Southland and Patriot...Just how bad?

[Tribe4SF]

Two conferences that look like they may not have a single team deserving of the playoffs. South Dakota St. (which lost to a Div. III) seems to have hit the easy part of their schedule, winning two weeks in a row in LA over ranked Southland teams. SE Louisiana loses at home to Gardner Webb. The Patriot owned by the Ivy, and a now exposed NEC (Monmouth hammered by Stony Brook/ Albany falls to Cornell).

Southland is 8-22 OOC, with four wins over Div. II (and one loss).

[TexasTerror]

Southland is 8-22 OOC, with four wins over Div. II (and one loss).

Math is wrong somewhere...

SLC Div I wins are SHSU over Missouri St, NWST over DelSt, SELA over J'ville...so we must have more Div II wins, that's five... (McN has 1, SHSU has 1, Nicholls has 1, TxSt has 1 and NWST has 1)...

SLC is 0-14 against Div I-A competition...

Take out the 5-2 against Div II (SFA did lose to UCA, which counts as Div II)and 0-14 against I-A...SHSU is 3-6 against I-AA competition...

[Tribe4SF]

You're right. I missed the Nicholls win over Southern Arkansas.

[JohnStOnge]

I don't think there's any question that the Southland is down this year but I also don't think SDSU is a bad team. I think it showed that at UNI.

While I know fans say this sort of thing all the time I think McNeese has a chance to be a playoff caliber team if it stops the sloppy play. One manifestation of the sloppy play I'm talking about is that the Cowboys average 12 penalties and 109 penalty yards per game. Even when they blew out NAIA West Virginia Tech they had 13 penalties for 125 yards. If you haven't seen the thread on the game, they had 19 penalties for 174 yards last night.

They had two TDs called back last night for holding calls that were away from the action and had no impact on the plays. They ended up getting a field goal after one TD was negated but nothing after the other. They had numerous instances of taking themselves out of favorable down/distance situations with penalties as well. When they were on defense, they helped SDSU's offense pretty much with multiple late hits.

There's more to it than that too. Mishandled snaps, bad exchanges between QBs and running backs, etc. happen way too frequently. Frankly, the fact that they even had a chance last night with all the screw ups they had is encouraging in a perverse way because it implies that they have the potential to be a pretty good team.

One thing good about the I-AA system is that, if a team can improve with regard to that sort of thing and win its conference, what happened early in the season doesn't have to matter. The only problem is that it's been four games now and, instead of a trend towards improvement, last night was the sloppiest performance yet.

[BigApp]

Southland is 8-22 OOC, with four wins over Div. II (and one loss).

aren't 13 of their losses against I-A teams? If so, that evens things up a little.

Still, there's no excuse for losing to D2's or Gardner-Webb though.

[Tribe4SF]

It's a near mathematical impossibility for more than one Southland team to be playoff eligible this year, so the conference champ will be it. The SLC does get props for playing a tough schedule.

Penalties and ball-handling are part of the game, which is one of the reasons I'm dropping McNeese from my top 25. SDSU outgained McNeese 344 -258 and had 3 turnovers to McNeese's 2. They also had 80 yards of penalties, which pales in comparison to McNeese, but is still sloppy football.

[JohnStOnge]

It's a near mathematical impossibility for more than one Southland team to be playoff eligible this year, so the conference champ will be it. The SLC does get props for playing a tough schedule.

Penalties and ball-handling are part of the game, which is one of the reasons I'm dropping McNeese from my top 25. SDSU outgained McNeese 344 -258 and had 3 turnovers to McNeese's 2. They also had 80 yards of penalties, which pales in comparison to McNeese, but is still sloppy football.

Oh, I completely agree with them not being in the top 25 right now. I wouldn't have ever had them in it this year to begin with.

But, as much as I like to look at statistics, I think the total yardage stats from last night are a bit deceptive. I think McNeese did a lot more to stop its own drives than SDSU as well as a lot more to help SDSU drives than SDSU did to help McNeese drives. It is true though that the McNeese offense disappeared in the second half, though.

