New Mexico State Athletics

[superman7515]

I have immediate family involved in the NMSU situation and they have progressed beyond floating the idea of dropping football. They've already started "paying students" to attend games this season, they give away $250 prizes to random students in the 4th quarter and have a drawing each game for a $2000 Grand Prize, and there is sincere discussion about whether or not the athletics department may have to file for bankruptcy. President Carruthers has had talks with the Big Sky Conference about New Mexico State possibly moving down to FCS or dropping football altoghether and seeking membership in the Missouri Valley Conference (only as an option where football no longer exists).

[DoubleE]

i would think they would fit in the southland

[Twentysix]

NMSU might find membership in the SLC or the Summit, the MVC seems like a huge geographic stretch.

[superman7515]

All I know is the discussions have already taken place with the Big Sky and Missouri Valley. I wasn't told of any talks with any other conferences.

[DSUrocks07]

I have immediate family involved in the NMSU situation and they have progressed beyond floating the idea of dropping football. They've already started "paying students" to attend games this season, they give away $250 prizes to random students in the 4th quarter and have a drawing each game for a $2000 Grand Prize, and there is sincere discussion about whether or not the athletics department may have to file for bankruptcy. President Carruthers has had talks with the Big Sky Conference about New Mexico State possibly moving down to FCS or dropping football altoghether and seeking membership in the Missouri Valley Conference (only as an option where football no longer exists).

I'm guessing the Big Sky wouldn't mind because its an "airline" conference already. Southland might have reservations tho.

I'm sure the Sun Belt isn't going to like this at all. It was bad enough that both NMSU and Idaho were outliers, but if NMSU goes, then you just have Idaho...

http://i.imgur.com/fWlM9oo.png

xoopsx

[DoubleE]

I'm guessing the Big Sky wouldn't mind because its an "airline" conference already. Southland might have reservations tho.

I'm sure the Sun Belt isn't going to like this at all. It was bad enough that both NMSU and Idaho were outliers, but if NMSU goes, then you just have Idaho...

http://i.imgur.com/fWlM9oo.png

xoopsx

I thought Idaho and NMSU were independent in football this year ?

[bonarae]

They're better off without football, but if that sport would make the cut, Big Sky it would be. Cal Poly is quite an outlier in Big Sky football (because of its location) but they are content with that right now.

[superman7515]

I thought Idaho and NMSU were independent in football this year ?

NMSU enters the Sun Belt next season.

[bonarae]

I thought Idaho and NMSU were independent in football this year ?

DSUrocks07, this is probably from 2011 or 2012. The Vandals' and Aggies' other sports play in other conferences now.

They are both independent in football this year; they both have losing records ATM.

[superman7515]

DSUrocks07, this is probably from 2011 or 2012. The Vandals' and Aggies' other sports play in other conferences now.

They are both independent in football this year; they both have losing records ATM.

That is next season's map, you'll notice AppState, GaSo, and GaSt are included.

[DSUrocks07]

DSUrocks07, this is probably from 2011 or 2012. The Vandals' and Aggies' other sports play in other conferences now.

They are both independent in football this year; they both have losing records ATM.

Last I heard was that they both are supposed to be joining the Sun Belt in 2014.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/9099719/idaho-vandals-new-mexico-state-aggies-headed-sun-belt-conference-2014-sources-say

[T-Dog]

Last I heard was that they both are supposed to be joining the Sun Belt in 2014.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/9099719/idaho-vandals-new-mexico-state-aggies-headed-sun-belt-conference-2014-sources-say


Yep for football only. GSU-Statesboro has to travel to NMSU next year while Idaho goes to both App and GSU-Statesboro.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

The issue here is not can NMSU find a better conference than the Sun Belt but whether or not the SBC will allow NMSU to be a football-only member. If the SBC allows that then I guarantee you that NMSU won't move back down to FCS. If not, NMSU might still suck it up and move all sports to the SBC.

