Georgetown Down To 4th String QB...Again

[DFW HOYA]

Does any team have the consistent QB churn that Georgetown has faced over the past two seasons?

In 2012, GU went through five quarterbacks over the season; against Fordham, the Hoyas were forced to go to a true freshman after the 2nd and 3rd stringers were already sidelined. The result was not in doubt but it makes it doubly difficult to build an offensive game plan around a position that could go even deeper in the depth chart. Needless to say, true freshman without a scholarship are not well suited to PL play.

That's six QB's over the last 17 games: Kempf, Aiken, Skon, Nolan, MacPherson, and now Barnes.

[Go Green]

I think Dartmouth only has 4 QBs on the roster total.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

That's pretty crazy. Has Georgetown been injury-prone at other positions? If so maybe it's worth taking a look at the strength and conditioning program.

[LehighU11]

Columbia has had a rough start to this season with their QBs as well. They lost Nottingham, their junior transfer from Stanford who was Luck's backup and heir apparent a couple seasons ago, in the first half of the season opener and he is out for the season with a broken wrist. 2nd stringer McDonagh lasted only a couple series yesterday and was forced to leave upon aggravating a knee injury. The Lions are now down to their 4th QB in 5 games.

Fortunately for them, that is a 6'7, 3 star recruit, freshman who turned down offers to Arkansas, Vanderbilt, Colorado, and a list of other FBS and Ivy programs. Bad news is they still have an undersized O-line.

[crusader11]

Combination of injuries and a few just not being very good?

I feel for you DFW, along with Hoya football fans out there. The Georgetown administration wants to have their cake and eat it too, in that they like being a part of the PL and associating with these schools, but don't want to invest the dinero that's needed to be competitive

At this rate, the ship that is Georgetown football will sink, it's just a matter of when.

[DFW HOYA]

Combination of injuries and a few just not being very good?

That, and a run of really bad luck when it comes to QB injuries. One of Georgetown's best prospects in the last 15 years at QB was Tucker Stafford a big 6-5 all-state kid from Connecticut with some legit I-A offers. In the second play of his freshman year versus Yale, in mop-up duty, he injures his throwing hand and never plays QB again, finishing up as a tight end.




I feel for you DFW, along with Hoya football fans out there. The Georgetown administration wants to have their cake and eat it too, in that they like being a part of the PL and associating with these schools, but don't want to invest the dinero that's needed to be competitive At this rate, the ship that is Georgetown football will sink, it's just a matter of when.

Do not misjudge budget for heart. Just because Georgetown still trusts in the same philosophy that guided the PL for 25-odd years does not mean that they are done with a varsity sport they have played since 1881.

If 2011 had never happened, this might be a more discussable point but it is no less practical. Football raises more in gifts than any GU sport ouside basketball and that does not go unnoticed; nonetheless, unless there is a better argument made for milions for scholarships it won't go anywhere, esp. at a school with far fewer athletic scholarships than many fans would ever realize.

If the PL wants to kick Georgetown to the curb next season, that's their call. But given the recent success enjoyed in 2011, the presidents may be tempered by some sort of furtive hope that things will get better.

[Go...gate]

Colgate is having a rough go at QB. After McCarney, we have a lot of inexperience.

[CFBfan]

That, and a run of really bad luck when it comes to QB injuries. One of Georgetown's best prospects in the last 15 years at QB was Tucker Stafford a big 6-5 all-state kid from Connecticut with some legit I-A offers. In the second play of his freshman year versus Yale, in mop-up duty, he injures his throwing hand and never plays QB again, finishing up as a tight end.




Do not misjudge budget for heart. Just because Georgetown still trusts in the same philosophy that guided the PL for 25-odd years does not mean that they are done with a varsity sport they have played since 1881.

If 2011 had never happened, this might be a more discussable point but it is no less practical. Football raises more in gifts than any GU sport ouside basketball and that does not go unnoticed; nonetheless, unless there is a better argument made for milions for scholarships it won't go anywhere, esp. at a school with far fewer athletic scholarships than many fans would ever realize.

