AGS Poll Results - Week 7 2013

[AGSPoll]

Results for 10/14/2013 AGS Poll:



1
North Dakota State Bison
1700
68


2
Sam Houston State Bearkats
1572



3
Eastern Illinois Panthers
1533



4
Fordham Rams
1415



5
Eastern Washington Eagles
1325



6
Coastal Carolina Chanticleers
1218



7
Towson Tigers
1205



8
Maine Black Bears
1146



9
Villanova Wildcats
1132



10
Montana State Bobcats
1090



11
Northern Iowa Panthers
1070



12
Youngstown State Penguins
976



13
McNeese State Cowboys
947



14
Montana Grizzlies
884



15
Southern Illinois Salukis
559



16
Wofford Terriers
549



17
Bethune-Cookman Wildcats
535



18
Samford Bulldogs
418



19
Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
408



20
South Dakota State Jackrabbits
403



21
James Madison Dukes
340



22
William & Mary Tribe
280



23
Tennessee State Tigers
254



24
Charleston Southern Buccaneers
247



25
Lehigh Mountain Hawks
239
















Most Significant Win:





Villanova Wildcats











Most Significant Loss:





Northern Iowa Panthers











ORV:




26
Southeastern Louisiana Lions
154



27
Cal Poly Mustangs
147



28
Harvard Crimson
83



29
Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
65



30
South Carolina State Bulldogs
42



31
Central Arkansas Bears
37



32
Southern Utah Thunderbirds
33



33
Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
27



34T
Jacksonville State Gamecocks
16



34T
Chattanooga Mocs
16



36
Yale Bulldogs
12



37
New Hampshire Wildcats
11



38T
Stony Brook Seawolves
5



38T
Princeton Tigers
5



40
Jackson State Tigers
1

[BisonBacker]

No shockers there.

[gotts]

No shockers there.

Correct, Wichita St. does not have football :D

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Eastern Illinois Panthers
3: Fordham Rams
4: Sam Houston State Bearkats
5: Villanova Wildcats
6: Coastal Carolina Chanticleers
7: Towson Tigers
8: Maine Black Bears
9: Eastern Washington Eagles
10: Youngstown State Penguins
11: Montana State Bobcats
12: Southern Illinois Salukis
13: Northern Iowa Panthers
14: McNeese State Cowboys
15: William & Mary Tribe
16: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
17: James Madison Dukes
18: Montana Grizzlies
19: Lehigh Mountain Hawks
20: Samford Bulldogs
21: Tennessee State Tigers
22: Wofford Terriers
23: Bethune-Cookman Wildcats
24: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
25: South Dakota State Jackrabbits

[LehighU11]

Here's mine:
1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Fordham Rams
3: Maine Black Bears
4: Sam Houston State Bearkats
5: Eastern Illinois Panthers
6: Coastal Carolina Chanticleers
7: Eastern Washington Eagles
8: Villanova Wildcats
9: Youngstown State Penguins
10: Towson Tigers
11: Northern Iowa Panthers
12: Montana State Bobcats
13: William & Mary Tribe
14: Samford Bulldogs
15: McNeese State Cowboys
16: James Madison Dukes
17: Montana Grizzlies
18: Southern Illinois Salukis
19: Southern Utah Thunderbirds
20: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
21: Tennessee State Tigers
22: Lehigh Mountain Hawks
23: Wofford Terriers
24: Charleston Southern Buccaneers
25: Harvard Crimson

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

No shockers there.

No way should Towson be ahead if Villanova...

[Fear the Bird]

Little bit surprised at the minimal punishment to Towson - they got smoked at home

[Tealblood]

I would have thought that SCstate should have moved up more
2 losses
1 to now #6 CCU
1 to #3 FBS Clemson

[Fear the Bird]

1
North Dakota State Bison


2
Sam Houston State Bearkats


3
Eastern Illinois Panthers


4
Fordham Rams


5
Eastern Washington Eagles


6
Villanova Wildcats


7
Northern Iowa Panthers


8
Montana State Bobcats


9
Coastal Carolina Chanticleers


10
Youngstown State Penguins


11
Maine Black Bears


12
McNeese State Cowboys


13
Towson Tigers


14
Southern Illinois Salukis


15
Northern Arizona Lumberjacks


16
Montana Grizzlies


17
Bethune-Cookman Wildcats


18
Tennessee State Tigers


19
South Dakota State Jackrabbits


20
Southeastern Louisiana Lions


21
Wofford Terriers


22
Lehigh Mountain Hawks


23
South Carolina State Bulldogs


24
Samford Bulldogs


25
Charleston Southern Buccaneers

[Professor Chaos]

Here was my ballot this week, I was pretty happy with it although there were a few teams that I had to leave out that are very very close to being in my top 25 (Chatty, SC State, Chuck South, W&M).


1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Sam Houston State Bearkats
3: Eastern Illinois Panthers
4: Eastern Washington Eagles
5: Fordham Rams
6: Villanova Wildcats
7: Montana State Bobcats
8: Towson Tigers
9: Maine Black Bears
10: Montana Grizzlies
11: Coastal Carolina Chanticleers
12: Youngstown State Penguins
13: Bethune-Cookman Wildcats
14: Southern Illinois Salukis
15: Northern Iowa Panthers
16: McNeese State Cowboys
17: Samford Bulldogs
18: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
19: Wofford Terriers
20: James Madison Dukes
21: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
22: Lehigh Mountain Hawks
23: Tennessee State Tigers
24: Southeastern Louisiana Lions
25: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks

[superman7515]

Towson still higher than Villanova? But Fordham > Villanova > Towson

Maine > Delaware > James Madison... Why is James Madison ranked?

[JMUNJ08]

Work is killing me this year. 2nd time I did not get my poll in on time...Anyways, here is what I had:

1. NDSU
2. SHSU
3. E. Illinois
4. E. Washington
5. Maine
6. Fordham
7. Towson
8. Coastal Carolina
9. Montana St.
10. McNeese State
11. Youngstown St.
12. Villanova
13. Montana
14. N. Iowa
15. JMU
16. Charleston Southern
17. Bethune Cookman
18. Tennessee State
19. Samford
20. Wofford
21. S. Illinois
22. S. Utah
23. Lehigh
24. SE Louisiana
25. Delaware

Win: Villanova
Loss: N. Iowa

Before the vultures decent, Nova moved up 8 spots in my poll and S. Illinois was not highly regarded on my end before this week. If more losses occurred in my poll from last week, they would have been higher.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

No shockers there.

Yeah Montana drops a few spots with their most dominant win this season and considering the strength of the teams above them it's the way it should probably go down. A lot of really good teams up there.

[LehighU11]

Little bit surprised at the minimal punishment to Towson - they got smoked at home

I am as well. I dropped them from 2 to 10, which may be a bit harsh, but they fell behind 14-0 against Stony Brook and 21-0 against UNH the past two games after the 1st quarter. If I didn't know better, I'd say that Lehigh put on some black and gold uniforms and headed down to Maryland the past few weeks. Ambrose and his bunch better get their act together before the playoffs, because these slow starts will come back to bite them.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I'm surprised to see SUU showing up. They're a middling BSC team....

[superman7515]

I'm surprised to see SUU showing up. They're a middling BSC team....

West Coast Bias.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Little bit surprised at the minimal punishment to Towson - they got smoked at home

I watched it and I saw a team that definitely gave a game away with a lot of turnovers and still a very strong team which had a chance to bring it back late. Villanova is also a very good team no doubt about it but the fact that Towson doesn't drop below them isn't that big a shock to me.

[Fear the Bird]

Yeah Montana drops a few spots with their most dominant win this season and considering the strength of the teams above them it's the way it should probably go down. A lot of really good teams up there.

Yes this is interesting that Montana drops this week of all weeks. Mostly a result of Nova, SIU with big wins, I would guess bumping some other teams up in front of them, rather than dropping Montana

[JMUNJ08]

Towson still higher than Villanova? But Fordham > Villanova > Towson

Maine > Delaware > James Madison... Why is James Madison ranked?

I think the 2 early losses (I know both being quality teams though in BC & Fordham), moved Nova down really low on my ballot and actually out at 1 point. I jumped them from 20 to 12 but couldn't really move others down further. Yes, it was at Towson, but I have really liked the Tigers this year. No reason to go from #3 in my poll to #12/13 essentially. Fordham is ahead of both so I got that piece.

As for the other 3, Maine clearly is the winner there. While I have JMU #15 & Delaware #25, I do have my reasons. Home game @ UD with JMU giving 2 drives starting at their own 15 to Delaware = gift wrapped game. Switch venues and JMU probably wins at home (don't see a major advantage for UD). Apples to Apples - JMU smokes Albany, UD barely escapes; both at Home.