Not that I don't believe superman, but I will believe a school will move back down to FCS when I see it. It hasn't happened yet despite some schools being in some seemingly bad positions.

[superman7515]

The Sun Belt is already allowing them to be a football only member. The President doesn't feel they can afford it and has said they are at their maximum spending limit already, so he isn't going to authorize any more. He is of the opinion that he would rather move down to FCS where he can be near the top of spending in a conference (his words, not mine) or drop football and concentrate on other sports, rather than stay FBS and be at the bottom of the barrel. He said the odds of them making a BCS bowl with their budget is about the same as them making a BCS bowl from the FCS, haha.

[DoubleE]

That is next season's map, you'll notice AppState, GaSo, and GaSt are included.

I thought Western Kentucky joins Conference USA next year..... is it the year after ?

[superman7515]

Good catch, they leave July 1. Not sure who put that map together in that case, haha.

[DSUrocks07]

I thought Western Kentucky joins Conference USA next year..... is it the year after ?

Yeah in 2014, the map was probably made before they announced it.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Drop football and lobby like heck to be the only state school in the WCC. Their hoops program is usually pretty good...

[Catatonic]

Well, if they drop football I do hope it is after our game with them next week. I already have tickets.

[slostang]

They're better off without football, but if that sport would make the cut, Big Sky it would be. Cal Poly is quite an outlier in Big Sky football (because of its location) but they are content with that right now.
There are 2 other BSC teams in California. The outlier in the conference is UND.

[dgtw]

Would flying to Big Sky locations be much better than flying to Sun Belt games?

The Sun Belt would probably be glad to see them go, so they'd only have one "out there" school left.

[superman7515]

You're looking at it from only one line item. He isn't trying to cut the budget, he's saying which has higher return: $6.1 million football budget in FBS or $6.1 million football budget in FCS? He knows he isn't going to win in the FBS with that.

[Laker]

I'm not sure if NMSU has ever had success in football. It is possible but I've been paying attention to college football since 1967 and can't remember any great teams. I can only remember a running back named "Po" James. I wondered if he got his nickname from a river in northern Italy.

Both Idaho and NMSU should go FCS in football.

[Green26]

They're better off without football, but if that sport would make the cut, Big Sky it would be. Cal Poly is quite an outlier in Big Sky football (because of its location) but they are content with that right now.

Cal Poly isn't an outlier in the Big Sky. 2 CA schools in Big Sky. Charters. All Big Sky schools recruit CA. NAU, SU, Weber are in the travel ball park, and of course Sac St. CP is a terrific addition to the Big Sky. Most Big Sky schools have played CP historically. CP is a terrific academic addition to Big Sky.

[Mr. C]

Cal Poly isn't an outlier in the Big Sky. 2 CA schools in Big Sky. Charters. All Big Sky schools recruit CA. NAU, SU, Weber are in the travel ball park, and of course Sac St. CP is a terrific addition to the Big Sky. Most Big Sky schools have played CP historically. CP is a terrific academic addition to Big Sky.
The academic comment brings up a point against New Mexico State as a potential Big Sky school. NMSU is not particularly strong academically and that makes the Aggies a poor fit for the Big Sky, not even considering the geography.

[BigApp]

You're looking at it from only one line item. He isn't trying to cut the budget, he's saying which has higher return: $6.1 million football budget in FBS or $6.1 million football budget in FCS? He knows he isn't going to win in the FBS with that.

IF they drop down, that FCS budget won't be $6.1 million, it'll be cut in half if not more.

the Taliban is more likely to disband than NMSU dropping down to FCS.

[caribbeanhen]

put another team in the Big Sky and you'll need the FAA to track the new Big Crowded Sky Conference

[Catatonic]

I'm not sure if NMSU has ever had success in football. It is possible but I've been paying attention to college football since 1967 and can't remember any great teams. I can only remember a running back named "Po" James. I wondered if he got his nickname from a river in northern Italy.

