"The CCSU Problem"

[Lehigh Football Nation]

With Albany's loss, you'd think the discussion of the NEC getting a playoff team is finally over. Think again.

Consider this scenario (which could, absolutely, happen):

1) Albany and CCSU go undefeated. Albany finishes at 9-2, CCSU at 10-1.

2) The NEC has pledged that their winner goes to the Gridiron Classic. That team is Albany, going undefeated in the league.

3) Southland, OVC and Patriot continue play the rest of the year that they only deserve 1 bid. Gateway and A-10 beat up on each other, while Montana gets the autobid while Portland State loses against Oregon and one more Big Sky foe.

With Albany playing the GC, CCSU is still eligible for the playoffs. They go 10-1, with their only loss against a ranked team (at the time) in Albany. And, they have a SoCon win against a pretty good Georgia Southern team.

How do you deny them?

[TexasTerror]

SLC, OVC and PL get those spots...they can not be denied. However, they won't get the at-larges they, especially the SLC, typically get...

I'm not sure CCSU gets in the playoffs. They need a lot to happen between now and then...namely a lot of teams falling short of the seven Div I win column...

Isn't there a poster that annually provides that listing? Guess we'll see that in a few weeks...

[UNHWildCats]

If they play impresively, I would think under that scenerio you have to atleast look at them very seriously to get one of the last 2 spots.

[Pard4Life]

It would be a tough call LFN. Right now, it is clear the PL is deserving of only one team. Our OOC strength is very weak. Colgate lost to Monmouth. Lafayette... well.. can't beat an Ivy... Also, one would have to look at the GPI.

[Go...gate]

It would be a tough call LFN. Right now, it is clear the PL is deserving of only one team. Our OOC strength is very weak. Colgate lost to Monmouth. Lafayette... well.. can't beat an Ivy... Also, one would have to look at the GPI.

Agreed we are a one-bid conference this year. Can't help noticing, however, that some of our buddies seem to want to kick us out of the tournament altogether.

Having said that, A potential NEC qualifier for the NCAA tournament should play in the tournament. Let the second-place NEC club play the Pioneer in the mid-major postseason game.

[dbackjon]

Still too early to tell - but the way the season is going, it could happen. May not be enough playoff eligible teams otherwise!

[89Hen]

3) Southland, OVC and Patriot continue play the rest of the year that they only deserve 1 bid. Gateway and A-10 beat up on each other, while Montana gets the autobid while Portland State loses against Oregon and one more Big Sky foe.
Good question LFN. I think there are so many 'what ifs' that it's tough to say right now. I still think it will be tough...

A10: UNH, UMass, UR, JMU, TU, UD.... I think the A10 gets three at-large if there are enough at 8-3+

Gateway: SIU, ISU, UNI, YSU... two at-large

SoCon: loser of ASU/FU gets one

CalPoly is a decent bet

That's seven of eight right there without the Southland, OVC, PL, MEAC getting one.

[UAalum72]

Let the second-place NEC club play the Pioneer in the mid-major postseason game.
The agreement is for the NEC champion to play the GC, but says nothing about co-champions; if there be a two- or three-way tie at 6-1 the NEC should be able to pick its representative to the GC.

[siugrad99]

And if the stars all aline correctly and you turn to your left and pee in the wind you might get.... well pissed on. Give it up with your wing and prayer scenerios

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The MEAC looks as dicey as the Patriot, OVC, and Southlands for at-larges. Assuming Hampton rolls again, your best potential at-larges would be Bethune Cookman, Norfolk State, FAMU and Del State.

The best of these teams could go 9-2 - and none of them would have a win against a "marquee" (read: Top 25) team.

[siugrad99]

Dream Dream Dream... Dream... Dream Dream Dream

[UAalum72]

Dream Dream Dream... Dream... Dream Dream Dream
Why not? The games still have to be played

[downbythebeach]

SIUgrad is right for mocking you, what do you think this is a discussion board or something?xlolx xlolx

[JALMOND]

With Albany's loss, you'd think the discussion of the NEC getting a playoff team is finally over. Think again.