Other losses - JMU by 2 to Akron (a TO left away from going for the GW FG); UD - SMOKED by Maine & loss to Navy.

Otherwise, voters were higher on JMU entering the season than Delware. While it shouldn't count, many voters probably still have that in mind when putting everything together.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Yes this is interesting that Montana drops this week of all weeks. Mostly a result of Nova, SIU with big wins, I would guess bumping some other teams up in front of them, rather than dropping Montana

Yes and that is at it should be. Those teams showed some real "worthiness" so as I've argued with others before it isn't necessarily about whether your team won or not it's about what others around you did as well. I like that most voting members don't hold to some dumb slot voting or you can only move up or down a certain number of spots based on a win or a loss.

[bluehenbillk]

Pretty good poll

1-14 no complaints.

Too High: SIU, B-Cook, SDSU, JMU

Too low: Tn-Mart, SELA

[BlueHenSinfonian]

Looks like things are beginning to really come together. Here's mine:

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Eastern Illinois Panthers
3: Towson Tigers
4: Maine Black Bears
5: Fordham Rams
6: Coastal Carolina Chanticleers
7: Villanova Wildcats
8: Northern Iowa Panthers
9: Sam Houston State Bearkats
10: Montana State Bobcats
11: Eastern Washington Eagles
12: McNeese State Cowboys
13: Montana Grizzlies
14: Youngstown State Penguins
15: Wofford Terriers
16: Bethune-Cookman Wildcats
17: Charleston Southern Buccaneers
18: Lehigh Mountain Hawks
19: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
20: James Madison Dukes
21: William & Mary Tribe
22: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
23: Tennessee State Tigers
24: Southern Utah Thunderbirds
25: Samford Bulldogs

[Professor Chaos]

Looks like things are beginning to really come together. Here's mine:

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Eastern Illinois Panthers
3: Towson Tigers
4: Maine Black Bears
5: Fordham Rams
6: Coastal Carolina Chanticleers
7: Villanova Wildcats
8: Northern Iowa Panthers
9: Sam Houston State Bearkats
10: Montana State Bobcats
11: Eastern Washington Eagles
12: McNeese State Cowboys
13: Montana Grizzlies
14: Youngstown State Penguins
15: Wofford Terriers
16: Bethune-Cookman Wildcats
17: Charleston Southern Buccaneers
18: Lehigh Mountain Hawks
19: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
20: James Madison Dukes
21: William & Mary Tribe
22: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
23: Tennessee State Tigers
24: Southern Utah Thunderbirds
25: Samford Bulldogs
UNI at #8 but no SIU?

[superman7515]

I think the 2 early losses (I know both being quality teams though in BC & Fordham), moved Nova down really low on my ballot and actually out at 1 point. I jumped them from 20 to 12 but couldn't really move others down further. Yes, it was at Towson, but I have really liked the Tigers this year. No reason to go from #3 in my poll to #12/13 essentially. Fordham is ahead of both so I got that piece.

As for the other 3, Maine clearly is the winner there. While I have JMU #15 & Delaware #25, I do have my reasons. Home game @ UD with JMU giving 2 drives starting at their own 15 to Delaware = gift wrapped game. Switch venues and JMU probably wins at home (don't see a major advantage for UD). Apples to Apples - JMU smokes Albany, UD barely escapes; both at Home.

Other losses - JMU by 2 to Akron (a TO left away from going for the GW FG); UD - SMOKED by Maine & loss to Navy.

Otherwise, voters were higher on JMU entering the season than Delware. While it shouldn't count, many voters probably still have that in mind when putting everything together.

Sorry, I wasn't speaking to you specifically, we just happened to be posting at the same time, so it appeared that way. But let's not forget that UD drove 75 yards to score the winning touchdown, held Dae’Quan Scott (who came in #2 in the FCS at 148 ypg) to 51 yards, actually turned the ball over more than JMU (2 first half interceptions are why the Dukes were able to jump out to the big lead, the first one was especially ugly), and still won the game.

http://www.thefightinhens.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/mickey2-420x407.jpg

[BlueHenSinfonian]

UNI at #8 but no SIU?

Yeah, it was a tough call. SIU and SDSU both have arguments going for them for inclusion, but I felt there were teams with less than three losses which were more deserving this week.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Chuck South ahead of Lehigh leaps out to me. So to voters, 8 point win over VMI > double-digit win over Columbia? Mmmmkay.

Also, fail to see voters' love affair with JMU. I'd put Delaware ahead of them.

[andy7171]

Hopefully this will be a wake up call to Towson. They can't expect to fall back and come roaring back against quality opponents.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I finally feel like we're able to do something without so much guessing.

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Sam Houston State Bearkats
3: Eastern Illinois Panthers
4: Fordham Rams
5: Eastern Washington Eagles
6: Villanova Wildcats
7: Towson Tigers
8: Coastal Carolina Chanticleers
9: Montana State Bobcats
10: Northern Iowa Panthers
11: Maine Black Bears
12: Montana Grizzlies
13: McNeese State Cowboys
14: Youngstown State Penguins
15: Southern Illinois Salukis
16: Wofford Terriers
17: Bethune-Cookman Wildcats
18: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
19: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
20: James Madison Dukes
21: Samford Bulldogs
22: Charleston Southern Buccaneers
23: South Carolina State Bulldogs
24: Tennessee State Tigers
25: William & Mary Tribe

[Walkon79]

No issues really. I think overall this is still the best poll.

[van]

Chuck South ahead of Lehigh leaps out to me. So to voters, 8 point win over VMI > double-digit win over Columbia? Mmmmkay.

Also, fail to see voters' love affair with JMU. I'd put Delaware ahead of them.

Lotta Lehigh and PL haters out there. Should be no surprise Chuck.

[bjtheflamesfan]

Rip to shreds as you see fit, but here is my ballot for this week (I had to use the How They Fared for the week to set my ballot after the debacle on my last one:

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Sam Houston State Bearkats
3: Eastern Illinois Panthers
4: Fordham Rams
5: Eastern Washington Eagles
6: Coastal Carolina Chanticleers
7: Montana State Bobcats
8: Maine Black Bears
9: Montana Grizzlies
10: Youngstown State Penguins
11: McNeese State Cowboys
12: Villanova Wildcats
13: Northern Iowa Panthers
14: Wofford Terriers
15: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
16: Bethune-Cookman Wildcats
17: Southern Illinois Salukis
18: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
19: James Madison Dukes
20: Samford Bulldogs
21: Lehigh Mountain Hawks
22: Charleston Southern Buccaneers
23: Cal Poly Mustangs
24: William & Mary Tribe
25: Tennessee State Tigers

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Lotta Lehigh and PL haters out there. Should be no surprise Chuck.

The outwardly hatred towards the two is a bit disturbing....

[BlueHenSinfonian]

Lotta Lehigh and PL haters out there. Should be no surprise Chuck.

One loss for lehigh, none for Chuck South. SOS looks similar, though Lehigh may have a slight edge there. The UNH win is the best out of both groups, but I'd say it's really a toss up between the two.

[RichH2]

My guess is we talk too much for their liking given trolling o fPL threadsxrotatehx

[superman7515]

Rip to shreds as you see fit, but here is my ballot for this week (I had to use the How They Fared for the week to set my ballot after the debacle on my last one:

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Sam Houston State Bearkats
3: Eastern Illinois Panthers
4: Fordham Rams
5: Eastern Washington Eagles
6: Coastal Carolina Chanticleers
7: Montana State Bobcats
8: Maine Black Bears
9: Montana Grizzlies
10: Youngstown State Penguins
11: McNeese State Cowboys
12: Villanova Wildcats
13: Northern Iowa Panthers
14: Wofford Terriers
15: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
16: Bethune-Cookman Wildcats
17: Southern Illinois Salukis
18: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
19: James Madison Dukes
20: Samford Bulldogs
21: Lehigh Mountain Hawks
22: Charleston Southern Buccaneers
23: Cal Poly Mustangs
24: William & Mary Tribe
25: Tennessee State Tigers

No Towson at all BJ?

[citdog]

Lotta Lehigh and PL haters out there. Should be no surprise Chuck.

Charleston Southern has won at Johnson Hagood Stadium and at Kidd-Brewer. Both more impressive wins than Lehigh has. Now if y'all had been able to even stay with Fordham you might have an argument.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

One loss for lehigh, none for Chuck South. SOS looks similar, though Lehigh may have a slight edge there. The UNH win is the best out of both groups, but I'd say it's really a toss up between the two.