If the PL wants to kick Georgetown to the curb next season, that's their call. But given the recent success enjoyed in 2011, the presidents may be tempered by some sort of furtive hope that things will get better.

2011 will never happen again on the hill DFW. it's 2 season ago and the OC and Jr and Sr class that took the program there are gone!
The staff is considerably weaker as is the overall roster. It's time to face reality at Gtown

[DFW HOYA]

2011 will never happen again on the hill DFW. it's 2 season ago and the OC and Jr and Sr class that took the program there are gone! The staff is considerably weaker as is the overall roster. It's time to face reality at Gtown

I fully understand this-last year's recruiting class was poor and this is likely to be a recurring trend until the recruiting community sees some sort of progress on schoalrships, facilities, or staff. But there's nothing fundamentally (as opposed to financially) in play that would prevent Georgetown from being a very good football program if the financial commitment was manifest. Whether that takes place in the PL is an open question because the rules of engagement do not favor Georgetown in the near term.

College presidents, on the other hand, don't follow any of this stuff too closely and are just as likely to say, "Well they won eight in 2011, so maybe it's a run of bad luck." By that extrapolation, Bucknell has had a run of bad luck since the mid-90's.

[Model Citizen]

If the PL wants to kick Georgetown to the curb next season, that's their call.

I guess that's their prerogative. Otherwise, aren't the football associate members approved for a set number of years? Coupla questions...

1. When does GU's current membership cycle end?
2. At what point does the Patriot League extend associate memberships? e.g. X months before the end of a three-year term...

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Through 6 games:



SACKS ALLOWED-Yards

19-112



You can start here.

[DFW HOYA]

Through 6 games:



SACKS ALLOWED-Yards


19-112




You can start here.

On the other side of the ball, just five sacks earned in six games, though two were against Fordham.

[CFBfan]

I fully understand this-last year's recruiting class was poor and this is likely to be a recurring trend until the recruiting community sees some sort of progress on schoalrships, facilities, or staff. But there's nothing fundamentally (as opposed to financially) in play that would prevent Georgetown from being a very good football program if the financial commitment was manifest. Whether that takes place in the PL is an open question because the rules of engagement do not favor Georgetown in the near term.

College presidents, on the other hand, don't follow any of this stuff too closely and are just as likely to say, "Well they won eight in 2011, so maybe it's a run of bad luck." By that extrapolation, Bucknell has had a run of bad luck since the mid-90's.

BTW: have you noticed what Coastal Carolina is doing this year? 6 - 0 with a GREAT offense! The OC is Coach P who single handedly energized the entire Hoya team for the 2 short years he was there. Doing it with the same players that Kelly and the former OC couldn't win a game with !!!!! Now he's gone and the Hoyas are awful again, it's like real estate DFW, coaching, coaching, coaching!!!!!!
If Gtown doesn't can Kelly the should just can the program!

[JimboCBA72]

BTW: have you noticed what Coastal Carolina is doing this year? 6 - 0 with a GREAT offense! The OC is Coach P who single handedly energized the entire Hoya team for the 2 short years he was there. Doing it with the same players that Kelly and the former OC couldn't win a game with !!!!! Now he's gone and the Hoyas are awful again, it's like real estate DFW, coaching, coaching, coaching!!!!!!
If Gtown doesn't can Kelly the should just can the program!

The job Moorhead is doing at Fordham is another example. Granted, Nebrich has been lights out and he followed Joe down from UCONN, but the roster is composed primarily of kids recruited by the previous staff. Reminds me of what Bum Phillips had to say about Shula...he can take his and beat yours and take yours and beat his

[Twentysix]

Poor strength and conditioning coach?

The 'again' part should probably get some people fired.

[CFBfan]

The job Moorhead is doing at Fordham is another example. Granted, Nebrich has been lights out and he followed Joe down from UCONN, but the roster is composed primarily of kids recruited by the previous staff. Reminds me of what Bum Phillips had to say about Shula...he can take his and beat yours and take yours and beat his

no question about it

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Let's not be so fast to discount Nebrich's contribution to Fordham's success. Without him last season Moorhead went 6-5 and lost to Bucknell.