Consider this scenario (which could, absolutely, happen):

1) Albany and CCSU go undefeated. Albany finishes at 9-2, CCSU at 10-1.

2) The NEC has pledged that their winner goes to the Gridiron Classic. That team is Albany, going undefeated in the league.

3) Southland, OVC and Patriot continue play the rest of the year that they only deserve 1 bid. Gateway and A-10 beat up on each other, while Montana gets the autobid while Portland State loses against Oregon and one more Big Sky foe.

With Albany playing the GC, CCSU is still eligible for the playoffs. They go 10-1, with their only loss against a ranked team (at the time) in Albany. And, they have a SoCon win against a pretty good Georgia Southern team.

How do you deny them?

With that scenario, PSU would be 6-2 against I-AA, 1-2 against I-A, and second to Montana in the Big Sky. PSU losses would include Cal (going major bowling), Oregon (also going major bowling) and Montana (top 5 in I-AA). How do we lose out to the NEC with that resume?

[bluehenbillk]

And, they have a SoCon win against a pretty good Georgia Southern team.


That's looking shaky at best right now, they're probably around .500.

[UAalum72]

With that scenario, PSU would be 6-2 against I-AA, 1-2 against I-A, and second to Montana in the Big Sky. PSU losses would include Cal (going major bowling), Oregon (also going major bowling) and Montana (top 5 in I-AA). How do we lose out to the NEC with that resume?
East Coast bias

[aceinthehole]

I don't know if it is as much of a "problem" as it is a long shot.

Its way too early, but yes CCSU has the real potential to finish 10-1, 6-1 in the NEC. What that really means depends too much on what Albany, GSU, and others do. We do not hold our own destiny anymore. With just one conference loss, CCSU could fall to 2nd place behind UA if they continue to dominate on the defensive side of the ball for a full game - like they did vs. Central.

However, Stony Brook has proved that the NEC race is still wide open after beating a very formidable Monmouth squad. Albany has a lot to say about the NEC race as its travels to Stony Brook this Saturday in what could be the 2nd biggest NEC game ever - after the Danes won the biggest NEC game to date over CCSU.

What I like about CCSU heading into conference play:
- We have the best RB in the league in Hariston.
- Our OL is big and has opened holes for the backs and protected our QB.
- We likely have the 2nd best Defense in the NEC (behind Albany). We have held teams to limited scores. We don't need many points to win.
- Our special teams are good, and maybe tops in the league overall. We get great return yards on kickoffs and punts giving us great field position.
- We are hungry! The UA loss has sent a message to the team that we will have a dogfight every week.

Concerns:
- We lost our stater QB and are playing with someone who is inexperienced and not known as a great passer.
- We have to run to win and everyone know it - easy to stack the box.
- Punting isn't great (a few shanks, blocked punt by UA).
- Decent FG kicker, but he is young.
- Secondary is solid, but can give up the big plays (GSU 51 yrd TD).

Playoff talk is just speculation. We are plaing for a win each week. Maybe a stumble by UA will open up a shot at the NEC title. I can assure you we are not concered about the playoffs at all. We'll see where the chips fall come week 10 or so.

[dbackjon]

With that scenario, PSU would be 6-2 against I-AA, 1-2 against I-A, and second to Montana in the Big Sky. PSU losses would include Cal (going major bowling), Oregon (also going major bowling) and Montana (top 5 in I-AA). How do we lose out to the NEC with that resume?

You shouldn't.

[aceinthehole]

That's looking shaky at best right now, they're probably around .500.

That's not really accurate. Currently GSU is ranked #21, just behind #18 Delaware.

Again, the same things were said about Colgate last year. CCSU beat them in week 1, it was a fluke, Colagte sucks, etc. 'Gate went on to win the Patriot AQ was ranked around #25 in the end of season poll.

I'm not saying one win is a season, but the GSU win has signifigant value right now. Is it alone worth a playoff bid? I'm not so sure, but with a 10-1 record and a 5-point loss to Albany, maybe we get a good hard look.

As I said, too much is out of our control, so I don't worry much about this.

[Ruler 79]

As usual right on the money ACE!

