Does this hit warrant a player being kicked out of the game?

[OBC]

This hit happened during the 4Q of the South Dakota vs Missouri St game. The player was ejected and suspended for the first half of next weeks game. The head of MVFC officiating reviewed the film today and confirmed this was a flagrant helmet to helmet penalty and has upheld the ruling.

I am biased, what are your thoughts?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcdQuwVyNuc

[Twentysix]

Its certainly helmet to helmet.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

As the rule is now I don't think it's questionable. Heck the QB isn't even going toward him and lowering his head as well which is what I always think is BS on those sorts of calls.

[PantherRob82]

Within the current rules, yes.

[rokamortis]

Yes.

[bjtheflamesfan]

Based on viewing the video and considering the necessary interpretation of the rule on helmet to helmet contact...yes

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Led with the helmet.

[Walkon79]

Yes. He also launched himself into the shoulder / head area.
No question.

[Thundar]

gonna get that called every time, especially on a QB

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Agreed. This brings up a larger point that my friend and I were discussing the other day. You will hear people complain about "touch football" and "we can't play like we were taught". If guys would just follow the fundamentals in tackling, they would never be called on it. Too many guys are looking to blow up the opposing player. Had he put his arms over his head to try to defect the pass, he would have changed the trajectory of his hit. He wasn't going to tackle a ball carrier, just knock the QB down.

Same thing with hits to WRs. Most guys don't even put their arms out, they just try to knock into them with their shoulder or some other body part. You give up too much control of the experience and risk a flag like that.

[goyotes]

Here is the rule as posted on USD's message board with the key parts underlined.

Targeting and Initiating Contact With the Crown of the Helmet
ARTICLE 3. No player shall target and initiate contact against an opponent
with the crown (top) of his helmet. When in question, it is a foul. (Rule 9-6)
(A.R. 9-1-3-I)
RULE 9 / CONDUCT OF PLAYERS AND OTHERS SUBJECT TO THE RULES FR-87
PENALTY—15 yards. For dead-ball fouls, 15 yards from the succeeding
spot. Automatic first down for fouls by Team B if not in conflict with other
rules. For fouls in the first half: Disqualification for the remainder of the
game. For fouls in the second half: Disqualification for the remainder of
the game and the first half of the next game. If the foul occurs in the second
half of the last game of the season, players with remaining eligibility shall
serve the suspension during the first game of the following season. The
disqualification is subject to review by Instant Replay (Rule 12-3-5-f). [S38,
S24 and S47]
For games in which Instant Replay is not used: If a player is disqualified
in the second half, the conference may consult the national coordinator of
football officials who would then facilitate a video review. Based on the
review, if the national coordinator concludes that the player should not
have been disqualified, the conference may vacate the suspension. If the
national coordinator supports the disqualification, the suspension for the
next game will remain.
Targeting and Initiating Contact to Head or Neck Area of a
Defenseless Player
ARTICLE 4. No player shall target and initiate contact to the head or neck
area of a defenseless opponent with the helmet, forearm, hand, fist, elbow or
shoulder. When in question, it is a foul (Rules 2-27-14 and 9-6). (A.R. 9-1-4-
I-VI)
PENALTY—15 yards. For dead-ball fouls, 15 yards from the succeeding
spot. Automatic first down for fouls by Team B if not in conflict with other
rules. For fouls in the first half: Disqualification for the remainder of the
game. For fouls in the second half: Disqualification for the remainder of
the game and the first half of the next game. If the foul occurs in the second
half of the last game of the season, players with remaining eligibility shall
serve the suspension during the first game of the following season. The
disqualification is subject to review by Instant Replay (Rule 12-3-5-f). [S38,
S24 and S47]
For games in which Instant Replay is not used: If a player is disqualified
in the second half, the conference may consult the national coordinator of
football officials who would then facilitate a video review. Based on the
review, if the national coordinator concludes that the player should not
have been disqualified, the conference may vacate the suspension. If the
national coordinator supports the disqualification, the suspension for the
next game will remain.
Notes to 9-1-3 and 9-1-4
Note 1: “Targeting” means that a player takes aim at an opponent for purposes
of attacking with an apparent intent that goes beyond making a legal tackle or
a legal block or playing the ball. Some indicators of targeting include but are
not limited to:
FR-88 RULE 9 / CONDUCT OF PLAYE RS AND OTHERS SUBJECT TO THE RULES
• Launch—a player leaving his feet to attack an opponent by an upward and
forward thrust of the body to make contact in the head or neck area
• A crouch followed by an upward and forward thrust to attack with contact at
the head or neck area, even though one or both feet are still on the ground
• Leading with helmet, forearm, fist, hand or elbow to attack with contact at the
head or neck area
• Lowering the head before attacking by initiating contact with the crown of
the helmet
Note 2: Defenseless player (Rule 2-27-14):
• A player in the act of or just after throwing a pass.
• A receiver attempting to catch a pass, or one who has completed a catch and
has not had time to protect himself or has not clearly become a ball carrier.
• A kicker in the act of or just after kicking a ball, or during the kick or the
return.
• A kick returner attempting to catch or recover a kick.
• A player on the ground.
• A player obviously out of the play.
• A player who receives a blind-side block.
• A ball carrier already in the grasp of an opponent and whose forward progress
has been stopped.
• A quarterback any time after a change of possession.