[RamRay]

I really don't want Georgetown to leave the PL, they have too much history and connectivity with the league. That it was time for a decision for PL scholarships to remain competitive in FCS is a done deal and I think The Hoyas can convert some need-grants to scholarships and add some to offer at least 40. That would help prevent bad losses until they are ready to ramp up to a full compliment. But the admin have to want football to be competitive and right now DeGoia et al does not want to offer scholarships. Kelly will be out recruited time and time again; the Ivies and PL can offer full rides and a comparable education so the Hoyas will need more than the Georgetown name to recruit. I really can't see G-town in the Pioneer and I doubt the Ivies will fill their schedule if they went independent. They offer scholarships in all other sports, why not football?

I can't speak about coach Kelly; after all with non-scholie players, he managed an 8 win season in '11 so can coach, but he will never be competitive with the rest of the PL if they are offering scholarships and Georgetown is not. If your #1 quarterback is a top recruit and the back-up is also good and both scholarship, they may bounce back better and can produce better than non-scholie QBs (I have no stats to prove this, just common sense), so you don't have to go through 4 quarterbacks in a season.

The PL has made a decision to be competitive in FCS and no longer be patsies for the Ivies, so a bright future and better OOC games awaits the PL. Soon you will see all PL teams regularly winning OOC games. I can only hope The Hoya's admin will want that as well. How can you offer a top-flight basketball program and settle for a really weak football program? Kelly can coach, he will just be out-recruited and out-gunned. C'mon Hoyas, step up and and stay in the PL!

[CFBfan]

I really don't want Georgetown to leave the PL, they have too much history and connectivity with the league. That it was time for a decision for PL scholarships to remain competitive in FCS is a done deal and I think The Hoyas can convert some need-grants to scholarships and add some to offer at least 40. That would help prevent bad losses until they are ready to ramp up to a full compliment. But the admin have to want football to be competitive and right now DeGoia et al does not want to offer scholarships. Kelly will be out recruited time and time again; the Ivies and PL can offer full rides and a comparable education so the Hoyas will need more than the Georgetown name to recruit. I really can't see G-town in the Pioneer and I doubt the Ivies will fill their schedule if they went independent. They offer scholarships in all other sports, why not football?

I can't speak about coach Kelly; after all with non-scholie players, he managed an 8 win season in '11 so can coach, but he will never be competitive with the rest of the PL if they are offering scholarships and Georgetown is not. If your #1 quarterback is a top recruit and the back-up is also good and both scholarship, they may bounce back better and can produce better than non-scholie QBs (I have no stats to prove this, just common sense), so you don't have to go through 4 quarterbacks in a season.

The PL has made a decision to be competitive in FCS and no longer be patsies for the Ivies, so a bright future and better OOC games awaits the PL. Soon you will see all PL teams regularly winning OOC games. I can only hope The Hoya's admin will want that as well. How can you offer a top-flight basketball program and settle for a really weak football program? Kelly can coach, he will just be out-recruited and out-gunned. C'mon Hoyas, step up and and stay in the PL!

NOTHING to do with Kelly:
have you noticed what Coastal Carolina is doing this year? 6 - 0 with a GREAT offense! The OC is Coach P who single handedly energized the entire Hoya team for the 2 short years he was there. Doing it with the same players that Kelly and the former OC couldn't win a game with !!!!! Now he's gone and the Hoyas are awful again, it's like real estate DFW, coaching, coaching, coaching!!!!!!
If Gtown doesn't can Kelly the should just can the program!

[Franks Tanks]

Let's not be so fast to discount Nebrich's contribution to Fordham's success. Without him last season Moorhead went 6-5 and lost to Bucknell.

The other 4 losses in 2012 were to Cincinatti, Nova, Colgate and Lehigh. He also took over a team that went 1-10 in 2011, and was a complete mess (despite solid talent).