Both Idaho and NMSU should go FCS in football.

New Mexico State's record under the last three coaches is 21-85. They are off to a 0-7 record this year after a 45-19 loss last night to Rice The loss extended their current losing streak to 18.

The Aggies have not been to a bowl in 53 years and have not won a conference championship 33 years. Their best record during this time was 7-5 (no bowl).

Last year's average home football attendance (12,051) fell below the 15k threshold required of FBS teams. The school is cash prizes and VIP parking passes to student ticket holders in an effort to boost student attendance.


We decided at the last minute to drive over to Las Cruces for the ACU-NMSU game next weekend. There are lots of interesting sites near Las Cruces--White Sands, Carlsbad Caverns and several others--so we thought we would make a long weekend of it. I did an online check this morning to see if any hotels still had availability. It's NMSU's homecoming and I thought finding a room might be tough. Nope. Virtually all hotels have vacancies and there is no "special events" surcharge. Maybe they should offer cash prizes to lure alums back to campus, too?

Yeah, I'd say things are not looking good in Las Cruces. The only bright spot I can see in an otherwise abysmal football situation that is the Aggies have managed an 18-2 record vs FCS opponents. The depth advantage gained by offering more scholarships, I suppose.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Couldn't Memorial stadium host a bowl?

[superman7515]

I've been on the field several times and it isn't bad for its size, but it lacks some of the amenities that they seem to look for and there's no easy access from a major airport for fans to come in. Las Cruces "International" isn't much, we always fly into Dallas and then make the drive over, although you can also wait around get a puddle hopper to El Paso, but again, that isn't much of an airport either, and you do NOT want to wander around in Ciudad Juarez. And there doesn't seem to be a connection to a big sponsor who is interested, and obviously, their own students/alums aren't that interested so I doubt you'll see a push from a group of friends of the program.

[Baldy]

From what I understand, their president has no interest in FBS or FCS and wants to kill football all together.

[Laker]

From what I understand, their president has no interest in FBS or FCS and wants to kill football all together.

Is he related to the Western Washington president? That is what happened there.

[DoubleE]

From what I understand, their president has no interest in FBS or FCS and wants to kill football all together.

did he come from the university of chicago ?

[hebmskebm]

did he come from the university of chicago ?

At least they have a DIII team now.

[bkrownd]

And there doesn't seem to be a connection to a big sponsor who is interested, and obviously, their own students/alums aren't that interested so I doubt you'll see a push from a group of friends of the program. Sad to see the BIG MONEY race in college football putting smaller programs in this kind of situation. I was very close to ending up at NMSU instead of Massachusetts. It's a nice enough town and campus, if you like 'em small and sleepy. Maybe not so much for rowdy party-hardy football player types. Las Cruces really needs some football to liven up lazy Saturdays out there in the boonies. It's one of the few schools that I think might contemplate moving to FCS. They're invisible enough that they don't have as much pride to lose by dropping down.

[SpiritCymbal]

What was the last I-A football program to drop football all together since the split into I-A and 1-aa?

[NoCoDanny]

West Texas A&M dropped down to D2 like 30 years ago or something.

[superman7515]

What was the last I-A football program to drop football all together since the split into I-A and 1-aa?

Pacific Tigers in 1995
Cal State Fullerton in 1992
Long Beach State in 1991

[aceinthehole]

What was the last I-A football program to drop football all together since the split into I-A and 1-aa?

Beginning with the 1982 season, no school has ever moved down from I-A/FBS to I-AA/FCS.

Since 1982, the following I-A programs have dropped football: Cal State Fullerton, Long Beach St., Pacific, and Wichita St.