A slight edge? CSU has played Citadel, Shorter, Campbell, Norfolk State, App State, North Greenville and VMI. Two D2 schools!

[LeeshaJo]

dang it, I knew there was something I forgot to do last night. xbawlingx

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Charleston Southern has won at Johnson Hagood Stadium and at Kidd-Brewer. Both more impressive wins than Lehigh has. Now if y'all had been able to even stay with Fordham you might have an argument.


A slight edge? CSU has played Citadel, Shorter, Campbell, Norfolk State, App State, North Greenville and VMI. Two D2 schools!

Citdog is actually right on this one for a change.

[citdog]

A slight edge? CSU has played Citadel, Shorter, Campbell, Norfolk State, App State, North Greenville and VMI. Two D2 schools!

and your best win is PRINCETON! The wins for the Bucs over The Citadel, Appy, and VMI are all better wins.

[JMUNJ08]

A slight edge? CSU has played Citadel, Shorter, Campbell, Norfolk State, App State, North Greenville and VMI. Two D2 schools!

There are still 5 D1 wins in there with a giant goose egg in the 'L' column....

[JMUNJ08]

Sorry, I wasn't speaking to you specifically, we just happened to be posting at the same time, so it appeared that way. But let's not forget that UD drove 75 yards to score the winning touchdown, held Dae’Quan Scott (who came in #2 in the FCS at 148 ypg) to 51 yards, actually turned the ball over more than JMU (2 first half interceptions are why the Dukes were able to jump out to the big lead, the first one was especially ugly), and still won the game.

http://www.thefightinhens.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/mickey2-420x407.jpg

Supe, I know it wasn't meant for me directly but giving one voters opinion. Appreciate you helping to take of my 'Homer' glasses little with the extra facts from the other side. Also, I loathe MM myself, so I enjoyed the above pic!

[Twentysix]

Yes and that is at it should be. Those teams showed some real "worthiness" so as I've argued with others before it isn't necessarily about whether your team won or not it's about what others around you did as well. I like that most voting members don't hold to some dumb slot voting or you can only move up or down a certain number of spots based on a win or a loss.

The only way that could work is if ones preseason poll wasn't completely asinine. Which isn't ever the case, lol.

[Gil Dobie]

Surprised that Youngstown is so low. 1 loss, an FBS loss, win over SIU, and still below UNI.

[Twentysix]

Surprised that Youngstown is so low. 1 loss, an FBS loss, win over SIU, and still below UNI.

YSU is my #5 lol. I'm sure they will blow it soon.

Wolford has shown me that he is an epic choke artist.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

and your best win is PRINCETON! The wins for the Bucs over The Citadel, Appy, and VMI are all better wins.

Please tell the jury why a win over 1-5 App State is better than a win over 2-3
UNH. Appy has been horrific. UNH has their chance this week....

VMI hasn't had a winning season in 20+ years...

[bjtheflamesfan]

No Towson at all BJ?

I was already planning on dropping Towson a good bit for the loss, I guess I made an oversight once I got past 13 and I was trying to fit in the teams I thought best fit while minimizing the amount of butthurt that would result. They would have gone in at around the 13-14 spot around where UNI ended up for their loss

[LeeshaJo]

Curiosity, this is my first year doing the poll and I am finding it is hard to separate out the 15-35 range... is it typical to have so many teams that probably should be top 25 but there just are not enough spaces?

[BlueHenSinfonian]

Curiosity, this is my first year doing the poll and I am finding it is hard to separate out the 15-35 range... is it typical to have so many teams that probably should be top 25 but there just are not enough spaces?

It can happen. There are a few clear standouts this year, and a bunch of teams that look pretty good on paper, but haven't played their tough conference games yet to sort themselves out.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I was already planning on dropping Towson a good bit for the loss, I guess I made an oversight once I got past 13 and I was trying to fit in the teams I thought best fit while minimizing the amount of butthurt that would result. They would have gone in at around the 13-14 spot around where UNI ended up for their loss

forget that OWN IT. Darn right Towson is out!!!

[superman7515]

I was already planning on dropping Towson a good bit for the loss, I guess I made an oversight once I got past 13 and I was trying to fit in the teams I thought best fit while minimizing the amount of butthurt that would result. They would have gone in at around the 13-14 spot around where UNI ended up for their loss

So imagining you had put in Towson at #13, that gives them 12 extra points, leaving them at just 1 point behind Coastal Carolina for #6, and 75 points ahead of #9 Villanova who just beat them 48 hours ago in Towson. That leads me to a question for the general voting populace... Why?

[citdog]

Please tell the jury why a win over 1-5 App State is better than a win over 3-3
UNH....

VMI hasn't had a winning season in 20+ years...

unh is overrated. App St, with Price, is better than their record indicates. Without Price not so much. Going into General Johnson Hagood and the Rock and winning is impressive. VMI is not an easy place to play either. Those are three pretty impressive ROAD wins. More so than eeking out victories over Monmouth, and Central Conn.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Here's a question...

At what point does head-2-head become less of a factor?

[HensRock]

SIU too low.
Real close losses to BCS Illinois (8 points), #3 EIU in week 2 (3 points) and #12 YSU (who I also think is too low) by 1 point.
Meanwhile they beat #11 UNI and #20 SDSU both on the road!

YSU's only loss is to Michigan State


Also SE Louisiana is getting SERIOUSLY OVERLOOKED !
They were #15 in my ballot.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

SIU too low.
Real close losses to BCS Illinois (8 points), #3 EIU in week 2 (3 points) and #12 YSU (who I also think is too low) by 1 point.
Meanwhile they beat #11 UNI and #20 SDSU both on the road!

YSU's only loss is to Michigan State


Also SE Louisiana is getting SERIOUSLY OVERLOOKED !
They were #15 in my ballot.

SELA was in my Top 25 this week, they've earned it. Probably should have put them ahead of Samford, but waiting for one more show-me game I think before doing so.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

unh is overrated. App St, with Price, is better than their record indicates. Without Price not so much. Going into General Johnson Hagood and the Rock and winning is impressive. VMI is not an easy place to play either. Those are three pretty impressive ROAD wins. More so than eeking out victories over Monmouth, and Central Conn.

To credit CSU with a road win over VMI and then "mock" Lehigh winning at Princeton is blatant ignorance....

You vote right?

[IBleedYellow]

I feel pretty good.

Nova should be in front of Towson, though, messed that one up.

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Sam Houston State Bearkats
3: Eastern Illinois Panthers
4: Fordham Rams
5: Coastal Carolina Chanticleers
6: Eastern Washington Eagles
7: Montana State Bobcats
8: Maine Black Bears
9: Towson Tigers
10: Youngstown State Penguins
11: Southern Illinois Salukis
12: Villanova Wildcats
13: Montana Grizzlies
14: Northern Iowa Panthers
15: McNeese State Cowboys
16: Wofford Terriers
17: Charleston Southern Buccaneers
18: Samford Bulldogs
19: Bethune-Cookman Wildcats
20: James Madison Dukes
21: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
22: Tennessee State Tigers
23: Lehigh Mountain Hawks
24: William & Mary Tribe
25: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Lehigh's win over 2-3 UNH: "They're overrated! Don't live in the past! It's not a quailty win!"
Chuck South's win over 1-5 App: "What a great win! It's always difficult to win at the Rock! Rah! Rah! Rah!"

xrolleyesx

[HensRock]

Chuck South ahead of Lehigh leaps out to me. So to voters, 8 point win over VMI > double-digit win over Columbia? Mmmmkay.

Also, fail to see voters' love affair with JMU. I'd put Delaware ahead of them.

You can't have your cake and eat it too, Chuck.
CSU is 7-0 while playing absolutely no one!
How does it feel having the shoe on the other foot for a change?

[Grizalltheway]

Rip to shreds as you see fit, but here is my ballot for this week (I had to use the How They Fared for the week to set my ballot after the debacle on my last one:

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Sam Houston State Bearkats
3: Eastern Illinois Panthers
4: Fordham Rams
5: Eastern Washington Eagles
6: Coastal Carolina Chanticleers
7: Montana State Bobcats
8: Maine Black Bears
9: Montana Grizzlies
10: Youngstown State Penguins
11: McNeese State Cowboys
12: Villanova Wildcats
13: Northern Iowa Panthers
14: Wofford Terriers
15: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
16: Bethune-Cookman Wildcats
17: Southern Illinois Salukis
18: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
19: James Madison Dukes
20: Samford Bulldogs
21: Lehigh Mountain Hawks
22: Charleston Southern Buccaneers
23: Cal Poly Mustangs
24: William & Mary Tribe
25: Tennessee State Tigers

Well, at least SOMEONE is giving us the respect we deserve. xbowx

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

You can't have your cake and eat it too, Chuck.
CSU is 7-0 while playing absolutely no one!
How does it feel having the shoe on the other foot for a change?