Moorhead has done an excellent job. Many UCONN fans are calling for him or Ambrose to get the job next year in Stoors.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The other 4 losses in 2012 were to Cincinatti, Nova, Colgate and Lehigh. He also took over a team that went 1-10 in 2011, and was a complete mess (despite solid talent).

Moorhead has done an excellent job. Many UCONN fans are calling for him or Ambrose to get the job next year in Stoors.

Not meant as a slight against Moorhead at all, as I've seen first-hand he's an excellent coach. But I also see what Nebrich brings to this team, too. He was incredible vs. both Lehigh, and Temple and did well vs. Villanova. If Nebrich wasn't there, do they win those games? Certainly not the Temple game, certainly not the Villanova game, and maybe they'd have struggled more with Lehigh, too.

[DFW HOYA]

Dave Patenaude was a very good OC and a huge step above Jim Miceli, but it's not like the Hoyas were an offensive juggernaut in 2011. They were, by Georgetown standards, unusually efficient.

This team snuck up on Lafayette, caught Holy Cross in the snow, and took advantage of a key injury in the Colgate backfield and pounded the Red Raiders for it. Yes, they were good, but remember, this is also the team that lost to Bucknell by 17.

[Doc QB]

Moorhead has done an excellent job. Many UCONN fans are calling for him or Ambrose to get the job next year in Stoors.

If the Huskies cant land a big name (and it depends on how you look at Pasqualoni,if he was or not) one of these guys will be up in Storrs, no question. Ambrose has been a HC longer, but has his success and squad are built with a bunch more transfers and carte blance with admissions office. If it matters to the Admin at UConn, they may take a leap on Moorhead despite being a HC just two years, as he has done it with tighter academic kids and less transfers.

[CFBfan]

Dave Patenaude was a very good OC and a huge step above Jim Miceli, but it's not like the Hoyas were an offensive juggernaut in 2011. They were, by Georgetown standards, unusually efficient.

This team snuck up on Lafayette, caught Holy Cross in the snow, and took advantage of a key injury in the Colgate backfield and pounded the Red Raiders for it. Yes, they were good, but remember, this is also the team that lost to Bucknell by 17.

c'mon. patenaude energized the entire program following a ZERO win season!! Thye lost to both bucknell and wagner on late game pic sixes!
he absolutely turned that program around, look where they are now! and it had NOTHING to do with scholarships this year!!!
can only specualte BUT if coach P was still there last season and this season would be very different

[DFW HOYA]

c'mon. patenaude energized the entire program following a ZERO win season!! Thye lost to both bucknell and wagner on late game pic sixes!
he absolutely turned that program around, look where they are now! and it had NOTHING to do with scholarships this year!!!
can only specualte BUT if coach P was still there last season and this season would be very different

Yes he did. (But Bucknell won in 2011 by 35-17.)

And does anyone remember who was Georgetown's QB's coach when it joined the PL? Joe Moorhead.

[Model Citizen]

I guess that's their prerogative. Otherwise, aren't the football associate members approved for a set number of years? Coupla questions...

1. When does GU's current membership cycle end?
2. At what point does the Patriot League extend associate memberships? e.g. X months before the end of a three-year term...

Answering my own questions...

This is year one of an associate membership cycle that takes them through 2015.

[RichH2]

Hoyas may decide to leave,PL will never force them out.

[Doc QB]

I really don't want Georgetown to leave the PL, they have too much history and connectivity with the league. That it was time for a decision for PL scholarships to remain competitive in FCS is a done deal and I think The Hoyas can convert some need-grants to scholarships and add some to offer at least 40. That would help prevent bad losses until they are ready to ramp up to a full compliment.

No, they cant. The basically run a Division III model with the kids getting to fill out the FAFSA form and going through regular student financial aid. They have an extremely limited number of grants the coach is able to give, two friends of mine (one was strength coach, now at UD, one played and coached there, now at JHU) who worked their in the AD said they are only for about 5 grand each, and there are less than fifteen of them. Doesnt really stack up as a gift, as many students get those anyway. Hard to compete then, and that was only four years ago. Doubt they even "ramped' that up, but I only have inside knowledge from a few years back.