[GeauxColonels]

It's a near mathematical impossibility for more than one Southland team to be playoff eligible this year, so the conference champ will be it. The SLC does get props for playing a tough schedule.

Penalties and ball-handling are part of the game, which is one of the reasons I'm dropping McNeese from my top 25. SDSU outgained McNeese 344 -258 and had 3 turnovers to McNeese's 2. They also had 80 yards of penalties, which pales in comparison to McNeese, but is still sloppy football.
Screw the mathematical possibilities......no one deserves to go to the playoffs other than the SLC champ. This year has been a disastor thus far for the SLC and...now that conference play is upon us, I don't see ANY team going undefeated in the SLC. It will be an interesting race for the SLC trophy, but that's the only playoff rep this year for us.

[youwouldno]

The Southland is horrible, I mean really, really, really horrible. I've made money just reflexively betting against SLC teams because the computers can't understand how bad they are. The Patriot is worse though. Playoff expansion? Ha, there aren't enough quality teams to fill the playoffs this year.

[RabidRabbit]

The Southland is horrible, I mean really, really, really horrible. I've made money just reflexively betting against SLC teams because the computers can't understand how bad they are. The Patriot is worse though. Playoff expansion? Ha, there aren't enough quality teams to fill the playoffs this year.

There is if Transitionals were eligible :nod: :nod: UC-Davis, NDSU, UCA, even SDSU are looking better. :smiley_wi

[ngineer]

Certainly the PL is not having the year it has had in the past. However, some of these teams the PL have lost to are not chopped liver. Ask Delaware about Albany. Princeton and Harvard are undefeated. Lehigh's three losses are by a total of 7 points. Yes, they could be 0-4 (as their win over A-10 Villanova was by 3), but they could just as easily be 4-0 without some stupid mistakes. The difference between success and failure can be very fine and over the course of the full season, the good teams learn to rise from the failures. Same as UNI did last year after a very shaky start. I agree that the PL will likely not get an at-large this year based upon OOC play to date, but depending on how the rest of the country does as well as how strong the OOC's were when measured on a full season, that is not a foregone conclusion.

[JohnStOnge]

The Southland is horrible, I mean really, really, really horrible. I've made money just reflexively betting against SLC teams because the computers can't understand how bad they are. The Patriot is worse though. Playoff expansion? Ha, there aren't enough quality teams to fill the playoffs this year.

What do you mean, the "computers don't understand?" Going into this weekend, no Southland team was rated higher than 37th in the Sagarin Rankings. It's the human polls that, for example, had McNeese rated as a top 25 team. The AGS poll had them at 16th, the Coaches poll at 18th, and the Sports Network Poll at 16th.

Meanwhile, Sagarin had them at 39th and a 2 1/2 point underdog at home to SDSU. Massey had them at 30th.

To me, if anything, that's consistent with my belief that power ratings are superior to human polls.

[youwouldno]

Well for instance, this weekend SHSU started out as only a 45 point dog to Texas, similar situation last week with SELA and TX Tech, I did lose when I thought TX State could beat Southern Utah though.

[shakdaddy3]

To me, if anything, that's consistent with my belief that power ratings are superior to human polls.

do u mean something like the BCS system and GPI?

[Go...gate]

Two conferences that look like they may not have a single team deserving of the playoffs. South Dakota St. (which lost to a Div. III) seems to have hit the easy part of their schedule, winning two weeks in a row in LA over ranked Southland teams. SE Louisiana loses at home to Gardner Webb. The Patriot owned by the Ivy, and a now exposed NEC (Monmouth hammered by Stony Brook/ Albany falls to Cornell).

Southland is 8-22 OOC, with four wins over Div. II (and one loss).

You gotta love these pronouncements, made with barely conceled glee, that the PL is dead after a third of the season. What a G-D crock. Let's play all the games and then decide, OK?

[JohnStOnge]

do u mean something like the BCS system and GPI?

I do believe that both of those systems would present a better picture of who the best teams are if they left human polls out. But the objective of the GPI, as I understand it, is to anticipate what the I-AA playoff committee is going to do. And what the I-AA committee does is not necessarily consistent with identifying the best at large candidates. The I-AA playoff committee is, after all, a human poll of sorts.