UA (the team...not the fans) was never concerned by the thought of playoffs. If they had won out it would be a longshot for selection. The scenario Lehigh Nation laid out seems impossible but hey, ya never know.

If UA runs the table and has a crack at the NCAA's they will forfeit the Grid Iron Classic to play in the first round. This is not even a topic in camp. They want the NEC title and it starts Sat. Practice is going to be hell this week for them. Believe it or not UA took Cornell lightly the same way they did against Fordham. They are not good enough on offense yet to be that way.

I was surprised that Monmouth got handled....not so fast my friend. SBU had all the breaks go their way in the first half and turned them into points. SBU lost to Georgetown which is as bad as UA losing to Fordham.

Pro's

D Front 7 best in NEC and one of the best in country
UA qb is starting to play well.
O-line even though they should be dominating are wearing teams down.
The backs are big and physical. This Simmons kid although smaller is FAST
schedule going forward is easier until Monmouth (no onme is looking past SBU)

Cons

wr's not at full potential
Offense almost one dimensional
tendency to let down when not facing top competition(that is coaching)

[aceinthehole]

As usual right on the money ACE!

UA (the team...not the fans) was never concerned by the thought of playoffs. If they had won out it would be a longshot for selection. The scenario Lehigh Nation laid out seems impossible but hey, ya never know.

If UA runs the table and has a crack at the NCAA's they will forfeit the Grid Iron Classic to play in the first round. This is not even a topic in camp. They want the NEC title and it starts Sat. Practice is going to be hell this week for them. Believe it or not UA took Cornell lightly the same way they did against Fordham. They are not good enough on offense yet to be that way.

I was surprised that Monmouth got handled....not so fast my friend. SBU had all the breaks go their way in the first half and turned them into points. SBU lost to Georgetown which is as bad as UA losing to Fordham.

Pro's

D Front 7 best in NEC and one of the best in country
UA qb is starting to play well.
O-line even though they should be dominating are wearing teams down.
The backs are big and physical. This Simmons kid although smaller is FAST
schedule going forward is easier until Monmouth (no onme is looking past SBU)

Cons

wr's not at full potential
Offense almost one dimensional
tendency to let down when not facing top competition(that is coaching)

Exactly. Momouth fell asleep on SBU and it killed them. The Hawks made plenty of mistakes and "gave" a lot of points away, but still coach Piore (sp?) has SBU primed for the NEC race. Don't expect an easy game this Saturday.

Albany now has done the same thing (fell asleep) twice - to Fordham and Cornell. UA plays much better as an "underdog" than the favorite. They have the talent to win every game, but hasn't had the excution every quarter, so I know why you fans are frustrated.

On the bright side I think CCSU left everything on the field in Albany and were beat on that day by a better defense. Yes, our mistakes - the INT and blocked punt - hurt us really bad, but I felt like our guys played you with everything we had for 4 quarters. You stoped our best threat cold and Albany won. In my opinion its a credit to how good they can be!

[Dane96]

I agree with some of the logic here...and of course my NEC mate ACE (because frankly, he is pretty damned logical).

What I AM MISSING is how this logic would garner a bid for CCSU over Albany.

Everything said and done as above, Albany would be 9-2 (7-0). Wins- Delaware, Lehigh, CCSU and possibly Monmouth, depending on how they finish. CCSU would be 10-1 (6-1). Wins- Georgia Southern and possibly Monmouth.

Someone want to explain to me how a team with wins UA has and of course, in this scenerio, being the conference champion, gets excluded WHILE THE SECOND PLACE TEAM, CCSU with TOP WINS being less than that of Albany, gets in? Close losses to Fordham and Cornell still, though I PERSONALLY KNOW HOW GOOD SOUTHERN CT. is, will be better than CCSU's wins over Southern, Marist, and St. Peter's.