FORMER FBS MEMBERS
Team Year(s)
Appalachian St. .................................................. ........... 1978-81
Brown .................................................. ............................... 1978-81
Cal St. Fullerton .................................................. ..........1978-92*
Chattanooga .................................................. ................. 1978-81
Citadel .................................................. .............................. 1978-81
Colgate .................................................. ............................ 1978-81
Columbia .................................................. ........................ 1978-81
Cornell........................................... ..................................... 1978-81
Dartmouth .................................................. ..................... 1978-81
Drake .................................................. ................................ 1978-81
East Tenn. St. .................................................. ..............1978-81*
Furman .................................................. ............................ 1978-81
Harvard .................................................. ............................ 1978-81
Holy Cross............................................. ............................ 1978-81
Illinois St. .................................................. ........................ 1978-81
Indiana St. .................................................. ..................... 1978-81
Lamar .................................................. .............................1978-81*
Long Beach St. .................................................. ...........1978-91*
McNeese St. .................................................. .................. 1978-81
Pacific .................................................. ............................1978-95*
Penn .................................................. .................................. 1978-81
Princeton .................................................. ........................ 1978-81
Richmond .................................................. ....................... 1978-81
Southern Ill. .................................................. .................. 1978-81
Tennessee St. .................................................. ............... 1978-80
Texas-Arlington......................................... ...................1978-81*
Villanova......................................... ................................... 1978-80
VMI .................................................. .................................... 1978-81
West Tex. A&M .................................................. .............. 1978-80
Western Caro. .................................................. .............. 1978-81
Wichita St. .................................................. ....................1978-86*
William & Mary .................................................. ............ 1978-81
Yale .................................................. .................................... 1978-81
*Dropped football program.

[wapiti]

Beginning with the 1982 season, no school has ever moved down from I-A/FBS to I-AA/FCS.

Since 1982, the following I-A programs have dropped football: Cal State Fullerton, Long Beach St., Pacific, and Wichita St.

FORMER FBS MEMBERS
Team Year(s)
Appalachian St. .................................................. ........... 1978-81
Brown .................................................. ............................... 1978-81
Cal St. Fullerton .................................................. ..........1978-92*
Chattanooga .................................................. ................. 1978-81
Citadel .................................................. .............................. 1978-81
Colgate .................................................. ............................ 1978-81
Columbia .................................................. ........................ 1978-81
Cornell........................................... ..................................... 1978-81
Dartmouth .................................................. ..................... 1978-81
Drake .................................................. ................................ 1978-81
East Tenn. St. .................................................. ..............1978-81*
Furman .................................................. ............................ 1978-81
Harvard .................................................. ............................ 1978-81
Holy Cross............................................. ............................ 1978-81
Illinois St. .................................................. ........................ 1978-81
Indiana St. .................................................. ..................... 1978-81
Lamar .................................................. .............................1978-81*
Long Beach St. .................................................. ...........1978-91*
McNeese St. .................................................. .................. 1978-81
Pacific .................................................. ............................1978-95*
Penn .................................................. .................................. 1978-81
Princeton .................................................. ........................ 1978-81
Richmond .................................................. ....................... 1978-81
Southern Ill. .................................................. .................. 1978-81
Tennessee St. .................................................. ............... 1978-80
Texas-Arlington......................................... ...................1978-81*
Villanova......................................... ................................... 1978-80
VMI .................................................. .................................... 1978-81
West Tex. A&M .................................................. .............. 1978-80
Western Caro. .................................................. .............. 1978-81
Wichita St. .................................................. ....................1978-86*
William & Mary .................................................. ............ 1978-81
Yale .................................................. .................................... 1978-81
*Dropped football program.

Didn't Cal State Northridge have Div 1 football and drop it?

[aceinthehole]

Didn't Cal State Northridge have Div 1 football and drop it?

Actually, Cal State-Northridge played Small College/D-II football from 1962 to 1992. In 1993 they reclassified to I-AA under the "Dayton Rule," but dropped the sport after the 2001 season.

[superman7515]

Beginning with the 1982 season, no school has ever moved down from I-A/FBS to I-AA/FCS.

Since 1982, the following I-A programs have dropped football: Cal State Fullerton, Long Beach St., Pacific, and Wichita St.