[Dallas Demon]

Well for instance, this weekend SHSU started out as only a 45 point dog to Texas, similar situation last week with SELA and TX Tech, I did lose when I thought TX State could beat Southern Utah though.

Hold on a minute. Southern Utah is pretty good, Cal Poly was lucky to beat them. SDSU is a decent team too. The Southland, this season, has by far the toughest OOC schedule when compared to everyone else:

Southland (7 members), 15 I-A games, 9 BCS schools
Big Sky (9 members), 13 I-A games, 7 BCS schools
Gateway (8 members), 9 I-A games, 8 BCS schools
Atlantic 10 (12 members), 9 I-A games, 6 BCS schools
Ohio Valley (9 members), 8 I-A games, 5 BCS schools
Southern (8 members), 7 I-A games, 6 BCS schools
Great West (5 members), 5 I-A games, 1 BCS school
SWAC (10 members), 4 I-A games, 0 BCS schools
MEAC (9 members), 3 I-A games, 2 BCS schools
Big South (5 members), 1 I-A games, 0 BCS schools
Ivy League (8 members), 0 I-A games, 0 BCS schools
Patriot (7 members), 0 I-A games, 0 BCS schools
Northeast, MAA, Pioneer 0 I-A games

It could be that we are taking such a beating while playing the big-name schools we haven't had the time to recover, not sure. But comparing wins/losses to conferences who play easy OOC schedules (mid-majors, Division II opponents consistently) is a bit unfair.:nonono2:

[Lionsrking]

Two conferences that look like they may not have a single team deserving of the playoffs. South Dakota St. (which lost to a Div. III) seems to have hit the easy part of their schedule, winning two weeks in a row in LA over ranked Southland teams. SE Louisiana loses at home to Gardner Webb. The Patriot owned by the Ivy, and a now exposed NEC (Monmouth hammered by Stony Brook/ Albany falls to Cornell).

Southland is 8-22 OOC, with four wins over Div. II (and one loss).


Bottom line is we didn't win, but in our defense, we dominated Gardner-Webb in just about every facet but turned the ball over twice deep in our own territory and gave them two quick, easy TDs in the third quarter. We moved the ball up and down the field almost at will but bogged down inside their ten on three separate occasions and only had two FGs to show for it. They had one good drive the entire night and had a big play on an option play but other than that we pretty much shut them down. It's a bad loss no matter how you spin it but it's a game we SHOULD have won convincingly.

[Frosty The Snowbuff]

I don't think there's any question that the Southland is down this year but I also don't think SDSU is a bad team. I think it showed that at UNI.

While I know fans say this sort of thing all the time I think McNeese has a chance to be a playoff caliber team if it stops the sloppy play. One manifestation of the sloppy play I'm talking about is that the Cowboys average 12 penalties and 109 penalty yards per game. Even when they blew out NAIA West Virginia Tech they had 13 penalties for 125 yards. If you haven't seen the thread on the game, they had 19 penalties for 174 yards last night.

They had two TDs called back last night for holding calls that were away from the action and had no impact on the plays. They ended up getting a field goal after one TD was negated but nothing after the other. They had numerous instances of taking themselves out of favorable down/distance situations with penalties as well. When they were on defense, they helped SDSU's offense pretty much with multiple late hits.

There's more to it than that too. Mishandled snaps, bad exchanges between QBs and running backs, etc. happen way too frequently. Frankly, the fact that they even had a chance last night with all the screw ups they had is encouraging in a perverse way because it implies that they have the potential to be a pretty good team.

One thing good about the I-AA system is that, if a team can improve with regard to that sort of thing and win its conference, what happened early in the season doesn't have to matter. The only problem is that it's been four games now and, instead of a trend towards improvement, last night was the sloppiest performance yet.

Seesh....that reports of McNeese and SDSU sounds just like us. Buku penalties, Too many missed opportunities in the red zone, etc. etc. But I didn't think SDSU was bad at all to begin with. SDSU's problem (as in the past) was finishing games off. Looks like they finished one out this past week.

[*****]

do u mean something like the BCS system and GPI?Uh the first GPI for 2006 comes out this week...