It is, in my best Dr. Spock impersonation, ILLOGICAL. Yes, the GIC is a contractual game, however it would make NO SENSE for the NEC to send their champ to that game when the champ, under the LFN scenerio of an NEC at-large selection, could go to the playoffs. They would break the contract, send UA to the playoffs and ask Patty V if she wants her boys to play CCSU, A PRETTY SOLID...IF NOT AS GOOD...SECOND OPTION>

That being said, it is a freakin' pipe dream. The NEC did their job, serving notice to the auto-bid leagues, the committee picking those leagues, and the teams they play on future schedules. I think they have done SUCH A GOOD JOB that you will see a few more LOSSES next year because the NEC is still a couple of years away from constantly challenging...and the full-scholly teams WILL NOT LOOK PAST THEM ANYMORE...sending the full-bore attack at NEC schools.

Still, a 9-2 (winning out) Albany team, as conference champ, would get the nod over the second place CCSU (which would be deserving as well...but illogical to keep the champ out...CCSU would be # 2 in this scenerio).

Not knocking CCSU...just the logic!

[dbackjon]

Dane96 - the logic is that Albany would be committed to the Gridiron Classic, and thus ineligible for the playoffs. this was part of the original post.

[aceinthehole]

I agree with some of the logic here...and of course my NEC mate ACE (because frankly, he is pretty damned logical).

What I AM MISSING is how this logic would garner a bid for CCSU over Albany.

Everything said and done as above, Albany would be 9-2 (7-0). Wins- Delaware, Lehigh, CCSU and possibly Monmouth, depending on how they finish. CCSU would be 10-1 (6-1). Wins- Georgia Southern and possibly Monmouth.

Someone want to explain to me how a team with wins UA has and of course, in this scenerio, being the conference champion, gets excluded WHILE THE SECOND PLACE TEAM, CCSU with TOP WINS being less than that of Albany, gets in? Close losses to Fordham and Cornell still, though I PERSONALLY KNOW HOW GOOD SOUTHERN CT. is, will be better than CCSU's wins over Southern, Marist, and St. Peter's.

It is, in my best Dr. Spock impersonation, ILLOGICAL. Yes, the GIC is a contractual game, however it would make NO SENSE for the NEC to send their champ to that game when the champ, under the LFN scenerio of an NEC at-large selection, could go to the playoffs. They would break the contract, send UA to the playoffs and ask Patty V if she wants her boys to play CCSU, A PRETTY SOLID...IF NOT AS GOOD...SECOND OPTION>

That being said, it is a freakin' pipe dream. The NEC did their job, serving notice to the auto-bid leagues, the committee picking those leagues, and the teams they play on future schedules. I think they have done SUCH A GOOD JOB that you will see a few more LOSSES next year because the NEC is still a couple of years away from constantly challenging...and the full-scholly teams WILL NOT LOOK PAST THEM ANYMORE...sending the full-bore attack at NEC schools.

Still, a 9-2 (winning out) Albany team, as conference champ, would get the nod over the second place CCSU (which would be deserving as well...but illogical to keep the champ out...CCSU would be # 2 in this scenerio).

Not knocking CCSU...just the logic!

Dane you're right. I don't see how a NEC team makes the playoffs this season, under any circumstances. It was a very longshot even before the games were played due to may factors (NEC conference strenght, final ranking of "big" OOC wins, Gridiron Classic, limited scholly bias, etc).

We have however put I-AA on notice and we could realistically end up with 3 teams (UA, CCSU, and Monmouth) in the unoffical top 35 - which is almost as wild as having a playoff team! It is not just a 1-team conference, but at least 3 teams that went aginst the I-AA establishment and won on the road!

Yes, we scheduled and won our big games. Is it enough this season? Probably not, but I don't care. CCSU made a name for itself for 2 years in a row now, and will work hard to be a contender in the years to come. The playoffs are certainly in our future at some point!

---
I think the "CCSU Problem" is really what will the schedule look like next year?

This goes for all NEC teams, not just CCSU. Will the PL back out of games vs. the NEC? Can we get mid- to low-tier scholly teams to play us at home? How do we avoid a road heavy OOC schedule while trying to avoid sub D-I teams or MAAC/PFL squads? What is the perfect SOS?

The NEC schedule next year will only be 6 games, giving each team 5 OOC opponents. I only know of 2 OOC games for CCSU next year vs. Stony Brook (I-AA Indy) and Souther Conn. St. (D-II).

IMO - This is the NEC's new "problem!"

