PJ were to get a job at a major IA school like Nebraska, he’d win some Sears Trophies. If you don’t believe me, look at the 2004 GSU UGA game. And Sewak’s version of the option isn’t as good as Johnson’s was.

[blukeys]

I agree with your three choices, and with Georgia Southern's Paul Johnson offense.

A lot of people say that the option offense can’t be successful at pro and high level college football because the linebackers are too fast. I say BS. In PJ’s version of the TO, the quarterback can fake a handoff to the fullback before rolling out with the pitch man. On a fullback dive, he can fake like he is doing an option play. This keeps the linebackers from being able to react too quickly. Paul Johnson has turned the Navy team around completely, and it’s because of his superior offensive scheme. Navy doesn’t even have the same level of talent that GSU has. If PJ were to get a job at a major IA school like Nebraska, he’d win some Sears Trophies. If you don’t believe me, look at the 2004 GSU UGA game. And Sewak’s version of the option isn’t as good as Johnson’s was.

The basic option Sewak used was just as good as Johnson's.

There are 2 major reasons why Sewak's teams did not perform to the level of Johnson's. By the time Sewak took over GSU's athletic superiority especially superiority in overall team speed had been negated. The 2002 GSU team was no faster overall then an upper level A-10 team.

The second reason is that Johnson is much better at making adjustments then most football coaches in general and a whole lot better than Sewak.

Having seen Johnson coached Navy and GSU teams and Sewak's teams it is obvious to me that Johnson can get more out of his talent then most coaches anywhere. The man's adjustments during the game and knowledge of how his personnel can exploit the matchups is one of the best I've seen.

[MR. CHICKEN]

Entreat me...

I have often watched some teams be so dominate on offense while employing sometimes only one or two plays. The Denver Broncos a few years back could run the sweep with Terrell Davis til the wheels fell off. West Virginia can sit and that shotgun running the option and nobody can do a thing about it. Georgia Southern killed teams for year with the triple option.

My question is this. If you were a I-AA defensive coordinator, which opponent's offensive set or play would you have the hardest time preparing for?

I am most familiar with SoCon, so I'll start there...

1. Wofford's buck option. The Terriers are not as athletically skilled as other teams, but they still hold on to a dying offense. Their quarterbacks are about the most disciplined you'll find and run this play over and over, usually with great success. This past weekend the radio announcer claimed that the fullback was stopped for no gain, when in fact the quarterback was getting run out of bounds 12 yrds down the field. Tough stuff.

2. Appalachian's read option. ASU will stick their quarterback and RB in the shotgun. The QB will read the defense and then either keep the ball or hand it off (much like WVU does). With the athletic talent they have in the backfield, it is extremely hard to stop as both the QB and the RB are usually accomplished runners. When they use that to set up a play action pass....it will go for huge gains.

3. Furman's jumbo set. No team better in IAA (IMO) at short yardage conversions. Furman will take out the WRs and replace them with two big tightends and another fullback. With size at all the backfield positions lined up in the I and accomplished blockers and pass catchers in their second fullback and two tight ends, the Paladins can send the ball just about anywhere, on the ground or in the air. Defending it is easy, stopping it is nearly impossible.


Those were three off the top of my head. What are some of the scary plays/formations you find in the other conferences?

DEFENDIN' IS EASY.....STOPPIN' IS NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE?????..AWK??

316 POSTS....NOW AH UNDERSTAND!

[Mr. C]

The second reason is that Johnson is much better at making adjustments then most football coaches in general and a whole lot better than Sewak.

Having seen Johnson coached Navy and GSU teams and Sewak's teams it is obvious to me that Johnson can get more out of his talent then most coaches anywhere. The man's adjustments during the game and knowledge of how his personnel can exploit the matchups is one of the best I've seen.
You are so on the mark here. And I've talked to several coaches who share your view, too. I've never seen a coach who was better at making adjustments from the first half to the second half better than Paul Johnson.

I also agree that if a big-time school ever took a flyer on PJ that they would be rewarded with some national championships.

[SuperJon]

Oh how I wish North Carolina would listen to you guys...

[Mr. C]

Entreat me...

I have often watched some teams be so dominate on offense while employing sometimes only one or two plays. The Denver Broncos a few years back could run the sweep with Terrell Davis til the wheels fell off. West Virginia can sit and that shotgun running the option and nobody can do a thing about it. Georgia Southern killed teams for year with the triple option.

My question is this. If you were a I-AA defensive coordinator, which opponent's offensive set or play would you have the hardest time preparing for?