[RabidRabbit]

Seesh....that reports of McNeese and SDSU sounds just like us. Buku penalties, Too many missed opportunities in the red zone, etc. etc. But I didn't think SDSU was bad at all to begin with. SDSU's problem (as in the past) was finishing games off. Looks like they finished one out this past week.

While SDSU won the game based on 4 FG's by Parker Douglas,:hurray: :hurray: McNeese had two TD's eliminated because of stupid, away-from-the-ball penalties.

Yes, Rabbits pulled a hat trick, but McNeese did it to themselves. :nonono2:

[BillLuc1982]

At least the Southland and Patriot get more respect than the Gateway. YSU so deserved to be in the playoffs last year, but Lafayette got in instead. In that case, they should have put Indiana State in.

[Pokes14]

While SDSU won the game based on 4 FG's by Parker Douglas,:hurray: :hurray: McNeese had two TD's eliminated because of stupid, away-from-the-ball penalties.

Yes, Rabbits pulled a hat trick, but McNeese did it to themselves. :nonono2:


Yeah we did it to ourselves. No one else to blame. Our coaches decided to play the second half with a not to lose attitude rather than go out and win. SDSU wanted it, and deserved it.

[shakdaddy3]

Uh the first GPI for 2006 comes out this week...
OH YEA IT DOES!

[buckp]

While SDSU won the game based on 4 FG's by Parker Douglas,:hurray: :hurray: McNeese had two TD's eliminated because of stupid, away-from-the-ball penalties.

Yes, Rabbits pulled a hat trick, but McNeese did it to themselves. :nonono2:

Amen....:(

[Hansel]

At least the Southland and Patriot get more respect than the Gateway. YSU so deserved to be in the playoffs last year, but Lafayette got in instead. In that case, they should have put Indiana State in.
looks like the dead horse is riding again!

[Pard4Life]

looks like the dead horse is riding again!

Ha.. and who is leading the votes in most 'vocal/irritating fans'? :rolleyes:

[carney2]

At least the Southland and Patriot get more respect than the Gateway. YSU so deserved to be in the playoffs last year, but Lafayette got in instead. In that case, they should have put Indiana State in.

2005 'guins:

no wins over teams with winning records;
no wins over playoff teams;
big losers with mouths to match!

Smack you!

[BillLuc1982]

2005 'guins:

no wins over teams with winning records;
no wins over playoff teams;
big losers with mouths to match!

Smack you!

2005 Guins spanked W. Kentucky and lost to N. Iowa in the UNI Dome. USC would have trouble with N. Iowa in the UNI Dome.

2006 Guins

Only loss to PENN STATE
Beat Western Illinois on the road
Owned MAINE and UC DAVIS
6-1

Let's see your team play in the Gateway!

[blukeys]

USC would have trouble with N. Iowa in the UNI Dome.

Easily one of the dumbest statements I have read on this board. Even the Captain UNI supporter that he is would not make this claim. I am now beginning to understand why the Captain trashes YSU posters on this board of course statements like this make it all too easy.



2006 Guins

Only loss to PENN STATE
Beat Western Illinois on the road
Owned MAINE and UC DAVIS
6-1

Let's see your team play in the Gateway!

What a 2006 record has to do with anything that happened in 2005 is beyond me. If you want to drag up the old arguments about the 2005 playoffs :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: Then at least compare the 2005 LU and YSU teams otherwise you are just sounding like certain other whiny YSU posters. :waawaa: :waawaa: :waawaa: :waawaa: :waawaa: :waawaa: :waawaa: :waawaa: :waawaa: :waawaa: :waawaa: :waawaa: :waawaa: :waawaa: :waawaa:

[Hansel]

2005 Guins spanked W. Kentucky and lost to N. Iowa in the UNI Dome. USC would have trouble with N. Iowa in the UNI Dome.

2006 Guins

Only loss to PENN STATE
Beat Western Illinois on the road
Owned MAINE and UC DAVIS
6-1

Let's see your team play in the Gateway!
UNI got "housed" by a (good) DII school this year- they are not unbeatable in the UNI-Dome (which has a crappy selection of concessions I must say)

[BillLuc1982]

Easily one of the dumbest statements I have read on this board. Even the Captain UNI supporter that he is would not make this claim. I am now beginning to understand why the Captain trashes YSU posters on this board of course statements like this make it all too easy.