[Dane96]

Dane96 - the logic is that Albany would be committed to the Gridiron Classic, and thus ineligible for the playoffs. this was part of the original post.

Understandable, but flawed. An invite to the NEC champ would cause that school, and the NEC to back out of the contract with the PFL, whatever PATTY V says!

[Dane96]

Dane you're right. I don't see how a NEC team makes the playoffs this season, under any circumstances. It was a very longshot even before the games were played due to may factors (NEC conference strenght, final ranking of "big" OOC wins, Gridiron Classic, limited scholly bias, etc).

We have however put I-AA on notice and we could realistically end up with 3 teams (UA, CCSU, and Monmouth) in the unoffical top 35 - which is almost as wild as having a playoff team! It is not just a 1-team conference, but at least 3 teams that went aginst the I-AA establishment and won on the road!

Yes, we scheduled and won our big games. Is it enough this season? Probably not, but I don't care. CCSU made a name for itself for 2 years in a row now, and will work hard to be a contender in the years to come. The playoffs are certainly in our future at some point!

---
I think the "CCSU Problem" is really what will the schedule look like next year?

This goes for all NEC teams, not just CCSU. Will the PL back out of games vs. the NEC? Can we get mid- to low-tier scholly teams to play us at home? How do we avoid a road heavy OOC schedule while trying to avoid sub D-I teams or MAAC/PFL squads? What is the perfect SOS?

The NEC schedule next year will only be 6 games, giving each team 5 OOC opponents. I only know of 2 OOC games for CCSU next year vs. Stony Brook (I-AA Indy) and Souther Conn. St. (D-II).

IMO - This is the NEC's new "problem!"

Agreed.

Albany is set to play at Colgate, at Fordham, home versus Stony Brook (Indy), and I believe either at Northeastern or Hofstra. Not sure of that...or the 5th game.

[Mr. C]

Understandable, but flawed. An invite to the NEC champ would cause that school, and the NEC to back out of the contract with the PFL, whatever PATTY V says!
I can't believe you are still grasping at straws. Here is the deal. The NCAA rules DO NOT allow the teams that play in the Bowl game between the PFL and the NEC to play ANY OTHER postseason games. The contract between the two teams requires the champions to play each other. The NEC has tiebreaking proceedure to cover this, just like any other league does. All of the presidents in the NEC and the PFL had to sign the agreement between the two leagues, according to what I've been told about the contract. There is NO WAY that a team in the NEC is going to back out of this game. It simply WILL NOT happen. The PFL would get the courts slap an injunction on the NEC so fast, its head would spin. The NCAA isn't going to allow something like a law suit over such a matter such as this. Now the team that doesn't go to the bowl will be discussed by the selection committee, if it has three or less losses, but it is still unlikely that either team could get into the playoff field as the NEC co-champ. About the only way that CCSU could get much consideration would be by going 10-1 and having Georgia Southern WIN the SoCon (which isn't likely to happen).

[Dane96]

I will allow you to read your PM...as opposed to my replying here. Let's just say: stick to football and not the law.

[*****]

I will allow you to read your PM...as opposed to my replying here. Let's just say: stick to football and not the law.Bottom line IMO, the NCAA will not choose a PFL or NEC champ this year or next for the playoffs due to the bylaw of the GC. The NEC made the deal, not the PFL. Don't drag Patty Viverito's (or John Iamarino's) good name through the mud please.

From what I understand the NEC wanted a guaranteed postseason game while they ramped up scholarships and the PFL wanted a guaranteed postseason game. The legis is on the docket for a non-schollie postseason champ game now and after these two years we shall see how that goes.

[grizband]

SLC, OVC and PL get those spots...they can not be denied. However, they won't get the at-larges they, especially the SLC, typically get...

I'm not sure CCSU gets in the playoffs. They need a lot to happen between now and then...namely a lot of teams falling short of the seven Div I win column...

Isn't there a poster that annually provides that listing? Guess we'll see that in a few weeks...
TT, I posted this list last year. I am going to wait a couple of more weeks, until more teams are mathematically eliminated from post-season play.