Lehigh hasn't played a D2 team in 25+ years. If LU had CSU's schedule the rage would be rampant....

CSU will be able to prove their worth. To this point their schedule has been horrific. Beat CCU and or LU i'll believe some...

[citdog]

To credit CSU with a road win over VMI and then "mock" Lehigh winning at Princeton is blatant ignorance....




VMI is a tougher place to play than Princeton is. Been to both.

[citdog]

Lehigh hasn't played a D2 team in 25+ years. If LU had CSU's schedule the rage would be rampant....

CSU will be able to prove their worth. To this point their schedule has been horrific. Beat CCU and or LU i'll believe some...

actually not......The Citadel and Appy are tougher games than all but one of yours.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

Also SE Louisiana is getting SERIOUSLY OVERLOOKED !
They were #15 in my ballot.

I'm curious, what do you see in SELA? They have 1 sort of good win vs Samford, the rest are all vs junk (1-5 SEMO, startup Incarnate Word with no D1 wins, and SFA with 1 D1 win). They have a loss to TCU, which is fine, but another to SDSU, who's presence in the poll also confuses me.

[HensRock]

Lehigh hasn't played a D2 team in 25+ years. If LU had CSU's schedule the rage would be rampant....

CSU will be able to prove their worth. To this point their schedule has been horrific. Beat CCU and or LU i'll believe some...

You don't have to convince me. I don't have either one of them ranked. Nor do I have JMU or UD which was your other conundrum.

I just find it hilarious that you of all people is crying over a team being ranked because of a good record against a weak schedule!
xlolx

[superman7515]

Well, at least SOMEONE is giving us the respect we deserve. xbowx

No offense but AppSt is 1-5, North Dakota is 2-4, Oklahoma Panhandle is D2, Portland State is 3-4 but only 1 win against D1 competition, and UC Davis is 1-5. I have them ranked in the Top 15, but they aren't cracking my Top 10 with their current schedule.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

You don't have to convince me. I don't have either one of them ranked. Nor do I have JMU or UD which was your other conundrum.

I just find it hilarious that you of all people is crying over a team being ranked because of a good record against a weak schedule!
xlolx

Yeah, putting a team on the schedule with 9 consecutive trips to the playoffs and the No. 4 AGS-ranked team in the country - what a weak schedule. xrolleyesx

Let's PLEASE stack this up against Chuck South's schedule.

[ElCid]

I find it rather disturbing that people are so concerned that a team is ranked above or below another team simply because of the head to head result. Yes, the winner of a head to head matchup was better, but that does not necessarily mean that they go ahead of them in a poll that SHOULD measure the entire resume of the year. Team X beat Team Y therefore team X must go ahead of team Y. That is seriously one dimensional thinking. It is simply one of many data points. Not everyone does it, but it sounds just ridiculous when it is said.

Looking at Villanova and Towson in particular. I happen to rank Nova higher than Towson this week; but that is probably because I never dropped Nova as far as everyone else to begin with. But I can easily see how Towson could be ranked higher regardless of the head to head. If you look at SIU and N Iowa, anybody really think SIU's resume is better than N Iowa? Even given the head to head results?

I guess with thinking like that, if McNeese beats SHSU next week they will not be able to rise much and certainly not past N Iowa since they lost to N Iowa.

God forbid that Fordam were to lose a game, how would Nova ever jump over them? Yeah, it sounds silly because it is silly, even if Fordam were in danger, which they are not.

This week was a pretty good poll. Still think Chuck South is a stretch. Not sure why people are enamored with them.

[HensRock]

I'm curious, what do you see in SELA? They have 1 sort of good win vs Samford, the rest are all vs junk (1-5 SEMO, startup Incarnate Word with no D1 wins, and SFA with 1 D1 win). They have a loss to TCU, which is fine, but another to SDSU, who's presence in the poll also confuses me.

They are 5-2 with a win against Samford and a loss to SDSU. So they should be ranked around the same place as Samford and SDSU then, right? Plus, I know it's not P.C., but I look at point differential and they are smoking those lesser teams. e.g. they just beat SFA 56-14. They'll have their chance to prove themselves soon enough against McNeese and SHSU. I'm just beating the rush.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I find it rather disturbing that people are so concerned that a team is ranked above or below another team simply because of the head to head result. Yes, the winner of a head to head matchup was better, but that does not necessarily mean that they go ahead of them in a poll that SHOULD measure the entire resume of the year. Team X beat Team Y therefore team X must go ahead of team Y. That is seriously one dimensional thinking. It is simply one of many data points. Not everyone does it, but it sounds just ridiculous when it is said.

Looking at Villanova and Towson in particular. I happen to rank Nova higher than Towson this week; but that is probably because I never dropped Nova as far as everyone else to begin with. But I can easily see how Towson could be ranked higher regardless of the head to head. If you look at SIU and N Iowa, anybody really think SIU's resume is better than N Iowa? Even given the head to head results?

I guess with thinking like that, if McNeese beats SHSU next week they will not be able to rise much and certainly not past N Iowa since they lost to N Iowa.

God forbid that Fordam were to lose a game, how would Nova ever jump over them? Yeah, it sounds silly because it is silly, even if Fordam were in danger, which they are not.

This week was a pretty good poll. Still think Chuck South is a stretch. Not sure why people are enamored with them.

Thanks for the awesome response! UNI-SIU this week really got me thinking. Gets difficult as the year goes on....

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I find it rather disturbing that people are so concerned that a team is ranked above or below another team simply because of the head to head result. Yes, the winner of a head to head matchup was better, but that does not necessarily mean that they go ahead of them in a poll that SHOULD measure the entire resume of the year. Team X beat Team Y therefore team X must go ahead of team Y. That is seriously one dimensional thinking. It is simply one of many data points. Not everyone does it, but it sounds just ridiculous when it is said.

Looking at Villanova and Towson in particular. I happen to rank Nova higher than Towson this week; but that is probably because I never dropped Nova as far as everyone else to begin with. But I can easily see how Towson could be ranked higher regardless of the head to head. If you look at SIU and N Iowa, anybody really think SIU's resume is better than N Iowa? Even given the head to head results?

I guess with thinking like that, if McNeese beats SHSU next week they will not be able to rise much and certainly not past N Iowa since they lost to N Iowa.

God forbid that Fordam were to lose a game, how would Nova ever jump over them? Yeah, it sounds silly because it is silly, even if Fordam were in danger, which they are not.

This week was a pretty good poll. Still think Chuck South is a stretch. Not sure why people are enamored with them.

If Fordham doesn't lose this weekend on the road at the Yale Bowl, I have an awfully hard time seeing them lose the rest of the way. Holy Cross might come the closest to pulling off an upset, but they play at Fordham, a huge disadvantage.

Despite losing last week, Yale could give Fordham a game, I think.

[ElCid]

I find it rather disturbing that people are so concerned that a team is ranked above or below another team simply because of the head to head result. Yes, the winner of a head to head matchup was better for that one game, but that does not necessarily mean that they go ahead of them in a poll that SHOULD measure the entire resume of the year. Team X beat Team Y therefore team X must go ahead of team Y. That is seriously one dimensional thinking. It is simply one of many data points. Not everyone does it, but it sounds just ridiculous when it is said.

Looking at Villanova and Towson in particular. I happen to rank Nova higher than Towson this week; but that is probably because I never dropped Nova as far as everyone else to begin with. But I can easily see how Towson could be ranked higher regardless of the head to head. If you look at SIU and N Iowa, anybody really think SIU's resume is better than N Iowa? Even given the head to head results?

I guess with thinking like that, if McNeese beats SHSU next week they will not be able to rise much and certainly not past N Iowa since they lost to N Iowa.

God forbid that Fordam were to lose a game, how would Nova ever jump over them? Yeah, it sounds silly because it is silly, even if Fordam were in danger, which they are not.

This week was a pretty good poll. Still think Chuck South is a stretch. Not sure why people are enamored with them.

Hate replying to my own quote but had to fix it and point out fix.

[superman7515]

Hate replying to my own quote but had to fix it and point out fix.