FORMER FBS MEMBERS
Team Year(s)
Appalachian St. .................................................. ........... 1978-81
Brown .................................................. ............................... 1978-81
Cal St. Fullerton .................................................. ..........1978-92*
Chattanooga .................................................. ................. 1978-81
Citadel .................................................. .............................. 1978-81
Colgate .................................................. ............................ 1978-81
Columbia .................................................. ........................ 1978-81
Cornell........................................... ..................................... 1978-81
Dartmouth .................................................. ..................... 1978-81
Drake .................................................. ................................ 1978-81
East Tenn. St. .................................................. ..............1978-81*
Furman .................................................. ............................ 1978-81
Harvard .................................................. ............................ 1978-81
Holy Cross............................................. ............................ 1978-81
Illinois St. .................................................. ........................ 1978-81
Indiana St. .................................................. ..................... 1978-81
Lamar .................................................. .............................1978-81*
Long Beach St. .................................................. ...........1978-91*
McNeese St. .................................................. .................. 1978-81
Pacific .................................................. ............................1978-95*
Penn .................................................. .................................. 1978-81
Princeton .................................................. ........................ 1978-81
Richmond .................................................. ....................... 1978-81
Southern Ill. .................................................. .................. 1978-81
Tennessee St. .................................................. ............... 1978-80
Texas-Arlington......................................... ...................1978-81*
Villanova......................................... ................................... 1978-80
VMI .................................................. .................................... 1978-81
West Tex. A&M .................................................. .............. 1978-80
Western Caro. .................................................. .............. 1978-81
Wichita St. .................................................. ....................1978-86*
William & Mary .................................................. ............ 1978-81
Yale .................................................. .................................... 1978-81
*Dropped football program.


FAMU was the closest. They left the MEAC after the 2003 season to move up to FBS, they completed their first year of the transition with a predominantly 1A schedule in 2004, but there was an administrative change and they gave up and returned to the MEAC after only one season.

[BlackNGoldR3v0lut10n]

From what I understand, their president has no interest in FBS or FCS and wants to kill football all together.

A guy after Paul Stanton's heart.

[Mr. C]

Actually, Cal State-Northridge played Small College/D-II football from 1962 to 1992. In 1993 they reclassified to I-AA under the "Dayton Rule," but dropped the sport after the 2001 season.
Back during my childhood (late 1960s, early 70s), Cal State-Northridge was called San Fernando State and played in the PCAA (Pacific Coast Athletic Association) with teams like Fresno State, San Jose State, San Diego State, Long Beach State, Cal State Fullerton, Los Angeles State and Cal Poly-Pomona. There was some very good football (like Don Coryell's San Diego State Aztecs) and some not so good football from the likes of LA State and Cal-Ploy Pomona. The PCAA eventually became the Big West and finally stopped sponsoring football in the 1990s.

[Mr. C]

A guy after Paul Stanton's heart.
Still hate to even hear Paul Stanton's name mentioned. What a terrible school president. Glad to see East Tennessee State is undoing his mistakes.

[T-Dog]

A guy after Paul Stanton's heart.

I've always heard that they had the pledges to build a new basketball arena on campus but after the decision to drop football was announced, those pledges were gone.

It amazes me how many people in the Tri-Cities area were on Stanton's side despite how badly he treated the football alums/supporters.

[SpiritCymbal]

Beginning with the 1982 season, no school has ever moved down from I-A/FBS to I-AA/FCS.

Since 1982, the following I-A programs have dropped football: Cal State Fullerton, Long Beach St., Pacific, and Wichita St.