[Bill]

Doc

I'm sure DFW can shed some light on this, but I believe Georgetown CAN convert the grants in aid...but they simply choose not too. The certainly have the option to - they are a DI athletic department, and it's not like they would need league or NCAA permission to do so!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Here's what I think: Imagine Top 25 Fordham playing Top 25 Georgetown in RFK, Patriot League title hopes on the line - a bitter rivalry, one that, say, gets Comcast SportsNet interested in broadcasting it on TV.

Georgetown can probably set the scene for games like this without necessarily spending like Fordham. Specifically, Wagner has proven that this is possible.

[JimboCBA72]

If the Huskies cant land a big name (and it depends on how you look at Pasqualoni,if he was or not) one of these guys will be up in Storrs, no question. Ambrose has been a HC longer, but has his success and squad are built with a bunch more transfers and carte blance with admissions office. If it matters to the Admin at UConn, they may take a leap on Moorhead despite being a HC just two years, as he has done it with tighter academic kids and less transfers.

Bite your tongue!xlolx

[Bill]

Here's what I think: Imagine Top 25 Fordham playing Top 25 Georgetown in RFK, Patriot League title hopes on the line - a bitter rivalry, one that, say, gets Comcast SportsNet interested in broadcasting it on TV.

Georgetown can probably set the scene for games like this without necessarily spending like Fordham. Specifically, Wagner has proven that this is possible.

LFN

While you could be right, I really can't envision that scenario. In fact, in your example I see Wagner's post-season success last year comparable to a PL team when we used to make the playoffs. Most years, it was a close game and lose, or surprise everyone and actually win a game. Why? without the full allotment of scholarships, it is too difficult to swim for very long at the deep end of the pool.

Anyhow, picture this: It's 2017, and everyone in the PL has the full scholarships going...with the limited spending model that you mentioned, Georgetown could be competitive in any one or two PL games...but playing these teams week in and out will be too tough for them.

It's like Lehigh during the past 15 or so years. In any one - two games, we could give the Yankee/CAA teams a run for their money...but to think Lehigh could have competed for a League title in the CAA during that time (without the same number of scholarships) is not realistic.

Sorry for rambling....

[RichH2]

No, Bill not rambling,just facts. Little doubt that no PL squad could compete successfully week in and week out in CAA or the like. Likewise,given LU's success ,there is no doubt that we can beat them one on one. We'llsee what impact 60 schollies will have. W/o redshirting or allowing need aid to supplement merit aid, unlikely that PL will match CAA in the depth of quality teams.

[Doc QB]

Doc

I'm sure DFW can shed some light on this, but I believe Georgetown CAN convert the grants in aid...but they simply choose not too. The certainly have the option to - they are a DI athletic department, and it's not like they would need league or NCAA permission to do so!

Sure, they could. But do the math...it would take ten of the afrementioned $5000 grants to make up just one full ticket. They have less than fifteen of those total. The rest of the aid comes from general pop funds and is loans, work study, limited grants. A willingness by the general aid department to just give the AD that cash to be called football scholarships would have to occur in the absence of the AD raising the money or getting a gift. Neither has happened and the former wont.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Do we know if Kempf is going to be the No. 1 QB, or not? GU hasn't released game notes yet, and coach Coen on the Lehigh Football Report implied that he felt Kempf was going to be the starter.

Last week Kempf lasted 2 series and the 4th string QB got most of the reps and the game's only TD (late).

[DFW HOYA]

Do we know if Kempf is going to be the No. 1 QB, or not? GU hasn't released game notes yet, and coach Coen on the Lehigh Football Report implied that he felt Kempf was going to be the starter.


Georgetown is always late on game notes and there are usually the "game time decision" qualifiers from Coach Kelly. Of more pressing convern from the media notes: "GU will likely be without DL Hunter Kiselick and preseason All-Patriot League DL Sean Campbell, as well as CB Ettian Scott and CB Porter Huntley." Put another way, when you are down two on the line and two in the secondary vs. Lehigh, that's trouble.