My issue with Villanova/Towson is that Villanova's only losses were to Fordham, who is ranked higher than Towson, and an FBS team. If you lose to #4 and beat #7, but don't lose to anyone else, you should be somewhere in between #4 and #7. Maybe #4 should move up, maybe #7 should move down, but you belong in between them. Just my opinion.

[HensRock]

Surprised that Youngstown is so low. 1 loss, an FBS loss, win over SIU, and still below UNI.

Don't look at me. I had them #3 on my ballot!

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Since we're basically halfway...My preseason poll, some good, some bad...

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Cal Poly Mustangs
3: Villanova Wildcats
4: Sam Houston State Bearkats
5: Richmond Spiders
6: Montana State Bobcats
7: Central Arkansas Bears
8: Wofford Terriers
9: Towson Tigers
10: Northern Iowa Panthers
11: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
12: Eastern Kentucky Colonels
13: Montana Grizzlies
14: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
15: Liberty Flames
16: Southern Illinois Salukis
17: Eastern Washington Eagles
18: Fordham Rams
19: James Madison Dukes
20: Pennsylvania Quakers
21: Lehigh Mountain Hawks
22: Coastal Carolina Chanticleers
23: McNeese State Cowboys
24: New Hampshire Wildcats
25: Wagner Seahawks

[Lehigh'98]

Yeah, putting a team on the schedule with 9 consecutive trips to the playoffs and the No. 4 AGS-ranked team in the country - what a weak schedule. xrolleyesx

Let's PLEASE stack this up against Chuck South's schedule.

Looking at the rest of the teams in the top 25 and the other playoff worthy teams, all of the arguing is kinda pointless semantics about poll positioning at this point. If we don't win the auto bid, whatever team beats us will be a bad enough loss to keep us out at 9-2. If we don't make the playoffs, does it really matter if we are ranked # 25 or # 33?

[Grizalltheway]

No offense but AppSt is 1-5, North Dakota is 2-4, Oklahoma Panhandle is D2, Portland State is 3-4 but only 1 win against D1 competition, and UC Davis is 1-5. I have them ranked in the Top 15, but they aren't cracking my Top 10 with their current schedule.

I love how everyone uses the weak schedule argument against us, but no one seems to have a problem with SHSU beating up on Houston Baptist, Texas Southern, Incarnate Word, and squeaking past Lamar. Not saying we don't have anything left to prove, but there are a few teams ranked above us that are in the same situation.

[dystopiamembrane]

If Fordham doesn't lose this weekend on the road at the Yale Bowl, I have an awfully hard time seeing them lose the rest of the way. Holy Cross might come the closest to pulling off an upset, but they play at Fordham, a huge disadvantage.

Despite losing last week, Yale could give Fordham a game, I think.
I see them beating Yale, but you are correct. This is their toughest remaining scheduled game.
I see the Lafayette game a tiny bit more difficult for them than the Holy Cross game. I agree with your home field advantage assessment.

[dystopiamembrane]

I love how everyone uses the weak schedule argument against us, but no one seems to have a problem with SHSU beating up on Houston Baptist, Texas Southern, Incarnate Word, and squeaking past Lamar. Not saying we don't have anything left to prove, but there are a few teams ranked above us that are in the same situation.
SOS - Sam Houston State 39th, Montana 83rd. That difference gap closes during the rest of the season, but still an advantage to the Southland club.

[FargoBison]

I love how everyone uses the weak schedule argument against us, but no one seems to have a problem with SHSU beating up on Houston Baptist, Texas Southern, Incarnate Word, and squeaking past Lamar. Not saying we don't have anything left to prove, but there are a few teams ranked above us that are in the same situation.

Aren't you forgetting one of their games????

http://www.gobearkats.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPID=11345&DB_OEM_ID=19900&ATCLID=209270323

[dystopiamembrane]

Don't look at me. I had them #3 on my ballot!
Youngstown State is #8, in my opinion.

[Professor Chaos]

I find it rather disturbing that people are so concerned that a team is ranked above or below another team simply because of the head to head result. Yes, the winner of a head to head matchup was better, but that does not necessarily mean that they go ahead of them in a poll that SHOULD measure the entire resume of the year. Team X beat Team Y therefore team X must go ahead of team Y. That is seriously one dimensional thinking. It is simply one of many data points. Not everyone does it, but it sounds just ridiculous when it is said.

Looking at Villanova and Towson in particular. I happen to rank Nova higher than Towson this week; but that is probably because I never dropped Nova as far as everyone else to begin with. But I can easily see how Towson could be ranked higher regardless of the head to head. If you look at SIU and N Iowa, anybody really think SIU's resume is better than N Iowa? Even given the head to head results?

I guess with thinking like that, if McNeese beats SHSU next week they will not be able to rise much and certainly not past N Iowa since they lost to N Iowa.

God forbid that Fordam were to lose a game, how would Nova ever jump over them? Yeah, it sounds silly because it is silly, even if Fordam were in danger, which they are not.

This week was a pretty good poll. Still think Chuck South is a stretch. Not sure why people are enamored with them.
It's still early enough in the season where head to head outcomes means a lot when you're comparing two teams. With the head to head win I think Nova now has a better resume than Towson but if Nova lost and Towson won next week I'd rank Towson above NOVA without thinking twice. UNI has more of an argument over SIU because they do have the stronger resume to this point but their defense really seems to be sputtering now that Farley is out so I'm dinging them for that because he's unfortunately done for the year.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

SOS - Sam Houston State 39th, Montana 83rd. That difference gap closes during the rest of the season, but still an advantage to the Southland club.

How much is the Texas A&M destruction "helping" SHSU?

[dbackjon]

Here's a question...

At what point does head-2-head become less of a factor?

Based on Montana-NAU, it looks like it never was...

[FargoBison]

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Sam Houston State Bearkats
3: Eastern Illinois Panthers
4: Fordham Rams
5: Eastern Washington Eagles
6: Villanova Wildcats
7: Towson Tigers
8: Maine Black Bears
9: Montana State Bobcats
10: Youngstown State Penguins
11: Northern Iowa Panthers
12: Coastal Carolina Chanticleers
13: Northern Arizona
14: Montana Grizzlies
15: McNeese State Cowboys
16: Wofford Terriers
17: Southern Illinois Salukis
18: Bethune-Cookman Wildcats
19: James Madison Dukes
20: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
21: Lehigh Mountain Hawks
22: Tennessee State Tigers
23: Cal Poly Mustangs
24: Southeastern Louisiana Lions
25: William & Mary Tribe

[Lehigh Football Nation]

My issue with Villanova/Towson is that Villanova's only losses were to Fordham, who is ranked higher than Towson, and an FBS team. If you lose to #4 and beat #7, but don't lose to anyone else, you should be somewhere in between #4 and #7. Maybe #4 should move up, maybe #7 should move down, but you belong in between them. Just my opinion.

Interesting, and yeah, I put Nova at No. 5 and Towson at No. 7 this week.

[Professor Chaos]

I love how everyone uses the weak schedule argument against us, but no one seems to have a problem with SHSU beating up on Houston Baptist, Texas Southern, Incarnate Word, and squeaking past Lamar. Not saying we don't have anything left to prove, but there are a few teams ranked above us that are in the same situation.
You conveniently omitted a certain team on Sam Houston's schedule. SHSU won that game and that's the difference between them and the Griz right now.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Based on Montana-NAU, it looks like it never was...

They're crazy....

[Lehigh Football Nation]

How much is the Texas A&M destruction "helping" SHSU?

You did see that "schedule strength" of 39, right?

[dbackjon]

You did see that "schedule strength" of 39, right?

And that is one issue with schedule strength, if you are getting killed in that tough game, you are still rewarded.

[fmrbearkat]

I love how everyone uses the weak schedule argument against us, but no one seems to have a problem with SHSU beating up on Houston Baptist, Texas Southern, Incarnate Word, and squeaking past Lamar. Not saying we don't have anything left to prove, but there are a few teams ranked above us that are in the same situation.

We convincingly beat the #2 team in the nation and our only loss is to #7 FBS team in the country.
At the time your win vs App impressed people but as it goes along it looks a whole lot less impressive. The sum of both of our wins are about even minus the fact that we beat EWU and our loss is to Texas A&M. Where you loss was a big loss to an above average Northern Arizona and you haven't beaten anybody that would qualify as a good win.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I love how everyone uses the weak schedule argument against us, but no one seems to have a problem with SHSU beating up on Houston Baptist, Texas Southern, Incarnate Word, and squeaking past Lamar. Not saying we don't have anything left to prove, but there are a few teams ranked above us that are in the same situation.