FORMER FBS MEMBERS
Team Year(s)
Appalachian St. .................................................. ........... 1978-81
Brown .................................................. ............................... 1978-81
Cal St. Fullerton .................................................. ..........1978-92*
Chattanooga .................................................. ................. 1978-81
Citadel .................................................. .............................. 1978-81
Colgate .................................................. ............................ 1978-81
Columbia .................................................. ........................ 1978-81
Cornell........................................... ..................................... 1978-81
Dartmouth .................................................. ..................... 1978-81
Drake .................................................. ................................ 1978-81
East Tenn. St. .................................................. ..............1978-81*
Furman .................................................. ............................ 1978-81
Harvard .................................................. ............................ 1978-81
Holy Cross............................................. ............................ 1978-81
Illinois St. .................................................. ........................ 1978-81
Indiana St. .................................................. ..................... 1978-81
Lamar .................................................. .............................1978-81*
Long Beach St. .................................................. ...........1978-91*
McNeese St. .................................................. .................. 1978-81
Pacific .................................................. ............................1978-95*
Penn .................................................. .................................. 1978-81
Princeton .................................................. ........................ 1978-81
Richmond .................................................. ....................... 1978-81
Southern Ill. .................................................. .................. 1978-81
Tennessee St. .................................................. ............... 1978-80
Texas-Arlington......................................... ...................1978-81*
Villanova......................................... ................................... 1978-80
VMI .................................................. .................................... 1978-81
West Tex. A&M .................................................. .............. 1978-80
Western Caro. .................................................. .............. 1978-81
Wichita St. .................................................. ....................1978-86*
William & Mary .................................................. ............ 1978-81
Yale .................................................. .................................... 1978-81
*Dropped football program.

Very interesting. thanks for sharing.

[Catatonic]

President Carruthers has had talks with the Big Sky Conference about New Mexico State possibly moving down to FCS or dropping football altoghether and seeking membership in the Missouri Valley Conference (only as an option where football no longer exists).

Carruthers seems to have backed off his earlier statements about dropping football or moving down. These comments were made early last spring. His new focus seems to be on strengthening the WAC by adding new members for Olympic Sports and becoming competitive in the Sun Belt for football. He is also watching the situation with the Sun Belt and James Madison....if that does not work out, he thinks NMSU might be considered for membership in the SBC for all sports.

[superman7515]

He made the latest comments about dropping football on Friday during a luncheon. They've actually discussed having the athletic department file for bankruptcy.

[MplsBison]

You're looking at it from only one line item. He isn't trying to cut the budget, he's saying which has higher return: $6.1 million football budget in FBS or $6.1 million football budget in FCS? He knows he isn't going to win in the FBS with that.

He might want to ask Louisiana-Monroe about that. Seems to me they made a bowl game last season spending less than App St did last year.

[MplsBison]

He made the latest comments about dropping football on Friday during a luncheon. They've actually discussed having the athletic department file for bankruptcy.

That is absurd.

- The athletic dept isn't a separate entity from the university.
- It's not a business.
- It doesn't have separate debts from the university that it owes.
- And I doubt it has debts at all. Who are the debt holders that would be out of luck if such a proposed "NMSU athletics bankruptcy" were allowed to pass?


If they want to drop football, fine. It will result in a near term spending decrease but ultimately will have a net negative effect on school pride, donations, the athletic department as a whole and the school as a whole.

They'll just end up restarting the program in 10-15 years at great cost.


The only guarantee in this whole thing: they won't drop football to FCS. Which is correct. It's never happened and never will happen.

[MplsBison]

Carruthers seems to have backed off his earlier statements about dropping football or moving down. These comments were made early last spring. His new focus seems to be on strengthening the WAC by adding new members for Olympic Sports and becoming competitive in the Sun Belt for football. He is also watching the situation with the Sun Belt and James Madison....if that does not work out, he thinks NMSU might be considered for membership in the SBC for all sports.

I figured there was an actual, reasonable viewpoint on this "scoop". Thank you

[Catatonic]

He made the latest comments about dropping football on Friday during a luncheon. They've actually discussed having the athletic department file for bankruptcy.

This is what he said yesterday in an update on athletics to the Board of Regents:

http://crimsonaggieconnection.weebly.com/3/post/2013/10/nmsu-bor-meeting-athletic-news-102113.html






NMSU is in both the WAC (football) and Sunbelt (Olympic Sports) for the foreseeable future.
The Sunbelt is waiting to see what James Madison University does. Carruthers gets the feeling that the SBC would rather have them than us. We are too far west for a majority of the schools in the SBC.
Carruthers wants to see 2 or 3 more schools added to the WAC.
NMSU needs to help strengthen the WAC. NMSU might have to consider adding Men's Soccer in order to attract more schools to the WAC.
Conference realignment is still very fluid.


The BOR approved a motion to permit the sale of alcohol at the Pan Am Center, where NMSU plays BB. The Aggies Basketball season just got a lot more interesting.

[superman7515]

That is absurd.

- The athletic dept isn't a separate entity from the university.
- It's not a business.
- It doesn't have separate debts from the university that it owes.
- And I doubt it has debts at all. Who are the debt holders that would be out of luck if such a proposed "NMSU athletics bankruptcy" were allowed to pass?


If they want to drop football, fine. It will result in a near term spending decrease but ultimately will have a net negative effect on school pride, donations, the athletic department as a whole and the school as a whole.

They'll just end up restarting the program in 10-15 years at great cost.


The only guarantee in this whole thing: they won't drop football to FCS. Which is correct. It's never happened and never will happen.

I never said it was possible, plausible, likely, etc. I said he brought it up again on Friday at a luncheon. I think they would drop all together, and I think that's what he wants in the long term, but whichever route he chooses, I doubt it will be football friendly in the long run.

[marenlee]

Why is it such a death knell to move down to FCS? I know it most likely will never happen with any struggling FBS program, but is it really about the loss of alumni/fan support? I wish it would happen and would be successful just to show it wouldn't be so bad. But we'll never see it.

[superman7515]

The BOR approved a motion to permit the sale of alcohol at the Pan Am Center, where NMSU plays BB. The Aggies Basketball season just got a lot more interesting.

elaware has tried that for this football season for season ticket holders only. Hasn't really added anything and PD says they are getting more complaints from fans in the stands about behavior of others, which although I doubt every instance is related to alcohol sold inside, I'm sure that's what some will point to. I will be interested to see if it sticks in Delaware Stadium.

[Catatonic]

I never said it was possible, plausible, likely, etc. I said he brought it up again on Friday at a luncheon. I think they would drop all together, and I think that's what he wants in the long term, but whichever route he chooses, I doubt it will be football friendly in the long run.

He made a public statement to that effect last May. There was such an outcry about dropping down or out that he backed off his earlier statements. I am surprised to learn he would say anything at a public forum of any sort, although it would not surprise me if this was still his desire.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

That is absurd.

- The athletic dept isn't a separate entity from the university.
- It's not a business.

Yet when it comes to revenues, all the arguments for the last twenty years or more have centered around the departments' ability to "make money". Which is it?

[bkrownd]

Why is it such a death knell to move down to FCS?

Pride. We live in a culture of "bigger is better". These programs and their admins all want to play with the Big Boys, not Directional Podunk State Teacher's College.

[citdog]

Pride. We live in a culture of "bigger is better". These programs and their admins all want to play with the Big Boys, not Directional Podunk State Teacher's College.

and umass is certainly FAILING spectacularly and OUT LOUD!

GLAD it's happening to the WORST of the yankees!

[cmaxwellgsu]

Would flying to Big Sky locations be much better than flying to Sun Belt games?

The Sun Belt would probably be glad to see them go, so they'd only have one "out there" school left.

Of the two, most fans on the Sun Belt board want Idaho to leave. Most want NMSU to come in for all sports.

[marenlee]

Pride. We live in a culture of "bigger is better". These programs and their admins all want to play with the Big Boys, not Directional Podunk State Teacher's College.