As to the earlier post discussing $5k aid packages, I have no firm knowledge either way but it seems low. Then, again, if Georgetown was really at 1.5 equivalencies in 2011, that's a better coaching job from Patenaude than we realize.

[RamRay]

A lot has been said about coach Moorehead, Norbritch carrying the team, coach Patneaude etc. but in the end, it is the HC's decisons and selections that make the W-L records of a team.

I came across this on TSN's site:
http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=sportsnetwork&page=cfoot2/news/news.aspx?id=4631457
But Coastal Carolina (6-0) and Fordham (7-0) continue to have two of the more surprising seasons. Both teams reached their highest rankings ever with this week's poll, with Coastal Carolina moving up to No. 6 and Fordham reaching No. 8.
Both teams are building off impressive 2012 seasons behind second-year head coaches.
Coastal earned its first FCS playoff win under coach Joe Moglia last November. On Saturday, the Chanticleers routed Gardner-Webb, 42-7, in an important Big South Conference game to set up an even bigger game at Liberty. Both teams earned a share of the conference title last season.
At Fordham, coach Joe Moorhead improved a one-win team in 2011 to a six-win club in his first season at the Patriot League school last year. The Rams have bested that total with their best start since 1930. They are coming off a 34-12 win at Georgetown this past Saturday.


The HC selects the players, the HC selects the plays, the HC hires the line coaches, the HC takes the heat and responsibility. Both Coastal and Fordham owe much of their turn around and success to their coaches, Moglia and Moorehead.

Interesting that as both programs are on parallel tracks, both coaches are Fordham grads.

[CFBfan]

Do we know if Kempf is going to be the No. 1 QB, or not? GU hasn't released game notes yet, and coach Coen on the Lehigh Football Report implied that he felt Kempf was going to be the starter.

Last week Kempf lasted 2 series and the 4th string QB got most of the reps and the game's only TD (late).

he's done for the year

[CFBfan]

A lot has been said about coach Moorehead, Norbritch carrying the team, coach Patneaude etc. but in the end, it is the HC's decisons and selections that make the W-L records of a team.

I came across this on TSN's site:
http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=sportsnetwork&page=cfoot2/news/news.aspx?id=4631457
But Coastal Carolina (6-0) and Fordham (7-0) continue to have two of the more surprising seasons. Both teams reached their highest rankings ever with this week's poll, with Coastal Carolina moving up to No. 6 and Fordham reaching No. 8.
Both teams are building off impressive 2012 seasons behind second-year head coaches.
Coastal earned its first FCS playoff win under coach Joe Moglia last November. On Saturday, the Chanticleers routed Gardner-Webb, 42-7, in an important Big South Conference game to set up an even bigger game at Liberty. Both teams earned a share of the conference title last season.
At Fordham, coach Joe Moorhead improved a one-win team in 2011 to a six-win club in his first season at the Patriot League school last year. The Rams have bested that total with their best start since 1930. They are coming off a 34-12 win at Georgetown this past Saturday.


The HC selects the players, the HC selects the plays, the HC hires the line coaches, the HC takes the heat and responsibility. Both Coastal and Fordham owe much of their turn around and success to their coaches, Moglia and Moorehead.

Interesting that as both programs are on parallel tracks, both coaches are Fordham grads.

while i generaly agree, the asst's have a lot to do with what players come in as the all have recruiting areas AND not all HC's call the plays! Kelly never calls the plays

[DFW HOYA]

while i generaly agree, the asst's have a lot to do with what players come in as the all have recruiting areas AND not all HC's call the plays! Kelly never calls the plays

Correct. Marino calls the offensive plays, Sgarlata runs the defense.

[Doc QB]

As to the earlier post discussing $5k aid packages, I have no firm knowledge either way but it seems low. Then, again, if Georgetown was really at 1.5 equivalencies in 2011, that's a better coaching job from Patenaude than we realize.

DFW, not to beat a dead horse, but my knowledge is from the inside, i could PM the names of my buds who spoke of the five grand football grants thown into the athletes total aid pakage. It shows on the field and in the retention of players at GU that was disussed on a thread way back.