I am most familiar with SoCon, so I'll start there...

2. Appalachian's read option. ASU will stick their quarterback and RB in the shotgun. The QB will read the defense and then either keep the ball or hand it off (much like WVU does). With the athletic talent they have in the backfield, it is extremely hard to stop as both the QB and the RB are usually accomplished runners. When they use that to set up a play action pass....it will go for huge gains.

Appalachian State's staff spent time following the 2003 season with Rich Rodriguez's staff at West Virginia, so the zone play that the two run is the same. If the QB reads that things are open for the RB, he hands the ball off, if he has the best opportunity to run, he hangs on to the ball on the keeper. The play is very similar to Bill Yeoman's Veer Option, which was run with split backs. This is basically the veer from a shotgun formation (allowing more time to read), with one RB instead of two. If you notice, the RB can either line up to the right, or the left of the QB and sometimes can be moved, when the QB checks off, to the opposite side. Variations include bringing a second back into the backfield, running motion and faking to the slot receiver, or handing him the ball on what resembles a reverse. A number of area high schools have come in to ASU to talk to the coaches and their usual response is this: "Is that all there is to it?" The local high school, Watauga High, installed the ASU offense this season. This is a school that has been one of the worst in North Carolina 4-A football, with like one winning season in over 20 years. So with the new offense, Watauga has gone 7-0 to start the season — it's best start since 1981. ASU also talked with Utah (Urban Meyer's staff) and the MAC team he came from before Utah (can't remember which one, perhaps Ohio U.?).

[FUwolfpacker]

Appalachian State's staff spent time following the 2003 season with Rich Rodriguez's staff at West Virginia, so the zone play that the two run is the same. If the QB reads that things are open for the RB, he hands the ball off, if he has the best opportunity to run, he hangs on to the ball on the keeper. The play is very similar to Bill Yeoman's Veer Option, which was run with split backs. This is basically the veer from a shotgun formation (allowing more time to read), with one RB instead of two. If you notice, the RB can either line up to the right, or the left of the QB and sometimes can be moved, when the QB checks off, to the opposite side. Variations include bringing a second back into the backfield, running motion and faking to the slot receiver, or handing him the ball on what resembles a reverse. A number of area high schools have come in to ASU to talk to the coaches and their usual response is this: "Is that all there is to it?" The local high school, Watauga High, installed the ASU offense this season. This is a school that has been one of the worst in North Carolina 4-A football, with like one winning season in over 20 years. So with the new offense, Watauga has gone 7-0 to start the season — it's best start since 1981. ASU also talked with Utah (Urban Meyer's staff) and the MAC team he came from before Utah (can't remember which one, perhaps Ohio U.?).

Mr. C, I'm pretty sure the team you were thinking of is Bowling Green. I'm almost positive that's where Meyer came from before he went to Utah. Ohio U does run the option though don't they? You'd think so with Solich there.

I don't know, some people might disagree with me, but I think whole spread option thing has worked out pretty well for ASU;) (apparently Watauga too). I love watching the option...from any formation. When it's run well, it really is awesome to watch. Richie really ran that read option very well. In the few ASU games I watched, he almost never made the wrong read.

As far as which offenses I wouldn't want to face...I guess any team that runs the option well. Option teams can just wear you down and get on your nerves. Then you add the option to a team that can actually throw the football (like ASU)....that's very tough to stop. It can be done, but it's just hard.

Ok, I've said one to many nice things about ASU, and I feel dirty now:( .

[GrizRchattybound]

Long post alert: Ignore if you don't like em.


Personal experience on the H.S. and JC level as a Defensive coach/D.C.

A) the toughest Play to stop: was a team that could run a true "trap" offense(a great trapping team could run the play any down and situation and cause fits)

B) I don't know what they call it....we Saw Sac State run it a few weeks ago. I call it a Flex-Option(Air Force kind of made it popular if I recall the name). Find a team that can run and pass outta that set and you can plan on a long day.


C) In Washington State High Schools there has been a revival of the Wing-T - of sorts -Modern Day style.

I have seen some great D's really struggle.



Best Gimmick Offense- "Heaven and Hell" or "Lonesome Pollcat"

I've seen teams Switch into that set and score 30+ unanswered points in a little over a qtr. in High School....several times.

RB, QB, Center on onse side of the field...everyone else ont he other side....and go.

[blukeys]

Long post alert: Ignore if you don't like em.


Personal experience on the H.S. and JC level as a Defensive coach/D.C.