I honestly can't see how you can think we deserve a higher ranking than we have right now. We are heading to being a top 10 team if we can keep cleaning up some things on D but right now it just isn't there dude.

Not saying that our personnel is lacking because it is really fantastic but I think that some schemes could be imporoved based on what other teams are doing and we'd be a hell of a team. We're doing fine against mediocre competition in spite of that but even with the wins you have to see some weakness in our defense right now. Much better last weekend and hopefully will remain this way going forward.

[Tribal]

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Eastern Illinois Panthers
3: Coastal Carolina Chanticleers
4: Eastern Washington Eagles
5: Sam Houston State Bearkats
6: Montana State Bobcats
7: McNeese State Cowboys
8: Towson Tigers
9: Northern Iowa Panthers
10: Villanova Wildcats
11: Fordham Rams
12: Montana Grizzlies
13: Maine Black Bears
14: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
15: Youngstown State Penguins
16: Wofford Terriers
17: Samford Bulldogs
18: Bethune-Cookman Wildcats
19: Tennessee State Tigers
20: William & Mary Tribe
21: Southern Illinois Salukis
22: Central Arkansas Bears
23: Lehigh Mountain Hawks
24: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
25: James Madison Dukes

Tribal

[McNeese72]

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Eastern Illinois Panthers
3: Coastal Carolina Chanticleers
4: Eastern Washington Eagles
5: Sam Houston State Bearkats
6: Montana State Bobcats
7: McNeese State Cowboys
8: Towson Tigers
9: Northern Iowa Panthers
10: Villanova Wildcats
11: Fordham Rams
12: Montana Grizzlies
13: Maine Black Bears
14: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
15: Youngstown State Penguins
16: Wofford Terriers
17: Samford Bulldogs
18: Bethune-Cookman Wildcats
19: Tennessee State Tigers
20: William & Mary Tribe
21: Southern Illinois Salukis
22: Central Arkansas Bears
23: Lehigh Mountain Hawks
24: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
25: James Madison Dukes

Tribal

I'm very uncomfortable with McNeese rated that high after the disaster we had in the UniDome against UNI and how they have done the last two games. Everything that could go wrong in that game, did, but UNI had a lot to do with that.

Now, if by some miracle we can pull off a win against Sam, then maybe Top Ten but not right now.

Doc

[Houndawg]

It's still early enough in the season where head to head outcomes means a lot when you're comparing two teams. With the head to head win I think Nova now has a better resume than Towson but if Nova lost and Towson won next week I'd rank Towson above NOVA without thinking twice. UNI has more of an argument over SIU because they do have the stronger resume to this point but their defense really seems to be sputtering now that Farley is out so I'm dinging them for that because he's unfortunately done for the year.

I disagree with this part because:

1) SIU has put up 400+ yds against every team they've played except SDSU who held them to about 380.

2) UNI held SIU to their lowest point total of any team they've played this year; by 10 pts. if you look at scores at the end of regulation. Reports of their demise are greatly exaggerated.

[Sam_Kats]

BlueHen's poll xrotatehx

[fmrbearkat]

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Eastern Illinois Panthers
3: Coastal Carolina Chanticleers
4: Eastern Washington Eagles
5: Sam Houston State Bearkats
6: Montana State Bobcats
7: McNeese State Cowboys
8: Towson Tigers
9: Northern Iowa Panthers
10: Villanova Wildcats
11: Fordham Rams
12: Montana Grizzlies
13: Maine Black Bears
14: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
15: Youngstown State Penguins
16: Wofford Terriers
17: Samford Bulldogs
18: Bethune-Cookman Wildcats
19: Tennessee State Tigers
20: William & Mary Tribe
21: Southern Illinois Salukis
22: Central Arkansas Bears
23: Lehigh Mountain Hawks
24: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
25: James Madison Dukes

Tribal


Im ok with people having SHSU behind Eastern Illinois and could even entertain an argument for Coastal although it would be very very hard to sell me that they are any where close to top 3. Fordham would be an easier sell than CC. But to put us behind an EWU team we beat handily very recently is not very logical to me. I understand how Towson can be ranked ahead of Nova with Nova's fcs losses but when EWU has 2 losses (1 being to a mediocre FBS and 1 being to SHSU) and SHSU only having 1 loss to a top 10 FBS and a sound win over EWU i don't see how they could possibly be ranked higher than us. Granted they have a very big win over Oregon State but that still wouldn't trump the fact that SHSU beat EWU!

[robsnotes4u]

Very good poll. My two questions are EWU after watching the UND game, and SHSU after the Lamar game, never watched it live just game cast?




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[robsnotes4u]

I honestly can't see how you can think we deserve a higher ranking than we have right now. We are heading to being a top 10 team if we can keep cleaning up some things on D but right now it just isn't there dude.

Not saying that our personnel is lacking because it is really fantastic but I think that some schemes could be imporoved based on what other teams are doing and we'd be a hell of a team. We're doing fine against mediocre competition in spite of that but even with the wins you have to see some weakness in our defense right now. Much better last weekend and hopefully will remain this way going forward.

It always sounds better coming from a home fan. Your post is on the money.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Engineer86]

Charleston Southern has won at Johnson Hagood Stadium and at Kidd-Brewer. Both more impressive wins than Lehigh has. Now if y'all had been able to even stay with Fordham you might have an argument.

Seriously, the Fordham game changed on a dumb attempt to field a punt, setting up Fordham at the 10 while up 3 lay in the third quarter. Then a poor decision to force a pass to give them the ball on the next series. Those two poor decisions made that margin of victory much bigger than the two teams played. All that said, Fordham won the game, but if you want to make your point on the margin of victory, a team that squeaks by VMI would not be on I put a lot of cash on.

[citdog]

Seriously, the Fordham game changed on a dumb attempt to field a punt, setting up Fordham at the 10 while up 3 lay in the third quarter. Then a poor decision to force a pass to give them the ball on the next series. Those two poor decisions made that margin of victory much bigger than the two teams played. All that said, Fordham won the game, but if you want to make your point on the margin of victory, a team that squeaks by VMI would not be on I put a lot of cash on.

but one that squeaks by Monmouth and CCSU is?

[Engineer86]

and your best win is PRINCETON! The wins for the Bucs over The Citadel, Appy, and VMI are all better wins.

VMI, well this opinion gets tossed based on credibility.

[citdog]

VMI, well this opinion gets tossed based on credibility.


Monmouth, CCSU, and Virginia's Marching Idiots are basically the same type of teams. NOT very good. VMI is much better in Lexington though.

[ElCid]

My issue with Villanova/Towson is that Villanova's only losses were to Fordham, who is ranked higher than Towson, and an FBS team. If you lose to #4 and beat #7, but don't lose to anyone else, you should be somewhere in between #4 and #7. Maybe #4 should move up, maybe #7 should move down, but you belong in between them. Just my opinion.

I feel that way in this case, but as I said, I never dropped Nova way down so it was easy for me to rank them higher. I have Fordam, Nova, Towson, 4, 6, 9. But I can see how folks might still give the edge to Towson, especially with the FBS win. It is subjective so I am not going to ding someone who has a plan as to why. I may not agree but at least they have a plan. I just hate the automatic, "they beat them they have to be higher" thinking.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Monmouth, CCSU, and Virginia's Marching Idiots are basically the same type of teams. NOT very good. VMI is much better in Lexington though.

If it was your mission to get me to research the following about VMI, then mission accomplished.

* VMI's last season where they had more than 6 wins was 1977.
* Their last non-losing season was in 2003, when they went 6-6.
* In the last 40 years they've eclipsed the 7-win barrier twice.
* In the last 40 years they've had a winning record 4 times. The last time this happened was 1981, with a 6-3-1 record. (Granted that season was pretty damned good: they beat Virginia Tech, Army, William & Mary and The Citadel that season.)

[citdog]

If it was your mission to get me to research the following about VMI, then mission accomplished.

* VMI's last season where they had more than 6 wins was 1977.
* Their last non-losing season was in 2003, when they went 6-6.
* In the last 40 years they've eclipsed the 7-win barrier twice.
* In the last 40 years they've had a winning record 4 times. The last time this happened was 1981, with a 6-3-1 record. (Granted that season was pretty damned good: they beat Virginia Tech, Army, William & Mary and The Citadel that season.)

ok LFN but WHO DID THEY PLAY????

East Carolina
West Virginia
Marshall
App St
Pigs Ass, Ga

just to name a few.......

[Engineer86]

You can't have your cake and eat it too, Chuck.
CSU is 7-0 while playing absolutely no one!
How does it feel having the shoe on the other foot for a change?

The shoe would be on the other foot, if many of the same who killed Lehigh last year and this year, came on here and did the same to CSU. But they do not, they come on here and defend why CSU is so much better than LU

1-5 ASU > 2-3 UNH
1-5 VMI > 3-1 Princeton

Really, this is credible?

[Engineer86]

I'm curious, what do you see in SELA? They have 1 sort of good win vs Samford, the rest are all vs junk (1-5 SEMO, startup Incarnate Word with no D1 wins, and SFA with 1 D1 win). They have a loss to TCU, which is fine, but another to SDSU, who's presence in the poll also confuses me.

If you view the Southern Conference highly, that Samford win is a big win.

[superman7515]

For what it's worth, I have Charleston Southern and Lehigh ranked together outside my Top 25.

[citdog]

If you view the Southern Conference highly, that Samford win is a big win.


Why wouldn't one view the Southern Conference highly? How many FCS Championships does the Patriot League have?

[ElCid]

If you view the Southern Conference highly, that Samford win is a big win.

Has nothing to do with the SOCON. Samford is a good team, a real good team, who got caught sleeping by SELA at home. Kudos to SELA, but had the comeback started a bit earlier, Samford would have pulled out that game. If they do not stumble, Samford is going to take the SOCON and turn some heads in the playoffs. I dread to play them in a few weeks.

[ElCid]

For what it's worth, I have Charleston Southern and Lehigh ranked together outside my Top 25.

They are both on my short list, but I have Lehigh with a slight edge.

[Engineer86]

Monmouth, CCSU, and Virginia's Marching Idiots are basically the same type of teams. NOT very good. VMI is much better in Lexington though.

I really am not arguing that Lehigh is great. Definitely not arguing Monmouth, CCSU or VMI is great. BUT I struggle to see the love given CSU. Their signature wins are over 2-5 and 1-5 teams. If you want to argue they are the same team and both have something to prove, ok I buy that.

[Engineer86]

Why wouldn't one view the Southern Conference highly? How many FCS Championships does the Patriot League have?

I thought we were talking about 2013, but Ok, I'll bite how many does the Southern Conference have in the last 25 years. The ones that you did not tell to get the h*ll out of you league on this board.

[Engineer86]

Has nothing to do with the SOCON. Samford is a good team, a real good team, who got caught sleeping by SELA at home. Kudos to SELA, but had the comeback started a bit earlier, Samford would have pulled out that game. If they do not stumble, Samford is going to take the SOCON and turn some heads in the playoffs. I dread to play them in a few weeks.

Thanks, I will admit I was not aware of the details of the game.

[lionsrking2]

Has nothing to do with the SOCON. Samford is a good team, a real good team, who got caught sleeping by SELA at home. Kudos to SELA, but had the comeback started a bit earlier, Samford would have pulled out that game. If they do not stumble, Samford is going to take the SOCON and turn some heads in the playoffs. I dread to play them in a few weeks.

What game did you watch??? Credit Samford for hitting us with some gadgets early and a couple of big plays late to get back in it, but we were playing without our starting QB most of the game and pretty much lined up and ran it down their throats ... I agree Samford has a solid team, and should be ranked somewhere, but the best team won that game with a C- effort. If Bennett plays the whole game, it's not close.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

If you view the Southern Conference highly, that Samford win is a big win.

Usually I would, but the SoCon seems to be having an off year. On the flip side, this seems to be an abnormally strong year for the OVC.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

I can't find the quote, but someone mentioned upthread that Chuck South is playing 13 games this season. I looked at their site and that appears to be the case. How are they doing that? I thought that the limit was 11 for a normal season, and 12 for a season where the first game starts before a certain date, with the only option for an extra game being allowed on top of that if your team has to fly to play Hawaii, and the Bucs aren't playing Hawaii.

[FargoBison]

I can't find the quote, but someone mentioned upthread that Chuck South is playing 13 games this season. I looked at their site and that appears to be the case. How are they doing that? I thought that the limit was 11 for a normal season, and 12 for a season where the first game starts before a certain date, with the only option for an extra game being allowed on top of that if your team has to fly to play Hawaii, and the Bucs aren't playing Hawaii.

NCAA waiver since Colorado lost a game due to flooding.

[skinny_uncle]

Correct, Wichita St. does not have football :D

Thank heaven! Some of their fans are annoying.
xlolx

[ElCid]

What game did you watch??? Credit Samford for hitting us with some gadgets early and a couple of big plays late to get back in it, but we were playing without our starting QB most of the game and pretty much lined up and ran it down their throats ... I agree Samford has a solid team, and should be ranked somewhere, but the best team won that game with a C- effort. If Bennett plays the whole game, it's not close.

I listened to most of the game. You make it sound like they were lucky to come back. Having three turnovers in the first half did not help Samford. A far as gadgets? You mean like an onside kick by SELA in the 1st? Great call, but hardly a C- effort. A+ for guts and it worked and led to a SELA TD. My point is that Samford was down 34-14 in the 4th. Final 34-31. Pretty good come back--17 unanswered points, QB or no QB. Your D did not slow them down late. The momentum was clearly with Samford. That was not luck. You did catch them early and you did run it down their throats, 309 yards worth. And they threw it down yours with 521 yards passing. The scary part is that SELA had a TOP of 38+ minutes and that Samford threw for 500+ in only 22 minutes. You guys got up on them early and they made some mistakes and woke up too late. As far as their season, they are tearing it up right now and will probably take the conference barring some upsets by Chatty and Wofford. This is not a slam at SELA, I have them ranked, but to underestimate Samford at this point would be foolish.

Here is the play by play link:
http://samfordsports.com/boxscore.aspx?path=football&id=8733

[MTfan4life]

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Sam Houston State Bearkats
3: Maine Black Bears
4: Eastern Illinois Panthers
5: Fordham Rams
6: Villanova Wildcats
7: Eastern Washington Eagles
8: Montana State Bobcats
9: Coastal Carolina Chanticleers
10: Youngstown State Penguins
11: Southern Illinois Salukis
12: Northern Iowa Panthers
13: McNeese State Cowboys
14: Towson Tigers
15: William & Mary Tribe
16: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
17: Montana Grizzlies
18: Southeastern Louisiana Lions
19: Samford Bulldogs
20: Bethune-Cookman Wildcats
21: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
22: Tennessee State Tigers
23: South Carolina State Bulldogs
24: Wofford Terriers
25: Lehigh Mountain Hawks

[grayghost06]

Pretty good poll

1-14 no complaints.

Too High: SIU, B-Cook, SDSU, JMU

Too low: Tn-Mart, SELA

Bill, not that I necessarily disagree this time, but I do believe those highlighted words will be on your tombstone.

My honest assessment on JMU is they are easily capable of beating all but a couple of FCS teams most Saturdays. Unfortunately, they are also inclined to be in a dogfight with clearly inferior teams as well. A truly good team would not struggle w/ a bottom dweller at home as Madison has done. Quite frustrating to see the parts not jelling because the talent is there in several positions. Having a coach who won't go for the throat doesn't help either.

[Engineer86]

Bill, not that I necessarily disagree this time, but I do believe those highlighted words will be on your tombstone.

My honest assessment on JMU is they are easily capable of beating all but a couple of FCS teams most Saturdays. Unfortunately, they are also inclined to be in a dogfight with clearly inferior teams as well. A truly good team would not struggle w/ a bottom dweller at home as Madison has done. Quite frustrating to see the parts not jelling because the talent is there in several positions. Having a coach who won't go for the throat doesn't help either.

Welcome to my nightmare!xlolx

[BlueHenSinfonian]

Bill, not that I necessarily disagree this time, but I do believe those highlighted words will be on your tombstone.

My honest assessment on JMU is they are easily capable of beating all but a couple of FCS teams most Saturdays. Unfortunately, they are also inclined to be in a dogfight with clearly inferior teams as well. A truly good team would not struggle w/ a bottom dweller at home as Madison has done. Quite frustrating to see the parts not jelling because the talent is there in several positions. Having a coach who won't go for the throat doesn't help either.

Delaware is in a similar boat. We can look like world killers out there sometimes, or let a team hang around that has no business doing so. In our case I don't think it's a coach that won't go for the jugular, Brock has said he wants that to be part of the gameplan, but rather new schemes that aren't quite all there yet. Our D-coordinator may also be in over his head.