[UAalum72]

Iamarino resigned effective 1/1/2006. The Gridiron Classic deal was announced in May 2006. Brenda Weare became the NEC commissioner on August 1.

Was this 'deal' made by the NEC interim commissioner Ratner (which seems like pretty fast negotiating), or was it proposed by Iamarino, who was already gone to the Southern Conference by the time it was signed (in which case, amazingly, BOTH commissioners in this deal had conflicts of interest between their non-playoff conferences and auto-bid conferences)?

[Dane96]

Bottom line IMO, the NCAA will not choose a PFL or NEC champ this year or next for the playoffs due to the bylaw of the GC. The NEC made the deal, not the PFL. Don't drag Patty Viverito's (or John Iamarino's) good name through the mud please.

From what I understand the NEC wanted a guaranteed postseason game while they ramped up scholarships and the PFL wanted a guaranteed postseason game. The legis is on the docket for a non-schollie postseason champ game now and after these two years we shall see how that goes.


Ralph, I didnt need bold for you to tell me that. For the record, however, I stated your EXACT same idea to Mr. C last night. Even if Albany went 10-1...the NCAA more than liklely would have used the GC as the reason to have keep out the NEC team. That...is a pretty solid piece of reasoning.

[Dane96]

And...I am not dragging anyone's name through the mud. It is clear however, from Patty's statements on your show, that she has a clouded view on the legal tenets of this issue.

ALL CONTRACTS (unless you risk death living in a third world country for breaking them) are DESIGNED TO BE BROKEN.

The most basic principle of law is the contract. A contract does NOT IRREVOCABLY BIND TWO or MORE PARTIES. It's main principle is to lay out the terms of the agreement in such a way that one party would have legal rights against the other if the other BROKE the terms.

Contracts that are designed not to be broken clearly have language saying so. THEY ARE RARELY, IF EVER, SIGNED. Furthermore, adhesion contracts (when one party uses its weight to force terms on a lesser party (think insurance documents)) are usually deemed void.

Point is, the PFL/NEC GC arrangement is neither an absolute contract nor an adhesion contract.

IT is a simple contract designed, and protected against, to be broken.

[Hansel]

just looked at CCSU's schedule again- the funny thing is their non-conf IAA opponents may be worse their than sub DI con conf opponents :eek:

[bobbythekidd]

About the only way that CCSU could get much consideration would be by going 10-1 and having Georgia Southern WIN the SoCon (which isn't likely to happen).
GSU is 1-1 in conference play right now. Still on the horizon is an away game against an extremly strong Fuman and the 05 Nat Champ App State. I don't think it is going to happen.:nonono2: I wish it would, I would like a do-over.:mad: :nod:

[aceinthehole]

just looked at CCSU's schedule again- the funny thing is their non-conf IAA opponents may be worse their than sub DI con conf opponents :eek:

You're right! Although a D-II school, Southern Connecticut State (D-II, Northeast-10 Conference) is a much better and stronger team than Marist or St. Peter's. It also has a much stronger football history than many I-AA teams.

First, Southern leads the serise over Central 35-16, and all but the last 8 were played when both teams were D-II. In fact, Southern is now 4-4 vs. I-AA Central teams. This is a heated in-state rivalry that began in 1949.

Last season, Southern was ranked in the top-10 in D-II and reached the playoffs. They are currently 3-2 this season, but will likely finish well above .500 Over the last ten season, Southern has a record of 83-32. They have had only 5 losing seasons in the past 21 years under current HC Rich Cavanaugh.

And Southern actually has a decent history of puting players and coaches in the NFL. Joe Andruzzi (OL, Green Bay/New England/Cleveland) and Jacques Cesaire (DL, San Diego) are current SCSU alumns playing right now. Former NY Jets DL Scott Mersereau was drafted out of Southern in the 5th Round in 1986. Also, Kevin Gilbride (current QB coach w/ NY Giants and former HC of the Chargers) and Chris Palmer (current Dallas QB coach) are also SCSU alumns.

http://www.southernowls.com/teams/football/home.php

However, they do not compare to GSU. Southern Conn. is one of those top D-II schools that IMO would compete very well against the bottom half of I-AA teams and win a fair share of games.