Read more: http://usdcoyotesports.proboards.com/thread/951/tyler-starr-decision?page=1&scrollTo=13557#ixzz2h4ubzrUS

[clenz]

Without question.

Hit with crown of his helmet and launched himself with intent of using helmet at the head level...

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[ALPHAGRIZ1]

I never watched the video, but if the hit isnt well after the play or way out of bounds there is NEVER a reason to kick a guy out of a football game for hitting a player on the football field.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Ok, now I have watched that video and whoever suspended him should be fired immediately. I dont care about the "new rules" ***** that it was clean and QBs need to be hit more. This is total BS and somebody should lose their job over it.


I hate this country.

[WWII]

When I watch it, I see him leading with his hands and arms, which collapse some on impact. I don't see that much helmet to helmet contact. (But I'm old)

[Southern Bison]

If your boy hadn't left his feet, he wouldn't have been ejected. All because of the launching...

[heath]

I never watched the video, but if the hit isnt well after the play or way out of bounds there is NEVER a reason to kick a guy out of a football game for hitting a player on the football field.
New rule

[heath]

If your boy hadn't left his feet, he wouldn't have been ejected. All because of the launching...
+1 Agreed..........shoulda just wrecked his knees and taken the late hit penalty. That's what its leading towards.

[PAllen]

Launched himself an led with the crown of his helmet. Absolutely deserved the flag and ejection. I'm not a big fan of the newer "touch football" rules (heck, that's one of the reasons I don't watch the NFL anymore) but this play has been illegal for decades.

[clenz]

This....

http://i348.photobucket.com/albums/q340/unipanthers10/NewPicture6_zps58167336.png

is literally THE definition of targeting, launching, leading with the crown of the helmet, helmet to helmet.

Clear launch
hands below the head/shoulders
Facemask down
Crown of helmet at the facemask of other player
Other player in a defenseless position
Player is a QB



Please don't tell me you actually disagree with that call....

[McNeese75]

yep, McNeese has had two players suspended this year for a half game for hits less flagrant.

[Smitty]

The defender even lowers his head to hit before he launches with his right foot.

[andy7171]

It's turning into a game for pvssies.

[F'N Hawks]

Yes. He launched up and led with his helmet, right in front of the referee, who's only job is to watch the QB. Easiest call of the day for him.

[Sycamore62]

Didnt we used to call this spearing? Seems like it was already illegal when I started playing in about 1985.

[BisonBacker]

Given what we now know about concussions and the long term effects they have I guess plays like this have to be flagged. Yeah it's a different brand of football from many years ago but is that a bad thing? Player safety has to come first. Sure playing the game is fraught with potential injuries but anything that can be done to prevent the more serious and long term ones has to be. Like it or not it is what it is. Why he didn't just lean his head over and plow into him with his shoulder pads as opposed to leading with the helmet? May have still been a late hit but a 15 yard penalty versus 1/2 game suspension and the potential to hurt the QB this one had to be called.

[clenz]

Didnt we used to call this spearing? Seems like it was already illegal when I started playing in about 1985.
Yep...just changed the terminology on it.

[ElonFirefighter]

He lead with his helmet so yes, based on the rules

[Bisonator]

IMO, no it doesn't. He led with his arms, he wasn't trying to hit him in the head IMO. They may as well make it flag football now days!xsmhx

[clenz]

His arms are below his shoulders with his head in front of both...

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[penguinpower]

This hit happened during the 4Q of the South Dakota vs Missouri St game. The player was ejected and suspended for the first half of next weeks game. The head of MVFC officiating reviewed the film today and confirmed this was a flagrant helmet to helmet penalty and has upheld the ruling.