[Daved]

Surprised that Youngstown is so low. 1 loss, an FBS loss, win over SIU, and still below UNI.That would really irritate Clenz---its bad enough his beloved Panthers have lost 2 in a row and with the evil 'Guins winning big over ILS you can be sure that the Cedar River is @ flood stage from all his tears.;)

[dudeitsaid]

Im ok with people having SHSU behind Eastern Illinois and could even entertain an argument for Coastal although it would be very very hard to sell me that they are any where close to top 3. Fordham would be an easier sell than CC. But to put us behind an EWU team we beat handily very recently is not very logical to me. I understand how Towson can be ranked ahead of Nova with Nova's fcs losses but when EWU has 2 losses (1 being to a mediocre FBS and 1 being to SHSU) and SHSU only having 1 loss to a top 10 FBS and a sound win over EWU i don't see how they could possibly be ranked higher than us. Granted they have a very big win over Oregon State but that still wouldn't trump the fact that SHSU beat EWU!

At least the consensus is that SHSU is number 2. I agree, there is no way EWU should be ahead of the Bearkats. Truly, EWU better clean some stuff up, or they are going to have serious issues with many of the remaining teams on their schedule. They are playing way too sloppy against the weaker teams, and probably are more likely at 10-14 rated team. SHSU seems to often be doubted, but many great teams struggle with a game or two every season, it seems.

[Fear the Bird]

Can I have the 20 minutes of my life back it took me to read through this and see 75% of those damn Mountainhawks whining about being one spot behind Chuck? You would think Chuck was top 10 and Lehigh was 40

[lionsrking2]

I listened to most of the game. You make it sound like they were lucky to come back. Having three turnovers in the first half did not help Samford. A far as gadgets? You mean like an onside kick by SELA in the 1st? Great call, but hardly a C- effort. A+ for guts and it worked and led to a SELA TD. My point is that Samford was down 34-14 in the 4th. Final 34-31. Pretty good come back--17 unanswered points, QB or no QB. Your D did not slow them down late. The momentum was clearly with Samford. That was not luck. You did catch them early and you did run it down their throats, 309 yards worth. And they threw it down yours with 521 yards passing. The scary part is that SELA had a TOP of 38+ minutes and that Samford threw for 500+ in only 22 minutes. You guys got up on them early and they made some mistakes and woke up too late. As far as their season, they are tearing it up right now and will probably take the conference barring some upsets by Chatty and Wofford. This is not a slam at SELA, I have them ranked, but to underestimate Samford at this point would be foolish.

Here is the play by play link:
http://samfordsports.com/boxscore.aspx?path=football&id=8733

Oh I see, you "listened" to it ... I rest my case.xcoffeex

[FordhamFan]

I can't believe y'all really think Fordham is a top 5 team. I know they're good and all but man it just blows my mind to think top 5 good, especially coming from you guys that know the FCS scene pretty well.

I really, really can't wait and really hope they play an FCS powerhouse in the playoffs, because I would love to see these Rams go against the best there is. I'm cautiously optimistic about this Fordham team, but the emphasis is on cautiously.

[Fear the Bird]

I can't believe y'all really think Fordham is a top 5 team. I know they're good and all but man it just blows my mind to think top 5 good, especially coming from you guys that know the FCS scene pretty well.

I really, really can't wait and really hope they play an FCS powerhouse in the playoffs, because I would love to see these Rams go against the best there is. I'm cautiously optimistic about this Fordham team, but the emphasis is on cautiously.

welcome to AGS and enjoy the ride. Your boys have impressed the hell out of me with not moly the Temple win but the Nova win and Lehigh throttling. You will quickly see on this board how "great" Lehigh is so we enjoy seeing them get beat down.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

welcome to AGS and enjoy the ride. Your boys have impressed the hell out of me with not moly the Temple win but the Nova win and Lehigh throttling. You will quickly see on this board how "great" Lehigh is so we enjoy seeing them get beat down.

The funny part is not a single Lehigh person proclaims their greatness....all we say is they're a pretty good, second tier top 15-25 program...the hyperbole that exists with Lehigh is ridiculous.....bizarre...

[Fear the Bird]

The funny part is not a single Lehigh person proclaims their greatness....all we say is they're a pretty good, second tier top 15-25 program...

Then wouldn't consistently being ranked in the late teens to low 20s be satisfactory?

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Then wouldn't consistently being ranked in the late teens to low 20s be satisfactory?

Yes, with the ability to produce Top 5/10 teams every now and again. This years team absolutely can win a first round game. Hard to think anything more, that's realistic...

[ElCid]

Oh I see, you "listened" to it ... I rest my case.

You never had a case. At least not a rational one. Yeah I listened to it. While I was watching a game on TV and watching another one on ESPN 3. What does that have to do with it? Stats don't lie. The play by play doesn't change. The Stats don't change if I watch or listen do they? You won the game, but if you think Samford is not a good team and that they could not have reasonably won that game, given a couple different play results, then I certainly can't convince you. I have no agenda other than a fan who will soon have to face Samford. And I will at least be honest in my assessment. I am no homer for my team nor my conference in this case. But the fact is, they hung 17 unanswered points on you in the final quarter of a game that you should have put away already. Everybody knows that already, there is no reason to make excuses. And yeah, I think they are good. That is why they are ranked ahead of you by the AGS at this time, so I am not the only one. Take a look at some of their games since. You should thank you lucky stars you do not have to play them now.

[lionsrking2]

You never had a case. At least not a rational one. Yeah I listened to it. While I was watching a game on TV and watching another one on ESPN 3. What does that have to do with it? Stats don't lie. The play by play doesn't change. The Stats don't change if I watch or listen do they? You won the game, but if you think Samford is not a good team and that they could not have reasonably won that game, given a couple different play results, then I certainly can't convince you. I have no agenda other than a fan who will soon have to face Samford. And I will at least be honest in my assessment. I am no homer for my team nor my conference in this case. But the fact is, they hung 17 unanswered points on you in the final quarter of a game that you should have put away already. Everybody knows that already, there is no reason to make excuses. And yeah, I think they are good. That is why they are ranked ahead of you by the AGS at this time, so I am not the only one. Take a look at some of their games since. You should thank you lucky stars you do not have to play them now.

Gotcha Pal.

[superman7515]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvmwY8LHo1Q

[HensRock]

but one that squeaks by Monmouth and CCSU is?

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to citdog again.

[HensRock]

The shoe would be on the other foot, if many of the same who killed Lehigh last year and this year, came on here and did the same to CSU. But they do not, they come on here and defend why CSU is so much better than LU

1-5 ASU > 2-3 UNH
1-5 VMI > 3-1 Princeton

Really, this is credible?

Dude. I AM saying the same thing for CSU and so are others. And those defending CSU are NO WHERE NEAR the quantity of Lehigh defenders of the past (and present). Are you too close to the situation to not see how this is the pot calling the kettle black?

[HensRock]

The funny part is not a single Lehigh person proclaims their greatness....all we say is they're a pretty good, second tier top 15-25 program...

Yeah... But... They're NOT!

Sagarin: Lehigh #47
Laz Index: Lehigh #39
Massey: Lehigh #33
Dwiggins: Lehigh #33
Ashburn: Lehigh #30
Self: Lehigh #32
Sport Theory: Lehigh #41
Born: Lehigh #55

I'm not alone.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Yeah... But... They're NOT!

Sagarin: Lehigh #47
Laz Index: Lehigh #39
Massey: Lehigh #33
Dwiggins: Lehigh #33
Ashburn: Lehigh #30
Self: Lehigh #32
Sport Theory: Lehigh #41
Born: Lehigh #55

I'm not alone.

To think, not one of those computers watched a single game this year. xrolleyesx

[Houndawg]

With this kind of butthurt in progress its like clenz hasn't disappeared.

[JMUNJ08]

To think, not one of those computers watched a single game this year. xrolleyesx

True, otherwise they would have ranked Lehigh lower....

[dystopiamembrane]

To think, not one of those computers watched a single game this year. xrolleyesx
How would watching games change this?

[BEAR]

This is the poll I trust the most. Glad to see my fellow FCS fans KNOW who to vote for and who not to vote for .... for the most part. xlolx

[skinny_uncle]

This is the poll I trust the most. Glad to see my fellow FCS fans KNOW who to vote for and who not to vote for .... for the most part. xlolx
It is certainly better than the coaches poll.

[BEAR]

It is certainly better than the coaches poll.

I'd like to know where these "coaches" think UCA is going to get offense from after this weekends MASH game. Lose your starting all-American QB, best WR, and half your defense...surely they were going on history. xlolx

[Nova09]

To think, not one of those computers watched a single game this year. xrolleyesx

To think, not once has your brain performed a multivariable optimization function on bayesian data.

[dystopiamembrane]

bump