I know you're being sarcastic, and I'm sure this question has been asked repeatedly. But what happens after a decade of 2-10 and <3,000 people showing up to games? Not saying this is how I want UMass to go (I cheer for all the former FCS teams). There are several FBS programs like that and they will probably not get any better. Is it still worth it to be a big boy?

[bkrownd]

Yep, it's still worth it to them to "play at the highest level". They'll always think they can fix things and find some level of success.

Besides, programs that are unsuccessful in FBS would probably also be unsuccessful in FCS. Their real problem is usually institutional.

[DSUrocks07]

Yep, it's still worth it to them to "play at the highest level". They'll always think they can fix things and find some level of success.

Besides, programs that are unsuccessful in FBS would probably also be unsuccessful in FCS. Their real problem is usually institutional.

95% of the time that's the case. xnodx

Either delusions of grandeur or complete disregard for financial competency.

[MplsBison]

Yet when it comes to revenues, all the arguments for the last twenty years or more have centered around the departments' ability to "make money". Which is it?

College athletics aren't a business and shouldn't be. End of story.

[Catatonic]

College athletics aren't a business and shouldn't be. End of story.

Modern universities are run like businesses. All units, academic and otherwise, are subject to profit/loss scrutiny.

Academic departments are reviewed based on semester hours they generate/sell balanced against costs to operate their unit. Majors that don't pay for themselves risk being dropped although exceptions are sometimes made for majors that are close to the mission of the university and/or faculty in programs with small enrollments generate lots of researh grants. Prospective new degree programs are reviewed in no small part based on projected revenue/popularity. Programs that cannot demonstrate they will attract new students to the university face an uphill battle for approval.

The economic value of athletics can be viewed from several perspectives--revenue vs expenses is the most obvious. Sports can also be justified as a marketing tool. Winning programs generate more student applications, which, in turn, sells more credit hours. Looked at in this way, sports programs that lose money may be kept around as long as they continue to win and attract or help retain students.

Crass, I know, for a university to be viewed in this way. Unfortunately as state legislatures continue to cut state funding, its the nature of the beast.

[F'N Hawks]

How bad is New Mexico State football? They just opened at a one point favorite over transitional FCS school Abilene Christian - at home.

[Catatonic]

How bad is New Mexico State football? They just opened at a one point favorite over transitional FCS school Abilene Christian - at home.

Hey, that's my team you are disrespecting there, bud.

OK, seriously, I reluctantly agree with you. ACU is still essentially a D2 team--redshirting almost all of our first FCS recruiting class and we only have a total of 42 FTE scholarships this year, including red shirts.

ACU has blown out some really bad D2 and NAIA teams and NMSU has been blown out by some really good BCS schools.

I guess Vegas likes blow out wins more than blow out losses, even though one school was playing NM Highlands while the other was playing UCLA.

[Twentysix]

Hey, that's my team you are disrespecting there, bud.

OK, seriously, I reluctantly agree with you. ACU is still essentially a D2 team--redshirting almost all of our first FCS recruiting class and we only have a total of 42 FTE scholarships this year, including red shirts.

ACU has blown out some really bad D2 and NAIA teams and NMSU has been blown out by some really good BCS schools.

I guess Vegas likes blow out wins more than blow out losses, even though one school was playing NM Highlands while the other was playing UCLA.

There is a difference between NM highlands and UCLA?

[F'N Hawks]

Hey, that's my team you are disrespecting there, bud.

OK, seriously, I reluctantly agree with you. ACU is still essentially a D2 team--redshirting almost all of our first FCS recruiting class and we only have a total of 42 FTE scholarships this year, including red shirts.

ACU has blown out some really bad D2 and NAIA teams and NMSU has been blown out by some really good BCS schools.

I guess Vegas likes blow out wins more than blow out losses, even though one school was playing NM Highlands while the other was playing UCLA.

No disrespect at all. Part of line setting is public perception and obviously public perception was not involved in this at all, or they think NMSU is that bad and the public knows it. Either way, this line is eye-opening.