I am biased, what are your thoughts?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcdQuwVyNuc


Must have been MVFC refs. There is no reason for ejection.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Given what we now know about concussions and the long term effects they have I guess plays like this have to be flagged. Yeah it's a different brand of football from many years ago but is that a bad thing? Player safety has to come first. Sure playing the game is fraught with potential injuries but anything that can be done to prevent the more serious and long term ones has to be. Like it or not it is what it is. Why he didn't just lean his head over and plow into him with his shoulder pads as opposed to leading with the helmet? May have still been a late hit but a 15 yard penalty versus 1/2 game suspension and the potential to hurt the QB this one had to be called.

If you have this mindset then DONT PLAY THE GAME.

Its that simple, no amount of pussifying the game will ever make it safe, its a mans game and everyone knows going into it what can happen.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

New rule
Dont care its BS

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

This....

http://i348.photobucket.com/albums/q340/unipanthers10/NewPicture6_zps58167336.png

is literally THE definition of targeting, launching, leading with the crown of the helmet, helmet to helmet.

Clear launch
hands below the head/shoulders
Facemask down
Crown of helmet at the facemask of other player
Other player in a defenseless position
Player is a QB



Please don't tell me you actually disagree with that call....


100% disagree

[clenz]

100% disagree

You disagree with the word rule...or the fact that the hit is exactly what the rule is aiming to prevent

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[BisonBacker]

If you have this mindset then DONT PLAY THE GAME.

Its that simple, no amount of pussifying the game will ever make it safe, its a mans game and everyone knows going into it what can happen.
The rules have changed. I get that it's not old school football as I pointed out in my post. I said it's a different brand of football these days from what it used to be. Debate away right or wrong but when you look at the never ending list of guys who played pro ball who are now having health issues due to primarily concussion type injuries I can't argue with them. Medical evidence and autopsies on those who have passed away from any number of ailments related to concussions including suicide (jr. seau) that shows abnormalities in the brain from concussion symptoms makes me say this is a good rule.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Both, it wasnt illegal and a hit is a hit between the whistles as far as I am concerned. Its BS to try and say some hits are OK and others are not. I dont care about the pussy rule or how its written the original question was "Does this hit warrent a player being kicked out of a game" I said no because it doesnt.

Now if the question from the OP was "Under the new pussy rules written by the PC crowd and safety Nazis everywhere, would this hit be considered illegal and the player should be kicked out of the game?
My answer would have been different, but I answered the question posed.



I now recuse myself from this thread because I am a man and I dont deal with shades of gray.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

The rules have changed. I get that it's not old school football as I pointed out in my post. I said it's a different brand of football these days from what it used to be. Debate away right or wrong but when you look at the never ending list of guys who played pro ball who are now having health issues due to primarily concussion type injuries I can't argue with them. Medical evidence and autopsies on those who have passed away from any number of ailments related to concussions including suicide (jr. seau) that shows abnormalities in the brain from concussion symptoms makes me say this is a good rule.

I dont agree with the evidence from these studies but even if I did, so what?

These players played the game by their choice, nobody made them. Its like jumping off a bridge then suing the state or county because they didnt tell you not to jump off a bridge. Its their choice mind your own *****ing business.

[clenz]

The issue is there are lawsuits happening and the nfl/ncaa are losing them.

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[OBC]

Mike Perirea,former NFL VP of Officiating and current Fox Sports Analyst, weighs in with his opinion regarding this hit.

http://ow.ly/pCRa5

[PAllen]

Both, it wasnt illegal and a hit is a hit between the whistles as far as I am concerned. Its BS to try and say some hits are OK and others are not. I dont care about the pussy rule or how its written the original question was "Does this hit warrent a player being kicked out of a game" I said no because it doesnt.

Now if the question from the OP was "Under the new pussy rules written by the PC crowd and safety Nazis everywhere, would this hit be considered illegal and the player should be kicked out of the game?
My answer would have been different, but I answered the question posed.



I now recuse myself from this thread because I am a man and I dont deal with shades of gray.

So in tackling your player, I grab his face mask, lift him up by it to expose his throat, then begin choking him, before throwing his limp lifeless body to the turf, and that's OK with you because the hit was between the whistles. (And yeah, I'm that big a badass on the field :) )

[sharkeycox]

This hit happened during the 4Q of the South Dakota vs Missouri St game. The player was ejected and suspended for the first half of next weeks game. The head of MVFC officiating reviewed the film today and confirmed this was a flagrant helmet to helmet penalty and has upheld the ruling.

I am biased, what are your thoughts?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcdQuwVyNuc


Yup, he lowered his helmet and launched.