A) the toughest Play to stop: was a team that could run a true "trap" offense(a great trapping team could run the play any down and situation and cause fits)

B) I don't know what they call it....we Saw Sac State run it a few weeks ago. I call it a Flex-Option(Air Force kind of made it popular if I recall the name). Find a team that can run and pass outta that set and you can plan on a long day.


C) In Washington State High Schools there has been a revival of the Wing-T - of sorts -Modern Day style.

I have seen some great D's really struggle.



Best Gimmick Offense- "Heaven and Hell" or "Lonesome Pollcat"

I've seen teams Switch into that set and score 30+ unanswered points in a little over a qtr. in High School....several times.

RB, QB, Center on onse side of the field...everyone else ont he other side....and go.


The Wing - T has never gone out of style in the high school ranks. There are still websites devoted to this offensive system. Google Delaware Wing T and see what you get!!!!!:nod: :nod: :nod: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

As you already know the blocking schemes on the Wing-T tend to be trap blocking. The system would work today. The closest to an option Wing-T team is Wofford and they run a system that is Delaware circa 1990 to 1994.

Wofford competes in a very tough conference without a lot of advantages. They are tough and competitive despite what I see as them being in a talent disadvantage especially against the traditional SoCon powers.

[Mr. C]

As has been pointed out several times, the Wofford wingbone has its roots in the Jim Brakefield wishbone that was run at Wofford and Appalachian State in the late 1960s and through the 1970s. Fisher DeBerry, a Wofford graduate and assistant, was Brakefield's offensive coordinator at ASU before heading to Air Force. Mike Ayers' option offense has elements of the Delaware Wing T, but is more related by influence in the wishbone. Jim Brakefield is one of those innovators that didn't get the proper due. He found ways to make the wishbone an effective passing offense (consider his quarterback Steve Brown was the all-time leading passer and held most of ASU's passing records until last year when Richie Williams broke them).

[PaladinFan]

C) In Washington State High Schools there has been a revival of the Wing-T - of sorts -Modern Day style.

I have seen some great D's really struggle.



If you like the wing-t, come swing by and watch some south georgia football. You might see two passes a game. There's a reason those SEC school produce quality runningbacks and linebackers :)

[Eagle_77]

The basic option Sewak used was just as good as Johnson's.

There are 2 major reasons why Sewak's teams did not perform to the level of Johnson's. By the time Sewak took over GSU's athletic superiority especially superiority in overall team speed had been negated. The 2002 GSU team was no faster overall then an upper level A-10 team.

The second reason is that Johnson is much better at making adjustments then most football coaches in general and a whole lot better than Sewak.

Having seen Johnson coached Navy and GSU teams and Sewak's teams it is obvious to me that Johnson can get more out of his talent then most coaches anywhere. The man's adjustments during the game and knowledge of how his personnel can exploit the matchups is one of the best I've seen.


While you are right on about everything you said about Johnson, especially the part about adjustments, you are wrong about the comparison as of the basic option of Sewaks and Johnsons. Having played for Johnson and watching nearly every game Sewak coached, myself as well as many other Georgia Southern fans will tell you that there were very big differences in these offenses. Under Sewak we rarely used our slot backs to our advantage. While running the option Sewak style the slots were rarely pitched the ball as the third option. Usually it was either a give or a QB keep. The slots were not used as much as receivers either. Actually most of the slots touches came on toss sweeps. We had actually become more of a double option team to be honest. Taking away this part of our game as much as it was made the option a lot easier to defend. While the offense looked the same and much of the play book was the same the players were not taught to execute it the same.

[FUwolfpacker]

While you are right on about everything you said about Johnson, especially the part about adjustments, you are wrong about the comparison as of the basic option of Sewaks and Johnsons. Having played for Johnson and watching nearly every game Sewak coached, myself as well as many other Georgia Southern fans will tell you that there were very big differences in these offenses. Under Sewak we rarely used our slot backs to our advantage. While running the option Sewak style the slots were rarely pitched the ball as the third option. Usually it was either a give or a QB keep. The slots were not used as much as receivers either. Actually most of the slots touches came on toss sweeps. We had actually become more of a double option team to be honest. Taking away this part of our game as much as it was made the option a lot easier to defend. While the offense looked the same and much of the play book was the same the players were not taught to execute it the same.

Boy that's the truth. I could not for the life of me figure out why GSU never pitched it to the slot backs over the last few years.

[PaladinFan]

I have a diatribe that I will go into about that offense after lunch. Just gettin ya ready.