What a 2006 record has to do with anything that happened in 2005 is beyond me. If you want to drag up the old arguments about the 2005 playoffs :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: Then at least compare the 2005 LU and YSU teams otherwise you are just sounding like certain other whiny YSU posters. :waawaa: :waawaa: :waawaa: :waawaa: :waawaa: :waawaa: :waawaa: :waawaa: :waawaa: :waawaa: :waawaa: :waawaa: :waawaa: :waawaa: :waawaa:

Bad argument there! In 2005, the UNI Dome would be next to impossible to win in. You're talking about 2006 UNI and 2005 YSU. As for LU, head-to-head matchup is the only way to figure who is better. The East Coast teams are not as strong as the Gateway. I would love to see any of these Patriot teams play Gateway teams. I think Indiana State would even beat some of them (any year, not just 05 or 06).

[ngineer]

Bad argument there! In 2005, the UNI Dome would be next to impossible to win in. You're talking about 2006 UNI and 2005 YSU. As for LU, head-to-head matchup is the only way to figure who is better. The East Coast teams are not as strong as the Gateway. I would love to see any of these Patriot teams play Gateway teams. I think Indiana State would even beat some of them (any year, not just 05 or 06).

We've held our own quite well when we've met up with Gateway teams in the past. This year may slightly down from previous, but the past six years has shown the best of the Patriot able ;) to kick the azz of the best of the Gateway..

[cosmo here]

We've held our own quite well when we've met up with Gateway teams in the past. This year may slightly down from previous, but the past six years has shown the best of the Patriot able ;) to kick the azz of the best of the Gateway..

thanks ngineer . . I wasn't sure when he would figure out that he meant LC instead of LU . . this Lafayette-Youngstown discussion was old the first couple times around last November.

[BillLuc1982]

I meant Lafayette. Lehigh is one of the most respectable I-AA teams. The Patriot is way too easy for Lehigh. Lehigh and YSU would give each other a good game each year where a big play is the difference maker. Only exception: when Klacik was our O-coordinator, Lehigh would have walloped YSU. I'm so glad he's gone. He and I had a moment when I wanted to try out for the team back in 03.

[cosmo here]

I meant Lafayette. Lehigh is one of the most respectable I-AA teams. The Patriot is way too easy for Lehigh. Lehigh and YSU would give each other a good game each year where a big play is the difference maker. Only exception: when Klacik was our O-coordinator, Lehigh would have walloped YSU. I'm so glad he's gone. He and I had a moment when I wanted to try out for the team back in 03.

Really? Have you seen their results this year? Lafayette and Colgate aren't any better right now.

[blukeys]

Bad argument there! In 2005, the UNI Dome would be next to impossible to win in. You're talking about 2006 UNI and 2005 YSU. As for LU, head-to-head matchup is the only way to figure who is better. The East Coast teams are not as strong as the Gateway. I would love to see any of these Patriot teams play Gateway teams. I think Indiana State would even beat some of them (any year, not just 05 or 06).


No you are the one with the bad argument. Did you even read this thread??????xidiotx xidiotx xidiotx xidiotx xidiotx

Go back to my post and actually READ WHO I RESPONDED TO.

The original post said that USC (University of Southern California for the Youngstown Crowd) would have a hard time winning in the UNI Dome. I replied that this particular analogy was dumb. I stand by it. Southern California would beat UNI in the Dome. There I have said it. Does any UNI fan wish to contradict this statement?

It seems only Youngstown who consistently loses in the Dome wants to advance the notion that Southern California would have problems winning there. I know UNI enjoys a great home field advantage but to say they could give problems to a I-A championship caliber team just by virtue of a home field advantage is absurd and would not be backed up by even the most partisan UNI fan.

Every time I read a post of a YSU adherent my respect for a program that I have followed since 1974 goes steadily downhill. I guess I need to quit reading the posts of their fans. :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: